How NOT to Build a Tunnel under Stonehenge?

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Welcome to the rather intense subject that is Stonehenge and its tunnel. Its been 27 years in the making and we are still debating the pro's and con's. What do you think, should we build the tunnel or move the dual carriage way further south? Or is there a better option.
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[@pwhitewick]

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[@pwhitewick]

@Credible Threat I'll work on it....

[@agolftwittler1223]

A tunnel? Wouldn't it be a lot cheaper to just move those old rocks to the side a little bit and rearrange them nicely? Nobody would be the wiser. Just kidding 😁 Love your videos 👍

[@yeoldegrumpy-git1483]

@@agolftwittler1223 you will have Mark Drakeford demanding the rocks back

[@PenguinTutor]

I believe we should develop public transport further, but the public transport needs to be a better experience to attract people to use it. That means that it has to go from where people are, to where they want to go. With much better integration between different forms of transport. It also needs to be reasonably priced. The cost of traveling by train in the UK is prohibitively expensive. You can often travel a journey by car for a quarter of the cost as by train and that's for a single person. Take a family by train and it's not financially viable. The government needs to get serious about public transport and that should include subsidising train journeys.

[@agolftwittler1223]

@@yeoldegrumpy-git1483 I could imagine a lot of public outrage and rightfully so. But why Mark Drakeford in particular? Gonna haul them off to Wales? 😂

[@richardwatson5222]

We live in Amesbury. Part of the tunnel is to eliminate the road from the view of Stonehenge. Personally I would just plant a load of trees to hide it. May take a few years for them to mature, but by the time they decide on this tunnel you could have an entire forest growing 😹

[@pf32900]

Tree roots might damage undiscovered archaeology.

[@Maceochaidh677]

You would change the historic look of that landscape forever if you did. The roads bad enough. It's unlikely the area around Stonehenge would have had as many trees as there is now. For one it ruins the site lines of the monument and potentially it would affect the sun at the winter solstice rising through the stones. I'm not opposed to a tunnel but I'm not sure why it can't be done on the existing site of the 303. Lower the road and cover. then open up that side of the site so you can walk the avenue properly.

[@TheRichardHonor]

The analysis has shown that the throughput is double the capacity of the road at the moment. That said, the rubber necking is insane, we saw 2 people just taking photos while driving the other day, so absolutely hiding it should be a priority.

[@user-ei2lm6us2e]

trees would not be a element of the natural landscape

[@rogerphelps9939]

You would still get intrusion when visiting the stones. The whole idea of the tunnel is to restore the landscape around Stonehenge to an undivided whole. A road a couple of hundred yards from the stones is incompatible with that.

[@antonioveritas]

I remember coming home from holiday and driving past Stonehenge in the 1970s with mum and dad and my brother. We had an old Morris Minor that had become very dusty during the camping holiday, and we were all wearing big straw sun hats. Mum had bought some houseplants with very large flowers which we were holding because there was no space in the boot for them. It was just before the Summer solstice, and as we approached Stonehenge a policeman stepped into the road and stopped us. He put his head in the window, looked round at us all, and then said to dad "I'm sorry sir, I thought you were a bunch of hippies!" 😄

[@bubzthetroll]

I live in a small town in the States where there’s no regular public transportation and we still arrange free bussing to our county fair and other events to avoid these kinds of traffic issues. I totally agree that public transit is the best solution to protect the site.

[@stuartthornton3027]

The only problem being that the ministry of transport has already established that the majority of traffic on this route is travelling from the west country to London and south coast. Unfortunately better local public transport will not change the traffic load in the slightest.

[@harrypenn611]

Yea great idea but as the other bloke has said it's all long distance travelling not local

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

There are long distance methods of public transport. Like trains

[@AndoverIT]

@@HappyBeezerStudios Which are more expensive than driving and depending where your relatives live, often nowhere near sadly.

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

@@AndoverIT across the country is 49€ per train or 34.59 in gas. and the train ticket is valid a full month. So if you also need to go back, it's still 49 per train, but 69.18 per car. And the UK also has a well established network, so from Exeter, Bristol or Plymouth to London will also work per train.

[@01cthompson]

It's a similar situation here in Connecticut in the US. We are spending tons of money improving/widening highway systems while very little is done in terms of improving rail. Up to about the 1930s we had plenty of rail routes. They are long gone and would be near impossible to replace due to development. That's too bad because we need them now.

[@JamesAllmond]

I am down here in Georgia, in the US. What's passenger rail? Haven't had it since the 1950's...freight only, old closed stations in tons of a small towns.

[@andrewreynolds4949]

There may not be a lot of obvious new passenger rail projects in Connecticut, but they are definitely making improvements along the NEC

[@chasbodaniels1744]

@andrew reynolds NEC = Northeast Corridor . . . Boston to D.C.

[@andrewreynolds4949]

@@chasbodaniels1744 Yes, including Connecticut, which he was speaking of, and which I specified in my comment

[@daveb5206]

Whilst I do disagree with some of your points made, Paul, it is still refreshing to see a more informative rather than just another 'roads are bad' generic argument. For me, the biggest issue is how significant the A303 is, connecting a very large but generally sparsely populated area in the south west to the capital city. The sparsely populated bit is key, as that makes the 'spend it on public transport' option very difficult to implement - do you improve a local journey as per your example, do you improve connectivity within Devon and Cornwall to the mainline to London, or do you build something along the lines of a HS3 to try and entice as much long distance traffic off the road? Plus, whilst the other single carriageway sections of the A303 do get congested, the delays elsewhere are not even close to the scale of what Stonehenge sees. For those reasons, I just cannot see any benefit in doing nothing, but the conundrum in what the best option to solving as many of the issues as possible is means that I don't think I'll see anything done in my lifetime - and I'm only in my mid 30's!

[@thesteelrodent1796]

longterm there is no future in individual transport, it is simply not sustainable, so investing in public transport is the only future if we want to retain civilization as we know it. Otherwise our great-great-great-grandchildren will be forced to use horse and carriage to get around. Forcing people out of their cars is the only way mankind can survive, and the best way to do that is to make road travel less attractive than the trains and busses. And yes, I know the UK transit is way too expensive because there's no government subsidy, because the UK government doesn't want people to use public transport

[@hairyairey]

@@thesteelrodent1796 "there's no government subsidy" - false - train fares are about half the real cost. The TOCs are paid to run trains, almost all of them do not return an overall profit. It's not really privatisation.

