The Disturbing Ruby Franke / 8 Passengers / Jodi Hildebrandt Updates

[@RachelOates]

*Correction: **01:40** Prison Sentence of 1-15 years - sorry for mis-speaking or mis-reading my notes or something here!*

[@luna-qv3sc]

1-15 years per charge against them so a minimum of 4 years maximum of 60 x

[@nashjillian4450]

Because they're first time offenders their max can only be 30 years, unfortunately.

[@pageribe2399]

​​@@nashjillian4450 Yes, that is Utah law. My guess is that Ruby will be out in less than 10 years; she is a MASTER Manipulater!

[@raigenhuss7030]

@@pageribe2399I’m hoping the psychological evaluation sheds some light for the judge.

[@taylorexploresmore]

I’m disappointed and disgusted.

[@vintagearisen]

"Child abuse" seems like too polite a term. Let's call it what it was: torture. They tortured those children.

[@steggopotamus]

Yeah, I agree.

[@AeliaReadsBooks]

Agree

[@weirdgirl4611]

I think this surpasses the Flowers in Attic type torture. Those poor kids.

[@fionamclary7631]

While listening to this video I just kept thinking about the recent episode of the Dinky podcast, where they interviewed a woman who survived an entire childhood of torture at the hands of her so-called mother who was a member of the IBLP cult (which the Duggars are famously also in, and we know how well that went for those kids). Her name is Ali Davis and she is advocating for the differentiation of abuse and torture and getting more resources to survivors of non-war related childhood torture. I'd highly recommend giving that podcast a listen. You are absolutely correct, this is torture. Violence committed knowingly, with intent to harm physically and mentally, with no remorse and likely no hope of rehabilitation and reconciliation.

[@lisasmith7066]

Agreed.

[@Lostmyluckyshoes252]

The idea that seeing a child become “numb” to punishment means you should punish them harder and more is very dangerous.

[@transsnack]

I went numb once, after years of abuse and neglect. My abuser actually backed off for a bit because I think he thought I was going to snap and try to end him. Somehow, the man who beat a 5 year old was both kinder and smarter than Jodi and Ruby. Those two deserve to be under the prison, not in it.

[@hollyk7052]

In her own words, she spoke of the need to elevate or escalate physical ‘interventions’ to offset worsened behavior. She knew it was ab*se and used that word too. If she felt her innocent kids deserved this, she deserves worse.

[@natm2443]

We have a word for that in my country. We say that you become “curtido”. Which is, for example, the process leather goes through to become leather (resistant and sturdy)… Parents use it in exasperation when a child “doesn’t care” (dissociation, mainly) about being beaten anymore… They either proceed with stronger physical and/or emotional abuse, or neglect. It’s absolutely disgusting.

[@Doruss96]

Absolutely, and I read through the released diary and one of the worst parts for me was when she wrote sth along the lines of "evil comes out more and more as children are put in discomfort" to justify wanting to rid the kids from the "devil" while it's so clear the kids are simply acting out in the face of the relentless, horrific abuse

[@kxjx]

The idea that one should punish a child is dangerous.

[@hotelbibles]

THE FACT THAT JODI WAS HOSTING AN AIRBNB ON THE SAME PROPERTY THAT THIS WAS ALL HAPPENING IS INSANE

[@zoiesammons4511]

I fucking had to pause and circle the room when I heard that what the fuuuuck. I can't even imagine.

[@mckenziehedrick9210]

And I wonder who it was. It had to be someone from the program, because they were abusing these kids so terribly. You would think a person from the outside would have to be questioning what was going on.

[@Em_Elizabeth]

It's like she was asking to get caught

[@killthepandas.]

@@Em_Elizabeth More like she was so insane that she thought she would NEVER get caught

[@wormwoodcocktail]

@@mckenziehedrick9210 There was a separate wing to the house. I think they called it the “casita” or “mother-in-law suite”. Jodi and Ruby probably locked the kids in the vault under the stairs, which was directly beside the living room where the _Connexions_ videos were filmed.

[@laulau194]

The fact that Jodi and Ruby would dismiss someone like Rachel as selfish and heartless for choosing to be childfree, when she so easily demonstrates compassion and empathy for the children they horrifically abused and tortured is absolutely enraging.

[@larissabrglum3856]

I've never seen it more clearly demonstrated that having/wanting children and caring about children are two different things

[@AChickandaDuck]

Absolutely. I can’t help but think that part of Ruby’s situation comes from her Mormon upbringing which taught her motherhood was the most important thing a woman can ever do and that not having children isn’t an option for a righteous person. Why else would someone who clearly hates her kids decide to have 6 of them??

[@megashawnx4427]

I know that c abuse is a difficult thing to discuss and can trigger traumatic memories in many people. I am glad you are going deep into what those two monsters did to those kids. Jodi and Ruby are poor excuses for human beings and should rot in prison for life for their atrocities against those children. I am proud of everyone who is speaking out against c abuse. Thank you, Rachel.

[@edyoll]

Rachel is my fave child free person bc she acts normal abt kids even if she doesn't want them

[@hagendf]

It reminds me of the movie Idiocracy, where the premise is that the idiots are the ones having the children and normal people are the ones who don’t.

[@marlikesun]

It's so unfair that Kevin gets to even try to win his children back. I just don't believe for a second anything he says. The kids will just go right back into abuse, even if it's not physical, and if Ruby is released between the next 8 years, she will be back in their lives before they turn 18 if Kevin is the one in charge. I hope with all my heart he doesn't win custody

[@barbararab6390]

I hate how he's getting nit even a slap on the wrist for all of this. Dude ignored the abuse and let that happened for YEARS, why tf isn't he in jail

[@salyx]

I have seen people actually defending him! Just no.

[@Myelllie]

I think Ruby and Kevin were in love with each other, they never wanted children but did anyways because it was their faith. From the start they talk about the children as if they are burdens. That's why Ruby only cries over their relationship during her sentencing, the children were placed with the police and justice system and then she had a whole sob fest about Kevin. Kevin rarely speaks about his kids, heck lets not forget that he wanted his daughter arrested. I don't think he cares for them and even if there is a part of him that does I don't think it's going to be enough to get these children through their trauma. He might put up with them for a few years but he lacks the compassion to do it long term. He's not as bad as Ruby but he's not what these children need.

[@rachelhansen2417]

@@salyxI’m definitely empathetic to his brainwashing, but even with that taken into account, he absolutely should not get custody. Those kids deserve a clean break with a lot of therapy.

[@marlikesun]

​@@Myellliethat's actually the impression I get as well. I wonder if the reason some women turn to these extreme religious child "training" practices is because they never wanted kids, and since they're forced to, now they let out all their anger and spite onto the children, like they're the ones who ruined their lives by existing

[@w0rmg0rl]

seeing that child scared to move, scared to interact, scared to eat... and how ridiculously hungry she must have been for the food to finally break her out of her catatonic state.... absolutely harrowing. this is extreme physical and psychological abuse the likes of which I've only heard of in the context of war crimes.

[@barbararab6390]

The fact that they are terrified of acting like kids.

[@briandaaranda9735]

I saw someone make the comparison of how the girl looked compared to the heavily abused dogs at shelters, the ones who can't even tremble because they're so scared. No child should have to go through what these children went through.

[@angry-lucky-catty]

Is that cage in the room for E? Was she caged as well?

[@latronqui]

Right? Like someone being freed from a concentration camp. With the shaved head and all.

[@angel127_]

@@angry-lucky-cattyi wouldn’t be surprised if she was locked in a cage …

[@lenorebunny]

These peoples adult expectations of infants and toddlers are mind boggling

[@samwindmill8264]

Exactly! It's totally out of whack with reality. A 2yo is "experimenting with lying and deceitful behaviour"??? Yes Ruby, a 2yo is totally malevolent and "living in distortion" or some other such madness...

[@raigenhuss7030]

@@samwindmill8264my mom used to always say how much I lied when I was little and make me feel really bad about it. One time in therapy as an adult I said “oh yeah well I lied a lot as a kid” and my therapist said “you know that’s developmentally appropriate, right? All kids lie” and that was like 🤯

[@samwindmill8264]

@raigenhuss7030 I'm so sorry you had to deal with that, your mom needs SERIOUS help, if she's still with us and/or redeemable as a person. These people are so bizarre to me. It's madness.

