Perfect Lifepo4 Connections the Easy and Fast Way

I kept trying and finally found the quickest method to get the best connections when assembling our Lifepo4 batteries. The resistance is very low now and the trouble to get there is just a bit more than doing nothing. I hope this helps you on your build. The previous videos show how to make the little tools. The two sided tape I used in this video can be replaced with whatever two sided product you have handy as long as it holds up. Try it and see. Let me know in the comments if you use this method and how it works for you. If you have another method you use, let me know what kind of test results you are getting. Let's giturdun.
Also comment and let me know if the new microphone helps the audio quality. Sorry it took so long to get one.

[@randywolf8487]

The folks viewing your videos probably don't know the total value of the information you share. I work for a company that makes electrical/mechanical shunt devices to cover failing connectors of the transmission and distribution circuits of utilities. In our investigation we have found that approximately 76% of connector failures, that are not caused by external forces, are caused by improper installation and the majority of those stem from oxidation/corrosion initiated by lack of conductor preparation and missing inhibitor. Not only will your method improve present performance it will add to the life cycle of the connection. Two things we have found beneficial that you might want to investigate, 1) after cleaning the terminal, apply the inhibitor with a stainless wire brush as the scratching action will break up the oxide, which forms on aluminum within milliseconds of air exposure and the inhibitor on the brush will keep the air from reaching the prepared surface, and, 2) using a Belleville washer (disc spring washer) under the fastener/nut as any heat generated will be compensated and when cooled to connection returns to original tension (just be sure to use a Belleville of less force than the yield tensile of the bolt/stud)

[@Dutch_off_grid_homesteading]

Heya, the lower the resistance the lower losses you will have great job well done

[@JonCFox333]

MG847 is 23 ohm-cm resistivity. Conducto-lube is .000039 ohms resistance. I have not yet found out its resistivity but similar silver-based conductive grease from Chemtronics (CW7100-ND) is .01 ohm-cm. The Conducto-lube is much more reasonably priced, at 2 oz for $119. By my calculations from their cool-amp website, 2 oz should be enough for about 96 battery terminals (or 48 batteries). Silver is much more conductive than carbon, so this makes sense. I hope you can get a little and try it out! I'd really like to know how it compares to your MG847, Maybe all that matters is removing the Al oxide and then coating the terminal with something the prevents it from re-oxidizing. Or maybe the resistance of the coating matters. Only testing will tell for sure.

[@jeremyallard5449]

A fabulous video Ray sets new limits

[@sl0rion]

It sure is a great feeling when you find a good workflow that works. Thanks for sharing the journey!

[@RayBuildsCoolStuff]

I appreciate your comment. It's so true. Working with your hands and using your brain to improve the process is a really special thing. It is good for the soul. It may not make us wealthy but it sure makes us rich if you know what I mean.

[@SnowyOwlPrepper]

Thanks again. Making a comment every chance for the algorithm.

[@RayBuildsCoolStuff]

You're the best!

[@rickbattle5706]

Excellent inventions! You are your own factory. :-)

[@lennieadi]

Thanks for the teachings Ray. 👊🏾

[@gregoryfierens001]

I wish you had posted this video some months ago, then I wouldn't have suffered so much in my own project ... Oh and just in case you come a similarly easy solution for a stripped stud (I did at less than 5Nm) I would be so gratefull. It's not completely stripped so I want to avoid having to drill and rethread the hole ... especially because I don't want to reduce the contact surface ...

[@jmaus2k]

Great job. You have helped many with this same situation.

[@RayBuildsCoolStuff]

I appreciate that!

[@Woodyjims-shack]

Great info man👌

[@mm-wh4jx]

great improvement

[@jamesbsa6450]

@Ray Builds Cool Stuff, I meant to comment after this first posted. The thought crossed my mind that you could make a 2"x4" jig that spanned and rested on top of your battery box (~20" long?), which has a hole the diameter of dowel with a little grease in it and that would keep your sanding dowel 90degrees consistently. You could add a dado on the ends the exact width of the box to help it align and nicely slide along to the next battery. I love your creativity and find my mind works similarly at troubleshooting at tackling problems. You do amazing work, and have far more thoughtful designs than I.

