Railway History - Brunel's Broad Gauge Track

A brief overview of Brunel's unique solution to the construction of railway track in the 1830s, working within the limitations of the available technology of the time.

[@WhyAyeMann]

Informative video as usual, Steve. I didnt know about the track posts in the ground or the fact that the baulks were soaked in mercuric chloride.

[@ing4trainz]

Yes, originally he used a treatment created by a Dr Kyan -kyanising - but switched to cheaper non-patented mercuric chloride and then even cheaper bitumen. The treated wood lasted very well, most of it was fine right up to the gauge change.

[@ing4trainz]

I think that the main determining factor was that all of the small colliery lines had a lot of pre-existing flanged wagons to the 4ft 8.5in gauge, which had been inherited from the coachbuilders who made the road wagons and carriages of the very early 19th century. They also built the early wagons for the coal mines in NE England and elsewhere and naturally just used the same gauge. Also, plateways - where the flange was on the rail, not the wheel - were designed so that road wagons could run on them. The plateway provided a smoother ride which meant the horse didn't tire so quickly and, because of the reduced friction between the plateway rail and the wheel it allowed a greater load to be hauled by one horse (lucky horse!), The most influential line was the Stockton & Darlington because its success prompted George Stephenson to use the same gauge for the Liverpool & Manchester. In other words the S&DR became the definition of a steam-hauled 'railed way', even though it partly used balanced inclines without locomotives. 4ft 8.5in emerged as a 'standard' gauge through evolution rather than by design, hence Brunel's approach of going back to first principles and asking what a railway was meant to be rather than just copying pre-existing colliery lines. As is well known he was rather dismissive of the L&MR, regarding the run as rough and not exploiting the possibilities of the new transport form. It's also very important to remember that in his day the standard track formation comprise individual stone blocks linked by yard-long fish-bellied brittle cast-iron rails. That's why he decided to rethink the whole system. My own feeling is that the broad gauge failed because it very effectively shut out competition from other lines, that's why they forced mixed gauge on to the GWR, so that they could exploit the routes on which the GWR had spent so much money building in the first place. 'Running powers' were an area of constant combat throughout the mid-19th century and it was all about profit, not about providing a service. Ultimately, the gauge wars forced Gooch, as GWR chairman, to sanction regauging despite the many proven benefits of the 7ft, and it should be remembered that this only happened towards the end of the greatest financial crisis before the Wall St Crash i.e. from about 1870 to 1890. 5ft would have been fine, but here in Ireland standard gauge is 5ft 3in and that was decided on as a compromise because at the time no railway used it so everyone had to regauge! It could only happen here, as they say. I certainly feel I'm on the 'narrow gauge' when I nip over the ditch to London to visit relations.

[@neiloflongbeck5705]

No the S&D was originally built with a guage of 4' 8". 4' 8.5" came later, after 1830.

[@ing4trainz]

Fair enough. It sounds like a similar situation to Googh easing the GWR's 8ft broad gauge with an extra quarter inch to reduce flange rubbing on the rail.

[@benlahrman4149]

Funny how in America it was common to have accidents related to rail forming a bullhead in the 1800s.

[@ing4trainz]

I'm sure there were plenty of minor derailments in the early days with the basic colliery lines using short lengths of cast iron rail.

[@neiloflongbeck5705]

The Stockton and Darlington Railway was originally built to 4ft 8in gauge. It was rebuilt to 4ft 8.5in in 1830.

[@bullettube9863]

I've always wondered why they didn't compromise and choose five foot instead of the odd four feet eight and a half inches. Widening the gauge by three and a half inches would not have caused too much trouble. But I guess hindsight is always right.

[@heronimousbrapson863]

Five foot gauge was commonly used in the United States in the 19th century, particularly in the south. In fact, the transcontinental railroad was intended to be constructed on the five foot gauge unti Abraham Lincoln had it converted to standard gauge. Russian railroads were built on the five foot gauge as the Tsar's government employed the American engineer, George Whistler (father of the painter James NcNeil Whistler) to construct their first railroads. Whistler specialised in building on the five foot gauge.

[@user-qp9cd5ng3w]

What a fascinating glimpse into railway history! Brunel's innovative approach to track construction in the 1830s truly showcases the brilliance of engineering amidst technological constraints. If you have an interest in delving deeper into the history of the British railway system, I recommend exploring this playlist: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mXmTeomCbMZsi5I&pp=iAQB

[@chrisgreen4780]

Wider is useful for larger diameter inside cylinders, for steam. Any other prime mover doesn't have that problem and cross sectional vehicle area becomes increasingly significant as speeds get above 125mph. Hitler as a megalomaniac proposed a 3m gauge!

[@ing4trainz]

I haven't read 'Broader than Broad' about the 3m gauge line but I know of the project; very dark, draconian and chilling in concept. I won't be making it for Trainz!

