Pumpion Pie from 1670

[@TastingHistory]

What's your favorite Thanksgiving dish? I'm adding this one to my yearly repertoire.

[@sheenachristina2385]

Gotta be Pumpkin pie, well pretty much any of the sweet foods served that day.

[@GiselleMF]

The turkey. I'm part cat, so obligate carnivore. *RAWR*

[@Azaghal1988]

Not in a country with big Thanksgiving, so i'll give a simple but delicious autumn dish.The Potato, Turnip, Pork pottage my Dad used to make when i was a kid. It's a great dish to warm the belly, and tastes good for days. Propably not to different to what people ate here a few hundred years ago, except for the potato ;)

[@thethorpius2289]

Candied yams

[@alemen402]

At least for my family we’d usually make tamales, pasteles, or mole. I personally like to mix thing up by preparing duck or pork and especially incorporate chestnuts whenever they start to become available

[@terminator572]

It baffles me just how professionally made this show is. It legit feels like a high end cable TV segment, everything is incredibly well made and neat, you would think he has a whole ass crew behind cameras.

[@KetchupwithMaxandJose]

Just me and the two cats

[@JohnSmith-ch9sm]

@@KetchupwithMaxandJose I think he was trying to say that you put the cats to work on the production.

[@sheenachristina2385]

@@KetchupwithMaxandJose you are awesome! Everyone needs a Jose!

[@KetchupwithMaxandJose]

@@JohnSmith-ch9sm yes, they need to earn their keep! With the occasional Cat Tax

[@terminator572]

@@KetchupwithMaxandJose based fiance

[@tysonq7131]

When I need to relax I watch your show till it be enough

[@Zeverinsen]

Me too. And "enough" is usually when I fall asleep in the middle of the night.

[@FilbieTron]

Glad I’m not alone in my habits 🤪🤪

[@Christineeve]

Facts.

[@angelapiccolella1491]

Same!!! I have severe anxiety and when I feel a panic attack coming I'll usually put on the Tasting History playlist.

[@dididahye3586]

😂 speakn the truth

[@MadameRaven1]

I swear you have one of the most professional channels on KZbin. This could so easily be a tv show on PBS.

[@TastingHistory]

Thank you Madame

[@desertwaterdemon]

And Max is ADORABLE!

[@d.r.7396]

I’m obsessed with his channel. I don’t miss a single episode!

[@d.r.7396]

@@TastingHistoryEvery episode is fire!

[@ababyharpseal6534]

“What herbs do you use for this pie?” “Whatever you want.” “Okay, how long do I fry it for?” “Till it be enough.”

[@namedrop721]

Aka ‘cooking with mom’

[@KoltiraMemeweaver]

This is me while cooking something off the top of my head lol.

[@Luubelaar]

@@namedrop721 or "cooking with grandma". I tried so hard to record the recipe for my grandmother's scones but the recipe was in her head and she just 'eyeballed' everything.

[@SlavicCelery]

Honestly, most of the "yee olde" recipes make sense when taught in that manner. It's cooked/fried/baked/braised until it's done... why do any more?

[@SlavicCelery]

@@Luubelaar I got a family recipe that include making the dough until "it feels like an earlobe". Surprisingly that's a darned good measuring technique.

[@ellispedersen4192]

His consistency in having a pokemon plush relevant to his recipes is one of the most charming things i've ever seen

[@KetchupwithMaxandJose]

We r going to run out eventually 😭

[@thormag]

@@KetchupwithMaxandJose I mean, there's still like over 800 Pokémon you guys haven't used yet.

[@KetchupwithMaxandJose]

@@thormag aye and I’ll double dip. There’s so many different pikachu ;)

[@marthahawkinson-michau9611]

The biggest question for me is how many Pokémon plushies does Max own?

[@KetchupwithMaxandJose]

@@marthahawkinson-michau9611 we have about 250ish!

[@deborahrose5369]

I made this pie yesterday. I already had baked the pumpkin so I melted butter and added 1/4 tsp of all the herbs (I even had marjoram). I sautéed the baked pumpkin in that mixture. I didn't have currants so I used raisins and cranberries. I didn't need to sweeten the cranberries first. The pie was really good, kind of like mince meat pie. And today it tastes even better. I heated it up and melted butter on top. Hannah Wolley would be amazed to learn that we are still making her recipe. And tucking in! Thank you, Max. I really like your channel.

[@Daughn2]

Was it wonderful?

[@AlpenTree]

Did you eat this for dessert or as a side vegetable dish?

[@Pip8448]

@@AlpenTree It's mostly fruit. So it's probably a dessert. As most pies are. :)

[@AlpenTree]

@@Pip8448 I want to make this pie too!!!

[@vzmkitty]

Would this be good with ice cream or whipped cream?

[@Zzeppna]

This has better research, production quality and charm than most cooking shows on tv

[@OperaJH]

Hear! Hear!

[@dreamcastH]

Yeah, I get bored fast but mixing food with history does a good job of keeping me interested. That explanation of the origin of the food and the culture is so much better than some story about Maw maw baking her famous pie every thanks giving.

[@TheRealFlenuan]

*all

[@Luubelaar]

Agreed.

[@Krisfit138]

As someone with a history degree after culinary school, you're living the life I wish I had.

[@TastingHistory]

Well maybe you can come do an episode 😁

[@A-I_Hits]

@@TastingHistory [Chris Hanson] Why don't you have a seat right here?

[@Krisfit138]

@@TastingHistory Oh, man, I'd love to just sit off to the side with a drink and just excitedly cheer you on! Just tipsily yelling "Yes!"

[@catsteffen]

Me too! I love the history of food!

[@DMWatchesYoutube]

**Shia LaBeouf meme**

[@RayDrouillard]

... put her in a pumpkin shell, and there he kept her very well. When I was a kid, probably around the early 1970s, we got a lot of our food from our garden. The refuse would end up in our compost pile. Sometimes, the seeds of last year's plants would sprout. One year, we got a bunch of (cross breed) squash type plants. Of course, we let them grow -- if for curiosity's sake, if nothing else. One vine yielded small pumpkins. The difference is that they had shells. That isn't surprising, since gourds, also in the squash family, have shells. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the traditional pumpkins from the recipe that you made had shells. That would have made paring them even more difficult. It would also have made jack-o-lanterns more difficult to carve. My great grandma (born 1897) told me that they would often have to use an ax to open their Hubbard squash. I wonder if there are any heirloom breeds of squash or pumpkin that still have their shells. It would be interesting to grow them just for the historical perspective. If you want to use a pumpkin for a serving dish, getting one with a shell would be a good idea.

