Quake 6 - Could it become mainstream online again? Thoughts on mulitplayer and modes

I've been playing Quakes since 1998, 26 years ... you know a game is special when you can still have fun after all that time. The fans that have stuck with it, love it in a way that they just can't enjoy other games. No matter how many games I try, I always go back to Quake. It's been one of constants in my life.
But if the game is that great, why are so few people playing it?
That's what I wanted to talk about with this video ... what can they do to get people interested? Most of the things we mentioned have been done by other games, and they still have a following, so what else could it be?
My money is on game mode. With the right game mode, Quake 6 could dominate.
I wanted to open this conversation up with this video though, so what are your thoughts? Leave them below, look forward to reading some ideas!
Link to my game mode idea for Quake Champions, just as an example of a possible new game mode: • Quake Champions - SIEG...
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[@MrDjBanza]

Quake 6 needs either easily accessible community SDK tools like cs:s or wc3 or extremely passionate dev team that pumps out content for years to come.

[@hypolyxa7207]

Server binaries so the community can do their own servers, rules, and like you say, SDK tools so we can make maps. They need to offer a lot of opportunities and customization to compete with new games. And like Ninja says, new game modes are a must.

[@White1nsane]

TOP 1 PRIORITY, all quake games till QC survived on community content and are played to this day.

[@damsen978]

And they gotta do it with Id Software's latest Id Tech engine. No Saber engine or 3rd party engine bullshit.

[@goodfella_]

this. mod it up!

[@fnflocci]

"Pumps out content" - I agree and disagree. Honestly, I think this needs to stop and we should get back to basics. Personally, I haven't found any newer games any fun whatsoever, and after working in the industry for years, it's extremely exhausting (both as a dev and a consumer). But, I suppose that's the world we live in and there's nothing I can do about it 😅 I just want to play a fun game that keeps me entertained and others enjoy it as well (looking at you Quake 1 in the mid to late 90s).

[@alexandrecosta2567]

One thing i would love to see (but won't, probably) is a game targeted to low specs. I remember playing quake live with my friends because you just needed a PC to play it. Some could play the game with integrated graphics, and it was a lot of fun on LANs. Hopefully Quake 6 is a hit! I would love it to become more popular

[@MrBiosh0ck]

I don't want flashy graphis in quake. It just feels wrong...

[@uis246]

Xonotic time

[@SlavaBohu]

​​​​​@@uis246 Xonotic is cool but the artstyle and sound design is meh... Quake is much better in that.

[@Storm_.]

This is a perfect example of how people misremember Quake. When Quake 1, 2 & 3 were released they were all at the fore-front of graphical technology, they were the most demanding games in the industry. The engines were ID's property to sell to the gaming industry, for many games to be based on. All PC hardware reviewers used Quake as the main benchmark. It took years for people to get enough computer speed to get 70fps, then 120fps, then 250fps.. literally years. I think that the game needs to be based on a top-tier engine again, to show off it's pedigree of 'the benchmark'. This way it appeals to mass-industry, ie; sponsorship of graphics card and CPU companies. Tech companies.

[@SlavaBohu]

@@Storm_. Quake 3 as esport game became popular years after its release, everyone could play that in the mid 2000's and Quake Live was released in 2010, eleven years after original Q3 was released. It wasn't «at the fore-front of graphical technology» at all by that time but it was popular and it still could be popular if ID listened to community on how to balance ingame matchmaking/servers system and if their team did a better job at marketing and monetization strategy. They just didn't cared enough about their creation so it fell behind in the competition.

[@TheNewFlesh]

Last time I played Apex, it was pretty transparent that hackers would just wipe entire squads in seconds. If Quake 6 can't squash bad actors with efficiency, one sour taste will mean uninstalls. Killcams, spectating, and report feedback are all crucial to creating an impression that people are playing fair and the devs give a damn

[@DLLW93]

kill cams demo recordings and spectating is an absolute MUST. Kill cam reactions with quake trickshots will just print content

[@BlueLightningSky]

Kill cams should just be a standard at this point. Even if there is no cheating going on it lets players look into the other player's screen for the peace of mind when they feel they died unfairly.

[@bigpep7987]

Hacks ? Use a controller with Apex (and many other forced cross platform FPS games) and you'll see that hacks are built into the game in the form of controller aim assist. You don't even have to track your target, the game does it for you when you use iron sights in the general direction of your target. If you have good game sense and give yourself time to get used to a controller, you'll see how insanely easy the game becomes.

[@hypolyxa7207]

Or just flag all hackers and put them in lobbies against each other.

[@ElementShinobi]

Can confirm. I was soured on The Finals after running into a blatant cheater every match one day.

[@JogoDetonado]

Quake needs a story mode, in the same way we had with Doom 2016, to renew the audience. Possibly encourage, within the game, DM, TDM, Duel and other modes, even against bots. Maybe bonus stages with defrag. It needs a well-balanced game in all factors to keep the community engaged. Quake Champions is a very intimidating game for casual players and a story mode solution with extremely intelligent bots is what can engage.

[@Wobbothe3rd]

Quake Chsmpions has excellent bots.

[@Racoon4432]

Quake champs dropped the ball in so many areas to where the game generally wasn't fun for long time fans and for new or casual players.

[@DelasVC]

What was really missing for me in QC was (and is) is: VOD replay! A map editor for the community to contribute - such a HUGE plus in Diabotical! And Customizability :(( I hated the guns cluttering up the screen! Would've been great to be able to move them around! Also customizable HUD would've been dope next to some other stuff..

[@Moco26]

Yeah. Diabotical was soo good but it was too much of a hassle to load up Epic launcher just for that one game. And also it slowly died because of low dev support

[@DelasVC]

@@Moco26 Well, QC is much worse in that regard. In terms of features I'd say Diabotical is the most complete Arena Shooter out there. They could've even expanded on the Wee-Balls for some ability variety - everything a fan of the genre could'd ask for! Except for the silly artstyle.. 2GD just _had_ to be 2GD and give it his silly touch! Even the Eggbots would've been fine - if the game was given a little more of a grittier vibe.. But no, James _had_ to force it his way..

[@Moco26]

@@DelasVC i didn't mind the aesthetic, it was cool, but now, looking back it does look a bit cliché

[@DelasVC]

@@Moco26 I didn't mind enough to be a dealbreaker for me. But I certainly saw what turned off a lot of people - especially a mainstream community. Very sad, because as I said in terms of features but also mechanically DBT is pretty much the best aFPS out there. It feels buttery smooth!

[@chinohormann]

Quake 2 Instagib with the grapple hook mod is _STILL_ the most fun I think I've had in a competitive multiplayer shooter. I just loved how your aim REALLY needed to be on point, with how quickly people were zipping around with the grapnel hooks. I also kinda liked how IF you missed, you were basically flagging your position to your target so they'd get "their shot."

[@trynaplay2603]

Try xonotic CTF out usually instagib with grapple hooks

[@SlavaBohu]

What I want from the new Quake multiplayer: 1) The ability to create custom servers with modified game modes, character abilities, and physics so that people can play pure Quake or Quake with any kind of bells and whistles if they want. 2) Implementation of AI that collects player movement fingerprints and ranks people according to their skills if they choose to play on ranked servers, or bans them if they cheat (banned players should still be able to play on servers with anti-cheat disabled).

[@athikbanget]

I mainly play fighting games and I was always mesmerized with quake's 1v1 as it draws a lot of parallels with fighting games with poking, baiting, timing, advanced movements etc. I always wished more people would play it. unfortunately having no teammates to blame your failings is a hard sell for casuals these days, so team format is unfortunately a must. even a mere 2v2 would draw considerably more eyes I think. aside from making team mode standard, I would propose something that fighting game community has a love/hate relationship with: comeback mechanics. make the last player in team even scarier to fight without their teammate(s). sure the top players will hate it, but once the 'last player standing team kill' compilations starts hitting youtube, you know it will translate to a lot more installs

[@skepp5597]

Oh no, the good ones love to be last man standing, no need to buff that player.

[@raphaelvilleneuve9162]

Quake with large maps would be insane. The amount of strafe jumping speed you would get would be an absolute blast. When I played Apex I just thought to myself "if only I could strafe jump and use the railgun I would win every time"

[@erminioff]

It would be a tribes clone. Imagine apex having complete bunnyhoping with cpm physics, you would run over the entire maps in 15 secs

[@BOZ_11]

yeah but i dont wanna strafe jump for 5 minutes to get into a fight every time i respawn

[@LeMicronaut]

Tribes 3: Rival Open Beta is out on Steam, btw.

[@Katze822228]

"I would win every time" that would exactly be the reason why such a game wouldn't appeal to the main stream. The battle royale folks love that genre because anyone can win.

