Race Is a Bad Proxy for Class

[@IDAMAN412]

This is the work that needs done. Thank you

[@noamchomsky1342]

It’s refreshing to see actual representation of leftist ideals

[@T1tusCr0w]

The real left isn’t all the woke crap. That’s a distraction from the simple fact that more and more people are becoming poorer every year as the rich get steadily richer. - Every moment the left spend on all the nonsense that social media fixates on. Is a waste of energy. Bringing up the economic standards of the whole working class would solve more problems in one thing that all the rest of it put together.

[@ORagnar]

When I think "leftist ideals," I think of the state having absolute control over your life. That's the direction they constantly push in from almost every angle and with every shade of subtlety imaginable. They don't put it in those terms, but that's where they always end up. Ayn Rand is the modern intellectual who offers effective counter to the left in every major area. Aristotle, Locke, et.al. are also vital. 1/17/22, 10:04 a.m.

[@T1tusCr0w]

@@ORagnar Ayn Rand is a very basic philosophy. She was all about the self. People are built for the collective it’s what made us preeminent amongst all the animals in our epoch. What your describing is totalitarianism. On the left communism on the right fascism. Both want to rule with an iron fist and no free will. I dislike both immensely. I’m for people. We are meant to be a tribe. Small villages where we know everyone and they know and care for us. It’s what our physiology is made for. Modern industrial society has made us all lonely and isolated. All the while surrounded by millions. Our only option is to consume. There must be a better way.

[@ORagnar]

@@T1tusCr0w "She was all about the self." That's true. She was an explicit defender of egoism. "People are built for the collective it’s what made us preeminent amongst all the animals in our epoch." You mean the individual is supposed to be under the thrall of the group? That's what collectivism is. It's the idea that your life is not yours. It's owned by others. Men are social animals, but they are not collectives. We are meant to be individuals, and what made man preeminent is his power to reason. It is our power to conceptualize through reason, to form concepts, that allows us to see long range and plan. "What your describing is totalitarianism." Totalitarianism is when the state has total control over your life. That's the opposite of individualism. Individualism, the foundation of America, is your life is yours and only yours. You have the right to live it and pursue your own happiness. "On the left communism on the right fascism." -- Communism and fascism are both forms of collectivism. Both of these ideas are close together. They can be contrasted with individualism. Individual rights are the foundation of a free and prosperous society. "Both want to rule with an iron fist and no free will. I dislike both immensely. I’m for people. We are meant to be a tribe. Small villages where we know everyone and they know and care for us. " Aristotle had the idea that societies could get too large, that there is some proper size for a society. He may be right, but if you are promoting free will, then you should be an individualist, not a collectivist. Also, remember, socializing does not contradict individualism. People can socialize as a matter of choice. That's the key factor, the right to choose. 1/17/22, 1:09 p.m.

[@orpheliaolivia]

Since people seem to not understand what better proxies for this example could be: 1. Homelessness 2. Household income 3. Neighborhood/location 4. Frontline workers (especially makes sense during this panorama)

[@jessd4048]

Actually no, Lettie Snidewhistle - the folks on the vent in my ICU are disproportionately unvaccinated- and they are poor, unhoused and from minority backgrounds. I live & work in Canada which has a universal system. Racial bias hugely impacts the quality of care and outcomes people see even in systems that are universal, even when there are robust social safety nets. The Jacobin left disappoints constantly when discussing health policy and drug policy. For a movement that claims it has the ideas and the analysis to take power it’s become abundantly clear throughout the pandemic that when it comes to the KZbin left commentariat the Emperor Has No Clothes. Two years in and not a lick of insight to be gleaned, not even a glancing familiarity with public health approaches or their history in the left, the important ways that public health *differs from the biomedical model* nor is there a satisfactory response to confront the single greatest threat to the global health we have seen in a generation. Plenty of reactive contrarianism though. Not quite the same as enlightened skepticism you will note. Maybe the left could find some time to talk to people with skills and knowledge, people who actually know how to do things besides talk about the minutiae of MMT. Sincerely, a socialist nurse exasperated beyond the limits of human endurance

