Razer Moray: What is a "Gaming IEM"?

[@crin]

Forgot to mention it while filming but the Morays get a C-. Will update it on the ranking list when the overhaul is finished: crinacle.com/rankings/iems

[@robinflg8066]

So you’re saying they pass? 😅

[@ctyoung0271]

The overhaul is gonna be so nice once it's finally complete. Thanks for doing all the work you do for us.

[@samiraperi467]

Better than expected.

[@Dom-HSK]

I feel like at this point, putting "gaming" on a set of headphones, ear buds or anything of the sort just means there decent headphones with more bass then needed, which, hey, I like bass, but there is more to gaming then that.

[@thanks_dad___]

Please compare them to the Final Audio VR3000, they need more time in the limelight

[@HSkelter]

In my experience, if you want a good set of "gaming" headphones/IEMs, just get a good set of comfortable music headphones/IEMs and a standalone mic if you need/want one. Sound is sound. Don't pay for marketing.

[@leaf8396]

Yeah… but some are better than others specifically for gaming. Hitting specific frequencies is really important for audio intensive shooters, so it is definitely something to consider. Dont pay attention to me tho, i have some cheap truthear c crinacle zeroes, but still miles better than my £160 headset for games

[@justuslm]

The only real advantage for gaming is to get something v-shaped. Not because treble gives you more spatial clues or anything (realistically, with hundreds of hours in the game, you will get used to both the sounds themselves and how they sound on your head-/earphones so you will easily pick them out anyway), but because deep, thumping bass and accentuated treble make gunshots and explosions sound more impactful, as well as giving engines a more full sound. And of course tastefully v-shaped head-/earphones will also be well suited for music listening.

[@aaronv3859]

you forgot the convenience part. this is kinda niche but as a uni student and an esports player, i find myself often resorting to just use the crappy headset at a cybercafe or borrow my friend's headset bcs my moondrop chu doesnt have a mic lol.

[@kujiko88]

I just use a pair of HD 599 and a Razer Seiren (was on sale) and I've never had any issues with audio quality going either direction. Every headset I've bought has always had some sort of deal breaker. Too tight on the head, sound wasn't good, cables would die for no reason, mic sucked, etc.

[@simonrockstream]

no shit.

[@xlr8442]

If it sits in your ear But it's not great to hear That's a Moray!

[@Fuzzy_Llama]

i actually sang that. XD

[@myquietreviews]

Now this comment just made my day 😂😂😂😂👍🏿

[@vincesims8839]

😂😂🤣🤣 lmao love this!

[@rachelsnyder794]

if it"s stuck in your head but it sounds mostly dead you're a dolt

[@Metal_seer]

Clever!

[@Tigrexuga13]

Can't wait for the Razer x Crinacle project then

[@blindsniper35]

Considering the only good/decent audio product I can think of from razor is a DAC that was a collaboration with THX. That would probably be a good idea for razor to stick to collaborating with people that know what they're doing.

[@TinchoX]

Oh yeah😂

[@metal571]

But if it had a usable FR it wouldn't fit with all the other audio products from the brand lmao

[@velocity790]

Won't be surprised since Crin is literally 25mins away from razer HQ SG.

[@jedisoldier]

@@blindsniper35ironically enough razer actually bought thx a while back. Doesn’t appear to have helped anything but just diluted the thx brand

[@SuperReview]

Putting “gaming” in the name has got to be one of the most effective marketing strategies of all time. Waiting for gaming jackets, gaming compact sedans, gaming coffee mugs, gaming leaf blowers, etc.

[@VSN-wb2ly]

dont forget the rgb gimmick

[@418_im_a_teapot]

Need a gaming bed, for that competitive advantage in my sleep

[@julisaleon344]

@@418_im_a_teapot hahahha

[@choreli]

Not in this. I doubt you’ll read my response BUT! I got Sony Pulse Elites after audiophiles praised them and I’m impressed. I don’t think I’ve heard better sounding headphones for games specifically. They’re VERY balanced and clear, but they’re tuned specifically for minor details in environments. You can probably pull off better, but for that price, and when discussing details like the sound of your clothes muffling or an arrow piercing wood, these are best in their and multiple classes above them.