[@unclerhombus]

Quake 6 battle royale 😎

[@kristiankoski3908]

I started playing Quake when Quake 1 remaster came out. And I still have never played better gamemode than Quake duel, especiallly QL/Q3. I really hope Quake 6 goes back to its roots.

[@sep_vs_theworld]

i so badly want quake 6 to do well. i love your idea with the PVPVE game mode with hordes of monsters mixed with team based combat. i think that falls in line with quake, and would be amazingly fun to strafe around, kill monsters, and fight the other team at the same time. I think they still for sure need the traditional game modes as well but less of the strange ones like sacrifice etc as i just dont think they hit right in champions. One other thing i think would be hugely beneficial is a tutorial of some sort. even if it is just a basic obstacle course that you can test the quake movement with it explained, so you can play with it. I have so many instances of getting friends to try to quake and them bringing up the movement but not having a proper way to try it, or visualize first hand what is happening (other than myself or a youtube video explaining it). Once you understand the movement though in quake i think no other FPS Feels the same.

[@randomdudeontheinternet4389]

Your approach with the "Tug of War" reminds me of Attrition from Titanfall 2. Which is also by far the most popular game mode in that game. The thing that attracts me most to arena shooters is mostly speed and smoothness of movement. So actually the arena itself isn't even that important to me, but more a refined movement system. Which is, why Titanfall 2 is currently my go to. Quake Champions does feel very nice movement wise, but doesn't have as many players as Titanfall 2 anymore.

[@mikej243]

I remember when I was still new to Titanfall2 but didn’t mind being bad because killing ai in a pvp match was satisfying while I learned the ropes.

[@Cublyy]

Titanfall sure did have good movement and nice gunplay overall. What made it boring to me was the AI. I want to kill players, not AI. It became annoying having to run past them to find players, the maps were too large to accomodate them and loads of titans, it would have been better without AI, a more limited play space, a cap on titans (maybe they slowly die so other players get to use theirs if you are an unkillable killing machine). I miss that game, but I could only play it for a short while before getting bored, it seems that's what happened with most people, it was so hyped up when it came out.

[@notturok7841]

Quake 6 needs defrag levels for movement practice. I’d spend hours refining my movement. To a point I know how to do tricks with weapons to this day players have trouble doing and amazed to see be pulled off. Quake has an amazing g physics engine, they need to harness it and teach it.

[@bigpep7987]

I felt the same way about duel until recently. We've got a nice low-elo duel scene in NA right now and I've fallen in love with dueling. Even though I suck, the feeling of improvement is very satisfying because of how much strategy is involved. It truly is FPS chess.

[@RocketJumpNinja]

I've won a few duels over the years and felt improvement and all that, but I still just don't like the mode, find it super boring. Even watching is boring when they're just walking around the maps. No kills for 5 minutes, ugh, someone throw a chair.

[@bigpep7987]

@@RocketJumpNinja I am mostly a CA player too and that's the general attitude of most CA players towards duel it seems. Most duelers I talk to hate CA and most CA players just dont care for dueling. Feels like there's very few of us who fancy both haha

[@RocketJumpNinja]

@@bigpep7987 yeah they're pretty different games, despite the same base. You tell me to duel, I'll say "why?" and go do something else like hang with friends, play basketball, make some music, anything. Like there's literally no appeal to sit there to duel, I feel like it's a waste of life. But playing CA ... yeah that's pretty fun, I'll do that.

[@AdesGamingHere]

I believe that what we expect from games have changed in last 20 years, as players a lot of us made friends, joined communities and have lost interest in solo/duel based gameplay which arena/fighting/acing leans toward. While there were team game modes in old quakes, those games were always far too fast to really create a meaningful teamplay opportunity. Balancing movement speed and ability to do plays together is a very difficult challenge and i am not sure how one would address that. Having a sort of singular objective for players definitely would be a good idea as this leads creates a point of interest that players gather around creating a much more likely teamplay scenarios, that's. If we want to have new arena shooter, it's really important that we create environment where players have opportunities to play together. Problem is that, game modes like payload, koth do not work as they require player to become static target, how do we make a dynamic game which promotes teamplay while not constraining player's movement. That's really the question that needs to be answered.

[@eirin099]

koth and payload doesn't have to restrict all the players that much, but it does definitely slow things down in most titles ive seen 5cp from tf2 is a pretty good middle ground as points cap relatively fast and it leads to alot of back and forth (usually; depends abit on the rulesets, meta, map) but it can also get a bit stale. this problem seems to be exactly what the overwatch team tried to work on with the new push gamemode and its working relatively well in pubs, not sure how it is on a comp level tho (also ignoring the fact that ow doesn't have that much free movement outside of abilities or a select few characters)

[@azmalguthek4502]

UT CTF player here. Still IMO the greatest team multiplayer experience of all time, and though I adore Quake to death, I honestly don't think it could compare. That being said, since Epic is trash, it probably will never come back. So next best thing is Quake. Quake definitely favors duel more, but honestly I would love to see them somehow modernize CTF while still keeping the old school feel intact. Excited to see whatever happens, regardless. Long live the old guard.

[@highestsettings]

CTF is exactly the type of game mode you are talking about IMO. Also watch professional CA or TDM with comms audio, even with those types of game modes, there's way more going on as a team than you seem to think. You still have to control the map as a team in TDM, you still can react on the fly and gang up on weak opponents (or protect weak team maters), etc. There are roles that people can play in the same way the CS has roles that people play that aren't defined by the game itself. But I agree with the basic sentiment, teamplay should be emphasised. Teamplay means getting friends on board which means growing the game.

[@ScudX]

I feel exactly the same as you do about vanilla dueling, Zy. Was great to hear you explain its lack of personal appeal in one slick sentence!

[@kotj101]

too many game modes are bad. It divides the community. Just like having to many mods. It dilutes the whole thing. But its really hard for new game modes to catch. Lots of good points in the video. It wouldn't be quake if they removed the strafe jumps.

[@WARnTEA]

I agree. This is something I really hate about most games. I even hate how in CSGO people could choose the maps they played because it really fractured the playerbase and made the ranking system almost pointless because if you ranked up on maps that weren’t Dust2 you would get destroyed when you played Dust2. All of the best players were playing Dust2 because thats where all the cheaters were, so to rank up on Dust2 you had to be good.

[@FiltyIncognito]

Keep in mind that a large portion of that "too many games modes divides the community" is a fallacy. It assumes that the total player base will be just as big with fewer game modes. Its the same fallacy as when corpos think that eradicating piracy will turn every single pirated copy is a lost sale. A lot of people only jump in because there's an option to them that is accessible and enjoyable. Or keep playing because there's enough variety to keep them from getting bored and dropping the game. And nothing rubs me the wrong way worse than being forced to play something I don't enjoy. That's been the biggest game-killer for me for the past two decades, whether it was maps, classes, characters, team roles, play styles or comms. Gamers come in all kinds of shapes and sizes. Forcing everyone into the same mold, for something as individual as 'fun', shows a very distinct lack of perspective and understanding. Yeah, it'd be nice for the shareholders or gamers who get favored by that mold if things turned out the way they wanted it to, but the reality is that for everyone else it's just 👎 IMO game mode division, unless excessively absurd in ways rarely if ever seen or slowing overall game development, is never the primary failure mode for a waning game. It's a symptom.

[@tigersoulmusique]

what i missed the most in quake champions was freeze tag really, thats why i still play quake live time to time really

[@user-vv8vz9iv1e]

Quake 3 was the gold standard of arena FPS. Let's hope that Quake 6 is Quake 3*2

[@GMTD11]

I love Quake for great atmosphere, bodyhorror, and i long time don’t have Ethernet so I enjoyed single story. It’s not something specific, but I like return to Quake just to walk through map, find all secrets once more and kinda like speedruning maps.

[@jigsawlol242]

The body horror and atmosphere of Quake 2 and 4 were great. We just need id to make a better story driven narrative in the veins of D00M Eternal. They could do amazing things with today's graphics

[@Moco26]

I really tried to get a lot of friends into QC, I really did. First I played ranked 2v2s with my brother in 2018 or something. Queue times just got longer and we gradually stopped playing it. Then I tried introducing a few more friends to it, they didn't have the PC specs, or had issues even with good PCs. Or they didn't have the patience to wait for 20gb updates that were happening back then. That was a long time ago. There are a lot more and small reasons that add up that can lead a new Quake game to failure. That should be a topic for a whole video or series.

[@JakeKlineMusic]

People are updating the Open Source Quake 3 binary w/ better mouse input latency, as quake3e.exe aka ver. 1.32e, & backporting QL niceties & changes as we speak w/ the Q3+ mod. It's evident to me that the open source Quake 3 Arena, w/ the OSP jump height / stair jumping & an OSP-style EZ config launcher, will be the once & future king of the AFPS genre.