[@dennisroyhall121]

Ha ha! I like that! He was a pretty narrow-minded ( oy! ) nut-case! As one who gets right cheesed off with the popularity bumf of narrow-gauge railways - yearh I know, they’re smaller, have less money, and are generally the mister modest and poor guys, but I see them as more cramped in style for seating and are slower....Well, that said, South African Railways were once upon a time worthy of admiration....On the other hand broad gauge rules in India, providing more space inside, yet don’t they still allow people - non ticket holders presumably - to ride on the carriage roofs? What will they do when they go electric? Or maybe that won’t happen before they reach Mars with our « peanuts »!

[@thehydroblade]

Do any sort of blueprints/drawings exist for this type of rail? I'm keen to build a broad gauge diorama. Cheers.

[@Cashpots]

A good example of why to not listen to KZbin videos for facts. Standard gauge varies through this piece and you would be forgiven for taking what is said here as true.

[@mikebrown3772]

Brunel certainly didn't intend the locos on his broad gauge railway to be bigger and more powerful than those on the standard gauge, he actually specified that they should be lighter than even those on the pioneering Liverpool and Manchester. It was Daniel Gooch who appreciated the opportunities offered to locomotive designers by a wider gauge when he was working for Robert Stephenson & Co. and involved in the design of wider gauge locomotives for an export order.

[@ing4trainz]

Yes, you're absolutely right. Gooch deserves the credit for those GWR broad gauge locos which were successful, especially the Fire Fly class, of course, while Brunel simply stipulated some rather odd requirements to loco builders and let them get on with it. Hence the rather odd designs of that first generation of locos. I guess the main aspect we can draw from the locos - and the baulk road track - is that IKB was trying to think outside the box and redesign railways from scratch rather than relying on the evolutionary development of the old stone-block wagonways into the much more flexible type of track used by Stephenson on the Liverpool and Manchester.

[@ClockworksOfGL]

Around here (Northeast US) a lot of lines were build circa 1830-1850. I’ve often wondered what the rails actually looked like. A local historian claims they originally laid rough sleepers on bare ground (no ballast) and used iron-covered wood for rail. A lot of the infrastructure is heavily constructed and still remains in use. Think stone bridges and fill vs the flimsy trestles use on post Civil War construction. I just find it strange to think they’d spend years constructing stone culverts and filling in valleys and cutting open hillsides, only to lay down cheap strap rail.

[@ing4trainz]

It does seem a little unlikely, especially given the trend generally to increase the weight of rails (pounds per foot) and the gradual switch from iron to steel as the latter became commercially affordable. Perhaps some initial track was laid quite roughly but would have worn very badly and required either frequent replacement (making such track economically unviable) or rapid upgrade to better track. Also, you have to bear in mind that early locos and rolling stock were relatively lightweight so as soon as heavier vehicles appeared the track would have to be strengthenes and/or improved accordingly. I think Buster Keaton's film has a lot to answer for!

[@ironhorsethrottlemaster5202]

Very interesting video I never knew very much about isambard Kingdom Brunel broad gauge wasn't it the broadest gauge that ever was built I know the Russians have a 5-foot broad gauge and in America in the early eighteen hundreds I think we had a 6 ft 3 inch broad gauge on the Erie Railroad I think that's what it was it's too bad that broad gauge didn't succeed because it's probably be a lot faster and more stable at higher speeds I'm just curious what was the largest wheel consolidation on a great western broad gauge locomotive and on another tangent I have lineage from Ireland on both sides of my family that's awesome listening to an Irish Rail fan have watched some documentaries on Irish railroads I never knew that you guys had a 3 foot narrow gauge I knew your broad gauge that you guys used is 5 ft 3 inch if you want to see something strange looking on a 3 foot Narrow Gauge look up the ALL Railroad in South America there you'll see a big standard gauge General Electric locomotive converted to three foot Narrow Gauge and they have 4 axle trucks very interesting video I appreciated it very much I never knew that much about the Great Western 7 foot gauge peace out into the world have a great day my fellow railfan

[@ing4trainz]

I think Brunel's 7ft gauge was the widest used on a major railway network. Yes, all of Ireland's standard gauge railways are 5ft 3in to this day - if I travel over the ditch to Britain the 'standard gauge' always looks too narrow. Ireland's secondary gauge was 3ft and there was at least as much of it in route mileage as the main gauge. Even today there are many miles of Bord na Mona 3ft gauge lines operating.