[@raigenhuss7030]

@@samwindmill8264 she is still with us, but no, not redeemable! I’ve been no contact for a little over a year. Therapy has helped me A TON

[@Happytravellerkimmy]

​@@raigenhuss7030little kids lying is super important for their brain development because they're learning a) they're separate people from their parents and b) the difference between reality and what's made up. I think it's important then for the parent to gently explain what a lie is, why we generally consider it wrong, and what kind of boundaries/ consequences there are when people lie. I think that's one of the important parts of parenting: explaining the world to your kid so they're ready to be a decent person when they go out and interact with the rest of humanity. But I'm not a parent so my opinions don't count😂

[@manic_girl]

I keep saying “I can’t believe it’s even worse than we knew” and it keeps. getting. worse. The video of the rescuers sitting with E absolutely broke me. I cannot believe how bad it was. I don’t have the proper words for what I feel. I hope R knows he saved his and his sister’s life. He is a hero. I cannot believe how much they endured. Those kids deserve nothing but peace, privacy, and healing.

[@steggopotamus]

And I'm realizing it's probably worse when you think of whatever is redacted in the released journal.

[@hoennfanboy]

The video absolutely just broke me too. Im choked up and this is something i cant hold tears back for. Those children were failed by every adult around them for way, WAY too long. Including the previous cps calls. Its beyond sickening. Take it easy, youre definitely not alone in feeling like this. Any person with a heart feels the same way.

[@AshChiCupcak]

What made me sick was in the court room, Ruby put all the blame on Jodi and so did her family. Even wrote letters saying we want her to be "The loving and caring mother she was before" WHEN? WHEN WAS SHE? She was always bad before Jodi, she just made it worse. And they want her to be able to get out so she can "reconcile" with her kids. I'd NEVER forgive her.

[@ashbaybay]

i just watched the 20/20 episode and poor R when he was made to sleep outside wrote a message in rocks "jail call you when i get there" because he thought HE would be in trouble. i sobbed this case is so heartbreaking but at the saem time so interesting

[@mandeanraje2300]

​@@steggopotamus exactly. I can't even imagine. They should have gone for attempted murder because that's what it is.

[@ouijacorn]

That bodycam footage of that poor little girl sitting motionless is one of the most gut wrenching things I've ever seen. Edit: Kevin hand-waving away the early signs of abuse pissed me off so badly. Saying "oh people cancelled us because E went to school without lunch one day". Like, NO. The problem isn't that she forgot her lunch, the problem was that Ruby refused to bring her lunch when she forgot it and *said out loud* that she hopes she goes hungry and that nobody feeds her. And that was three or four years before we know what we know now, and look at what became of it. Shame on him.

[@deborahpoole9710]

Neither of them should ever have custody of those precious children ever again!

[@Roadent1241]

​@@deborahpoole9710 And no living being whatsoever! Maybe a weed like a dandelion but....

[@Nopee906]

​@@Roadent1241 They don't deserve even dandelions. They deserve the concrete of a jail cell. Kevin neglected them. He did not make sure they were safe. How long do you not have to see your children before they look like that? Disgusting.

[@Caldella]

I have to give credit for the officer being patient and explaining everything to her, and giving her time to respond to things when she wanted to. Forcing her to come along with them would've just added to the trauma.

[@shaylafey]

cults like this can fuck with people alot, was he a stand up dad before, who knows, probably not. But with some support and proper counciling he may be able to be a good dad to the kids, who will need as much support as they can. Kids who are able to maintain healthy bonds to family and community, when its safe, do much better. @@deborahpoole9710

[@sylvan-dreams]

learning how to lie is literally a developmental step???? everything should be about themselves. thats how babies literally work. they need help in every aspect of their life because they are BABIES. some people really shouldnt have children my god. yes i know it gets worse

[@steggopotamus]

Yeah it's weird because she gets close like "all two year olds have this phase" and the advice to make it physical might be good to say "You did not get the cookie from your sister, your sister is here" etc. but it clearly went off the rails where she decided to go beyond that. It's an example of how these channels can be so dangerous.

[@transsnack]

​@merulaamethyst2248that's how I ended up a chronic liar for several years. I was abused and I knew that telling the truth about even minor situations would end in a lot of pain, so I started to lie to avoid the worst of it. Even if it didn't work, it was worth the risk. I bet those kids picked up the exact same habits. Sometimes it's the only way to survive.

[@Luxiverse.]

they’re literally supposed to be selfish in order to find out what the concept of self even is????

[@XYZ-kb3mm]

@@Luxiverse. i’m sure people like Ruby and Jodi love to disrupt a child’s process of creating themselves as much as possible for maximum demolition of the child’s will

[@advocacynaccountablity]

It's literally a necessary part of developing children's personhood, to lie. And our job as adults is to guide them, not to punish them for hitting developmental milestones. These women are ill. They cannot be around vulnerable people ever again.

[@raigenhuss7030]

I can’t believe how thin those kids are. They look like concentration camp survivors. If they had succeeded in moving them to Arizona, they would have died. So proud of the boy for finding help. That was so brave, especially knowing that he tried and failed to escape earlier in the summer.

[@larissabrglum3856]

My great-uncles were in the literal gulags when they were young adolescents and somehow even they weren't treated this bad

[@WHHBU]

Ruby specified in her journal that she was ONLY feeding E and R lentils, rice, beans, and plain chicken as well, R asked her for different kinds of food and she told him the demon didnt deserve to be fed

[@barbararab6390]

I hope the guards take that into account when she asks for food

[@AshChiCupcak]

​@@barbararab6390Unfortunately her family will probably put all kinds of money on her books so she can order her own food in there. I just hope her fellow inmates let her keep none of it. Women's jails are full of mothers, they are not gonna be happy with her.

[@QueenOfCatsX3]

​@@AshChiCupcakEh. it looks like she's been largely estranged from her family for a while. They've also supposedly called CPS on her before. If anyone's sending her money in jail though, it's her husband.

[@AshChiCupcak]

@@QueenOfCatsX3 Her family sent multiple letters to the judge begging for forgiveness and a lighter sentence so she can return to her kids. Ruby played them hard and put all the blame on Jodi and they believed her. They are right back to supporting her as if she can be redeemed from this.

[@Roadent1241]

The logic that confuses me is that they deny them food then expect them to have energy to do chores to earn food with. Then have the gall to call them difficult and disobedient for being unable to do things she can do with a full diet and sleep and self care?? What demon though??? Why is her psychosis worse than mine??? Why does she think any of this is OK?????? What makes anyone think anything like this is fine?????? I hope she gets treated the same way in prison.

[@RedHotMessResell]

That man's wife was like "you're such a good little boy." that made me tear up.

[@briandaaranda9735]

He probably had never heard those words in that order in his entire life. I hope he knows that he saved his sisters. I hope he knows how brave he was. I hope he can heal from this and live a happy life.

[@rebeccat9389]

Me too

[@thelegendofkayla]

I was thinking about how much bravery it must have took him to ask for help from the neighbor seeing as how many adults have failed him and his siblings in their lives so far.

[@nerdoftheatre]

37:25 I never realized until now - Jodi isn't concerned about the kid. She's more worried about worrying about disrupting the Airbnb guests. Not one care about the child but more about the guests. Those kids deserved so much better. I hope they are starting to heal.

[@leelee2925]

Just like when the father, Kevin was at the PD not once did he ask if his children were ok. More worried about Ruby

[@lingodelfo5415]

I don't think she cares, I don't even believe there are any guests. I think she delusionally and desperately thinks the officers would be like "oh, sorry ma'am, didn't mean to interrupt your business, the pillar of corporate America, of course I will leave your property, have a good day"

[@Itri_Vega]

I'm willing to bet she is also more worried about losing face in front of the guests than the actual guests.

[@AW-uv3cb]

Ruby's diary is INSANE. Completely and utterly PSYCHOTIC, she seems to be operating in some horrifying distorted alternate reality. So glad that she's in jail, but she should actually be in a psychiatric prison ward.

[@angry-lucky-catty]

Agree, but only because psychiatric prison wards are far harder to ever escape.

