Ranking Every Single Civilization for Arabia 1v1 | AoE2

[@蕭名華]

Hello, TheViper, I am a fan from Taiwan. With the recent conclusion of the Warlords 3 Championship match, I wanted to reach out, despite the narrow margin by which you missed the championship, to tell you how amazing you played. Your strategy in the first game was especially impressive and truly eye-opening. Your understanding of the maps and civilizations, as well as your operational skills, were all outstanding and incredibly inspiring. I also learned from Wayne's channel that your family is expecting a new addition soon. Congratulations and best wishes to you and your family! I hope you stay healthy and happy, and continue to bring us more surprises and joy with your performances. Thank you for your excellent performance in the matches! BTW, I wasn’t sure where it would be appropriate to leave this message, so I chose to comment on your latest video. I apologize if this is an inconvenience. Also, as English is not my first language, please excuse any errors in my message. Your little fan.

[@Gorvinhagen]

You write English better than the majority of native speakers.

[@bulkcity]

ty for sharing aoe brother, from usa texas

[@蕭名華]

@@Gorvinhagen Thank you for your encouragement.

[@蕭名華]

@@bulkcity You're welcom!

[@charlesw8992]

Well said! ❤

[@Edelweiss1102]

It definitely speaks for the balancing that most civs are now A or B tier. But Persians in B tier is crazy to me, I can see them not being S tier, but they have a top 5 win rate on Arabia over all ELO's and scratching top 10 on the highest ELO, feels like an A tier civ to me.

[@conde.nao.com.d]

I weighed them from D=1 to S=5 and got a 3.42 (B to A) average using Viper's ranking. The balancing sounds pretty solid to me

[@PurpleBraveGiraffe]

persian B tier is crazy to me

[@anirsvlogs]

it feels so easy to play with persians.

[@MechMiko]

Get wrecked by hoang* biper: celts gon be alone in D tier

[@iwersonsch5131]

Cumans: Can research TC techs (except ageups) at the mill that way they'd keep their identity of having 2 buildings doing TC stuff at the same time, with a similar outcome of pulling multiple vills ahead, but in a far more orderly fashion

[@davidjameschartrand1362]

Awesome Tier list! Could you do one for Nomad?

[@dolphindudelife314]

S tier: Spanish/Persians/Dravidians Rest D tier

[@jacobbos2208]

Great tier list love the commentary!

[@radicaled3158]

Always good hearing from you. You're the people's champ.

[@slungellife]

I'm dying for someone to make an updated Nomad tierlist. As far as I know no one made one since the great nomad rebalancing. Where they took away all the pre- first TC buffs, that spanish, persians and malians had.

[@2TonTonyGalento]

Interesting he has Aztecs in A tier, considering they are sitting dead last in terms of win rate (46.66% as of 6/9/2024)

[@capriccz]

Can you predict the future? We're in June, not September...

[@mrjustadude1]

That's the American way to do dates bro. Month/Day/Year

[@couchpotatoe91]

There's a difference in how pros play certain civs compared to low elo. You can really feel it with Byzantines, Chinese and Mezo-civs.

[@Edelweiss1102]

Aztecs is one of these weird civs that are amazing for pros but falls off a cliff in lower ELOs. I feel like they have certain timings and unit compositions that just fit perfectly with the play style of many pros. But they struggle if you can't pull them off constantly. And they have clearly been power crept.

[@SoundOfAViolin]

They have a sick all in castle age. That's why. Not many civs can face 3 barrack eagles with 2 monastery and siege

[@jackwaite4035]

Persians are A Tier, great dark age, up a free Vill with flexible openings can play anything, can play crossbow camel, if anyone tries to all in you pull ahead economically on 1 tc play (it feels impossible to lose to meso all in unless your map is just terrible), best castles in the game, only weakness for arabia is they lack bracer but the flexible tech tree, bbc and best castles in the game in terms of damage make up for it

[@MadnessTW]

I'm 99.9% sure they buffed Chinese to prevent people like me from getting housed at 10 pop. It is very easy to fall into that trap when your attention is on the food eco and you're simply not used to having to make a house at 8 instead of 13. It probably happened to a lot of people given their substantial win rate increase after the buff.

[@jacywilson]

Great tier list. Was surprised to see my favorite civ almost get a spot in S tier (Byzantines) I think mid-high A tier is perfect for them. I agreed with most placement, but I think georgians are undoubtedly the best civ in the game right now.

