Raymond Harrison - 'You Can't Eat a Calorie: The Energy Balance Model from a Physics Perspective'

[@stevenanthony578]

FYI, the first author (K.D. Hall) of the 2022 paper you show is a known shill for the food industry. He doesn't like the hormonal model of obesity because so much of his research money comes from the makers of processed (high-carb) foods. He has published studies with obvious design flaws to make the low-carb diet look like it's no better than a high-carb diet. He even did a study to test the hormonal obesity model and EXCLUDED anyone with symptoms of metabolic syndrome (the very people the hormonal model describes). This subject exclusion was buried in an appendix in one version of the paper (you know how researchers will get the same paper published in more than one journal by tweaking the focus of the write-up of the same study...). But other versions of the same study (same hospital ward, same number of subjects with the same average ages, weights, etc.) omit that exclusion. He's a very shady researcher.

[@serenitygoodwyn]

Thank you. It drives me mad. Them, 'you can't break the laws of thermodynamics', me, 'the human body isn't a closed system as defined by physics, so the law of thermodynamics doesn't apply'. If it works the way the non physicist try to throw around 'calories in v calories out' if you go up hill or into a warm room you'll put weight on and then lose it again when you go down the hill or out of the warm room. The human body simply doesn't work like that, it's far more complicated with a verity of chemical an biological processes, many of which we don't even understand or even know exist, that impact how the input of energy is processed or wasted. At best it's a rough estimate based on a approximation of a theory that doesn't really apply. Can it be helpful. Yes if you're a body builder who tracks their food and activity and a calorie intake religiously, and knows how your body responds to certain calorie intake of given nutrients, and your following a similar routine daily, then you will know your baseline and be able to successfully manipulate it. For the rest of us, not so useful.

[@mikemcc6625]

Always a richer experience when presented with the historical context. Thanks for teaching.

[@JD-rc6lq]

Great talk...sadly it would be best if folks just took the Gary Taubes route and said "Why are we talking about physics at all?" This is an organic chemistry problem.

[@os3986]

Justin Fung once said: you can eat 200 Calories of salmon or you can eat 200 Calories of wood. There will be a difference.

[@Ryan_DeWitt]

Well no $hit. That's not how it works or what CICO people are claiming. That is beyond a strawman argument.

[@JD-rc6lq]

His brother Jason said the same thing:)

[@CarnivoreGrace]

@@Ryan_DeWitt what exactly are CICO proponents thinking then? How does it make sense?

[@jeclipse129]

@@Ryan_DeWitt Really? Because they are so busy telling everyone “yOU cAN’T iGnOrE pHYSiCs”

[@iss8504]

The problem is that people are talking about the wrong thing. We are eating nutrients. 200 calories are the same calories whether salmon or cookies. But the nutrients in salmon are different from those in cookies.

[@christopherellis2663]

From bomb calorimeter to bum calorimeter 😂 increment minus excrement all over increment.

[@ProfFeinman]

I recommend my book “Nutrition in Crisis.” I got into this field 20 years ago because of the calories in-calories out question. I don’t usually blow my own horn but the analysis in my book will help clarify this question.

[@em_pen]

I'd love to hear more from Raymond - this is great info :)

[@belgravedave]

More of this guy please, he was outstanding!

[@danielharvey1488]

I thoroughly agree, he is a brilliant speaker

[@karenohanlon4183]

Great talk I am not suprised the protein they tested was gluten. Happy to see the fat was the most digestable not giving up Kerrygold butter or ribeyes anytime soon😊

[@C0nstellati0ns]

Pretty good, happy to see the flawed calorie concept being discussed

[@nicholascanada3123]

It's refreshing 😌 especially if you study physics or biology at all

[@alfita1981]

Nice, You should get in touch with Bart Kay

[@Mwilke3789]

This is the explanation I have been waiting for!!! Thank you 💗

[@OGPedXing]

Have any chemists among us done the calculations based on atp generation? I mean 1 gram of sucrose is a number of molecules of glucose and fructose which becomes a 36 atp, and each molecule of palmetic acid becomes x atp and so on.

[@JD-rc6lq]

Watch "Dr. Michael Eades A New Theory of Obesity" covers this topic.

[@nicholascanada3123]

I always thought we should do a measurement of atp instead of nonsense calorie crap

[@charlestoast4051]

That is one heck of a comedy beard, Raymond! Loved the talk!

[@HallyVee]

Don't let the rather banal beginning fool you, this is both critical and fascinating.

[@numbers111222]

Where's Bart Kay?

