Ranking The Power Level Of Commanders

[@saleen12]

Miirym is absolutely terrifying. You are wrong

[@PALIGames]

I played Miirym, and i ended moving it to the 99 because I started to feel guilt running it. And when it did really good, I got 3 manned a lot.

[@jacobstone4070]

Would be interesting to see you rank your own commanders' power levels. Maybe see some that you would rank low power

[@edhdeckbuilding]

great idea.

[@SamySapphyre]

I'm curious too! It definitely makes me reflect on how I view my own commanders!

[@heecks9375]

Good idea, I'm curious as well

[@Toothbresh]

I have a Juri, Master of the Revue deck that my pod calls "We have Korvold at home"

[@SamySapphyre]

This is definitely a deck I think about building a lot. Do you have a decklist to share? :)

[@Toothbresh]

@@SamySapphyre There are quite a few on Tappedout!

[@Linguistic1]

That's f'n Hilarious! Lol.

[@Barjay1987]

I think that Korvold's Cedh viability was killed with Dockside being banned. Now he's probably just a strong Jund commander.

[@platurt9595]

Yeah I think so too. Korvold cedh revolved entirely around Dockside and even then it wasn't that good. I'm sure there are Korvold players trying different angles and it's probably a more interesting deck now, but I'd be surprised if it makes a return without getting some new tools. Still way too strong for casual tho.

[@Barjay1987]

@@platurt9595 yeah. Kinda sad about it. He was probably my favorite one to play for Competitive.

[@allanholman8302]

I've been thinking about a Korvold land sac deck... Could be good...

[@Acepilot12345]

​@@allanholman8302that's what I have for Korvald. Build up my lands sac them/ return them for crazy landfall triggers. It's really f Good. Obvious the major weak points is graveyard hate.

[@agrocreepers]

You guys know korvold has already put up results in cedh tournaments right

[@LordQQQ]

It’s necessary to ban Nadu because it was a mistake card, and they didn’t realize the ability works with equipment when making it. Other high power commanders that you described were made to be that way and did what they were supposed to.

[@edhdeckbuilding]

lots of mistake cards in commander. i would say sol ring is a mistake.

[@sweetandsaltyminx7310]

​@@edhdeckbuilding I'm pretty sure they mean that the card was a literal mistake, as in WoTC didn't mean for it to work the way it does. They even said themselves they redesigned it last minute with almost no playtesting. Sol Ring was printed to do exactly what it does, and magic's power level was very different at the time. EDH wasn't even around when it was made.

[@JayoticMTG]

Yeah, Sol Ring is a product of brand new game design being overtuned, and we’ve all grown accustomed to it because it’s in every precon. Nadu was changed last minute and rushed out the door before play testers could spot the combo potential. It also grinds games to a halt while the Nadu player tries to piece a combo together for 20 minutes. Both could be argued as mistakes, but they’re different kinds of mistakes.

[@JayoticMTG]

I think a lot of people who used to play against Meren remember how much of a powerhouse it was, and they tend to overrate her today. Even compared to Muldrotha, reanimating or recurring one creature on your end step is a far cry from casting one card of each permanent type on each of your turns. I think she’d probably be a 6-7 on this scale realistically.

[@ondrejprochazka8486]

Absolutely right. Meren is mid now

[@SamySapphyre]

I agree and was surprised to see Demo list Muldrotha at the same level. I didn't play EDH when Meren was first printed, but I do have a Meren deck and it is one of my favourites. She needs a long time to get the engine going and needs to go into the late game before really making any headway. I might be an outlier, but my deck doesn't run edict effects and the only board wipe is Living Death, so I might be rating my deck differently to how it could be built by others. I view Muldrotha as so much stronger, the addition of blue and returning all permanents means it can be so much more combo-centric - and this is generally how I've seen it being built and played. I still love Meren though

[@JayoticMTG]

Especially if the scale is “9-10 is cEDH territory”, Meren at 8 is insane. I’d be much more scared of Jodah the Unifier, Animar or Korvold than Meren.

[@Shimatzu95]

Honestly meren at 8 is kinda fair, considering how often decks just dont have gy hate.😅

[@ondrejprochazka8486]

@@Shimatzu95 at best it brings back one creature per turn. Even like Chainer can bring in 3 mana per creature at instant speed repeatedly

[@dbzdragon7155]

As a response to Urza I have actively built my deck and made choices to where i don't use his bottom ability and remove cards that allow for combos that take too long and lower the fun of others play experience. I don't have this deck on Moxfield at the moment but I will respond to this post with my deck a bit later.

[@danielcharlebois1626]

Same. I quickly realized how powerful Urza is and changed from a stax build to a thopter token build. It's more fair at my table without using the bottom ability.

[@yourchaoticboi8199]

My group hates Ms. Bumbleflower out of every single deck I have.

[@slyness4688]

Will you expand on this please? I am very curious as to why.

[@yourchaoticboi8199]

@@slyness4688 so I made my deck cast low cost spells in addition to buffing my creatures, having a lot of card draw, as well as having enough mana for some counter spells or some evasions. Smothering Tithe is what ties the deck together but it still functions pretty decently without it

[@slyness4688]

@@yourchaoticboi8199 Haha, I haven't put tithe in mine just because it's crazy good. Glen Elendra seems to be my most annoying card, according to others. I really like Bumbleflower because each game becomes its own little puzzle. Also, she becomes a beater a lot quicker than people think.