[@sp4tz339]

Saracens S Tier at around 900 elo, because everybody is playing Knights and you can just go mamelukes. 😄

[@Nosferat_AN]

In your opinion, what do the celts need to rise from D tier? as a celts enjoyer i never felt like i was playing a weak or underpowered civ but i am not a highly rated player Great video by the way

[@stooge_mobile]

And that's the hardest part of civ balancing illustrated there. Romans and Celts are awesome civs below 1200 elo. But wow do they drop off pretty quickly as player skill increases. Unless you're Hoang of course 😉

[@melissagrenier2200]

Hoang killed celts for low elo players because everyone tries to emulate him. Celts still look terrible in the 1k-1.1k range

[@mihaelhyata6579]

Maybe give back the dark age militia speed bonus

[@sam_sanister]

You don't have to make an awkward infantry transition if you just go crossbow+siege into HCA+Hussar+Rams ;)

[@melissagrenier2200]

@@sam_sanister I recently found out that crossbow+siege is meta for celts in castle. I looked at their wood bonus and their near FU crossbow in castle age (only missing thumb ring) then thought it might be a good idea to surprise someone by picking celts and going archers. Shared this thought in a discord and someone laughed at me since I was suggesting to "surprise them by playing meta". The eco bonus definitely lends itself to archers+siege

[@arckmage5218]

Right... so where is viper reaction video to this video after sleeping it off for 1 night?

[@alfredeinstein115]

One overall list for RF feels strange - maybe RF flank and RF pocket seperately?

[@TheMonkeyNetwork]

Viper can you do an explanation for Aztec being high A tier even tho the winrate is the lowest at 47%? They are a predictable civ, and thus easily counterable

[@SoundOfAViolin]

It's because the all in eagle, monk, and siege is incredibly oppressive. Your monks get up to 50hp easily, meaning that they are guaranteed converts at that point before they die

[@elsamurai1220]

@@SoundOfAViolin To add. That playstyle requires micro managing which the normie aoe player who plays online isn't very good at.

[@konradpyszniak976]

We have so many civs in A and B that i would love to spit it to A+, A-, B+, B-

[@daarom3472]

just pretend in your head the left side of the row is A+ and the right side A-

[@Chubbajawa]

aint no way grubby didnt provoke this to happen

[@Gunsbeerfreedom87]

Personally I'd put Sicilians behind Celts and Persians right at the bottom of A behind the Saracens. A lot of people sleep on their archer play because they don't have arb or bracer but they're great in castle and even without trash bows can be serviceable in imp especially with cav support.

[@Infinite_Jester]

What changed to allow two-range CA? What was the nerf to Mongol steppe lancers?

[@valenting19]

Magyars team bonus was changed to cav archers train 25% faster (so 2 range CA feels like the correct amount of production), as for Mongol lancers their hp bonus is now +20% in castle age instead of +30%

[@Infinite_Jester]

@@valenting19 Thank you.

[@iwersonsch5131]

Celts: Infantry +10% speed, gain Squires All civs: Squires available in Feudal that way they'd have 10% faster infantry than generic civs instead of 5% (and 0% in Dark), but you'd have to spend Food on Squires to get fast infantry in Feudal

[@konradpyszniak976]

That would actually make mma in feudal very good unit to rush- especially romans. Love the idea

[@daarom3472]

maybe also boost their wood gathering rate but slightly reduce their siege bonuses (give them +15% attack speed and make the castle tech +25% hp at half the cost).

[@harjot21]

Saracens above magyars. Magyars have good early game, but it falls of a little bit until early-mid imperial age. Saracens have so many overall options. Would also put Gurjaras in A tier. Cheap military units and Shrivamsha riders as a counter to archer play puts them their for me.

[@ch-arts-us]

Vikings longswords is what I use.

[@anirsvlogs]

Can you do a video of best civs in this tierlist and composition and strategies?

[@rashan112]

I think you should add an S+ tier, just for Persians. They are insane for me

[@Triangulito360180]

I thought the Persians were stronger than the Khmer, could you make a general updated tier list? 

[@miguelangelcosiorangel2617]

Yay, tier list video!!!

[@Polymachaeroplagides]

More Civs with a "B" in B-Tier!

[@Spicy_wiener]

So you rank Armenians C tier on land maps saying they don't scale well, but they were your first pick in Warlords 3 Semis and you played them on a land map? 🤔 Were you planning on an infantry play like Feudal longswords and then felt like that wouldn't work so had to adapt and try playing cav for some reason? Not trying to be overly critical, but honestly just curious about your thinking. PS: I feel like Celts would be fixed completely if they had FU skirms w/ Bracer

[@tyranitararmaldo]

10:16 YES! THANKYOU!