[@yeahohright3097]

@@jessd4048 >Maybe the left could find some time to talk to people with skills and knowledge, people who actually know how to do things besides talk about the minutiae of MMT. Do you really think a professional will risk losing their job? Contradicting social progressive narratives in this day and age puts you at risk of having 20-something year olds demanding your firing. As for your anecdote, I have my own. When I was offered to be let into the hospital to see my dad for the last time before he died from covid, I saw plenty of white people in that ICU floor dying from covid. If this policy was in play and my dad had missed out on potentially life saving treatment because of the color of his skin, *official* policy mind you, I would have lost my mind even more than I already have. POC as a group are at risk because of the higher incidence of health conditions; sometimes created by racist policy, sure, but the point is that there's no causal relationship between race and covid prognosis. It's a correlation. So why would these bureaucrats put a causal factor and a correlational factor in the same category, especially when the correlation isn't even that strong? Why is a completely healthy black man and a white man with COPD in the same fucking line?

[@Askalott]

@@jacksprat9209 I used to watch Dimmy Jore back in the day. I stopped watching because I realized nothing was factual. I hope in time you see that.

[@beeson7110]

Really well done analysis and information. Can’t believe this policy actually was approved - it seems like liberals and conservatives alike will do anything to ignore class as a central defining feature in peoples lives.

[@dsnodgrass4843]

They will do anything to ignore class; because they can't credibly use it as a tool to benefit themselves and their friends. Because that's all they're both about.

[@peterrayson4397]

True, I think a lot of it is that people who are doing things right get tired of being called an "ist" or an "ism" for advocating basic things like keeping fathers in the home and studying. So not only do they move away from the poor, but they also disengage or self-censor in mixed-class groups.

[@ozzyhouston2535]

Class is a taboo topic in America. Corporate media feels much more comfortable talking about race.

[@realGalactus]

Ding ding ding! You go to PHS? Haha.

[@VenomRaven]

We love you Jen Pan. Please keep making content!

[@artmeditationvista1526]

You can do the same kind of disaggregation with Caucasian ethnic groups: Protestants, Catholics, Scots Irish, Jews, Hispanics, etc. Class stratification pervades groups intra-racially, which makes racialist approaches disasters.

[@bengrimm622]

Focusing on race instead of class is right wing propaganda. MLK Jr. told me so.

[@casteretpollux]

And Fred Hampton.

[@JMT1985MO]

@@casteretpollux MLK was much more complicated than that. Haha.

[@casteretpollux]

@@JMT1985MO MLK was more complicated than what?

[@TheRacismHandbook]

MLK focused on class?! in a society plagued by race ?! I don't think so. Please tell me where he focused on class over race, if you have the reference.

[@notnow3917]

Thank you for saying this!! I have been thinking about this for so long and it is frustrating to see how the fixation on race is clearly just furthering division because the elites benefit from our ignorance to the larger encompassing class issue. As important as racial inequality is, it is just one part of the huge class inequality problem in the US. Personally I think it is sad that class wasn't a massive part of the George Floyd protests as it should have been. There is so much overlap. Imagine all of the political energy that went into addressing racial problems also went into addressing problems of class inequality. It is nice to see that I am not crazy and other people see this as well.

[@howtomakeamonster]

I feel a that a flood of "class reductionism" accusations will soon follow after this segment

[@Based_Proletariat]

Because it is class reductionism. Let's not be dense.

[@themajesticspider-man6116]

Explain how it's not, then...

[@KC-ex7pr]

@@Based_Proletariat if so then count me in as a class reductionist.

[@BradSamuelsPro]

@@Based_Proletariat Class reductionism is what affluent liberals accuse the working class of doing when they demand better conditions.

[@wildrice8199]

@@BradSamuelsPro Often true, basically "You can't fight for class issues because that leaves me (an affluent person) out of the struggle. You have to talk about the microaggressions I face in my law firm office."