[@yourchaoticboi8199]

@@slyness4688 I never would've thought to add that card. I did add white mane lion to use on my opponents turns to bounce it back to my hand to trigger Bumbleflower consecutively

[@yourchaoticboi8199]

@@slyness4688 Hullbreaker Horror with White mane Lion works so well together

[@casketbase7750]

Here's how I spot a broken Commander: *it's effect text lacks a tap symbol or mana cost.* Look at every card in this vid. They're all triggered or continuous abilities that either go infinite or outvalue fairer cards who need to tap or pay mana to do the same things.

[@jaysuede2627]

Broken or not, there is a strong overlap between being a better commander and having unlimited uses of a function.

[@Shimatzu95]

"Effect lacks a tap symbol.." Me pointing at the run of the mill kiki jiki combo deck 😅

[@marthblood9991]

I played the surveil precon (basically out of the box made 2 upgrades but nothing crazy nesting ground and soul diviner) and my friend played his meren deck absolutely DOMINATED the game until I flashed out a toxic deluge then dropped a bojuka bog on my next turn wiping out his grave I won pretty handily after that.

[@cody98533]

People who play against my krenko act like it’s impossible to deal with lmao, just kill krenko or board wipe and watch me struggle to recover in mono red

[@TheSushiandme]

I just want a commander like Aurelia to include Ryu and Ken. 😂😂😂

[@Chilipotamus]

I love dinosaurs and, as such, built a pretty middle of the road Gishath deck, nothing too highly optimized imo, but man oh man does it get going a lot easier than I expected. Especially if I get lucky and someone else at the table assumes the role of "current threat" and let's me cook up some madness while everyone else deals with them.

[@leagreenall5972]

How about the old school legend that has become so EDH relevant - 'Captain Sisay' ?

[@cread13]

thats my most played commander deck. just green white legends toolbox. its a fun deck that can play at most power levels

[@leagreenall5972]

@@cread13 Agreed.. I have one I've had for years. Was cEDH champion when Paradox Engine was legal - turn 3 wins 80%+ of the time. Now I can play it however I want - stax, modified, combo, combat, poison... anything. Heck even search out Karn, and immediately get Mysocinth Lattice to shut everyone down... then there is always the constant threat and wincon of Urza's Ruinous Blast... Modern day players just don't see it coming - a tutor on a stick... some hate it, others - meh - until they feel it. Definitely my favourite commander.

[@Greatestnesss]

​@cread13 I'm currently working on a Sisay deck, looks like fun

[@cread13]

@@leagreenall5972 i play mine very differnt ya its a tool box but my tools dont lock people out of the game mine just hinder them and dont effect my. no do i have any tutorable i win combos in it. its just legend tribal with the legends haveing a lot of utility. also i almost always make people underestimate it by tutoring lands first to make land drops. then suddenly i tutor a card that stops the aristocrats player from sacing creatures for value or one that says no to re-animating lands, etc. and ya ruinous blast is so good in the deck a wrath that doesn't hurt me that i can tutor for is very nice

[@coreyroberson4550]

As a long-time Captain Sisay player, the best card I've added in recent years is Sting, the Glinting Dagger. Even if she only survives one round, you've got 4-5 tutors. And when she lasts longer...

[@cteal2018]

I think the best build of Atraxa is counters/proliferate and good stuff. I only play 2 infect cards both at instant speed combat tricks (so the ability for a 1 turn KO to someone is there), and I hove to give my self +1 counters. I also found the Atraxa herself can be a win con once you get +1 counters on her. Key for her is to get her out on 3 if possible and then just start pumping stuff up.

[@theblart7535]

I think Atraxa, as you said, is the poster child of "I don't fear your commander, I fear your deck" whereas commanders like Gishath are much more about "I fear your commander, your deck is fine". Both of them can be really powerful and go near and sometimes above 8 on the complessive power level of the deck, but sometimes is the commanders, sometimes is the deck (enabled by the commander of course). In the case of stronger decks (9 or above) is usually both.

[@Nick-rc2lr]

Surprised not to see Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy in your list. His ability to just ramp like mad means he can keep coming back out and ramp hard no matter how many times he's removed. And being able to flip into a big creature like Eldrazi keeps me on my toes. Great video though!

[@edhdeckbuilding]

probably a 10 as well. at least a 9.

[@mr.c5681]

the way I see it is, some commanders are just built in stronger ways. For example, while atraxa doesn't have a very strong ability, the cards people usually play in those colors are very expensive and powerful and they aren't punished for not committing to board because their commander is such a good deterrent and stabilizer. A play pattern of dropping atraxa then farming value into a tutoring an emergent ultimatum line is probably a high power 8. However, a deck like this would cost upwards of $1000. A commander like gishath probably feels so much scarier because you could build a very competitive dino deck for

[@kylescott7654]

Korvold is what introduced me to highpower cards and my love for Jund. Once alters/food chain/dockside came into the deck i realized pretty quick as fun as it was for me It was a complete bore of a night for my friends(LGS gets the heat i dont feel bad lmao) tossing him into my 99 of my Ziatora deck still lets me have fun but within a "Harder" means. Still one of my favroute cards though.

