Purgatorio, Canto 17 with Dr. Brian Williams

[@patcamerino5456]

Again, Dean Williams presents one of the better summaries of a single canto as well as one for several cantos ... both of the past and future. Some readers might appreciate a parallel rendition of Dante’s Purgatorio from another viewpoint: Bishop Robert Barron’s video series: “The Seven Deadly Sins and the Seven Lively Virtues.”

[@xwretchedxyouthx]

A beautiful and rejuvenating lecture to begin the second half of this journey. So well done.

[@johndunham9236]

What a well ordered presentation, Dr. Williams! You are right in noticing the center of the poem's message being love and the right, proper order of it being the key to virtue and blessedness. Again, it is helpful to remember that we are in the place where grace is straightening out nature. This structure is inherently classical and Mediaeval (perhaps just Catholic) in its concept of moral order in the universe. The philosophical tradition of Realism and other considerations of the Chain of Being are woven through and through. The idea of sin being, in a way, wasted time is certainly convicting. I am enthused once again to clean up my daily habits and manage the gift of life that I have been given. This should make everyone who hears this proper word consider their time as well. Consider your use of hyper-communication technology and how much time is wasted on lesser than lesser things. Consider changing your media interface and your commitment to the downward-pointed cyber world we live in. Consider the real things of life that are good, true, and beautiful and see clearly how great is the opportunity cost. As we enter into the cornice of Sloth, I know I need to listen intently. Thank you!

[@Pollyanna99]

What a great, clear and helpful summary of the whole content of Purgatorio so far. And a convincing and convicting argument for living a godly life. Heartfelt. Thank you.

[@5kidsNeverDullMoment]

Excellent, clear presentation! This felt academic without being pretentious.

[@rastarobby4657]

Masterful approach to the Canto, and to teaching. Dante would be pleased with this explanation and admonishment.

[@danna9641]

Whoo Hoo!! Let’s go - Upward! Higher! Thank you, Dr Williams!

[@EttaMacDonaghDumler]

This jewel of an explanation is rich for coming to terms in one's own life's journey about the virtues and vices of love and orderly/disorderly attachments in our lives. Useful to ponder this video as a reflection supplement for Ignatian meditations in the second week of the Spiritual Exercises. Thank you!

[@raelynearnest3176]

Sin as a waste of time reminded me of a similarity of St. Augustine saying, “Late have I loved thee.” This: “…the goods and delights God offers us seeing them like beautiful breadcrumbs leading us back to God and the abundant life he offers us,” evoked such imagery in my mind and filled my heart. Thank you for the superb presentation.

[@jojomontgomery7119]

So good, thank you.

[@BGV1983]

Ordo amoris is something I need to be reminded of daily.... Thank you for this terrific talk!

[@shannonberkebile5004]

Wow, love that quote about God as the middle term. I need to reflect on that a bit. Thank you!

[@brianwilliams1181]

It's a powerful image from Kierkegaard's book "Works of Love."

[@tali1500]

@@brianwilliams1181 Dr Williams, thank you for that quote about ordo amoris and God as the middle term to achieve it, it blew my mind! and also for introducing me to the poem Metanoia and to Scott Cairns. I looked it up immediately: it is one of the most amazing things I've ever read. I'm really grateful for your videos!

[@ritaperez1348]

Thank you, Dr. Williams, for an excellent recap as well as a view forward. I am currently in the middle of reading St. Augustine’s “Confessions” and your frequent references are sure confirmation of its relevance in the journey to eternity as well as an affirmation that I’m going down the right path! 😝

[@brianwilliams1181]

If you're reading Augustine and Dante, you're definitely on the right path with some of the best guides you can find!

[@treborketorm]

Thank you Dr, Williams. As I struggle through Purgatorio and follow the soul train up the mountain in Canto 17, I am a half step behind you with a hand on your shoulder like Dante following Virgil.

[@hunterrberube385]

I appreciate the video being 13:33 - angel numbers! Great discussion. This made it easier for me to absorb Canto 17.

[@frankcahill747]

A wonderful presentation. Thank you, Dr. Williams.

[@xieouyang1341]

This was a terrific presentation and explanation. I must go back and watch it again once I finish reading the canto.