[@SuperReview]

@@choreli Conversely, "gaming" def doesn't mean something is inherently bad. My beef is just that the needs of gamers with these products are essentially the same as the needs of non-gamers. So making "gaming" versions of products is kinda silly.

[@flashjor98]

Imagine the Truthear zero signature with Razer Moray comfort at $80. Razer could easily take over the gaming IEM market with that combo. Razer if you're reading this I know you don't like to listen to your consumers (the Cobra), but listen to Crin and make some magic happen.

[@Alepap.]

No, clearly what this iem needs is RGB, and Synapse

[@iamjorj]

@@Alepap. kinda shocked they don't already have that

[@shanksisnoteventhatstrongbruh]

that would be TOO GOOD, Razer is definitely NOT doing that LMAO

[@Cupzero007]

seriously, they should reach out Crin to tuning their next IEM (and just removes the THX gimmick for cheaper price)

[@ACE112ACE112]

@@Alepap. synapse lol. required login lmao

[@morgan2488]

from what i'm understanding solely from this review, these IEMs are marketed wrong. it seems like this should be marketed as a streamer IEM, rather than a gaming IEM, made to be used for long time streaming use that isn't specifically made to be competitive all the time

[@why_tho_]

you hit the nail right on the head

[@lebronjames5287]

They have always marketed anything with a gamer tag

[@jeeewhyyypheee]

@@lebronjames5287 This, if a company already put a tag on it then they need to really deliver it

[@fuad000100]

Then again that price tag

[@katrinabryce]

@@RavenL1337 Confortable to wear, good enough sound?

[@ThibautMahringer]

Razer : "We have tuned these IEMs to not be aggressive" Also Razer : Flat bass with big 2khz and 6khz peaks Yeah... Sure... Nice Job.

[@the_mister_magister]

2kHz peak… ouch it's just… ouch

[@hufranklin9925]

If Razer gives their IEM a boom mic, its sound graph just won't matter anymore🤪

[@WalkMrJ]

The frequency of footsteps turned up with the frequency of gun shots turned down. Yeah. This is what I want.

[@the_mister_magister]

@@WalkMrJ frequency of footsteps is quite high, but not 2/6kHz i believe

[@VSN-wb2ly]

@@the_mister_magister footsteps frequency is varied, sometimes it's in low mid and sometimes it's upper midrange

[@jetflash100]

Since crinacle can't say it, I will. The closest thing to a gaming profile, funny enough, is the harman curve, which makes crinnacle's original zero the best gaming iem.

[@古明地恋-s9c]

I think future collab sets could be those optimized greater with comfort.

[@__vha]

It's been echoed by many FPS gamers that the Zero is a fantastic IEM. There's been a surge of popularity with IEMs for gamers because of the comfort and light weight, seems like Razer is just trying to ride the "fad" among gamers without making an actual good product.

[@seankuhn6633]

I came hear to say this also! I agree 100% they are so good i got 2 Truthear x Criancle Zeros 1 as a back up

[@shanksisnoteventhatstrongbruh]

yep, seems most (if not all) game studios master and design their audio with the classic harman target/curve so it makes sense why the Crin Zero excels at gaming (having the extra driver in crossover is what actually helps it above the other 1DD price competitors that also target the Harman Curve).

[@jetflash100]

@zioperaza2500 if gaming OG1. Reds are a better music experience but lose what makes OG1 good at gaming.

[@Hashim1]

Ah yes finally I've been waiting for so long this gonna be fun to watch

[@rustyshakelford1466]

To me the most comfortable IEM will always be the one with the smallest body, not the body that most conforms to your ear. After all, you can avoid a lot of comfort issues entirely if the shell simply never touches most of the ear. Unfortunately bullet-style IEMs are pretty much ignored these days; There are some good ones, but not many in the community are asking for them and new models are sparse.

[@illitero]

Reading your comment made me think of something even smaller than the BLON BL Mini and jokingly calling it the BLON BL0⅐, but a quick google reminded me that they already have a bullet style called the Fat Girl haha. There are definitely a decent selection of this style across price ranges, they're just not hyped up like the more traditional style.

[@Razar244]

I'm fairly sure the newer KZ DQS also uses that shell design (Underside looks the same at least) while costing around 10 to 15 euros and having an arguably better tuning too, Harman pinna with BLON BL-03's levels of bass which kinda makes them close-ish to the USOUND target.