[@soniasonia2518]

I learned that a good way to work with pumpkins was to court the top off, scoop out the seeds and stuff then put upside down in the oven to bake. The outside forms a shell. Sometimes when I am done making the pumpkin item I put it back into the pumpkin skin. This also works for squashes. Pretty displays for eating's at Thanksgiving. I feel like Hannah. No idea how long to bake for. When it's soft inside there will be some carmelizing around the edges and a slight sag with a lovely smell. You can flip and test with a fork to make sure it goes through. Careful when you flip it. It is steaming itself and like molten lava on the inside. Best to use cooking cloths to handle. Maybe 45 minutes? It takes so long, I adjust the temperature for other items inside the oven. 350-450 the higher the temp the more likely you may burn the outside if you want to keep it pretty for display. Trust your gut, don't check it too often. Overcook if you need to.

[@inchh.3798]

I've composted a pumpkin before. It was so cool!

[@pacearrow4620]

Seminole pumpkin have "shells" they grow well in the south. They may grow in other parts too, not sure

[@trickvro]

Me, frying my pumpkin slices, trying my best: The ghost of Hannah Wolley: "👻 It be enough! 👻"

[@vtr0104]

=))))) Dammit man, I'm dyin' here

[@simonederobert1612]

Just a safety note: The winter squashes (pompion, butternut, acorn, etc) are incredibly slick after peeling/paring. Therefore, the safest and easiest way, I have found, is to make the major cuts of the fruit like halving or quartering, before peeling. It is much easier - and safer - to peel/pare into thin slices after the potentially finger-losing cutting is done.

[@wingy200]

I vote Rita for MVP.

[@milomhoek]

was about to say that!

[@manonvernon8646]

Tacking onto this, I feel the safest way to cut a pumpkin is to first cut off a little of the bottom to stabilise it so it isn't rocking everywhere. Then, insert the knife into the top of the pumpkin and carefully cut a quarter or 8th slice, depending on the size of the pumpkin. KEEP YOUR HANDS AWAY FROM THE BLADE. Then when you have two quarters and a half, you can turn the half onto its flat side for stability and slice the pumpkin once or twice more. THEN peel.

[@lisacastano1064]

@@manonvernon8646 even easier is to cut it into segments so much easier to peel

[@PolySammo]

I agree with that. The wait at the ER for stitches is quite long so better to cut it first

[@patton303]

“Til’ it be enough”. That’s going to be my new stock answer for everything.

[@johncallahanjr9743]

This is a pie you MUST make for this Thanksgiving. My wife had a difficult time peeling the pumpkin, but the rest came together swimmingly. It doesn’t look like anything you want to eat, but once you taste it you cannot stop eating it. Store it in the fridge, but place your slice in the microwave for about 30 seconds, because it tastes great warm!

[@maskcollector6949]

Cut it into big chunks and then boil it, it's very difficult to peel otherwise. The skin peels off easy after it's boiled. Wish I looked it up before I did it, too.

[@Allronix]

Yup. Made this for Thanksgiving and another one for Yule. The second round, used 3 apples (2 sharp one sweet) instead of 2, added spices (like ginger, nutmeg, cloves) and a 1/2 tsp of salt, and cut out the last two tablespoons of butter. Tastes great warmed up with a glass of the leftover sherry

[@fionaclaphamhoward5876]

Here in New Zealand we eat pumpkin a lot, mostly as a savoury vegetable, baked in the oven with a roast, for example, or pumpkin soup is very popular. It's a byotch to peel, but we tend to cut the whole pumpkin into quarters or smaller chunks first, then use a knife to slice off the skin. You have a choice of 3 flat edges to rest the chunk on and can turn it around to slice off the skin from different angles.

[@fazdoll]

Use an Oxo serrated peeler. Once I tried a serrated peeler I never went back to flat ones.

[@phoebedoesit4168]

If you throw the pumpkin in the oven for 10 minutes at 350f it peels and cuts like a potato

[@Julessa]

“it’s a bit of a pain in the pumpion” 😂 I actually burst out laughing.

[@TastingHistory]

🤣 which makes me happy

[@PatriciaPerkowski]

And Max....this is yet another tee-shirt sentiment!!!!

[@PutoMedicoBrujo]

@@PatriciaPerkowski and thats the tea

[@PutoMedicoBrujo]

but seriusly DUDE please use your puntastic powers of dad jokes for merch

[@PatriciaPerkowski]

@@PutoMedicoBrujo YES!!!! Preach

[@janaburritt6939]

I really love this recipe I just made it and oh my husband just went crazy I changed it a little bit I added brown sugar and instead of sugar and instead of using pumpkin I use butternut squash. Mixed it all together. Our taste buds are still dancing. He loved the apple in it.

[@tinydancer7426]

Oh, that must have been yummy with the butternut squash. I prefer to make my "pumpkin" pie with either freshly baked pumpkin or, more often, with butternut squash. If I use a pumpkin, I prefer to use a cheese pumpkin or a Cinderella pumpkin. I guess I am going to have to try this version with the apple layer. Hey, has anyone out there to read this made an apple that requires that a custard be poured over the apples before baking? I saw a recipe for it a long time ago (acutally cut it out of the magazine) but I lost it.

[@mrdanforth3744]

Brown sugar is probably more period correct. In those days the sugar was most likely Muscovado or some kind of brown sugar, I don't know if white sugar was even available yet but it was more expensive and not as common until the mid 19th century.

[@emilyrosenzweig9946]

Oooh great idea I'm going to try it your way!

[@vzmkitty]

Would you put ice cream or whipped cream on top?

[@MattDocMartin]

Seriously, this guy is fantastic.

[@TastingHistory]

😁 thank you

[@lieutenantoin929]

@@TastingHistory quickest subscribe ever.

[@tedarcher9120]

He's taken :(

[@MattDocMartin]

@@tedarcher9120 My wife has nothing to fear.

[@katherineklevenow1808]

@@TastingHistory yes, you are, I couldn't subscribe fast enough

[@CaptIronfoundersson]

"I'd like to do an episode on..." "Yes!"

[@nastaishia]

Exactly what I was thinking!

