Quit Using Skirts on Your 3D Prints!

[@Bigdog1787]

I still prefer a skirt because it shows exactly where the printed part will be so if your using glue you know where you should exactly put it. Also a skirt will also tell you if the first layer is getting put down in every area before it starts the print this way you can stop the printer ahead of time if it not fully attaching to printer as the first layer is the most important that it's laid down properly.

[@BelviGER]

I've never thought "thank God I had a skirt" but man I can't count the times a skirt failed and messed up the first layer At most I have the prusa purge strip

[@eideticex]

I use a 3 layer higher skirt for an entirely different reason, protects the first layer from warping off the bed from stray drafts like that of my door. However this seems like a good first print of the day kind of thing to do. One of the problems I noticed is after the printer has been turned off and let sit overnight or longer, the first 50-100mm worth of plastic that comes through doesn't extrude very well. This has resulted in letting it print some of the first layer to get that out of it's system before canceling, clearing the bed and restarting the print for a good solid start. This Kiss method however done before the first print would help run the plastic out of the nozzle that doesn't extrude well and make sure it's fully primed and ready to go for a nice clean print.

[@yellovvcake]

idk why but thie site link works but the site doesnt give me any gcode down in the window or anything else

[@Purfunxion]

So, it's essentially how the Ultimaker 3 primes it's nozzles, except the wipe

[@beauregardslim1914]

Your actual print in your Test Print starts with a flaw. A close skirt or a brim with a small gap helps avoid this.

[@StephenBoyd21]

That will be because of the retraction. The printer will need to extrude the retracted filament before it starts printing. Which is what is seen in the video.

[@MrMuzza008]

1st time watching one of your videos. The first thing that came to mind was: "Hello, Newman".

[@jtjames79]

It's a kilt, not a skirt! /Janitor Willie voice

[@MakersMashup]

If I would have thought about that bit in Simpsons I would have put it in the video. Good one!

[@jtjames79]

@@MakersMashup that reminds me, my old kilt finally died I need a new one. If it's not Scottish it's crrrrrrrrap!

[@matneu27]

An interesting aspect. How about gcoding a connection from the skirt with a loop to the rest of the printed part, to prevent them roamimg around after the print. Anyway as long you wife found only strange printers skirts in the house everything is fine 😉

[@MakersMashup]

Interesting idea.

[@TommiHonkonen]

holy shit gotta remove the x axis extrusion from my vcore

[@lazyman1011]

Don’t have such problems. Don’t need tape. Useless material wasting tip. If you don’t like the starttestline, just don’t print it and start with a skirt.

[@geauxracerx]

Skirts are perfect visually confirming that the first layer will be perfect before you waste a bunch of filament on the part’s first layer… It’s really not that hard to throw the skirts in the trash, but ok

[@backgammonbacon]

Yeah this video starts with the wrong premise that the shirt is for purging....no its to give you early warning that the first layer isn't going to stick. Combine that with the petty first world problem of throwing it away and you have this completely bizarre help video. 3D prints need cleaning up so the skirt is the least of your troubles. Is on point for the hobby though...solving problems that don't exist or only exist because they have no clue why stuff works the way it does.

[@MakersMashup]

Sorry I don't buy that the purpose of skirts is to check bed leveling. Even if that was the intended purpose, it's a terrible tool for that. It goes around the object and doesn't cover the area where the print is. All it proves is that the area the skirt touches is level. With modern bed leveling techniques and tools if you're relying on a skirt to indicate first layer performance your printer needs tuning. On a tuned printer I see zero use of a skirt outside priming a nozzle.

[@geauxracerx]

@@MakersMashup all I just read was: The old ways don’t work any longer and thanx to modern bed leveling technology we have entered the golden age of FDM 3D printing and NO ONE has failed prints anymore But you wouldn’t say that, as it’s not true

[@MakersMashup]

I didn't say that and that's a pretty big leap there to presume that's what I was inferring. Sure they happen but with tuned equipment (as with any equipment) failure rate can be significantly reduced. This method may not be for everyone but it does fit a use case where skirts provide little to no benefit to the end user. For my printers the skirt is simply a waste of time and space on the bed. As always your mileage may vary.

[@heroflying]

​@@MakersMashup Skirts are multi-purpose. It helps to purge AND is a useful troubleshooting tool for prints. "With modern bed leveling techniques and tools if you're relying on a skirt to indicate first layer performance your printer needs tuning." Classic chicken and the egg here - you need tuning to not need a skirt. How do you know printer needs tuning? If your print peels off on the edges and corners, how do you know if it's just a warping issue vs maybe you're too far from your bed? Well, one thing that could help you figure that out? Skirt!

[@cxob2134]

For ABS prints that need a brim you can just add 1-2 loops to your brim and start without a purge line or skirt. Saving on material and getting some more function out of it.

[@SianaGearz]

The question is then really whether you need a brim or whether brim ears (bears) is better. Bears are normally less trouble if they fit your part.

