Q-JET VS THE WORLD!! PONTIAC 400 CARB SHOOTOUT 2-BARREL VS Q-JET VS QUICK FUEL 750 (THE OTHER GUYS!)

[@1967davethewave]

This is the exact engine I first raced with way back in 1983 at the tender age of 16. My 69 GTO was all stock except a set of Black Jack headers. It managed a best of 14.62 at around 96 mph back then. Today it runs 11's with an aluminum headed 455. And yes, it's the same car and it has outlasted 2 marriages and a lot of other life over the last 39 years.

[@simbanugz2906]

awesome

[@billywilliams6853]

GTO before Bitches

[@jamessharp9790]

That’s awesome!

[@GIGABACHI]

I don't know at what to be more impressed: The fact that you still have the same car from back then OR that any of your previous marital partners didn't walk away with it or made you sell it to pay them. Boy, you're a lucky one.

[@jamessharp9790]

@@GIGABACHI I lost my 1980 Honda Cr250R in divorce. Was my favorite vintage Mx bike . It wasn’t worth staying to keep it though. But it is impressive that he’s kept that car all this time

[@richardhooper7323]

It's nice to see a huge amount of Pontiac fans out there. I have 400 stroked to 461 ci with 85cc Kaufman racing equipment aluminum heads and a 274 extreme energy competition cam and the Qjet jet is still the best dang carburetor out there.

[@jeffie8696]

When I learned carb rebuilding in college I found the Qjet to be a fascinating and sophisticated design , highest respect for them since

[@darrininverarity4297]

The are the best and the most fun with it’s loud induction sound.

[@jimclarke1108]

After i pulled down my Qjet i bought a Holley 650 sb vs, never looked back

[@dukeallen432]

@jim: your wasting fuel and running like crap. Don’t be scared of qjets, go buy book and learn.

[@joequillun7790]

@@jimclarke1108 Ahh, lets see, 650 CFMs, vs. 750 CFM (QJ). Sure, I can see a 400 Poncho benefiting from a 100 cfm loss. (Not). Holleys have their benefits, in the right application.

[@thereluctantgearhead4544]

The first engine I ever built was a 67 400 Pontiac. Ran Pontiac engines for years, but they got expensive as time went by. I used to buy complete 455s for $50 bucks. Bought a 71 Gran Safari wagon with a 455/T400 and a big ole fat 4 core radiator. Paid $75 bucks for the whole car and drove it home. Built the 455 for a 67 Firebird I owned. Sold the car minus engine/trans/radiator for $150 bucks. I've ran in the mid 10s with Pontiac engines with production based modified iron heads. They definitely have potential. I have a 63 SD 421 Catalina tucked away now I'm gonna build one day.

[@TheNumbers400]

Great to see a Pontiac on the channel. I would appreciate to see more of them.

[@fulltimber]

Throughout the late 70's and 80's here in Australia, quadrajets were used on nearly all Holden and Chev group C touring cars before the arrival of fuel injection. Anyone can bolt on a Holley, ( because they are dumb) , not everyone has the patience to tune a Rochester Quadrajet to the application, and when it's done right, the results are so rewarding.

[@ldnwholesale8552]

The GpA cars made surprising power on Q jets and were reliable. Though I doubt that air flap was ever closed doing so!! And no starvation problems so maybe the bowls are ok. And I feel they used factory fuel pumps as well.

[@genehart261]

The "bolt-on a Holley" guys just never wanted to take the effort to work with and learn about the Q-jet; a vastly superior carburetor.

[@bunky060171]

Love this - brings me home to my high school roots in the mid 1980's. Dad had a '64 Bonneville 389, '69 Catalina 428, I had a 72 and 74 Catalina 400/2 bbl, and a 77 Bonneville 400/4. All fantastic cars with very understressed engines. Can still probably rebuild a 2G in my sleep. As for the actual cars with true Poncho under hood, the last one sold in 1990. The simplicity of my dad handing me a screwdriver, vacuum gauge, timing light, and Chilton book with an encouraging "go figure it out" is a treasured part of my history. Thank you so much for sharing this cool slice of history!

[@scrappy7571]

Q-jet, best ever street carb.

[@adammcilmoyl4278]

I've always said the Qjet can hang with any of the similar sized "performance" carbs like a Holley or QF. They're the best street performance carb out there IMO. The only downside to the Qjet is the small fuel bowl capacity, it's easy for a thirsty big engine to run it dry on a hard pass at the track. It's still the best street carb out there tho IMO. Same performance as any comparable Holley, but generally better street manners and a little better mileage too

[@taylorsrus9543]

If it wasnt a low power engine it would be different. Same as pretty much any other part. Build a stock motor, use a stock carb.

[@adammcilmoyl4278]

@@taylorsrus9543 there's lots of Qjets on cars in the 11s and 12s, some even in the 9s and 10s. They're a much more capable carb than people give them credit for. They're not a racing carb tho, I will give you that. As far as how much power they can support tho, they're as capable as any comparably sized 4150.