[@NinePillar]

I came for the history lesson and funny new (old?) way to say 'pumpkin' and stayed out of curiosity marrying apples with squash. The wife and I were hesitant to try this but we just took our first bites minutes ago and egads, eyes alight! What an absolute lordly pie! It's already become our new holiday tradition to impress the peons, er...friends with. A thousands thanks from our family! Cheers!

[@scaper8]

I, for one, would love to see an episode on _Le Cuisinier François._

[@ptaylor4923]

I for two!

[@melissacreamer8288]

I third that

[@tomf3150]

I fourth this.

[@TastingHistory]

Then I will do it 😁

[@rheinhartsilvento2576]

@@TastingHistory Fifth here! Yay Cuisinier François 🤗🍖🍲🥗

[@liljohnnotbigjohn]

Representing a long line of Woolleys (we added the "o" because it's important to carry a spare), it is completely consistent that we would be angrily shoving apples beneath the pumpkin mixture becasue we forgot the damn things and are completely confident that everyone else will also.

[@TastingHistory]

🤣 there are many places on the internet who add that extra O to her name.

[@carriel3054]

I grew up with a Woolley, and I *STILL* remember when she learned to spell her last name because it became something of a cheer. "Double YOU, Double OH, Double EL, E Y!" :D

[@KickyFut]

@@carriel3054 That is so ridiculously cute I'm getting a lil bit queasy...😅

[@thecook8964]

Come from a small town called Sedro-Woolley in Washington state Dude back in the day wanted to call it Bug Washington, but his wife wouldn't let him. Spelled cedro wrong, Spanish for cedar, & incorporated with Woolley, his name...

[@kushogade5332]

So, I decided to make this pie. My attempt tasted good, but heres what I can contribute from the experience to make it more "taste pleasant", and some tips in general: 1. I recommend using something other than raisins, such as rehydrated apricots or plums, since currants and raisins dont have too much of a taste contrast. 2. Use more than 1 layer of green apple. Since the buttery pumpkin and raisin/currant mixture doesnt have as much sweetness as youd think, the apple slices are an excellent tart/sweet pairing that cut through nicely. Depending on how much of the mix you have, dont be afraid to make muliple layers of pumpkin and apple. 3. If you have a mandoline, use it. It makes cutting the pumpkin SO much easier. 4. Depending on the composition of the filling, your cooked pie might not set fully. I made my own pie crust as well for a more rustic look. 5. I used Port instead of Sherry or Sack because thats all i had on hand. It came out well either way. And thats about it. I went out and got some whip cream topping for the ocasion and it is very tasty. Not bad for the recipies age. ♡

[@salviaprezzemolo2165]

Thank you for your comments. I want to try this pie, but I have wimpy wrists and the thought of taking a knife through a pumpkin is very intimidating to me. I was thinking I would first have to put a small pumpkin in either the microwave or the crock pot to get it at least soft enough to cut through. How did you use a mandolin? Did you first have to cut it in wedges?

[@kushogade5332]

@@salviaprezzemolo2165 I did exactly that. I cut it into more manageable slices, and ran them over the mandoline to make a sort of pumpkin "shavings". However, since it's been a couple years now, I think your idea of softening it before cutting it down would still work just beautifully.

[@salviaprezzemolo2165]

@@kushogade5332 Thank you!!! How did you find it on the sweetness scale - too sweet, not sweet enough, just right, could've used a tad more/less, ...? ♥

[@kushogade5332]

@@salviaprezzemolo2165 For my tastes, I found it not particularly sweet, but only because I have a major sweet tooth. You could certainly adjust the ratio of spices to sugar to compensate for a sweeter pie, but for my attempt at it, I went exactly as the video did to be as authentic as possible.

[@salviaprezzemolo2165]

@@kushogade5332 Thank you. I prefer things not too sweet, so per your assessment, it would be just right for me. I think I'm going to make it! Thanks for your input!

[@nfraehlich]

‘Fry it til it be enough’ basically sums up the descriptive abilities of historic recipe books 😂

[@TastingHistory]

Yup. Sp frustrating.

[@EricBarbman]

No, it describes the basic inabilities of people to cook in modern society. Domestic cooking knowledge in households has been vastly lost because it's not transmitted anymore from mother to daughter, which was the main chanel for food education, in favour or processed food consumption. Old cooking books didn't mention the time or heat needed because those things were obvious to most people, who were cooking 100% of their meals. The readers perfectly knew when "something was enough/a bit less/a bit more". They didn't need to be explained again and again the basics, just like they didn't need to be specified "in a pot", "with fire", "use a spoon etc.

[@esthermcafee5293]

Historic sewing/tailoring books are like that too. “Draft in the usual fashion” is not helpful, book!

[@nfraehlich]

@@EricBarbman I'm not looking to get into an argument, I would say that 'it describes the basic inability of modern people to cook in historic contexts'. There are plenty of people in the world who learn to cook without recipes, measurements, etc. but the social context is important and, even 150 years ago 'until it's done' could mean something totally different. If you and I both cooked an egg 'til it be enough' we would almost certainly come out with entirely different eggs because it's subjective. You're making a point, and I get your point. I was making a joke.

[@e.urbach7780]

It also speaks to the fact that there were no oven or food thermometers at the time when the recipe was written. How can you tell someone to cook something until it registers a certain internal temperature if they don't have the tools to measure the internal temperatures of food? Or oven temperatures? The same thing goes for the amounts of ingredients; if there are no standardized measuring cups or spoons, then medium-sized (smaller than about a quart) and smaller measurements have to be described differently, or the exact amount has to be variable and the recipe still has to work. Often, the amount of ingredients is totally dependent on the size of the pan that the dish will be cooked in, or how many people the dish is intended to feed. People say "you have to be so careful and exact when you are baking" but that's not really true prior to the 19th century; even then, it's really only French-style pastry (like puff paste) where that is necessary, because exact measurements and temperatures were not really possible to achieve earlier. Cooks in the past knew more about cooking than the average 21st century American does (although the pandemic and lockdowns may change that), but they also lived in closer communities of people who also had experience cooking. If there was anything about a recipe that a cook didn't understand, they had relatives, neighbors, and friends nearby, if not in the same house, that they could ask. Nobody lived absolutely alone unless they chose to be a hermit or something similar, and those groups of people were well-known to only cook and eat very simple things. These days, many people live alone and far away from family, have no experience in cooking, don't have friends who know how to cook, and don't know any of their neighbors; they are totally reliant on their own knowledge (or lack of it) and the internet when it comes to cooking anything, so the historic recipes don't contain nearly enough information for them to follow.