[@barbararab6390]

The way she talks is insane. Like her kids arent human

[@kkturtle12]

It is astounding how disconnected she seems

[@ivanpetrov5255]

That part of the video was the most disturbing for me. How do you brainwash yourself into believing that hurting your own children is love? I can understand how someone can hate their children and hurt them. But to claim this is "loving them"? Absolutely insane.

[@senanurdemir3981]

Honestly? I'll be playing armchair psychiatrist but she sounds like the absolute bottom of the barrell narcissistic parent. She is so self righteous and smug that she can do no wrong so everything is the children's fault. They cut contact and disavow her the moment they are of legal age? It's "obviously" because she did everything right and led her children to truth and it's the children's fault for not being grateful. The children are being toddlers and lying and play fighting and being loud? It gives her a headache so now obviously the children have agency from day 1 and are doing everything wrong because they're demonic. She tortured her children and got a sick satisfaction from it because she could not admit that she was not self-aware enough to be a parent. Jodi and her just fed each other’s tendencies and beliefs, being the yes man to the torture. Kevin is not innocent either because he's simply an enabler if not another abuser.

[@rosiered2357]

Rachel, I think you are deeply affected by this case and the injuries the poor children suffered. Please look after yourself and your mental health . Sending you a huge hug

[@remedy836]

It’s…horrible and heartbreaking that strangers care more about these children, that strangers are crying more for these children, than the people who were supposed to love and protect them

[@kokushiibou]

jodi was a catalyst. she escalated the preexisting abusive environment from traumatic to life threatening. but the biggest betrayal comes from the parents. ruby was cruel and selfish to create the abusive environment for this to happen. kevin lacks so much parental attachment for his own children that he allowed his wife’s financial attachments to jodi to prevent him from seeing his own children. he allowed a stranger to take his children and didn’t attempt any legal intervention. as someone who was raised in a religious cult, i know firsthand that the hatred for the cult leaders comes naturally. we don’t need someone to tell us that jodi is a villain. but the resentment for the parents who betrayed the children by letting the villain inside the home gradually increases as time goes on. you feel betrayed, angry, frustrated. “do my parents not love me enough to protect me? do they not care? they must love me, so maybe i really did deserve to be raised like this. maybe it wasn’t that bad. or maybe it is a cult. and if so, why can’t they snap out of it so i can have my family back?” it’s hard for me not to absolutely hate the parents. i don’t care how brainwashed kevin is, personally. he doesn’t understand how he caused this. how he created this environment. how even the things he did pre-jodi were abusive and just laid the foundation for jodi to enter the stage. and ruby is a parent by technicality alone. she treats those kids like her biological accessories. fuck them. i hate them so fucking much.

[@hydrogen3266]

And Jodi is a nasty person with a history of abuse. She was a therapist sanctioned by the Mormon church, and she often practiced unethical therapy tactics. She also has a niece named Jessi, who has spoken up about the abuse they suffered while living with Jodi, and how they weren’t believed. Similarly, they had to escape and hitchhiked away and lived in a homeless shelter because that was better than living with Jodi. (I highly recommend their 2 interviews with Mormon Stories podcast, Jessi is a wonderfully articulate person) Jodi is opportunistic and abuses her power and authority as a therapist (again, sanctioned by the Mormon church!). These people are often vulnerable, and she exploits that to execute her own cruelty. In the case of Ruby, I believe she likely gained her trust, then started building off of her preexisting philosophies of abusive parenting into something more extreme. Jodi is for sure a cruel and depraved individual, and Ruby is just as vile for going along with it and believing that this was “parenting.”

[@AnnaThorley]

Also as a mamma of two, I am not ever prepared to entertain the idea that my kids are not in my life. My kids don't owe me unconditional love. I owe them unconditional love. I will always love and will always treat them with dignity and respect. The stuff they are saying is wild to me!

[@transsnack]

Ironically enough, that mindset will go a long way to getting unconditional love from your kids.

[@mckenziehedrick9210]

YES! We chose to bring our kids into the world. They had no choice in the matter. They owe us literally nothing. Its us who owe them everything.

[@sadrabbit53]

I am so, so glad we're not hearing the kids' autopsy reports instead of general police and hospital reports. This so easily could have ended up a whole lot worse. Edit: Listening to Jodi's calls was terrible. That woman DOES NOT UNDERSTAND what she's done, and that's f**king DANGEROUS. If/when she gets out, she should never be allowed to practice as a psychologist/therapist ever again, and she needs to stay as far away from any child as a sex offender is forced to.

[@swhite5840]

She needs to not get out for a very very long time. Her delusions are so dangerous.

[@samwindmill8264]

"Satan has been coming at me" 😑 yeah, she's totally insane one way or another.

[@mst3kharris]

R is rightly lauded as a hero for escaping and bringing attention to his and E’s plight. However, I also want to celebrate E’s bravery. She endured so much: being starved and injured, having her head shaved, going without water. When the police found her in the closet she was too frightened to move or speak, but after four hours and some pizza, she found the strength to walk out of that closet. E held on until help came, and lasting that long can be the hardest part. She’s a hero too.

[@epicskyline]

...imagine being the AirBNB guests at that moment. Imagine realizing there were two abused children in the same house as you.

[@mckenziehedrick9210]

They were making the kids work outside for hours without proper attire. I feel like whoever was staying there had to be someone from her program. I think she was just trying to say whatever came to mind to make the police feel sorry or like they had to stop.

[@iciajay6891]

I'm a csa survivor. Sometimes, there is no reform that could ever work or even begin to make up for the horrific damage these ppl do. Jody also survived horrific abuse. And even knowing how soul crushing it is, decide to abuse as many ppl as she could. She can not ve reformed

[@mikalcarruthers]

I'm so sorry you had to go through CSA. I just hope you're doing alright and yeah, I damn sure agree with THIS. Ruby and Jodi does not deserve reform

[@simplyharkonnen]

Many people can’t. Liberals (in the actual sociological/philosophical sense, not the American rightoid smear against anyone left of Goebbels) seem allergic to acknowledging that there are, in fact, pathologically and intractably antisocial psychotypes.

[@lindseystein9676]

I’m a firm believer in treatment for inmates and inmates usually can be “reformed” with proper treatment and help, but there are rare cases like Jodi here I think are beyond helping.

[@Itri_Vega]

I'm also a survivor and my abuser is running free. She fled the country and had another child, then did the same things she did to me to her animals. Got a fine... and three years later she got her animals back. There is no justice. It would not surprise me if this woman is released early. I wish Ruby and Jody the worst.

[@lemin0u]

what kind of abuse did she experience? i can't find anything about it

[@laurelinvanyar]

Ruby's journal sounds incredibly close to the material written by Lori Vallow before she murdered her two children.

[@chloebeall4011]

I am so glad they survived this, I really don’t know if they would have if it continued

[@sorcererinasweater7670]

And they’re both Mormon. That isn’t a coincidence

[@jennahart84]

That's absolutely where this was headed. I cannot *fathom* the sheer courage of child 1, to make an escape. It gives me chills to think of it, I doubt I could be that brave. That poor child, I want to hold him in my arms, on the couch, under a soft cozy blanket with snacks and comfort tv until eternity. 😭

[@barbararab6390]

It seems like that was the way it was all going until the kid escaped

[@megashawnx4427]

Ruby and Jodi are two real-life villains.

[@ayannadivineempath]

Another comment as Im watching - DO NOT FEEL SORRY FOR KEVIN. He is an enabler and part of the abuse not not protecting his kids. Took my years of therapy to realize then overcome the failings of the other adults to protect their own children. F kevin too.

[@briandaaranda9735]

Where I'm from, we have a saying: "He who holds the leg is as guilty as he who slays the cow." Kevin 100% should NEVER get access to any of these children ever again.

[@barbararab6390]

Kevin is just as abusive. The difference is that his abuse was being a spineless coward who would rather let ruby do whatever she wanted as long as he got sex and money out of it

[@hydrogen3266]

I feel like the word neglect should get thrown in here too. How can you just be okay with not seeing your kids for a year, not know where they live, and not know they’re being tortured/abused? It’s abusive and enabling, especially when there were so many red flags, but he just turned the other way, which is neglectful to such a high degree. And neglect is a form of abuse too. I agree with you all. F Kevin

[@kevinjohnson7418]

Funny that if it was the other way around you all would be saying the wife was abused too. Can’t have it both ways. Read healing from hidden abuse. He was trauma bonded and those two had him convinced that he needed to go work on himself to get back in the family while they screwed each other. Half of the abused are men even if you can’t wrap your mind around it.