[@bootstraphan6204]

"TECHNOCRATIC TINKERING" and class obfuscation at it's WORST! Thank you for the insight and *AWESOME* segment Jen ❕👍

[@casteretpollux]

Agree with you so much on this. Workers of the world unite : we have nothing to lose except our chains.

[@Born-Liberated_EmpatheticWorld]

Thank you for speaking about this. The same issue also applies to Haitian immigrants and Haitian Refugees. Often times in Haitian businesses, in particular restaurants take advantage of this population because Haitian Refugees and Haitian immigrants don’t have the proper paperwork, know the laws or have access to assistance to know end their exploitation by their fellow Haitians.

[@davidstepanczuk]

Hear! Hear! It's about class. It was always about class.

[@MediaFaust]

Racecraft is a good word. I've always found it vaguely uncomfortable to discuss the concept of "race", mostly because it's both unscientific and (usually) a nasty can of worms in the political sense. Parsimony (and good form) dictates that one should never bring race into the discussion when the issue at hand can be sufficiently explained by class. However, the race concept is an excellent tool for those who stand to gain from the "divide and conquer" strategy, since it's not a problem that can be defined and understood easily, let alone solved.

[@cameronwixcey9692]

The UK government does the same. So covid was very deadly in the South Wales Valleys (poorest area of western Europe and some of the whitest and most Welsh areas of the UK) but they said that ethnic minorities suffered due to racism whilst the valleys didn't. Ethnic minorities were at risk because of jobs and multi generational housing whilst the valleys were at risk because of age and lots of ex miners. The only time I have seen liberals (guardian newspaper, the world's leading liberal newspaper ) delve past race/religion into jobs is to say Asians (Pakistani's) were only over represented in grooming gangs in Yorkshire (Rochdale, Rotherham) because they worked late at night at takeaways and as taxis. On a side note the UK would be more racially tolerant if the police had investigated promptly and had been willing to offend the Pakistani community. Instead they proved what the EDL was claiming was right and that they wouldn't do anything about it.

[@casteretpollux]

Again - class ? The police in Ireland leave poor areas unpoliced.

[@GaminHasard]

WORKERS UNITE HUMAN TOGETHER STRONG

[@Angelito_Noreaga]

I'm all for trying to unwind systemic racism, but if a movement has no class analysis then it can count me out.

[@YaakovEzraAmiChi]

Ahaha trust me. I totally know how you (the Asians and Pacific Islanders) who complained about the "rich asian"' stereotype. Like yeah, I too get that as a Jew. Well that and being cheap supposedly. When you feel like you should be rich and yet you're definitely not, it sucks. I so wish I was a stereotype myself. Then I'd be rich lmao 🤣

[@T1tusCr0w]

They will not say that being poor is dangerous to your very health and ability to stay alive. This would mean that in the richest country in history it is agreed that being poor is deadly. So it is agreed that a condition that a vast amount of people have is basically, quickly terminal. A condition that the USA could easily wipe out overnight. Yet it is preferable that many people die rather than share any amount of the vast wealth. America is truly broken. We will not last long enough to turn this around either I bet.

[@YaakovEzraAmiChi]

Problem with statistics and immigrants as many work under the table.

[@bengallup9321]

I am far left. Probably a communist, at the least, a proud socialist and Marxist. I get the importance and priority of class, I am here in good faith. However, is racism, along with other forms of bigotry, not also a serious problem? Why does caring about one problem seemingly have to rule out dealing with the others? I also think it's a bit weird how lazer focused Jacobin is on this recently. I agree with some of the points being made, but constantly harping on this issue, and communicating the point the way it is presently, imo, is going to alienate potential comrades. My 2 cents, anyways.

[@casteretpollux]

It's either correct, objectively, or not. Class is the biggest division globally as it cuts across every society . It has created the working class which is potentially a revolutionary class. Socialists oppose racism of all kinds but also point out that racism is deliberately used by the ruling class as a divide and rule tool against the working class.