[@Moco26]

@@JakeKlineMusic damn man you're really living under a rock. Firstly I was talking about Quake Champions. Secondly it's not the question of what game to play now, but HOW could the new Quake game appeal to a bigger audience. I tried playing Q3 but it was too much of a hastle having to type stuff in the console, then failing to connect to the SPECIFIC server that my friend wants me to join, then having to download HIS version of Q3 and reconfiguring it to my needs hoping not to break stuff in the process. Plus the lack of players there is crazy. People want something they can start up instantly, click play and get into the game without much problems (i.e. QL or CS2)

[@speedsociety9177]

Pure Duel or TDM in Quake was still always the king of modes for me because especially in duel not only did you need great movement and aim, but also map knowledge, reading your opponent and environment (timing items etc). It is SO strategic even though the primary thing people see is just the combat. That doesn't mean I liked this mode of playing a lot personally though, which might be the problem for the mass appeal of those modes after all.

[@richardmiklos]

I just want my friends to play Quake with me. For that to happen it has to be much more noob friendly. I like the idea of a PvPvE gamemode where even the noobs can have some fun. But even in that gamemode they are going to be demolished by veterans with better movement. The real solution would come with a large playerbase and ranked matchmaking where you get equal enemies. For a large playerbase there has to be some huge hype around the release, and they have to get the matchmaking and the featured gamemode(s) right the first time (khm... so basically the inverse of Diabotical). No early access bullshit. Lot of money on advertisement. And some luck (TikTok trend or something).

[@newroo]

I've been playing quake since 1996 and i have aprox 15 000 hours in Q3/QL, what made Q3/QL stand out and kept alive was the ability for the community to take over, create maps, game modes etc. One thing that the teams/companies are to greedy to see, I do believe if they could combine all the items that can be bought skins etc with having a community driven development of the game that would probably create a success for both parties. I mean, the ELO system in Quake live isnt perfect, but it's sure better then the non-existing in Quake Champions as of today, also one thing that would make a new kid leave the game.

[@Wobbothe3rd]

Quake Champions has a ranked mode! And mods and Custom levels are hard to do at the same quality levels as what id software artists and professionals can make over the course of years.

[@rohitp5023]

I am an FPS veteran with more than 20 years of gaming experience on MnK.. played games like Quake 3, Unreal Tournament in the early days and have been playing Apex since it launched. These days I like playing Deathmatch and Control more than the Battle Royale.. because its more fun and fast. Hence I too agree with you that there is a need for Quake like games in the market today, and they would do great.. Miss the "Monster Kill" announcements !!

[@christopherstanley4837]

I actually think "who sees who first" modes are detrimental now. 10 years ago or less it was a great way to let everyone have fun. But now, there's too much of a skill gap between casual and sweaty. And sweaty players just have faster reflexes and stronger accuracy for snap shooting. Meaning, casuals are dying far more often because even when they saw the other first, all it takes is one miss and the other player is aware of them, and takes them out. We need to look for alternative ways to level the playing field in casual social settings. Your idea of having a tug of war mode akin to LoL is a good suggestion. I think we simply _need_ bots back in multiplayer.

[@luc93luc]

I'm not sure why Quake Champions failed tbh, I think it was a great game, sure it came out a bit unpolished but all the big issues were fixed pretty quickly. The main issue for me was that there simply wasn't enough people playing, making the queue for duels hella long and the matchmaking really unbalanced. Someone at your rating could be way worse or way better than yourself simply because there were too few people playing. As to why there were so few people playing I have no idea, as I said I think it was a great game.

[@nniiijoo]

1. Managing stack wins over aim (amplified by no headshot multipliers) 2. Horrible team-balance in pubs (vets duo queue = stomp) 3. Maps are too small for casual modes. 4. Weapons are balanced for Duel -> casual modes become mostly rocket spam. 5. Some abilities were obnoxious for a long time. 6. Overall art style. 7. Limited goals to grind for. It's obviously never just one reason. The way I see it the game gave very little to anyone outside Quake's main-audience. Community says the game is too hard. What they should be saying is that managing your stack & not running into a dude with 3x your EHP is too hard. The fundamental FPS-aspects aren't any harder than Valorant, Apex, CS, Overwatch etc.

[@bitffald]

Quake in 1v1 is probably on of the most hardcore game experiences out there, a proper duel mode is all I can ask from the new quake

[@baconberries8097]

Your league of Legends idea is super interesting! I'm not huge into quake myself, but I am a big fan of tf2, and I really prefer that style of shooting. Games feel like they have recoil patterns and ADS on every weapon because they think they have to and that's just the baseline expectation. There's a distinct lack of more casual shooters out there, and I'd love another one to play that's not tf2 lol.

[@braddahoz9551]

Quake is one of those games where the skill ceiling is so high, that with the majority of players still playing having so many years of experience it really is hard for new players or someone even interested in quake to get enough of a footing to stay long term.

[@jasonblundell7393]

Idk man I started playing QC 4 days ago and never played quake before. Besides knowing item spawns, it really isn't that hard to get a grip on the game.

[@ZalonDK]

As long as there are enough players to allow you to play against people at your own level, Quake can be fun for everyone.

[@StuartMitchell88]

The reason I will always gravitate towards Quake is the memories of when it was one of the biggest MP games in the world. When Fatal1ty was touring around the world competing in the CPL tours, when QuakeCon was at peak hype, when being good at arena shooters actually meant something. I will always love area shooters, and still think they're the best display of individual shooter skill in video games (specifically duel). I still remember watching the Painkiller CPL World Tour Grand Final with Vo0 playing against Fatal1ty, so much hype!!

[@alzarpomario889]

People prefer to play in a team and have casual fun. I think pushing on other modes in parallel to DM could be beneficial. Also there's never been official support for race mode, that's one of the funniest mode ever made.

[@ToriksLV]

Quake can only succeed if it has the legendary movement it had in the past, fluid fast paced movement with precision and modern UI/graphics to please modern gamers. Evrybody will love it then. Combine best from past and today. No need to reinvent.

[@Wobbothe3rd]

I get what you're saying, but Q1, 2 and 3 alk had slightly different movement, plus CPMA and all the mods. QC has different physics for different characters, I think id should expand on that.

[@metaleater9]

champions were great, it brought all forms of movement modes from all past quake games. Also marketing, It is undeniable that quake champions wasn't marketed at all in comparison oter games.

[@ZorzGaming]

League of Legends in FPS in the Quake world would be absolutely wonderful. You’re a true gaming philosopher. Guys our age have a different perspective :).

[@BigEyeGuy]

Duel mode can still capture the hearts of the hardcore players, CS:GO/2 sort of proved that, I think there are somethings that could be done to make it more approchable, maybe something like a tagteam mechanic where you tag your friend in and you get some downtime and your mate takes over. This will be a good learning ground as well, watching other players.

[@mohammadalirashed3103]

I agree with clan arena being the best game mode for casual play. In terms of arena shooters as a genre, I think it's evolved into the hero shooters of today, and elements of it are present in certain modern shooters, most notable example being THE FINALS.

[@123Calig]

Shootmania had some really great modes for this style of gameplay, I spent 500+ hours in that game. Would love Quake 6 to take some inspiration from that game's attack/defend style modes and fast paced royale 12player 5 min rounds for example.fast pace addictive just one more. Just fun

[@fartloudYT]

quake was basically either free for all fragfest or a dueling game for the most part. all the modern shooters are 'lets throw bunch of people into a map and lets see what happens'.

[@highestsettings]

Arena shooters have a ton of appeal IMO, and not just among the core fanbase. The recent retro FPS revival is testament to that. People want speed, they want to feel like they can be accurate, they want interesting weapons and locations, etc. There's a place in the world for arena shooters, tactical shooters, battle-royale, etc. The issue is that the majority of Quake players have at least a decade of experience with it. Any new players join the game and they get their asshole turned inside out. What arena shooters NEED more than anything is not injecting incompatible gameplay mechanics like champions or whatever. It needs to effectively teach new players how to play (no game has ever done that properly, I'm talking duel theory, I'm talking a full tutorial with training tools that can take people from not knowing anything about the genre to being able to at least keep up on a basic level, even stuff like aimlab and KovaaK's aren't really up to snuff in my opinion). It needs to make the techniques easy to perform and hard to master. It needs to separate the veterans from the newbies. It needs a strong esports scene that doesn't just get pros who have been playing since q3 but finds new blood too. It needs to make it easy for players to join real competition, not just a ranked mode, I'm talking open tournaments with prizes, in game tools to start and join teams, even tools in place to find sponsorship deals for a team or a tournament, you could choose a map (or even create one as like your home stadium sort of thing), you could design team skins, etc. It needs an aggressive marketing campaign with streamers and youtubers to attract a younger audience. It needs modding tools that make Radiant look like shit. Basically, if Quake 6 has any chance of bringing arena shooters back, they need to think of it as a competitive sport first. Think about things like football (actual football, sorry Americans), you have various different leagues that you join as a child and work your way up. THAT'S the sort of infrastructure that this genre needs. It needs to emphasise the competition first, and casual play second. With a genre known for such a high skill ceiling, the only way it's going to be worth it for modern audiences to invest all of that time into learning the game (considering you have 1000 different games released every day fighting for your attention), is if we know for an absolute fact that the game isn't going anywhere, and the skills you learn are actually useful beyond just having fun in a game. For starters, calling it Quake 6 isn't going to help with that. They need to make it clear, this game is going to stick around forever. I don't even know how they could do that, Blizzard promised there would never be an Overwatch 2 and look how that went. They should should monetise it through esports rather than through cosmetics and the game should be completely free-to-play casually. I wish that I had access to the resources Bethesda has. I know that it can be done. Quake is the most rewarding multiplayer game I have ever played, that specific formula is perfect, there has to be a way of breaking into the mainstream with this. I have so many ideas that I can't stop listing them, they should make official frag movies that are made by the best editors the community has to offer (they tried it before but it was half assed) that demonstrates how exciting the game can be to watch and what is possible to do in the game as a player. Speaking of frag movies, that's another thing they could promote within the community, a special frag movie tab that you can watch other people's frag movies and upload your own, with incredible demo support that dwarfs what source and idtech3 demo support was capable of (and arguably those two engines have the best demo support that there has ever been). They won't do any of this. They'll do the same things again, it will fail again, act man will make a misinformed video claiming the genre is dead again.

