Q&A lithium batteries on a sailboat: environmental impact, Victron comparison, price drop, etc...

[@sailingrubyrose]

Really well thought out and interesting series on lithium, thankyou so much Ryan!

[@phiberoptick]

I really like the technical side of what goes in to boat systems, Ryan is well spoken and easy to understand.

[@randalljames1]

A man of many hats... not sure where the Tiarra comes in but you come across great as a teacher.. great series of videos..

[@alphasails2]

Great job on lithium batteries usage and maintenance. Went to the Dakota web site and checked out the goods. Great customer service with emailed questions and fast replies. Thanks again.

[@stevenuk]

Ryan, you are very good at technical description and explanation.

[@RyanSophieSailing]

Thanks Steven! I take all the credit... sophie helps a lot as well. Ryan

[@stevenuk]

@@RyanSophieSailing 😂

[@HopeOfJoe]

Certainly learned even more from this episode, Ryan. Thank you, thank you. Will get the book you referenced. Big HELLO to Sophie !!

[@johnmoser1162]

Re the question to wind generator and solar panels. The issue is if the boat rolls you basically have small charge/decharge pulses on the battery. Whether you have li or pb batteries, it's not nice. I have supercap buffer (only ca. 12V/1Ah) in between so that only if the supercap buffer is depleted the battery is online. On windy resp. sunny days you can basically run off the supercap buffer.

[@tip0019]

This guy used to be shy of the camera 😎

[@kauevideomaker811]

Guys, quick obs: your link to the patreon page is not working... I guess it is missing a "sailing" at the end of the url. The video is really good! Ryan makes it sound easy, good didactics :)

[@bill4nier]

Ok, my brain just gave me an error message: Circuit Overload! 😉😄 Thanks for sharing. 👍👍👍👍👍😊⛵⛵⛵⛵⛵⛵

[@kjelpeterson5236]

Great job Ryan

[@kaskl5403]

Very informative, can't wait to see all your project videos.

[@clayfarnet970]

Please mimic a brown out more often. Very informative and definitely entertaining. 😜✌️👍

[@Sciolist]

Thank you for your answering my question ☺️

[@peterstarkey1360]

Once again.... BRILLIANT

[@dzhiurgis]

Price drop forecasted 2021-22 - it's when is going to be economically sensible to use in homes.

[@SailingABSea]

Interesting, thanks for sharing.

[@JCAJCA3]

Very well done! GOD bless. JC

[@cyclomaniac9086]

Great series, thanks

[@richardhanson2235]

Tons of good info.

[@davevaughn6293]

Thanks so much really interesting video !!!

[@fk8marko774]

Ryan I've seen new information on Lithium Metal Batteries, is there any information you could share with the community on these and what the benefits of such batteries would be?

[@msears101]

Tesla uses NCA - LiNiCoAlO2 not NMC. Tesla/Panasonic also have new chemistry to remove Cobalt.

[@danf3607]

I believe China is the largest ‘refiner’ of Lithium. Most of the Lithium China refines is sourced from Australia.

[@robertkowalski9906]

Did you put four, one seventy ahr batteries or four, one hundred ahr batteries on? I wasn't to clear on that. But what I really want to know is have you done any over night passages since, and do you have to charge after running your instruments, lights, fridge, freezer, and auto pilot, with the engine or are you making it through the night and your solar catches you back up before the next dark (two hair drives and curling iron;-)? On courage my last love, I had three hundred ahr and found I'd have to turn off things like running lights and chart plotter to make it through the night. But that was a thirty-two foot boat, and now I have a thirteen m boat and your required to have silly things like radar and a radio on all the time (like thats gonna happen,) I'm thinking four hundred amps is just not enough but then again what do I know. It's been three years since you've done the work and I'm wondering in practice how's it working for you. Now if you've done a review could you direct me to that. Also some reference material you and some of your followers might not be aware of, Ganz has a good spread sheet for determining your loads and Victron has and excellent pfd on wiring that has formulas and schematics for battery systems. I got them years ago so I don't have a link, but can send you copies if you'd like. thanks bob

[@Sailinglutris]

Thanks for the answers thus far! I'm sure more questions will roll in. I'm wondering about the charging limitations of these Dakota Lithiums in particular. It was my understanding that one of the advantages of LiFePo batteries was that they could take nearly unlimited charge current, right on up through 1xC (their stated capacity / time) and even discharge at the same rate. The boat sized batteries I find on the Dakota site are listed at 170AH, so I would think that I could charge at that rate (170A per hour) or even higher. Is the limitation something in the integrated BMS that limits the rate to the listed max of 50A? Also is that 50A listed per battery in parallel or for the system since there are separate BMSs per battery? I very often dump 160A into my existing Northstar Carbon SLA.

[@RyanSophieSailing]

Hi Lutris. The 50Amps is a limitation of the BMS. The chemistry could support more but how the electronics are designed 50 is the max. This would be 50 for each battery in Parallel... thus for 4 batteries you could put 200 amps. Ryan

[@jrremerable]

So are you saying 4 batteries are good for a boat then? Seriously looking at Dakota, cause I consider em local, and gotta support the local boys.