[@benkrom2737]

I ran into that fuel bowl problem and it disappeared when I installed a electric fuel pump. I believe 6psi was recommended but I had it set at 8 psi. This was back in the late 60s-70s when most people didn't use electric fuel pumps. I used ignition hot instead of oil pressure sensor to run pump. Not as safe but never had engine cut out again.

[@erandy0240]

I hate how small the fuel bowl is. A warm day after a long drive will evaporate the bowl dry

[@adammcilmoyl4278]

@@erandy0240 yeah that's really my only complaint about the carb, the tiny fuel bowl.

[@edwardseaton4492]

Love this channel. Carbs, and cast iron, and dynos. It's pretty much all I want to watch...ever.

[@robertwest3093]

The best thing a GM guy can do is learn to tune the Quadrajet carburetor. It's the best performance/economy option next to TPI fuel injection. Yes, you can tune the Qjet that close with the right equipment!

[@58sportsuburban]

I noticed that the bolt from the water pump to the intake is missing. You’re supposed to loosely install the intake bolts, then use that bolt to draw the intake forward, and tighten the intake bolts.

[@richardholdener1727]

it sealed without it

[@gristlepounder]

Been a Pontiac guy for a long time. Had some cool cars, some stock and some modified and a Pro Street car with 700 HP 455. The 2bbl test is shocking! Made me think of something I had not thought of in years. Had a '79 GP as a daily driver with a 301. Had a 2bbl and was an absolute turd. Was supposed to be Pontiac's economy V8. No power and crappy gas mileage. Timing chain went out and had to replace. Thought long as I had it apart I would change to a 4 bbl. It woke the motor up big time. It could not spin the tires at all previously and now could at will. Re-curved the dist and put better exhaust on and was actually a fun car to drive. Got better mileage as well. So I can totally believe the test between the two.

[@jaydubb71]

Love QJets. My old 82 Monte Carlo had a 70 4 bolt main 350 in it with a 2 bbl carb. I found an aluminum QJet intake, put a big block QJet on it, fiddled with the metering rods, loosened the air door and ran it. QJet woke it up! I had to fiddle with the air door tension a little bit due to a massive bog when the air doors opened. Once that was done, she ran GREAT! IMO, the QJet is the best street carb ever. I've even seen on in a blow thru turbo setup. Twin GN turbo 360 in a 68 Cuda. Banks marine carb hat and boost referenced water injection. Ran low 10s. This was back in the late 90s/early 2000s. No idea where that car or the owner is now...

[@billk9628]

There was a time I could tune a Q Jet to out perform basically any other carb! I had the books, what jets to use with what engine set up. Pound for pound, Q jet is the best carb out there! My 1985 Regal got 24mpg with a 350 olds, and 200r4 with 2/73 gears. I miss that car almost as my as I miss my LS1 powered Rx7! 🙂

[@mb-fs1yo]

Love the Qjet, do agree small fuel bowl a problem. Would like an aftermarket to build new ones in 900-1100 cfm with expanded fuel bowls, maybe dual fuel inlets.

[@adammcilmoyl4278]

That's kind of what the Thermoquad was. It wasn't intended to be an OEM Mopar carb, that just sorta happened. The Thermoquad was actually designed as a high perf replacement for the Qjet, and wad intended to solve the small fuel bowl problem, one by having larger "dual" bowls with 2 floats, but it also had the plastic fuel bowl that was intended to help with the heat soak problem the Qjet had too. The Qjets tiny central fuel bowl would often get heat soaked after shutting it off hot and cause difficult hot restarts. The Thermoquad design was intended to correct some of the issues it had, and to a point it did work. It never really seemed to catch on as a performance upgrade tho, so it likely would have died off if Mopar hadn't decided to adopt it as an OEM carb for the 340 and later for basically all their V8s. The original, pre-Mopar Thermoquad was available in a 1000cfm version tho, but it wasn't a very streetable carb.

[@davelowets]

​@@adammcilmoyl4278 Just about every thermoquad out there is warped to shit because of the plastic body. They didn't work out real well in the long run

[@johngrein3325]

Always loved working on quads especially the early. Worked on the Quad design team at Rochester Products until they sold the carb business to Weber. The BOC and CPC guys always laughed when I told them I live in Holley NY.

[@benkrom2737]

Never had a problem with Qjet carbs including the Carter Qjet. Got awesome fuel mileage on highway through the tiny primaries. Better mileage than the 2bbl carbs. Qjet has a tendency to leak from plugs in pathways so I always epoxy the plugs. Also make sure secondaries open all the way. Pontiac used to restrict them on firebirds so they didn't have same power as a GTO.

[@SweatyFatGuy]

I remove the main well plugs, tap the holes with a bottom tap, and make a plug out of a bolt by cutting it off and putting a slot in it. Then I epoxy that into the main well. They never leak again. I usually remove the primary throttle shaft and install bushings because the steel shafts tend to wear out the aluminum bores. Then they idle nice. I do that on both gas and E85 Qjets I build. I love Qjets.