[@dj_koen1265]

Byzantines in A tier Thats an interesting surprise

[@acarrot589]

Incas are either American or South American civ, they're not meso 😊

[@tlfearofthedarkhun387]

Persians to be honest should be in A tier, that civ is insane on arabia. TCs work faster is great, you have to stop that civ.

[@theSavageHippie]

Conscriptipn for fun is best conscription

[@alexandercastromendez5408]

Persians and Gurjaras should be at least A civs. Both civs got everything to wreck every other civ

[@MrTJK1492]

I don't feel that Persian is a B-tier civ, that surprised me a bit

[@livehealthy959]

Spanish is definitely not c, they're very tough civilization. They should be in A or S. They have strong riffle horses with tough monks and monks who ride horses and decent horses. Solid team

[@forsakenquery]

Have you seen daut play Spanish ? He makes them seem flexible.

[@MorleyGames1]

Malay are D for me lol i have never been able to play as them

[@jerejarvinen625]

They are hard to play

[@windflier1684]

Funny how Chinese are alway put into the S tier from Pros' opinions, while Chinese has terrible win rate especially at low elo

[@vibhorroy9225]

HUNS not S+ tier? WTF? even after that game against yo?

[@kooroshrostami27]

Viper just hates CELTS because they EAT HIS TC.

[@AN-yf2ec]

Huns aren’t the best civ, but they are easily the most fun to play.

[@exinexi]

Love Viper but some opinions only apply to top tier players, that are such a small part of the community. Some cheap tech or unique unit can change this all on lower elo. So I would disagree on celts, chinese, berbers, cumans, spanish, tatars, vietnamese, burmese. Check the global stats, chinese have one of the lower win rate and celts are much higher. Most games end in castle age and the imp blacksmith upgrades makes a difference for a small fraction of the games at all levels.

[@eduardocolella]

We should ask the opinion of amateur player Daut

[@Gorvinhagen]

26:55 B A B civ? He's losing it.

[@frogvelocity7068]

how does viper dare to put bulgarians in B!

[@TheBikeOnTheMoon]

because they are kinda average?

[@jvan6582]

Vikings are a solid B tier

[@dolphindudelife314]

No they are really bad c tops

[@jvan6582]

@@dolphindudelife314 nah

[@elsamurai1220]

Mid to low B unless its a water map. Then its A.

[@jvan6582]

@@elsamurai1220 agreed

[@daarom3472]

Vikings were always S tier and just because they lost Thumb Ring (which most players only get late castle age anyways) doesnt make them bad. They have by far the strongest eco bonus in the game and decent options.

[@youcanthandlethetruth5433]

Celts is not D tier Top tier eco bonus for archers in feudal age. Great castle age all in. Great mono composition with mass woads that kill all B TIER

[@LoutreDuBengale]

Malay, S tier ? You sure ? Without water ?

[@Gunsbeerfreedom87]

Good eco, and the faster age up means you can get better power spikes with say, Xbow or knights, even if the units themselves are generic. They can also make elephants viable because of the greatly reduced cost. Malay have a lot of options They just aren't as conventional in how to get to them

[@GabrielCyprous]

Malay is s+++ tier actually, bro, and its has been for a looooooong time.

[@LoutreDuBengale]

@@Gunsbeerfreedom87 Okay ! I mainly remembered the bad stables and not impressive bows but okay.

[@CaptMeMo_350]

Aztecs? 😂

[@jerejarvinen625]

Persians tho?

[@thegreatbearwolf2915]

Teuton fans 😂

[@Dkeai23]

Merci

[@ColinAoC]

I don't see how Bulgarians go that high. Lacking an early eco upgrade, they feel very similar to Sicilians

[@dolphindudelife314]

Yeah they suck

[@87JJosh]

That's so funny. The Viper has skill issues

[@aspirenux8599]

❤

[@NowenW]

Saracens > All

[@swisstravellearth6232]

Maybe you should definitely come over your bias! Open Techtree do not win you games consistently. 📊 Data beats opinion but it’s very hard to overcome!😢 compare your tier list with recent tournament performance and aoestats and you may find yourself into some very interesting positions.