[@BajanAlan]

Hi Ray checked busbaars of receintly received batteries and discovered they were brass. Thanks.

[@RayBuildsCoolStuff]

I think it happens all the time and people don't know. Then they don't know why their cells act like garbage. Perhaps only part of the reason is because they are garbage and the rest of the reason is because they got ripped off on the bus bars too. I got mine replaced double by the rip off supplier but it took a lot of effort. I'll go over the whole experience and run the numbers on whether the savings on the cells were a real savings or not.

[@MrBlueDevil93]

Ray you are super impressive. Have watched repetitively. Awesome attention to detail. I used to build/retrofit aircraft. My recommendation would have been a burnishing brush for a drill bit. Various shank sizes. Available online. We use them to burnish aluminum before we put Alodine on the burnished area. Also I would recommend Daniels crimping tools. Gold standard in aircraft electrical. Again. Super job Ray. Masterful teaching. Question: Where did you learn about BMS systems to make you decision on Semplos?

[@eelbatteryofficial]

I like your video very much, it is very objective, very detailed. I have A lot of a-grade 280AH cells in my warehouse in California. I can send samples to you. I wonder if you can test them first and recommend them to your fans and friends .

[@pilgrimvalle]

I will be interested in seeing the batteries paralleled in the future to bus bars etc. I have three 24volt batteries assembled and cycling(two are 2P8S and one is 4P8S). I will be doing the 4th 24-volt build in a 4P8S configuration soon. great videos for all to glean from.... I am also doing mine specifically to be an off-grid build. dependable energy off the grid. thanks, Michael from South Dakota

[@RayBuildsCoolStuff]

I am using a battery combiner box to parallel my batteries. Have you seen that video yet?

[@pilgrimvalle]

@@RayBuildsCoolStuff I will search for your video of the battery combiner box. hope to see more in the future as you assemble and the actual hook-up in your solar off-grid building progresses, thanks, keep up the great work. 😎

[@RayBuildsCoolStuff]

@@pilgrimvalle I have completed the solar shed and I’m spraying a fire retardant coating right now. Next step is to start mounting the equipment!!! Oh and conduit, ugh.😂

[@s.hutton2100]

Hi RAY necessity is the mother of invention. Love your new invention. What a time saver. Thank you. The carbon paste you use any chance of putting a link to it as there seems to be different types. I have one they call electrical glue no sure if I should use it. Cheers Stephen. A

[@RayBuildsCoolStuff]

MG847 It's on the thumbnail of the video about making good connections.

[@duanehulse2037]

I like the low ohms reading, i geuss what i need i my head is to see that same reading 1500 cycles from now

[@RayBuildsCoolStuff]

In the comments, a few people that did this stuff for a living in industrial settings said that this approach is most important for connections that last a long time and don't fail from cycling.

[@BajanAlan]

Latest cells have smaller seats for lugs or busbars. This creares higher pressure between seat and busbar!

[@pelecho]

I think your add is going to the next level 🤣

[@RayBuildsCoolStuff]

On the spectrum so you don't have to be. lol

[@michaelbouckley4455]

Looks like, as well as being brass bus bus bars supplied, they are also the wrong type of bus bar for those awful studs, with 10mm diameter seat. The area of the actual battery terminal is larger. I was supplied with copper bus bars, having a 10mm wide slot, to fit over the studs. When you get your copper bus bars, you could try to see if enlarging the slot makes a better connection. It will probably be harder to try to polish the visible part of the battery terminal proper. I used a large outside diameter washer on top, with split washers, and standard nut. Some bus bars (and lugs) are exactly the same height as the stud base, so give an even greater contact area.

[@RayBuildsCoolStuff]

The bus bars shown in the video are the new copper bus bars and are working very well as evidenced by the very low resistance shown in the testing.

[@dougbaskins9380]

For almost a year I have had terrible problems with "runners" -- I.E. high resistance at the terminals of a 272Ah lifepo4 cell. Your video has been very instructive. My question is: How much does the "carbon grease" help reduce the resistance? I assume that your battery terminals are steel and flat - not crowned or convex. Mine are flat AL terminals with a SS "grub" bolts screwed in. The SS bolts have a very high resistance to the point they could be considered an insulator (40X of CU).

