"RapidGate": What We Know About 2018 Nissan LEAF Rapid Charging Woes

[@alexanderhamilton8585]

Getting people to understand that if you can charge at home, you NEVER "wait to charge", because your car charges itself when you're asleep, is the difficult part. I didn't really understand that concept until I was LIVING it. I realize now, that, as an EV owner, I spend ZERO time "recharging". I NEVER wait for my car to charge. I wake up, it's ready to go 250 miles, and I'll NEVER drive 250 miles. So, I just go about my business, and don't worry about a thing. Then, at the end of the day, I park my car, plug it in, and go to sleep. It's that simple.

[@420031]

Not worried a bit. Using it as a commuter, I am likely not to ever use DC quick charge.

[@transportevolved]

Excellent! And to be honest, we think there will be plenty like you!

[@bnkwupt]

It should suit your needs very well for many years. I would, however, still expect to see battery degradation over time due to normal operation with no thermal management.

[@vhog666]

Yes. Active TMS should avoid also a faster battery degradation...

[@carpenterfamily6198]

I too am annoyed about this, because I love what Nissan has done for EVs over the years - but feel it's long over due that they include an active temp system. I have a 2016, and think the 2018 range is perfect. As I'm a metro EV driver this rapid gate would never affect me. But I'm annoyed with Nissan because they are not listening to want people want.

[@ScorchedEarthRevenge]

I've had a 24kwh leaf for 2.75 years. I've considered upgrading, but think I will wait a couple more years. The limited range is only a slight annoyance right now. The car has saved me €11k in fuel so far. The more I save the bigger my budget for its replacement.

[@hdrobbe8990]

I drive my '18 SV 75 a day round trip to and from work, and I have no need to rapid charge through the week. This weekend I drove about 170 miles and I rapid charged once for 15 minutes. As I said on Ian's video, the '18 Leaf is not a long distance EV, and people should not treat it as such, or try to make it into one. My other house is 727 miles away and I fly there every other weekend. Not everybody will share my usage condition, and if I needed a long range EV I would have bought a Model S. However, driving 500-700 miles when I can afford to fly is something I will never do.

[@phileasler5401]

I have a 2018 Nissan model S, with quick charging heated seats & steering wheel. I owned or leased it for only 2 month. This is my 3rd Ev. Absolutely love the car. I have quick charged the car 3 times just to test it out. It appears to go up about 5% on the new battery meter that’s in the 2018 leaf about for every 5 kwatts you in put. I put in 10kw and it went from 30% to 40% on the battery meter. Couple days later put in around 15kw and the battery went from 30-50%... more juice more heat is introduced. Again I love my 2018, but I also have a small gas pickup for longer trips...just wish their where more fast chargers available, especially on the way to the beach. 90% of my driving is within 75 miles and the leaf works out for me with 5 stars.

[@bnkwupt]

Very well written review of the issue! Great summary.

[@WesInCode]

It's all about use case, buying time frame, and availability of alternatives. I live in a hot climate, and I chose the Nissan Leaf over the Chevy Bolt. My 2005 Mazda 3 was totaled, and I needed a car NOW for my 60 mile daily commute. I was not going to receive a Model 3 in time, the Huyndai Ioniq is not available in my state, the VW eGolf is not available in my state, there were no Ford Focus Electrics within 1200 miles of my city, and I didn't like the BMW i3. This left the Bolt and the LEAF. I test drove both and preferred the LEAF. I determined that even if the battery degraded to 50% of it's rated capacity, it would still get to to work and back. I understand the lack of active thermal management will have a negative impact on the range, and I'm okay with that. This car is a good fit for me, and can be a good fit for many informed consumers.

[@alexanderhamilton8585]

You made a bad decision. You should have bought the Bolt.

[@donatoottawa]

One small correction at minute 4:25: It is still an assumption that this problem will only be experienced on the 3rd charge. I argue that there is a high probability that the slow down in rapid charging will be experience on the very first rapid charge during the warm summer. But who takes a long trip in the summer, right Nissan?

[@jimknight4602]

The Nissan Leaf has had this problem for quite a while. People in Phoenix Arizona have complained about very slow charging times in the summer months where it can get between 110 to 120 degrees Fahrenheit. In addition when someone wants to travel from Phoenix to Flagstaff they have to climb up a hill in the same temperature conditions and their car slows down to 35 miles per hour. Anytime you have a passive cooling system starting out 120° ambient temperature there's going to be a problem.

[@mboyd549]

Seems to me that Nissan DOES have a thermal management system that prevents the batteries from being subjected to repeated QC attempts which might overheat the batteries. Limiting the charging to 50% on your 3rd recharge in a row during a single trip is a great idea. This might make for some tricky planning though on those long trips.

[@joeaverager]

I often drive one of several Nissan Leafs that belongs to my employer. I lived with a 62KWH car this summer and had no heating problems until I tried to fast charge in 95F weather. Yesterday in a 40 KWH car I fast charged about 35% in ~68F weather with no heating problems, drove ~130 miles with no heating problems and then returned for another fast charge session before I handed it off to a coworker. The battery management system regulated the sub-80% charge to about half of the 50 KW charger output. I saw the battery temp top out at the beginning of the red zone during that charge just like when I charged the other car in 95F weather. At no other time have I seen an indication of a hot battery regardless of how I drove the car including through the Appalachian mountains. So - as long as a person r needs a car that can L1 or L2 charge and seldom or never needs fast charge - the Nissan Leaf is an excellent car. It is not however a long distance travel car where repeated fast charges are required. I think Nissan should have said that more plainly but their owner's manual could be interpreted to be saying that very thing. The average non-technical consumer will never understand the hints towards hot batteries and the long term consequences IMHO. In a couple more years they'll sunset this car and its aircooled battery and it'll be a moot discussion. I've really enjoyed these Leafs that I drive from time to time and would happily own one. My trouble is I generally keep cars a LONG time and worry about replacement battery availability in a decade or more once the factory is no longer building them. Nissan isn't supplying the early cars with batteries very easily or cheaply forcing some people to seek DIY solutions which I am perfectly happy to do but the average consumer is not and should not pursue for safety.

[@SNORKYMEDIA]

pity nissan never tell prospective customers of it's limitaions

[@FunCityFrenchus]

Thanks for the informative update on the Leaf!

[@Trades46]

While dialing back DC charge speeds is bad, it does mean Nissan does care for battery longevity moreso than the prior generation Leaf. Yes it is no replacement for proper TMS, but that is going to be addressed in 2019 with the 60 kWh battery. This issue seems overblown unless you take the Leaf frequently beyond its primary use - as an everyday commuter it is hard to fault.

