PT 3: J. COLE USING JAY-Z LINE FROM TAKEOVER..IS IT CONSIDERED BITING??? VLAD & THE FELLAS DEBATE

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[@Mathhoffa]

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[@LOYALE302]

No different from Jay-Z doing the same thing to Biggie.

[@moballardful]

Exactly. That's where I'm like why are they acting like the protege of Jay himself is somehow in the wrong for doing the same thing he did lol.

[@kennethshelton9807]

They just told yall why he did it plus he got flow yall need to stop

[@joojoobaw]

lmao I was gonna say Jay is notorious for “paying homage” to other artists lines. The only one worse maybe is Master P with the amount of times he started rhymes like “like 2pac said…” and then just directly quote a pac song 😂

[@kennethshelton9807]

@joojoobaw so he didn't have songs without other ppl lines in it I can name a bunch yall just talking about 5 or 6 songs.

[@shakstone90z]

🎯

[@Geo_Storm]

Vlads agents guarding the door is wild 😂😂😂

[@Gankzta]

Vlad thinks his the president 😂

[@Fiendy]

@@Gankztayou know you paranoid for your life when you have security guarding you like that.

[@Gankzta]

@@FiendyNo one really cares if he has money, he fears for his life because of his mouth.

[@gmasonmusic]

LMAO! Maybe he's waiting for a cut hahaha!

[@ChillSun-Music]

😂Hilarious

[@OmarScruggs]

I hope Math sees this. In 2006 MTV had a show called "The Shop" where they interviewed rappers/actors in a babershop. Math you copied that. So how can you call someone else out. This is a fact. I watched that show in 2006 🤷🏿‍♂️

[@gregoryrashton803]

I thought about that too when I heard him talking about that. His podcast is not original. It’s just more popular. The Shop was ahead of its time. I loved that show. Glad someone acknowledged it. Salute bro

[@MA-qg5ju]

Can’t talk to Jay Z fans smh they all think they’re billionaires too with Jigga 🤨😂

[@Jawnwickk]

“Jigga”? You’re an old school person for sure. 🫡😂

[@barryjohnson4126]

🎯

[@Redman-hh9ic]

💯

[@I_Am_Vendetta_of_PcP]

Jay made a career from using BIG lines

[@stephenjones4013]

Cam destroy Jay by making that clear

[@KtotheG]

It's still biting if you don't mention the name because then new fans who never heard the original will think it's yours. That has happened a lot as Millennials and GenZers got into hip hop and thought an artist spit something original. One example is J. Cole: "Don't save her... she don't wanna be saved." Project Pat and E-40 said that first, but a lot of new fans thought Cole came up with it. Another one is not really hip hop, but Chris Brown when he said, "Deez hoze ain't loyal." He got that from a reverend preaching a sermon. Nas has also mentioned a lot of lines that came from blaxploitation movies and African proverbs. And people be quoting these lines like they're really his. The most famous example is "I never sleep because sleep is the cousin of death." That's from an African proverb.

[@sexytk9831]

Yo! I LOVE the return of the original intro. That ish is a classic.

[@isaidwhatisaid5369]

LMAO!!!

[@215proverb]

This ain't the original... That one was a banger!

[@hlmcclain2]

Vlad knows how music works... Vlad knows how much money Shannon Sharpe made off his Katt Williams interview... Vlad knows ALL better than any of us in our Culture... SMH

[@Dre.2397]

Don’t forget when jay z will always bite biggies rhymes that’s why nas called him out on Ether saying “how many times biggie rhymes gonna come out your fat lips” 😂💯

[@adove2a]

Nas also used Biggie lines too tho! It's okay when the song and line is popularly known. it's not biting. It's biting when you take someone's line and acts like it was your own that no one knows Because it's not big.

[@BryanKalloo]

That's what they're talking about

[@imsofocused4678]

​@@adove2aWhen did Nas use Biggie's lies?

[@joshkat1765]

​@@imsofocused4678.do you even listen to nas music? Not only did he 'bite' Biggie , he did the same shit he called hov out for with rakim's lines lol

[@KtotheG]

​@@joshkat1765The song and the lines, please

[@OmarScruggs]

Whitney Houston biggest song. "Will Always Love You" is a remake of Dolly Parton song

[@WOUNDSOFPASSION]

We're talking hip hop. Not pop. You are OBVIOUSLY not hip hop.

[@EscoRich36]

Glad tryna tell us bout hip hop is crazy

[@KtotheG]

Is Vlad not hip hop, though?