[@AndrewAHayes]

I dont have a problem with skirts they go in my waste plastic bins as soon as I take something off the build surface, what I do have a problem with is ooze worms while probing, they get laid down with the prime line but sometimes when I take that off the bed they get catapulted all over the room, I suppose I could retract the filament a little before g29 but Im lazy and its one of many things I dont get around to doing

[@eideticex]

The oozing your seeing is caused by air being able to make it into the hotend around the filament, a better seal around the filament would help with that. It's the same effect as sticking a straw into water and putting your thumb over it. I used a captive o-ring just under the fitting for the hot end input, soaked in mineral oil to prevent it from gripping. Works wonders.

[@AndrewAHayes]

@@eideticex I have put a .5 retraction in the start code before the G29 and that has solved it

[@AndrewAHayes]

@@eideticex How does the air which is already in the hotend and rises up affect the melted filament in the nozzle and cause oozing?

[@PeterHertel]

I have no real issues with skirts but I'm willing to try this out, looks interesting. One improvement could be to have the nozzle bump off the kiss from previous print before heating up. I've purged lines on top of each other of I forgot to remove it.

[@DianosAbael]

Skirt is not a “nozzle priming” feature, that’s the priming line. Skirt is a control system for bed adhesion and squish. 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@glowpon3]

I use brims for extra adhesion for most of my prints, and to test for level and other sanity checks. I am concerned that you have turned your harmless plastic rings that you are trailing into the house into veritable caltrops of a Lego proportion. The first time you step on a kiss, you will kiss them goodbye.

[@falkien13]

So you've removed skirts and added Hershey kisses everywhere I'm not exactly sure what you have done to change the situation. I do like the kiss Purge but not really sure what you've done here.

[@ThatJay283]

i'm now printing without skirts. also, a pile of skirts behind and around the printer are a good source of kindling for if anything were to go wrong :')

[@profesorresor123]

While i understand all the pros behind it, i think the biggest con is how much material is being used in here instead. From the looks of it, those kisses use couple times more material then a skirt would. And it seems the smaller the print, the bigger the waste. It's an interesting sollution to the problem, but i just think it's too wastefull in the longer run

[@WilliamBaird-r3e]

I would agree to a certain extent, but i suppose you could also edit the "KISS" purge height and amount to do a smaller amount. My default prime line was going 180mm down and 180mm back before starting a print, for me, this is purging about the same just in a concentrated "KISS". Personally I'm not fond of using a skirt in general though, so I won't speak to the skirt opinions.

[@greork5492]

Looking at the G code generated the ADL will only probe 3 point, which is probably fine for a core xy machine, what if I want say 20 points

[@MakersMashup]

That j option is designed to only lavel the plane as it's relative to the probed points. There is little need to probe more than 3 since that is all that's necessary to determine the plane. This does NOT probe the bed to make it level. That's important to understand since J levels the plane. While it's an option to have more points it's largely unnecessary even on a Cartesian printer. If your bed has that much deviation in it's plane I would consider a new bed for the printer as you shouldn't have that significant variation across it. If your bed is trammed properly you should already have a nearly level plane.

[@gongarcia4071]

So... You are using what ultimaker did with their UM3 like 2-3 years ago...(?

[@MakersMashup]

I head that from some others. I don't own an ultimaker so if course wouldn't of known. Plenty of other Marlin based printers that can take advantage of the feature.

[@DennisWidehammar]

Cool, thanks for sharing!

[@grendelprime]

While I disagree, I am definitely adding this link to my toolbox. Thank you for the well-presented information.

[@rickstaggs2376]

Skirts are still usefull for low footprint surface area prints.

[@FilmFactry]

Your thoughts on using Firmware retraction?

[@novaleary4488]

Interesting, I could add this to my workflow but i still like having the skirt because it helps give me an ides om how my bed leveling is and shows where exactly my stuff is going to be printed. I could use this to replace the start line i use in order to clean the nozzle and ensure that my hotend is fully pressurized

[@MakersMashup]

Yeah you can use it with both, it all happens before actual printing of course. I also created a few shortcuts in octoprint to repeat most of these commands after a manual filament change. Just hit my purge button and the printer does the rest.

[@novaleary4488]

@@MakersMashup Sweet, I'll give it a test in Octoprint once I get some free time! ^^

[@treborrrrr]

Ultimaker does basically this at the start of a print as well and have been for years. They call it a prime blob. I still use a brim though, for the reason we can see when the print starts in this video. The first tiny bit of the line didn't stick properly, with a brim this usually doesn't happen.

[@MakersMashup]

Brims in my opinion just damage the first layer upon removal.

[@treborrrrr]

@@MakersMashup Sorry, I'm too tired to be commenting, I meant skirt. I try to avoid brims whenever possible since they're a bit of a pain to remove as you implied which can make the bottom of the part look a bit scuffed. Using a deburring tool for removal does help a bit with that though.

[@IronMan-yg4qw]

skirts are for thin pieces that need something to help get more surface area for printing. . other than that ur method wastes material on the kiss.

[@PeterHertel]

You're thinking of brim.

[@IronMan-yg4qw]

@@PeterHertel oh ya i am lol

[@PeterHertel]

@@IronMan-yg4qw happens to the best of us 😂

[@glowpon3]

skirts are for when you don't want a brim, but still want uniform flow before it starts actually printing your piece.