[@mshoneysunshine2]

This whole thing amazes me for 2 main reasons: 1) I don't think this should surprise anyone. Long before this car was released there were several bloggers that pointed out that this could be an issue. Including Transport Evolved. There is actually a really good one buy James at Electrified Journeys where he did a similar test months before the car was released outside of Japan. Which brings me to my second point. 2) WHY would anyone that drives more then 2-300 miles on a regular basis by this version of this vehicle. This is turning into a marketing scandal because it sounds like people aren't appreciating that fact that the long(er) range model was announced at the same time as this one. You'd think anyone planning to use fast charging that often and/or travel those distances already had the good since to know that this vehicle wasn't designed (or marketed toward them). Lastly I'd like to say. I really, really Love Transport Evolved , mostly because I think Nikki is brilliant ... buutttt......, I did think that this issue was handled a little askew. I feel like a lot of people are looking to justify there own biases and this kind of reporting feeds into that type of thinking. I do recognize that Nikki did mention very briefly that some Nissan owners my not every find this to be an issue because of there typical range usage, but that was after what has been about 3 or more episodes dogging Nissan for making a car clearly not meant for distance travel. Please keep it fair and honest as you typically do.

[@Gdank72]

I would guess that less than 1% of Leaf 2 owners do a journey like London to Glasgow regularly. I’d then guess it would be only 0.1% of Leaf 2 owners that do MORE than that! (Unless you are a KZbinr). Therefore I feel this has been blown out of portion for click bait on other sites. I recently brought a Kia Stinger .... the US have an AWD version with All Weather tyres fitted. Because of the this the top speed was reduced from 167mph to 140mph as the all weather couldn’t do the speed of the summer tyres. If you had read the forums you would have thought it was end of the world!! But how many people drive at 140mph let alone 167mph? Same with this story ... how many people really drive non-stop for more than 350miles? Plus it could still be just an overprotective bit of software that Nissan can patch.

[@keeperMLT]

We are not entirely rational about our expectations for our cars. Think of the people who buy 4x4 SUVs because they go skiing in the mountains once a year, rather than buy a smaller/cheaper car and rent an SUV once a year. Similarly, even if I only make one 600 mile trip a year (like lots of Americans), I would be frustrated by knowing that my car will make that a miserable journey and include a three hour stop outside a Chevron. My frontal cortex says "Just rent a car", but my amygdala wants to feel like I can leave on a moments notice. The media at large does swing wildly from "this new technology is perfect and will save us all" to "this new technology has an imperfection and is therefore worthless", but critiques like Nikki's are well balanced. This is a deficiency on the Leaf relative to its competition; likely dropping it behind the Ioniq, Bolt and base Model 3.

[@ianburr1177]

John Snape The ev technology so far has been to emulate the gas powered car so that the consumer is not worried about range. OK I have a Tesla and regularly travel through Europe, though I am unlikely to buy the new leaf, I could have done and would now be kicking myself.

[@richardpetek712]

Is the Leaf a second / secondary car for the majority of the population? Or only a mid-range commuter car? Then I don't have a problem with it. But if it should become a first (family) car, well I drive a few times a year these "more than 250 miles" (= 400 km) - on some road trip or on vacation. And when you start in summer at 25°C, only the first fast charge will be - fast. Try to cover 500 or 600 km (approx. 370 miles) and you will know what I mean. If you need a car only to drive you to the nearest airport, well, then the Leaf 2.0 is fine.

[@TheOnlyJizz]

I think you're missing the point. Whilst you might not do something regularly, you might sometime, and in all other BEV's aside from the Leaf, you can.

[@zilfondel]

Richard Petek i bought the 2015 Leaf as our secondary car but as it is newer and cheaper to operate, plus being more responsive in traffic compared to most cars it is now our primary.

[@billytaj7708]

Nissan! You was so close. So so close! Tbh I know it won't affect most people but a the mainstream media will pick up on this. Also if you got a bigger battery you are probably a longer distance driver. Shame they didn't put a 22kw type 2 on it too. But I await the 2019 model.

[@rhandtaru9786]

This does effect everybody even if you never make long trips. The fact that the battery degrades faster due to no cooling is a worry on its own.

[@rogercmerriman]

Rhand Taru to a extent yes, to be honest is unlikely that even Tesla will have the same longevity as a ICE car, so realistically most will deprecate reasonably rapidly, EV are in many ways are new tech, think how many charging standards there are, this will consolidate as the tech and market matures. Until EV’s are lasting are being used and sold in their 2nd decade, and the push to maintain resale value over that length of time like there is in ICE cars some 50% of cars are still on the road at 15 years old, which is how old my car is I see plenty far older, it is still worth thousands rather than hundreds of pounds. I think this may be a fairly deliberate choice by Nissan, since well the tech is still new, the cars are likely to loose value, and as long as new buyers don’t care for the time being that’s probably the right call.

[@emceh]

The is no worry about battery degradation as charging is so slow when battery is rather too hot but... With such battery I'd like to travel between cities 100km apart at speeds closer to 80 miles/h. This will warm up battery even faster and as I need to rapid charge on the way back this will be way slower (below 40kW mark). So 90 percent of people might not notice that but I would. Nobody in Germany will buy such EV as they do long distances at high speeds almost every day.

[@rogercmerriman]

emceh even with slow charging, batteries degrade, and sadly the Nissan Leaf historically suffered more than some others. While the battery tech maybe improved it’s unlikely at this point to, be solved, you do hear of Leafs having replacement batteries, and or loosing a fair bit of range, clearly that was the older model so have to see how this one pans out.

[@richardpetek712]

+Roger Merriman, do you know why Nissan suffered? Because of a design where they didn't think enough ahead, or what could be even worse, they could do it on purpose! When the old and small battery degrades by 20%, what will you do? Buy the new car, of course! And they are doing the same $hit again!

[@htiek30120]

Good story. I hope Nissan corrects this issue soon. In my case the lack of an active thermal system for the battery was a deal breaker. I started my BEV search for a used Leaf but ended up purchasing a practically new i3. A new Golf-e was my first choice, but unfortunately they are sold in my area of Virginia.

[@averydavis8522]

My wife and I just purchased a 2018 leaf we do not feel like the problem with rapid charging is going to be a problem with us because we don't makes long-distance trips we are very happy and we hope that the 2018 leaves do very well by the way the 2019 Leaf we would not be able to afford

[@manuelgschwend108]

Thats not true. Most people dont need that much long range capability. And the problem in the first place is nissans softwear which reduced rapid charging and by doing so extends the leafs battery life.

[@michaelrees3216]

Neal Archer; what an attitude ! Manuel MUST be lying; fooling himself that he's happy! The man made his choice( as have I. I only ordered a Leaf yesterday, it will be perfect for my needs, and I never want to buy petrol again!), and is enjoying using his car as his needs dictate. You obviously feel that anyone with a different view to you, is deluded. Pathetic.

[@averydavis8522]

Michael Rees sorry it took me so long to get back with you I'm not fooling myself because my wife only drive 75 miles a day so we do not need any rapid charging the only problem I see will be in a resale value of my 2018 leaf hit me back

[@michaelrees3216]

Avery Davis I wasn't suggesting you were fooling yourself. I was being sarcastic with comments made by Neil Archer.

[@seannicholson7553]

Yes I had this problem on third charge of the day. Nissan customer service told me only one rapid charge per day. Not what I expected when I bought the New Leaf .