[@adrianthoroughgood1191]

@@hairyairey that's only happened because of covid, when costs increased due to extra cleaning etc and capacity was cut to around a quarter due to social distancing. There are still fewer people on there now because people are still wary of public spaces and more people are having meeting over zoom instead of travelling.

[@hairyairey]

@@adrianthoroughgood1191 no that's always been the case that rail fares are subsidised. Please don't believe the nonsense of the Grauniad they are not above lying about this! Even if covid alters the way work happens we still have tourism and rail freight.

[@hairyairey]

@@adrianthoroughgood1191 Government support comes through three main mechanisms: A direct grant to Network Rail Subsidies to train operating companies (TOCs) from central government Subsidies given by devolved administrations, either countries such as Scotland, Wales or cities which have some control over transport such as London, Manchester or Liverpool.

[@waerlogauk]

As a frequent user of the A303 I have noticed that the traffic jams do not start at the end of the dual carriageway or the roundabout at either end of this section although on busy days they do backup well passed these two points. The queues start exactly level with Stonehenge, it only takes one vehicle slowing down for a view of the henge to trigger the build up of a queue that can last for half an hour. The solution is to put up a curtain to block the view of the henge, it can be painted with pleasant views of countryside so that people still like the drive.

[@bathroomjon1]

Totally agree - I’ve suggested a big long fence along about 2 miles of the road many times! Cheap solution and would stop the rubber neckers - might also promote an increase in paying viewers at the stones as well

[@bigbenlorax]

Yeah that's what I've alway thought. A tasteful, noise reducing fence planted out with natives. So much cheaper

[@rhodsullivan7773]

Agree. Past.

[@wamgoc]

Totally agree!

[@markbailey2130]

or trees?

[@davidjuson5608]

I'm with you. Public transport has been the only practical solution to the nation's transport infrastructure since the first anniversary of the first Honiton by-pass. Now there's a place imprinted on the driving public's imagination that deserves a video.

[@emilylouise1979]

I travelled this route recently and my basic observation is that everybody slows down to rubberneck at Stonehenge . We could see relative clear road . As we proceeded to criticise rubberneckers this huge gap appeared in front of us . We had done what we were complaining about ! So while public transport does need improvement I think a solution for the road would be a tall fence say maybe 8 ft to take away the view of Stonehenge . Then put signs either end saying " no view of Stonehenge . " They could just built an underpass under the roundabout to maintain flow . Not a bridge that will increase view ability of Stonehenge .

[@emaartamor]

It's true, I'm local and the traffic is also caused by drivers slowing down to view Stonehenge. Be cheaper throw up a verge of mud all along that stretch of road and plant some trees ☺

[@emilylouise1979]

@@emaartamor I wonder how many collisions take place near there ? Sorry officer I was looking at Stonehenge and I rear ended the car in front

[@rogerphelps9939]

Wreong. Rubbernecking has been debunked as the cause of queuing.

[@RichardWatt]

I grew up in northeast Scotland, north of Aberdeen: we had to suffer a similar problem for 40+ years: only in the last few years have the local authority got off their chairs to make the whole stretch dual carriageway (it was only partially dual for a while, then a couple of bypasses built in the 1990s).

[@janicehassett4400]

Richard, take your point but here's why it can't be DC... and I'm a Scott living in Wiltshire staga303.blogspot.com/2022/07/a303-dual-carriageway-heres-reason-why.html

[@ManicXD]

Gotta love that useless gate action at 11:12 :) Definitely agree that a tunnel seems like a huge waste of money with plenty of potential unforeseen damage to the historic landscape :(

[@Dirpitz]

I live in Warminster, when I have to go to London it's always the same huge traffic at Stonehenge that ends the moment you get past it. EVERY DAMN TIME it's people slowing down as they pass looking at it, I honestly think a tree line or some way of blocking the view from the road would immediately solve the issue, afterall if people can't see it they have no reason to slow to a crawl to gawp at it

[@rogerphelps9939]

No. It is the merging of ttraffic from tthe dual carriageway onto the single carriageway. People do not stop and gawp, just a quick glance. Somettimes the roundabouts at either end cause holdups too.

[@rogerphelps9939]

The only reason that traffic queues end afer you pass Stonehenge going east is tthat the road is dual carriageway from there on. It has nothing to do with rubbernecking.

[@theoutdoorappreciationsoci8858]

There is also the risk of interfering with the water table and damaging streams such as the one at Blick Mead next to Vespasian’s Camp. Which is very close to the proposed entrance of the tunnel you showed in the video.

[@rogerphelps9939]

So you think tthey haven't thoughtt about that?

[@herbypumpkin1256]

They built a tunnel for A3 under Hindhead. Tranquillity in the National Trust reserve was restored. Should have built one on M3 through Twyford Downs as well.

[@Jack-xi8ji]

Too right. What happened at Twyford Down was a f****** disgrace.

[@keithreynolds]

The Hindhead tunnel is regularly closed… what rubbish planning that is! K ( :

[@Stealth360stealth]

@@Jack-xi8jieveryone talks about twyford down, the real disgrace is the M40 Chiltern Cutting

[@rogerphelps9939]

Absolutely.

[@sihollett]

@@Stealth360stealth Tywford Down happened when people were more aware of this sort of thing, hasn't matured as much (which hides the white chalk), and has a silly ledge that makes it seem more of a scar on the landscape. But yes, the M40 cutting is worse. Having read the Twyford Down report - every other scheme proposed was worse. What was built was the least-bad option they came up with despite crowd sourcing various ideas. Tunnels would affect the water meadows that the M3 passes over on a viaduct, as well as take out at least half of St Catherine's Hill (a three lane motorway is rather wide and needs quite some clearance above it!), because the motorway would have to be lower to get under the top of the hill with a lid above it (plus the approach cutting would be longer and deeper. And light pollution as the tunnel would have to be lit). The previous road severed the hill from the city and was poor from both traffic and environmental damage points of view.

[@cyrildhy8993]

Remember Stonehenge used to have an Airfield and a Railway line. You miss out the forth route. The Combined A36 Stonehenge, Salisbury bypass. I wish they would turn the under used Boscombe Down into airfield an Airport. It would be easy to reinstate the railway line. And possibly be cheaper than building another runway at Heathrow The forth route could link in to Boscombe.

[@handyandy6050]

Surely the forth route would have to go via Scotland?

[@66FordCorsair]

I remember seeing the models for the proposed Salisbury bypass otions in 1988/89 which also included a long way around Stonehenge bypass.