[@bfzsgaming6068]

The least comfortable IEM i've ever owned. The wing thing was constantly stabbing my ear. Go for Tin T3 Plus it's MILES better.

[@WickedRibbon]

Razer are real funny charging $130 for these. A couple years back I picked up a pair of Sound Magic E11 earphones for I think £25-30, and they've been absolutely stellar for both gaming and movies - despite have zero "gaming" or "streamer" branding. They're perfect for when I don't want to wear a bulky pair of headphones but still want a nice listening experience. I even purchased a second pair for my Switch. So for about £60 all in I've got two comfortable pairs of earphones with great audio - half the price of the Morays, which by Crinacle's account have weak sound quality anyway.

[@philxdev]

people are dumb.... and because people are dumb, we can´t have nice things... have seen beyerdynamics had a pair of inear headphones they were selling for around 20 but when it did not sell they changed the price to 120 and BAAM people start buying.

[@Sapertf]

The Final E3000 and Moondrop Quarks are the most comfortable IEMs I have ever used They are so small and light, it doesn't matter the shape of the ear/iem at all

[@discoRyne]

I ran through the Hexa, Hola and Zero:Red for multiple hours in CSGO and Quake and found the Hexa with AutoEQ loaded up had insane positional audio capabilities. Found myself tracking opponents through walls easier than my HD6XX somehow. The only downside is the comfort difference but the drivers found in that set are absolutely brilliant with the W1 tips installed.

[@Like13Pirates]

Could you explain a little more about autoeq? Would it work for the zero red? That’s what I use for PUBG and they have been the best I have ever used. But could I make them better?

[@Mishael_Agyei-Boamah]

@@Like13Pirates No don't touch the Red with EQ... they're near perfect

[@hideakikovacs2859]

Whats recommended for hexa autoeq?

[@abhitejvelore]

Honestly, turning off the music in games leads to a more competitive edge than a lot of IEM's. I play a lo of Dota2, not a game you'd think benefits from improved audio, but ever since I've been playing it without music, you can clearly tell so many interactions apart, that it makes the whole experience better. From a competitive standpoint, no more audio swelling up before specific fights, nothing, you can hear an initiation crystal clear from the fog and keep a track of everything that happens, just by the sound of it.

[@Ayva_K]

I hate my Holas for gaming. Are the Zero Reds better for it?

[@seankuhn6633]

Truthear x Crinacle zero (blue ones) have an amazing footstep bass aspect while still having excellent top end for glass breaking and grass rustleing! Iceman Issac the warzone streamer is how i found your channel! Thank you for your videos!

[@ravantgarde1899]

I love them, but even with the smallest Azla Sedneartips my ears cry in pain after a whilee

[@mr.hanfblatt9152]

To me, someone who plays a very sound design based shooter (Hunt: Showdown), a gaming IEM is a gaming IEM when it's good in directional cues. The reason why i still use overear headphones for gaming is, its still often times easier to tell direction with them compared to IEMs (in my case the moondrop aria). Doesent really matter if i can hear foodsteps or not if i cant tell from which direction they're coming from.

[@NeonMako]

See for Hunt: Showdown specifically, the now old KZ KS7 IEM is still the best I've used. (they don't make it anymore, but I've heard the KZ KS10 is close to the same if not better) Been better than the Aria/Aria SE and similar, better than the classic HD598/HD58X and even better than my AD900X positionally. For most games they are pretty rough, as the midbass bloat has a muddying effect but in Hunt, have no idea why but they are way better than anything else I've used. The classic neutral/highend focus used for competitive gaming seems to be detrimental for that game. (and that game only, so far)

[@mr.hanfblatt9152]

@@NeonMako ah, thanks for the info. yes, Hunt is very different compared to other competitive shooters due to it's incredible sound design and gameplay-focus around that. Instead of focused on mid/highs, you would need something more rounded due to the many different undertones depending on gun, distance and location (outside/inside building/underground). i'll have to test these out if i can get my hands on them

[@ClockBestEvent]

The videography on this video is amazing, kudos

[@cloaca1234]

I like your point of view and how you support your ideas. About the suggested lowering of the price, people nowadays just buy 'gaming' things due to the tag, and even more so with Razer products. Razer never lowers its prices.