[@richardholdener1727]

e85 blow through q jet would be cool

[@benkrom2737]

@@richardholdener1727 Back in the day I had a 68 firebird RAII I believe it's identical to the RA IV 4spd 3.90 gears top butterflies were connected to the needles for the secondary jetting and vacuum activated or should I say vacuum kept them from activating. I blocked off vacuum and secondaries opened just off idle OMG what a difference. That car had over 200k on it when I sold it in 1980. I thought when they took lead out of gas it was going to be the end of the world. I cleaned up the combustion chambers in my 2 stroke bikes and my car ran fine, unleaded had far more pluses to it than thought. I learned never slam the hood of a car that has a hood tach. Car would run fine till you got on it and would breakup. Went through everything till I disconnected tach them engine was good to go. I still miss that car and it was a pontiac so you can probably guess the color 😅

[@SweatyFatGuy]

@@richardholdener1727 if you could manage to get enough fuel into the bowl, that would be the only problem. I drill the inlets to .152" and reseat them with a check ball from a transmission just to get enough fuel in on E85. Maybe 4 to 7 psi would be ok, but more than that and the inlet is the restriction. Draw through could possibly work a lot better, but you're still limited on how much fuel you can get in the bowl. Having to keep adding more fuel under boost because of the O2 content in ethanol compounds it quick. Maybe mill the front off and graft on a completely different float system with two inlets...but at that point why not just use a Holley or EFI? When I throw turbos at one of my Pontiac engines it will be a blow through Holley or EFI. I'm working on an EFI system from used parts for my engines, so much cool stuff out there, like LS coil packs, 460 Ford crank triggers, all sorts of throttle bodies. Right now a 6.0 swap in a GMC 4x4 and a tunnel ram 505 Pontiac are the big projects. Crocie used blow through Qjets, but that was on gasoline with small turbos, they didn't go up to 14psi or anything if I remember right. I have a 65 vintage 326 I don't care about and some 350s.. wouldn't be that hard to put a GT45 on one of them and see how the Qjet works with my mods. The question is when would I get to it? The second or third coming might beat me to it.

[@user-cl6dz7tw4o]

Ben, can you circle the plugs you are referring to in a diagram? I think I may be experiencing this issue.

[@christopherc3017]

Had the pleasure being taught the value in the quadrajets by a Chevy mechanic 30 years ago. Never got to dyno any of the cars but I’ve had several of the 70’s olds 350 that I swapped from two to four and would be competitive racing the motors with a properly tuned 4 barrel q-jet. Growing up the same people calling them quadrajunk would also say fuel injection was hard to work on.

[@garybulwinkle82]

Swapped a Holley from a Worthlester and my mileage went from 10mpg to 16mpg! The Holley's were easier to work on and tune! Quadrajets you had to go to the dealerships to get tuning parts and most of those guys are A-holes besides charging too much!!!

[@christopherc3017]

@@garybulwinkle82 used to be that way for me until I was shown how to work on the q-jet. Still love the simplicity of Holley carbs.

[@littlebearish]

Always loved the Q-Jet carbs. I had an old Chevy with a 305 that had a 750 Q-Jet on it. I rebuilt the carb as it was Way overdue for it and that car ran like a dream. It could be 100+ or -0 and one pump of the accelerator pedal and she would light off and run flawlessly. I'd turn the air filter lid upside down and drive through town mashing the pedal just to hear those massive secondaries. Always loved that sound 🤣

[@elmerfudpucker3204]

Love this old school stuff!! Those are good numbers with basically a stocker and flat tops.

[@joequillun7790]

Nothing unexpected going on here, but nice to see the numbers. It would be interesting Rich, to stick a tri-power on that same motor, and compare it to the Q-j. Not sure if you've done that yet. As for putting a QJ on an "old" worn out motor, that's run its life on a 2 bub. You can be guaranteed of spun brgs, (if you beat on it). At least that's what I've experienced yrs ago, on multiple different engs. Thanx for posting.

[@brianmiller1149]

Good memories. I had a 68 442 with a 455. I ran the good ole Quadra Flush on it. Worked well. Keep up the awesome work!

[@butchcassidy3373]

I out ran a bunch of Holley 3310s at the dirt track with a QJet. Only problem was sometimes when the secondaries came in it would upset the car. But boy she would scream.

[@billboyle7866]

Very, very mild cam in this 400. Not surprised that the Q-jet and QF were essentially the same. 62 heads should have given 10:1 compression yet I wonder what pistons were in the engine.

[@dukeallen432]

Quadrajets all the way. Have shelf full of edelbrock and Holley I’ve pulled off of cars. Good power. Not hacked linkage. Only way to go. And factory exhaust manifolds.

[@GlennLittleford]

350SBC, Victor Jn manifold, headers, mild cam and head work. I've run various Holleys and was never happy with them, flat spots, poor fuel consumption. Couple years ago I fitted a Quadrajet and adapter, and its perfect! 15:1 on the highway, perfect mixture on the dyno across the range, 400hp, very responsive, and no flat spots. I've sold all my Holley gear.

[@richardholdener1727]

ALL HOLLEYS ARE NOT BAD, ALL Q-JETS ARE NOT GOOD (AND VICE VERSA)

[@LyndenMcconnell]

Have had several 400 GTOs with 4barrel Qjets. Fantastic carbif setup right. Won alot of street races against lots of larger engines.