[@farzanamughal5933]

I don't think anyone said race is irrelevant. Racial issues are still obviously important its just that class is clearly far more important in most topics of discussion (like the one in this video). Also consider the amount of attention the media give to race instead of class (this is likely on purpose btw lol), they act like race is the main division in our society (this makes racism worse btw) and videos like this are just pushback against that

[@casteretpollux]

@@farzanamughal5933 Yes. Its all about distraction from class issues that are fundamental to society globally, I agree.

[@zhonguocha]

Big agree. At the very least Jacobin should acknowledge that putting out “liberals care too much about racial justice” content on the internet WILL attract some unsavory and violent people. I can smell them in the KZbin comments section. Jacobin y’all need to manage these people if you’re going to bait them like this.

[@austinjonestyler]

Eugenics, is the word.

[@MiyagiSteve]

Damn this is a great video. Rock solid conclusions on a concrete, specific issue that wonderfully illustrates why technocratic solutions are often a waste of energy.

[@deyanstroughair5256]

Excellent analysis and presentation as always Gen. Thank you for continuing to teach and provide us with the tools we need to think critically and see through the subliminal, insidious and manipulative messaging/framing of much of the mainstream media.

[@user-wi3yx3gy2o]

It’s almost like giving special treatment to advantaged minority students or all minority patients just to try to bring a minority student statistic up or a minority COVID death statistics down us not the best way to help poor minority students or patients that are may, by demographic accident, be most at risk, or people at risk generally.

[@markpellegrin417]

Agree. Though, as you know, the intersections of race, class, gender, etc, are complex. Best leftist-strategy is to take all of it seriously. But, yes, class is always the one that capitalism tries to ignore.

[@mikedenver5341]

Jen Pan is brilliant

[@scottmcloughlin4371]

First, this is accurate, relevant and brilliant. Second, one of the major causes of this Technocratic Tinkering is the massive and debt-fueled overproduction of "Sociology" and "Economics" college graduates who far prefer "studying problems" (for fatter paychecks) than solve them. It's a truly massive problem.

[@BradSamuelsPro]

Great point about sociology and economics. Both fields are more like cults than scientific endeavors.

[@raphaelmt1706]

Fair point, but I would be curious to see how the funding of these studies is attributed. One could make the hypothesis that funding for studies about race as opposed to class issues is actually beneficial for the owning class. In that way, the accusations from the right that liberals want to foster division could be valid. It's not to say that right wingers offer any actual solutions though.

[@alexrempel12390]

Call me a class reductionist but this shit is literally racist. Constructing more pillars to hold up capitals ideas of hierarchy.

[@beetdiggingcougar]

Jen Pan is the new Michael Brooks.

[@Canes2311]

LOL NO

[@ethanstump]

if there was a new micheal brooks, it would be hakim.

[@XavierMacX]

@Mythic it's a gd huge compliment; no one is actually thinking of taking away her individuality. Jen is amazing in her own ways. Like, stop by and focus on actual bad things instead of your insecurities.

[@XavierMacX]

The replies to this comment literally exemplifying Jen's point about misdirection and they don't even know it. Hilarious if it weren't so depressing.

[@beetdiggingcougar]

@@XavierMacX I agree. If someone was referred to as the next Stephen Hawking there'd be people crying erasure! These people in my replies need to watch Jen's video segments because I don't know they are listening.

[@tired_alison5302]

Excellent segment!

[@carjam49]

thank you for this. It seems like common sense.

[@TheRacismHandbook]

If non-white, light skinned commentators sat in the sun for 6 months, and lived their lives in a darker hue, they would soon realise that race is the main social variable in the US/UK, and not class. All classes are racialised. Thus, class orientated politics will not solve the problem of racism, and social inequalities. But what is needed now, is a race-class politics/analysis, because the two are now entwined. By the way, Fields book called Racecraft, puts race at the centre of its analysis, not class, as I understand it. Pan gives a very strange interpretation of the meaning of racecraft. But I'm not surprised, since, she (and Thornhill), tend to be 'subtle' race deniers- who seem to give their light complexions no racial purchase. I'm speaking of race as a project of empire and colonial domination, and its colour-coded signifier.