[@MetaLexxer]

Thank you! Finally, someone attempts to define a "gaming IEM" while offering useful/supportive commentary around the entire debacle.

[@evilswineunderwood995]

When comfort lights a spark But the sound is too dark That‘s a Moray

[@ryukosho1209]

Thanks for the review Crin. I actually enjoyed your analysis of this and found it very informative and food for thought. I expected you to maybe say how bad they are but this was more interesting.

[@FIyingPengwin]

Great video as always. One of thing I would mention though regarding "gaming performance". When it comes to shooters, one thing matter more than anything else, and that is imaging. Being able to pinpoint the enemy, where they are without having to look give a massive edge. Even if the audio quality is garbage, being able to identify where you opponent is coming from is the biggest thing. Sound-stage would be right up there next to it. It is part of the reason why the Sennheiser PC38x is successful. The sound quality is not great, but the imaging on it is absurd.

[@stbstyles]

Would u get pc38x or another sennheiser if I have external mic

[@sadfrog5787]

hd6xx​@@stbstyles

[@Huskytickler]

Great video Crin, your extensive knowledge and honest appraisal is always appreciated

[@napalmhardcore]

After spending a considerable amount of time reading forum threads about gaming headphones/headsets and trying out different things, I've found myself largely going my own way. Firstly, not only is preference highly subjective, but sometimes your actual experience can be subjective. I've seen people revere headphones for gaming due to their huge sound stage and frequency response that helps them more easily pick out footsteps, but when I tried them, the imaging was off so that visual and audio cues didn't line up (think an object appearing to be 45 degrees sounding as if it's at 60 degrees) and there was just this disconnect between what I was seeing and what I was hearing. Regarding the subjective experience part I mentioned above: When I bought what I'd call my first pair of real headphones (not just whatever happened to be in whichever shop I was in at the time and were cheap or included free with something), they seemed to be pretty well regarded in their price bracket. For me however they had a bizarre property. They had an extremely wide sound stage, but no forward depth whatsoever. In fact, certain sounds which should sound as if they were in front of me seemed like they were passing just behind the line between my ears towards the back of my head. This was true with music too so that certain panning effects seemed to come from behind me/towards the back of my head. What works best for me are neutral headphones/IEMs with good imaging and good dynamics. I like neutral headphones/IEMs because I can build up a better mental image of the environment when different aspects of it are balanced in proportion to each other. The benefit of good imaging is obvious. Sounds line up with where they are visually. Good dynamics are not discussed nearly enough in conversations about gaming headphones. In my experience sound stage has two main contributors: 1) Dynamics and 2) Frequency response. Frequency response can be used to create the illusion of a large soundstage which can be pleasant for music but is detrimental for games because you sacrifice accuracy for a faux sense of space. If you have a neutral headphone/IEM with good imaging, dynamics is what gives you depth and a genuine sense of distance.

[@hotshot590]

Any recommendations?

[@napalmhardcore]

@@hotshot590 For headphones: HD 560S. I actually just had a DT 900 Pro X arrive today which might be a good choice but haven't tested in a game yet. Sounds good for music though. For IEMs: Truthear Hexa/Zero Red (Personally I prefer the Hexa's sub to mid bass transition) or Blessing 2 (I've not tried the Dusk, but going off the Zero Red's tuning I think I'd prefer the regular Blessing 2, sorry if you're reading this, Crin). For headset's I don't have a recommendation at the moment. It's been a long time since I've played anything online which requires a mic. I have a HyperX Cloud 2 I haven't used in a long time so I don't really remember my impressions and I used to have a Sennheiser Game One which I remember being a bit underwhelmed with. I remember it being a bit dull and lifeless compared to my HD 598s. If Sennheiser ever slap a mic on a 560S that would pretty much be my ideal headset. I'd probably pick one up just in case I got back into online gaming. I tried a ModMic for a while but just found it to be a bit annoying. I much prefer the functionality of a dedicated headset.

[@RyouEmerald]

I've just learned over the years that anything involving audio and it has "Gaming" on it, to just ignore it. Over the years I've just ended up getting a good pair of headphones, IEM, and a good microphone. I find them just fine for games and music and anything. Good audio equipment is good for everything in my opinion.