[@ayannadivineempath]

@@kevinjohnson7418 found her husband this guy let her keep the kids around someone he thought was demonically possessed then ran away cause it's easier than trying to care for the kids he made. Enabling and supporting abuse has no excuse even if he was being abused too and it does not negate that he was probably abused too because it sounds like he was in a codependent narcissistic relationship and he was the feeder. But that does not absolve him of his crimes against his own children by not taking responsibility. Two things can be true. Victim AND victimizer

[@Melissa-zh3zl]

The absolute silence and stillness of the child in the police footage is terrifying. I have younger siblings; kids aren’t like that. The amount of horror it takes to reduce a child to that sort of catatonic fugue is just mind-boggling

[@iciajay6891]

The charges about starvation was dropped for both of them. It dhould not have been.

[@simplyharkonnen]

The government in Utah is absolutely infested with the Mormon cult. Frankly, it’s going to take disenfranchisement and reintegration/resocialization by forceful measures of cultists to fix, but Americans are allergic to Effective Measures so that’ll never happen.

[@jenallen5202]

It was covered in the other charges so to get them to take a plea they dropped it. Also in Utah 30 year max so made no difference.

[@thenopedetective]

Rachel this is such an informative and important video on religious abuse. It seems like this was also a huge labour of grief for you. I hope you are taking care of yourself with this, indirect trauma exposure, particularly for anyone with adverse childhood events, can be extremely re-triggering and traumatizing. You deserve safety and support too. Anyway, that's all to say I am so informed by this video, but also I hope it's not at expense of your own safety. I can't imagine how much time you spent with this material, never mind filming it all. Most of us working in trauma related fields have training for how to support ourselves (I'm a occupational therapist in mental health and primarily work with people who have PTSD), and even so it can be challenging. Take care and thank you for this compassionate and heartfelt video ♥️.

[@RachelOates]

I’ll be ok, I’m taking a few days off now to relax and sort my head out :) I didn’t expect this to affect me as much as it did but I’ve been a bit of an emotional wreck the last few days and now I’m going to concentrate on sorting myself out! Thanks for checking in! ❤️

[@joydivisionfanclub]

god, danny and debby asking him if he had allergies really got to me. imagine how long that was probably neglected if he did? how ruby probably used that against him? the simple act of caring for someone’s sensitivities is so human- may these kids have endless amounts of it in their future

[@kcaviatrix]

The neighbors asked to remain anonymous and are the heroes in this story. It may be a good idea to edit your comment and substitute their names, out of respect... You are right, they were a best case scenario for this sweet boy. I loved the way the wife talked to R.

[@mckenziev5301]

I really commend the police officer who sat with the petrified little girl. As a social worker in the United States, I so badly wish that crisis social workers could be dispatched along with police officers in high-risk situations that pertain to similar issues. Social workers are trained to deal with emotional crises in times of heightened fear and stress. Not only do we owe it to victims to have trained mental health professionals on the scene to provide immediate support, but we owe it to the police officers to 1) relieve them of the burden of “playing therapist” or being met with emotional vulnerabilities they don’t know how to face and 2) provide law enforcement with the added emotional direction and support. I’m not sure if any states offer this, but mine sure doesn’t. Regardless, with what he was given, the officer did an admiral job.

[@darkshadowrule2952]

I think maybe Cali does to some degree, but a lot of states have private organizations you can at least call during a mental health crisis that do it, I don't know if we have any options for immediate emergency response victims social assistance in a crime though :( That cop had me crying right alongside that neighbor though, guy was trying so hard. That's the kind of care and compassion that really ought to be exercised throughout the entire criminal justice system when it comes to how victims are treated 💜

[@seneccacorsetti670]

I live 5 minutes away from where this happened and our "summer heat" can reach 110°F (43°C). Those poor babies. No words 💔

[@nikolaa1625]

The most frustrating part is that Sherri tried to contact police and CPS for ages and no one bothered to check up on the kids. From what I’ve heard, Sherri was the only one who understood the severity of the situation and knew what these two are capable of but no one listened to her. It didn’t need to go this far if the cps actually did their job

[@WolfRaven119]

I'm glad their faces are blurred, but I can see their arms. They're so, so thin. Skinny kids don't look like that. Starved kids do.

[@samwindmill8264]

You probably don't want to see the police photographs, like Rachel warned. The first one provided on the state government's website is of the little girl's arms, pale and covered in scars and/or cuts. The wounds on the boy's ankles are *deep*, really graphic.

[@XYZ-kb3mm]

@@samwindmill8264 right, i saw the pictures, and those kids look like victims of war crimes. horrifying.

[@AeliaReadsBooks]

I felt physically ill afterward, holy crap.

[@Elora445]

Indeed. I had really thin arms as a child by nature (like no subcutaneous fat at all on them, more or less), but in comparison to these kids, my arms at least looked healthy. These kids...their arms do not look healthy at all. Poor kids, to say the least.

[@elenanojkovic2554]

@@Elora445 There was this one girl in my class who was at one point technically underweight (her parents fed her well, and she didn't have an eating disorder, she was just naturally thin and then had a growth spur) and even she never looked close to this. Hell, I've seen patients in terminal stages of cancer in my practice (family medicine) who have healthier-looking arms then these kids.

[@Loki-Landsby]

It’s not a privilege to be fed by your parents Ruby

[@lloroshastar6347]

I'm really genuinely terrified that at some point some Republican politician is going to pass a law that says Police or authorities are never allowed to interfere in how people raise their kids UNLESS they think they might be giving them gender affirming care or something, even if those parents are causing their children genuine harm. I know that for years these influencers were being protected by the authorities and that a Judge denied a search warrant, I know that the Church of Latter Day Saints promoted these people. All it takes is a few particularly extreme ideologues to believe that this kind of extreme parenting is 'traditional' and it gets mass support from other Republican politicians. We've seen so many extreme laws being pushed already by them, and it just gets worse on a daily basis. Society has hit rock bottom.

[@samwindmill8264]

To be frank (pun somewhat intended), even calling it "extreme parenting" would be much too kind, but I totally agree. There are some really deranged and dangerous people running the state governments in this country, and gawd knows some of them might look at this horrific abuse, motivated as it was by obvious religious inspired delusions, and somehow make excuses for it.

[@lloroshastar6347]

@@samwindmill8264 I also fear she's going to get out early then start some social media movement saying she was 'set up by the deep state' or something, and end up amassing a huge fortune because it seems that's all you need to do nowadays to get millions of people to send you money. I'm sorry but my opinion of the human race right now is so low, SO LOW!!!

[@kxjx]

They defend the patriarchy. That means men above women and adults above children. In a world where preserving the status quo heirachy ranks above human rights then abuse of this nature is inevitable.

[@DonnaLena1]

We need to vote our conscience. We need to unite and take power away from people who refuse to learn that their power worshipping ways are deadly for the majority of us.

[@kathieghiloni4464]

Stop using politics, it is evil. Society and social computer systems are a problem. Kids are shown no respect or right from wrong. There are abusers which I believe to be a societal issue, one parent families etc, parents who want to live their own lives rather than parenting. There is nothing wrong with discipline, not abuse. My parents would have been considered abusers because they used isolation (grounding) and even an occasional spanking, all of which now as an adult I believe I deserved. Schools do not replace parenting, mom and dad are the parents. Just watch some of the policing videos and you can see how degraded society has become or just watch the news. Being alive does not give you rights, acting respectfully to others does.

[@itsaballoonparty]

I fully believe that if ruby and Jodi had been able to take those children to the new, more isolated “work camp” property, that they would have murdered them

[@larissabrglum3856]

100%

[@lemin0u]

definitely. if not intentionally, the kids would eventally have succumbed to the abuse. these people are sick.