[@samijo7400]

Every time you're like "if you want to see a video on this just let me-" yes. Yes. The answer is always yes I'd love a video

[@alyssaperonto5047]

Discovered this just a couple months ago and was excited to try it for Thanksgiving today. It did not disappoint!!!!!!! It’s definitely a new staple. We love referring to it with it’s original name, ‘Pumpion Pie,’ also to help differentiate from the pumpkin (“custard”) pie. We saved it for dessert, but we all agreed that next year it will be served as a side dish, as it did not seem as sweet. Regardless, we love it! As we’re sitting around discussing it and asking questions, we came back to watch the video as a family for a a foodie history lesson. Thanks so much for your work on this channel!😃

[@chelseal8448]

Your show would make such a good Netflix series

[@Astralfirework]

Given the mercurial nature of Netflix, I’d say he’s far safer doing it this way.

[@incognito4102]

They could just take these vids and put it there! Better quality than many shows there....

[@AdmiralBonetoPick]

Better to be on KZbin. That way it's free.

[@TheCaptainSplatter]

@@AdmiralBonetoPick and has control.

[@DoYouSpeak]

"The writer has expelled over one hundred tapeworms in this manner." Me: Like...all at once?

[@JMGMorrigan]

More importantly....were they all from him?

[@Astralfirework]

Like a firework, only it’s just tapeworms exploding out of- You know what, I think I should just stop.

[@Meme-op8fu]

F in the chat for tapeworms

[@callmepotato]

I'm going to assume they came out in a row or line.

[@Astralfirework]

@@callmepotato bunch of tapeworms marching out in formation.

[@WWZenaDo]

Quick suggestion about peeling pumpkins - I remove seeds and slice the pumpkin into large segments, then bake it at around 325 degrees long enough to make the peel easy to remove.

[@Thea_MojaveOutliersWhipmakers]

Brilliant! Thank you!

[@Starzoh]

Wow this channel educates on everything! From making Shakespeare's farts to how to get rid of parasites

[@TastingHistory]

All useful information

[@loganator326]

You know it's a tasty pie when he breaks composure and just rants about it lol

[@TastingHistory]

🤣

[@SciencewithHK]

True! And I trust him, because he tells us when he doesn't like something!

[@stephaniepollard7372]

Based on Logan’s and Stacey’s comments I’m definitely going to make this in the coming weeks. 🥧 😋

[@SciencewithHK]

@@stephaniepollard7372 I'm planning on this for Thanksgiving!

[@stephaniepollard7372]

@@SciencewithHK please share the results :)

[@sebastian122]

Made this this past weekend. As a dessert it was interesting. As a side with a pork tenderloin, it was BRILLIANT!

[@wolfwind9658]

You did not commit the sin of Christmas music and themes before Thanksgiving. For that you get a like and share.

[@TastingHistory]

🤣

[@ArdisMeade]

Don't tempt him. He still has time.

[@00muinamir]

It's 2020, time has no meaning anymore in quarantine! Normally Christmas before Thanksgiving would chap my hide too, but I'm willing to look the other way this year.

[@farmerboy916]

@@00muinamir Oh hell no. That would mean we'd just get 24/7/365 christmas which would drive me literally mad. I can _at most_ put up with it for a month before it gets on my nerves enough to make me constantly angry.

[@JoeAuerbach]

Re: Tapeworms I sincerely hope "the writer" has expelled over 100 tapeworms IN PATIENTS. otherwise, they have a SERIOUS food quality issue.

[@TastingHistory]

🤣

[@DahVoozel]

🐛🐛🐛🐛🐛🐛🐛🐛🐛🐛🐛🐛🐛🐛🐛🐛🐛🐛🐛🐛🐛🐛🐛🐛

[@WilliamSebren]

Glad to know my mind wasn't alone when it went there 😱

[@moosemaimer]

I saw a stat somewhere that something like 70% of all people worldwide have some kind of parasitic worm inside them, and that's nowadays. _Not_ being infected with worms is suspected of being the cause of a number of auto-immune disorders. Tenacious little bastards, they are.

[@Amy_the_Lizard]

No kidding! If one person expelled that many tapeworms, I'm pretty sure their intestines would be totally trashed!

[@loogatdisdood]

for whatever reason, the moment your eyes lit up after taking a bite brought a tear to my eye.

[@wintermute5974]

I made this today, and was shocked by how much everyone I served it to enjoyed it (a lot! One of them said it might be their new favorite pumpkin dish.) I was having a lot of doubts about it around the time I was mixing sugar into my herb and egg battered fried pumpion, but it all worked out in the end. Also pumpion is my favorite new (old) word. Some general ideas/tips from my experience with it: - Watch the pie for the first 20 minutes, some of the currants on mine started to burn at that temperature and I had to turn it down early. - The herb mix (especially the rosemary) works surprisingly well, and I'd recommend making it following the recipe the first time. But I think some nutmeg would not be amiss (but go light on it, the herbs are definitely supporting actors in this one), a little orange or lemon zest might also be nice. - I think dried apricots would really work in this, so you could swap out some or even all of the raisins or currants in it for dried apricots if you want some more variety (or just don't like raisins and currants). - I did two alternating layers of pumpion and apple instead of one of each, to try and get a more even distribution, which I think worked well. - If you have one you're comfortable using, a mandolin makes it much easier and faster to get thin, regular slices of pumpion. Makes the pretty tedious frying process go a little faster. - I think it was nicer served heated up again, so make sure you try it hot and cold and make up your own mind!

[@nunyabiznez6381]

Until you've had a real home made pumpkin pie (nothing out of a can) you've not had a pumpkin pie. What you buy in a store is nothing but over processed crap.

[@gaiabreeze]

I made this tonight, it was so difficult to prep the pumpkin I almost cried. And I think the mandolin may have worked more easily than sawing slices with a knife. I didn't have currents so I used sweetened dried cranberries with the raisins. Sounded like an authentic addition . Also I didn't have sherry so I used my best balsamic. It smells wonderful but I seriously doubt I could do that again.

[@rosaliemoon5905]

Thank you VERY, VERY MUCH for your comments.

[@stevenpeluso7670]

You really don't need currents, they are just small raisins, so add a bit more raisins instead.