[@AbdulJamSarnie]

Boscombe Down is a military and research site, not really compatible with civilian use. It also has a road crossing the runway with traffic light control and a hump in the middle of the runway which wouldn't suit big passenger planes.

[@cyrildhy8993]

@@AbdulJamSarnie The road is only to get the other side of the airfield it could be put in a tunnel like any other airport. Get Network Rail to do it. Probably only take a month of so. Six days to put canal tunnel though the Gloucester to Bristol line. Boscombe has been used for passengers due Bournemouth being too short. The only real use it getting at the present is by the Korean Airforce .

[@richardclowes7428]

Public transport isn't the answer unfortunately. The A303 is a major arterial route connecting London with the South West. Along the entire route from London are major manufacturing and distribution hubs, and in fact pretty much anything entering the country in the South East wishing to get to the South West will go around the M25 , head off down the M3 and onto the A303...unless it's clogged with traffic in which case it'll go the long way around, along the M4 and down the M5. And Public transport is OK if you are going from one place to another like London to Bristol or Salisbury to Exeter, but what happens if you are going to a smaller town or village?...no one in their right mind would run a whole network of empty busses around the towns villages on the offchance someone will use them. The answer is move with the times and lessen the impact as much as possible, either a dual carriageway to replace the single lane bit, which will of course ruin the site. Or hide the road in a tunnel and make the entire distance from Amesbury to just west of Winterbourne Stoke a dual carriageway. And then finally connect Sparkford to Taunton with dual carriageway (because you can't make the twisty road over the Blackdown Hills any better). That means a journey from Camberley to Exeter (about 150 miles) with a fair wind and no holdups, should take just over 2 hours which is easily 30 minutes quicker than it is currently on a good day.

[@gaugeonesteam]

I went to Stonehenge in about 1971 when you could sit on the stones and eat your packed lunch. I'd echo what my mother used to say: "If you kept these places more secret they would not get destroyed by publicity and loads of visitors and then you could more easily protect them" Sadly I think this approach would not be possible now.... My late mother was a member of the "National Trust", "The council for the protection of Rural England". etc. etc. and really cared about this stuff...

[@Bobrogers99]

I visited Stonehenge in the 1980s, and even then our tour group was allowed to touch the stones. I agree about spending the money on public transport! The UK already has an impressive system (compared to the US), so some of the highway users could take a train if it were available. As energy costs rise, public transportation is far more fuel-efficient than individual vehicles.

[@firesurfer]

Been there, done that in 76. I was surprised I could go inside.

[@skylarius3757]

In part the A303 is mostly a dual carriageway but after a certain point it becomes an alternating dual carriage way. I think the road should be made wide enough to be a dual carriageway because it is the main route to the west country without using the M4 or M5 if you're coming from the M25/ M3.

[@highpath4776]

The area determined as Stonehenge I have long maintained is substantially larger than the immediate vicinity. Both farming and military have managed to both destroy, and protect , the area, we have lost the detail but generally much is extant

[@firesurfer]

There are so many "henges" around there.

[@professionallayabout3699]

P&R I used to be an Amesbury resident (35y) talk of doing something all that time, I suggested at the consultation that a rail or tram link should be built on the former rail line from Grately with stops for Porton Down, Allington, Boscombe Down, Amesbury and on to visitor center incorporating a coach park near Solstice park! I know it would not solve the 2 into 1 road but would help get some traffic away from Stonehenge 😊

[@jimcarr8425]

I suspect very little of the traffic is actually visiting Stonehenge

[@professionallayabout3699]

@@jimcarr8425 True! I think tunnel is solution, but if not built the public transport in the area is not great and needs addressing as the number of dwelling's continue to increase. Some alternative bicycle friendly public transport would help as local road network as you know can be horrendous at time's!

[@rogerphelps9939]

99.99% of the traffic at Stonehenge is just passing through.

[@alexanderguesthistorical7842]

As someone who lives in Stranraer, whose railway to Dumfries was unceremoniously ripped out by Beeching, I agree with the sentiment that the rail links need to be better (at least you've got one). But as someone who used to live in Hampshire and used the A303, 30 and 35 regularly to travel to see family in Devon, really the problem is the fact that there ought to be a motorway between London and the west country. The A303 is the biggest road there is performing that function, but it's just inadequate. Okay, building a proper motorway away from Stonehenge would be MONSTROUSLY costly and objectionable, but really it's the same problem as the crossroads at Hindhead. That was a bottleneck for donkeys years, and a plan for dealing with it was being tossed around for donkeys years. But now it's finally been dealt with, with the tunnel. The reason? Well, I believe it has a lot to do with the LONDON 2012 OLYMPICS. And the politicians realising that with all the people travelling to London from the continent, Hindhead just had to be dealt with. So it was a POLITICAL imperative which changed the outlook and forced the construction work to be carried out. Trouble is, I don't think Plymouth has any plans to host the Olympics any time soon 😆

[@rogerphelps9939]

Maybe Plymouth should host the sailing next time. Roads into Weymouth certainly benefitted.

[@johnekins4408]

Please please please, leave well alone, in the sixty’s my girlfriend and I visited Stonehenge. We walked right up to stones it did rain but it was a glorious do nothing.

[@user-ei2lm6us2e]

In 1971 with Jr year abroad at college my English friend and I visited Stonehenge on the day before the Winter Equinox and watched the sunset between two of the thin stones, we were sure that was thought out by the Mesolithic Builders where tuned to the Earth and its cycles with the sun and stars...The North star was across from where the sun came up

[@rogerphelps9939]

Far more people want to visit Stonehenge nowadays. It is a jewel in tthe crown of our heritage and should be treated witth respect.

[@sihollett]

25 miles south of the A303 is the A31 passing north of Bournemouth and Poole. Similarly, it's a major trunk road to/from the west of England. It sees a bit more traffic on average, and is of a similar standard. However it sees congestion more regularly as there's more regular traffic and less tourist traffic. It is likewise terrible every summer Saturday, but - unlike Stonehenge - it's often struggling to cope with traffic at peak hours on winter weekdays too. They did some minor improvements on the A31, but never proposed any massive project to improve it, unlike the A303 at Stonehenge. The A303 could do with minor improvements to try and keep traffic flowing (the cheap and cheerful closure of the A344 was a big success - they do work on the A303!) - a bypass of the village just west of Stonehenge WHS, and some improvements at the Longburrow Roundabout (on the boundary) would sort it enough until the whole route from Taunton to Basingstoke is dual-carriageway as the issue is long-distance traffic on certain days, and an expensive and destructive Stonehenge tunnel would simply move that jam along to where the road narrows. The A31 sees more traffic turning off and so the bottlenecks to the west are less relevant for the jam in the area. If you are going to build a few miles of Expressway (dualled, grade-separated) on a Trunk Road linking to the SW from the M3, it makes far more sense to build it from Ringwood to Corfe Mullin, than a tunnel in the Stonehenge WHS. Cheaper (despite more junctions), and better traffic benefits.

