Pyre and Responsibility | PostMesmeric

[@Laterose15]

I think one moment that stuck out in my playthrough is when I faced the Fate in a Liberation Rite. I'd picked Jodariel as my candidate, but after seeing the old dude who had tried for so long, I couldn't bring myself to win. Then the old guy sent his son in his place and the reveal came out that there were a limited number of Rites left. All I could think about was that I not only had I given up Jodariel's chance this rite, but I had permanently kept one more member of my team from ascending. It really made me feel the weight of responsibility.

[@warhawk638]

For much of the same reasons, Pyre has become my favorite game of all time. Highly underrated.

[@KoylTrane]

The first one I liberated was Jodariel, without understanding the consequences. All she had to say "Why me?" and only then I realized that I won't get to know her better, not on that playthrough.

[@bugjams]

I think the main concept of Pyre isn’t just responsibility, but realizing that responsibility =/= doing what’s right. You feel you have a responsibility to free as many as you can from YOUR team, but is that the best thing to do? What about the other teams? The story and characters teach you that being “Player 1” doesn’t mean you’re the hero. A gimmick that’s been done before, but never to this extent. In other games with a similar concept, it’s usually pretty shallow. Your hero or heroes do something that’s fundamentally evil, and you question your morals. Pretty cliche. But in Pyre, everyone who’s fighting in the Rights believes they’re doing what’s right - and not only do your party members act sort of sketchy at times, but other teams’ members act remorseful or even heroic. They feel human as much as your party members do. Oralech is who really ties it all together, of course. (Spoilers) Because of Oralech, you realize that your triumvirate betrayed him, and that Volfred’s ideals might not be what’s best. While it’s implied that Oralech’s betrayal is what caused the stars to start to fade, it’s also hinted at that it’s actually Volfred’s plan that’s causing the dismay, because his plan goes against the will of the scribes. By the way, Oralech’s theme is called ‘Will of the Scribes’, which suggests that he’s the actual hero - That he’s the one who’s right about everything. And Oralech’s will, aka the will of the scribes, is to defeat YOU. The developer himself said that ‘victory’ and ‘defeat’ should not be the words used to describe the outcomes of the Liberation Rite. Because someone always is victorious. Even if you lose, someone else gained their freedom - and whether or not you think they deserved it isn’t for you to decide. If the game’s lore is any testament to it, the scribes themselves control every battle, and therefore whoever wins is who was supposed to win. Of course, you’re really in control, but if the game just took over halfway through a battle to make you lose, that wouldn’t be any fun.

[@bethshepherd7389]

If I recall correctly, Volfred himself never betrayed Oralech. His team picked him to ascend, but at the last moment a team member pushed him off the mountain before he could ascend and jumped in herself, only to be destroyed because she broke the rules. The point of the game and of Volfred's quest is actually more like... there are some bad people in the Downside who probably deserve to be there, but also, as you and the video pointed out, a number of people who really deserved to go back up, probably around as much as the player characters. Volfred feels that a system that is designed to exclude people simply because they're unlucky and happened to face someone who was stronger, luckier, had special training maybe (ala Cassandra) and not really off of their own merits as human beings is, simply, broken, and needs to be fixed. He wants to bring about a revolution so that life can stop being an all or nothing scenario, where people are pitted against each other for their livelihood. The scribes believed in a lot of great things which you'll notice most of the player-controlled characters embody. The Chastity is supposed to be a team of humble philosophers, like Volfred, unlike Tinderstauf who currently represents the team. This theme runs throughout most of the teams, excluding ones like the Fate; Ignarius has a bad temper, the Dissidents are punks who don't stand for anything in particular, rather than standing up for unpopular but important beliefs, Tinderstauf is anything but humble or academic, Udmhilde believes in pseudoscience, the Essence don't care at all about repentance or the faith it requires, the Accusers are riddled with internal bias which prevents them from properly pursuing justice, etc. In other words, the Scribes ended up creating a flawed system that has slowly fallen to corruption into a mockery of itself. Volfred seeks to change the system and make his society a better place.