[@Fennetic]

I def agree on comfort. One of my first iems was the zs3 and I still miss that kind of fit 3 years later lmao Might buy a tkzk ouranos sometime soon simply for the fit lmao

[@handlemonium]

Fiio FA1 is another one I love for comfort and treble. Bass and Mids are kinda dull tho cuz of the single BA.

[@ZBM2]

When looking at gear to use while gaming there’s really 2 big things to look for. Comfort and Price. If I’m playing FPS: Spatial Audio is then the biggest contributor to “Competitive Advantage.” (Which lets be honest a pair of open backs headphones will be your best option here for comfort and a more “natural” spatial audio experience; not IEMs) If I’m wanting it on console, the boom mic is also wanted for convenience. A super simple concept that is just constantly being missed in the IEM market.

[@luisroque9996]

Razer x Crin collab would be insane

[@rwa2play]

Great review; it boggles my mind when one sells an IEM for hundreds of dollars yet the Moondrop Chu's are a fraction of that price and can do the job better.

[@guilllaumebellemare3070]

Could you do a video about the best IEMs for competitive gaming (best for immersion and being able to distinguish footsteps and directions)?

[@himawari8390]

i wanto to know also @crinacle

[@abhineetthaire4602]

Any IEM with decent soundstage and isolation will be good. I use a truthear hola and that works perfectly fine. You are never going to get a kill that you wouldn't have otherwise gotten with a slightly worse IEM

[@guilllaumebellemare3070]

@@abhineetthaire4602 I also thought that, but watched other reviews from tech youtubers like fresh reviews and brandon taylor on IEMs with good sound stage for gaming applications and it turns out u gotta b careful. Some are good but some surprisingly bad for competitive gaming...

[@boolaga]

Check out Fresh Reviews. He talks about gear from a competitive aspect and has an updated list of preferences in each uploaded video.

[@Pi22aPino]

Check out @Teknickel for a lot of gaming IEM videos.

[@JohnXuandou]

For $130 these days you can regularly find the Letshuoer S12 on sale, and not only will that have really big bass for those types of sounds, it also has a pretty forward and emphasized treble region as well. If you're looking for detail, clarity, resolution, sound separation in an IEM, it's basically unbeatable at that price. And it's not bad for music either. I don't know what Razer was thinking with this.

[@RizzY_RUS]

I've got IKKO OH10 for 110$ :D

[@philxdev]

razor has shelf space and they want a piece of the market... so they just wing it and release this product as their answer to the "trend". and while you are an informed consumer with brains who can differentiate good and bad, make no mistake... there are plenty who can´t and will just buy buy buy. razor is probably not loosing anything over this... considering the sound quality their r&d cost is most likely outsourced and next to nothing as they just went to another oem.

[@sincitisaint223]

That's it, we need Crinacle to team up with someone and help tune for gaming, footsteps and the such specifically.

[@mpetrov2402]

See the thing is gaming is more than shooters. Not that I'll buy this overpriced * * * * but it seems that the signature would be awesome for all other game genres that don't involve shooting or listening to footsteps.

[@Sherolox]

@@mpetrov2402 Gaming *is* more than just FPS, but sadly, since the FPS and competitive gaming market is larger than ever the term 'Gaming' will, at least currently, be nearly synonymous with any kind of shooter game. Especially since a lot of people buy wired IEMs solely for that perceived competitive advantage. If you'd ask me for more versatile 'Gaming' headphones or IEMs, I'd tell you soundstage, immersion and a decent amount of action to the sound are important. But, add too much bass and everything will sound muffled and boxy.

[@Asatiir]

Excellent video. My first impression was I pictured these to be less for competitive gaming and more for single player experiences (specficially handhelds like the Nintendo Switch and the steam deck) so finding out that these were made for streaming is a bit of a surprise. For something like that I use Final Audio A3000s, their sound stage and compact size is great for that.

[@dzikrimahfud2090]

What would you recommend for single player gaming?