[@MedievalWerewolf]

I have Meren in the 99 of my Beledros. Used to have Muldrotha in the 99 of a Nashi deck but took it apart because I may as well have just played Muldrotha - which I did not want to do. First and only game I played against Mully took a BILLION TURNS, and the pilot kept bouncing everyone's board infinitely. I was BEGGING for a Bog but never got it. AGONIZING!

[@SamySapphyre]

I have to be honest, the last time I played against Muldrotha I did concede. Maybe the only time I have. I was also playing a graveyard deck (Meren), and it was just being hosed by Muldrotha, nothing stuck on the board and my graveyard kept being exiled. They locked the other player out of the game (can't remember exactly how) and repeatedly recast Mystic Remora from the grave.

[@dangerpieren2045]

Ive seen a blood mooned najeela, they still won that game even though they had no basics or enchantment removal

[@designoutlawlivestream]

Wow my atraxa deck is my favorite deck and people really hate her to the point where I could sit down with any group and be the archenemy without ever casting a spell.

[@jaysuede2627]

A very real problem. You could have zero planeswalkers or infect and you're still Atraxa, so people will try to kill you. And all too frequently you'll hear something like "that's what you get" for playing it.

[@designoutlawlivestream]

@@jaysuede2627 My first deck was modular and now days it is extra turns because I have to 3 v 1 and its the only way I can keep up

[@dariocampanella7992]

Thoughts on the video 1. Myrim would have been a fair izzet commander, giving ramp capability and green card draw tipped the balance. 2. Seing najela made me think about OG ghirred, that is able to fuel himself but is weak to wipes, the difference is that it doesnt have a broken ability on the top of that. 3. I am surprised that demo didn't ranked his worst nemesis, new etali, the blightsteel colossus in the command zone, it would probabily at 10.

[@firecrest3325]

Arcades Wall tribal is my favorite deck. No non wall creatures... all walls.. all fun.

[@cteal2018]

Thought on some of these cards in the 99. For example I have a Lord Windgrace aristocrats/landfall deck that sometimes have Corvald in it. What do you think when one of those 9-10 power lvl card show up from the top of the deck?

[@elonex777]

Ideas for a part 2 video: Teysa Karlov Light-Paws Orvar Rionya (underated commander) Feather Queen Marchesa Zur both old and new one

[@Dtoszi]

God, Teysa is always my deck where I think I’m just going through motions and suddenly the entire table is dead while I never realized I already pinged everyone for like 38

[@elonex777]

@@Dtoszi sometimes it's hilarious you are strike with 30+ damage and regain like 40 with Kokusho or others cards. There were a lot of good cards for her lately.

[@MrJpurvis620]

Was a little nervous when I had a deck come up, pleased to here the result 😅

[@williamharrington3595]

my guy .....miriym .... you don't get that a dragon tribal commander in RUG with Ward 2 that copies dragons isn't popular.... and a "reluctant" 7? lol not sure what mtg you're playing....

[@edhdeckbuilding]

i'm playing mtg against miirym. and i still don't get it.

[@williamharrington3595]

@@edhdeckbuilding lol what's the most popular tribe in MTG. I'll give you a hint - it rhymes with bragon

[@edhdeckbuilding]

@@williamharrington3595 yes and the ur-dragon is already the 2nd most popular commander in the format. so we got that covered.

[@williamharrington3595]

@@edhdeckbuilding ya but not everyone wants to play ur dragon. Miirym is OP as hell man you can lose super quick. those colors are brutal

[@Shimatzu95]

For me its the problem of mixing simic qualities (excessive ramp and cardadvantage + counterspells) with a kill on sight commander with ward that additionally has a triggered ability that ignores the legend rule and is usually cloned (any non token clobe effect works) to exponentially make matters worse. A good example for how strong this ability is even when much more limited is tawnos the toymaker using beasts and birds instead of the overall strong tribe that is dragons.

[@joriswind445]

It's funny to see what happens when you put a 8-10 commander in the 99. I played toggo and thrasios as a pair and I noticed that, pre game, ppl already had an opinion about my commander and i got targeted from the start (it is a pretty jankt deck btw but needed the colors for it to work). So I swapped it with kydele and now the opinion of my opponents had changed and I'm able to play the deck better thrasios is still in the deck Having these powerful cards in the 99 can help to protect your strategy, they often work as a lightning rod for removal and keep the really important gamepieces for your strategy save on the board.

[@Shimatzu95]

Arcadeas and krenko are on the short list of verry powerful but fair commanders that i often loose to but can't realy be angry about it ❤

[@533rudiger]

I really enjoy your videos! I gotta say tho as a muldrotha player, I’m constantly looking for games where she takes off. Can you actually find any games on KZbin of her blowing up? I can’t. Usually some non consequential grave yard looping while someone else’s board blows up. In games I play, graveyard hate immediately shuts it down. I’ve seen leyline of the void in an opening hand and there are so many bojuka bogs floating around now cuz every precon comes with it.

[@Bumbum_Inspector]

My favourite commanders are Dromar the Banisher, Sidisi Brood Tyrant, Kelsien the Plague, Ulrich of the Krallenhorde, and Yahenni Undying Partisan. Pretty sure all of mine are somewhere between 5-7 at best lol.