[@macnei]

I drove about 140 kms @ 120 km/h in my 2018 LEAF - stopped for a quick DC charge, 20 mins and took 13.2 kWh - battery temp went to about 75% up the scale on the screen. Weather temps outside were about 25 degrees celsius. Temperatures definitely rise up with the DC charge, and no way to cool them down.

[@GNiessen]

We have a new 2018 Leaf, but aren't likely to see it as described. But my wife has gotten alerts when she tried to immediately charge after a half an hour drive. I haven't caught it to see what the issue was, but it may be related. We might have to delay the start of charging to allow for the battery to cool. Which will be a training issue.

[@enusser6695]

I have ordered a new Leaf, i accept it is a midrange EV and it´s ok for me. The battery just has to work until the solid state battery comes up.

[@stevecagle8002]

I have a 2018 and I'm seeing no issues.. Love the car

[@TeslaModel3Adventures]

We did a 250 mile round trip today.. it took 10 hours in a 2018 Leaf. Setting off from home we left on 100%. At motorway speeds we managed 91 miles to our first rapid charger. The battery temperature was already in the middle of the gauge. It would only take 22kW from the 50kW rapid charger. It only got worst from there... on our next stop we were charging at 14kW... it was our first long distance in an ev, and not even our car, as it was a loaner until our new e-NV200 40kW is allowed out of the showroom... don't ask why we can't have it... long story... which I need to get to the bottom of. Anyway so now we're starting to have serious doubts about long distance trips... and can only hope our new e-NV200 with its active cooling proves to be better. It has been a nightmare of a day. Hull to Blackpool and back.

[@mr88cet]

I’m glad to hear that your understanding is that the gen-2’s “passive” cooling system does at least include a forced-air system. Still a bit iffy for down here in Austin TX, but definitely a whole lot better than (essentially) nothing at all!

[@jamesheartney9546]

The lack of a TMS in the 2018 Leaf was a matter of concern at its first announcement, with many observers astounded that Nissan would neglect such a basic component. There was some vague handwaving on Nissan's part, along with assurances that they'd thought through the whole design and decided an active TMS wasn't necessary. If it turns out this DCFC story is true, and not having TMS means rapid charging is crippled, this is a terrible blunder on Nissan's part. They'll deserve all the bad publicity it generates. Having said that, I'll just mention that even with a usable rapid charging capability, in my neck of the woods a 2018 Leaf is still just a glorified city car. Get outside of St. Louis in almost any direction, and there aren't rapid chargers spaced such that long distance travel in a Leaf is practical. The continuing refusal of legacy carmakers to create even a fraction of the capability of the Tesla supercharging network means even longer range versions of Leafs/Bolts etc. will end up falling back to Level 2 chargers in any distance travel, at least here in the U.S. midwest. It's ridiculous.

[@knifeyonline]

They don't have a thermal management system? I thought they just didn't have an "active" thermal management system... You could have a passive system that works better than an active one, like in a computer. You could spend $400 making your case fanless and it would probably do a better job of cooling than a stock fan and crappy heatsink. I wouldn't jump to any conclusions one is always better than the other, for starters passive systems don't break down and overheat your $10,000 battery for the sake of a couple of $10 fans.

[@knifeyonline]

not that I'm pimping for Nissan, they may well have released a p.o.s. I have no idea or opinion lol Also good point about charging infrastructure that you made James. They aren't putting in enough effort considering how much money they have to play with.

[@richardpetek712]

Well, +Joseph Stott, Nissan Leaf 2.0 has only active heating. For passive cooling it should have a huge heatsink and a decent airflow. If there is one, it does a crappy job if even driving at freezing temperatures doesn't cool the battery down. And even if it would, it would be almost useless at temperatures above 30°C. So no, Nissan does not have any useful Thermal Management system. It just waits for the heat to dissipate. If you are afraid that fans could break - well, they could be redundant (more of them) and they could have sensors / indicators if some is broken. Now there is - nothing, it's just a bad excuse from Nissan.

[@alexanderhamilton8585]

The Owners Manual for the 2018 Nissan Leaf makes it clear: Don't drive this car for a long distance, and don't use quick charging.

[@richardpetek712]

+Robert Harrigan, *If people knew that when they ordered the car or if they are OK with that now, fine. But only if.* Most EV users don't charge as smart as Bjorn Nyland, who tries to maximise charging speed to minimise total travel time, as he did in the 1000 km test. They charge from "low level warning" to 80% or even close to full. That first charge in the 2018 Leaf 40 kWh should be actually good or at least very decent (>35 kW), if the battery wasn't too hot already when they started, for example in summer or from previous driving. It should take 40-60 minutes as Nissan claims. All the succeeding charging sessions will be at 20-25 kW, so from empty to 80% it will most probably take 1,5-2 hours, so doubling the time. Have people deliberately bought a car with a 300 km / 200 miles range, give or take, and they knew they could go sight-seeing at every succeeding charging stop? If not, this was a deception.

[@alexnefi]

I own a New Leaf and do a 200mile/325km trip every Weekend. So far I've done it twice, the first was a catastrophe because I rapid-charged on the same day, so naturally the battery was hot from the start. The whole journey took me 5:30h which is ridiculous for a 200 mile distance. I spent 2 hours in total on charging. The return trip was better, I charged to 97% on the day before and drove until the battery indicated 2%, it got me 193km at 100km/h motorway speed. Charging to 80% took 51 minutes. The second leg was another 150km at 100km/h, arrived with 3% remaining and charged again for 15-20 minutes, which only got me up to 25%. The total trip took me 4:50h, which was better but I'd like to get it down to 4:15h. I really hope there is a way to fix this problem, because I can't imagine how bad it will be at the first charge in summer.

[@ianburr1177]

A good report..thank you.

[@blxtothis]

I watched Bjørn Nyland’s video on a long journey he and a buddy undertook together in a new Leaf and a Hyundai Ionic. He’s a Tesla owner but covers the whole realm of EV vehicles. In all his material, he comes across as impartial and very technically thorough, he’s living in Norway and is naturally well versed in the subject of Green Energy and Electric Vehicles. I can’t quote up to date figures but EV sales are very impressive up there. To their surprise the Ionic was much better over the prolonged mileage despite having seemingly inferior specs, same conclusions as the UK test, battery temperature being a major issue.

[@TheWaterman1000]

Wonder if I can get help. Have a 2018 model S the charge timer shows no days to set. Is this normal? Can't get answer from the Dealer or even Nissan.

[@madmotorcyclist]

I have one of the original Leafs (#712) and only drive it for short trips. I've been careful and only fully charge it prior to trips that exceed 20 miles so that when the car is parked for awhile the battery pack is always 80% or less charged. At seven years my battery pack still fully charges all bars and have lost about 10% range. For longer trips I ride my Harley instead. The Leaf is garaged and I suspect that helps it a lot. Just recently I had to replace the accessory battery (discovered you can't charge without it), so I really don't have any complaints about this car. I suspect the car will last me many more years on the original battery pack. Maintenance-wise electrics are the way to go given that I have spent maybe a total of $500 over the seven years (incl. a flat tire).