[@Sherolox]

@@dzikrimahfud2090 It's been a while since you've posted this, but, open-back over ear headphones, such as the Sennheiser HD 560S, HD 650, and so on with a wide soundstage and open, transparent sound are great for immersive single player experiences. Some of those are on sale very frequently. IEM soundstage is comparatively lacking, sadly, so it won't be as immersive. Though IEMs with good treble extension and air are an option if you *need* it to be IEMs. If you wish for more action-rich sound, with big boomy explosions, gunshots and so on, you could always EQ some bass onto them. But, besides speakers, you will hardly find anything more spacious and immersive than open back over ear headphones.

[@acidicfate]

People are realizing IEM's are generally better for gaming, in semi-comp to competitive, but as you said, the lines get blurred between IEM's and Cans if you know what to listen for. But companies see this, and are just smashing lack luster IEM's into the market hoping people buy them only due to the brand name. Why does this bother me? If these are someones introduction to IEM's, they get a horrible first time experience and will probably just go back to their cans and miss out all that IEM's can offer. At the $130 price point these have, there are WAY better options available, most are cheaper too.

[@Shardsounds]

THE BEST GAMING IEM is one which you've gotten used to the sound signature of XD you can argue that boosting specific frequencies can help with isolating footsteps and gunshots but if you're used to the sound signature of your iem/headphone then you're already looking for sounds in those frequencies anyways i've been gaming with several different headphones/iems (hd6xx, ksc75, kato, chu) and i've never had an issue where I couldn't hear the footsteps or gunshots or haven't been able to remember which direction it came from

[@SammerJammer]

A truthear x Crinacle Zero with the footstep and gunshot tuning bumps for 50 bucks sold as a "gaming IEM" would kill in the market. Only thing that bugs me with the current iteration is the larger nozzle after extended usage. Toss some funky cyberpunk colors on a box and ship em lol

[@NoHope_]

I learned a long time ago that if you want good quality products that actually provide you with value, you don't go to a "gaming" company. Buy a set of flat profile iems that have good staging, a stand alone mic so you can actually be understood instead of sounding like a broadcast from dday and you will be way better off for the same if not cheaper price.

[@Hari-kx2er]

At this point, I have zero idea why companies release iems with crap frequency response whether for music or gaming. I get that in the early days of the audiophile community, it was difficult to know which sound signature is good. So they just thrown a bunch of stuff at the wall to see what stuck. However, now a days it is easy to understand which sound signature to prioritise for which use case scenario. There are many famous fr curves including Harman, Crinacle and also the fr curves of Andrew from HPS, Precog, BGGAR etc. Only abject laziness seems to be the reason for purely tuned iems these days. How much extra money or effort would it have cost Razr to tune this iem according to Harmon or similar to something like truthear Hexa??

[@hteety]

Imo, there is a market for true gaming iems, meaning an iem whose sound signature doesn't sound good, but fully isolate footsteps, gunshots, and sound effects that are reactable to. I don't know what kind of graph that would look like, and Im not saying these hit that goal, but I think there's market for bad sounding, but specificly tuned audio equipment.

[@batsusamayt]

I went from CHU to OLA to CCA CRA and finally Truthear Zero... Still gaming, listen to music & podcasts and making montages with and I love them, I don't even feel the need to switch over any other pair of IEMs. Perfection (imo) 👌 RAZER "Gaming" IEMs ? Hell Nah !

[@duewest1987]

Regarding the bass, a lower bass response actually helps with competitive gaming because your ears aren't being dwarfed by excessive bass which lets you have more spatial awareness. In Apex Legends for example, the bass of gunshots is so loud it crowds out other important sounds. Not sure how treble affects competitive gaming but from my experience it's not that important

[@PointShotDR]

A slightly different point of view that even made me like the Razer proposal, ignoring the price. Made for gaming, does it necessarily need to be competitive gaming? I love gaming, video games, lounging in bed, and never, EVER, competitive gaming. I play to relax, and when I'm not playing I'm watching a movie or series. So a super comfortable headphone with non-tiring audio seemed like a super interesting proposition. Assuming, of course, that it was cheaper.

[@tejaswiraj6610]

I do wonder if what razer was trying to emphasize was the material sound. Modern FPS games have really distinct (almost unrealistic) sounds for every material the player can run through and in my experience is the thing I am always looking for instead of how loud the actual footstep is since after playing a map enough you can tell where the enemy is off it

[@aloha_bensent6494]

first time watching your videos. i love the entertainment, the reactions, and the timing of everything. You'll be my go to for iems for now on

[@Cryowatt]

"What is a gaming _anything_?" Let's be real, it's one thing: RGB lighting

[@_________5610]

Thanks for telling me what to think crinacle!