[@obsidianshark4206]

I need help understanding this rule from Felhide Spirtbinder when you make a token copy. "Exile it at the beginning of the next end step". Is the next end step on my next turn or the opponent's end step after my turn. What I was told that it's exiled at the end of my turn.

[@shadowrypre]

My wife has the Meran PreCon deck with very little splash updates to it and I cannot beat her to save my life. So yeah a graveyard card is definitely needed to win. I don't complain as it is all in good fun for us.

[@Harbord]

I tried to make the most casual kaalia deck possible and it doesn’t feel like you can. Even with cheap and not great cards, she was still crazy strong

[@jamesweber8509]

Feel that's all extremely fair evaluation

[@MisterManuva]

I think you are evaluating Urza and Thrasios with a double standard. Both rely on a combo that produces infinite mana to activate the ability indefinitely and eventually win. With Urza it's "what the deck is doing" whereas with Thrasios it's "just a combo in your deck" Of course Urza's ability is more powerful, I get it. But Thrasios has green to ramp and partner to access more colours. A 4 points gap seems too steep to me.

[@edhdeckbuilding]

urza turns your artifacts into mana rocks. there really is no way to build it badly.

[@MisterManuva]

@@edhdeckbuilding Fair enough. It's true that he does not need as much buildaround as Thrasios. I guess you can build him "badly" by not having any high impact card for his ability and truly only relying on his constructs. I still believe that if Urza is a 10, Thrasios deserves to be at least a 7, going with your evaluating system (more colours and more flexibility). How many "fair" Thrasios decks (using the ability only for value) have you faced and how do they compare to any "fair" Urza deck (not using the ability and mostly being a big blue artifsct deck)?

[@ryankosack2249]

Great video! Question, what would you rate Frodo & Sam? I'm new and my friends who are new say it's really good and it's a top 50 in popularity but some games I feel like it does nothing especially if "you can't gain life" gets thrown on the table.

[@otterfire4712]

I'd put them as average at best and chock a lot of their popularity to being a LotR pairing and being the face of a precon deck. When you put them together what you have is a white, black, green commander that creates one food token at the start of combat, makes food cheaper to pop, and if you gain life before you attack you get tempted by the ring and you'll draw an additional card on the after being tempted. The best I see for them is being a slow, cheap, repeatable draw engine for other cards. The problem is that you can do far more with your food tokens (see Samwise Gamgee) and there are more effective commanders under their color identity that generate value of any kind such as "Ixhel, Scion of Atraxa", "Tayam, Luminous Enigma", and "Thalia and The Gitrog Monster". These all generate some form of card draw for you while doing more beyond even that, Thalia and Gitrog also generates more lands for you and slows your opponents' lands on top of being neigh unbeatable in combat as a 4/4 with first strike and deathtouch, Ixhel lets you steal up to three cards from your opponents each end phase with which you can use against them and all it takes is for it to hit each opponent a couple times or just once and you use Proliferate to add the third needed poison counter. There are also cards like Ghave, Guru of Spores which makes great use multipliers and death triggers. Cards like Doubling Season gives you more saprolings from removing counters, Hardened Scales gives you an extra counter for sacrificing creatures, and there are many black colored cards that have triggers for when creatures die, giving you all kinds of power. Tl;dr Sam and Frodo are average at best as their game plan is very simple, small, and insular which let's you be a little more open on deck building but they lack potency of other commanders in the same color identity.

[@ryankosack2249]

@@otterfire4712 appreciate the insightful reply! I was worried I was gonna be playing a commander everyone would groan at when I pulled the deck out but after playing it a few times it didn't feel too powerful unless something like the one ring or tree beard getting 30 counters in 1 turn happened.

[@otterfire4712]

@@ryankosack2249 I feel like you could still do that and more with Samwise Gamgee, you'll get more food tokens, you can recur a wide array of cards, and still fit Treebeard quite naturally into the deck. Opponent kills your Treebeard? Samwise can sac three foods to fetch him back for you to recast and get the same three foods needed to recur him, addition etb triggers that can stack or food multipliers and now you're netting more food with which to use to recur, heal, or even use as mana for Improvise, Affinity, or cards that let you tap food for mana.

[@otterfire4712]

@@ryankosack2249 If you really want to capitalize on The One Ring and Treebeard, build Samwise Gamgee. He produces far more Food tokens and makes better use of them than Sam, Loyal Attendant. A good example of this is pairing him with Treebeard, creating three Food tokens in total which could be used to bring back The One Ring to your hand if it was removed or milled by an opponent. Pair Samwise with cards that let you double token production or enter the battlefield triggers and you can start positively netting food tokens, which can be used as mana with Improvise or food related enchantments. There's also an artifact creature that lets you create an additional clue and treasure when you make food tokens, giving additional mana and draw power.

[@Greatestnesss]

I love my Animar deck, but as soon as I start bouncing and replaying stuff a lot people just quit.... yes animar has like 30 counters on him now and I drew like 20 cards and half of them I can cast for free now, but that doesn't mean I've won lol

[@r.w7987]

What powerlevel would you guys rate jodah the unifier?

[@justinorman8608]

I tend to agree with your grading of these cards. My problem is that many others at my LGS would greatly disagree with you, as they would easily but all of your ratings up by at least two

[@ivernedit]

Just built a UB kindred deck with warhammer najeela and I have 3 warriors in the deck and it hasn’t felt strong at all. Nice to have chump blockers as I play my memes.