[@PaulFeakins]

You charge to 100% for 20 mile trips? Amateur! I usually get back home with ~4%. I know my car ;)

[@michaelrees3216]

Paul Feakins aren't you the clever one?

[@PaulFeakins]

Michael Rees I'm glad you agree ;)

[@petermacgill2516]

madmotorcyclist aa

[@dennislyon5412]

This shouldn’t be a deal breaker for everyone considering the 40 kWh Leaf. This car will still cover a bunch of your annual miles and is able to recharge at home overnight with no battery issues if it’s used in less than desert temperatures, and the 40 kWh battery allows for greater distance in cold temps - nearly 100 miles daily? This is a better commuter car than previous Leaf and even with a 33% or more battery capacity increase it still costs less than the outgoing version. Volume sales depend on cost reduction, and Nissan did a good job pricing this car where they have. It’s now much cheaper than the Bolt, and it should do ok if the press doesn’t kill the 2018 sales. How many times per year do you drive more than 300 miles in 1 day?

[@dennislyon5412]

Neal Archer - keep your current car for those trips. An EV as a local runabout or commuter makes a lot of sense, and saves a bunch of gas. Driving local - that’s where the bulk of my miles are. If just 1 car is permitted, keep it local and rent an ICE car for the occasional longer drives.

[@michaelrees3216]

Well said mate

[@georgiojansen7758]

1300km once a year visiting a friend

[@michaelrees3216]

georgio jansen for just once a year, you could hire a cheap gas guzzler.

[@georgiojansen7758]

Michael Rees yeah you're wright,but fear,anxiety let me keep agila mk2 lpg. Rebranded Suzuki splash

[@runningguy98]

The reality of long distance driving is this: even on a gasoline car, you'll be lucky to average 50 to 55 mph over a 500 mile trip, counting the stops. When I had a Leaf, assuming a functional rapid charger network spaced every 75 miles or so, I could average 42 mph. I got rid of the Leaf for a gas car because the network where I live now is not correctly spaced. The question is whether a car can do 500 miles in 12 hours or not. If it can, it is suitable for long distance driving. Start with 100% and 150 mile range, drive until you have 50 miles remaining, charge to 80% or 125 miles range, drive until you have 50 miles left, charge to 80% or 125 miles left drive until 25 miles remaining. That is 375 miles with no range anxiety. Assuming 45 minutes for each charge and an average on the road speed of 60 mph that is 7:45 minutes to go 375 miles. Compared to somewhere around 50 mph in a gas car. The notion most people want to do nonstop roadtrips through the middle of the night is nuts. Trucks with two drivers, yes they are always in motion. But a passenger car? Not really. I think the absolute maximum one day road trip is 500 miles. That is where the Leaf has an issue. But even that isn't that bad. Assuming the rapid charge is limited after the second charge, it needs 2:18 of charging to get enough energy to go the last 125 miles and essentially 2:00 of road time. That is a total of 11:50 minutes to go 500 miles in the new Leaf. The average speed? The same 42 mph the old 24 kwh Leaf could get on a long trip, so I for one don't see the problem. It isn't as if Nissan made it worse. They just didn't change it.

[@zerix01]

Michael Guss - I do pull an 850 mile road trip once a year in one straight go and I do not see most people being as crazy. Typically I do start to really feel the fatigue at around 500 miles in. So that likely is a good stopping point for the majority of people.

[@billytaj7708]

zerix01 if I was doing a such a long distance and needed to do it in a certain time I'd just rent a car. Nissan used to give you a free ICE car for a couple of days for such trips.

[@transportevolved]

Your point is extremely valid -- It's exactly what I was getting at when I said you'd cover 3-400 miles before encountering this... ^ Nikki.

[@OriginalPiMan]

I've been a passenger in a >1000 mile trip in under 24 hours.

[@damaliamarsi2006]

I drive about 1200 miles in one day before I stop. Drive for 600 miles , 5 minute fill up, drive for 600 miles, fill up again, take a 4 hour nape and drive another 600 miles for a total one way trip mileage of 2200 mile or about 3500 kilometers. Then 2 weeks later I turn around and do it again.

[@nanianmichaels]

From what I've read and seen on the subject, it seems this might be a 1st-gen Leaf battery issue all over again. Apparently (and I'm not sure this is true or not, but would explain both the accelerated degradation rate of 30kW batteries and the QC limitations on the 40kW ones), it might all boil down to pack density, or more specifically, how many of the cells in any given pack actually have heatsink contact. Again, from what I read about it (and again, not sure if true or not) 24kW packs' cell modules allow all cells to have direct heatsink contact. On 30kW batteries, modules don't allow for all of them to have heatsink contact, and on 40kW batteries, modules allow for an even smaller number of cells to actually benefit from any sort of managed cooling (passive forced air cooling, in this case), which I'm assuming will cause the pack's management system to trip the thermal protection when you keep charging and discharging the pack at high speed multiple times with little to no time to allow the pack to cool down properly. As you said in the video, Nikki, a 300+ miles nonstop trip is not common (I'm assuming you're starting with a full, cool, battery, and the issue usually only kicks in on the 3rd QC session in a row, not the second), so most people shouldn't experience this problem. In any case, if the cases reported so far are not just flukes (Nissan is apparently in contact with two people who reported the issue), I'm guessing Nissan will either tweak the thermal management software to allow at least one more QC session before tripping the safety (and deal with the increased battery return rate), or (assuming the bigger batteries will have active thermal management) have 60kW battery cases retrofitted with 40kW cells and replace the packs under warranty. Which is something that's not new. The 1st-gen Leafs needed to have their original batteries replaced in a similar fashion, right? That being said, as someone who is awaiting delivery of a new Leaf in Portugal (ordered in November, tentative delivery scheduled for sometime next month, hopefully), if I ever encounter this kind of problem during hotter weather (500+Km in one sitting is NOT a trip I could even manage with two people driving, let alone wanting to actually do it) you can bet my car is getting towed directly to my Nissan dealership at their expense, and compensation is the next order of business, since not being able to properly deal with thermal management on your battery pack is clearly a design/engineering fault.

[@tanbrolo]

Two days in since I bought my 2018 Leaf SV. Rapidgate is definitely an inconvenience. I did a very hilly 300km trip today, first DC charge was quick (60+ kWh). The battery discharged rapidly from steep highway hills. I DC charged two hours of driving later and it maxed at 16 kWh. I gave up and tried again after a 2.5 hour rest and it maxed at 22 kWh. Very unfortunate that they chose not to use active thermal management.

[@hellojamesl]

I have a 2018 Leaf. I have had an issue with the battery getting hot. I noticed when I rapid charge, with less than 20% in the battery, it gets hot. The battery charges really fast from a low percentage to 75%, thus creating excess heat. On longer trips I rapid charge when it's close to 30%, and it seems to keep the temperature down longer.