[@ug9191]

How much power did the Holley lose having to flow around the Qjet opening in the intake?

[@thetriode]

Quads are fun and awesome. They run a lot better than many give credit for. I mean if you consider they used them on anything from a Buick 4.1L V6 or a 4.3L V6 Chevy to a 454 like the LS5 they are incredibly versatile. That "instant gasket" is a knockoff. Every self respecting mechanic knows that you're supposed to use a grocery bag or a cereal box for a gasket. :D 7 inches of vacuum on the 2BBL? WOW. It's done, stick a fork in it. It seems like even a mildly modified 350 would be at the limits of the stock 2G. With the new 350 coming in the stable I think we'll get to see. I'm betting it's induction crippled even on that stock 350P. I'd rather have the 4bbl because the primaries on a quad are smaller than a 2bbl that tries to have some power and economy and does both not as well. I guess that's why you use 3 of them instead of a single.

[@patlandymore7035]

Absolutely loved this content!! My last experience with Pontiac engines was about 35 spins around the sun ago…a 350 Pontiac powered 1977 Bluebird/Firebird. I was quite impressed with the torque! Keep going with the other guys Richard, whatever form they take. 🍺🍺

[@dogprowilhelm7630]

Great video. Had a 72' Pontiac Firebird 400CID, 10bolt posi, swapped the 2 barrel carb and stock intake for an Offenhowser 4 barrel intake, a 750 Holley 4 barrel carb and headers. With side pipes running air/ fuel rich, would shoot flames after heavy acceleration and ran 13.9's in a quarter mile all day long.

[@corvettejohn4507]

Carb adapter robs power from the Quick fuel carb because airlow does not have a smooth transition into the intake holes. Airflow hits flat surface with holes without a tapered transition. That creates turbulence and pressure drop on entry into intake manifold holes.

[@screaminchicken6168]

Love that you are tinkering with Pontiac engines, there are so few current builders, and tuners that even bother with them. But, between Cliff Ruggles with Cliffs high performance and Quadrajet Power there really isn't a reason to bother with aftermarket carbs. My QJ blow everything else out of the water with their help and offer an amazing amount of flexibility. Including being able to run E85. It's nice having one for 93 and one for E85 that can simply be swapped out in under 5 minutes.

[@davelowets]

The fuel bowl is WAY too small on a Q-Jet to be running E-85 on anything with more than a few hundred horse. I've been in the low 10s in the quarter with a q-jet on gasoline, but that's getting real close to the point of running out of fuel bowl. You can't just turn up the pressure either, because you'll end up blowing past the needle and seat. Don't get me wrong, a q-jet is a GREAT street carb. The small primaries and triple booster design make for great MPGs and throttle response, but for a drag racing application they suck. They are a complicated carb, with limited tuning parts available, and they are not friendly to make quick jet changes and adjustments to in the pits at the track. The tiny fuel bowl is a HUGE issue also when trying to make big power, ESPECIALLY on E-85.

[@screaminchicken6168]

​@davelowets you have your opinions, others as well as myself have made them work without issue. They are also one of the most widely supported and available carbs out there, used units are $50, and parts are everywhere. I've got enough to last 300 years or more 😂

[@captainmanic1959]

The Q Jet primary side is going to be more fuel efficient at cruise and have better throttle response than any two barrel.

[@MrHevyshevy]

I love it. I run quadrajets on almost everything.

[@jamesspash5561]

Quadra jets are great. 99% of folks are scared of them because they look complex and don't want to learn to adjust them. Holley's on the other hand look simple but are way harder to tune. Out of the box they are set up super rich to cover what ever a DIYer puts it on. A Quadra jet will only feed as it's asked. Look around nd the q jet ran from 600 cfm up to 850cfm. Just have to know what your looking for. Education folks.

[@danieldimitri6133]

My brother was big into pontiac and always told me about jim hands station wagon and how he ran pretty good with the stock manifold and the edlebrock manifolds made almost no difference in track times. Of course i read some of that book myself and his "stock" manifold was ported and heavily weight relieved. The plenum was opened up so it didn't have the 4 holes etc... He also ran pretty well with the available off the shelf cams from summit racing and from the factory but ended up using a larger cam with rhodes lifters to help the drivability. It was an interesting experiment of rigorous testing and some surprising results. Like mounting the mufflers behind the axle so the gas was cooler and took up less space. I think doing this allowed him to use "turbo" mufflers instead of straight through mufflers and he also used smaller tail pipes. The engine was stroked i believe but everything was pretty conventional and could be duplicated on a reasonable budget. Though he spent tons in experimentation.

[@danawilkes6174]

It's been years since I talked to Jim. He kept track of everything he did in writing. I experimented a lot. He experimented much more, and that it what made his wagon formidable. I wonder how he is doing, or is he even still around. Time flies when you get older. I'm 72, and as my Grandfather told me over a half century ago. Time has Wings!

[@sstevocamaro]

This is old school original Richard testing here! Love it!!

[@landonthompson5604]

That 400 brings me back when I had a 77 Bonneville, 6X heads and down on power until I purchased new Edelbrock heads, intake manifold, and crane cam that brought her to life.