[@rogerphelps9939]

Joins he A35 and then is crap.

[@techauthor324]

Doing nothing is not an option. In my opinion the problem is that there is no suitable route from the M4 to A303/A30 near Yeovil. The single lane section through the Blackdown Hills is nearly as bad as the A303 past Stonehenge. The M4/M5 interchange and crossing the Avon bridge is a nightmare and there is no other alternative. Public transport does not help the long distance traveller. Edit ... loving Rebecca's hair.

[@robertscriven602]

Public transport doesn't work in sparsely populated areas. There aren't enough potential passengers all wanting to go the same way at the same time to pay for the services

[@aengusmacnaughton1375]

Visited Stonehenge as a teen in 1977 with my dad while on a year break in Europe and the Middle East. You could park 1/4-mile from the henge and walk amongst the stones -- and as someone else note, sit on the stones and eat your lunch. There were other visitors, but it was not crowded. That was great -- but even I could recognize that the visitors would just increase, and at some point controlled access, extended parking -- and remote parking with shuttle buses, would need to play a part to preserve the henge. As well as the local landscape and other ancient earthworks. And all of that must factor in the local roads, existing public transport, parking, facilities (gas stations, convenience stores, hotels, restaurants, etc.) -- here in the US some state and national parks have been managed like this for access -- with protection of the sites -- without overloading the local infrastructure. And some have been an unmitigated disaster. I traveled the US with my parents in the late 1960's and early 1970's, camping in state and national parks -- rarely were they full, or needed long-term reservations. Not anymore! Oh -- they were free to get into back then also -- again, not anymore! But -- if it helps to throttle the influx of humanity, too much of which can have a detrimental impact, then it needs be done. What's interesting here is that the solution is more just for overloaded roadways, not really as a benefit for the Stonehenge WHO site. If that is the case -- then creating a new roadway. right-of-way, with enough capacity, but further away, and out of site of Stonehenge might be a better solution....

[@rogerphelps9939]

Actually it is a benefit. It makes tthe landscape a joined up whole uninterrupted by roads.

[@steverpcb]

The A303 will eventualy become all duel carageway, one of the biggest issues passing Stonehenge is driving rubbernecking which causes accidents :( The alternative to a tunnel or cut and cover is to put in a ha-ha, which would cost less but has not been looked into :( You will proobably need to look up ha-ha, the national trust has a page about these and the nearest one to look at is at Lacock Abbey.

[@DasCandler]

The biggest majority of the collisions occurred happened at the Longbarrow Roundabout (ITV News). You can't see stonehenge from there. I think a lot of it is just to push there agenda of a tunnel.

[@paulwhitehouse3690]

Wonderful presentation, great info, as a one time moonraker I am pleased to see a different approach and one that sounds a far better option, whilst brought up for the first 25 years of my life in Chippenham, I was actually born in Bath, only because at the time a caesarean section couldn't be performed locally. I recall a school trip to Stonehenge (+- late 1950's) we failed to successfully sacrifice anyone on the alter stone, so we just ran around the stones playing hide & seek. A class of fifty kids was quite something let out in this fashion! I recently visited the city of Bath and taking local advice not to try and drive into the city, I used public transport, what a pleasure, the stops at each end were clean had sufficient infrastructure for the scheduled doubledecker buses. Worked like a dream. More power to your elbow young man, and equally to the beautiful lady Rebecca.

[@moody_gordon8926]

As a local (quite literally born and raised in Amesbury) this whole tunnel ordeal has been interesting but also so disheartening at the same time. Highways England have done one or two pop up talks where you were able to ask them anything. Except they didn't actually take any of the feedback on board, rather just handed out leaflets and basically shoved you back out the door. The main thing everyone is campaigning for is the preservation of the archeology. In the current tunnel plans there's very limited to no archaeology scheduled in, rather it seems skimmed over. I think most residents would be less opposed if they actually took their time and allowed for a full scale dig before hand, ensuring nothing gets damaged/is damaged as little as possible. But the thing is it costs money, which the tunnel already costs enough as is so they won't do it. And public transport Holy moly We've been moaning for years about how crap it is I kid you not, there are 3 buses total that go through Amesbury The x4 goes from Salisbury to Larkhill The x5 goes from Salisbury to Swindon The activ8 goes from Salisbury to Andover. Oh and good luck finding a bus that actually turns up let alone on time It's horrific how bad it is. And SO expensive So for us student age kids who have to rely on the buses, it eats so much into our expenses. Hek to get to wilton from Amesbury, I have to catch two buses which takes over an hour, and again most of the time the buses don't even show up so it often takes longer. I'm lucky enough to be able to drive now, and I kid you not, it's just over 15 mins by car. Talking of trains I do just remember the railway housing that was there before they got torn down for a tesco to be built and there's quite a few places where you can see where the track used to run. My family and I do love visiting these areas, as they're quite overgrown now. We also have quite a few of the old town layout and railway line pictures which it's so interesting to see how basically everything has changed now. Amesbury as a whole is a bit of an odd one The infrastructure isnt very supportive of itself. There's more housing than ever, and another 180 or so homes have just been approved so housing isn't an issue. We have every fast food restaurant known to man in solstice Park. I actually think we have everything. But there's no work here. Like everything is out of town, so you need a way to travel to get there. Public transport is a no go, unless you're willing to pay the prices and on foot and cycling is risky plus everything is over 30 míns away or more on foot so good luck with that. No trains anymore or trams. You're quite literally left with cars. But even that isn't the best because everyone has to go by road so the roads are hectic, quite literally equivalent to Southampton amount of traffic. Luckily for me I go really early before rush hour. But whenever I hit it, everything takes twice as long. So to sum it all up I can't wait to move away Lmfao Hey I hear Italy sounds nice at this time of year...

[@carddamom188]

No too much heat and wild fires in Italy at this time of year, it is nice only if you want to melt or die of burnings...