[@dmk7321]

What I love most about all of these recipes is that they are so vague. I believe it’s because these women grew up cooking. They most likely would have been assisting and learning from the moment they were able to. Therefore they knew by look, smell and feel when something was ready or good. They didn’t need to be told how long to cook it. All they needed to be told was “till it be enough”. They knew when it “be enough” LOL.

[@Godwinpounds4333]

Hello how are you doing?

[@mrdanforth3744]

Another reason is they did not have any measuring devices. Ovens were fired with wood, they had no thermostat or thermometer, no standard measuring cups or spoon, not even a clock in the kitchen.

[@mysterymix2091]

I have waited over a year to make this recipe. And I am not disappointed, I will make this every year. Thank you Max!

[@LadySquall11]

“Who’s that Pokémon?” Looks behind Max “It’s Pumpkaboo!”

[@Warhammered]

I thought it was Pumpkaboobs. *smiles*

[@DarkMoonDroid]

@LadySquall11 YAY!

[@kair3440]

The '-BUT YOU'D NEED AN OVEN FOR THAT' line tho

[@marleee.2174]

That was a total burn (which can be said because he has an oven)

[@oneoneonefour]

I made this today as my first pie ever. I had enough flesh from just the one pumpkin to make two pies. Both turned out great. I gave some to my neighbors and will be giving the second pie to my sister's family tomorrow. Thanks Max!

[@Blazstabman90PWNZ]

If there isn't any nutmeg Jon Townsend isn't going to be happy

[@TastingHistory]

I’m definitely tempting his ire 🤣

[@Grapefruit_cosplay]

@@TastingHistory you guys need to do a collab when Covid is over 🥰🥧 im sure it would be nutmeg filled and delicious !

[@mistertaz94]

@@Grapefruit_cosplay they did one a couple months back and it was great

[@trenae77]

As to the oven issue, Max - I’m sure the pilgrims had the resources to make an oven 🤣

[@Grapefruit_cosplay]

@@mistertaz94 ah !!! How could I have missed that ! Could you give me a link ?

[@salemunderfire]

"if you would like to see that-" yes we would like to see it. always. just show us your old recipes you funky lil cook

[@holycanoli3615]

🤣 yes!

[@rebeccaboudreau7589]

Served this for thanksgiving and it was LOVED! Soaked currants in rum over night, added cinnamon and used cultured ghee instead of butter. Next time I’m going to add grated fresh ginger to pumpkin mix to add a zesty zing and see how we like it. Thank you!

[@Harpeia]

There's an oddly similar "old age" recipe here in the Balkans. Crust is different, and ingredients are arranged in layers rather than as a filling, but otherwise the treatment of pumpkin, lining every layer with apples and spices used are all the same. Looks like it'd taste nearly identical. Which is not really too weird considering that said ingredients are common at this time of season, but, nevertheless, I was surprised. Thank you for the video! Definitely gave me an idea on how to change things up once I grab some pumpkins.

[@mirandamom1346]

What is it called? I’d like to look for the recipe.

[@Harpeia]

@@mirandamom1346 the history of this region never allowed it to harness history and form a certain identity even through recipes, so there is no particular name for this aside of "pumpkin pie with apples" - "pita s bundevom i jabukama", and the recipe differs from village to village without anyone having the incentive to write down and unify the recipes. All you will hear from those making it is "I just do it as my mom did it", and the same saying goes through generations. I can however tell you that the village my late grandma is from passed on the recipe which is nearly exactly the same as what Max did here. The crust differs in not having butter and having yeast added in (so it's flour, water and yeast, salt to taste). The arrangement is as it follows: crust, apples, pumpkin, repeated twice. It doesn't seem to rise much from what I've noticed. Might be the kneading method. I've been doing the same recipe with the English crust (with butter) and the taste doesn't differ much but it's a bit easier to eat.

[@mirandamom1346]

@@Harpeia Fascinating! Ignore me if I’m being too inquisitive, but from which part of the Balkans does the pie originate?

[@Harpeia]

@@mirandamom1346 the Balkans are a unit with a shared history. A history that has majorly been erased due to the amount of occupation it suffered. The entirety of it shares heritage so you'll find the similar or even identical recipes from the far east of Romania to the far west of Slovenia. There is no way to pinpoint the exact place of origin as it is in younger countries that started history and went through less than a few wars that aimed to erase all heritage in order to easier assimilate.

[@austenhead5303]

@@Harpeia Do you make it with filo/phyllo dough as we do in the more southern regions of the Balkans? Drop dollops of pie filling between 4 or 5 thin sheets of filo dough and then roll it up into a loaf for baking? When it's just pumpkin (no apples) we call that tikvenik, but as you say add apples and the name becomes more of a description: sweet pita with whatever's in it.

[@__nobody__]

Slightly simpler way to prep the pumpkin: remove stem, cut in half, spoon out the seeds, quarter (you can lay it on the flat side for this), _then_ peel. (As soon as you peel it, the outside's rather slimy and it will be harder to handle, so do that last. Also it's easier to peel IMHO because the pieces are easier to grip than a ball-shaped object.)

[@melissajarvis4829]

That was my thought! Cut first, then peel. Otherwise, I really would be in danger of severely cutting/ losing a finger!

[@God4445]

i started watching while you had about 10k subs, and look at this now!! Congrats kind sir!

[@austenhead5303]

"Fry it till it be enough." Yeah. K. Why don't I just "take a pumpkin and make a pie" while I'm at it?

[@ReggieArford]

Well, it could mean, "enough pieces cooked, to make a pie". That's how I interpret it.

[@Smallpotato1965]

Heh! In 'The Forme of Curry' there is actually a recipe for 'Porpoise in broth' and it reads "make as you makest numbles of flesh with onions". Lol!

[@Ajehy]

Sounds like a late Technical on the Great British Bake-Off

[@quietone748]

"Make yourself a little Pacman"" *Waka-waka movements* "Then, once you're done playin with your food, go ahead and slice it up." I needed your kind of cooking instruction when I was a kid. :)

[@quietone748]

P.S. Yes, please do episodes on Scappi's book AND the first Thanksgiving. I live north of Plymouth and I'd love to see what you dig up :)

[@MymilanitalyBlogspot]

O M G this recipe is so good! The only adaptation I made to your adaptation was to bake the unpeeled pumpkin at a medium heat for two hours instead of risking my fingers peeling and cutting. I used 1T each of dried rosemary and parsley, no thyme cuz I didn't have any. No blind baking of the crust, just baked for 10 min at 220°C then for 60min at 150°. Thanks so much! I will most certainly make it, again.