[@EscoRich36]

@@KtotheGhe was tryna debate biting and showing homage but he not that inclined now he is hip hop but cmon now

[@KtotheG]

@@EscoRich36 I'm in the biting camp. It's only paying homage if you give credit. If you leave the line out there and don't say the name of the original artist, then it's biting.

[@EscoRich36]

@@KtotheGI agree I think with some artist it’s homage and no need to shout out who u got it from because it’s evident you’re paying homage but if you just using ppl lines and flows (Drake with Xxx) then it’s biting for sure

[@Jake-ei1qq]

Math acting like he’s the first person to interview rappers😂

[@215proverb]

That's not what he's saying

[@jefferykincey3907]

That was a stupid take by Math Smh

[@jeffreyrice4242]

Barber shop settings for conversations have been around forever....Ice Cube made movies on that premise years ago...Lebron has been doing this same exact set up for years too... how come when Math does it, it's " him and Lebron " but if anyone else does it, it's being unoriginal? 😂 makes no sense

[@Jake-ei1qq]

@@jeffreyrice4242 facts😂

[@majorant102]

Salute my brother 🙏🏾 💯

[@ThurroAlexander]

Big Pun did the same thing in 'Twinz' when he remade 'Deep Cover' and both songs go hard 💯💯💯

[@echad6259]

Good vid

[@h2g9]

lol why is Ken Starrrz there? We just filling in seats huh

[@emmanueltanner9709]

Salute to Math for bringing the OG intro back💪🏽

[@Thatiswild911]

Vlad don't do interviews. He does interrogations disguised as interviews

[@SoloDolo01]

that’s difference with joe rogan platform and even club shay shay. is that they just chopped it up on some cool regular ish. vlad does these fill in the blank type of interviews and I can tell it rubs his guest the wrong way.

[@elliot2177]

Biting is when you take a line and try to profit off of without your own skills. What Cole did was paying homage because he didn't say that line to profit off of it.The difference is if one does not have their own skill set and not established as an artist and take a whole song and try to blow up or prioritize off of it, one could argue that they are "biting". Now, if an established M.C. who is battle-tested and is already established like a Jay z at the time uses said line to pay homage and not further his career as a gimmick, one could argue it is paying homage. It comes down to if said person has a style,image,delivery,flow, etc off their own or not or are they just trying to live off another's wave.

[@seanfraser8456]

@elliot2167 biting has nothing to do with making a profit

[@lespodcastsdeberrak]

I like before i watch

[@blackwealthpower7877]

Rappers bite/borrow, but it’s only bad when Jay does it 😂😂😂

[@SziontificMystic]

stay patient Math! 1love. many are being tested, but trust! 1love

[@BruceJohnson-om5kl]

Stop giving this dude say in anything. He's not Hip Hop, he in it for discourse and to start drama. He has no idea what is the definition of Biting is. Stop asking this dude for his opinion.

[@ohJordiano]

Vlad be talking like he's really bout this culture , yr just another white guy in America tryna Pimp the Culture. It's jaded at this point , but i get it ,it's all business

[@MrShallens]

Sounds like he knows a lot about hip hop, past and present.

[@kbmicheaux]

I absolutely agree 👍🏽

[@JoeNeely]

​@@MrShallenshe don't know shit and people like you who think he does,also don't know shit. He's wrong on 90% of his interviews. True vulture. Foh

[@iogpurge]

Vlad is a staple of hip hop lol wym

[@mzuveleyeni6945]

12:12 "I think it gets muddy..." ayooooo that was crazy!

[@sundocdouglas]

Vlad said he stole his format from 60 minutes… so he can’t be mad if another person steals his style and run with it.

[@yoursportsnow9729]

Did he say he was mad? He was the one who said you can't copyright formats, it's almost like you ignored him saying that and act like he was complaining. Smh

[@sundocdouglas]

@@yoursportsnow9729 maybe you misunderstood me. I’m saying Vlad isn’t mad that other people stole his style, because he admitted he stole his style. I wasn’t saying he’s complaining.

[@augustinerubio2004]

Vlad really went into a Barbershop rocking bangs

[@donfuego5716]

Finally the old OG intro is back ....somewhat but still

[@fallinstr2098]

Funny Marco is not the first person to do awkward interviews. Zach Galifiankas had Between Two Ferns and Eric Andre had his own show. This is no diss to Marko because he clearly introduced that type of show to a new generation of people. And pulled in fans who were never interested in that style before… He’s been so successful at drawing new people into that type of show they think he invented it… and there’s no doubt he deserves his flowers… I’m js.