[@Wobbothe3rd]

There's nothing incompatible woth arena shooters and classes. Q3 was originally going to have classes, Q2 mods and Team Arena introduced classes, classes have been a staple of gaming before computers themselves. Hero shooters are extremely popular.

[@blehmeh9889]

I think a multiplayer PVE mode (or mixed, with bot enemies and human players) could work huge wonders for a Quake sequel. My introduction to Quake was around 2016 or so by playing the Singleplayer campaign for Quake 1 after having finished oldschool Doom. I'm a zoomer who followed the "Garry's Mod, Half Life 2, Half Life 1..." pipeline into boomer shooters and I loved Quake's campaign. The weapons were simple, but the physics involved (bouncing grenades off of walls, being harder to hit when I was on higher ground, etc) introduced so many subtleties to the gameplay that could be mastered that I felt I was getting better at first person shooters in general, not just Quake. I still got bodybagged when I beat the campaign and hopped on a Quakeworld server, but I understood what was going on. Also, my favorite first person shooter at the time was Team Fortress 2, and I felt I went from pretty bad (couldn't aim a projectile weapon to save my life!) to passable just by playing Quake's Campaign because I learned how to aim a shotgun, grenade launcher, and a rocket launcher at a moving target(seriously, my main went from Pyro to Soldier when I started playing Quake). You're right that Quake only requires a handful of skills to do well in, but those skills can have a lot of depth and mastery to them, and you can get consistently bodybagged by a more experienced player if any one of those aren't up to snuff. By contrast, however, Singleplayer taught me to prioritize some (but not all) of those skills consistently, and I didn't have to get better than Quake's veteran players to enjoy learning those skills either. I think games like Apex are able to squeak by "hard to learn" criticisms because the variance of the game and popularity means there's more random chances for you to do well for a little while occasionally even if you're bad, giving you some crumbs of reward between all the learning. By contrast, Quake's Team Deathmatch (or regular Deathmatch) gameplay loop can be very oppressive against an experienced player. On some maps, especially in a 1v1 or a match with only a few players, a very experienced player can quickly run a circuit around the power weapons (rocket launcher, lightning gun, rail gun if applicable), armor, health, and powerups, and can consistently outright kill every player who tries to take it from him because they freshly spawned and have nothing. This was at its strongest in Quake 1. We've seen balance changes since then to make dominating the game harder (players start with 125 health boost instead of just 100, the Quake 1 superweapon-type lightning gun had its power split into the modern lightning gun we have today and the rail gun so it isn't the end-all-be-all BFG anymore, spawns were adjusted, powerups now have a verbal warning that they're about to spawn in, etc), but it can still be done by an extremely skilled player. I think this deathmatch should stay in the new game as a legacy mode, but it isn't the first place we should just shunt new players. It should be called something other than Deathmatch (such as "Quakematch" or "The Original", something to make the veteran players happy it's acknowledged but also make it clear to the new players that it isn't the first place you should go), and something that gives newer players a better chance should take center stage as the defacto mode for the new Quake. I think a potential gamemode for Quake that can mix some of the scavenging aspects and arena fighting of DM without being so oppressive would be a team king of the hill match. Imagine a central arena that the teams had to fight over, but both of their spawns were outside of the arena in alleys and mazes leading up to it. These alleys and mazes would contain some supplies and weapons you could pick up to stand a chance at winning a fight before you go into the central arena. Scoring, kills, etc would somehow center around "The Hill" in a way that incentivizes players to stay in the hill when they're doing well in order to continue to do well, so as to ward off aggressive base pushes or spawn camping (for instance, maybe time spent in the hill or kills earned while in the hill are the only or the strongest ways to score for your team). This would give less skilled players a chance to at least spawn in their "Alley" and pick up some weapons or maybe even armor before jumping into the fight. Maybe it wouldn't be the most "Competitive" or "skillful" gamemode, but I think it would be a blend of Quake's scavenging, deathmatch, and movement on a more casual backdrop that still gives good players a chance to shine. It's possible to design a PVP multiplayer mode that isn't so brutal to new players and still shows off the movement techniques of Quake, but I think multiplayer PVE or a high quality single player campaign would do best by far. The greatest example for me would be Deep Rock Galactic. It's a simple coop game on the surface about going into a cave, shooting space bugs, and mining minerals, but if you choose to go to the higher "Hazard level" caves, you'll need to learn a plethora of movement tricks and kiting techniques just to survive, and completing your objectives will likely hinge on your mastery of your chosen class's mobility and team support tools, ranging from flareguns to bubbleshields to reinforced power drills to a grappling hook to a zipline launcher and everything in between. The skill ceiling is high enough that even just one dwarf can carry the mission by scooping up a huge load of bug kills, mine numerous minerals, complete the mission objective, and escaping with the team. However, you gotta basically master your class in order to pull off such a feat on a high hazard level. Furthermore, the classes work best when they're working together (for instance, Engineer and Scout pair very well together because Engineer can build infrastructure around ceiling ores and Scout can get up there with the grappling hook easily), so you have to learn your role on team too. Scouts need to launch flares from the flaregun and zip around mining ores, engineers need to provide fire support and area control with platforms and sentry guns, drillers need to dig shortcuts around the cave and handle crowd control, and gunners need to provide consistent damage to a wide variety of targets, help the team through wide open caves with a zipline, and protect the entire team when the going gets tough with a well placed bubble shield. There's a huge amount to learn in this game, but it's very accessible nonetheless because you can play on an easier difficulty until you get it, and it's all PVE, not to mention that the community for this game is surprisingly wholesome, and even the veteran greybeards will cheer you on if you're making an earnest effort to help the team.

[@DLLW93]

Long read, I agree with you on everything there. Demo recording and sharing should be implemented as well imo, and a sort of lobby to jump around in and spawn bots in while you queue for a gamemode. Those are the 2 things that reallyyy annoys me about QC. Staring at the main menu while waiting in a queue and no demo replays.

[@blehmeh9889]

holy shit, how'd I write all that? Guess I really like quake @@DLLW93

[@GarrettTBuse]

The big thing about the skill gap in a game like Quake vs Apex is that in Apex and other relatively low ttk games is that in Apex a bad or mediocre player can score some lucky kills by just spraying a player with one of the many high rate of fire weapons that will give you free extra damage if your recoil or spread causes your bullet to hit them in the head and if you decide to use a controller then the game aims for you. Also with BRs there's an aspect of getting lucky by just happening to get better loot than the guy you're shooting at. In Quake a new player can hardly land a kill on a player that is experienced and knows where all the good pick ups are and when they respawn. It's the skill floor that's the issue, not the skill ceiling. I've barely played Apex so sorry if anything I said was inaccurate, I'm just speaking from experience of games like it.

[@gzaos]

I always loved TDM on all my shooters, different views I guess. I just can't wrap my head around with the concept of quake battle royal xD Quake is instant action, fast movement not a walking sim.

[@cliftonixs]

Ohh happy to learn about Q6! Gosh, I remembered when you had like 10k subscribers, super happy to see your channel grow so big! I played Q3 capture strike. I always loved the pure skill vs skill aspect. I played a bit of Quake Champs, but just fell off the band-wagon. Maybe it was because I really like custom maps that the community made back in the Q3 days. But QC only had like 4-5 stages? If there was a map editor where the community could make maps and post them, that would draw me back in. I've been interested in DeFrag, a mod where it's just using speed and tech to get to the end of a long long level. So fascinating. Racing other players in a race map, like hiting the checkpoints would be really neat. Or grab all the items in the stages challenge. Like from the top comment, give players the tools to take Quake and make whatever maps/mods they want and you'll have a healthy player base for years to come.