[@moody_gordon8926]

@@carddamom188 well I suppose won't be much different to the wildfire on Salisbury plain atm. But hey if you're on the coast in Italy, just jump into the sea when it gets too hot 😂

[@johnmcdermott9516]

What's the Friar Tuck like nowadays?

[@carddamom188]

@@moody_gordon8926 The hidden secret of the Mediterranean is that its waters are also heavely poluted due to the cargo ships, luxuary ships and industries along its borders...

[@RJE48]

I have to make two points as a non local. There are two factors to consider... 1. The A303 is the only real option for travelling between London & the South East to the West Country, especially for heavy goods vehicles which have to stay on the main routes. Perhaps the tunnel portals could me relocated if there is any chance of effecting any archaeological sites of interest. I think this route should either be widened or tunnelled as it is such an important arterial route. 2. The A3 Hindhead Tunnel Project. This seems to be a similar problem to the one at Hindhead. Similarities include; - A dual carriageway into a single lane with awkward road junctions. - Long delays for residents and long distance travellers alike - Major arterial route from the London direction out to other areas of the UK - Through an area of natural beauty. I think a comparison between the two is in order with maybe a video, but also in the case of Hindhead they have closed the old A3 (still can be seen on Google Street View) and returned it to a natural habitat.

[@rogerphelps9939]

Yes. They could do it witth Hindhead so why not Stonehenge.

[@jagracershoestring609]

In 1998 it was still possible to travel at a steady 90mph past the Henge in late evening on one's way to Cornwall. In the seventies people did not seem to be so interested in stopping to look at some old stones.

[@mickmackay7]

(Just for some context- I currently live in Andover, however I lived in Amesbury 2010-2013 and 2015-2017, and i have worked in Amesbury since 2012). You’re spot on regarding the traffic, the lack of suitable, efficient local infrastructure, and the ‘solution’ of a tunnel that will just move the problems further down the 303. Initially I was pro-tunnel, but now i’m not so sure. The cost is a major factor for me. I’d be interested to know what £1.6bn spent on upgrading existing infrastructure would look like. I travelled down to Glastonbury last weekend and I saw that the 303 from Sparkford to Illchester is being upgraded to a duel carriageway. The 3 mile stretch is costing £100-250m (going off info from National Highways)…that’s a huge amount of money for what is a short section of upgraded road. Maybe that’s the plan - a gradual upgrade to dual carriageway over a number of years? But i’m with you - upgrading public transport links would be far more beneficial to local population.

[@hairyairey]

You'd be surprised how much is spent on road-building - and the maintenance costs of our roads is ridiculous compared to rail.

[@godfathery2kgaming324]

I remember when I got to spend time at Larkhill for work coming all the way from New Zealand not knowing anything about the area apart from Stonehenge existed, was amazed about the history of the area and walking around roads reading all the info signs. What shocked me was that there was such a busy road right next to Stonehenge.

[@davidcollins9512]

Yes, it always surprised me that they built Stonehenge so close to a busy road!

[@godfathery2kgaming324]

@@davidcollins9512 My under standing it was built there due to some old Roman road. So I guess the Romans liked riding past it.

[@MrGreatplum]

Great video - lots of questions. I still can’t work out why the tunnel just kept getting more and more expensive! As someone who used to use that road a lot to and from the West Country, it’s a section I loathe. I’ve never been to Stonehenge and I’d never want to go because of the queues near it! Others have said that a fence might be an idea to stop people looking at it - but, it would be a larger scar across a world heritage landscape. The idea of a tunnel appeals to me, possibly because of the improvement that occurred at Hindhead on the A3 - it would have to be bored rather than cut and cover though. Apart from the rubberneckers, the trouble is that the A303 goes repeatedly from D2 to S2 and back again which snarls up traffic. When I travelled down to Devon in May, I notice they are dualling a section further on (sparkford to podimore) and if they can sort out winterbourne Stoke and chicklade single carriageway sections, there’s not that many others left. Public transport infrastructure improvement is a must as well though. I’d love to see the return of motor rail to get more of the long distance / holiday traffic off the roads.

[@janicehassett4400]

Well said MrGreatplum! staga303.blogspot.com/2022/07/a303-dual-carriageway-heres-reason-why.html

[@MichaelSebastianTodd]

brilliant video and i agree improve public transport the best way to get to stonehenge by public transport get the train to Salisbury and get the guided but to stonehenge the bus starts at Salisbury station the only downfall is that its a tour bus but would be handy if a normal service bus ran to it

[@philipharris5201]

Driving east and coming unexpectedly on the view of Stonehenge was a Wow for me on the scale of the Matterhorn or a full on pink Florida sunset....Traffic problems should be sorted out without disturbing one of the few vistas we have left to be proud of...

[@Buckets41369]

I love how they consider the tunnel's impact on the site and not the acidic fumes and microplastics from cars on the road that will accelerate the weathering of the stones.

[@pwhitewick]

All counts!

[@rogerphelps9939]

All cars will soon be electric.

[@wagwanbennydj6003]

Here here I agree Paul!

[@highpath4776]

If you collect maps, alas I lost (long story) my collection of National Bus Company (included most other operators- notabled Safeway, Brutionian and Wakes of Sparkford !)), maps and timetables from the late 1970s/early 1980s which probably were close to a definative national design and scale. What was noticeable was the thin spider lines of bus services (and fewer rail - dont forget Southampton - Swindon and northwards rail had generally gone as had the S&D ) - compared to London where everything was dense and theoretically frequent, even in the Surrey border regions of Shepperton where now they too are rarer and more expensive. Buses were a rare thing , thoughinterurban mix of National Express (mostly ex Royal Blue Services) and longer joint operations connected Salisbury to Bath, Swindon, Bornemouth, and Salisbury had a modest network of town services, Bornemouth in Summer was well served in all directions , Weymouth slightly less so. Poole had a lesser town network, perhaps Blandford Forum was the largest of the Wilts and Dorset Operations, with Dorchester having the Bere Regis services often on market days to such places as Sherborne. Wincanton and Andover indeed for the size of locations were mere dots , with indeed Mere being one of the bottlenecks until by-passed , now it has reverted to a quiet viliage, even missing out on its heyday as yet anothe coaching changeover point in mail coach horse days

[@phillunn4691]

Thanks for another really interesting video. Stonehenge and the surrounding area is sssooo beautiful and I love it when I get to Stonehenge because I’m well on my way to Devon or Cornwall, by this point I have done the 1st hundred miles. Yes I totally agre, that another bottle neck would be pushed further down the 303 and join the other ones that bypass Ilminster as well. Thanks again Paul and Rebecca! I can’t wait until next Sunday, for your next video!👍🏼👍🏼

[@angelacraw2907]

I hear you and agree.