[@TheJoseGarcia325]

Thank you bro i like funny marcos shows but those who do know actually know he didnt invent that concept but he elevated it but yea i dont like folks giving him too much credit dont get me wrong he deserves his flowers like u said but i feel folks only chatting cuz they dont like bobbis version 🤦🏾🤦🏾 thats like giving jay z credit for a biggie bar he used hut didnt invent 🤦🏾🤦🏾

[@Theycallmeshemp]

People forget that Drake bit from Dead Prez with that "one thing bout music when it hit you feel no pain" A song about corny rappers it's kind of ironic

[@moballardful]

Dam I never looked at it that way lol. Super ironic.

[@truthman6550]

That line is from Bob Marley song called "Trench Town Rock"

[@roaringsun4743]

The Wailers for the win!!

[@moballardful]

@@roaringsun4743 was he rapping it in the same cadence though?

[@andremiller1566]

Definitely a Bob Marley lyric used by many. African Herbman album. Front to back classic.

[@rikers263]

I didnt know you got a credit for a line.

[@OmarScruggs]

Crazy how Nas started as the first rapper to use multiple producers on an album then ended his career the original rap way of only using one producer. He did a rap career in reverse

[@TheEdub1]

Actually Nas didn't break that mold it was really Big Daddy Kane - It's A Big Daddy Thing in 1989. He was the first to use those different top producers check the credits - Marley Marl, Prince Paul, Easy Mo Bee, Teddy Riley, and Kane himself all produced on that album.

[@BProof]

Biting from the GOAT Biter. Learned it from you, Dad!

[@BMusic-bm8qu]

It kind of is a grey line is a good topic n convo that can have many answers

[@selftalkwithsal4229]

WP are way to comfortable in the house of Hip Hop, they are all GUEST✊🏿

[@Fiddyscent]

“YO China Mac… This is how you interview Vlad”

[@staircaseradio6284]

Biting is copying someone’s style more so than saying the same lyrics or using the same beat .. for instance in the past 10-12 years, producers have been biting “Lex Luger”, and Metro… rappers have been biting weezy , future and most Chicago rappers .. it’s the style that’s being duplicated.. paying homage is something different.

[@TheEdub1]

No it's bitin' not paying homage. This shit has been the rule from day 1. What do u think a sucka mc is!

[@ayewun22]

You do not know hip hop if you call that line “biting”

[@staircaseradio6284]

@@TheEdub1 let me be clear .. is saying someone’s words or using their beat considered biting ? YES .. but we all can tell who’s doing it to pay homage and who’s not .. the point I was making was .. from the beginning biting ALSO had a lot to do with copying someone’s style.. for example , we accused shyne for biting Biggie .. I remember Dana Dane being accused of biting slick Rick, but it wasn’t lyrics being bitten, it was the style and cadence.. I am a hip hop historian born and raised in the south BX 1978 .. I know exactly what I’m talking about.

[@staircaseradio6284]

@@ayewun22 let me be clear .. is saying someone’s words or using their beat considered biting ? YES .. but we all can tell who’s doing it to pay homage and who’s not .. the point I was making was .. from the beginning biting ALSO had a lot to do with copying someone’s style.. for example , we accused shyne for biting Biggie .. I remember Dana Dane being accused of biting slick Rick, but it wasn’t lyrics being bitten, it was the style and cadence.. I am a hip hop historian born and raised in the south BX 1978 .. I know exactly what I’m talking about.

[@TheEdub1]

@@staircaseradio6284 No doubt

[@BL-zw5oi]

Vlad thinks he knows. But he really doesn’t know 🤣🤣🤣

[@KingGreen78]

But hes right,they're trying to change the definition to its only biting if the artist are not associated, but if they're friends it's homage

[@barryjohnson4126]

I don’t like vlad at all but he’s absolutely right about the business.

[@barryjohnson4126]

Biting a battle bar is kind of wild tho

[@00darkurza00]

In hip hop, the difference between bitting and Homage is if you like the artist or not.

[@TosereOjeme]

Is that Vlad’s security standing over there

[@user-SubvurzIV]

It's Vlad's stylist formulating an exit strategy.

[@REALtuneOFtheDAY]

@@user-SubvurzIV HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

[@barryjohnson4126]

Biting a battle bar from an artist is a little different than sampling or saying rhymes an artist said already. Biting battle lines is wild.