[@sombra6153]

When I started reading Hot Rod back in the late 70s, I don’t recall any of the personalities writing for the mag ever having any contempt for the Q-Jet until GM decided to seal over the adjustment screws to prevent someone tinkering and sacrificing low performance in the name of efficiency. The work around was for more intrepid riders to drip out the body to give access to adjustments. Having never owned or worked on a Q-jet I can’t describe the particulars.

[@SPSteve]

Nice to see some Pontiac testing. The QJet will hold its own on a stock-ish build. I'd love to see a 350 Olds tested.

[@robertwest3093]

BTW, this is honestly the first 2 barrel dyno test I have ever watched! Some of those Rochester 2G and 2GC carburetors were TINY!

[@danr9584]

Weren't there 2 different sizes of the 2G? was this the big one or the small version?

[@theeducatedredneck4144]

I built a 400 Pontiac in the early 90's. A local machine shop prepped the block and performed a 3 angle valve job on the 6X heads. I assembled everything with the recommended parts after machining. I ended up with a 406, the cam was 218/218 -454/454, Edelbrock performer intake, Edelbrock carb and headers with Flowmaster exhaust. I had a built turbo 400 and 3.73 gears in a 1980 Firebird Formula. My best ET was 14.17 at 96 mph. Most runs were 14.30's to 14.40's.

[@richardholdener1727]

nice

[@johnsheetz6639]

I had a 301 2 barrel Grand Prix the horsepower was rated sooo low but it was the best V8 fuel economy I ever got. in my estimation 20 or slightly more it had like a 2 56 or Something gear. On the bright side it did get me home every time and the air conditioning worked.

[@jackmehoff4613]

Richard, can you debunk the Pontiac intake myth? Supposedly Edelbrock intakes only have a weight advantage, no power gains? At least over a factory Ram Air manifold.

[@richardholdener1727]

please see the edelbrock intake test on the 400

[@duncanmacrae6384]

71 Pontiac T37 "cheap Lemans" 67 400 2BBL. 12MPG 15.96 Q mile. Stock Q-Jet and manifold. 16 MPG and 14.85 Q mile. Luv those Q-Jets and Pontiacs.

[@erichill5208]

Now that was a great comparison. I have run many Qjets as well as Holly. I always liked the Reliability of the Qjet. The Holly style seamed a little fussy and needed more fine tuning.

[@fortyshooter1]

Would be nice to have seen the 3x2 setup!

[@darrininverarity4297]

Their are 2 different quadrajets,the carburetor you want is the one with the fuel line that runs straight in,which is the Oldsmobile and the Pontiac,they have 850 cfm.

[@bicylindrico]

Always loved that Pontiac silver/blue engine color

[@tonytronto777]

Great video, The Hp is right on for back in the day..2 barrel 400 pontiacs made 250 hp and 4 barrel 400’s made 350 hp ( non ram air 400’s) love to see you swap in ram air 4 cam with 1. 65 rockers = 525 lift.. or a higher performance flat tappet hydraulic cam

[@peted5217]

Believe there are more Q-jet equipped NHRA records still than Any other carb. Feature That !

[@eddieristau4214]

The HEI is a great ignition system but the big flaw ( which was by default due to lousy emissions calibrations in the 70s) was its slow mechanical curve versus the points set up used up to 1974. The HEI set up we know came out in 1974 as an option among the various GM divisions but the curve wasn't as lazy as the 1975 & later versions when the catalytic converter was mandatory on the car lines & varying truck or van packages ( many were still non catalyst). Best thing to do is to get these things recurved unless it had already been done. Difference in power off the line and better gas mileage was the results and many times not making a difference in the tail pipe emissions. Huge fan of Pontiac engines. Easy to work on, varying heads for power & flow differences without changing the camshaft ( 067 which was the workhorse unit up to 1976 which really gave surprising power), no need to pull the distributor changing intakes, timing chain replacement is easy without pulling the oil pan down. If it had a 2 barrel, put a 4 barrel intake on with corresponding Q Jet or whatever you want without changing heads or camshaft in most cases. Machined combustion chambers, very high but smooth low end torque for snappy off the line power with even a highway gear like a 2.73 or 3.08 gear, fuel mileage is actually good unless you go to the extremes or open the secondaries all the time. If you want a tow engine, these are great.

[@markburkey6371]

Thank you so much for the Pontiac content!

[@markburkey6371]

Also, wish I would have known that you were going to do this. I could have loaned my torker intake manifold and Holly 750 4 barrel to make things even more interesting....

[@richardholdener1727]

we might have a Torker at Westech

[@MP-pz9oe]

Very interesting ! How it compares with tri power ?

[@richardholdener1727]

I hope to find out

[@wtdonovan]

@@richardholdener1727 That's one of the oldest Pontiac benchracing arguments. The oldheads obviously feel the 3x2s are stronger and the later guys would say the Qjet ran better than the trips even if it doesn't look as good to the eye. That comparison will make someone cry no matter what happens, it would be so good. hahaha

[@badassgararge2974]

I have a 1969 400 engine with a 2bb cab. This is exactly the video im looking for .Thank you 😊

[@g3garage]

Great video Richard! In the process of determining what to do with with 400-2V in my 75 Grand Am and this video was perfect timing! Looking forward to part 2.