[@thepinkertons823]

For me, this feeling peaked in my first rite. Volfred told me that we had all the time in the world, so... I let the Fate win, thinking "oh, this will be nice for the old dog dad, he'll finally be able to get out of here". Of course, he sends his son then dies off, which I find out almost immediately and I was just stunned for a minute like... Well. Great. No good deed goes unpunished I guess. I let Tamitha win, too, after Pamitha begged me to. And then immediately after found out I was on a countdown against the stars. I know that time was luck, but it was just such a great way for the game to hammer home that this was all on me and my decisions. I also gave Oralech his freedom, too, so ended with 5 of the nightwings and my reader in Downside. Made for a bittersweet ending.

[@tomjack1000000]

One moment that changed me in pyre was when everyone got downside sickness. I had experienced it before with Jodierel but when I saw everyone getting it I got so concerned for their lives and safety. The one rite I lost initially I reversed because I loved them all too much, everyone who got sick was sent upwards. It's just a testament to how well written those characters and scenes are

[@grantwalker7124]

Great analysis, but something I want to get nitpicky about: At 5:39 you say Pamitha speaks up and says that she wants her sister to prevail, but she actually doesn't speak up. All of that was in her head. An ability that the Reader gains over the course of the game is the abilty to read other's thoughts. For me, prior to that, Pamitha was being a bit secretive with her thoughts, as she knew that the Reader has this ability, but when this occurred during the match against her sister it carried more weight because of that first ordeal when she closed off her thoughts to the Reader. I know that everyone played differently, played with different people more than others, and went down different dialogue paths, so maybe this didn't occur for you, or the ability that you gained wasn't very apparent to you while playing because one reason or another. Regardless, you've got a new supporter/subscriber. I'm looking forward to seeing more of your content.

[@PostMesmeric]

Pamitha is easily one of my favorite characters in the game, so I appreciate your insight toward her character and her relationship with the Reader. Thank you for subscribing. :)

[@blacxthornE]

Holy shit I can't believe I never saw this video before. Thank you, I can't believe I haven't seen the same comments about that rite from others. When I played Pyre immediately after release, this was the exact experience I had. That particular rite was the only rite I lost in my entire playthrough, and I know it's because even though I kinda tried winning, I really half-assed it because I felt bad for Pamitha. It's one of the best moments in video games I've ever experienced, because it made me do something for completely non-mechanic-related reasons. There was no morality gauge, no points to be won, no side quest, nothing. Just "hey, you can keep your perfect winning record and cause this burden to stay with Pamitha for the forseeable future, or you could just... throw the game for no other reason than to ease her pain." Such a powerful moment.

[@Linguz]

When I played through Pyre, I chose Pamitha to directly fight against Tamitha (one of them was getting freed). While I was winning against their team, the dialogue from Pamitha had me do what I never did again: I threw the game. I made the game close, because anything else would obviously be a throw, but I ended up letting Tamitha go up.

[@AO-vv3bo]

When playing, I too failed against the Essence in a Liberation Rite, with Pamitha on my team.

[@Zentagon]

Very interesting how Pyre approaches player responsibility, gotta give the devs props. Great video

[@PostMesmeric]

Zentagon Supergiant outdid themselves. :)

[@Toporshik]

I had just the same experience: the only liberation rite I have failed is with Tamitha. And I must say that I'm glad I failed it, because this seems to be the only happy outcome for Pamitha, where she can find some kind of peace in the ending.

[@tupuchandaa5192]

that was a great video ! thanks for making and sharing it :D

[@Radamor]

I suppose that's just one of the reasons why I think Supergiant made one of the best games of this year and certainly one that's closest to some kind of perfection when we look at their achievements 'till today. And, what's ofc saddening for me, game that will be probablt burried under tones of conservative titles. Probably that's one of the moments when craftsmanship becomes art. I wish Supergiant success now even more than I did before 'cause it's hard to tell what they can do now to improve their games (and I don't mean repairing some minor cons but changin' whole concept of next titles).