[@edwardwerthner7717]

Is there anyway to set an alarm on a lithium bat for overheat n or fire Great tech thx

[@simonhantler8062]

great info ryan. where are dakota lithium manufactured?

[@mozismobile]

Lithium isn't a rare earth metal - it's a very common one. And it's light. It's the lightest metal (even astronomers agree!) Also, lithium batteries are cheaper per kWh you get out of them - more cost up front but cheaper to much cheaper over time.

[@howardwhite9773]

How much of your house load is for 12V DC units vs. 110V AC / 220V AC [ 50 | 60 ] cycles... I have not tried to shop for 48V DC lights (for example).

[@AdEtLilim]

Great video! BTW Where can I find your podcasts on aviation-inspired Safety Management in Sailing?

[@RyanSophieSailing]

Check out 59north sailing. The podcast is called "how i think about sailing" ryan

[@AdEtLilim]

@@RyanSophieSailing thanks! And since you asked for additional questions, one came to my mind: Are there saefety issues when all batteries are charged, and power still comes through, e.g. solar panels? How is managed the extra power? Bon vent à tous les deux :)

[@RyanSophieSailing]

If using solar you should have an mppt capable of selecting lithium batteries so in theory this should not he an issue. If the mppt fails it could be a problem but then the BMS should be able to cut it off. Hope this helps

[@mlg779]

I do not like this way of building a battery bank. Just buy individual 3.2V batteries and build the whole thing from scratch. I use the BMS just to monitor the batteries and not to limit the current. The inverter calculates when the batterie is full or the voltage of the batteries. I have a 48V 600AH battery so I do not have to worry how much I pull. Actually the Inverter can only pull 8000W (150AH).

[@donaldklarich9046]

Go look at the KZbin channel "the space between" and see what he did with old chevy volt batteries.

[@ronniebarrow752]

Well said

[@stigarnersnes7072]

Is it possible to extinguish a fire in these batteries if the electronics fail?

[@lyfandeth]

LiFePO4 can be extinguished with conventional means. All the other "lithium" batteries have a petroleum-based electrolyte and actually generate oxygen while they burn, requiring a $pecial Class-D extinguisher and very hard to do more than contain them as they burn out.

[@tartansailor]

Ryan, Have you looked at the Victron video about charging Lithium with the engine alternator, FYI: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oJjSeqKZhcyCq8k

[@hal4k]

I was wondering if it is viable to go all electric on a sailboat, meaning using a electrical motor rather that a diesel?

[@RyanSophieSailing]

Hi Ricky, In fact there are a number of sail boats around the world which have done this. I looked in to it right when we bought our boat but i have decided (for a number of reasons) to hold off. I personally believe a lot of boats will be electric in the near future. - Ryan (you can check out oceanvolt for a few examples)

[@roderikvanl]

Great vid, but quite a bit off on the comments regarding lithium from China and cobalt from Congo... Also there is no war going on in the DRC, not since almost ten years... Get the facts or just say you don't know...

[@RyanSophieSailing]

Hi roderikvanl. Thanks for your comments however i can assure you my facts are correct as i dont normaly comment on something unless i am sure. In fact less than 12 months ago i sat in a room with the men and woman running the UNited Nations mission in the DRC. I have seen the videos and pictures. If you do feel i have made an error please let me know where the majority of lithium is coming from and if not congo the cobalt? It is true that the lithium can come from other places, it was first discovered in sweden however the majority of it is coming from china. Ryan

[@roderikvanl]

​@@RyanSophieSailingHi Ryan, on the 'facts', try typing 'lithium production per country' in Google and you will see that China is not even mentioned in top three.... For cobalt, yes the DRC is the largest miner, however, about 1/3 of global mined supply comes from outside of the DRC. And yes, MONUSCO does have feet on the ground, though this doesn't mean there is a war going on right now. I work in a mine in the DRC and trust me, i wouldn't be here is they were at war....

[@nicholasthon973]

Don’t crash your boat on the rocks if you’re using Tesla batteries. Otherwise you’re fine.

[@DCGULL01]

Ryan, You Devil! Total downplay on just how much capacity you added, eh? My math sez: (2) 140AH AGM batteries= 280AH- which you can only use 50%, or 140AH. Replaced with (4) LiFePO4 170AH batteries= 680AH which you can only use 100%, or 680AH? Now, by the time you replaced those cruddy, heavy AGM's, I'm guessing that you had about 70AHs on your very best day. However, you were 'surviving' albeit with relationship issues I'm sure. $6,200.00 ain't no small drop in replacement, bro! And, a 10 fold increase in available POWAH ain't no simple swap, bro! Don't ax me how I know, but- methinks you over simplified the cost/complexity of this AGM/LiFePO4 swap. The Gods responded by letting you live while you drilled through a nice copper wire! No questions and VERY GOOD job covering the topic. It could've gotten messy!

[@dzhiurgis]

So many inaccuracies...

[@CheersWarren]

I can certainly see the longterm cost advantage. How does it compare if you are not running the batteries down , i.e. Keep charged with an engine ( like a trawler) and then plug in or have solar to keep topped up? Does that make lead acid more economical? Cheers Warren