[@BonafideBonez91]

Before Hoffa Show MTV Had A Show Similar To This Show Back In The Day . Jadakiss And Tony Yayo Were The First Guest On It. I Forgot The Name Of The Show

[@henryadjei8449]

Dope chanell ,happy the vultures left

[@KyleSchuett]

Who is the dude in the back just staring at the door?😂

[@jesussinaloa9300]

Vlads security

[@jaywashington3363]

Dame be roasting vlad on her about biting lol if he was there

[@donniedraco4310]

Vlad is right, Math and co are so close minded. These rules are the foundation but when you get to a level of mastery of the art form you can break the rules. It applies to every industry and situation.

[@donniedraco4310]

for example the 3 act structure is the foundation for movies, after a while you will have artists that put their own twist to the rule or down right break it.

[@jesussinaloa9300]

Exactly. Art is not like math. With math there is a universal formula and answers everyone agrees upon. With art, opinions are all subjective depending on who you ask and if they are a fan of that artist or not. As rap evolved, people got more lenient with what they considered biting. I would take it a step further and say biting was always apart of hip hip. Dana Dane copied Slick Rick's accent and flow but got a pass because they was in the same crew. Jayz use to the "iggity" flow that Das Efx made popular. Whenever an idea is out thats successful...people will always copy it

[@donniedraco4310]

@@jesussinaloa9300 you just had to use the subject "math" as an example. I thought you were referring to Math Hoffa and Art of Dialogue LMAO

[@sstelevision6376]

Vlad saying something obvious lol. By definition if some people agree and some disagree about something there’s a gray area. Mec arguing for no reason just to be right for the sake of being right lol.

[@ez-duz-it]

I think I remember hearing Jay Z gives Biggie his credits in every song where he used one of his lines, and the percentage of royalties or publishing that Violetta Wallace has will benefit from that. Remind you Puff owns majority of Biggies publishing and royalties but he did do right by his mom by giving her something to keep bringing in revenue.

[@donniedraco4310]

is he giving back to every other artist he mentions, references, interpolates or is it just a Biggie thing?

[@user-kb3do9jp6s]

👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿💯💯💯💯💯

[@majorant102]

No more full interviews unless you're a member. Become an Expert Express member: bit.ly/JOINMATHHOFFATV

[@mr.cool-ice]

Don't matter, just don't bite it

[@reikotellis8287]

Vlad got them shooters posted 😅

[@Ripoyla1]

What about Jay Z using Dead Presidents or Drake using a lot of peoples lines and phrases?

[@ContactBrand]

Why is that dude just staring out the front door?

[@miralikhan1403]

It's called "interpolation." You have to pay for that.

[@each1teach1academy43]

Biting has more to do with someone’s style and persona not just a line or lyrics

[@sirjer73]

Didnt Run DMC remake Kurtis Blow HardTimes in 1984

[@dev-nw1ei]

Math Hoffa has plenty of battles where he did the same thing .. especially from biggie flipping lines or saying the exact same bars to fit his opponent

[@juice07x]

Star wasn’t acting softball questions on the radio. He paved the way from Vlad and others in hip hop. Star of course learned from Howard Stern.

[@STARZldnlyfe]

Mate you didn't event a barber shop

[@clydecollier542]

Vlad is 100% correct. You don't get publishing for 1 line or a couple lines. It was "BITING" UNTIL Jay-Z made it cool to pay homage!!!! I thought Math and his crew were a bit more knowledgeable about the culture!

[@jefferykincey3907]

Vlad is schooling them in their own genre of music.

[@310percentage]

J. Cole used "your arms are too short to box with god" from the song All Real by Pitchblack prod by DJ Premier 👀👀 Legendary song Edit: on his recent 7 Minute Drill that line was used just to let it be known. Kendrick is a short lil man compared to J Cole height though 😂

[@JohnSmith-nm4zd]

Jay wasn't biting Biggie's lyrics. He was paying homage.

[@arise2]

If lines are iconic references would be an homage, but I kinda feel it should be a bit obvious. You might use the same flow and cadence, use the same sample, put the original line spoken as an adlib to it or use it as a scratch in the hook, maybe a music video clip in your own video when the line is spoken. Shoutout in the cover lining, a lyric breakdown explaination posted at some point confirming it. Thats just respect when done tastefully. If done on the sly as a bite its a hiphop cardinal sin as far as I know hiphop history.

[@arise2]

And the less famous the original sources the more likely it'd be seen as a bite so the more obvious the homage would have to be imo

[@EscoRich36]

Biting is taking someone style like everybody took Carti style

[@EliteBlackSash]

Its not biting. Nobody called Nas a biter for repurposing Slick Rick for his diss. Or Biggie for flipping Snoop Dogg or KRS-One. It’s wild though that both Kendrick AND J Cole have been flipping JayZ disses throughout their subliminal war. Ether became a verb. But, JayZ being the slickest, his disses are still used as The Blueprint. Even in Battle Rap, people stiiiill flip Takeover. Even though Kendrick was flipping the other side disses. “I was gonna k*ll a couple rappers but they did it to themselves. Everybody's su*cidal, they don't even need my help.” He definitely got that from Jay-Z’s diss to The Game on, “Thank You.”