[@taurincochran3398]

Just curious. Where would you put Dromoka, The Eternal? I have a deck that has won several matches with just her on my battlefield. 😂

[@Sparrow141420]

Dude, if I see Kenko I assume it's going to be combo. Also I would hardly call it a goblin tribal deck. Mirrym is also definitely not slow, green ramp is fastest in class, not to mention all of these colors cheat casting costs, blue is best at exploiting ETB triggers over and over, and red has some of the best ETBs, attached to dragons specifically. Also curious about the overall shakeup of your ratings, if Atraxa is 6 I'm wondering if we are looking at things the same way. She has all the best interaction in her four colors. The proliferate on her is not the primary poison counter applicant, but it is the lube that take the whole table down a peg every turn. No one is applying a counter and trying to proliferate 9 time with Atraxa. But if after three turns she's added 9 poison counters to the table, closing that gap is not difficult. :P and also it's your scale, and TBH I imagine you have more foundation to be talking about this. I do wonder if your experiences are colored by your own playstyle, since you often talk about how much spot removal and wipes you include. You groaned and joked but still basically said "dies to removal" or "bad after a wipe" a few times, which feels like a control player's opinion.

[@BattleAxeRX]

I built a janky narset, Enlightened Master. I was flipping stuff like tap two creatures and draw. My group ganged up on me so much i ended up making it a burn deck to make it viable. I really enjoy it. Where would you all put it? 8?

[@finneganmahony7743]

People don’t understand is that “casting Atraxa” isn’t a strateg

[@simonchi5372]

Thats been one of the best strategies in standard since atraxa 2.0 was printed tho.

[@rainbowcrash6990]

As somone who runs animar and loves it, Im def curious to see your thoughts. I like tuning it, being more or less dependant on the commander, and swinging it between combat focused or more utility/combo.

[@Rubber_Duckie763]

They don't fear Atraxa. They fear Stax

[@edhdeckbuilding]

who's playing atraxa stax?

[@RobotDCLXVI]

​@@edhdeckbuildingI play everything stax

[@Dtoszi]

@@edhdeckbuildinglol, who isn’t? Atraxa, Blind Obedience, Stasis, Smothering tithe and rule of law while poisoned.

[@masterdanthegod]

animar - dragons with Miirym in 99 is nuts

[@666cashley]

Animar is the first commander i would recommend to anyone trying to get into the format.

[@dustinfindsrocks]

There’s some really nasty commanders. I’m not sure Jeweled Lotus and Mana Crypt were really the problem. Ygra is so combo crazy Diabolic Tutor can be a turn 4 or 5 win. You don’t even need any banned cards. It’s easy! If they can’t interact you just win

[@AgusSkywalker]

Krenko is clearly an 11 because goblins are the best

[@amc6169]

Have to disagree on your statement about krenko/edgar. They are not the #1/2 of aggro, i think if properly built, that title falls to Zada Hedron Grinder. That is the most explosive deck i have ever seen, it can draw its library turn 5 with no infinite loops

[@BigHat501]

I gotta say after playing against a buddies korvold many many times. Its really not that bad of a commander. Throwing darksteel mutation on it pretty much kills what the deck does and i feel like a lot of commanders on this list, even though they are powerful, arent strong strategies. If you can keep the commander off the table you basically win. Strong commanders equal a worse overall deck

[@FlaminGinga]

I think a more accuracte term would be power potential, rather than level. And each individual card has its own bottom or ceiling in regards to that. Which makes me think that creating a ranking system of power levels will only mislead, divide and aggrevate the magic community as a whole

[@sebastiancasas6776]

What do you think about the other atraxa? I cant help but feel it has a much better effect on the game despite being much more expensive.

[@Dragon_Fyre]

The original is better to build a deck around as a Commander IMO. The second is far better suited to reanimator, blink, etc. where you can ignore the casting cost and get absurd value.

[@sweetandsaltyminx7310]

I've built it, it's a count to 7 and win the game deck most of the time. Especially with something like a mana doubler. Throw in any blink effects and it becomes a massive nightmare for the table to deal with. I ended up taking it apart because it was too strong.

[@kakuofwei]

My Cmander is Eloise, Naphalia Slueth. What would you rate her? I have the ability to win with this deck within 6 turns. If the catds are right XD

[@bartoffer]

Man, that reminded me that Erayo is banned. I've always found that one to be particularly stupid.

[@Linguistic1]

I was Playing Arcades Back when it was Doran...

[@OniTreefolk]

Demo, as much as I know you would detest it, I would love to see you influence the decisions in Commander format. 😂

[@TheAngelRaven]