[@npc1172]

God i would love for quake to come back. I played champions for a little and it was so fun.

[@bruterasta]

I had a ton of fun in Doom2016 Mutliplayer. I actually clocked more hours in multi than in single player. I don't know why journalists and players were dismissing this mode.

[@RocketJumpNinja]

Probably didn't give it a chance because it wasn't what was expected. Sad, really.

[@blame1991]

We need cool gamemodes that would reboot arena shooters. For exemple, a gamemode called Survival. I could imagine lobbies of 6 people where it's 1v1 duels with the other 4 spectating. When one dies, the next in line joins the fight. First to 10-15 kills. No time limit. Voice chat: On. Ammunitions everywhere around the map divided in 2 types of ammo: Regular (rocket, grenade launcher, machinegun, etc.) and Energy ammo: (railgun, LG, etc). That would make it easier to get started since you would spawn with all weapons empty. Also, I think it would be safe to just combine rocket launcher with grenade launcher making it right click grenades, left click rockets. Same for LG/Rail, it could easily be on the same weapon, etc. That would make it easier for new players while still working the same as before. Only one big health spawn in the map every 1 minute with small health bubble respawning around the map every 30 seconds and you remove all armor from the game. Different champions with abilities like in Quake Champions. In order to use abilities you would have to recharge it with adrenaline bubbles that you'd pickup around the map. Could be cool to replace the gauntlet with a melee weapon. A melee weapon that could hit and/or block. Blocking weapon damage could make you take a little bit less damage while blocking melee attack could block it all. I've been picturing this for a while now lol. I love Quake and I'm well aware that it needs more than what it is in order to succeed.

[@gabrielshansen]

@Rocket Jump Ninja What you/we as quake players love first and foremost is obtaining the FLOW-state! All games caters to this, but Quake-series always catered to the mechanicals-induced flow-state. A quake player doesn't want 1 billion tactical and strategic options, but wants to excel in movement and aim, and when practiced, is a simple and 'pure' way of reaching flow-state. Thats why you love ClanArena mode more than anything else: ultrafocus on mechanicals, no constant 'meta' of items and timing, simply focus on your own ability to kill the enemy. Also, the map itself being played becomes very important, because it sets the constraints and possibilites to how you administer your mechanical ability, it becomes an a mechanical obstacle to master and integrate into your thinking... the better you know the map, the easier you reach flow-state. QC complicated gameplay away from pure mechanicals. QW/Q2/Q3/QL Duels do that too by limiting/replacing ammo/life etc, and add timing of items to think about. The same with TDM and CTF, other extra-mechanical requirements for the gameplay are added, and it gets much harder to induce that flow-state! Any new quake game should take a hard look at this: DO you want to continue catering to the purist mechanicals-based flow-state, or do you try to introduce other more cerebral or abstract game mechanics? and for exactly what reason? And, isn't it just a fact that only a very little subset of the large gamer-population prefers mechanicals-based gameplay and flow-state?

[@Dierk200185]

Man Quake Champions is such great MP arena shooter. The movement is and aim skill is untouched imo. Would be great if the community could contribute to QC with maps etc. And Qauke 6 could be be a AAA single player reboot like DOOM did. Either in the Q1 or Q2 strory line

[@dmitriysavchenko5736]

Diabotical wipeout is pretty much the best team based casual mode that exists. I would like to have it as baseline + some layer of complexity on top.

[@CovetFlux]

Amen.

[@impulse255dj]

With regards to your idea about a team based PvP mode with monsters, have you ever seen Gambit mode in Destiny 2? TL:DR 2 teams spawn in separate game instances and have to kill monsters to fill up a bank, summon a boss and kill it before the other team kills theirs. The twist being at set score intervals a portal will open up allowing 1 member of a team to teleport to the other teams instance for 30 seconds to reek havoc and try and set back their opponents progress. I'm not saying this could transfer into a Quake style game exactly but definitely a concept that could be experimented with.

[@thetrashycan]

As a CS player I love watching gameplay of the old Quakes and would love a return to old-school arena shooters. A Quake game with simple graphics and no heroes and a focus on gameplay would draw me in, but I do think audiences would like to at least have good graphics to be interested in the game. As for gameplay, I hear a lot of people avoid Quake because of how difficult it is, but I do think it could carve out a niche because FPS are moving towards fast movement and aim and Quake has always had the purest form of both. Whatever they decide, the devs just need to focus on the core gameplay and market it a little and I can see it getting much bigger (hopefully)

[@1978Magnum]

Play Quakeworld then --- still going strong and has a good friendly community of die hard lovers of the game (and some newer players joining the fun too). The world doesn't really need a new Quake, just need more players to play the original and the best Quake. See the action from QHLAN 2024 which only happened recently. The game has the highest skill ceiling of any FPS in existence. kzbin.info/www/bejne/q6S9m5yslN9jirc

[@thecousindeci1103]

I agree, I think the main issue is duel being promoted as "The Mode" to play, todays audience just doesn't want to play super intensive 1v1s only. There should be more support for interesting and unique team modes in quake not just casual but competitive. Warsow has a teammode called bomb&defuse which in simple terms is quake movement and weapons(You can pick 2 main weapons and 1 utility) but the csgo/valorant gamemode and it's really fun to play, if they implement support for something like that, it would no doubt become popular(warsow has cpma movement but it could be made to be not required for this mode). One other thing is that quake has always been a game that could be run on potato pcs, one reason why I never played quake champions seriously and stuck to quake live was because it is really unoptimized and it's agonisingly painful to play with

[@MP3Crypt]

Agreed

[@masonhhh]

clan arena could get so hype, but i always thought quake like movement would be incredible in a payload/point capture format like tf2 or overwatch; if they could find ways to map it without also stifling the free movement of quake. i think the key to quake blowing up again would be prioritizing team modes like clan arena or something new, as the solo duel audience is already really dedicated. getting people to bring their friends into the game will help massively

[@_h4t3]

Gr8 comment

[@JakeKlineMusic]

It's extremely interesting that you say this, b/c way back in the day 1v1 emerged as the only viable professional esports broadcasting game mode, because the team modes were seen as too complex for the average viewer to follow. If you're not aware, TDM already has a very rich history in Quake 3 Arena.

[@eirin099]

fully agree on this. team modes are easier to get into, more enjoyable to watch and easier to play with friends. its much more suited to esports nowadays too based on viewer preferences (which is honestly more or less the only thing that matters cus things need to go around) aslong as they let duels still be a thing and either host everything themselves or let the community host tournies.

[@tylerbrown9797]

I have had the exact same thought, payload would be sweet in a quake movement style game. I think it would especially be fun if there was a button on top of the bomb carriage that players have to stomp in order to make the bomb carriage switch directions. Instead of hanging out near the bomb carriage to make it move, you just have to keep stomping the button which rewards dynamic movement.

[@eirin099]

@@tylerbrown9797 aslong as it can be done without buggy movement this sounds like alot of fun! its kinda like the overwatch 5cp/payload push gamemode but with movement tied in

[@GroinMischief]

I always had most fun in CTF modes across the board, because there's so many different things you can arbitrarily decide to do there. You can be a defender, you can put constant pressure on enemy base, you can hog all the items, you can run for the flags or you can just endlessly hunt that one bastard who stole your LG at some point. The symmetric base-layout of the maps makes those encounters consistent also, so the stuff that you wanna focus on isn't going to be random like TDM. It's always been the most fun mod to me whether I'm playing it casually or in a tournament. TDM on the other hand is really only fun if you're playing it with organized teams. The things that makes it a good competitive mode are also what makes it a bad casual mode.

[@simonced]

Q6 needs good tooling for modding and mapping (that was the fun in quake2 especially, having so many character skins and models was dope!) and dedicated server that anybody can host. What is doesn't need is any DRM or anti-cheat, if one is caught, people vote and cheater is kicked, as simple as that.

[@dpear3]

Every time I play quake or a quake-like I kind of sigh at having to find weapons and how every fight on the map disappears the moment a power up spawns. I get that it’s a big draw of the format for experienced players, but for someone who has tried repeatedly to get into quake, it’s the biggest thing that just makes me go back to TF2.

[@testtube173]

You are comparing having decades of kbm experience in shooters and going to apex to the average console player having months or maybe 4 years aim assisted controller experience going to kbm and playing quake. It's not comparable to say you managed to adjust unless you both switched to controller and turned off aim assist and even then you aren't playing against a fraction population of highly dedicated players. I wish they would remove aim assist but that also is the reason the game is popular in the first place. People want to play and be effective fast not grind for decades to be mediocre later. I say all this as a 37 year old PC player that has accepted where gaming is. Love your videos and love the discussions.