[@Donniewearstomford]

True

[@imsofocused4678]

Nas never copied Slick Rick's rhymes throughout his whole career. Jay used Biggies lines on every album since Volume 3 on up. Then he said that he was better than Big. That's nasty work.

[@KASLEX]

Vlad don’t understand. Saying a line that you know everyone knows is someone else's while paying homage is not biting. They knew exactly what they were doing. Cmon bro. 🤦‍♂️

[@shawndapolymath]

With all due respect Corey Rooney was the first to do a barbershop format show.

[@Taj-nn3ix]

There's no Grey area..Jay z a biter, bit jaz-o, Kane, biggie, young Chris, Kanye, Basquiat, list goes on

[@publishingpublishing]

Barbers do this shit everyday

[@WhoIsAmmo]

IS THIS NEW ?? VLAD SAID HE WAS NEVER DOING MEO AGAIN

[@LiLSCRIBE]

But on Vapors Snoop did NOT say this is a song by bizz....so how ya'll feel about that?

[@antoniodeltorro2448]

How do we praise Jay Z so much when we also have Nas, 50, DMX ,

[@pretzeltss]

This the 1st time I’m agreeing with vlad

[@ddaniels295]

A lot of rappers quote one another.

[@elliot2177]

Jay spat BIGs line to pay homage not to sell records. That is the big difference.Biting is when you use other lines to proftize your own image and sells.

[@TheEdub1]

Hell yeah it's bitin'. Its been that way from day 1 and we have too much of that sucka shit going on!

[@jesseramirez8748]

You made it a Hot Line...I made it a Hot Song.....🤷🏾‍♂️

[@kenyatta5ttconjohnsoentcr589]

Vlad:the I feel for you,;both tracks were written by prince,;the one remade on Chaka album is more up tempo & early hip hop influenced

[@e.zbabytv8574]

Dude Vlad doesn’t have good judgment. He’s really trying to say J Cole was biting and not just paying homage to

[@LOYALE302]

Right tho

[@rsb32491]

Drake bit off Project Pat and the whole rap game gave it a pass 😂

[@nickgoodlock263]

If everyone is gunna know the lyrics as soon as they hear it and the artist knows that then its obviously paying homage.

[@adriansuarez8245]

i’m really starting to think Vlad doesn’t know 💩if you look at the credits the lines that JAY-Z borrowed from biggie it says Big‘s government name on the song credit so . I’m not the sharpest knife in the drawer the last time I checked if you are in the credits, you wanna get some type of publish it no? 7:00

[@greendro6410]

I won't say it's necessarily biting maybe it's paying homage 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@OrganicTrap]

No one on the face of the Earth thinks Jcole is biting jay z. As much as Vlad makes off the culture he really doesn’t understand it

[@youngcnyce]

Jay Z is top tier when it comes to biting from other people.

[@themediablitz]

Man-bangs is nasty work Vlad.

[@STACTV]

You can’t use another man’s concept in a diss track

[@kharrington5268]

Hov always paid BIG homage but they still call him a biter. I don't call it bitin but alot of haters do

[@ETERNALXGAMEPLAY]

YES even as a call back In a moment where u supposed to dis you don’t start using someone else line No In that moment u are supposed to create your own moment Nas created either the biggest dis track in history to a man that was at the height of his career and humbled him By creating his own moment

[@delcoplaza]

I don't think it's paying homage when you remake someone's beat and sell it to kids who don't get the original reference.

[@meladgoat]

other than mecca, i don't know any of these other co-horts, if they are even co-hosts. Not a good look for math

[@rgalv3]

Bigga barely spoke, Champ asked dumb questions, Esso was full of himself and Hynekan was ehh. He’s not missing much

[@archieizhellboye]

tell dat man stay outta that "biting vs paying homage" convo... he has no place, end of story

[@conversationswithzo]

Bobbi gave Marco 25k in cash too

[@cleyperrier]

Barbershop the movie

[@FireandIce0386]

I think that it was easier for Snoop to pay homage first because Slick Rick was from the previous hiphop generation. It felt like shouting out an elder and that what you do then..

[@elp3035]

Jay was getting called out for biting before Nas called him out on it. It was just big either. Also, biggie name ain’t no where in the writing credits to get paid off of