[@WillowTreePottery]

I've followed my Danish grandmother's tradition of cooking an apple or two in with my pumpkin pie fill. It's always the pie that diappears most quickly at family get togethers.

[@blackoceancreativeuniverse]

"Throwing shade on dead cookbook writers"- one of the many value-added aspects of this edutaining channel.

[@borgcutus5780]

This is the second year that I'm making 1670 Pumpion Pie for Thanksgiving. I made it for both T-day and Christmas dinner last year, and it's so very good. My wife just loves it. She said to me last week "You're making pumpion pie for Thanksgiving, right???" So different, but so good. I used fresh rosemary, fresh thyme and fresh curley parsley for the herbs. I'm not a huge raisin person, so this year I substituted dried cherries to go along with the dried currants, so thinking that will be great. Used Granny Smith apples this year as well, and did a scratch butter crust. Very excited for tomorrow! Thanks Max!

[@macdjord]

1:38 - "I'm using rosemary, thyme, and parsley" - What, no sage~?

[@darthplagueis13]

'Tis not from Scarborough Fair then....

[@kellyramirez7465]

Then I shan't get my cambric shirt, water, or acre of land :c

[@marthahawkinson-michau9611]

Lol 😂

[@dominicgiglio-tos5982]

My GF asked me to help with our cookbook, I just sent her a playlist of this channel. Now I can enjoy Parthian chicken and pie every Fall. Thanks Max!

[@TastingHistory]

Sounds like a good fall meal to me

[@soniahargrove-l4i]

Hi Max! I love your show, but I thought that I would tell you there is a much easier way to cook a pie pumpkin. You can bake it in the oven on a piece of parchment paper, on a baking sheet. You just need to halve it, scoop out the seeds and scrape out the guts with a cookie scoop. Brush a little coconut oil on the inside of the pumpkin and place it flesh side down. Pierce the flesh a few times with a knife and roast it at 350 degrees for 45 to 50 minutes. You will know it is done when you can pierce the side of the pumpkin and it is soft. Let it cool. Then proceed to scrape the pumpkin out and purée it, either in a blender or in a food processor. Enjoy!! So much easier!!! Keep putting out these wonderful bits of history and we will keep watching!!!

[@AriKhuu]

The Pac-Man bit made me laugh - and I wasn’t planning on making any noise. The gal in the next stall sure was wondering if I was possessed. Oh well.

[@TastingHistory]

🤣

[@melissacreamer8288]

I laughed out loud too! Thankfully I'm the only one on the office

[@BRUXXUS]

😂

[@EricBarbman]

J'aimerais bien voir un episode sur "Le vrai cuisinier François", ce serait magnifique.

[@firenter]

Même!

[@1963pipo]

Moi aussi ! Merci d’avance.

[@aurevoiralex]

C'est une excellente idée, encore merci! :)

[@codybaio3765]

How did i miss this video for my favorite Desert, back on my birthday of all days! Another awesome video!!

[@victorg898]

Three of my favorite things: history, food and a smart handsome guy who can not only cook, but delve into the past and recreate ancient recipes. So fascinating! Excellent show, great production, wonderful technique, I love learning new things and the history of cooking opens a whole new world for me. Bravo Max Miller & company!

[@robertaalmerez999]

isn't he adorable!

[@rodfleck]

We got ours into the oven - had to substitute two handfuls of herbs with two tablespoons of Herbs d Provence and the sherry with spiced rum...but oh dang does it smell amazing

[@adreabrooks11]

Whoo! Good substitutions, friend! I'll have to try that next!

[@Tiger89Lilly]

Did it work well. I have plenty of dark rum but no sack and no fresh herbs

[@rodfleck]

@@Tiger89Lilly it did, it's so different from any thing I've ever had

[@Tiger89Lilly]

@@rodfleck I'm English I've never had pumpkin pie in the first place so I'm super excited to try this

[@wallamazoo01]

I really love it when a unknown recipe that is surrounded by so many questions turns out so good.

[@absintherraful]

How are you the only american person on the internet to give so much effort to pronouce every foreign word properly and also make a really good job? Love it!

[@TastingHistory]

I find it to be like a game 😁

[@rebeccawilkinson1846]

I just discovered your channel. And I have the same question about accents - where did you learn to do them so well? Are you a polyglot? Or just a musical genius? (It takes a good ear.)

[@michaelwalker4977]

Some things that made prep easier for me: Slice the pumpkin into wedges like a watermelon, with the width of the thickest part of the wedge being narrower than the opening in your vegetable peeler. This makes it a little easier to take the skin off, and easier to properly scrape the stringy pulp off the inside. Then slice the wedges into short little tiles (like you're slicing a banana to put in cereal) instead of long crescents; you're cooking them until they fall apart anyway, right? Put the eggs, herbs, and all the little pumpkin tiles in a big bowl and toss them like a salad to coat them, instead of laboriously dipping them one 6-inch-long slice at a time.

[@leroyjenkins4811]

If there’s one thing I’ve learned from this channel it’s that old cookbooks and recipes were vague in their instructions and measures of ingredients. I’m glad people like Max have interpreted these recipes for us. If I tried to make something from such vague instructions, everything would be an absolute mess. Being a cook or chef who was able to make delicious food in ancient times must have been the equivalent of being a wizard or alchemist or something! Today, everybody can make delicious food. Back then, not so much.

[@AserHapi]

After attempting to follow what my grandma does in the kitchen, I can attest everything is done by "feel", "how you'd like", and "until it's right". They used to learn by watching their mothers and mixing and matching basic techniques, so writing down "obvious" specifics felt unnecessary.

[@Jack-yf9bc]

17th century home ec: “wait what are we doing?” “Frying it till it be enough”

[@chiot888]

Pumpkin seeds for tape worms, this is good to know if I’m ever a survivor in the apocalypse. I might keep some seeds around in case the time ever comes

[@kirbyculp3449]

If you are a real 'prepper' then you will be saving a lot of different seeds.

[@WastedTalent-]

@@kirbyculp3449 Freedom Seeds!

[@somethinghippos]

Definitely one of those things that could prove surprisingly useful.

[@NewsfromtheGrove]

We made this pie this year! It was delicious!! thank you Max for all your hard work :)

[@sonjamcclain4897]

I wish you had been my history teacher growing up. I would have learned so much more.