[@jaydas8976]

They were close to death, because their bowels were no longer working like they’re supposed to, which is a clear sign of organ failure. Ruby and Jodi tortured these kids so severely that they were going through organ failure. I truly believe that if they hadn’t been rescued, they would’ve died within weeks or months. I’m just happy that Ruby and Jodi were arrested for what they did

[@AmandaPaige71]

Children deserve a childhood they don't have to recover from!

[@spOOkytimes]

Beautifully said.

[@kymlouise]

I’m a retired clinical psychologist & I am utterly heartbroken by what has happened to those children it is evident that neither Ruby or Kevin had any heartfelt consideration for their children. I am unable to understand how a couple allowed & endorsed & validated their cruelty to their children. Those darling children will never recover from being fundamentally destroyed by their awful experiences

[@cookiecutter344]

Jodi says, "A newborn baby is independent of a caregiver, and able to make their own choices"; who fell for such a crock? The Mormon Bishop's who recommended this lunatic, should b investigated, for recommending such a dangerous therapist.

[@iamahorsenut7541]

Absolutely agree

[@spOOkytimes]

Isn't that sentiment beyond disgusting? This is why evil people leave their babies in cribs for days at a time and/or justify physical abuse like blanket training. Children are _not_ adults in _any_ sense.

[@ayannadivineempath]

My mother parented just like this, back then CPS did nothing, I even escaped as well but the put me back into it. Where is this from? My birth giver was excommunicated from a Mormon church. Are there other terms for this? Even the words like deception and delusion were her favorites. It is so healing to see the compassion and outpouring of support for these kids. You truly do internalize it and believe maybe you deserved it. It's really sad. I'm glad I got out age 17, but many others don't. It's so amazing to live in a time where people actually condemn this as we felt very alone back in the 80/90s and were so so so broken. Many decades of therapy later I can face videos like this. Seeing your compassion is truly healing. Because no one cried for me or my sisters. There was denial among the family. It feels like a better world now. Thank you for your content and your deep compassion.

[@yogadork_namaste]

Hugs to you, friend 🧡

[@latronqui]

That is so heartbreaking and scary!

[@angelamaryquitecontrary4609]

Sending love from England. xxx

[@ayannadivineempath]

@@yogadork_namaste omg thank you for your compassion. I am nearly 40 now and very full and happy but it was quite a journey. I really appreciate the compassion, I did not spare any for myself for so long.

[@zakaryhudson]

I hope even now you're gentle with yourself and have found healing, I can't even imagine or fathom what you went through and continue to go through. Sending all of the hugs and love to you, you deserved and still deserve better ❤

[@Who-Dunnit]

He asked for two favors. The first was to be taken to the nearest police station...then he said "actually, one's fine"....i bet he was gonna ask for food and water....maybe he thought he was asking too much of a stranger to ask for both favors.

[@catherineshaw3462]

He was so polite when he'd been through hell.

[@vannilla771]

Nothing says im innocent like seeing a child has run away from your house and immediately calling your lawyer lmfao

[@TangentialTif]

“The privilege to eat dinner.” Being able to afford food for your children is a privilege, children getting food from parents who can provide it is a requirement.

[@anamakesthings]

I had no idea who these people were before the arrest was made. I DO, however, know of the insane parenting that happens in some LDS families. Please, whoever's reading this - I don't mean to say religious people are all child abusers. I'm referring strictly to some families in this high-demand religion where they don't really stop to question what normal development looks like and have a very punitive style of parenting rooted in religious shame and guilt. This is how you end up with teens being severely punished for ma****bating or watching 10 mins of p**n over the course of 3 years. Others will receive punishment for merely drinking coffee. I looked a bit into Jodi's professional past and she was highly supported and propped up by her church. She is not the first, nor she is the last to engage in such practices. In some communities, a more toned-down version of this case is commonplace so I genuinely think a large-scale investigation should be considered...

[@mikalcarruthers]

I understand. I hate it when people use religion for their own agenda, especially justifying abusive behavior. I grew up in the church. My deceased grandpa was a preacher at a small church that I still go to to this day, but he don't even preach harmful teachings like Ruby and Jodi. It's just disgusting

[@samwindmill8264]

10 mins of p0rn over three years? How did they calculate exactly much had been watched over three years? Or do you mean some sort of three year punishment??? I mean Jodi is unhealthily obsessed with seemingly everyone besides herself supposedly being addicted to it...

[@mybirdsofparadise]

Agree with Ana

[@anamakesthings]

@@mikalcarruthers It's so unfortunate. Some of the people I love and respect the most are very religious but would never use their faith to bring someone down with guilt. My therapist, who I've been seeing for a decade now, is deeply religious and her husband is a theologian. We have the most inspiring and enlightening conversations over spirituality. I am so grateful to have their perspectives in my life. Not once did I hear something presented as "God wouldn't want you to do X" or "Aren't you ashamed for doing Y." It's always "If the Bible taught me anything, it's to show unconditional love and to welcome people where they're at." I have a feeling that's one of the reasons she's such a successful therapist - showing up as a ball of affection and non-judgement. I wish people got to experience inter-faith trust like this.

[@DaveJohnsonSCG]

Absolutely agree, and hardly anyone is pointing this out or talking about the common denominator of the LDS church. I grew up in and around (still around) the LDS church and stuff like this at the time I just brushed it off as "oh my friends parents are just really strict". Now I realize how abusive it was. LDS is a verified cult and it's teachings influence people that can take those and make it more extreme. Lori, Chad, Ruby, Jodi, Tim Ballard, Glen Beck, Samuel Shaffer, John Coltharp, etc. the list just keeps going some more extreme than others. Everyone thinks she's talking crazy in those Jail calls but it sounds exactly what I would hear every Sunday in church. It's how they talk and justify things. My LDS mother talks like this now and always talks about the end times. It's a doomsday religion it's literally in the name "Latter-Day Saints". 😂

[@kkturtle12]

The video of them laughing and insisting that infants and two-year-olds are manipulative is absolutely bone chilling in this light.

[@Gnormous]

Ruby and Jodi are MONSTERS. They deserve life sentences with no repeal. They are so twisted and disturbed.

[@spOOkytimes]

The sad thing is that they are not viewed as dangerous enough to society as a whole. Jodi is a bit with her history of her "therapy", but Ruby "just hurt her kids". It's incredible how many innocent souls, human or otherwise, become collateral damage due to the court system. Usually abusers have to murder someone in order for them to get any meaningful prison sentence.

[@hollyschell8784]

That poor little girls skinny arms. I have a 10 yr old daughter and I just can’t….. this absolutely makes me sick to my stomach. Edit: I’m at the point in the video now where you are reading the diary. I’m in tears listening to the evilness of this monster. How do you treat a life you carried in your body that way. It’s absolutely so much worse than I had imagined.

[@CatChaos369]

It never fails to make me cry when Danny voice breaks upon seeing how keep his wounds are with the wife even saying “aw you’re such a good kid” they care so much about him and it’s heartbreaking that STRANGERS show more concern and care towards your child than their parents it makes me apoplectic with rage!

[@evelelro]

40:58 I do think it’s sweet how the officer was trying to tell her that he won’t hurt her, but the whole “this badge tells me I don’t hurt people” comment while knowing the violence they commit against people of color (particularly black people) was very jarring for me.

[@larissabrglum3856]

Same

[@Lucifersfursona]

The church they grew up in that tortured them says the same thing. Children shouldn’t be taught to blindly trust anybody, adults use that to harm them too often. Cops are not safe for kids, like the church they protect their own predators

[@FortheLoveofBees]

@deereye87yes the poor, poor widdle powice officer… how could he EVER know that the behavior of his colleagues has made it so that certain people cannot trust members of his profession.

[@sophdog2564]

In Utah in particular there was a horrifying situation where a woman called 911 to try to get help for her autistic son having a meltdown. Police showed up and shot and killed him.

[@lizeee6188]

@@FortheLoveofBees I don’t think he’s going to keep all that in mind when he’s presented with an extremely abused and emaciated child. His first priority is to make sure the child is ok and goes with the least amount of trauma.

[@neurodeee]

The giveaway they did not somehow _"believe it was right"_ is just how meticulously they were hiding the kids away from all guests and outsiders.