[@totoro123]

Bravely tackling the big and touchy issues…. Great video! Agree £1.6bn would be better invested in public transport.

[@chairmakerPete]

That sum would only buy a few miles of railway line, and then you're in the hands of the unions and the weather as to when it runs.

[@chrislewis8865]

I live in Andover and have driven that bit of road on many occasions and in differing traffic conditions. One thing that has ALWAYS been noticeable is that the traffic slows down IN BOTH DIRECTIONS when you get to a good viewing position for Stonehenge and then, when you are past a point about a hundred yards further down the road, it speeds up again. In other words part of the problem is people rubbernecking at Stonehenge as they drive past. I have always maintained that a start on fixing the problem - and a very 'green' one at that, would be to simply plant trees/hedges/vegetation that would obscure the view from the road of the monument then review the effect that has had on traffic flow. I'm fairly sure the result would be surprising.

[@rogerphelps9939]

No it doesn't. The only reason that traffic slows down is volume. Often it is the case that traffic is slow in only one direction. This happens at more than one point on the A303. just east of Mere is a case in point.

[@mikenorman2525]

Yes we should invest more in public transport in general but that would never solve the problem at Stonehenge. The A303 (aka Highway to the sun) is a major route to many destinations in the south west. To make even a small fraction of those destinations reachable via reasonably fast public transport (i.e. rail) would mean restoring/increasing capacity on the main lines, putting back dozens of branch lines and in fact building more. Based on the costs associated with the various studies undertaken under the "Restoring Your Railway" initiative it would cost hundreds of billions if not trillions to make a difference to the traffic on the A303 alone without even considering other congested roads around the country. Sadly that train left the station back in the 1960s.

[@orwellboy1958]

My thoughts exactly Mike, but you put it far better than I could have. 👍

[@althejazzman]

We all know that widening roads never solves congestion in the long term. Someone else did a video (I forget who) that proved that narrowing a road can even reduce congestion. This does though assume that there are alternative forms of transport which backs up your public transport support.

[@malcolmrichardson3881]

I agree! It does seem amazing that there is no readily accessible, regular public transport to this World Heritage site!

[@MaxTSanches]

Good points on public transport. It may be better to move the parking up to the main motorway, and put in a bus service to the site or even a small classic train service.

[@ironmantrains]

Great video, very informative and useful! A railway is definitely a better alternative, if there's a justification for a dual carriageway then surely there's a justification for a railway

[@chrisatye]

I really have to give you credit for shoehorning the sponsor details into this video without making me want to skip forward! Bravo, folks :-)

[@Edsbar]

I live very near to the M1 motorway's junction 28 and since living here the motorway has been widened to 4 lanes in each direction and now rather than the M1 getting gridlocked it is the local roads through towns and villages that suffer. Moving the problem is got solving the problem. Now another problem is that buses get stuck in the jams that cars cause so are slower than they ought to be.

[@wendarampton1888]

They originally started planning in 1985. The idea was to have the visitors centre at countess Rd roundabout. Close the road of then divert to the north

[@ned_10]

To me the simple answer is to dual the road and lowering ( or using the excavated soil to embank it), at Stonehenge so rubber-neckers don't slow the traffic up, much cheaper than a pointless tunnel.

[@rogerphelps9939]

Clearly you are a phillistine with no idea of the irreplaceability of a unique asset that must be preserved for future generations to study and enjoy.

[@oldfart6318]

Excellent. Wonderful expose of the supposed solution to the traffic problem at 7.0 onwards.

[@hoagy_ytfc]

1. Build a tunnel, though move the eastern portal a bit further away. I'd love to see the Waterloo/Exeter line doubled, but there's absolutely no way that a few billion is going to give the step-change in capacity that you need. I think the mistake here is to say "they're spending near 2 billion on a road". They're not. Dualling this section would normally be about the same cost as the currently-under-construction Sparkford/Podimore section. It's only because of the stones that more expensive techniques are required. So, much of the cost should be viewed as being spent on this ancient monument. And improving that by taking the traffic away is surely something we can all agree on?

[@TheSynthnut]

One of the less obvious issues with the building of the tunnel is the alteration of groundwater levels that is intrinsic with this type project. This will lead to the wholesale damage of many undiscovered or re-buried features. Once dewatered, many artifacts and features start to degrade, let alone the physical destruction of tunneling through one of the most significant historical sites in the world. We have a terrible "out of sight, out of mind" attitude towards issues and simply hiding it does nothing to improve the situation in my opinion. Increasing traffic flow is rarely the solution to congestion, it merely encorages greater use until it once again becomes an inconvenience and self-regulates.

[@rogerphelps9939]

The problem with that is that there is no spare capacity east of Basingstoke.

[@daveherbert6215]

Thanks

[@nigelmansfield3011]

I used to visit Stonehenge often on my way to or from boarding school as a child. You could walk around the stones without restriction in those days.

[@jimcarr8425]

Paul, you talk about the weekend traffic woes - it is 12:30 Monday Morning and the A303 outside my window is stationary east bound and this is happening most days now.

[@pwhitewick]

Yup. Completely agree. Summer holiday traffic has probably already started

[@jimcarr8425]

@@pwhitewick it's like it all year now :-(

[@briantinker7290]

Enjoying your work! Good points made, thoroughly agree with you. I love driving places (regular trips down the A303 to Lyme Regis) but hey, I used the train from Waterloo to Axminster once and what a beautiful trip it was too. I live near the M25 and have done since it opened. So bored with pointing out to anyone that will listen that constantly widening it solves nothing in the end, it just becomes used more with ever more traffic. investment in HS rail with local networks of light rail or trams are a much better long term option to allow us to move away from the car in a meaningful way. So, maybe an update required to this one, now the tunnel is back on (circa July 2023)?? All the best keep it up!

[@sspoonless]

I love the similarity of this video to the old Avengers TV show, with Patrick Whatshisname & Whatshername playing Mrs Peel.

[@johnhall6993]

Couldn't agree more about the need for public transport over roads. Beeching destroyed a great many railway lines here in East Anglia and the answer is never to "improve" the roads - as you said, all it does is move the congestion to somewhere else. Bring back the Haverhill to Cambridge railway!