[@c0smoslive391]

There are plenty of hard games that are popular. Difficulty is not the problem.

[@M4Dbrat]

@@c0smoslive391 Nearly all popular "hard" games are PvE and rely on some sort of crutch. Soulslikes are all about dying over and over until you learn the preprogrammed thing (level layout or boss pattern) that stays the same every time you die, knowing what to do is not a problem because you have no options, execution and reaction time requirements are also near non-existent (even parrying in Sekiro is just pressing one button in sync to a canned animation, no positional precision or aim required). Modern "roguelikes" have metaprogression to grant a sense of relief for every failure and guarantee you'll go further than before even if you hardly learn anything The problem with Quake is that it's the exact opposite of those things. Quake demands everything from you - understanding the mechanics, making quick decisions on the fly, working with low information in an environment that shifts constantly, reacting to enemies potentially coming from every angle and being able to coordinate your aim with movement. Meanwhile, losing only makes it easier to lose again, over and over, as the guy who killed you gets stronger and has easier time denying you the tools you need to even try having fun just shooting the fucker, let alone having a feeling that you could possibly win

[@c0smoslive391]

are you pretending that CS and Valorant don't exist ?@@M4Dbrat

[@testtube173]

@@c0smoslive391 You are proving his point. CS at the peak level is just people holding corners and lines of sight and you could argue managing economy but that is it. The mechanics typically stop with Aiming and a brunt of the skill comes from game knowledge and positioning. In this video RJN mentions apex having a ton of movement options and how difficult they are to perform but look at the vast majority of controller players not utilizing that stuff at all and are still wildly successful in the game with purely assisted aim with controllers. I am not advocating for Quake to give players aim assist but at the same time that is what the Developers are up against. Players have a choice to make :Instant gratification here: or :hundreds if not thousands of hours for potential gratification later: good luck winning that war.

[@c0smoslive391]

Ah yes CS is JUST that of course. Then i guess that quake is JUST about remenbering item timings and taking fights when you have a unfair advantage. So easy LOL.@@testtube173

[@ryanlafferty5815]

QC plays beautifully....such a shame it never took off

[@maxdamagus]

Also enjoyed Doom multiplayer. Slow as hell but some fun elements. Wrong about TDM though, that's the bread and butter.

[@anuragkoushik9292]

Hello rjn I came to fps 7 years ago and watched your videos then to gain some insight on mouse and mouse grip and since then i have played with only one mice in particular that's razer viper and kept upgrading till the latest to viper v2 pro but i feel somewhat capping my self with this mouse i wanna try other mice but I dont have such advantages or money to try all different mice shapes and options .I have a claw palm type grip with strainght finger and anchored wrist aiming on low sens my hand size is 19 cm and width is 11.2 cm , I came to your site but for my hand there were 2 very outdated mice shown. Can you suggest me any good options please?

[@Karaage_]

I think a lot of us are kind of on the same page as to what Quake/Arena FPS needs to be popular or more fun.

[@TuxedoVaileGAMES]

Honestly, I know you spoke against death match, but for me, I've been begging desperately for a modern Unreal Tournament or Quake Arena on console. I played all of the console versions of each series religiously, I just spam death match over and over, it's how I relax. I don't mind dying from spawn to a rocket Launcher, that's just part of the match flow, and you'll always get another shot. I'm not looking to "be the best" or outplay my opponents, stream, or set records or anything. I just want to zone out to deathmatch, if it's death match against bots, I'll set the goal of being able to consistently win and outperform the hardest difficulty of bots, sure, but it's more about the challenge run for me than being competitive. I remember in UT3, I worked my way up to winning 90% of matches against godlike bots, from there my goal was to win with a 10 point frag lead, then it was a 10 point frag lead with fewer than 10 deaths, then 5, etc, etc. I need that from a console game again. I don't like playing with other people, I just want to come home from work and frag people, or bots, from my couch for a few hours, then go to bed. I'll boot up Quake 2 death match on my PS5 regularly, and I still play UT3 and UC2 on xbox. I need something more modern, though, so I really hope Quake 6 can scratch that itch. No modern shooters come remotely close, Apex is maybe he closest but I hate using ARs, Shotguns, and Rifles all the time and I'm also a solo player, I'll always no fill because I don't want to have teammates. I hate being forced to play with teammates, but Apex, despite that, is still the closest modern shooter to being what I'm looking for, and it's still miles away from being it. I really hope Q6 just lets me mindlessly zone out to a high-speed death match. I really, REALLY hope.

[@user-ml8jl1fh7y]

Ik you said you didn’t wanna review mice anymore but would you please do a comparison with the super light and the new zowie u2, the super light is the only comforting mouse for me and I’ve tried many wireless mice but the new u2 shape looks super similar and slightly better but I’m not sure

[@BakedChocoChips]

Apex Legends and other battle royale games use several game design mechanics to reduce player "responsibility" for their skill level. So even if you are not good at the game, you can still do decent based on random drops and dynamic situations. You will still lose against better players, but enough randomness to not allow much better players to always win. but with Deathmatch and duel modes, everything is focused on the player's skills. So it becomes quickly demotivating to play such a game mode. I think Team Fortress 2 is a good comparison of a great casual game, that could even become a good competitive game as well: - objective based gameplay so casual players have something to rally around - spawn with equipment so you never feel totally unprepared, because the other team is camping weapons or items - enough players in a public match to add chaos and variety to the gameplay - the mechanics are deep, but even a beginner can do well enough to contribute to a match. Veteran players can pub-stomp, but can be ganged up as well. In Quake, Veterans can be so good that they can strangle the other team out of weapon and item pickups, so it just demoralizes the beginners. A movement based quake game with TF2 elements can be pretty fun. There are a lot of other games that can be a good inspiration too (Titan Fall, Overwatch, Tribes, etc.) but making a good gameplay loop even when you are fighting against better opponents is the key to all this, in my opinion.

[@shellnut]

personally i think one of the biggest barriers to quake going mainstream again is its reputation. ive talked to a lot of really impressive counterstrike and tf2 players that have this idea of quake as this scary, super hardcore ancient movement shooter populated exclusively by gamer gods. while this isnt entirely untrue, quake really isnt that hard of a game to get into or get reasonably good at. once people realize that and a new quake is publicized, i could see people being interested so long as there remains an even skill gap among the playerbase and a good series of incentives to keep playing/keep attention high.

[@RocketJumpNinja]

Yeah agreed, that's what I was trying to point out with the Apex movement thing. No way you can say Quake movement is harder to learn than all stuff in Apex, there's barely anything to Quake movement. But I also think if the game mode is really fresh and interesting, it'll attract the players.

[@jcquints3364]

the finals gamemode seems interesting, kinda like ctf with extra steps. idk if something similar will work in quake

[@waxedearth5425]

I reached Echelon X in Doom Multiplayer. I agree with your points, I enjoyed it thoroughly except when TokyoPunchout joined the server 😅 I was turned off by QC because of the loading times and queue times. May have to give it another go, interested to see how (if any) of my Apex skills translate. I think the new Doom series blew the doors off everything and attracted a huge, newer fan base. If they can figure a way to welcome newer players without rupturing the skill ceiling, I can see a new Quake being successful. :: Edit :: Apex gunplay and movement is goated but what brings me back is honestly everything else. The presentation, cinematics, music pack, voice actors. The feeling of being a superhero in-game and flying around the map. That’s just my opinion.

[@OVERFIEND]

Quake isn't hard. There are just no more average or mediocre players still online every day.

[@ionlywatch]

If everyone is a good player, no one is a good player.

[@HNedel]

I am not online every day, but I can assure you there are many mediocre players… like me!😅 I hate the non-existent matchmaking in this game

[@damsen978]

That's the problem exactly. Average players leave because they get stomped by veterans. And they don't want to spend 2000 hours just to finally manage to frag them once or twice in a whole match.

[@xjpfxei]

Bcos quake is totally skill based, which means quake is maximum hard

[@Guarrow]

It is hard tho, for a beginner. The skill ceiling is high, they just stand no chance and that's not fun for anyone who hasn't played the genre religiously. That's the issue.

[@dom5035]

I almost pooped my pants reading this video title, I didn't know about the Q6 leak and I'm so excited to see what comes of it. I fell in love with QC back in 2020 and I'd probably still be playing regularly if it had a larger playerbase and queueing for a duel didn't take 20+ minutes at it's quickest. TDM being the de-facto game mode really is a shame, it's fun for fragging out occasionally but it's so chaotic and doesn't really let the game shine like it should. Clan arena is SO much more fun as a team mode and duel, while it can be extremely anxiety inducing at first, is such a completely fresh experience for someone who's really only been exposed to more modern FPS games. There's no feeling like absolutely dominating item rotation while flying around the map and winning every fight, or clutching up a 1vX in clan arena. Here's to hoping they can do better with Q6 and retain a more respectable playerbase this time around!