[@quinnabun]

mother of two, there are nights where i cant sleep because i am so worried that my children didn't eat enough that day because one has food aversions, ill make 6 different meals gone uneaten and ill do it every day of my life just to make sure my child eats SOMETHING, anything.. even on days where he has done nothing but misbehave. I will never understand how anyone can treat children like this. I cant even raise my voice at my children without regretting it instantly and apologizing.

[@steggopotamus]

A little sternness is ok, kids need boundaries somehow (no losing ish make sure the sternness is regulated and appropriate and according to predictable rules) . But there's absolutely no justification for denying them their needs.

[@amberinthemist7912]

Forcing kids to fast in a normal part of the mormon church.

[@quinnabun]

@steggopotamus for sure, I do my best to be stern but not too stern but the sternness always comes out at the wrong times out of frustration instead of intention, that's when I feel guilty.

[@superdrwholock]

As someone who grew up with food aversions thank you for being so patient with your kids, a lot of people seemed to take it so personally when I didn't eat something they made as a kid but it was literally just part of my autism, I grew out of it more or less luckily so I hope your kids do too

[@superdrwholock]

@merulaamethyst2248 Aw I'm so sorry that happened to you, I remember someone who wasn't even a family member force fed me a meal with aubergine in it and now I can't even smell it without gagging

[@mikalcarruthers]

I watched Cruel World Happy Mind's 6 hour video on this entire situation with the 8 passengers and I didn't know the kids were locked in a safe where they were suffering. I thought the kids were chained as well. I almost was about to cry. No child deserves any kind of abuse. I hope to God, Kevin does NOT get custody of those kids. Even if it turns out there's no evidence against him, he has proven to all of us that he sucks as father and failed to protect those kids time and time again. I don't believe Ruby and Jodi's sentences are long enough either. People like them are irredeemable in my eyes and I'm a person that wants to see people redeemed but unfortunately, it doesn't work that way sometimes and it's sad. Thank you Rachel, for taking the time to do this tough video and please take care of your mental health

[@bcpr9812]

They were also handcuffed, or R was, at least. That's what caused the lacerations on his ankles and wrists. I've seen the uncensored photos of the wounds under the duct tape, and subcutaneous fat and muscle were visible. It was horrific. Then you have these monsters applying honey and cayenne and plastic wrap and duct tape, to maximize pain and discomfort and create a moist environment that promotes infection. R was lucky to have gotten out before he became septic.

[@mikalcarruthers]

@bcpr9812 What also pissed me off is that Ruby had the nerve to call her kids "demons" when she and Jodi were doing demon behavior by doing some of the most horrific stuff that no human being should have to go through. I hope Ruby Franke and Jodi Hilder-b**** are getting the same treatment they put Ruby's kids and Jodi's niece through. I don't care what happens to them. I care about the kids

[@RoseThePhoenix]

They took so much joy in tormenting children. I was already convinced Ruby hated children, and everything just keeps proving that. She absolutely loathes her own children and she had SIX of them. It's appalling.

[@XYZ-kb3mm]

people like this pop out as many kids as possible because of their hatred for the world and fear of it… her kids are her army of christian warriors, and her purpose is snuffing out everything inside her own kids that reminds her of the world that terrifies her. the more fears that develop… as is expected with this level of mental illness… the more she wants to mold her children’s personalities to her level of comfort. her fear of humanity led her to destroy her children’s humanity

[@katharineeavan9705]

Ruby is an extreme example of what happens when a women who absolutely does not want kids is brainwashed into believing that being a mother is her divinely ordained purpose and obligation as a woman. She resented these kids for existing and, because her faith told her not wanting kids was essentially a sin, excused that resentment as being the childrens' fault for being 'bad', and that she wouldn't feel this way if they were 'good'.

[@RoseThePhoenix]

@@katharineeavan9705 this is truly insightful

[@daemon2426]

I watch a lot of true crime, and frankly, it's easier than this. There's a separation from the victims when they're not here to tell their stories. Every break in the neighbor's voice on the 911 call destroys me. I can hear the pain and panic in his voice. The inability to understand why this happened to anyone let alone one so small. I know these children will need lifelong therapy, but I'm glad they're all still with us. If he neighbours hadn't been home, I'm not sure he'd have made it. Thank you for your respectful covering of this case, Ms Rachael, and not letting the victims be forgotten

[@FrogsForBreakfast]

I can't stomach true crime stories with children. They are so vulnerable. How could anyone not want to protect and cherish them? I couldn't finish this video. The situation is so much worse than we thought. I hope that one day those children fully realize that they are Innocent and deserve to be loved.

[@XYZ-kb3mm]

this is not just abuse, it’s torture.

[@Annie-uw3bd]

The amount of research you do for these is incredible! Your commentary is wonderful. These poor kids didn't do anything to have to live through any of this and I have no words for Ruby and Jodi at all anymore... I hope these kids get the love and respect they deserve.

[@lornatw]

I agree ❤

[@4thDan]

“A visceral experience”! I am sick to the teeth of hearing her psychotic prattle!! It’s not “parenting”, it’s criminal! Ruby was completely unhinged, but Jody kicked her over the edge with even more of her incomprehensible disjointed psychobabble! I agree, Rachel. They got off FAR too light! I doubt there’s a consequence equal to the crimes committed here!

[@lemin0u]

just read franke's diary. this woman lived in a complete delusion. absolutely nuts

[@lingodelfo5415]

You lovely, lovely Rachel, never apologise for your emotions. The fact that you are horrified, the fact that you cry, the fact that you can't stomach the whole file - that means YOU have empathy and compassion, the things those women never had, never will. It means that, as a person, you are as far from them as possible. And I hope you find comfort in this thought. Better to have a breakdown on KZbin (which I don't think you did anyway) is better than to be an emotionless monster. Have a nice mental recovery, we love you ❤ PS. I agree that they should serve a life sentence, because I am worried for the lives of the kids, especially R

[@frankiesayspanic]

oh. my. GOD. i knew the abuse they endured was severe and horrific, but _nothing_ could have prepared me for those diary entries. that absolutely destroyed me. especially as an abuse survivor. and even more as a mother of two extraordinary daughters whom i will forever love, cherish, and protect. and _even_ more in my fragile emotional state given that my youngest daughter is currently hospitalized and is very likely *finally* being discharged and coming home today. i definitely need some serious self care after this, and i really hope you’ve done the same. i truly appreciate you covering this. i tried watching these updates on law & crime, but it started with them saying “a *treasure trove* of new information has been released”, which felt so gross to me that i just closed the video. and i haven’t wanted to google it for fear of seeing graphic content. i could not have handled learning about this without your compassion and empathy. i was crying right along with you. those sad excuses for humans *have* to get the max of 30 years. after hearing these details i just can’t imagine them getting a shred of leniency. and god i hope those poor kiddos are in a healthy, safe, healing, loving environment. again, i really hope you’re doing well and practicing self care and self compassion while decompressing from filming this. i sent you something from amazon; just something small. i hope it brings you some comfort ♡︎♥︎

[@TheImpiroGirl]

Dear Rachel, I didn’t realize how bad the abuse was and this is VITAL because I listened to Ruby’s statement in court and thought she sounded repentant?! Now I truly know that she deserved not an ounce of sympathy. BUT I am worried for you. Diving into this material has clearly taken a toll (how could it not?) and I hope that you will take some time off to recuperate and find some peace of mind. Take care of yourself❤

[@Steph-zo5zk]

The clip of that poor kid looking at the food will live in my head forever. Clearly so starving but reaching for it so slowly and cautiously as if it must be some kind of trap. I hope they're being well cared for and eating all their favorite foods every day now.

[@Iamverylazy]

I've seen a few other people talk about this situation already, but this is the first time I've seen anything about the journal. I thought that Ruby was a despicable person, an abusive/neglectful parent who was more than willing to mistreat her children for clout online. It takes a certain amount of cruelty to be willing to do that to one's own children. But after seeing that journal, I realize it wasn't just cruelty. She was completely delusional. And that's terrifying. There's no limit to how cruel someone is willing to be if they think their cruelty is not only justifiable but morally right. If I had been reading a book or watching a movie with a villain like Ruby I'd have written her off as unrealistic and over the top evil, and yet here we are. This video was a lot. You deserve a break after this one.