[@nigelmansfield3011]

I am 72 years old. The A303 has had traffic problems during the summer months (mostly caravans on the way west) the Cornish call them 'emmets' (ants).

[@faithlesshound5621]

As a former resident of Wiltshire and Hampshire, I agree that public transport needs to be improved, or at least restored towards pre-Beeching levels. The lockdown taught us that we DON'T need the constant increase in work traffic, at least for white-collar work, much of which can be done remotely (at home) at less cost to the environment. Better use of the existing railway routes, and restoration of lifted tracks, could take up a lot of the leisure traffic.

[@richardmorgan9273]

In comparison to the tunnel, building Stonehenge looks like quite a straightforward civil engineering project!

[@RadWagon]

Massive thumbs up to your ideas here. We should be driving less, have better public transport, and not building more capacity.

[@Zharkov1969A]

When anybody says the answer is more or bigger roads then the question is wrong.

[@lastofthebrownies]

Some opinion: 1) why do costs inflate so severely? 2) government views building roads as investment in infrastructure but public transport spending as wasteful subsidy 3) the tunnel at Hindhead ultimately worked well, but this is because the entire A3 is dualled. The 303 is a long way from that. Similar thing happened with the A50 which was gradually dualled from the M1 to the edge of Stoke, causing huge tailbacks and encouraging a swift decision to drive a big dual carriageway through the middle of the city( improving the view, in this case!)

[@RobertSmith-zv1xo]

There isn't always one solution to a problem, if you can it a solution to a problem or rather a symptom. I hope they figure it out and adress the problem by also thinking outside the box that is the motorway.

[@handyandy6050]

A303 - Caravan Alley! Went on a school trip in 1970s, tunnel being talked about then!

[@charlesbryant5649]

Park and Ride just one option. We use them and get to sight-see the place where we are going from the bus/ tram and all stress free right to the destination.

[@R.-.]

I don't have an opinion about the route, but I do think a dual carriageway bypass is needed. It's worth it for the amount of people's time and pollution it saves from idling vehicles. When you're talking about grassland rather than forest I can't see what's wrong with cut and cover instead of expensive tunnel boring. The area will quickly recover from surrounding flora. I don't understand why roads are so expensive today. I remember about 30 years ago we had a bypass built for about £2million / mile. With inflation that shouldn't be more than £8million / mile today.

[@lindamccaughey6669]

Wow, can’t really comment not being there. Mind you a tunnel under Stonehenge doesn’t sound right. Thanks for the share. Please stay safe and take care

[@djcwey2402]

Great informative and unbiased video Paul. If the issue is solely about the provision of public transport to Stonehenge then Durdle Door and Lulworth (in Dorset) might be a case study. Until recently there was an irregular bus service. During the summer there are now FOUR different bus routes run by two operators. Damory buses operate the 30 Weymouth to Swanage (running every 2 hours) and 31 Wool Railway Station to Lulworth (hourly). First Bus operate the X54 Weymouth to Poole (running every two hours) and X52 Open Top from Bridport to Monkey World and the Tank Museum at Bovington (running every two hours on the alternate hour to the X54). All buses serve Wool Railway Station. With regard to archeology it is debatable what might not be discovered if excavation for road improvements did not take place - taking the example of discoveries on the Ridgeway made during the construction of the Weymouth Relief Road.

[@SuperBartles]

"prelevant" :) Sounds like a mixture of pertinent and relevant

[@pwhitewick]

I'm good at that

[@stonepail]

Constantly impressed by your excellent content, thank you

[@cjreeve79]

I never stopped cycling. Let's also build smooth cycleways between towns and cities on paths that are away from traffic. You know how popular the Bristol-Bath route is. The 12 mile journey is less than than an hour away on a bicycle and you don't need to wait to get to your destination to have fun. The cycle journey is much of the highlight. Oh, but not everyone can handle the hills you say. Get an electric bike then and enjoy travelling 16 leisurely miles in an hour.

[@Bellezzasolo]

Last year I cycled down to Stonehenge from London. Was actually trying to get home to Dorset, but a closed McDonald's at Solstice Park killed that! Because it was overnight, I actually did the last ~25 miles on the A303. The A30 would have been as direct, I actually went the other way on Sunday and used that instead, but it doesn't pass Stonehenge, and the café options are daytime only. The A303 would be hell to cycle on at most times, but at 3am, it wasn't so bad. Also worth noting I was testing out my new dynamo lights, so was a bit of a mobile Christmas tree with the backups... kzbin.info/www/bejne/g2mWaJeLjLyabKsh18m12s

[@rogerphelps9939]

On a cold we evening in February?

[@deanbrown29]

Think the problem is your not asking yourself how can the government give away more public money to their friends in form of bloated contracts for overpriced work.

[@dodgydruid]

Aha now I know where I have seen you, am often in Ankh Morpork's twin city, indeed my 3 wheel van is in the garage that was built right on the old S&D railway approach to Wincanton itself, I often look out for Wincanton's famous resident Sean Bean too and used to drink in the Millers Arms on a sunday with a meet up with like minded scooterlads flashing off our Vespa's and Lambrettas or in my case 3 wheel Reliant van hehe

[@pwhitewick]

Alas I have never been, although my sister often frequents the establishment being a yocal herself.

[@maxbee4460]

In some cases public transport has its place. But this is a terrible bottle neck and has been for years. The amount of money spent on consultations, reviews, what ever you want to call it, could have payed for the tunnel. There will always be nimbies, the village west of Stonehenge has been crying out for a solution. The A303 is a major route to the west, the only other option is the M4/M5. But it doesn’t end at a tunnel or what ever, the whole of the A303 and on to the A30 needs duelling to link with the duel carriageway east of Exeter. There was room to put a flyover at Amesbury, but no, they put traffic lights at the roundabout. A bundle of money was spent making the roundabout west of Stonehenge bigger. Non of this helps at all. My attitude is for crying out just get on with it.

[@antonioveritas]

As I understand it, there are too many government fingers in the pie...Highways England, National Trust, Historic England etc etc. Getting them all in one room and getting them to agree to something must be like trying to herd cats!

[@andyjdhurley]

I generally agree, increased public transport would only help local traffic and the majority of A303 traffic is on long distance journey to the west country. I use it myself whenever we want to go west as I consider it a much safer route than the monotinous M4 that just seems to want to send me to sleep. The view of Stonehenge is irrelevant once you have seen it once so I don't think drivers slowing for it are the biggest problem but if it is then block the view.