TL;DR: While I understand that you - EDH - have either your own set playgroup or are genuinely set on your view of Commander, I feel like some of your views on Commanders and their power is wonky. LHA Urza is powerful, Najeela is power, and Nadu is powerful, but of the three I'd rather have a Nadu at the table. Why? Because they will most likely be targeted out first due to slow play since Nadu's issue wasn't entirely his effect but his slow play. He is Paradox Engine. Nadu has SO many triggers and so many points of interaction that he can just slow the game down for no real massive game state change other than having more cards in hand and maybe a few lands on the field, while Urza decks [This is all assuming you build your deck to do its job] will most likely win far sooner and faster. Urza still gets hated out, at least by me due to PTSD of starting out playing against a Tuned Urza deck, because he's the posterchild of 'Blue Player'. Najeela is a deck I'm baffled by you saying even her first ability is powerful. Sure, if she has ways to make tokens tap for mana and give them haste? But most times she's just a cEDH Commander. Najeela, as a true Warrior Tribal deck, would most likely be far more enjoyable to fight than the other three or most dedicated Tribal Commanders because then her gameplay isn't 'All the value creatures, plus infinites.' Animar being anything but a 10, given you specifically mentioning it's hard to not make a strong Animar deck, doesn't make sense when the typical Animar deck would generally be Eldrazi/Big Colorless creatures. At the end of the day, power levels are subjective to playgroups and personal preferences. I started out playing against a tuned LHA Urza deck [He took the deck apart and we still play together, he understood that his old playgroup was gone and the new one was far different at the time] so my bias is seeing Blue+ decks as threats. I'm a Timmy player at heart, but will absolutely enjoy a nice combo deck every now and then.

[@HelixCardsUK]

I'm trying to build Breya but with energy and some artifact synergy. Can anyone help as I don't think she's as strong as thopter/ treasures this way.

[@masterdanthegod]

Atraxa always get a groan from the table as ppl always feel its yeah either super friends or toxic. Which yes i have 1-2 of each as good tools. But i run +1/+1 counter abuse as i like the jank stuff you can do, does it win YES but i have to work to do it.A 6 i feel is right. but if Atraxa is killed every time i play it (80% of games) i sit and do a lot less which is sad due to ppls hate of other decks feels unfair as i also dont like super friends or toxic too much myself so i dont play it. can be tough to convince a new table i think im trying to say my local pod fine with it. Also lifegain crazy good in atraxa builds.

[@R.Truth20]

I think valgorath will be on a similar power level as korvald. Card draw and getting +1/+1 counters is broken

[@devindabney198]

THANK you. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard players say decks with busted commanders and jank themes are not strong. Even some famous MTG content creators do this. “It’s just a Breya *vehicles* deck!” “It’s just an Urza *planeswalker* deck!” Doesn’t matter. Your commander’s busted, and that’s okay. Embrace the villainy. 😈

[@AC-xs8gr]

What do you think about the sliver commander and their power level?

[@Greatestnesss]

Playing Slivers in paper is more of a headache than it's worth imo

[@Dragon_Fyre]

Which one ? First Sliver ?

[@AC-xs8gr]

@@Dragon_Fyre yes

[@Dragon_Fyre]

@@AC-xs8gr I have a First Sliver deck. It’s a good deck but expect exaggerated threat assessment from opponents. People just instinctively hate on them. I mostly play defensively as arch-enemy because damage is irrelevant. Once the cascade engine is operational, not much stops it. Just have to watch out for Farewell before you really get going. The other board wipes barely even slow it down.

[@SamySapphyre]

@@Dragon_Fyre I smiled reading this comment because you answered your first sentence with the third...I'm not sure people overreact to slivers given 'not much stops it' once it gets going, probably why people will target the sliver player! :D

[@helrayzer]

What about Toxrill or Brago?

[@zacherygottshall9178]

I don't think you understand just how much stronger Nadu is than everything else on this list. It wasn't just a cedh commander, it shattered the cEDH and became arguably the best deck. Urza and Najeela are fine and fun in high power casual games. Nadu... it's just too strong

[@starmanda88]

It is very strong but it did not shatter the CEDH meta

[@thomaspetrucka9173]

One of the reasons that I don't love the removal argument is that I don't want to have to spend all my removal on Kaalia, for example, especially if the person playing her is going to get butthurt about it. She, and Korvold, and most of these fall into the "always a problem" category for me. But they're flashy, so people pick them up, and feel bad when I slow them down, even if it's the objectively correct thing to do. I just want to avoid the feel-bads. 🫤

[@SamySapphyre]

This is so true. One of the hardest lessons to learn when you first get into EDH is recognising that by playing these commanders and their decks, you are, by definition, the problem. Kaalia was my second EDH deck (after Edgar), and I was absolutely butthurt when she would get countered or removed. Thing is, she DESERVES it. It's slow by 2024 definition, but if I drop in Avacyn or Balefire Dragon, you bet my opponents are going to be bricking it. I took the deck apart (and Edgar) very quickly afterwards and found my play style not long after that. But this is what would stop me from building Korvold or other commanders with reputations that they rightfully deserve.

[@thomasmuller2727]

Would you give a power potential for Kokusho? I cant understand why people are so scared even if i tell them i dont have tutors or fast mana.

[@Lazydino59]

You’re playing with absolute children then he’s a mediocre commander at best. Raw number maybe a 6?

[@okgut2033]

answering that dragon with non exile or rip like effects means 5 life is gone, and you have most likely 15 more life that's a 20 life swing! but more likely, it's cause loops can be made, and if it's done, you represent that much life swing each loop. but yes, there are stronger things. just look around the table and compare the broken stuff everyone does to what you do and talk with them instead of us :D

[@kylelloyd4437]

I would rate these as power potential. It all depends on how someone builds their deck.

[@gemkid85]

Urza is so strong that you literally have to de-synergize it to make it casual.