[@michellesass5070]

Rachel, your emotions right at the surface are so reflective of how most of us normal people responded to the doorbell camera footage and all of this in general. I've seen it a few times now and it rivets me every time, R asking for a favor and then telling them he needs to go to the police station is just heartbreaking. You are so right, the neighbors are truly heros, they were amazing!

[@laurenjulia1877]

What gets me is that Jody, while on the phone in prison, told someone oh we put the ropes on them but they did the injuries to themselves. He moved around in the ropes so it was his fault his injuries were so horrifying and she thought that was a rational defense for hog tying an 11 year old little boy. She’s sick and I would start praying if it meant she didn’t get to have another day outside of prison for the rest of her life. Ruby is no better but she was used by Jody because she had influence and a platform. Ruby was the perfect useful idiot for Jody’s evil, sick hunger to harm the innocent. Rudy even said she was surprised they needed to keep the kids in the hospital for 3 days. 3 days was the very least they would need and she thought that was an overreaction.

[@iamahorsenut7541]

Ruby was the mother. She's way worse. She should have refused to hurt her children in this way. She had been mean to her children before Jodie

[@Em_Elizabeth]

What did she expect? Tie the boy down and he will obviously try to free himself.

[@lindseystein9676]

I really wonder how those Mormon church leaders feel about the fact they’ve recommended (and paid for, if I’m remembering correctly) church members see Jodi as a therapist. I wonder if they feel guilty or remorseful at all.

[@amberinthemist7912]

The mormon leaders have never felt guilty or remorseful about anything. They've all had the "second annointing" which means they could literally murder people and they believe god would not hold them accountable.

[@ayannadivineempath]

My mother was an ex Mormon and parented just like this. I had no idea until finding this channel that it was religion related and not just evil horrific parenting.

[@Yume03]

No remorse I suspect, they agree with this ideology. Look into interviews with adults that left the cult. Lots of them suffered abuse to some degree 😢.

[@deborahpoole9710]

Nope they don’t. Where do u think the teachings and beliefs came from?

[@hydrogen3266]

I’m actually surprised they haven’t been excommunicated yet. The church loves to do that to save face whenever they’re implicated in crimes. Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow (who murdered their kids after being convinced they were zombies) were excommunicated for example, and these two cases are very similar to each other

[@raigenhuss7030]

These kids are going to have decades of healing to do. They’re going to be dealing with this well into adulthood. It’s so unfair

[@Muriel20091]

For their entire lifes😢

[@transsnack]

Speaking from experience, they'll likely never really trust anyone with any amount of power over them again. It's taken me years to feel even slightly comfortable with authority figured, and what I went through was no where near as bad as those two's. It makes me feel ill.

[@mattieclaire]

hey rachel, thank you for covering this. i'm still only part way through the video, but i wanted to say that i hope you care for yourself after putting so much effort into something like this. it can be really, legitimately traumatic to report on these things, and there's no shame in being affected by it. whether you play tetris to disrupt the consolidation of visual memories from the images you've seen, cuddle with your doggo to heal your heart, or even talk to a professional about this: please take care of yourself. and thank you again for putting in the mental and emotional work to bring awareness to this stuff.

[@fralanasko2900]

That poor girl sitting there so still..... Ruby and jody belong in jail forever

[@chocottang]

i feel like screaming in these women's faces YOU ARE THE DEVIL, NOT THE KIDS. ONLY THE DEVIL COULD TORTURE CHILDREN AND NOT EVEN FEEL REMORSE. and the fact jodie says she cant comprehend logically why she's in jail is insane. how can u not understand that torturing children is NOT OKAY?????

[@elizabethashe1356]

the officer talking to the child was so caring and compassionate, I hate to think that's probably some of the kindest treatment she's ever had from an adult

[@KawaiiSemeKiller]

This.. breaks my heart. And to add to what that means, I don’t like kids. I respect them as small humans, but I have a lot of sensory issues and they’re very overstimulating. I cannot explain how much I respect people who DO what to parent. Bless them. I.. can’t fathom how someone could treat a child like this.. they’re tiny humans who need love and support.. they will make mistakes, as any person will, and especially children because they’re just learning.. they just need talked to, they’re not dumb.. I cannot fathom anyone taking away a basic human NEED ((food)) in a form Of punishment.. no matter HOW a child is acting they NEVER deserve to not be fed.. I’m just.. I’m with you on being SO thankful for the neighbours.. thank the GODS that man came out.. I remember hearing him describe the kids and hearing him tear up.. I hope he knows just how important it is that he answered that door.

[@jessummlee8866]

Rachel, you are so so brave for digging through all the evidence to make this video for us. You did not have to do that, but please know it's appreciated. I also hope you know that the trauma you felt going through them was real and valid. I hope you have time to process it and recover.

[@spiritsfollow4976]

8:17 I am 100% sure she was not "hiding" in the closet. She was put in that closet by her mother or Jody, and it took 2 hours for her to believe that she wouldn't be punished for leaving.

[@lloroshastar6347]

This needs to be a case study for a lot of things. Because I think that whilst the majority of Mormon's would never even think of doing this, there is absolutely no doubt that political and religious extremism is what influenced these women, and they were for a long time protected and boosted by other political and religious extremists. In fact, I think there were people who weren't extremists but were naive and believed Ruby must be doing the right thing because she shared their faith, and this is part of the problem. This is what happens when human beings commit themselves wholly to an ideology and make it their every waking thought, make it their entire personality.

[@DaveJohnsonSCG]

Growing up in and around LDS in an Orthodox area at the time I would say about 20-30% of my friends families had varying degrees of abuse like this or in their words at the time "strict parents". It all just gets normalized since we were in our own bubble cut off from the outside world. It's a feedback loop. If a lot of people parent the same way then they see it as a green flag to parent just like them. A common example would be not letting your LDS child play with a non-LDS child. And you're right that when people find out that they share the same LDS religion that it's a green flag to instantly trust them or follow them without question.

[@lloroshastar6347]

@@DaveJohnsonSCG thank you for this, I guess for me it sounds very sad, but it's hard to change how people want to be

[@abrielle13]

I didn't know about the haircut for punishment. I had the same thing happen to me as a punishment. My foster mom cut all my hair off because I wasn't keeping it brushed. I still remember the intense bullying I got for having short hair as a girl in the early 2000s. The other girls would look under the stalls to see if I was peeing like a boy or girl.

[@steggopotamus]

It's a way to shame kids and take away their sense of self. It's pretty awful.

[@wendynerd1199]

Yeah... That was abuse.

[@transsnack]

It's a method used in POW camps to dehumanize the prisoners. If you want context for just how horrible that method really is. I'm sorry you went through that.

[@lemsip207]

I had my hair cut short for daring to being born a girl. Your sex is out of your control. Not even the parents can control the sex of their children though narcissists think they can. They want the first born to be a boy as if you could determine that.

[@alisaurus4224]

My mom cut my hair in 2nd grade because i wasn’t brushing it enough-but she cut a bob, not shaved my head. It wasn’t to shame or punish me. Ruby was almost gleeful describing shaving the kids’ heads, and in the dog sink no less

[@WHHBU]

42:25 i know the music got removed for copyright but the fact that a cop set up their phone to play music to make E feel more comfortable to come out the closet. It's like coaxing a puppy out of the streets

[@Roadent1241]

Oh is that why it went quiet? I thought my tech was going wonky XD

[@PumpkinQueenFlorence]

What song was it?

[@DonnaLena1]

It’s obvious that Kevin’s primary concern is for Ruby, not the children. He is the kind of person who wants his partner to have power over him. I suspect that he only filed for divorce on advice of his attorney. Kevin is attempting to give the impression that he has changed his views. He may push the younger children to “forgive” Ruby. Her parents and sisters have said they are hoping that Ruby will be reunited with her children. We cannot accept this for Russell and Eve. They were subjected to their mother’s very real hatred. I will never believe that she has changed the beliefs that she followed at the expense of her children.

[@xorvictia]

The cayenne pepper and honey paste actually made my stomach turn. I grew up in an incredibly abusive environment, so I sympathize so heavily with these children, but hearing about the pepper paste is so far beyond depravity that I burst into tears. Who does this, man. Who does this to little children. And the sick woman loved abusing her children so much that she kept a journal detailing the physical tortures she put them through. I hope she gets exactly what she deserves in prison.

