Pure vs Modified Sine Inverters

[@bonniejo5246]

I’m gathering information for now. I already have the van. This video was very helpful. Thanks.

[@OdysseyCamper]

Bonnie Jo I’m glad it helped! Thanks for watching!

[@izifaddag8221]

I am a trucker now - have been for 11 years. Before that I was an electrical engineering tech for 35 years specializing for the last 10 years with RF specifically cell phones. The 70s were spent dealing with TVs and other consumer products. It will be hard to keep this brief. Frankly it doesn't matter a jot if you use modified or sine. Reason? ALL electronics run on DC not AC. The comment about the HP laptops is utter piffle. I have run 2 for years on modified. A Compaq and an HP. Very few things run on pure AC. Heaters, motors (not always), irons, coffee pots. These are just electrical appliances. If it is electronics they ALL run on DC. How do they get DC from AC? Your monitor, computer, stereo and just about everything else has a rectifier which chops that sine / modified wave in half. A rectifier is a diode. If a bridge rectifier is used (a 4 diode arrangement) then the bottom half of the waveform is flipped up giving positive half cycles only. This bumpy positive waveform is then smoothed by a capacitor. The capacitor charges and discharges creating a DC voltage with a ripple on top. More capacitors are then used of smaller and smaller value to remove that ripple. In modern equipment this DC voltage will probably be put through a PWM circuit which takes the raw resource and creates a stable and accurate voltage no matter what deviation might take place through rectification. Yes this is the same circuit used in Solar charge controller. That is what that large black block is that you plug into the 110 and then into your computer. It is a PWM active smoothing circuit. The computer needs incredibly stable DC to function. Cell phones are the same. So you see a modified sinewave inverter will not do any harm. I have run many over the years in my truck / home for the last 11 years. The only problem I have ever had was with AC driven LED lights. I have killed 3. So I bought a bunch of DC to DC buck / boost circuits from China and tried it that way. I killed another light only slower. I have come to the conclusion that it is because it needs a current limiter in there. Other than that no problems. No hums or interference of any kind. This computer and monitor I am writing this on now is powered by a Potek 5000 watt modified sinewave inverter. BTW that waveform on the 175 suucckkeed. A modified sinewave should look a bit different than that. That was a square wave with a strange mark space ratio. It should look like an Aztec pyramid. A square wave with a smaller one on top. The problem with ALL inverters is idle current or sometimes called quiescent current. The wasted current when the inverter is on but not doing any work. In my minivan build the microwave is run by a 1500 watt inverter but it is only switched on when the micro is used. My fridge in the truck is rigged to turn on the inverter when it needs to run back to temperature. It uses the thermal switch to trigger a relay to turn on the inverter. Sorry for the technical answer but you did say comment. My background has helped with being a trucker immensely. Likewise with the minivan build. I love your practical approach and enjoy your videos. Look me up on Faceblock as izifaddag and if there is any help regarding electronics I will do what I can. Best wishes.

[@izifaddag8221]

I have read through this again and I must apologize. My explanation is tough to understand without diagrams and a much lengthier description. Trust me it is true. Sorry that I didn't do a better job.

[@OdysseyCamper]

Izif Addag thank you for your knowledge and insights. The one concern I had about a modified sine (and the reason I bought the pure sine) was using it with my electric blanket. The manufacturer (sunbeam....but pbly not the same company you and I remember) says specifically, that the temperature controller cannot be used with a modified sine inverter. I will probably risk the $40 to test this in the future and see if it actually fails. I have also noticed that the power supply in my home TV is much noisier on modified sine. I’m not sure if that is because it uses a switching supply or not. Anyway, thanks for the insight and your knowledge!

[@izifaddag8221]

@@OdysseyCamper It was a pleasure. I too had a Sunbeam electric blanket and ditched it. I tried it on household and it was also useless. There is so much filtering for noise on any modern electronic device you wouldn't believe it. The reason is that almost everything inside is run by digital ICs. That is not strictly true but close enough. They are 'clocked' so as to work in synchronization. To do this an oscillator is used that MUST be super super accurate. For that to happen its power line must be dead on all the time. A GPS in your car is a good example. It certainly doesn't rely on the cigarette lighter socket it is plugged into. It stabilizes and smooths the snot out of that basic voltage. Not sure what is happening with your household TV. I am using a 28" Vizio monitor in my truck. Zero interference, it is running on modified power. I have run this on about 6 different inverters and brands. No hums or crackles. It is sourced with a Toshiba laptop and a PS3 / 4. I am still always learning after all these years - at the moment I am studying LiFePho batteries and how to make them. A real puzzle but I think I might have solved it. I think the answer is 18120s with a BSM I have found so that every cell is monitored. Sorry I wandered. If there is anything I can help you with just look for me on Faceblock. Izif Addag. Not Asian I am English American based out of Texas and Mississippi. 11 years living full time on the rode in my truck. There is no house or apartment. Best wishes.

[@MaximumEfficiency]

what about dangers of RF? Reported Biological Effects from Radiofrequency Radiation at Low-Intensity Exposure(Cell Tower, Wi-Fi, Wireless Laptop and 'Smart' Meter RF Intensities)

[@izifaddag8221]

@@MaximumEfficiency I'll be honest with you. I don't know too much about that. What I do know is that we are bombarded by RF and radiation constantly. We are from the time we are born. I realize that there is documented connection but personally I think it is too little to really start worrying about.

[@CuracaoLife]

The Bestek inverter has a cooling fan, and the modified sine wave does not.. that is the extra draw..

[@OdysseyCamper]

C L That’s a good observation and honestly, I didn’t pay close attention to it during the test. It seems to come on under high load or after running for awhile. So I don’t THINK it was on (I also can’t hear it in the video) but it IS a possibility. Thank you for the observation!