[@railbiker100]

Yes, I've encountered this, but recharging on just a Level 2 charger, also. My dealer also "lectured" me that I should have known this from the owners' manuel. Unfortunately, this is after I'm "locked into" a 3-yesr lease with a car that loses more than twice it's range in cold weather and interstate speeds. Basically, I have a car I can only drive for short distances, except in the Spring and Summer, and never on the Interstate.

[@knifeyonline]

Nissan basically said they don't know why it's slowing down after 3+ rapid charging's in a row (in their extensive testing it didn't do that). They don't know it has anything to do with thermal management and they are investigating with the two cases where this has occurred, which generated all the "RapidGate" talk. It seems like it's been blown way out of proportion and there may be nothing to it at all. See latest fullycharged video, as Robert HAS heard from Nissan.

[@stevezodiac491]

Joseph Stott yes and father Christmas is real also.

[@richardpetek712]

Nissan is playing Hide and Seek :-(

[@m3inaz866]

I have enjoyed your reviews. I did drive a 2018 Leaf and I was impressed. I had never heard of “Rapidgate” or active thermal management, until recently. I did buy Tesla model 3, I was waiting over 2 years for. I know I don’t live in the ideal location for an electric car, Scottsdale Arizona. I have a garage on the West (hot) side of the house. If it is 115 degrees outside, I think it can be even hotter inside the garage, after an afternoon of heat build up. I have heard the Tesla turn on the active thermal management, while sitting in the garage. I’ve also noticed several miles of range disappear per day. I am considering buying a 2018 Leaf as a second car. Since it doesn’t have active thermal management, do you think a hot garage could jeopardize the battery??

[@xapplimatic]

I would highly recommend Installing a "whole house fan" in your garage's outside wall to keep it cooler for the well-being of all batteries stored in your garage and its cars. There are even solar ones you can get. That will keep your garage much cooler. I took a 12 V fan made for cars and semi truck interiors (6-8" size width of blades) and hooked it up to a solar panel I threw up on the roof and put a hole in the side of the garage wall just below the rafters height and that little fan alone cools our garage down 5-8º below what it would be without it. I can only imagine a much beefier whole house fan would really help keep our unfinished garage such cooler. Those unfinished open ceiling garages bake because there is no insulating later like a house has with its insulated attic floor and no system in place to move or exhaust the air being heated by the hot sun beating down directly on the thin singular layer of roofing materials separating the outside from the inside air in a garage.

[@bano363]

I'll still buy one.

[@TheFynboen]

Thanks for your update on Nissan Leaf 2018. I have cancelled my reservation.

[@ivanilia]

Hi nikki I 'm personally not worried with the rapidgate in my situation. We use the car 90% within a range of 50 km. Too bad we can't get it to travel on holidays though... For longevity of the battery pack I think it's a bad decision not to include thermal management in the 40kw leaf. I'll probably trade the leaf in 5 years with tesla 3.

[@smeegjam]

I love my new 2018 Leaf BUT the battery issue is a big issue in my book. I took the car on a 215 mile, each way, journey 2 weekends ago when it was snowing intermittently and the outside temps ranged from 1 degree to -2 degrees. I had already heard about the rapid charging problem so took care not to drive too fast (kept to max 62mph on motorways) to help keep the battery as cool as possible. First charge was for 38 mins at an average rate of 43.58kw from 18% to 92% and the temperature went from approx 40% to 60% on the gauge. All good so far. 2nd charge was from 13% to 82% and averaged 34.5 Kw raising the battery temp to around 80% on the gauge. Starting to show signs of slowing. 3rd charge from 62% to 75% averaged 20.8 Kw with the battery starting and finishing at around 80% temperature. How long would a full charge have taken if I had needed it? I reckon between 1 1/2 and 2 hours.... Like a lot of drivers, I don't do this sort of journey every day, but I do make it between 4 and 6 times a year and a couple of longer journeys too. My biggest concern and I have reported this to @NissanEV_UK who are supposed to be getting back to me for more info, is that this was in sub-zero conditions too. WTF is this going to be like on the occasional hot days that we get? Will I even get a decent rate on the first rapid charge if the battery is already hot. Also, as I stated earlier, I was taking it pretty easy ( there were, as usual, many miles done at a steady 50mph through sections of roadworks on the last stage) how will the battery charging go if I actually want to drive the car the way I normally drive? Nissan need to offer a solution, saying that there are a couple of instances is tantamount to a cover-up. There are many more on the forums. I don't want to hear that this is what they experienced and expected as the norm during testing. This was never raised by the dealer when I said that the only reason I have gone electric now is that the new Leaf can finally replace an ICE car fully. Nor will I accept that the car should not be rapid charged more than once or twice in succession. If this is their answer then I will be rejecting the car within the 30 days from purchase as "unfit for purpose", despite the fact that I love driving it.

[@mrlover4310]

What's wrong having a very small generator runs on diesel or solar panels like a thin sheet tapped to the roof to charge when driving or parked

[@TheThreeOfLife91]

Uhm, interesting, I'm a 2022 Nissan Leaf owner, and I encounter this warning on a 300 km trip after my 3rd or 4th charging on the highway. I'm wondering if the increase in charge time is really effective in protecting the battery and so If I wanted to do a 3000Km drive, I can disregard the warning and let the car manage the charging speed to protect the battery.

[@lesliegweir]

In Canada right now there aren't a lot of alternatives to the Leaf. Chevy for example doesn't even show the Bolt on their Canadian website right now, probably because there is too much inventory in the U.S.

[@chriswesley594]

I like your videos - packed with quality information, interesting insights and packaged well. The one comment I have, which is meant kindly - is about your body language - which to my eye looks oddly choreographed. I hope that feedback is helpful for you.

[@carolyncopeland2722]

I do wonder if this was a Nissan decision or part of some agreement with their about to be old battery supplier? Did Nissan decide the packs and the way they are cooled or is that done by the battery supplier?

[@thinfourth]

I live in Scotland What is this high temperatures that you speak of?

[@richardpetek712]

Do you get above 25° in the summer? Then you could have problems on a 2- charge trip with a Leaf too.

[@thinfourth]

Kelvin or celcius?

[@richardpetek712]

+thinfourth I got the joke, but it is of course +25° Celsius :) You use Kelvin? I thought you were talking about Europe, Scotland, not Europa, Jupiter moon :) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europa_(moon) But seriously, we may agree, Scotland has a very moderate climate where even the new Leaf shouldn't have a problem - unless you drive more than 300 km in a single road trip in the summer. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland#Climate If you go beyond, you will bump in the thermal battery charging limit.

[@thorsteinssonh]

Aren't the IONIQ and Nissan battery packs both air conditioned. I wonder what Hyundai is doing differently to Nissan -- perhaps they are simply not as worried about numerous rapid charges in succession. Anyone know if there is really a difference between the two battery implementations?