[@michaelhaley1612]

Quake is the greatest shooter ever made and i wish more people played it. I got tired of playing the same 6 people that have been playing the game for 20+ years.

[@OmegaPhlare]

I really think the game mode of Apex is good for the fact that it lets new or lesser skilled players *feel* as though they have a chance to win or that they didn't just waste their time even when they lost. It might have something to do with looking for loot or getting the drop on opponents or being given ample health and time to flee when being attacked. I don't think it would ever make sense for Quake to be that way, because if someone wanted it to be like that, they'd really just be asking for a different game entirely. I do hope Quake can continue to be the top or favorite arena shooter game though. I would hate to see Quake have its lunch stolen because an outside developer decided to essentially take the Quake formula and gimmicks to it that should have been done in Quake. Every amazing new multiplayer game that takes the world by storm comes from a process of experimenting with gameplay and finding something fun.

[@pokeshark]

very much agreed, the main modes need to be with one with full weapons loadout and one with a singleplayer element. here are my proposals: - Clan Arena with respawn waves like in Diabotical (when you die, if any team mates are still alive you can respawn with a delay timer - time increases with each death). this creates more exciting rounds with a lot of push and pull.. and 1 clumsy death in the beginning doesn't mean you won't get to play in that round, meaning it's less punishing. - Freeze Tag like in Quake Live - mix of Co-op and Versus: 1 player is Ranger, the other players are ghosts who can go to idle monsters on the map and take control over them. goal of Ranger is to finish the level, goal of the monsters is to kill the Ranger player. whoever kills Ranger, respawns as Ranger from the start of the level and the cycle begins anew until someone manages to reach the exit.

[@djwgmail]

boring, full weapons loadout is shallow as hell and gets generic/samey quick, quake would not be interesting if that's all it could offer

[@SleeperJohns]

PvEvP? Destiny-like Raids (cooperative based mechanics)? Can we put that on the table? I've never seen anybody do it once for Quake. Wouldn't hurt to try. If I was a dev, that's what I would be experimenting with. Not that anybody cares about lore that much, but Vadri'gars cannot be killed -- only exiled to a different realm. And they're the ones that control those arenas you guys fight in. But like John Carmack said, "Story in a video game is like story in a porn movie. It's expected to be there, but it's not that important." But that was in some lines within the year 1996, but we're not in '96 anymore. So, it's worth a shot.

[@oscarandrade1643]

Honestly would love a game mode where you turn into a shambler. You could do it how doom 2016 did the demon transformations!! Add the Vore and any new big monsters they come up with

[@Triannosaurus]

I think they should make a really fun campaign experience that lets people naturally learn the weapons and high pace of this game. I also think they should make the game open source and allow creators to make maps and game modes, almost like what fortnite and roblox has done. Quake really has to focus on the more casual aspect for it to be a massive success.

[@ajahajah]

they need to be more innovative then just arena shooters mode. i believe allowing community mods would help create potential game modes just like how wc3 and dota came about. IMO, quake's strengths are its fast pace movement and trademark rocket jumps and air rocket shots. i hope they can make use of its strength for this franchise.

[@JamyzGenius]

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS QUAKE 6!!!!!! CAN'T WAIT!!!! - I would love if somehow they made a reference to quake 3 arena or brought some remastered maps or something or a character like sarge or bones. Some kind of reference. I wish hopefully to see Quake 3 Arena with modern graphics someday. That aside and if it will not have any Q3A content and maybe will be more like Q1 and Q2 that is ok. I am 200% excited to see what Q6 will bring.

[@klauth862]

For me is how the servers works. In q3 you could make a server your "home", where you went to play and chat with the regulars until you became a regular too. In champions (when i tried) it was random, and after the round ended it kicked you off.... it was so pathetic that you couldn't even play with your friends a 4x4 (did they fix that?)

[@Bigbean2999]

I love the duel aspect of quake like games to bad not a lot of people play it and I'm not good enough to play with the better players

[@tristan_tds]

Would love some UT style Assualt, Bombing Run, Onslaught like modes in quake. I much prefer quakes overall movement and feel, but the variety of gametypes UT offered was unmatched. All of that, along with Mutators and what not, would make for a great package. Armor progression systems similair to Halo games, along with some ranked modes would be great too. Also, in regards to single player, I think it'd be neat if they did both a Q1/Q2 style single player _and_ tacked on an arcade-style bot match one aswell (but use multiple modes and/or the afermentioned mutators). I know it's asking for a lot, but Quake needs a lot. So, here's hopin'.

[@AlphaEnt2]

If anything I think quake 6 will need a singleplayer coop option. Both doom 2016 and eternal lack such feature, and that on itself would add extra replayability to the game. Also, a good singleplayer campaign that will help introduce game mechanics and movement to make multiplayer more accesible, if you played singleplayer before. It's not the same start right into multiplayer that having 10+ hours of singleplayer to get used to how stuff works. I get your point, I am a main deathmatch player, but I barely play it against humans, because it's so difficult to find an actual working server, that I just rather skip the long hour queque and play alone with bots (or play a different game offline, or make my own game as well). Idk if it's the oldschool side of me, but I think it would also need some server browser? I want to find a server and see if there is someone playing already instead of waiting 10 or more minutes to find a match. Either way, whatever it happens, i hope the next quake does great.

[@Sean9in]

I love you that you just described titan falls ai bot as a gamemode

[@weok-doing-things]

Would love to have Quake 6 as a Quake 3 / Quake Live but with modern graphics and netcode. But it will be just a dream (

[@illastration1]

From a long time PC FPS player that has played Quake 3 arena back in the day, the reason I've always avoided arena shooters is because there's never been a game mode that has the same level of teamplay and co-ordination that you get from a team tac shooter like CS or a team based BR like Apex. The mechanics of Quake are amazingly fun though, they just need a mode that people can play together in Discord with friends. That is the key to maintaining a player base IMO.

[@spanium]

Balanced matchmaking in TDM would help a lot. When the game ends with 75:10 I type sorry instead of gg. I don't play duels, I just found the time limited format boring and exhausting. Round based seemed like an interesting fresh format. I only play QC, it's fun, it's brutal, it feels good. I'm not into single player at all. It's a lot more fun to play against an equal human - outsmarting your opponents, playing mind games with them. Aim, movement - yes, it's important, but I get the most fun when the enemy starts raging! That's a win for me regardless the score )

[@kazuar87]

Yes, balanced matchmaking is a must and not just for duels and 2v2!

[@VALIS538]

You forgot to mention how long the game had been out before they made time limit duel, they lost half they’re player base the time they bough that out, also you forgetting that more people were watching qc than playing it, qpl was a major selling point

[@augmented2nd666]

Most importantly, what made Quake 3 so successful was the way the servers functioned. You stayed together with the same players in a server from match to match, map to map. Players would actually be able to carry on a conversation, you could spectate at will. And that brings me right to another strong point, spectating. You could learn from spectating others, heck you could learn from spectating bots (and see how strong their autoaim was, something we dont get to observe in champions) And with spectating, top players in a server could spectate a suspected cheater, analyze their gameplay, record it, do whatever and get them banned. Spectating was a very powerful tool, and a way for players to chill out and chat while others played, or jump in at will. Another thing QC is lacking is good game modes, I see you prefer Clan Arena for Rocket jumping, which Unholy Trinity also has, both of which remove that weapon collecting aspect of it. I'm not sure why Impulse9 game mode still has self damage, but it would make sense to have non self damage impulse 9 in QC let alone a new Quake game. I've mentioned this on some other QC videos and twitter posts, QC would benefit heavily from incorporating some of Quake 3 Excessive Plus's mechanics into some game modes, Railjump, Lightening climb, CPMA movement for all champs when abilities are disabled for classic CPMA high speed movement gameplay, really just hijacking the QC engine for full blown Excessive Plus could go over really well. The biggest feature from E+ they could bring in is the missing weapon, the BFG. In E+ the BFG had a drastic rework as to the splash damage, which doesnt damage you, it propels you, but not the same way the rocket launcher does, it has a barrage of grenades, and if you get your angles right in corners of walls and or ledges, you can almost teleport yourself into another area, this made CTF really fun, better than grappling hooks by far. I honestly dont think there really anything wrong with the Quake Champions game engine itself, it could easily support a decent single player campaign built in, I dont know why they never did that. I also dont think it would be too difficult for them to add the features I mentioned including the addition of the BFG, hopefully as implemented in E+. But a whole new fresh Quake might be great too, hopefully it features multiplayer still, although I guess they all have so far, I'm not familiar with Quake 4 as I never played it, I owned the CD for years but never had a PC that could run it, and now the CD wont install on a modern PC for whatever reasons, I got the Quake bundle on steam recently but havent tried making it work through there yet, anyways, I havent heard great things about Quake 4 multiplayer, or its movement mechanics. Hopefully a new Quake focuses heavily on the classic strafe jumping mechanics, speed, weapon movement/jumps, and just the core of what made Quake 3 arena an amazing game. I also really hope they make CPMA movement standard, as I always prefered servers that had that, and I recall Quake 1 actually having a similar air control going on too, which makes it very odd that in QC Ranger has Vanilla Q3 movement despite his Q1 origins. I also hope if they do a single player campaign that it goes back to the roots of Quake 1 lovecraft style horror elements rather than the Quake 2 strogg and space thing. And I say that despite my favourite map is still Q3DM17. Never got into QL either, when QL came out I was too into E+ and CPMA movement to jump over to QL's Vanilla gameplay. Cheers, great video.