[@susanabbott8829]

Simply wonderful. Thank you, very much Dr. Williams

[@cheryltouryan3323]

Thank you for clrifying the ordered love, in an oiherwise obscure seeming Cante 17 Kenell Touryan

[@lorimorrison6539]

I love this!!! Thank you! I'm wondering if he's seeing all that doesn't lead us up the mountain as a waste of time! We typically don't view sloth in such a rigorous light!!! I've heard this again and again and keep loving it more and more. I love the phrase, "more to be Christian with"!!!

[@allegrasmick4719]

Wonderful direction toward the joy of Paradisio. I love all the Augustine allusions. What a great Saint he was. And is that painting on the wall by Bruce Hermann?

[@sarahflynn924]

Brilliant

[@xieouyang1341]

I have a question. How can Virgil know and explain the structure of Purgatory when he has not been there before. I recall that, in one of the cantos, Virgil actually says something like about not knowing the place.

[@5kidsNeverDullMoment]

I repeatedly read that Virgil understands logic, love, and Truth. These he relays to Dante in Purgatory; yet he defers to Beatrice and others for real knowledge.

[@tomm5256]

Does someone know the Scott Cairns poem referenced in today’s talk?

[@elizabethbrink3761]

I believe it was called Metanoia.

[@brianwilliams1181]

Here you go: "Adventures in New Testament Greek: Metanoia" Repentance, to be sure, But of a species far less likely to oblige sheepish repetition. Repentance, you’ll observe, glibly bears the bent of thought revisited, and mind’s familiar stamp -a quaint, half-hearted doubleness that couples all compunction with a pledge of recurrent screw-up. The heart’s metanoia, on the other hand, turns without regret, turns not so much away, as toward, as if the slow pilgrim has been surprised to find that sin is not so bad as it is a waste of time.

[@tomm5256]

Thank you. (For the poem and the effort you and your colleagues have put into this program)

[@treborketorm]

“Adventures in New Testament Greek: Metanoia” From Slow Pilgrims: The Collected Poems of Scott Cairns “The heart’s metanoia, on the other hand, turns without regret, turns not so much away, as toward, as if the slow pilgrim has been surprised to find that sin is not so bad as it is a waste of time.” (Note: "metanoia" a change in one's way of life resulting from penitence or spiritual conversion.

[@tomm5256]

@@brianwilliams1181 in Ciardi’s notes for this Canto he says, “To read Dante is to educate the eye.” Between that quote, the poem Metanoia, and your excellent presentation, I’ve had an amazing experience. I cannot thank you enough.

[@patcamerino5456]

Canto 17: On the third Terrace, Dante and Virgil encounter the repentant wrathful, those who had engaged in “justified anger,” in contrast to the “unjustified wrath” (ira mala) continued to be held by the sinners of the Inferno. As the Pilgrims progress, the smoke concealing the penitents from one another begins to thin. Since visual exhortations would have been hidden by the smoke, Dante now has interior visions serving the purposes of “whips and bridles.” The visions relate to righteous wrath against family, neighbor and divinity, all of which can be remitted by remorse. As they leave the third Terrace, they hear the penitential hymn: “Blessed are the peacemakers ... those untouched by sinful wrath.” The Angel of Meekness allows them to enter the next staircase, having wiped out the third “P” from Dante’s forehead. As they ascend the stairs towards the Terrace of the Slothful, Dante begins to feel a similar torpor. This “accidia” or “not caring” is the sin that experiences a desire to discontinue the path towards love. Dante and Virgil engage in a discussion about love. God created Natural Love which is perfect (without error). Human or mind-directed love is subject to error: loving too much or not loving enough as well as loving the wrong thing or not loving the right thing, which leads to evil and sin (missing the goal.) Thus, love is the “seed” for both virtue and vice (humility, charity, meekness versus pride, envy, wrath.) Laziness in planting the seed becomes the sin of sloth.

[@philryan3540]

One would think that by the time one has a doctorate, one would know the difference between "you and I," and "you and me,"

[@brianwilliams1181]

Yes, one would think that, but in the moment of recording at the end of a very long, I suppose I slipped.