[@Bryan-T]

Thrasios is far better than Arcades. I wouldn't give Arcades more than a 4.

[@cread13]

just because the deck is helmed by a strong commander doesn't automatically make the deck hi power. an example is my najeela deck is just a combat triggers deck she is the leader but the real commanders are wulfgar and Isshin. i just run najeela as the leader for colors and she sorta works the same as them but it requires me to do additional combats to get extra triggers from my creatures. the deck has no way to untap my lands during combat or produce extra mana during combat so im very limited on using her for extra combat steps if i use her at all.

[@okgut2033]

agree, but also, there are some degree you can go before it's a pile of cards doing something else that your commander dictates. like how representing is it to play najeela mill?!?

[@Auzweed]

Used to be a 7…..now I guess it’s a 3 from what wizards is putting out.

[@JeffreyGoddin]

Maybe I need a simpler video. I got hated on for playing Yarok yesterday like it was some inappropriately superpowered commander. I didn't quite understand why everybody reacted so viscerally, and this video seemed like it might be educational, but, Urza, obviously a 10? Not obvious to me. Honestly don't see how Najeela is busted either. I'm betting it has to do with busted combinations of cards I'm unaware of (yet nonetheless drew hate for.) Perhaps elaborate on this for those of us less than a year into Commander? Side note: you're playing Orzhov and somebody pulls out an Animar do you walk or tell them to gtfo? Feels rude. I'm playing Orzhov, play something else. Or if you're playing Animar and see somebody else is playing Orzhov, do you switch or cackle like a maniac as you are now certain somebody's about to have a terrible game?

[@OneStarProductionsStudio]

My two strongest decks are myrel shield of argive which has the nickname “krenko but white” and my war doc partnered with the impossible girl. War doctor is scary because I run graveyard hate but not even to hate on gy, he just really likes the exile from leyline of the void/planar void/rest in peace and can win from cards like necropotence and tainted pact.. also ppl dont like that I flash in tainted strike on a 10 time counter attack trigger..

[@tackle47]

Wrong that Urza is ALWAYS not viable in casual. I run a Urza vorthos deck. I run all the old Urza cards aka Urza’s Engine, Mitre, Sunglasses etc. it is decent as Urza is inherently great but have had one person think it was overpowered at the table.

[@antonioarmas5125]

As a person with the “Dinosaur Autism” I love my Dinosaur deck, but Gishath is so overrated and just isnt the best Dinosaur commander imo, Pantlaza is 100%. Less mana and you can play anything for free if ur discover equals the mana amount. And I’m not saying Gishath is bad he’s very good even when he lands just 1-2 dinosaurs and he is the 2nd best Dino commander, but Pantlaza is so much more versatile and more unique. Again I love Gishath, but I’d rather have him in my 99

[@Screcy]

Tell me you haven't played against Arcades without telling me you haven't played against Arcades. I have a dude who plays that commander and you'd think you can just remove the commander but it's always useless. The deck has so much ramp it's always back next turn with mana left open to play more walls. Cuz most walls are cheap. He plays the walls, draws more walls again. You kill the commander again, he plays it again next turn with more walls again etc. etc. On top of that he always has walls left on board and those can have interesting synergies. From my experience the walls player is just as annoying and hard to deal with as the sliver player. And if the whole table needs to focus 1 guy to keep him in check that commander is not a 6 lol

[@Bryan-T]

I'm much more scared of Miirym than I am of Gishath.

[@Dragon_Fyre]

They can always whiff on Gishrath trigger, but it has to be dealt with the same as Miirym.

[@MedievalWerewolf]

Myrim hits the table way sooner via ramp if it's built properly.

[@okgut2033]

if you play less than 30 of a typal, what are you even doing? i can understand that with dinos or dinos with wings, you wanna have not as much as something like an elf typal or at all lower mana curve typals. but for giga shad, i mean gishad you wanna hit your dinos man.

[@KilWilShow]

Its John Extirpate

[@nanoglitch6693]

@@MedievalWerewolf And usually wipes the table a turn later if she isn't kos'd.

[@tackle47]

Once again there are levels of casual. Some like high powered casual aka not cEDH viable but using powerful cards. Hopefully the tiers will push us towards playing the power level of games to be balanced.

[@ondrejprochazka8486]

Logic in this video is odd to me. Thrasios especially, 2 mana cmc commander is really strong on its own, partner makes it nutty and on top of all it’s an outlet for infinite mana? It’s way too good for a 6. Who plays Thrasios without infinite mana? Even if casual, everyone and their grandma have 20 ways to do infinite mana.

[@dave_8600]

I think the premise of the episode is flawed. Commanders don’t exist outside of their decks. Some of these ratings are baffling.

[@jfabre]

I disagree so much on animar being a 7 while korvold is a 9. This card is a design mistake he virtualy has hexproof and good evasion winning before t7 isnot that hard with him. However if you keep countering animar and boardwipe, sure thé deck do nothing. And for kaliaa and master of cruelties.. that dors not work. I mean yes but not the way you think. Master of cruelties needs to be declared attacker and not blocked. Kaliaa put it tappee and attacking. Nombo

[@ericodermatt5669]

To me all 2 color Partners are a 10

[@cw5948]

Calling thrasios a 6 is nutty. It is one of the best commanders in cedh. You have to consider what it is capable of when running it in a fully optimized deck. Just having partner alone makes it very valuable.