[@ironhorsethrottlemaster5202]

@@ing4trainz awesome thank you for the reply what's the name of some of these Narrow Gauge railroads I'd love to look them up and check them out I love looking at railroads from all over the world especially Narrow Gauge cuz they're usually custom built to their environment and all their engines are usually pretty unique I'm from America Utah not too far away is Colorado where my favorite Narrow Gauge Railroad is the Durango & Silverton and cumbres and Toltec Scenic Railroad and it's a 3foot Narrow Gauge originally built by the Denver & Rio Grande Western I wrote a train song about the cumbres and Toltec steam locomotive 487 I think you would appreciate it here it goes I'm old 487 and I'm rolling down the track and I don't care if I ever make it back I'm so sick and tired of this life that has become of me I wish the old Rio Grande would come and rescue me oh where the Rio Grande go I miss going down my favorite Canyon Where the big rivers flow oh where did the Rio Grande go I miss going down my favorite spurline where the tracks used to wind it made my Wheels Screech but that was just fine I miss the 2000 miles of track where I used to roam that's the Rio Grande that I called home I miss my Fallen brothers that got scrapped and sold but I thank God everyday that I'm still burning coal the backstory of the song is the locomotive sick and tired of going over the same piece of track everyday peace out in the world have a great day Irish Narrow Gauge rail fan

[@ing4trainz]

Going clockwise around Ireland, 3ft passenger and freight lines, starting in Co. Antrim in the NE: Ballycastle Railway Glenariff Railway Ballymena, Cushendall and Red Bay Railway Giant's Causway Tramway Portstewart Railway Ballymena and Larne Railway Bessbrook and Newry Railway Clogher Valley Railway Cavan and Leitrim Railway Dublin and Lucan Tramway Cork, Blackrock and Passage Railway Cork and Muskerry Light Railway Schull and Skibbereen Railway Listowel and Ballybunion Railway (monorail) Tralee and Dingle Railway West Clare Railway Castlederg and Victorian Bridge Railway County Donegal Railway Londonderry and Lough Swilly Railway A kindle book I wrote on the Glenariff Railway is available her: www.amazon.co.uk/Glenariff-Mines-Railway-Pier-Enterprise-ebook/dp/B07W7648JN/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=glenariff+railway&qid=1598685472&sr=8-1

[@ironhorsethrottlemaster5202]

@@ing4trainz thank you so very much I graciously appreciate the list of railroads I will check them out I love Narrow Gauge Railroad so this is going to be fun and interesting thank you very much ing 4 Trainz I screenshotted it so I can keep that list thank you very much

[@ironhorsethrottlemaster5202]

@@ing4trainz are any of these Narrow Gauge railroads in Ireland operational are all of them all scrapped I'd like to see some operational Irish Narrow Gauge never seen that doesn't even exist still

[@adirondackcarfoundry368]

Do any sort of drawings exist for the fishbelly rail sections?

[@ing4trainz]

Yes, several of the books I have about early railways give line drawings showing the outline design. They are all in copyright so I can't post any. Check what you have, you might be lucky, otherwise look for a good condition 2nd-hand copy of any early railways book.

[@ing4trainz]

I just did a quick Google images search and there are quite a few drawings available online.

[@adirondackcarfoundry368]

@@ing4trainz Cheers

[@andrewwilliams2353]

A very interesting subject poorly delivered. The text ought to have been written out first to avoid all the repetition of matter and halting delivery while we had to endure UMs and ERRs aplenty.

[@ing4trainz]

Thank you for your errr feedback, umm I will try better err next time.

[@Cashpots]

Criticism is not of itself wrong and if the point is fair (which it is here) then they should be taken on board. Also I’m afraid to say some of the facts are wrong too. Not saying the piece isn't interesting, just is a bit wrong in places.

[@benlahrman4149]

Could the GWR have used double decker 7FT carriages? Just drumming up GWR carriage designs for broad gauge like they used to do at Wolverhampton.

[@ing4trainz]

Brunel's concept was for broad but relatively low carriges where passengers would sit between the wheels rather than above them. The vertical clearance was virtually the same as the narrower gauge stock. The only exceptions were some tunnels which, because of their length, needed greater internal height to let smoke clear for footplate crews. In Europe the loading gauge is higher and allows for double-deckers, but the British standard is lower and narrower.

[@benlahrman4149]

@@ing4trainz Perhaps... but if the loading gauge was broad on the GWR, they could use taller rolling stock across the UK. Thus the ability for double stack containers.

[@ing4trainz]

Unfortunately, the 'gauge wars' which led to the adoption of the narrower 'standard' gauge was driven by those companies who wanted to compete with the GWR over the latter's own track without the cost of building it. The decision was based on short-term acquisitiveness, not which gauge might best serve the country in the long term. Inter-connectivity was (and is) a red herring.

[@vsvnrg3263]

@@ing4trainz , 2 points to raise here. indian railways have introduced double-stacked high speed container trains. and they are not using well-cars like in north america and australia. that is the benefit of just 9 1/2 inches. second point - during the second world war, if the australian army decided it needed to move military vehicles from perth, wa to cairns, qld because the japanese were in new guinea, it would require 6, yes, 6 train changes. foot soldiers could just get out of one train onto the next. but they better make sure they didnt leave their rifle in a previous train.

[@AmauryJacquot]

now people have to switch between trains by different private companies, and get various tickets, as there isn't a single ticketing system

[@ing4trainz]

Yes, it is - and was - all about commercial control of 'territory', and forcing the GWR to have other companies use their routes.

[@andrewemery4272]

Brunel is the most over-rated failure in British industrial history