[@augmented2nd666]

For the record I've tried Apex, and the new Halo, I found the walking speed over the distances and size of maps insufferable. Also didnt like the high number of weapons, items, loadouts whatever, it was just too complicated in terms of non gameplay. And recently, I finally got Doom Eternal, and I'm having a similar problem with it, it feels slow, clunky for movement, and the amount of weapons, non weapon weapons, whether its chainsaw, glory kill, belch, grenade, etc its just too many things and it forces you to use certain weapons or non weapon weapons on certain enemies like a puzzle, this wasnt fun for me at all, it also had weapon mods, upgrades, skill trees, its just too much crap, its bloated. Hopefully a new Quake stays true to what makes Quake great, and thats simplicity while being absolutely brutal, its just raw aim and movement, thats it, and simple weapons that are fairly well balanced and have their own purposes while still allowing for variety, creativity and individuality. Doom Eternal felt like you had to just memorize a cheezing method for each enemy and know that if you see a cacodemon you just feed them a grenade for a cheezed death, and repeatedly shooting them with the wrong weapon takes up all your ammo, in which case you have to chainsaw an enemy for it to drop rainbow ammo vomit to pickup. I also found you couldnt explore every ledge or area in Doom Eternal, there were invisible walls in spots and that just felt lame, it was too linear. I'll also mention the wallclimb thing was highly unintuitive. Yup hopefully they dont go the Doom Eternal route. Sorry for the ranting, but damn I did not like Doom Eternal.

[@Wobbothe3rd]

You can spectate in QC but I get your point about the continuous server. You seem to vastly underestimate the complexity of QCs movement

[@augmented2nd666]

It wont let you spectate in customs against bots unless theres other actual players in the que, I wanted to spectate the Athena bot because I've caught her using a 4th grapple during an encounter within too short of a time to make sense. Also wanted to see from Bots perspective on nightmare how their lightening and MG damage work, as sometimes it feels like they melt health faster than the DPS should even allow, I'm talkin megahealth and armour, dead in less than half a second, just bairly tickled by LG or MG which sometimes doesnt really make sense. Anyways, I think you might be mixed up with your last statement there and meant Apex's movement, yeah I didnt stick around it very long as it just felt slow to me especially considering the vastness of the maps, same with Halo. They just feel slow in terms of the basic walking speed, and then strafe jumping didnt seem to do anything, I'm sure theres other tech I didnt look up like crouch sliding type stuff, but anyways I'm happy just sticking with Quake. If you actually meant I underestimate the complexity of QC's movement, I dont know, I feel I move pretty decently in QC and Q3A, I just really prefer CPMA movement air control, its just more fun especially on jump pads. Cheers.@@Wobbothe3rd

[@AP-hf9gs]

Rocket Arena/CA Mode, and a similiar mode like Lithium mod with further rune complexity pickup powers. Pack the best of multiplayer into one game.

[@trynaplay2603]

Something like attrition in titanfall 2 would be smart. Have some fodder around to kill and some kind of “turn into a badass” maybe a la QC instead of calling a titan down. Not my favorite mode but it was by far the most played on a game with a moderate player base that survived for a really long time

[@trynaplay2603]

I also think a competitive NON duel mode would be good. I don’t think most people wanna hop on with their friends and duel randoms lol

[@caiosaka1]

I once tried to start on Quake Live, got kicked regularly from servers for not understanding some modes/unsaid rules. Hard to counteract a community that (unknowingly) wants the game dead.

[@caiosaka1]

Also, Quake Champions is very good, but lacks charisma, which is very enticing to younger players (i.e. Riot and Valve competitive titles). This plus the skill barrier from stablished players makes playing it very unappealing.

[@pinballsorceror]

Warpath from Doom 2016 is an example of a great game mode to carry forward.

[@ccccjjjjeeee]

i love this tug of war / league in first person idea. to answer the question (i played a lot of Q3 and UT2004, then stopped playing arena shooters but still miss them sometimes): these days i mostly play to relax in the evening and hang out with friends in voice chat. - casual play needs to be fun (this is not true of traditional arena shooters imo) - there needs to be a way for console and pc players to play together (only big exception to this rule i can think of is pubg), ideally a better one than giving console players aim assist

[@gooz3006]

Quake = Best duel FPS, but bad for team-type game modes Unreal Tournament = Bad duel FPS, but superb team-type game modes, because of the translocator

[@MrEvilbyte]

I liked your idea of the Tug of War (player's vs enemies). Typically, PvE gamemodes tend to have lots of players. Whether it be Invasion in UT2004 (typically played with an RPG levelup mod), or Monster Hunt in the original UT. I would know, because I played Invasion a TON (I even became the 3rd highest leveled player on this one server).

[@Wordsman]

TL;DR: below I have listed the gamemodes I think Quake 6 should have and why they would work. At the bottom I explained a monetization system that SHOULD make it profitable while not fucking over the consumer. I believe what I have designed would serve to make Quake 6 a successful game in the modern market. Titanfall had something similar to what you described with merging single and multiplayer with Attrition. It was a points based tdm match with loadouts where you could kill mobs and npc's that spawn for points, but players were worth the most points. The calling down of mechs based on performance tended to lead to snowballing, but you never felt powerless and if it weren't for the horrible marketing EA did it would have exploded in popularity. Something similar to Attrition would probably work if they made larger maps. I think messing around with the concept of gun game could be fun as well for a casual gamemode! Everyone starts with, say, an instagib railgun, then as they get kills it turns to a rocket launcher, then a normal railgun, and so on until you get weaker and weaker weapons, and the winner has to get a melee kill in order to win. I think fleshing out the lore of the game would be cool too. Some people like apex because they arent just play "generic void marine #2947" they're playing valkyrie, the daughter of a kia titan pilot seeking to uphold her beloved father's legacy. Quake champions started down this path, and I think there's room for a "mini-warhammer 40k" asthetic in the shooter genre. I think incorporating well-designed methods of content creation into the game is a key to games for the future. Source Film Maker for example is honestly a primary reason why team fortress and csgo have lasted so long. The devs NEED to understand that fans making new stuff using your work is GOOD PRESS. That's advertising! Make legitimately open terms of service for content creators to create content around your game and they'll fill your game with life! For competitive play I think CTF, Clan Arena, and Arena are must haves. All of which could easily hold viewer counts if it's designed well, and the small selection of guns combined with gamemodes that dncourage creative strategy with the near perfect aim of pro quake players would be super entertaining and easy to understand. Like you said before, quake is actually really simple it's just HEAVILY optimized by the veterans. Lastly, monetization. I propose a 2-tier system: a single purchase to buy and own the game. You get full access to the entire game, all weapons, all gamemodes without restriction. You do NOT get cosmetic access, that will be battle-pass, live service, make-me-tons-of-money work. Also, I don't think it would be wrong to have a cheap subscription to the content creation suite if they get really desperate, but the money maker should be the cosmetic battle passes, and most if not all cosmetics ought to be turned off for competitive gamemodes. That's how I would design Quake 6 and I think it would work.

[@StaySic4Ever]

Definitely needs to be made well from the start in terms of performance, introduction and game modes to appeal masses. Rest can then just follow, as well as good updates.

[@ol1mar]

I realised that the most consistent fun I've had while gaming recently was by playing Splitgate, an arena shooter, and not a tac shooters that just don't seem to bring much joy anymore. I haven't played Quake before and I understand that the playerbase is dwindling (esp here in Australia) - should I start learning Quake Champs or give Live a go?

[@Wobbothe3rd]

Both. They're both fantastic.

[@milktruckdriver]

There are plenty of MP games these days. The next Quake should be a reboot of sorts, similar to Doom, and focus on single-player. The arena shooter genre is done for.

[@ryanmcshane1695]

I’ve played Arena shooters for 35 years. Imo, wipeout mode from Diabotical is the most fun I’ve had playing. It’s basically clan arena with respawn timers that increase in time with each death. You win a round when the other team is completely dead. Best of 7 rounds. This mode is in QL (Quake Live) too.