[@terrybeasley7505]

Get Cliff Ruggels book on quadrajets and build one. It makes a bas a$$ carb.

[@randallmason9687]

I had the 750cfm Edelbrock version. Loved that carb!!

[@AustinRBa]

Now I'm curious how much the 2 barrel on my stock 76 Mopar 400 is holding me back. Guess I'm hooking up a vacuum gauge and going for a quick drive!

[@TomSmith-cv8hk]

2 barrels hold back our little 253 Holden V8's and the old 307 Chevs also pick up noticeably after putting a Qjet on, the roar of the secondaries alone is worth the swap.

[@thereluctantgearhead4544]

First engine I ever built was a 400 Pontiac. Definitely alot of potential. The 2-barrel is a shot in the foot and it'll actually decrease fuel economy, because your deeper into the throttle to attain any given speed. Ole Q-jets can feed some pretty serious engines. Friend of mine has a NHRA legal Superstock 73 Super Duty 455, makes over 725hp at 8000+rpm with its original Q-jet on a Super Victor intake. Runs low 9s at 150+mph in a 3rd gen firebird.

[@shanefrericks2070]

1969 Quadrajet 830 CFM off of 472 Cadillac. Is what I got bolted on top of my 455. Camshaft is a .041 hydraulic Ramair IV. Seal power pistons 10.5 to 1. Sitting in my 1965 GTO. 3.23 Gears and turbo 400 3200 rpm stall converter. B&M. Shift kit. His and her dual shifter out of 69 GTO. Blackjack headers

[@pauljanssen7594]

Yes I like to modify the cast iron intake like the aluminum one some and make sure you block off the heat riser. The stock cast iron cart set intake works really well when it's modified.

[@SweatyFatGuy]

You're catching on to Pontiac engines.. I dig it. I've known there is a big difference between 2 and 4 barrels on these engines for over 30 years. The 73 to 79 EGR intakes are better than the 2 barrel by a lot as well. You probably won't see much difference between the Performer and the stock intake. The only thing it does is lower the weight a bit and let you bolt a 4150 flange on without a spacer. A single plane is going to make everything worse, but you could try one. If you pick up shipping both ways I have a Torker II sitting here you could try, and an RPM as well. The factory intake is just as good, or better than both of those until you get lots more airflow through the heads. About mileage.. we in the Pontiac world have known for decades that you will get better mileage with a Qjet than a 2 barrel. Its not about airflow and fuel being less, its about the engine making less torque. You look at those two torque curves and the 2 barrel is WAAAAAY down on power and never even comes close to the Qjet intake. These engines are designed to make flat torque curves between 2500 and 4500rpm, and they do it well. The more torque you make in that range, the less fuel you are going to use, because the engine can easily get the vehicle moving and keep it moving. It doesn't have to labor, doesn't need as much throttle angle, and thus it uses less fuel. The long ports and velocity caused by the shape of the ports is what makes all that torque. The 455 does it better than the 400, the 400 is better than the 350 which is better than the 326. The 389 used a different valve angle/size and smaller ports, I haven't tested one of those. Yes you can get better mileage from a 455 than you can a 400, because that 4.21" stroke just moves stuff. If you stomp it often, you are going to use lots of fuel regardless of the cubes under it. The 455 makes LOTS of torque in that idle to 4500 range, which is why they don't need any more than a 3.55 gear, and usually they will run the same ET with a bit more MPH with a 3.08 gear behind them. I've run 12.60s with a 2.93 gear (not a typo, two nine three) in a 4100lb 70 GTO, with a 455 wearing 5C heads that gave it 8.8:1 compression, and a 224/228/110 hydraulic cam.... when it hooked. 1/8 mile John Force burnouts were effortless with that thing, even from a 40mph roll. It also got 17-19 mpg highway, with a best of 20mpg following a semi down I-40 through TN. It ran the same with Th400 or 2004R transmissions, with stock converters. It really did not care. Super fun car to drive like that. I slowed down an 11.40 Firebird with a 455to 12.0s by going from a 3.42 gear to a 4.10, keeping the same 28" tires. It was at 6000rpm before the 1000', and it even slowed it in the 1/8th mile. You simply do not need lots of gear behind a 455, it won't even use a gear deeper than 3.55 until you get over 310cfm though the heads. The best way to build a Pontiac is to make it do what it was designed to do, better. This 400 is REALLY mild, it probably has a cam close to the 067 or Summit 2800. The Summit 2802 (RAIII copy) and a Crower 60919 (RA IV copy) would wake that sleepy little 400 right up. The RA IV is only a 231/240/114 cam, so its not all that big. Its funny, people either undercam a Pontiac, or throw more duration at it than it could ever make work. 224 to 240 is the sweet spot with unported iron heads. Over 230 will start moving the torque up though, and cost it at idle to 2500 or so. Not enough cam will not make as much midrange nor carry it out as far in RPM. They idle real smooth though.