[@RayBuildsCoolStuff]

My terminals are aluminum with a stainless stud. The assembly paste prevents ongoing oxidation of the aluminum. I have measured quite a bit of improvement with the paste but only with poor joint surfaces. I see little to no improvement in resistance when preparing the connection as shown in this video.

[@dougbaskins9380]

Your video looks like the terminal studs were laser welded on. But your comment said they were SS studs into AL threads.

[@RayBuildsCoolStuff]

Where did I say that the stainless studs were into AL threads? I would need to correct that if I said it. These are welded terminals which are stainless studs molded into aluminum discs that are laser welded to the cell terminal. I can't find where I might have said otherwise but if I did that would be a mistaken comment.

[@houseofancients]

evolution :-)

[@todamnbad]

I keep seeing all of your wire piled up and dreaming I had some, if you have any left over after your batteries are all built maybe you can do a wire giveaway, if you do this please sign me up

[@RayBuildsCoolStuff]

I'm afraid it won't be enough. I have 16 batteries and 6 inverters to connect up in two projects. I bought it early because I expected the price to go up. Unfortunately it did go up but I think I have close to the right amount on hand. This stuff is so expensive!!!

[@offgridwanabe]

Those readings are less than the manufacturers specs or 0.32 mohms for the cell.

[@MatthiasUrlichs]

He's not measuring the cell. So your point is?

[@omgmo82]

What torque wrench are you using?

[@RayBuildsCoolStuff]

I have a few. The small one in this video is relabeled by Nashbar which sells parts and tools for bicycles. I've had it for 10 years. I have another that is more precise that I use for engineering and scuba from CDL. It generally is in agreement with the one from nashbar. I have automotive targeted ones that I've had for about 40 years or more.

[@edc1569]

What are the gas tanks for?

[@RayBuildsCoolStuff]

Filling my scuba tanks.

[@jws3925]

Why did you abandon the alcohol? Did it leave a residue?

[@RayBuildsCoolStuff]

It didn’t make a difference. Blowing the aluminum dust off was good enough in my opinion because after blowing it off the alcohol didn’t seem to get any more residual. Blowing is faster and less tedious and I try to develop a method that’s good AND quick. Anyway that’s where I landed on the issue. If you want to use alcohol I think it will do a good job.

[@jasonbroom7147]

Just out of curiosity, because I truly do not know: How many more amps can you push if you reduce the resistance by .10 milliohms? How many more charge cycles will you get from the battery as a result of that reduction in resistance? How much will you reduce the temperature of the bus bars, when pushing a certain amount of amps through them, by reducing resistance by .10 milliohms? You keep gnawing on this bone and you say, "If it's higher than that, why is it higher than that?" I guess the question in my mind is, what amount of resistance is too high and what improvement in the function of the battery is realized by reducing the resistance? Can that even by measured by such small improvements, or is this a radical improvement that will greatly improve your battery function over their lifetime? I honestly don't know. Maybe an electrical engineer will explain why it matters, or might not matter very much at all?

[@RayBuildsCoolStuff]

Crooked bus bars, brass bus bars, cables that are too small, insufficient contact area, aluminum oxide, residue on the bus bars, improper torque on the studs.... All of these are indicated by slightly higher resistance in the measurement I take. All should be eliminated and my goal was to find the way to do it without going to heroic measures. You can read on the forum and watch videos where people chase after problems that they think exist without any testing or even anecdotal evidence that it's a problem. What I was seeking and think I have found is a way to eliminate all these issues with the least trouble, time and cost. There are lots of people that just hook them up and others that buy 6$ bus bars. I'm after the goldilocks solution. Not too crazy, not too ambivalent, just address what matters quick and easy and move along. It just took a little effort to find what I'm comfortable with. Building 16 big batteries makes the ROI easier to justify. Sharing it with others multiplies the reward. Thinking about how many watt hours might be saved misses the point of the exercise. As in other precision and accuracy endeavors that I take part in, "aim small, miss small". Some day on this channel we will gnaw on the bone of how airtight a building should be. That's going to be a lot of fun. lol