[@svo4459]

Just going to pretend like IQ isn't the main factor underlying class which is influenced by race and ethnicity.. Okay..

[@thrashmetaldad]

I mean, people with darker skin have a harder time producing vitamin D from exposureto the sun, which has been shown to greatly improve your ability to fight COVID. Skin tone is literally a risk factor, if not "race" proper.

[@dboy8060]

where has it been proven?

[@thrashmetaldad]

@@dboy8060 googling it will show you scholarly / peer-reviewed papers and studies pretty much without any effort but you can look up Skin color is relevant to vitamin D synthesis by F Libon et al. in Dermatology. 2013.

[@thrashmetaldad]

@@dboy8060 race is a social construct and total garbage for how its used to divide and deny resources to the working class but skin color does literally have an effect on your ability to fight COVID completely outside the question of historical / current social disadvantage.

[@burgercide]

I am of northern European heritage. Mostly Nordic. I have very fair skin. My vitamin D levels hover well into the dangerous range without large daily doses of supplements. Yes, skin color can be a factor. I’m not sure how significant it is though.

[@thrashmetaldad]

@@burgercide it might not be a significant factor for you, but that doesn't mean it isn't significant overall. It's fair game to consider it a concern from a public health perspective.

[@pennyandrews3292]

Even as someone who doesn't generally agree with left-wing ideas, I happen to find what you're saying a lot more intellectually consistent than what the people you're criticizing are saying. It really hits on something that usually bothers me about these statistics, the feeling that they are focusing on the wrong thing. People I know on the right tend to have the attitude that the government is destroying small businesses and individual entrepreneurs, giving subsidies and bailouts to large companies and creating regulations that are nothing to a large established business, but make it impossible for a smaller business to survive or compete. In other words, there is a tendency to blame the government for being corrupt, easily bribed or lobbied, and tilting the playing field in favor of established players. It seems like the only real difference is that you tend to blame the people giving the bribes and doing the lobbying and say that they and their excessive wealth should be cracked down on because it makes them too powerful, while we tend to blame the people taking the bribes and listening to the lobbyists, and say that they are corrupt and going out of their way to expand their own political power. In other words, we have similar worldviews in some ways, but you fear the power of concentrated wealth more, and we fear concentrated political power more.

[@alynames7171]

Close. I'd say the left considers economic and political power inextricable. You can't democratize half of it and leave the other the domain of tyrants without corruption, coercion, and greed seeping into the whole thing. Try the book The Dictator's Handbook by Bruce Bueno de Mesquita and Alastair Smith. This book is much closer to a liberal (the technical definition, not American slang) perspective than left, but it does a good job explaining why politicians "just acting better" is unrealistic. Someone will always undermine the guy trying to do the right thing and the fewer people they need supporting them to do that, the dirtier they can be and the easier their takeover. If you want to minimize corruption and exploitation, you need to spread the "keys to power" consisting in material resources and productive assets as widely as possible. Democratizing economic power along with political power is the only potentially stable solution that doesn't suck for everyone outside the palace.

[@raphaelmt1706]

If you think liberals are left-wing, no wonder you don't agree with what you consider left-wing, liberals are just a different flavor of right wing.

[@smerdiyakov]

Yes this is a more or less the correct assessment (though a bit narrow). Part of what we are saying is the only force powerful enough to confront the power of the ultra rich is the government, because oligopolies are a threat to democracy. This is why people say things like every billionaire is a policy failure, because when the rich were being taxed enough in the post war era (also when banking was heavily regulated) there was a place for small business and more stability for the average person because heavy regulation prevented boom and bust cycles, over accumulation and resulted in a more equal society. That's why the left has long worked to expend suffrage, first by republicanism, then by civil rights movement and in general by trade unionism(collective bargaining) in the workplace. So that the state apparatus serves the people and not only the powerful, who are already served by the market (private healthcare or private education, f.e). So we want everyone to have right to those things, not only those who can afford to.