[@the-igloo]

There it is yet again: too much protein causes gluconeogenesis. @5:25 Some people say gluconeogenesis is demand-driven, and some say it is caused. I see these 2 conflicting statements all over the web/youtube Does anyone know the absolute truth?

[@Lamz..]

How couldn't they measure fiber, wood shavings usually burn pretty good?

[@RichardFeinman-yf7lx]

Good talk. I think you underplayed the fact that Atwater knew what he was doing. He knew that food is the fuel and not energy. He was asking how much energy could be obtained by metabolizing food, how much work could be obtained. He started out by being explicit that we don’t know the process. He was also trying to provide practical rules but he knew they were approximations. ‘Calories in….’ As in the title of your talk, doesn’t make sense.

[@rasferrastfarian739]

Great presentation, thanks!

[@adelarsen9776]

"Calories In - Calories Out" - Debunked. It's what your body does with the calories which matters. Great metabolic human health comes from human behaviour and that includes eating human food. Don't eat seed oils, sugars, carbs nor processed foods. Eat human food.

[@DaKeezl]

I want to eat you from nose to tail... 😂

[@thekalamerchant]

Your body can only do with calories what amount of them you put into your body. This has a direct effect on your energy expenditure and on what and how much energy is expended. Thus, CICO not debunked.

[@lowrimitton1641]

What was the fourth macronutrient? I missed that bit somehow.

[@JD-rc6lq]

Ketones? He didnt say it though.

[@nicholascanada3123]

I knew most of this but the details just make me even angrier

[@AnnabellaRedwood]

Really great talk. Epic beard. 😊

[@brucemaher7621]

Always good..

[@shahyar234]

please watch professor Bart Kay, regarding calories.

[@kimoscar760]

Logical and well presented

[@joetart9905]

So if counting calories is not ideal, what other methods are?

[@Irina-gem]

Count grams of protein

[@jessrx1]

Grams…. Count carb grams

[@DaKeezl]

To eat fat and protein until satisfied. 😊 Animals don't count calories or macros. Why do humans?

[@AzaleaBee]

Ideal for what outcome? General health, weight management? Paying attention to whole foods vs highly processed as well as how many times one eats during a 24 hour period and how many consecutive hours one is fasted between the last meal of one day to the break-fast of the next is generally helpful for both health and weight management. Paying attention to whole food macronutrients takes it a step further. Phytonutrients another step.

[@TeroCarni]

Maybe You should look Bart Kay's videos...

[@Mylittle3Kittens]

Great

[@Bruce.Wallace]

Great stuff Ray.

[@aliceroberts7437]

Fascinating and well presented! 👍

[@mrmelkor1]

I think a lot of people know calories is a terrible way to measure food energy, but as a general metric of scale to try and judge how much food one is eating what's the alternative measure?

[@JN-or1zr]

mass

[@DaKeezl]

If you feed a person a proper diet there is simply no need to count macros and calories. Being able to listen to your body is key.

[@JD-rc6lq]

Grams works.

[@AzaleaBee]

How much food is only part of what we should be considering. In addition to quantity, quality (whole foods vs highly processed, macronutrientsas well as phytonutrients), frequency (how often one eats), and fasting (how many consecutive hours between the last meal and break-fast) are important. Quality of sleep and many other factors effect our metabolism as well.

[@ernesthader1109]

Bart Kay has experimented eating a 6000 kcal meat based diet and still lost weight. That's why he doesn't beleive in cico.

[@TheFrustratedBull]

I ask my clients a simple question, who will weigh more? A person eating 2000kcals with 500g of food or a person eating 2000kcal using 2kg of food? This helps them to understand that calories are not the problem with weight. Weight is the problem with weight.

[@739jep]

And who will store more fat in adipose tissue? A person who consumed a 500 calorie surplus following the consumption of 2kg of food or a person who consumed a 500 calorie deficit after consuming 2.5kg of food ?

[@cassieoz1702]

Excellent, articulate summary. So all the models for 'energy in' are Crap. When you add to the ENORMOUS inaccuracies in both quoted food content , energy expenditure and the complete ignorance of metabolic adaptation means ... there's just no point in considering it

[@Sejdr]

Interesting, TY!

[@sondralee8539]

Stabilising metabolism is what has to be worked on. Vegetarian diet can't stabilise metabolism or build muscle.

[@Noguarantees637]

How do you account for the vegan athletes and bodybuilders?