[@rubberbumm]

Brilliant brilliant analysis. Recently started playing it again an realized there is actually a lot of well designed feautured in this title.

[@yankeegmen90]

I'll have to watch more of this whenever I get Pyre, because I do want to play it. A shame, because I WANT to watch more, but don't want to ruin the game, regardless of whenever I buy it.

[@PostMesmeric]

Yeah, making a video that spoils the game is something I really hated doing. I don't want to ruin anyone's experience, which is why I worked so hard to make the Danganronpa video spoiler-free.

[@PerrydactylShow]

Really great vid Alex! I'm glad you're talking about this because it's a great feature of Pyre that's so interesting and fun. I had a feeling you were going to talk about the rite against the Essence at one point cuz that too caught me off guard, but I didn't lose. lol. Keep up the great work, my dude.

[@PostMesmeric]

It was a big moment. Had a lot of different emotions spiraling during that part. Thanks for watching, sir. Always appreciated. :)

[@claytonweaver7335]

Failing the Essence isn't what stuck with me. It was failing the final match for plot purposes

[@MoonSpiritChannel]

Very cool game, and great overview too. I might take a look at this game, though I'm scared of losing some characters that I might become invested in. Or as you say, take responsibility for you and their actions.

[@PostMesmeric]

It's a challenge to cope with losing characters, but I think that's what makes it so memorable. Give it a try. :)

[@magentamagenta184]

this made me want to re-play pyre

[@Alaric11]

Pyre was my goty but a country mile.

[@britneyspheres7yearsago11]

I lost 3 Liberation Rites playing on Hardest: - Against the Crones because I didn’t realize I had pyre health only for two dunks. I was really bothered about that one because I really wanted them not to resurrect the Elder God Yslach. Then, everyone kinda forgot about this in the story. I didn’t play Pyre for 2 days after that lol I felt so mad at myself for failing. - Against the Harpies same as the video creator. - Last liberation against SPOILERS the horned guy from the True Nightwings. At the end all of my anxiety around losing turned out to be okay. I worried for no reason, because the Bog Witch apparently didn’t resurrect Yslach and blew herself up in a swamp. Pamitha got her sister Tamitha freed. And the horned guy reconciled with his past seeing that I sacrificed my freedom as Reader to save all my friends’. So he gave me the freedom. Wanted to give it to someone else but he insisted. Even if you fail all the rites it’s not technically a bad ending. And even if you free most, all you achieve is a less bloody revolution. But then the harpies still attack I think. With the Harpies winning the war there is no more war. And I think Reading is not Forbidden anymore.

[@siddbastard]

I liberated them on purpose :)

[@TheDragonSeer]

Anyone know the game at 0:13 ?

[@PostMesmeric]

Catherine

[@RoseDragoness]

I love it but for some reason I feel cheated with the ending, even thought it has more story in it than transistor / bastion ending.

[@bugjams]

Amethyst Orchard Yeah, the fact the revolution happens whether or not your liberated allies succeeded or not is kind of annoying. I wish they had written a slightly different ending for every % of success rate you ended at. And it sucks that it can still technically fail at 90%+, the illusion of chance is kind of a bad decision, I think. I think they could’ve made it so that the revolution succeeded no matter what you did, but just in a different way. Maybe if you liberated certain enemies, they would’ve joined your cause in the Commonwealth. Like if you freed that Demon (I forgot his name, not Oralech, the one with the Elvis-looking hair), he helped you take a stand against the Commonwealth, because his motives were good. If you freed someone like Manny or that god-fearing bog crone (not the one you ally with), they could see what’s stirring in the Commonwealth and use their influence to persuade people into starting a revolution - even if their motives were just to further their own goals.

[@Megumi646]

I let Tamitha win because I felt bad for Pamitha.

[@cristal_spark]

You cared more about the wins than about the wishes of your characters/exales. If you cared more about your characters, you would have let Tamitha win willingly. As it was the wish of Pamitha. Hedwyn would have understood. He may win some other match. You are their leader, you need to make decisions that are in their interests, not in yours. They don´t care about a perfect score.