[@bobbiecurran3380]

Receiving my 2018 leaf on Thursday. Not worried about the issue as I've never done a trip that long. Or plan to. Perhaps to see my Aunt 296 miles away. That would be 2 rapid charges max

[@richardpetek712]

You have your car by now. In winter, with a really cold battery (10°C or less), 286 miles shouldn't be a problem, if you stay there to sleep over. Still expect a 2x slower rapid charge on the way back. You have a temperature gauge. The notches are (cold), 16°C, 26°C (center), 36°C, 41°C, 46°C, 51°C (first red line). As long as your reach the rapid charger at the center line, you are good. Leaf won't tell you precisely, because below 30°C is great, above 30°C it already starts the charge a bit slower, but you will be fine. But unfortunately after the first rapid charge you will be at the red line (51°C) or (maybe) just a notch below it. What you can do? Well, don't drive the Leaf above 60 mph (as this is the speed it was designed for, a commuter car), try not to discharge below 20% (since it builds up heat even faster) and don't charge on fast chargers over 90% (it's a waste of time). Expect the first rapid charge to take 60 minutes (instead of 45) and the second rapid charge, well ... it won't be rapid. It will take 2 hours, give or take a few minutes. 300 miles at 60 mph is 5 hours (probably a bit more) + 3 hours of charging ... We are talking about a trip that will in summer ideally take 8 hours, in reality probably closer to 9 hours. Good luck!

[@ScottishNSRailFan]

Watched earlier today, the race to Aberdeen docks and thought the race was a good representative of the various EVs

[@hkmp5kpdw]

This is basically a city car. You want to travel long distances? Buy the enhanced version in a year or a Bolt/Model 3.

[@richardpetek712]

It's all about telling that it is a city / mid-range commuter car and not hide it somewhere in the owners manual.

[@samyweee2097]

2018 Leaf is my 2nd Leaf (Upgraded from a 30kWh leaf), and now unable to do long distance trips anymore being unable to charge effectively. It also cost more to charge, as some charging stations charge per minute. Even on the first charge, charge rate start dropping from 40kW from at around 65% charge. If you take a Li-Ion battery charging slow down is recommended after 80%-90% range, don't know why Nissan reduce the charge rate at around 65% even while the battery is relatively cold. Eitherway, this is bad, hope Nissan will come up with a fix for first adopters like us.

[@richardpetek712]

+Samy Wee, this is called "tapering", meaning slowing down the charge due to internal resistance. It depends on the battery chemistry, Teslas start this already at 30-40% SOC, kzbin.info/www/bejne/iH_HZ3mpiahpm6M Hyundai Ioniq starts to do it at 80% - just two extremes. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rZOWmH1um7yKa8k For the Nissan Leaf 2018, Bjorn Nyland did yesterday an extensive test (18 hours, 1000 km) and figured out that it is the best to drive between about 10% and 65% SOC (which you already know) on a long-range trip. I hope it helps. I don't think that Nissan can fix any of these things.They are a part of the battery which is built in. Maybe they can change a few percent with a software update, but that's about it.

[@iandavidson9132]

As a low mileage user the rapid gate saga does not concern me for the duration of my ownership , but will it effect the resale prices when we trade in ...

[@LemonTeaLeaf]

Great work Nikki and the team for this balance and unbias report. love from the UK

[@320ifq]

I think the current nv200 electric variant is based on the 2018 leaf drive train. This has forced cooling when charging so does this suffer similar problems, if not then forced cooling would seem to solve the issue.

[@francisscarborough-smith8113]

I noticed it for the first time a few days ago. My longest day so far at 300 miles had me use two shorter stops on my first leg, a long stop at the start of my return leg and then a final quick pit stop. In total I added around 55kw but the final charge was entirely at a reduced speed. Not ideal as total rapid charging time probably did hit around 2 hours for what would have been around 4.5 hours driving. In practice I'll look to do 3 stops rather than 4 and run a little closer to the line beforehand.

[@CR-di1lg]

I am still more worried about the lack of telescoping steering wheel :-)

[@aalberto4961]

I was so disappointed last September when nissan unveiled their next generation leaf with no active thermal management. I’ve owned many nissan cars and still own my Infiniti QX80 and Infiniti Q50S red sport. So I ended up buying (cash) a chevrolet bolt premier as a 3rd car. It’s unbelievable how good this little car is GM built, very happy with my purchase!

[@foxylady1048]

I have had a problem with charging my 40 KWH leaf. Even though i have only gone a few miles, (to the park,). And then to a rapid charger, it drops out from 45 then 30 then 25 within 5 minutes. Not what I need on a long journey.

[@dansizemore6319]

No one at the dealership warned me of this problem--I would not have purchased! I had not had a problem until today when I stopped to "top off" at an EVgo quick charge. I had 23% battery--and after 30 minutes charging--all that EVgo allows in one session--I expected to be at around 80% but only got to 60% I received 11.1 KWh. I thought something was wrong with the charger--I needed to travel to an area without a charger, so upon my return I avoided the "slow" charging station and went to another--I only had 4% left when I got there. After 30 minutes I only received 5 kWh--charging up to only 14%--not enough to get home. I had to limp to a slow station and charge enough to get home. This is not what I signed up for.

[@renebergqvist599]

It is a known fact since early 2000's that temperature and high battery voltage kills li-ion batteries. It is the main culprit in Li-ion battery wear. All mobile phones reduces charging current over a certain temperature (usually ~45°C) and stops charging completely at ~60°C. In addition improving the coefficient of drag has been improved for the G2 by improving the airflow under the car. This unfortunately also decrease the vortices that would help the 'cooling' of the battery pack during motion of the car. The more energy you cramp into the pack - the more heat is to be dissipated from the same volume through the same surface area. It is quite evident that the 24 kWh virtually never decreases charging speed, 30 kWh decreases after ~4-5 DC charges and now 40 kWh after 2-3 charges - anyone sees a pattern.. the packs shares the same space under the car. Seems like the Nissan CFO and marketing department won the internal 'discussion' and sacrificed their well-deserved strategical strong position for short term profits. What's even worse - the e-NV200 has active cooling so they had it availlable. The good thing is, that passive cooling will not be an option for 60 kWh - it would overheat after the first DC charge and potentially just from heavy foot driving. I actually had an appointment to negotiate for a 2.Zero - I cancelled it as the first 'news' from Japan indicated charging speed issues... That and only 40 kWh is a bad combo. I bought a Niro PHEV instead (but we still have our 24 kWh - which we love).

[@ElectricSwede]

Newer 40kwh Leafs have some changed software and rapidgate isn't as bad! I just tested it myself (Got a video) and the limit at 43c that before was at 24kw is now at 38kw!

[@clintthomas1854]

What does all that mean for potential Australian buyers, it gets really hot, melting tar hot. I’m still keen to get a Leaf 2.0 but waiting for the 60Kw/h battery at a higher cost is the only option????

[@robertn2550]

Clint Thomas Clint i am guessing but I cannot see the 40kw leaf making it to Australia. Nissan Australia would see the issues and opt for a vehicle that is capable of existing in this wide brown land.

[@stevezodiac491]

Clint Thomas yes looks like Nissan tampered with balls as well mate, get an EV with abms on it lol

[@kdevrees]

Did Apple make these batteries? :)

[@xapplimatic]

What does that have to with the price of Nectarines in Laos? Keep your cell phone prejudices out of a car debate please.