[@Boom12]

I'll have a Venti Pumpion Spice Latte with extra apples on the side, and some nutmeg...please.

[@GiselleMF]

*Townsend approves*

[@mellie4174]

Most underrated comment!

[@SheriLynNut]

I’ll add that to my menu! Apple and pumpkin spice!

[@riav7467]

Nutmeg? Wrong channel, that's the dude in the waistcoat & apron, not the dude in just the apron 😂.

[@tammimacclellanheupel1517]

That would be SO much better than horrid Pumpkin Spice. Give the PS a rest already...I mean it's been out since, like, 2006? NO! 2003!!!

[@ellepalmer]

im obsessed with this video. so glad your channel exists

[@maryroberts9315]

If you are ever in Massachusetts, visit Plimoth Plantation in Plymouth. It is a reconstruction of the original settlement with costumed performers. They do an excellent series of historically accurate feasts during the holidays including a Victorian-era meal to commemorate Lincoln's creation of the national holiday. The meals from the time of the Pilgrims have that weird, to us, combination of savory herbs with sweet. Another interesting feature is that there is a reconstruction of a traditional Wampanoag village and the interpreters are members of the Wampanoag tribe, who are still a vibrant community in the area.

[@ms.chuckfu1088]

He said the pilgrims didn’t have ovens. Why wouldn’t they? I assumed domed clay outdoor ovens would have been a thing. Or at least a pit oven with hot stones. - I know nothing about the settlement. Apologies.

[@maryrhudy9250]

I made this pie, today. I'm a little weird, so I threw in some cranberries. EFFING AWESOME! Happy Thanksgiving!!!

[@zenkakuji3776]

The currants add a bit of tartness, so cranberries or even craisins are a perfect substitute. Thanks for sharing your tip!

[@Lauren.E.O]

Cranberries are a great addition! Also very seasonally appropriate when making the pie in November. Ty for the idea!

[@nunyabiznez6381]

That is not weird. In old cooking (pre 19th century) people used whatever fitting ingredient is at hand. I still do this today. I don't give people recipes for anything I make today because I never make anything the same way twice. Every time I just make it up as I go along. Less boring that way. The only exception is making things like cake batter or brownies or cookies because of how unforgiving the baking process can be. But pies are largely an exception. As long as you don't over bake you can pretty much toss in any sweet fruit and any number of seasonings and it will come out awesome. Grandma made hers with raisons and pears. You don't even need to add fruit but it better if you do. Cranberries will make it taste more fitting for Thanksgiving though and so your idea was a good one. I have used pineapple, peaches, plums, grapes (very mushy) and bananas along with red delicious apples. Apples and pears are a very good mix.

[@maryrhudy9250]

@@nunyabiznez6381 My friend, Sernobia McGee, calls it 'cooking in the spirit.'

[@nunyabiznez6381]

@@maryrhudy9250 I call it "eating my family history."

[@patrickpittman6966]

It took me almost a whole year to make it, but I finally got to bake this pie last night. It's amazing! It smells fantastic - my wife wanted to come steal some of the pumpkin as it was cooking in the egg-and-herb mixture! My favorite was the way it smelled when the hot pumpkin was added to the raisins, currants, sack, and sugar. Thanks so much!

[@BriWhoSaysNi]

"I would say that the venture seemed a little half-baked, but you'd need an OVEN for that!" I admit I actually laughed out loud at this one. Well done, sir. X)

[@jaredkodiak8160]

I laughed way too hard at that too

[@cecerafferty5570]

I'm six months late but god, me too, that was brilliant

[@OtherThanIntendedPurpose]

as a life long student of Medieval life, I really like how detailed your study of the history of foods, not just " this is an old recipe" you delve into the why and how, as well as the way the standards of life affected what they ate.

[@alicecain4851]

I've only just found this content creator and I've been binging for 4 hours! This is the first time I've seen Max go in for a 2nd bite! I was so excited to see that. I watched what I think was an earlier video where he makes a cheesecake - and he not only didn't taste it, he didn't even cut into it! It was very disappointing because after going into the history and talking about New York style cheesecake, I really was looking forward to seeing the inside of the cake and what he thought about the flavor. To see Max like something enough to take that 2nd bite meant so much. Thank you Max, Jose, and both of your beautiful ginger cats.

[@quantumbandit6202]

"The writer has expelled over one hundred tapeworms in this manner." Hopefully, not from himself...

[@Taolan8472]

I mean, its possible. Parasites were a much more common issue in the days before many of the cleaning and cooking methods we take for granted today.

[@Taolan8472]

Also if any part of the tapeworm remains in your gut, it can regrow. So it may not have been 100 unique worms.

[@TastingHistory]

🤣

[@mellie4174]

They're still commn it's just that we don't recognize them

[@prcervi]

@@mellie4174 modern cases rarely get as drastic as they did in the past, we have better poisons for the parasites now and faster diagnosis

[@IonIsFalling7217]

I’ve solved the pie war: have both. They’re both delicious.

[@LLBD-kj1jb]

OUI OUI OUI, do an episode on Le Cusinier Francois (in modern French it'd be La Cuisine Francaise), would love that. J'adore votre programme!

[@OlEgSaS32]

That was way more history than i imagined for something like pumpkin pie, as soon as you mentioned Scappi, i expected HIM to be the reason why the pie is is made with spices given his spice fetish but no, it wasnt. But this was brilliant and you are an excellent show host

[@ammasdtr19]

I suggest quartering the pumpkin and de-seeding THEN peeling, I find it so much easier.

[@gaiabravo]

I'd love an an episode on Le cuisinier francois, and even an episode on "Le Repertoire de la cuisine" although its not as old

[@rhondacrosswhite8048]

Yes!

[@hgurov]

Never had thanksgiving in my life. Never made Pie. Saw this recipe, and thought to myself this sounds delicious - I have to make this. Problem 1: Finding currants in my country is extremely hard. Problem 2: Didn't find Sherry in time, so had to improvise with 1 oz. red wine and 1 oz. sweet vermouth (I'm mixing drinks on the reg, so had it in stock). Problem 3: we also have no sugar pumpkins, so used a regular one, and had to eyeball the amount. Problem 4: I'm usually good at following directions, but I just had to add some cinnamon (raisins + apples but no cinnamon?!?! Blasphemy...) So, after all the problems (creative limitations, really) have been dealt with - that's one good pie. 10/10 would bake again. Thanks for a great video as always.