[@simonhorgan4140]

This is such an important topic and I agree with her completely. Unfortunately it is rather a taboo subject; just look at the number of views this video has garnered relative to the others. It involves ‘intersectionality’ so is pretty confusing, but was dealt with here admirably.

[@Manormouse-04]

While I wholly agree that medical treatment should absolutely not be meted out by any racial metrics, one must ask oneself why there is a link between racial identity and class disparity.

[@burgercide]

We know why. It’s called capitalism. Divide and conquer.

[@farzanamughal5933]

There is a link but why does that matter in this situation?

[@jameswistman7479]

weird wrap up to an otherwise interesting vid. we all probably agree it's important to analyze data, and then probe further, and one way is to disagreggate data. it's important, and if activist folks misuse "data disaggregation" as a label and driver of "race" identity, well then bad on them; let's be scholarly and keep analyzing the data. let's also accept that so many folks are financially illiterate (regardless of one's ancesrty/ethnicity or socio-economic class today) and many of these folks and others are not knowing as to economics; they may well also feel "class" discussions are somewhat a social taboo. Discussion of "class" often become cluttered with dense Economics constructs & lingo. If folks knew more about the language of Economics (including political activists), they'd probably be more comfortable with "class" discussions and less comfortable misusing both analytical labels and stereotypes rooted on our ethnic heritage or "identity." It may be wise to shift away from "class" stratifications, and instead focus dialogue on socio-economic groupings which consider one's ease of access to Education and Economic resources relative to others' ease of access to those resources. EZPass lane or still using paper currency?

[@joanneward6746]

I héard a theory that skin colour affects vitamin D status. In the UK the deaths amongst doctors and nurses, with dark skin, working long hours in hospitals (out of natural sunlight) who died were statistically higher than those of their white colleagues. Some were highly paid. I also remember a black woman underground worker who was pretty young ok, just my memory not proper science. But alongside the class aspect, having darker skin and being away from natural sunlight in our dark European winters is not looking great on the Vit D front.

[@casteretpollux]

Its very likely that both dark skinned people (and lactose intolerant people) and the working class are more at risk due to lack of vitamin D dark skinned workers particularly so.

[@farzanamughal5933]

Okay then help people with vitamin D deficiency (this includes people of all races). Categorising by race in this situation still makes no sense

[@57stapler]

As fun as the "class reductionism" discussions are -it might be possible that the people behind some of the "racecrafty" policies don't care either way and are just trying to get resources to/from their constituents -without regard to feeding whomever's mental problems with "racial determinism" -whether knowingly or unknowingly. Race is not a great metric for understanding outcomes. Class is a better metric, but not by huge amounts in a lot of situations. Dollar-based "class" does not capture education or location/housing choices reliably -in example. It's possible that shifting from race to class based metrics would signal the end, or ending of race-based outcomes -and racism generally. Signalling the end of racism is probably complicated in a lot of ways I suppose. "We" might not be ready to truthfully tell Persons of Color that many of our (their) outcomes are class-based, and not race(ism) based?

[@rashad123us]

The concept of Race is bad, period.

[@middlesidetopwise]

Just saying that is liberal compromise and exceptionalism. It’s not enough. We have to dismantle it.

[@bengrimm622]

Race is just a good indicator of your class.

[@AWildBard]

Yep. Oprah Winfrey is poor. Because she's black.

[@tradeprosper5002]

So the millions of poor whites are the exception to the rule? Seems like the race indicator is a pretty poor indicator.

[@bengrimm622]

I will clarify. This very common statement is clearly over the commentors heads. It means all colors can be low class. And the upper class doesnt really care what color you are. They just know black people are usually lower class. And they like to shit on all lower class people.

[@bengrimm622]

Driving while black is a problem...until they see Chris Rock in the car. Get it? As a poor white, I get pulled over more depending on the quality of my car.

[@DEWwords]

Man, the bots ARE THICK in this thread. ( I miss Ariella Thornhill though I'm very fond of seeing Jen, have to say.) Not sure what's going on with the shuffle.