[@dolphindudelife314]

Pro player opinion is as good as random player data

[@swisstravellearth6232]

@@dolphindudelife314 thank you to remind everybody that everyone at any level or position (managers / leaders / professionals) can improve and overcome dangerous/ malicious/ limiting biases! 👀 Btw, I really appreciate the tier list because it shows hoe Viper sees the game and the civs. I point out that his view is not always reflected in Civs results…

[@ariisee]

He did not place Goths in S+ tier. How unfair!

[@alonscitoz]

Hoang beat you In Arabia With Celts. 🎉

[@thesocraticatheist9611]

Stop making videos when you are high. Teutons in B tier? Then you put Chinese at number 1, are you insane? The Chinese get wrecked by the Teutons. Chu ko nu? here is a siege onager to the face! KAPOW! Rocketry scorpions say hello to bombard cannons, bombard towers, and my little friend crenellations! BOOM! Chinese cav and infantry? against Teuton cav and infantry? not even a competition. Chinese eco bonus with limited power spikes in dark age and castle age, vs Teuton eco bonus that last the entire game, I mean give me a break here. First Hera puts them in D Teir and now this, just unbelievable. And I have not even mentioned the insane Teutonic knights yet. POW!

[@Blackbelt1]

Huns has weak late game.

[@dolphindudelife314]

Only if you dont attack which is under 1000 elo activity

[@TheOhioNews]

Viperrr go practice so Hera doesn't sweep you again

[@Aarjalane]

Nutrider

[@couchpotatoe91]

Rude. How about you practice so you finally break the 1000 elo.

[@gersonmen5742]

Hera uses drugs 😒

[@LeftJoystick]

What a weird and brain-dead comment to make on the day of the Finals. Do better tbh.

[@TheOhioNews]

​@couchpotatoe91 already did. I'm 1k1 but on a break for now

[@gebhard128]

Disrespecting the armenian mule

[@Drazog]

give vikings bloodlines

[@NtK0000]

No

[@taowroland8697]

They should get bombard cannons

[@geoffrey1955]

Viking is the worst civ in the game IMO, their units just suck. Vs arch, your arch always worse, vs kts you have no halb, vs infantry your infantry normally worse

[@PrinceContreras-w8n]

3rd hahahah

[@qwertwetify]

Hera > Viper

[@dolphindudelife314]

Your opinion < anybody caring whatsoever.

[@cwnhaernjqw]

Why should I watch your tier list over Hera's? You haven't won a series against him or a tourney in over a year

[@majike0355]

1. It's an objective list made for fun. Different pros have different opinions, and it's interesting to see them. 2. What's stopping you from watching both and forming your own conclusions for your ELO? 3. Even at Viper's lowest, I'm sure he would absolutely demolish either of us in a 1v1. His opinions on the game holds WAY more validity than some random salt-bearer in the comment section.

[@vistasiulam]

because you don't have hera's micro control of units

[@stratbomb]

Also, the best players are not always the best at analyzing and ranking certain civs. Just as a soccerplayer might not be better than a coach or manager to put teams against each other and compare stats.

[@JonGunnarssonDotA]

How dare he make content about a game in which he's only the second best player in the world?

[@dolphindudelife314]

Stop obsessively hating

[@AyaanKhan-vg1ze]

Man why r u taking SOTL's AOE content. Like stick to just ur games and pratice. Youre washed up and got destroyed by Hera again. Retrie mate

[@youcanthandlethetruth5433]

Stfu. He didn't get destroyed. It was competitive except for that Mayan Aztec game. Plus he was playing at a timezone disadvantage. Fkr was yawning away before the 7th game. Put hera in a timezone disadvantage next tine let's see what happens

[@AyaanKhan-vg1ze]

@youcanthandlethetruth5433 quiet down u 800 elo rag. He knows what time the match is, and that it's a bo9. He lost because he's no match for hera anymore . He won 1 game easily and 2 other games by a straw. He's been outperformed outmacroed and microed by hera everytime. Go look at their previous matches He always loses. Using sleep as an excuse is just sad scrub😭😭😭

[@dolphindudelife314]

You have an anime pfp and no life. Stop hating.

[@youcanthandlethetruth5433]

@@AyaanKhan-vg1ze 800? Noob im well above that. I'll reck you noob. 1v1 lets go. Get your lover boy heras dik out your mouth too. Viper was this competitive despite not grinding nearly as much as hera. Hera also won the arena game barely with the bombard cannon moments. It could have easily gone the other way.

[@olivet7499]

I don´t even want know what´d be your opinion from the other participants LOL