[@patrykjaniak7042]

And no exp about new model that works, but its fine I'll do it myself

[@nicholascanada3123]

Thermodynamics is a relevant as E=mc²🎉

[@foodmonsterweightloss5886]

Question: Assuming the hormal model has validity. What happens if an individujal's hormones remains the same while that person overeats? It could be over the holidays or on a 6 week cruise. They gain weight. All the deep dive into physics and biochemistry doesn't alter the fact that overeating causes added weight. At some basic level, while it may be wrongly titled, ultimately "calories" in has to equal weight, up, down, or stable.

[@Lizz1949]

I don't think it's over eating. It's to do with the type of foods we eat. If we eat protein and fat we get full a lot quicker. If we eat mostly carbs and we create a metabolic issue and a glucose use and storage issue. This ends up in weight gain. I can't give the tech side of it but I know this is how things go. Many in the low carb/keto/carnivore groups can explain it much better than I can. Maybe check out a few in the low carb people on Facebook. I no longer count calories. It never worked for me. I use blood glucose meter and. eat when my blood glucose is at its lowest. And I lose weight

[@Mwilke3789]

People are not overeating steaks and fish during the holidays. They are generally eating Mom/Grandma's famous [sugary/carb heavy] dish/dessert. It's not the over eating. It the food (carbs) that change your hormones (insulin), that allow you to overeat by shutting off your feedback mechanisms and then store the excess calories.

[@Ryan_DeWitt]

It's because over-eating holds people accountable for their weight gain and people don't like that. They like to think there is some magic way to eat where they can eat whatever they want and not gain weight and that is not reality.

[@CarnivoreGrace]

@@Ryan_DeWitt You are refusing to understand. It's what you eat. People don't over eat meat and veg. It's sugar and processed grains in the form of addictive processed foods, ( ie carbs) that are over eaten. Stop putting that crap down your neck and you will lose fat off your body naturally. Eat as much meat, eggs and veg as you want. Over eat it, if you can, and you will improve your body composition. If you want to call keto, ketovore or carnivore "magic" ways of eating, I would have to agree. The proper human diet is indeed magical.

[@Herodotus999]

Fascinating

[@cashmereruins7670]

That’s my name too😊😊😊

[@engc4953]

Calories are totally irrelevant.

[@MrSojek]

So don't bother, eat 10kg of food daily.

[@fcsoldeu5338]

gym bros will disagree. 😂

[@SirPraiseSun]

yea they just parrot indoctrination camps and popular influencer stuff

[@robertphillips1941]

Let's remember the quote "all models are wrong, some are useful". Calories in/out is simply a model, as is quantum mechanics and The Standard Model. They are wrong in the strictest sense, but that doesn't mean they don't provide value.

[@739jep]

People in the comments didn’t watch the video, they just read the title I think. He doesn’t debunk CICO , he doesn’t say the first law of thermodynamics doesn’t apply to the human body , he doesn’t say calories can’t be eaten. He simply says it’s difficult to measure calories accurately and therefore it’s difficulty to predict how a certain diet will affect a system.

[@汗をかいたアヒル]

Calories have NO WEIGHT. A chemical bond (which when broken releases energy) HAS NO WEIGHT. All the atoms are preserved and accounted for. The exception is Fission (Nukes) and Fusion (Sun). Atoms have weight. It is where the atoms go (Storage/Building/Excretion) that matters. The weight change = Calories In -Calories out is a non sequitur - the dimensions on both sides of the equation are different viz KG = Joule - Joule. How to spot dodgy physics - similar to the "CO2 Climate Change" malarky.

[@thekalamerchant]

Calories are food energy, which is in the chemical form and has mass (weight is the wrong choice of words) since energy is a property of matter. CICO is not a non-sequitur. It is a measure of food energy that directly relates to body mass since the body stores energy (again in the form of chemical energy) when an excess of its requirements is attained, which is a direct outcome of calorie intake.

[@JN-or1zr]

good title, bad video. so, you try to explain what calories are, but quite fail and completely fail to make your point of them not being in any way relevant to nutrition.

[@Talismantra]

hardly a fail... did you even watch the presentation? this is not a PhD dissertation. his points were well made and appropriate for the intended audience

[@ravingcyclist624]

Disagree. The point he made was that calories are totally irrelevant to nutrition. Attempting to use them produce bogus results. Even Atwater realized that.

[@doltBmB]

There is no law of fat conservation!

[@Rakadis]

"calories, I do not like them"

[@Ryan_DeWitt]

It must be hard with the new diet drugs like wegovy which increase insulin but reduce appetite causing dramatic weight loss. Really kicks the old insulin model of obesity square in the face. Does it so much many low carb fanatics have switched over to promoting IF.