[@marymac3572]

I'm so sorry you had to look through the evidence to make this video. I thought my computer froze during the video of that poor child sitting still in the closet. Even at 1.5 speed, without sound it looked like a still photo. It broke my heart. I hope those kids have a safe place to go where they never have to see Ruby again, and that Ruby spends the rest of her life desperate for their forgiveness.

[@thirdwavenewsstationrachel8448]

A 2 year old has no agency and no ability to regulate. I hope all these parents that were paying for this brainwashing are investigated also.

[@zjay1356]

That was so frustrating to listen to. Trying to make a 2 year old sound malicious. So sick

[@ER-ge9hr]

41:29 My gosh, this officer was so gentle with her 🥺😭 Thank goodness for his patience and kindness, allowing her to process things and trying to ease her worries. If they would’ve forced her out, she would be even more traumatized/frightened.

[@Rechtauch]

My 10 yo forgot to take his lunch to school today. I literally saw him put it in his backpack, then for some misterios reason he took it off again. I got a call from school, had to leave my job, go back home, grab his lunch and bring it to school. Was I happy? No! Did it cross my mind to say he should not eat? What kind of a monster do you have to be for that??!!! Human of all ages make mistakes, if my husband forgot his lunch, all grown up that he is, I would also bring him if needed! The only lesson to learn here is that their mother is an awful person.

[@briandaaranda9735]

And the nerve to then say: "The consequence is she'll have to be hungry." NO. If I forget my lunch at home, I have the option of buying food for myself, but I'm a grown woman. That poor girl was 5 or 6 years old! I hope that none of her children have to interact with her ever again. Or the dad for that matter.

[@Rechtauch]

​@merulaamethyst2248 OMG, sorry you had to go through it. 😢

[@chloeroman6011]

I think the most bizarre piece to me is just how deluded Ruby and Jody are about the stages of development for children and how to “properly” handle children during each stage… its all so clearly wrong and yet they constantly delude themselves into believing that what they preach is “truth”… :/ it’s so clearly been eluding to abuse that Im surprised it took so long for any kind of justice to be served. Its truly disgusting to watch Ruby talk about a 2 year old going through a period of “selfishness” as if its not egocentrism; something they will grow out of without a “visceral physical experience to tie to the abstract”. I hate the fact that her children; and possibly others, were punished so harshly for normal stages of development. Absolute delusion. Not the truth.

[@chloeroman6011]

Lol, also the way that she talks about her child not loving her unconditionally as a response to her abuse is flipping wild. She doesn’t deserve anyone who would love her unconditionally, much less the unconditionally love you would receive from your child if you actually took care of them and protected them.

[@zjay1356]

Yes. Taking about raising children without considering age appropriate behavior for the child is very dangerous

[@asrozaidi]

These were actions made by people who absolutely despise kids-- how could these horrible monsters look at these young kids who are just learning about the world, and think that they are being 'evil' or just purposefully spiting them? THEY. ARE. CHILDREN. I'm glad the children got away-- I hope they can grow up in peace and safety away from their abusers. Don't even think the father should be allowed custody of them, in my honest opinion. I don't want to know what that could do to the children's process of healing; they deserve to be cared for, not neglected.

[@barbararab6390]

Worst part is that their religion encourages having kids

[@Roadent1241]

I say I do not like kids. I would never mistreat them. I will protect them. I believe they deserve care, love, guidance, looking after, basic necessities, even though I'm well aware I'm not the best person to do it. It's not that difficult to have a heart for the innocent.

[@lizcollinson2692]

The officer who sits with E. His voice breaking initially, sets me off every time. Him sitting with her and coaxing her with food reminds me of the guy who sits with fearful and depressed dogs in shelters.

[@sophieprice6190]

This has been such a long time coming. It's so frustrating and devastating to be one of many people who knew years ago that Ruby was abusing her kids, and to now find out that it was so much worse than we thought. She literally tortured those kids. If it were up to me, they would both be locked up for life. And I think Kevin should face charges too.

[@lowbatterylifestyle7025]

Thank you for creating this video. It was extremely difficult to get through, but I don’t think I would have been able to look at all the material you covered on my own. Having someone as compassionate as you go through it with us makes it a little easier.

[@bcpr9812]

I find it curious how it didn't seem to cross Ruby's mind that, even if her children were possessed by demons as she believed, the torture and attempted murder (because it damn near _was_ murder) that she and Jodi inflicted on the children would've likely been a demon's goal. I mean, we're talking about a supposed entity out of hell, where souls are regularly tortured. Having them engage in such monstrous behaviour and doing real damage to their child vessel is exactly what a malicious entity would consider "mission accomplished". I would think that meeting them with patience, kindness, compassion, and other genuinely loving behaviours would've starved a demon of what it sought by possessing the body of a child and acting out. Demons _hate_ that shit, because they're fucking _demons._ Not that I believe in demons or anything, I'm just reasoning based on my general understanding of them in mythology.

[@kxjx]

It is so difficult to put in to words how violent using their definition of "unconditional love" is on a dependent child. They say that the only way the child can demonstrate its place in their life is to suffer any assault and return it with love. Pure horror. A hell of their own construction. Awful awful.

[@theythemgae9025]

Watching this video in bits. You did such a great job describing what happened with out glorifying it. Thank you for the time you put into this.

[@acharris]

Its disturbing what people are willing to do in the name of their religion

[@vainpiers]

Religion is a convenient excuse.

[@kimberlys8422]

Worse than I could have ever imagined. It's like the Turpin family escape all over again. That two younger children were skeletal and the boy is a hero.

[@lemsip207]

Exactly. They were horrendous.

[@kellycowley3535]

It is cases like these that make me more anti-theist than atheist. I'm not blaming religion for Ruby/Jodi actions (they are both monsters) not am I saying all religious people are like this but there are too many times where stories of child abuse has connected back to a religion. I think we (as a society) tend to let too much (abuse) go on in the name of 'religious freedom' and 'parental rights' and I'm honestly just sick of death of dealing with it.

[@jazwhoaskedforthis]

Suggesting infants have agency or are deceptive is super fucking toxic, and I cannot help but think it's the same line of thought that blames children for their own CSA or allows predators to convince themselves that children they're coercing and forcing are making a choice.

[@edvh88]

11:30: I have a 3 year old. If he took a cookie, it’s because he likes cookies. It’s not “selfish”. My job as a parent is to supervise and guide him and explain why a cookie is a treat for after we have some good healthy food to grow big and strong. We can’t fill up on cookies because then our bellies will hurt. I don’t want to be an authority figure. I want to help HIM learn to make his own good choices!!!!

[@ClumsyTheNinja]

I was so hoping you would cover this again! Thank you for making this video and doing so with grace. It's hard to discuss these topics, but it is so important that the kids get justice and their story is heard. ❤

[@soleilwither]

disgusting evil like this exists, and some people will still say that parents can do no wrong and that you should not run away or cut contact... i am so glad these children finally got the chance to break free, i hope they encounter nothing but gentleness and kindness they deserve from now on.

[@amytaylor555]

The police need to investigate if Jodi was doing this to more children. Kevin talking about hearing footsteps and sounds from the basement makes me worried she had more children locked away and their parents were ok with it and haven’t come forward. Just a scary thought I had. Thank you. Hope you can refresh and find some joy after this difficult story.

[@RachelOates]

Oh that is a terrifying thought I hadn’t had myself! You’re absolutely right!

[@Tron4JC]

@@RachelOatesinvestigate Pam as well!!!

[@larissabrglum3856]

Oh noooooooo

[@samwindmill8264]

Someone commented on someone else's video about this that someone they knew had taken his own life because of how Jodi's """therapy""" had ruined his life and relationship. Jodi has been ruining people's lives for a long time by all accounts.

[@Em_Elizabeth]

Jodi's niece came out and said she was abused by her as well.

[@salem1281]

The sad thing is that they were most likely physically unable to make it to the restroom because of the fact that they were being starved. When you haven't eaten in several days and then eat, you will have severe diarrhea that comes incredibly fast. Holocaust survivors documented this happening with them, as well as some people with EDs.