[@DEWwords]

I wonder who's feeding the bots?

[@farzanamughal5933]

"I heard a theory that vitamin D levels affects covid deaths, categorising by race is correct" -🤖bot

[@JojiRyuKasu]

are obese people considered a class? should they be?

[@freddymarcel-marcum6831]

Don't give them any ideas

[@ISaidItIDidIt]

Solve the class issue in the USA, at best, it would work for whites. Not non-whites. The fact of their race determines their class. The gap between white and non white peoples collectively in the USA, nationwide, in multiple areas, for all these years, is not a coincidence. Plus being BLACK literally lowers the value of your wealth. Home for instance. So again, class only issue only at best is for white people's than non white peoples in a Ethnoclassist system. White people run the USA. By far. So if white people fix their own class issues it leaves nothing for non whites. This was discussing during slavery and reconstruction as well. Fix the race issue that determines Class then you can fix ALL class issues not just the class reductionist issues made for White eurocentric views. Marx and Communist were intended for class of white eurocentric issues not non white especially black peoples not considered human. The Marxist, Communist, and Socialist parties using class first reductionist that garnered black support, always betrayed amd revealed why race rather than class is the real issue in the USA. Just look at the history between the communist party and how they acted compared to others. The left and the right are flawed.

[@turdferguson3400]

There are real differences between races in medicine though. For example blacks are less tolerant of some medicines compared to whites. They also have higher prevalence of some diseases separately from their class. Black people also have lower prevalence of other diseases too. We can't be sure that it's completely class based and that racial differences in diseases prevalence are just a proxy for class differences. We still need to account for race

[@farzanamughal5933]

People getting healthcare should be prioritised based on how much they need it. If it happens to be that those who need it most are all black then so be it (but i guarantee it wouldn't happen to be that way). It still makes no sense to categorise by race

[@nuthasidr]

Does Jen Pen has a blog or some place where she writes. I think she’s very insightful and very humble. I love her and really hope she has somewhere she puts her thought in writing. Btw, I only watch Jacobin when it’s Jen Pen. Can’t stand Anna Kasparian - and TYT - absolutely. Remember the time she - Anna - bend her knees to the neo-con Madeleine Albright? It really show who she actually is.

[@VigilantnotMilitant]

Unifying scientific class-struggle universalism > PMC "talk about anything but class" pseudoscientific racecraft, subjectivism, communalism, nationalism, liberal wonk brain half-measures ("disaggregate the data"), grad school speak ("disaggregate the data," positionality vs position, etc)

[@dfwherbie8814]

Will there still be inequality on the basis of race if you get your class agendas realized?

[@alibitter6361]

Identity wouldn't become invisible and racial discrimination doesn't disappear just like that. But it would help a lot more people who are struggling to survive.

[@Erock322]

Considering the history of minorities being left out of the New Deal, it still needs to be considered

[@dfwherbie8814]

@@alibitter6361 many unions today are racist as hell. Even if we form strong worker organizations and coalitions, people’s minds won’t change. Racists and racially bias people will still mostly be in these institutions. Even if it’s Democratic. Why? Cuz as a blk man, I’m in a minority. Sure, I’m sure these agendas will help some. But they’ll still be inequality. So we (by “we” I mean blk folks) are gonna still focus on our community.

[@dfwherbie8814]

@@Erock322 it does. Agreed

[@ShazyShaze]

Of course there will. Some socialists really need to get over the delusion that socialism will solve every single societal ill.

[@QuizmasterLaw]

Maybe in the few remaining ethnostates? but in the U.S.A. it's absolutely a great proxy for class. Furthermore, Marx was wrong, the principle contradiction isn't class. Hitler was also wrong, the principal contradiction isn't race. It's nation, not merely race but race + language.

[@eiffe]

Nope. Class is the best proxy for class

[@QuizmasterLaw]

@@eiffe yes of course and this is why oh yeah, never held nor even seriously contested state power.