[@evanc6110]

Great to see you are here again. Thank you for typing all of that out.

[@richardholdener1727]

thnx for the info

[@SweatyFatGuy]

@@richardholdener1727 we'll see how well the Performer does against the stock intake.. ;) But I think you already know.

[@SweatyFatGuy]

@@evanc6110 I watch most all of Richard's videos, very informative stuff and I use it often with my LS engines. I just don't always write something.

[@elmerfudpucker3204]

Awesome info obviously from a well learned Poncho man. Thanks for sharing

[@GeekGinger]

Back in the early 90s one of my sisters bought a 70 Bonneville with a 2V 455 engine. It felt so weird! I can only compare it to an old diesel.

[@TheOneAboveAll-001]

So much for doing this, I could have told you a long time ago two-barrel was not the way to go which is the current setup I have on my 350 Pontiac, I will be upgrading as soon as money permits.

[@richardholdener1727]

The question wasn't which one makes more-the question was by how much?

[@johnnyboyssite]

Cool to see you test the Qft slayer vs the Qjet. those qfts are under 500 bucs and does a great job. runs smooth on my 454

[@dukelps9132]

Which q-jet did he use? Most of the q-jets were around 750 cfm but there were a few made for big block Pontiacs and Buicks that were 850 cfm.

[@richardholdener1727]

this 340-hp 400 didn't need an 800

[@puffkendrick6850]

Hey Rich ,I use to rebuild.the Q jets on my coffee break.What a 👍 great set up.

[@robertstout6980]

This engine appeared to be quite similar to the '69 and '70 350HP 400 engines. What's interesting is in the full size (never saw a 350HP 400 in a full size) cars the 400 came with hi compression, 2bbl carb and lo po camshaft, small (1.66 ex valve heads) and made 290 HP. In the intermediate cars it came with 8.6 compression and put out 265 HP. I would wonder what the original application for that 2GC was. The 290 HP was good performing stock, with a stock 4bbl swapped on, it was like a 350 HP engine. Every Pontiac 2bbl engine I converted to 4bbl, and some with '67 to '71 large valve heads was an excellent runner, even without the bigger camshaft. For reference, the 1970 455 used the 9779067 camshaft, the '69 428 370 HP used the even milder 9779066 shaft. the 2bbls, IIRC, used the 254 suffix cam, I don't think they were part of the 9779 series, memories are fading.

[@clinkerclint]

One of my buddies had (still has) a 67 tempest with a 2bbl 350 Pontiac in high school. He swapped to a Edelbrock manifold and a 4bbl carb and we couldn't believe how much power it picked up.

[@ryanmoore7127]

i love your qjet content. i am a huge qjet fan and always will be. had one from a 350hp? 396 on my 350 camaro. and it outbeat the edelbrock performer in both economy and performance. it was equally as good as the 850 demon mechanical secondary annular carb, but the demon lacked fuel efficiency and the legendary wahhhhhh

[@wannabeetiger]

You have one of the coolest jobs in the world!

[@InvincibleExtremes]

That aluminum intake isn't an upgrade... the RPM performer is what you need. The regular performer is basically the same or worse than a stock 68 to 72 pontiac 4 barrel intake

[@docsmallblock6584]

Q-Jets are a good carburetor without a doubt! Most all are 750cfm FYI. There's a few tricks you can do to them to make them very, very awesome carburetor's!

[@DSRE535]

The good thing is you used to 75 new or APT style Q-jet which is 800 CFM and they work a lot better than earlier version especially when built correctly

[@hugieflhr03]

It’s real world simple hotrodding videos like this that are awesome!!!

[@thereluctantgearhead4544]

The old late 60s Pontiac intake is actually a damn good piece. NHRA "Stock" 400s are making well over 500+hp these days. They run 10.30s in the 1/4 in a legal D/S late 60s firebird RA 400.

[@Russell_and_Rosko]

Holy crap 1200+ likes, less than 30k views. Keep doin what you're doin Richard! Think of an engine related question right now...it turns out Richard has already made a video about that question. Try it, any question.

[@TomSmith-cv8hk]

Two things I felt were interesting, the adaptor made a small common plenum or crossover point but didn't change the power curve and the blunt face of the Qjet mounting pad appears not to have hurt anything....Or did the two things cancel each other out, would have liked to have seen the Qjet run with a thin open spacer. BUT, as you said the carb wasn't the limiting factor with the 4 barrels.

[@benh1467]

Can't wait to see part 2. I've go a 69 Grand Prix with a 428 in it, and at my 7,000 altitude it just isn't doing it. I'm looking forward to seeing what the aftermarket intake does for the power.

[@AndyR1982]

Most likely the aftermarket intake is going to hurt power. The Pontiac intake was very well designed and hard to beat. If you still have the quadrajet on your car and are decent with tools, look up cliffs high performance forum. Lots of quadrajet info there... actually thats all it is lol. Can probably get some help setting it up for altitude.

[@brawler3475.0]

Hey Richard I have a 347 Ford small block with a turbo I keep blowing the passenger side head gasket would you have any idea what I can do to stop this timing's at 30° boost is it 7 lb compression is 11:00 to 1?