[@robertcoleman4861]

Another fine vid thanks paul & rebecca.

[@grahamsmith8091]

Totally agree with you. DO NOTHING is the best option. I would never use that road because of the queues that develop. Will always find a different route.

[@rogerphelps9939]

The locals will nott thank you for using heir villages as rat runs.

[@robertansell4538]

So true 👍 do nothing invest in public transport very good 👍 you both going good job 👏 👍 see 5 nextweek

[@craigk1328]

We walked from wood henge the same way as you did at the beginning of July. Shame we did not meet you.

[@TalesOfWar]

When Paul leaned down to pick up the camera I thought he was going to do a Geoff Marshall and lay on the ground haha!

[@pwhitewick]

Haha... very tempting!

[@grahamsmith8934]

Totally agree with everything you said. The rail line to Amsbury still exists, a shuttle service could operate to Andover. The West of England "main line" has lots of potential if it were to be re-doubled along it's entire lenght. Best video you've made for a while

[@LeeSmith-cf1vo]

There may be a case for doing something - making the road _narrower_ in other places. This might have the effect of persuading motorists to find an alternative route.

[@bigbluemeanie]

Indeed. Traffic evaporation through a combination of public transport and road capacity reduction is the solution. Widening the road will not "move the problem downstream" as Paul and Rebecca suggest, it will create a bigger problem (perhaps evident at the next roundabout or intersection) by inducing more traffic.

[@stepheneyles2198]

5:12 that photo on Historic England's webpage seems to have a slight problem! Fascinating video, I remember visiting on a school trip, we could walk among the stones then!

[@briangleeson1528]

Did you hear about the fire at the circus? It was "in-tents"! Hey-ooo!

[@jimcarr8425]

Some points: the land either side of theA303 through the WHS is already severely damaged due to its use as a WW1 airfield; the WHS is an arbitrary construct - the boundaries being major roads is no coincidence; EH and NT don't want anyone to have a free view of the stones.

[@davidrumming4734]

The cost of multiple investments in local rail + bus would likely be more costly than the tunnel…when you consider planning permission for each project, the legal costs of each project, the dev & building of each project (eg new bridges, infrastructure)….and even if you do all that, the likelihood hood is….the majority will still choose to travel by car. I would think about a bypass scheme to the south…to provide a direct uninterrupted east west route….likely involving a couple of flyovers to get over the other roads. On/off ramps for Stonehenge/local traffic, a bigger version of what can be seen to the east where the A303 intersects the A350

[@chairmakerPete]

Build the tunnel. In a few years, like Twyford Down and the excellent Newbury bypass, we'll wonder what all the fuss was about. McAlpine set the stones on concrete in the 1950s (they'd all fallen over). Stonehenge is a recreation of the original, so the place is already the subject of modern revision.

[@pauljones6509]

The remaining stones were mostly standing in the 1920/30s as seen in photos only a few needed to be re erected . there are stone circles around the country which have not been touched at all over 4000 years they never fell over. English Heritage managed to make things worse with their stupidity and now on the brim of the hill camper vans ruin the view.

[@davedave6404]

There is within the Department of Transport a bias in favour of roads over rail (Unions?). Was in the 60's, A34 on track bed quickly after closure for example, through to today with loads of re-openings delayed 20-30 years so that costs become prohibitive. Favoured contractors for road building, wiff of something here? Widespread opposition from motorists of course and big lobby groups long with 5 year cycles at Westminster. Recently East West rail 1995 -2022 still no route East of Bedford to Cambridge finalised. Original costs listed at £317m - now £5.6bn. Recently after all this time, Grant Shapps proposed that stages 2 and 3 would not happen. I am with you. If decent Public Transport was provided so we could get to coastal resorts or Stonehenge (say), most would use. BUT so much of the routes are sold off and built over (late 70-80's) that an almost impossible task. The flogging off to mates in construction and road building has happened under all flavours of government. I have spent many happy hours on the A303 in traffic so these days I do not bother anymore. Your video is an excellent contribution to the debate P & R, whilst at the same time making yet another excellent video to encourage further research for the inclined.

[@leightonsquibbs970]

Even made time to browse the books in the library ( telephone box ) at Haybridge.

[@timsimshurst]

Build a new two lane road to the north of Stonehenge. A five mile road would join up the dual carriageway sections. The current A303 could be used for west bound traffic and the new road for east bound traffic. I'm sure this would solve the problem and be relatively cheap as it would just involve another normal two lane road. It would pass just to the south of fargo wood to cause minimal environmental problems

[@johnmcdermott9516]

Useful to understand the reason A303 is dual until Stonehenge is to serve the armed forces transport to Bulford and Larkhill. After here it's tourism.

[@johnsamson-snell9558]

I agree! As Rob bell says in his introduction to “walking Britain’s lost railways” one time you used to be able to catch a train from anywhere to anywhere else. So now we have 8,000 miles of silent tracks just waiting to be awoken. No buses are not the answer as they use the same congested roads so here a pledge. If we invest in rebuilding Britain’s lost railways I will give up my car. But the railways have to come first. And don’t tell me that it would be impossible because a lot of the trackbed has been built over as that argument was quickly swept aside when pushing through that white elephant that is HS2.

[@danielholden-storey5107]

Sadly there is no political will in either major party to make the decisions needed.

[@mikeportjogger1]

Public transport is all very well if you are travelling light, on your own. The problems arise when you have a lot of gear and a whole family to transport, and the nearest PT access points are nowhere near the start or end of your journey.

[@richardtaylor3086]

Totally agree with you guys

[@cannedham8630]

I get you on the public transport, if any governments past or present had any foresight, then the main line from Reading down to the southwest would be fully electrified, quadrupled in places (where it Could)and speed increased all the way down to Plymouth. As we all know how busy the roads are in the south west. Plus utilising closed railways in the local areas around Wiltshire and Somerset would be a better alternative for people living down there rather than driving on the A303. However we live in the UK where politicians are just self serving and never put the needs of the people who put them in power at the forefront!

[@martynbuzzing3327]

Very interesting subject and maybe people should be more engaged. 🤔

[@mattclutterbuck9318]

The way to put a dual rd by the henge is to use the existing road bed and construct dual carigeway sections offsite cantelevering out over the verges. Brought in by truck this will not lmpinge on ancient grounds and do not need to be more than ten ft tall During the war they built the mulberry harbours like this which where a lot bigger than rd sections