[@AdrianAlexandru]

This is just race reductionism. Also the very concept of race comes from white supremacists. Differing human "races" do not exist, they're not biological facts and have never been. This idea sits at the very core of every single racist ideology.

[@QuizmasterLaw]

@@AdrianAlexandru taysachs disease and sickle cell anemia don't care about your skin deep aka superficial views about race.

[@janosmarothy5409]

​@@QuizmasterLaw cool except we find sickle cell anemia cluster outside Africa, so maybe your argument is southern Slavs were black all along or what? fact is population genetics is really messy and doesn't map onto any bogus notion of biological race or "nation".

[@ancapistan]

Jacobin should be ashamed for its ham-fisted critique of identity politics. Having a female Chinese host doesn't make the tepid acceptance of racialized thinking (which again, is a feature of marxism as a biopolitics) any less hypocritical and disgusting.

[@raphaelmt1706]

Wtf are you talking about

[@alexloomis2398]

What in the actual fuck is your point? Can you create a cogent sentence?

[@claborn79]

Just making an entire segment out of this non-story is some Tucker Carlson Left b.s.

[@claborn79]

@@Jake-fw5te Yes, I'm aware of that. But in this case, Jen Pan is just following the lead of Fox News, which she often does.

[@alexstrekal6944]

Yup. Seeing a pattern with this channel yet? Jen Pan, along with various others and with Adolph Reid being brought in as the token black anti-anti-racist, endlessly rolls with Fox News style stories and exagerated claims about the "woke left", and endlessly does this vastly overstated, hyperbolic shpeil essentially telling people to abandon anti-racism completely as if it's mutually exclusive with socialism. They then proceed to advocate little more than soft social democratic reformism and claim that its universal nature addresses the social problem or makes it irrelevant because most people in theory benefit. The main commentators on this channel also commonly give leeway to nationalism, including Catherine Lui. Despite their pretense to being the voice of the far left, they're actually conservative deviationists in obvious ways to anyone paying attention. And in predictible style, jackasses pop up in the comments to tell us that surely only rich elites believe in what they call "woke" stuff, and that surely only neoliberals buy into things like anti-racism. It's not like there are plenty of regular class working people who travel in anti-racism and social justice concerns, and plenty of people from marginal groups who have reasons to look out for their own interests, or something, right? This channel's little narrative bubble it created is such a dumb, ham-fisted, white bro social democrat narrative and it shows in the audience it ultimately has cultivated. Essentially, social democrats with a social conservative streak or centrist civility politics tendencies at best, lead by a core gaggle of commentators who meet Lenin's definition of right-oppurtunism.

[@kelly980]

Nobody cares what you think. Libs are done.

[@claborn79]

@@kelly980 Perfect summary of Jen Pan's reactionary politics. Libs are bad!

[@ebsmith29]

I think that Fox News would love the talking points from a video like this one. I wonder if she has ever heard about Lee Atwater. kzbin.info/www/bejne/jpCbdmZ7g9d-qLM

[@Canes2311]

Tucker Carlson vibes....

[@kelly980]

Nobody cares what you think. Libs are done.

[@Canes2311]

@@kelly980 Baby I'm not a lib. Libes aint watching Jacobin lol. She put Tucker in her video then proceeded to push his message.

[@middlesidetopwise]

Does Jacobin ever have Black people on the channel? I don’t see any, and I’m hearing Jen call people “Blacks and native Americans” like it’s the early 1990s… 😬

[@oscardennis8912]

Yes, they have Black people on the channel: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qYSVead6Zr6obck and kzbin.info/www/bejne/bZm6epmMatV3rNk

[@DEWwords]

Bot, you said?

[@orpheliaolivia]

Genuinely how are you supposed to say it? Black people and native American people and Latino people? I am not American and I don't understand how these words are nagative in the first place

[@deyanstroughair5256]

Are you being serious?

[@middlesidetopwise]

@@orpheliaolivia Yes, you’d say “Black people” and “indigenous people”, as “Black” is just a descriptor term. To group all American people of color into “Blacks” is very outdated.

[@jrad410]

This is bad commentary