[@edhdeckbuilding]

your completely missing the point of the video. this ranking is without a completely optimized deck.

[@tegarsatriyo2443]

@@edhdeckbuilding i think putting thrasios and arcades on a same power is a little bit off. thrasios is 2 cmc and a mana sink, even if you dont have its piece like training ground/seedborn muse, just leave 4 mana open to threatening your opponents, and if nobody plays an impactfull spell, just sink it to thrasios. and he is also a ramp creature, pays 4 to put land from your deck tapped or draw a card is nuts.

[@edhdeckbuilding]

@@tegarsatriyo2443 leave 4 mana open to do anything is good. you could just cast any instant speed spell. for 4 mana i could cast a counterspell, pongify and nature's claim. that seems better than scry 1 draw a card.

[@Garl_Vinland]

While some commanders definetly hold an edge over others, it’s the deck itself that determines the power level, not the commander itself

[@bryceduyvewaardt8136]

Agreed, as an owner of a janky Sen Triplets deck (let me know if you want an explanation) as well as a try-hard Henzie all-creatures deck.

[@BingbongRecto]

Um no

[@DeiselsFaded]

alright build atraxa with 99 lands and tell me how good it is ​@@BingbongRecto

[@Garl_Vinland]

@@BingbongRecto Um yes. I don't care how good Urza is in combo, if you're playing him just to create a Karnstructs tribal deck he's no worse than the other Urza cards.

[@WhizzerdSupreme]

The "power level" of all commanders is 0. You can't play them without the 99. The 99 is what's relevant, and every deck is variable.

[@edhdeckbuilding]

tatyova is a 7 no matter what your deck is doing. unless of course you aren't running lands. that whole point of this video was rating commanders regardless of what your deck is doing. saying that all commanders are zero is just silly and wrong.

[@WhizzerdSupreme]

@edhdeckbuilding What's silly and wrong is the "power level" thing in the first place. There's never been an actual objective metric for it. At least the new WotC system has an actual metric. Up until now, if I ask, "What set of cards turns your deck from a 5 to a 6?" I'm not going to get an answer with an agreed consensus. The fact that people end up debating power level is evidence that it's not an accurate and objective measurement system.

[@edhdeckbuilding]

@@WhizzerdSupreme there is no objective metric for any magic card ever. this game is all opinions.

[@tedyoat]

shorikai, is a 6 or a 7?

[@okgut2033]

you have 17 shrines total, so it has to be half as much for its powerlvl (round down). but i also can see an argument of it having only 6 shrines in its extended artwork, so it's a 6.

[@starmanda88]

@@okgut2033shrines? Isn’t shorikai a vehicle? Am I hallucinating?

[@BaldurtheImpious]

No zur?

[@lordmalkom1675]

Edgar is for me an 8 to 10. I really hate Eminence... And far too fast for a nice casual commander game. The rest is fine. I hope in the new 4 categories, they include commanders you mention with 8 or more to be automatically strength 4.

[@notgate2624]

2:25: "I don't wanna see it in a commander game regardless of what your deck is doing" idk I'd rather not completely write off a commander regardless of strategy. They could still do something interesting and janky with it. I built a landfall deck with Carmen, because I felt he was so strong (for our level) I'd either win immediately or he'd never get to exist longer than a turn (my experience with Xyris). Once I explain to my opponents I'm doing Orzhov landfall I doubt they'll care that the commander itself is so strong.

[@RastaReiki]

What about Tergrid? I have Tergrid deck that wins turn 4

[@Kararch]

Everything is a 7 in the end...

[@therevolution3117]

"I have never lost to an edgar Markov. " dude shut up. You are full blown capping. I can hear the seething hate through your teeth. Same with kranko. You have played weak decks. Period.

[@covfefe5842]

Hey there brother, don’t be disingenuous. Obviously Nadu is much more problematic than smashy-face Najeela or dumb busted artifacts Urza. Those decks tend to just win on the spot, and those commanders are also fine in the 99. Nadu, by comparison, is a toxic non-deterministic timesink regardless what zone it is in. It is hard not to read this as deliberate tapping into resentment over the recent bannings; playing the heartstrings of discord if you will. It’s frankly beneath what should be acceptable in public discourse. I know you need to make money to support yourself and your family, but this is *not* it. You should be ashamed of yourself, and I hope others besides me will tune out this kind of thing. I won’t be back.

[@FatstaxMTG]

I’m ngl these rankings are wild takes at best and reminds me that a 1-10 scale doesn’t mean anything because everything is a 6-10

[@edhdeckbuilding]

jedti ojanen is a 1.

[@chrislap6541]

This guys grammar is painful

[@BeWrong666]

Nadu is not "powerful" it just takes too long to take a turn.

[@PushyMeas44]

Nadu was incredibly powerful. It was one of the top performing decks in the cEDH metagame before the ban.

[@scrumpypancakes406]

I think the "power" comes from being able to churn through your deck for free with anything that equips for 0. Perfect example is Lightning Greaves, one of the most popular equipment in commander. 5 mana + another random creature puts all your lands on the board and the rest of your deck in hand. Just dogshit design and the design team even said it was printed not as the final version they were working on.

[@cw5948]

Living up to your username 😂

[@starmanda88]

@@cw5948😂😂😂