RadioMaster MT12 ELRS Version - Long term follow up review

[@nick_cnc]

Hey Everyone, Nick here. Locking comments on this video and redirecting everyone to my other video on the channel regarding runaways on the MT12. This video is getting too many low effort "did you check the failsafes" comments that are effectively addressed by the other video. kzbin.info/www/bejne/h6qyqaJoZZKIq8U

[@CharlieHurst]

I had two runaways on the same day a while back, but both were because I was trying dynamic transmit power. I fixed both by changing settings back, not happened at all since. I don’t currently race but aiming to get to a track in the new year and see how it holds up. I’m still confident it will work for me despite now seeing several videos from a number of users claim it’s “broken”.

[@JosephPerito-m6g]

If the other cars are working well with the update, it sounds like that one specific had an issue installing the update and corrupted. I agree that the major firmware issue is a big thing and can’t be overlooked just putting out an idea to consider if that could have been the problem which is not in anyway trying to lighten the issue.

[@nick_cnc]

@@JosephPerito-m6g as mentioned in another comment, I suspect the ongoing issue is related to the rx's inability to handle abnormal electrical conditions. I was able to recreate the signal loss and runaway faults in another car by stimulating those conditions which in my mind demonstrated it's not a one-off issue with a bad receiver. I also performed the exact same test on the cheap Rlaarlo radio I mentioned in the video. That radio would lose connection, but the connection loss lasted less than a second as compared to the 5+ seconds of connection loss of the MT12. Importantly, despite losing connection, the Rlaarlo never once created a runaway condition while the MT12 would occasionally runaway in the exact same test.

[@JosephPerito-m6g]

@@nick_cnc That's concerning as I was planning on getting an MT12 as I like ELRS I'll look at waiting for an NB4 then. having used an NB4 I can agree it does feel Good in the hand.

[@nick_cnc]

@@JosephPerito-m6g The NB4 line is an excellent choice. On top of, IMO, being a better radio, FlySky is actively developing their surface model products. As far as I can tell, RadioMaster does not do anything for the development of EdgeTX or ELRS - just look at the FW that shipped with the MT12. Aside from the signal loss issues, the trim button labels did not match between what was marked on the radio and what showed up in the screen. At first I was willing to overlook something like that, but now in hindsight it's an obvious sign that RadioMaster simply doesn't do any development or contribution to the open source projects on which their products are based. I find that to be a rather exploitative business practice.

[@rcvg69420]

Wow, really sucks to see you had all these problems. I've been using ELRS PWM literally since it came out 3? years ago, but checking out your github links looks like I was partially quite lucky there. I've only run firmwares 3.0.0 and 3.3.0 which are unaffected by the crashing issues. I quite literally have hundreds of hours with ELRS now with no problems. I don't own the MT12 but have a RadioMaster Boxer (airplane radio) I've used to race 21.5T 2wd carpet buggy with and had good results. I am pretty skilled with RC planes and a lot of that transferred over. I did a few club races and always got into the A main, even placed 2nd once when a couple of the faster guys just crashed too much. I was running the ELRS 3.3.0 firmware, F1000 packet mode, and 333hz servo rate on the ESC and steering outputs. The receiver I have in my buggy is the Matek R24-P6. Hoping to get some more racing in with that setup this winter season. Anyways, my point is the hardware and software can be really good, seems like you got unlucky and that just sucks... And perhaps the MT12 is just uncomfortable in the hand to you which makes the whole thing a non-starter anyways, you noted a better connected feeling on the NB4 so just commenting on that. Really the good radios are so low latency now its going to come down to whats most comfortable in the hand.

[@scottyh72]

Been running mine now for months. No issues whatsoever. I fly Radiomaster ELRS for FPV as well. What were your packet settings?

[@webreakforsquirrel4201]

I'm curious if you did a range check and actually tested if a TX loss would still cause a runaway. Meaning stand the vehicle throttle it and shut the transmitter off with the model still going. Do the steer wheels crank one way and throttle stops entirely. If those things are not happening simultaneously then you have it set up wrong.

[@nick_cnc]

@@webreakforsquirrel4201 doesn't matter what I did or didn't try... You fanboys are a cult for whom no amount of testing or evidence would ever convince. I'll be accused of lying or doing it wrong. Y'all are a lost cause.

[@webreakforsquirrel4201]

@@nick_cncsounds like someone is frustrated with understanding this technology. I have had my fair share of bouts with OpenTX and EdgeTX. It's an open source interface to use with a programable radio. I would consider this a hurdle to work through thus increasing your knowledge and perhaps educating others what you did to fix the issue. The reason the system is so inexpensive is because it does many things not just 3 things. The open source community is mostly about working together to overcome a community project so that we all benefit not just a corporation. So go buy a Sanwa or a Futaba or Spektrum. Tell me how much you want for that POS and I will gladly put it into my daughter's hands.

[@webreakforsquirrel4201]

Rlaarlo doesn't make an RTR ELRS version car. So you likely downloaded ELRS firmware to a 4in1 multi module protocol transmitter.

[@nick_cnc]

@@webreakforsquirrel4201 I bought an ELRS receiver and put it in the Rlaarlo. I'm starting to think you're as dumb as you think I am.

[@jammyhires4598]

You always need to power off your radio and have your car in a safe place holding it. to see where your failsafe is set to.

[@alanhelps6789]

What channels were you using in the receiver when you had signal dropout?

[@nick_cnc]

@@alanhelps6789 only a flight guy would ask what channels a surface guy uses for throttle and steering.