[@naweathers8]

When you added cinnamon, about how much did you add? I'm thinking of adding pumpkin spice that I mix that includes cinnamon, nutmeg, clove, ginger, and allspice.

[@LittleImpaler]

You could have used butternut squash. A lot pumpkin pie isn't made with pumpkin, most pumpkins in states aren't made for cooking.

[@kurttappe]

@@LittleImpaler I always use butternut squash instead of pumpkin.

[@phillm156]

Cooking & history, two of my favorite subjects. Thank you.

[@lykander9906]

I used apple cider vinegar instead of sack, sage and parsley for the herbs, and it turned out really well.

[@KayElayempea]

Good to know, I am planning to use apple cider vinegar or red wine vinegar when I make this.

[@patrickheatley6496]

I'm making this with ingredients I have laying around so I was going to try tart cherry juice instead of sack. Glad to know apple cider vinegar will work also.

[@hospitalgal101]

I really think Max deserves to have a television show. He has such a talent for presenting.

[@LeafyK]

I made it! Tastes very healthy, like it'd be a good breakfast dish. Flavour similar to fruitcake. I used dried cranberries in place of currants and tarragon instead of parsley. My family liked it better than I did! Thanks, Max!

[@NatohDine]

As a Native American, yes, go off on the true first thanksgiving!

[@eveningangel9292]

I am distantly related to Edward Winslow. I did a report on him in school (it was a talk about Thanksgiving from the perspective of one of your ancestors assignment) and I talked about all their mistakes, ill fated projects, conflicts with the original inhabitants, and repeated bouts with starvation. My fifth grade teacher gave me a 'D' for "focusing on morbid trivia." My mom went to bat for me pulling out our convoluted family tree and insisting my presentation be re-evaluated. I got a 'B-' for poor spelling. I bet you and I could have done a great collaboration and ruined the mistique of Thanksgiving and Columbus Day for the whole school. PS: Sorry my ancestors were dicks.

[@clarissathompson]

@@eveningangel9292 if you have any insights or stories you could share with me about the Plymouth settlers I would love to know where to source accurate ones. I've just learned I am a descendant of John Alden, a crew member that stayed with the settlers and I'm interested in the true history, not fluffy elaborations. Being Canadian we didn't cover that in school at all. Ditto sorry about my ancestors being dicks, too.

[@snazzypazzy]

@Sharelle W. I think Max mentioned he wants to do an episode or more on Native American cooking too, but was looking for a collaboration to do it well. Those topics might fit together.

[@stargirl7646]

@@snazzypazzy oh that would be an amazing topic! Would love to see episodes about Native American cooking

[@eveningangel9292]

@@clarissathompson This article hits the main points though not all their sources are listed. I'm in my late 30's, so finding the bibliography from my fifth grade report is unlikely. Back in 1990-1991 the school only had one student computer in the library, so my hand written paper was all there was and it is long gone I'm sure. api.nationalgeographic.com/distribution/public/amp/history/2020/11/400-years-on-pilgrims-get-reality-check

[@jonashelmke2564]

Absolutely do one on that french book, how is this even a question

[@TAG77]

My son asked how long he should cook his burrito in the microwave and I told him to just tap the “ Till it be enough” button. Comes out perfect every time!

[@mark63424able]

Hannah, how long do I fry it? _"fry it 'till it be enough"_ Excellent, thanks Hannah!

[@xSwordLilyx]

That reminds me of when my boyfriend made me dinner and stuck stalwartly to the directions on the wrong burner and obediently turned the whole thing to char and served it to me like that. All black. I have definitely made it before with the heat too high but I had never turned the whole pan to cinders! Oh god, was I pissed. I appreciate Hannah's instruction. You cook with your eyes. At least when he made me charred to death bacon this morning I understood. Being raised by Adventists means a lot of vegetsrian bacon, and thats the only way to cook it to make it good at all. Also, i know people who like it nearly that desiccated besides. Make sense. The impossible whopper is only crazy good because it tastes like flame grill.

[@MrKago1]

TH: "use what ever herbs you like." me: _gets out asafoetida and cumin_ challenge accepted

[@snazzypazzy]

In savory dishes I like the combination of pumpkin and cumin - it might work?

[@BlackoutCreature]

Cumin's not an herb, it's a seed.

[@patwhite7300]

Like me some asafoetida!

[@musab.k.9870]

Mate you missed the magical *nutmeg*

[@Nikp117]

@@BlackoutCreature Are you capable of suspending disbelief for the sake of the joke

[@Faith-mk9sp]

This is one of my favorite baking videos on KZbin fir the holidays, I’ve watched this every November since 2020!

[@arlopullman6836]

Just wanted to say your work got me into cooking in a big way. I always thought of it like some kinds arcane science, but you made it seem so accessible and it's been super rewarding giving back to my family.

[@bboygmoney]

This is the best youtube cooking channel. This man is a saint! I didn't know how much I needed historical recipes until this channel.

[@rachelshatrick3647]

I would be so down for Max to make a podcast of him talking about weird history. I would listen so fast

[@kaykepop4084]

Found your channel browsing for pumpkin pie recipes. How interesting and entertaining to find out the history of different foods. Cannot wait to watch more of your videos. New subscriber 👍

[@lucy8950]

Thank you for the realistic explanation that so many pilgrim thanksgiving stories are misinformation....I am a teacher who cringes at the cute story books used in schools to “teach thanksgiving”..... well done, sir!

[@jeffmalone5557]

This would make a great Technical Challenge on The Great British Baking Show. My family always had sweet potato pies on Thanksgiving and Christmas. I never knew it was a protest pie. I'm from Alabama and I don't remember ever having pumpkin pie.

[@dawnjohnson7688]

I introduced my brother to Tasting History, and he was intrigued enough to make pompion pie for our Thanksgiving dinner. We both liked this at least as much as traditional pumpkin pie. Now we're both hooked on the pie and the channel! He just sent this link to my sister the chef in the Seattle area.... better to spread you than the Coronavirus, Max!

[@LaraineBouguer]

I would be the brother in question. When the sides of the crust I had made shrank more than I had anticipated upon blind baking it, I briefly worried that I couldn't get all the filling into it. Then I remembered that the original recipe didn't have any quantities at all... and imagined Mark doing an impression of Barbarossa saying, "The recipe is more what you call GUIDELINES than actual rules!"... So I only used one apple. Still turned out great! :)