[@richardholdener1727]

30 degrees of timing under boost? it needs a lot less

[@brawler3475.0]

@@richardholdener1727 thanks you for your time would you have any recommendations on timing

[@tomupchurch4911]

Back in the day we would take two new Holley 500 two barrels and slice the backs off of them...mill them down and epoxy them together. All four venturi's had their own mixture screw and opened progressively together(no secondary) and they were real cheap and gave you 1000 CFM

[@richardholdener1727]

NICE

[@scottk2342]

Richard do a serious Pontiac build a 2 bolt block will work.Put a nodular Crank in there with decent rods and pistons in it. Boost it with twin 45’s and let’s see that 1000 Horsepower mark!Oh and a Plain 6x heads will work!

[@ldnwholesale8552]

To my recollections 400 Ponchos were all 4 bbl?? For a near standard engine the Q jet and spreadbore intake is a very efficient piece. An alloy intake ofcourse would help with less intake heat. Having experienced bullshit 'adapters' to Q jet intakes they always run poorly. Usually with a couple of lean plugs and then one or two black as coal and not firing. This on small block Chevs as well as Holdens. And Thermoquad intakes on Fords. Always use the proper intake!! Though I have seen Q jets on single plane Chevs [with both drillings] that have performed well. Less top end than a 750 but better bottom end so was usually used for the street.

[@travisabrahamson5092]

I really like the 3 barrel demon carburetor. It has small primaries with triple stack boosters and 1 huge secondary barrel . It is very Q-jet like in sound and performance but it's new and much simpler to work on 👍

[@andyharman3022]

That sounds interesting.

[@danawilkes6174]

The late Demon version is similar to the Trap Door carburetor that Pontiac ran at Nascar in 1963. It was a three barrel Carter carburetor. Nascar banned them, and only 13 were made. Again these are similar to the Competition Series ThermoQuads we were using in the early 1970's to the mid 1980's. They came in 850 cfm & 1,000 cfm versions. The 850 cfm top had a secondary booster in the primary, which gave it a better throttle response when used on the 1,000 cfm versions. The secondaries, were identical between the two versions. The primary bore on the 1,000 was straight through. Built many of these Competition Series TQ's over the years for Pontiacs, as the 1966 Tri Powers were hard to find as time went on. The Buick guys would buy a few of these for their 455 motors. Were they much faster than a QJet on a 400 motor? No, just a little. With the 428 or 455 motors, the difference became noticeable.

[@rickuyeda4818]

I adjust the valves and prime the oil while it's on the engine stand.

[@thebrushhawg]

Back in the day i ran predator carbs on my off road jeeps. Id love to see how those would stack up to other carbs in the performance area.

[@gavinpruden3306]

I rather think the stock manifold is better than the performer. Chuck a ram air 4 cam in there.

[@dirtysoufracing6029]

More Pontiac and oldsmo motor stuff please

[@stelitejet]

Hi Richard.. Long time viewer of yours out here in New Zealand i absolutely love your work. A quick Question what carburetor would you recommend for a Holden 253 cubic inch v8 pulls approx 5000 rpm in a jet boat? Many thanks in advance regards Ken.

[@richardholdener1727]

WHAT IS THE INTAKE SET UP FOR?

[@stelitejet]

@@richardholdener1727motor in family Jetboat that revs to about 5000rpm is a small 253 c.i. V8 made by holden in Australia has rv style cam and long tube headers.

[@quietdb2047]

I had a 1971 T-37 350 Th350 with Q-jet factory cast iron intake. Added a 4 hole heat insulator spacer (can’t remember thickness 1/2”- 3/4” ) took 1 second off the 1/4 mile. I would never believed it if someone told me. It loved the added plenum.

[@richardholdener1727]

1 second from a spacer?

[@quietdb2047]

Only change I made it was one the the stacked spacers it had a gasket aluminum plate gasket it was 6 to 8 plates. It wasn’t smooth in the bores and It may have been air mixing with fuel better. The car went from 15.30 to 14.30s

[@quietdb2047]

Only problem with that spacer it ruined the Q-jet it warped the entire carb main body. 3/16 to 1/4”.

[@quietdb2047]

Wish I had the carb still so I could show it off.

[@thman6453]

Pretty cool 👍 part 2 should be fun

[@ericwilson2585]

This is cool. There was a time when I was into the ol Pontiacs.

[@kyleclarke773]

Love this channel and love the quadrajet ❤!!

[@franciscoceballos1581]

Great 👍👍 results , testing is the perfect solution for less trouble

[@billclisham8668]

With the 62 heads, the factory cast iron intake works better than the weight savings gong to after market aluminum.

[@AndyR1982]

I have always been a fan of the quadrajet. Tuned right on the right manifold they are good for great power. Also i will guess at the aluminum intake losing at minimum 5 to 10 hp over the iron manifold. The Pontiac intake is hard ro beat. And especially if opening the primary to secondary holes like the aftermarket then notches between the secondaries like the edelbrock.

[@boydoesititch]

Very true The PMD engineers knocked it out of the park with the factory Qjet intake.