[@fatboy19831]

Does anyone know if the Spark EV had active battery management?

[@kennethbokor1]

For 90+% of my driving needs. I fall well within a daily 200KM range need. My daily average is 60KM. For longer trips, I don't see myself using more than 1 or 2 rapid charges in a row, so not concerned about this charging slow-down measure. Yes, I think Nissan could tweak the software to extend the number of successive rapid charging to 4 then throttle back, but I'm no scientist or engineer either. 4 successive rapid charges would be 500-600 mile (800+ kms) in a leg and for me, a trip like that would certainly warrant an overnight rest somewhere for me and for the battery to cool down. Let's see what Nissan will respond with and if they will implement a tweak or "fix" for this. Even if they do not, I'm not cancelling my order for a new Leaf which I anticipate getting delivery of by June.

[@richardpetek712]

The Nissan Leaf 2 2018 40 kWh is a nice car, but without active TMS all heat loss is a matter of mother nature. In the summer, if you start with a battery at about 20°C, your first fast charge could be fine (@38-44 kW). The second will be restricted to about 22-25 kW or even less. If you start with 30°C, already the first will be restricted. This is the conclusion from the 18 hour 1000 km test that Bjorn Nyland made yesterday in Norway. He made every effort to cool the battery down, even by driving kind-of slow of 80 km/h, during the night at -10°C. In summer the second and third fast charging will come down to a crawl, no matter what, and at certain circumstances even the first. Nissan cannot tweak or fix it without jeopardising the lifetime of the battery. They took the lesson from this report: pushevs.com/2018/03/20/nissan-leaf-battery-degradation-data-24-vs-30-kwh-batteries/ Without active cooling Nissan had little choice with its Leaf 2018 40 kWh model. It could "protect the battery" (or cover its rear, however you like it) or face many warranty claims in a few years. They decided for the first. Call it bad engineering, going for the lowest possible price or planned obsolesce - the choice is yours. I didn't want to spoil your soup, but maybe you can still change your order to Hyundai Ioniq. It has a slightly smaller range, but is in contrast more efficient and doesn't overheat. And has much less battery degradation.

[@shoelessjoe428]

Thanks for this. There's plenty of other videos on KZbin on this, but this one is the first I'd seen that explains the details of the problem properly. Have to say I'm a bit gutted about this. It's put me off the Leaf a bit. If I was high up in Nissan I would hold all sales and immediately make moves to upgrade the 40kw line to include proper liquid cooling. It's bad PR.

[@sylvainmichaud2262]

Considering that 95% of car trip in USA are less then 30 miles this will become an issue for a very specific type of customer and is a non issue for all the others. Nissan made a good decision for the vast majority of it's customers. Yes they could have put a thermal management system with a higher price tag. If we were to analyse/criticize combustion engine car the way we do with electric cars many of these would not be worth being produced.

[@stevezodiac491]

Sylvain Michaud it is not a non issue when you try to sell it lol.

[@Flipflop324]

I am a bit lost with this, Nissan protect their batteries by limiting charging speeds after 2 or 3 rapid charges = sky is falling controversy. GM limits Bolt rapid charging speeds 100% of the time = no problem. I am not sure when I should be upset or not. Can someone help me out here.

[@richardpetek712]

Bolt has no charging speed limits. Except Tesla, it is one of the best EVs, capable of making long-range trips almost like a Tesla model 3 with the 50 kWh battery. Nissan Leaf, on the other hand, is a limited short-range commuter car. With an active (liquid) cooling, it could come close to Bolt (or Hyundai Ioniq or Kona).

[@KieranMullen]

Full Charged Channel just did a post on this morning. missed it by that much!

[@bnkwupt]

Kieran Mullen yes, but with all due respect to Robert, this was a much more thorough and balanced news report.

[@stevezodiac491]

VeeDubTDI yes anything that demises llewelyn's neo liberal views is an anathema to him and Satan's work.

[@foolcellsorryfuelcellmirag4835]

As the Monty Python's would say" Always look on the bright side of life".

[@jur4x]

That battery needs some... "Liquid metal" application. And, perhaps, hardline custom loop watercooling :)

[@LostInIce4]

Having owned all versions of the Leaf, I find this to be a non issue for me. I will never drive more than 600 kilometers in a day. Good planning, leave home with 100% SOC. Drive 250+ kilometers and charge. Drive another 250+ kilometers and hit the sack. But, Nissan can improve the charge rate of the 40kWh by reprogramming the BMS. The charge rate drops too quickly with regards to actual battery temperature.

[@henryli7577]

That's the reason I considered the Bolt EV over the Leaf

[@mattroguesmith]

We have the new 2018 leaf - the Leaf Zero to be exact - no issue for us as we do no long distance driving. Charged on a home 6.5kwh Zappi charger from solar / Tesla Powerwall 2. I am of course disappointed with Nissan’s decision to not include active thermal management. More annoying is that this is likely to effect the resale value of the car when we come to replace it. THAT is what annoys me the most!

[@Demo-yv4dp]

I am in the process of ordering a leaf. The dealer didn’t mention anything about the quick charge issue which is understandable on his side.... I will be driving this EV for work. This whole “rapid gate” worries me a lot. They omitted an essential part. Sure, Japan is an island and longer trips are very unlikely there. Though, if I am completely honest, I will rarely cover more than 300 km a day. Unless I am on a vacation, I’ll drive 1000km in one haul. That is not possible anymore,it will take two days off my vacation time. That is not nice. For that once a year trip, I’ll be happy if the dealer offers me a conventional car free of charge as a bandaid..... Perhaps the new leaf was released too quickly to buy time for the 60kwh version?

[@chubscub]

She makes out like this is affecting loads of 2018 Leafs, it is not. Only a very few have had the problem and only from repeat rapid charges on very long journeys

[@billnewkirk6875]

Not only have I had the problem, the car virtually stranded us in Ellensburg, WA as we were trying to go home to Centralia WA (across the Cascades) in the summer. I purchased the car to be able to make trips like this or even longer and it was very disappointing. Everything else about the car is great, but this was unacceptable. I am currently waiting an arbitration hearing with BBB Auto.

[@josephnavarro2322]

The driver of leaf should listen to the car, slow down, keep temp down. Would have done better charging. It's not a race car at all.

[@tommyestridge9301]

Well, Nissan may have stepped over a pound to pick up a penny here. Yes, they may be able to produce the car cheaper, but they will suffer a lot of bad press and lose a lot of sales.

[@G11713]

Considering that batteries are the most or one of the most expensive components of these vehicles, to not a have sure fire way of protecting is tantamount to negligence on Nissan's part. Bye bye resale value?

[@Cyberwolfman]

When I first heard of the lack of thermal management on the 40kWh Leaf the first thing I thought of was: "I'll be able to get a used one cheap to replace my used 2012 Leaf."

[@richardpetek712]

Actually the resale value shouldn't be so bad if the car won't be baked on the sun during the summers, but Nissan shot himself in the foot by not making it long-range (single family car) capable. They are making baby steps instead of making it right from the start, like Hyundai did it with the Ioniq.