[@MrRobertPogson]

Of course, if lowest resistance is a goal, we should use massive busbars of silver... Of course, that's nonsense. One can use brass quite easily. Just make them 4x larger in cross-section and the electrical resistance is roughly equivalent. Brass would be roughly 4x the cost and weight but 8x stronger and more resistant to corrosion. The solution I would recommend, instead of a high current low voltage system, is a low current high voltage system. Connect all the cells in series. At 300-400V, 50A delivers 15-20KW, and a few milliohms here and there is of little consequence. If one considers the makers are using aluminium posts on their batteries, brass is marvelous. These solar batteries will be installed and managed electronically for decades. There's little need for optimization of everything if things are reasonably efficient and low in maintenance.

[@pilgrimvalle]

@@MrRobertPogson copper is a better conductor than silver as I understand it. the reason for nickel plating the copper busbar is to reduce the galvanic interaction (corrosion) between the aluminum connection and the copper as they do not play together well. brass is a poor conductor so when he replaced the brass busbar with copper busbar that helped him a lot.

[@ppi57]

don't blow off the dust (with spit)... use a vacuum ;)

[@pilgrimvalle]

I was thinking a small vacuum would be helpful here as well, but in reality, I also would have to go the extra effort to go and fetch the vacuum but I do agree that would be helpful to remove the dust.

[@prof.crastinator]

what is the paste?

[@RayBuildsCoolStuff]

MG 847

[@Andreas-vr3vs]

I dont get it. Its ~0.17 before and ~0.17 after. Whats the advantage?

[@Mazlem]

He showed a finished battery and then what he did to achieve those numbers

[@RayBuildsCoolStuff]

@@Mazlem Thank you and thanks for subscribing.

[@bobaloo2012]

You might want to research how long it takes aluminum oxide to reform after you've removed it. The answer is milliseconds.

[@RayBuildsCoolStuff]

OK, That is certainly true. It is a fun fact but not relevant. The amount that reforms in the time it is unprotected isn't in the ballpark with the amount I remove. This is proven by testing. It takes a pretty substantial effort to get down to the raw aluminum. This isn't reformed quickly. The first 4nm forms almost instantly. After that it is a very slow process. I've worked with oceans of aluminum with many different finishes, paints, urethanes, passivation, bead blasting and lots of versions of polishing. Polished aluminum takes a long time to visibly oxidize. It looks like chrome for weeks to months depending on what it is exposed to. Kept indoors it keeps its shine for a few years. Oxidation is certainly occurring but not a lot due to the nature of the oxide.

[@pilgrimvalle]

@@SherylinRM exactly... this is good information.... there are some alarmists who blow things way out of proportion and claim to know what they are talking about. if they would do their research and actually do a hands-on build vs being an air-chair reactor as some in the forums do... all would benefit... i guarantee you need to evaluate all information. i think "Ray build cool stuff" is on firm ground and is providing useful information for the real life crowd!!!!! 😎😎

[@j.badinter988]

Why do you insist on subcribing so much more than before?

[@RayBuildsCoolStuff]

I want to help as many people as possible. I have a lot of knowledge to share about high performance buildings and building science. This is critical to reducing loads so we can build off grid systems that are reasonably sized and achievable. In order to reach a broad audience, the channel needs to be seen by more people. One of the ways that youtube decides whose videos get presented to people is by subscriber counts. If I want to help more people, I need to have more subscribers. Because youtube is free to watch, I never subscribed to the channels I watched. It didn't seem necessary. I never realized how that simple act could help the people that create the videos I liked to watch. If I don't ask, fewer people subscribe. I've never been a self promoter but I kind of need the subscribers if I want to reach people. The other thing that seems to make a difference is when people watch the whole video or more of it but that just means I need to be better at what I present. I don't try to chase the algorithm because I've just got to be me. That's baked into the cake so best I can do is ask for people that watch and comment to also subscribe to help the penetration into the community. Thanks for asking. I hope people see the response.