[@alanhelps6789]

@nick_cnc Not at all, I use it for WRCCA crawlers. I read there were issues with CH2, so I used CH3 for throttle after I blew an esc. Not had a problem since. Also CH5 on a 5 channel receiver doesn't act as a regular channel for some reason, so I had to connect it to WiFi and remap Ch5 as Ch6, and it worked fine. The Ch2 issue is apparently due to CH2 receiving a lot of high speed data that can mess with some esc's and servos. I was told it's a rare issue, but I'm not so sure on that.

[@CharlieHurst]

@@alanhelps6789that’s because channel 5 on ELRS is reserved for the “Arm” command. Which is a drone control legacy thing. One thing I wish it had out of the box is just a higher level interface. There’s so much it can do but so complicated to adjust compared to an NB4+. I still like this radio, but it needs so much knowledge and attention to detail in the setup, on quite a low level programming interface. Firmware upgrades every few weeks, and so many of them… (You need to update receivers too) This is one of those systems that you need to follow the rule of keeping it on the very latest firmware, to make sure you’re clear of any bugs. ELRS is on version 3.5.3 now. 3.3.x is months old at this point.

[@alanhelps6789]

@CharlieHurst I tried the NB4+ after I had troubles with channels 2 and 5. That still needs the receivers updated. Problem with the NB4 is you can't have multiple switches or knobs for the same mix. If you try and use another switch to do the same thing, but in different increments , it says you're already using a switch for that application,and changes It to the new one opted. It needs 3 channels to mix two. To run two motors smoothly, it needs Ch2 as master, but you need both esc's in CH3 and CH4 to run in sync. If you plug one in CH2 and one in a slave channel, they run out of sync. After I read the work arounds on the channels for the MT12, I went back to it and sold the NB4+

[@brianschultz3812]

Same here. I have destroyed 2 cars this week. One with the 3 channel and one with a 5 channel. Also did it a few times in my trx4 with the radiomaster 8 channel, thankfull he is slow enough nothing was destroyed.

[@Pyro17059]

I ended up selling mine too. Used it several times and had the exact same signal drops. I wanted to love it, but couldn't. I used it indoors (at Richfield) and had signal loss even at those close ranges. Another thing I hated was that once powered up it would sometimes take forever to link , even though it was already bound. Their air radios seem great though!

[@nick_cnc]

Okay, I thought I remembered it was you who also had the MT12 last year. I really wanted to love this radio, too, and I was all on board team open source... until living with the reality of it and not just the idea.

[@nick_cnc]

Hey everyone, Nick here. There were some things I kept out of the video because I wanted to keep it short, but here are some other points I want to make about this radio. First - even after 6 months of use, I still found the UI needlessly complicated and unintuitive. Second - I have replaced the MT12 with a Noble NB4+. Immediately after installing it in my 2wd buggy I noticed I had a much more direct connection to my car. It felt more precise and easier to make the car do what I want it to do. Furthermore, the remote itself physically just feels better in my hands. The MT12 is massive and heavy, and going back to a lighter radio was a welcome change. So even if the MT12 didn't have these fatal reliability/safety issues, I still would not recommend it over something like an NB4. I have also added links in the video description that detail the history of the signal dropout firmware issue. It took over a year after being logged as an issue to finally be fixed. That lack of support regarding a critical bug is not acceptable for a commercial product.

[@ericberner3393]

Interesting that you noted a more precise connection going back to the NB4, since I think you mentioned in your previous video that you felt that way going from NB4 -> MT12. I just started carpet off road racing and am using a MT12. Hope to not have the issues you encountered. Which firmware versions were you running? At least half of the club I race at is using the NB4 or NB4+

[@nick_cnc]

@@ericberner3393 At the time I did think the MT12 felt good compared to my NB4. I don't know what changed - perhaps the improvements going from the NB4 to the NB4+ account for what I feel now. Perhaps I didn't have the NB4 configured the same as I have the NB4+ configured. Perhaps the firmware updates on the ELRS module of the MT12 affected something. I can't be sure, but I do know what I feel now. However, I would still consider the response and performance of the MT12 to overall be "above average" and perfectly acceptable for racing - but not top of the line. ELRS FW's in the 3.3.x range have the critical bug causing the signal dropout issues. If you're going to keep the MT12, your ELRS fw should be updated to 3.4.0 as a minimum. If you're not having the dropouts and runaways that I was having, chances are you'll be fine to run the MT12, though I do believe there is an issue in the design of the rx's that cause runaways in cases of unusual electrical conditions (too much voltage sag in the BEC for example). This is why I no longer trust this system especially for use in my ebuggy. I absolutely will not risk a runaway with that car. But a 17.5 2wd buggy? It would be aggravating, but not dangerous like the ebuggy. Personally that was a level of risk I was comfortable with and so I continued to race my 2wd even after all these issues started.

[@JosephPerito-m6g]

With considering precision, did you change the frequency hrz on the radio and the RX’s as default they’re low and should be put to 333hz on he rx and for the transmitter it should be at F1000.

[@nick_cnc]

@@JosephPerito-m6g yes, first thing I did on every rx I bought.

[@rcvg69420]

@@ericberner3393 I have a radiomaster Boxer I've done carpet buggy with. Same electronics and software, just a radio formfactor meant for airplanes and drones. I say run the newest firmware 3.5.1 but if you have any issues I've literally got hundreds of hours on 3.3.0 with 0 problems across a dozen PWM receivers in different kinds of models, airplanes, buggies, crawlers. The performance of the radio link definitely isn't going to be holding you back, ELRS is one of the fastest and most consistent links you can get. Don't forget to configure your fail-safe correctly. For a buggy with no reverse probably best to set it up for full brakes steering straight.