[@blackdog1485]

Can you make a -6.66hz please

[@lebon2002be]

The fan draws current all the time, I wonder if we disconnect the fan for a while to see if it draws less power from the battery. I'm looking to buy this inverter, the pure sine wave is very nice. Thanks for the review! Cheers.

[@hankreaden67]

Roger Olivier I hope you found it useful! I forgot to check to see if the fan cycles on this one, but it definitely doesn’t on the cheap modified sine. On the Whistler that I use elsewhere, the fan cycles. One other thing that occurred to me later on was that the unloaded draw on each of these was close to the difference you see when the bulb is connected. Meaning they don’t have a huge difference in efficiency, just that the base current draw is different between them. Of course I’d need to check them at full load as well. So there are some unanswered questions for a future video. However, if 300W will fill your needs, BUY this inverter. I’ve been very happy with it. Thanks for watching!

[@izifaddag8221]

An inverter is very much like a car audio amplifier. Basically it is an oscillator that is ringing a coil. A simplified explanation but accurate. This is happening all the time. Fans normally turn on and off with a thermal switch. Do not turn the fan off. These gadgets use mosfets all over the place and they are very sensitive to both temperature and static. Leave it be. Just turn the inverter off as much as possible or increase the amp hours on you power source.

[@thomasjust2663]

Does the sine wave from the inverter still look like a sine wave with load? or does it get distorted?

[@OdysseyCamper]

I’ve run it with about 180W load on it and it looks the same. However, I have not tested it with the full 300W. I will put that on my list for future videos. Thanks for the idea and for watching!

[@jackt6112]

The full-sine will draw slightly more than modified because of the HF circuit, all things being equal. However, all things not being equal, the BUSTEK is the highest idle draw full-sine that I know of. With the voltage higher, you will see .8A to .9A. SAMLEX is the best inverter, but 4x the cost, and FCC Part B. It uses .25A at idle. However, there is one that has all of the features of the BUSTEK, and close to the same price, the GIANDEL 300 Watt with an efficiency up to 91% and

[@OdysseyCamper]

Cool, thanks for the recommendation! I’m not sure if that one was available at the time I bought the Bestek, but it helps the viewers to know there are better options. Thanks and thanks for watching!

[@HW-op7pq]

Great info, really helps me to choose as im just about to purchase an inverter. Thanks for sharing

[@OdysseyCamper]

Cool! Thanks for watching!

[@timlivingston5278]

Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge! Did you also hook up your oscilloscope to the Die Hard & Schumacher built-in inverters?

[@OdysseyCamper]

I did! However, I did not film that one. They are both modified sine :-( Thanks for watching my vids!

[@timmywitaburner3698]

is modified safe??? rechargeable battery and routers.?

[@OdysseyCamper]

Concerned Techy Modified sine is good for just about everything. However, the temperature control on an electric blanket is one exception. According to the manufacturer, it should only be run on pure sine. I’ve also seen tests that showed a microwave is more efficient on pure sine. Thanks for watching!

[@vicentecarrasco3653]

The pure sine wave inverter have more electric pulse than the modified sine wave？

[@VantasticOdyssey]

Thanks Odyssey Camper 🚐😎

[@OdysseyCamper]

Thanks for watching! Anyone reading this should go check out Vantastic Odyssey. Good info there as well!

[@cubey]

I just ordered a Renogy 700w one since I want it to run my gaming laptop. I have run it on my 750w modified sine inverter but it buzzes the power adapter so it's probably not good for it. The power adapter costs $50 used so it's better to get a better inverter than ruin adapter. expensive

[@armantatar7842]

you should have tested the sine wave with load on it. It is not full sine wave from other reviews

[@OdysseyCamper]

I will do that in a future video. I actually have tested this when it was in the van with a 280W load on it. I think the reason for the review comments (at least on Amazon) is that there are different versions of this brand of inverter. Some are pure sine, some are modified. I've almost made the mistake of looking at the pure sine and then seeing the modified below, then saying "wow, it's $20 cheaper" before I realized my mistake.

[@elvinhaak]

Measure the output of the lightbulb and do another comparison... probably the light is putting a better output on the pure sinewave. At least this is what I found in my experiences.

[@OdysseyCamper]

Elvin Haak I just tried it and you are correct, the pure sine powered bulb is visibly brighter. I didn’t notice that when I tested them separately. I don’t have the equipment to measure the light output, but I’d say about 10% brighter. Thanks for your comment!

[@richardriley4415]

Very useful.

[@OdysseyCamper]

Thanks for watching!

[@gamvin2107]

modified sinewave is efficient in terms of resistive loads only such as incandescent light bulbs and resistive heating elements for boiling. But in terms of inductive loads and capacitive loads (such as fridges,Air conditioner, dishwasher, washing machine etc....) pure sinewave is more efficient than modified sine inverter (often times modified sine has difficulty starting these equipment)..|With regards to idle current modified has lower idle current than pure sinewave inverter. If you are using LED bulbs go for pure sinewave.

[@OdysseyCamper]

Good information! Thank you for your input!

[@izifaddag8221]

I have had zero trouble starting inductive loads. A fridge and microwave have run for years. There is a problem with power utilization re efficiency but that is all. A pizza that on household 110 takes 4 minutes will need 6. More to do with current limitation than the waveform. Only LEDS have given me trouble.

[@electroniccraftschannel3832]

Thank for this vidio, I like it

[@OdysseyCamper]

Electronic crafts Channel thanks for watching!

[@electroniccraftschannel3832]

@@OdysseyCamper ok👍👍