[@G11713]

Richard Petek Range too indeed but in a climate with four seasons I expect winter will also be hard on the batteries at startup. Perhaps they have some innovative compensating tech that is unfortunately failing to address rapid charging.

[@richardpetek712]

Actually, winter itself doesn't pose a problem since Nissan has built in active heating. Why? Because it is much simpler, you can make resistive heating in essence for just a few bucks, but nobody denies that cooling is a lot more complicated. But it is worth the money spent.

[@Clampett01]

I really, really do want the new Nissan Leaf, but now it has got to be the 2019 model. Do I cancel my order, drive my ICE car and save the extra cash over the next 12 months? Or do I try and get a used electric Ioniq which as we have seen, has come out of this debacle smelling of roses!

[@joshuanduwayo7765]

Running through the 6ix with my woes

[@NameNaameNameeNaamee]

Hmmm...Nissan already addressed this according to another channel and confirmed what the more sensible bloggers in the scene were suspecting - this is not normal behaviour and they are investigating what caused this. My theorie: in those three instances the heater (utilizing a heat pump) was switched off which not only makes zero sense since Nissan put it in there to make sure you can use it WITHOUT sacrificing range (it will set you back as little as 3 miles over a full charge as far as I know), but it might also irritate you BMS since the heat pump is not working and therefor is not pulling any heat from the battery. It might very well be, that this was what caused the computer in the car to restrict the rapid charge processes after a while. It is safe to assume, that they programmed the software paramters assuming that the drivers would use the heater during temperatures around or below zero degrees. This would mean, that they could easily fix this with a FW update. This of course leaves us wondering how the battery will perform during summer time, but as far as we know the leaf didn't have any problems during the testing in the summer. Which makes me even more confident, that this is merely a software issue.

[@richardpetek712]

+Name[whatever], no. Leaf 2018 simply doesn't have thermal management system and this is known for at least 6 months. They are just making fools of themselves by "investigating" it. The thermal battery protection software in the BMS kicked in, that's all. Bjorn Nyland did a long range (1000 km) test yesterday in Norway, with LeafSpy, and confirmed this issue - and Nissan knows it, they followed his test.

[@NameNaameNameeNaamee]

@ Rich[whatever]. If anyone is making a fool out of himself it's the guy that jumps to conclusions while the sensible thing would be to wait and see if this actually is a hardware issue (and if yes, if it's an isolated thing or a mass occurance) or just a software bug. But that wouldn't make you feel as important, wouldn't it?

[@gojo2836]

I love your show! It’s great ! Please have a look on the E-go, an full electric car from Germany for 11.000.-€!

[@by9917]

I only DCFCed my 1st gen Leaf 3 times in 3 and a half years. I live in a hot climate and saw no loss of battery capacity in that time. I now have a 2nd gen Leaf and have yet to DCFC it. With the 151 mile range it is unlikely ever will. There are few public charging station in my area (epicenter of oil country) and there is no way to make long distance trips in any EV but a Tesla. In some directions it could be 500 miles or more before the next non-Tesla DCFCer. Now, even on my longest trip I still have 80mi of range remaining on the charge I departed with. If there were a true DCFC network for the Leaf I would be unhappy, but as it is, there is zero impact to me.

[@jeremywasinger6732]

Check out Bjorn test he completed today. 1000 km... issues after 300 km

[@rahhal83]

Love this car And this note is not big issue

[@sanman267]

Where i live we dont have any fast chargers so none of that to report

[@TeslaWorld]

But another reason I am happy to have my Model 3. I really am sad because I was hoping Tesla would bring out the best of these long standing companies with years in the auto industry and a lot of R&D money to potentially grow the EV world even faster. However, I am glad it is out in the public eye, anything to make the EV world learn and grow should help us all in the long run.

[@EVtestDK]

Cooler place does not make any change. It heats up also when driving around freezing as well. If you drive 120 km/h it limited the fastcharge to 35kW the first time and that is also at temperatures around freezing :-(

[@percussiveone]

Honestly reading these comments and seeing the blogosphere frenzy over this topic seems like a bit of an overreaction, considering less than 5% of owners would be driving to drive this car 500 miles in a day on the regular. Not saying Nissan is excused from fixing it, but come on... it's new tech. There are going to be issues.

[@desparky]

Not a real issue in Melbourne Australia (in fact the entire state of Victoria, which I think is bigger than the entire UK?) where there's only 3 DC rapid chargers anyway, and all within 37km of each other! The next DC fast charger is 650km away in Canberra. They stopped selling the leaf here in 2014, and even then it was still the 20kwh 2012 model. Unless you buy a Tesla (which start at AU$120,000 or US$93,000) you're very limited in doing long distance driving. People wonder why there's a poor uptake of electric vehicles in Aus!!!

[@somewhat7]

this whole thing is a tempest in a teapot. everyone up in arms over something that will MAYBE affect a few owners out of the majority, and not all that often at that

[@richardpetek712]

It depends whether this is your second or your only car.

[@somewhat7]

Richard Petek i would suggest that it depends whether or not you drive long highway distances on the regular. Number of cars won't matter to someone who doesn't. Also, this problem won't leave you stranded, it will be a pain and take a lot longer to go far, fast.

[@richardpetek712]

That's absolutely true. But in the summer, when every top-up past 250 km will take 1 hour for next 100 km, it will become very annoying if you want to make a 500 or 600 km trip. You do the math how long it will take while charging. I get to 3 or 4 hours. I have more pleasant things to do instead of watching chargers doing their job slowly - and expensive. And I do such trips a few times a year.

[@somewhat7]

Richard Petek so rent a car when you go on that trip. Problem solved. No owning a second car either. You speak from your perspective, which i can respect, but as i stated in my original comment, this "problem" isn't all that much of a thing for most owners. And doesn't seem to bother most Leaf owners of the past and present either.

[@michaelrees3216]

Richard Petek YOU do such journeys regularly. I DON'T and suggest not many others do either. That makes the quick charging fuss academic.

[@sigor2011]

Interesting non-issue. This 40kw model has way too short of range to long distance travel in USA/Canada. Around here it is often possible not to see a quick charger for 200 km around. Our extended family have 2014 and 2018 leafs. They are charged at 120v 98% over the time and 2 percent are 240/30 amps... seems to be just fine for the city commuters.

[@SNORKYMEDIA]

News Flash - not everyone lives in the US

[@AllanSustainabilityFan]

Not a good place to cut corners, keeping the battery healthy and long lasting is important, not a place to save money imho.

[@michaelrees3216]

Surely that is a good place to save money, extending battery life?

[@sherizaahd]

This won't be a problem for me probably, because the infrastructure in my state doesn't support long enough trips to cause me to quick charge that much. Unless i'm on a long day of driving around town I guess. We shall see though.

[@MikeBoldis]

Nissan was in a hurry thinking that the actual battery will work. Waiting for LG batteries take longer, and their production supposed to be ready for 2018 not 2019. However for 2019 it seems we may have the whole wanted package: TMS, LG battery, longer range ( 60kw)