[@shApYT]

Your next IEM needs to use an ergo shell for sleep. Pls make it cheap. TY.

[@gooberdz]

Love the green hue theme!! It’s perfect! Gaming companies gotta do better with audio man!!

[@Neil_Mackie]

For CSGO at LAN events you'll see players with earphones or IEMs under the tournament issued headsets, but they all seem to be pretty bog standard stuff or, as Crin says, sponsor dependent. I recall dev1ce asking for advice a while back about better IEMs - he was trying Shures at the time - and it would appear there is a target market for game tuned IEMS. Whether anybody will delve into data files or to test frequency of noises in certain games and design IEMs around that is perhaps a different matter, particularly if user hardware or set up could affect this in someway.

[@ahmedbenlahrech5352]

Yup, I remember also a CSGO pro criticizing the sponsored IEMs, I would really love the data of what IEMs pros prefer, I have the Salnotes zeroes and I play CSGO at a high level but I prefer my cheap headphones over my IEMs ( even though my Zeroes blow my headphones out of the water when it comes to quality it's not even comparable) since they have better stereo imagining since by definition, it's hard to achieve that on an IEM

[@martijn86]

In my opinion a Gaming headphone or headset should have incredibly imaging. Boosting the frequencies that are of high importance for intelligibility ((1 or 2) to (4 or 5)Khz). A slight increase in sub-bass for immersion and upper treble that follows Diffuse field tuning, not to be fatiguing.

[@Abadeez]

Honestly, Soundstage is king for gaming. It's why things like the AKG k712 and the SHP9500 for a budget option are incredible. They are super wide and can easily pinpoint footsteps. Excessive bass actually drowns out important audio. If you're looking to boost those you want to buy a amp/dac like the SoundBlaster g6 as an example. Plenty of other options but those will do better at boosting what you want when you want and the rest of the time having your headphones be great for movies and music.

[@kvernesdotten]

Thats suprising to me, I have a rather big collection of headphones and IEMs in all kinds of price ranges, and the k712 has actually been my "daily driver" since 2016 spesifically because of the comfort and how natural sounding they are. KZbin, podcasts and audio books are a dream with those, so is whatever little audio editing I do. Pretty decent for games too, but if I play something I want to really be immersed in, I swap them. While the imaging is pretty decent on them, ive never found them to be especially wide sounding though. Ive always found them to be quite close, but never so much it feels like you get audio pumped into your ear like alot of closed backs etc. Im curious now, what are you comparing it to?

[@excesssum]

A serious answer to your question as to "what makes a competitive gaming headset/iem a competitive gaming headset/iem", specifically when it comes to the way it sounds: The absolutely number one most important aspect is imaging. By far. The accuracy of both the angle and depth on all 3 axes. Secondly - sound separation. Third - The frequency response should be as flat as possible (mild harman, maybe), but with good treble extension (for harmonics, as you mentioned yourself). As for the bass - boosted bass is to be avoided, as it becomes overbearing in a FPS environment, when there are grenades exploding around you, and you are listening in for the variety of footsteps and gunshot sounds in order to determine where the opponents are going, and what they are doing. There is no point in tuning the drivers for specific frequencies, as in a game like CS for instance, you are listening for a variety of sounds that occur on quite a wide frequency band. And none of those sounds are intrinsically more important than others. As for other features of specifically gaming IEM - i reckon this product might be aimed at people who are trying to imitate pro players on stage, who would wear IEMs under white noise generating headsets, the latter of which also provides a microphone, so the inclusion of it on the actual IEM is not required.

[@shanksisnoteventhatstrongbruh]

Moray shape + made of magnesium (like the Viper SE) + Crin Zero Tuning + TruthEar Hexa driver config + a good dynamic boom mic for $130-$150 would have been Killer but instead they made this... Razer is fucking up BAD recently (the Cobra Pro mouse is such a weird release too).

[@burns0100]

Man if only Razor spoke to someone who knew how to tune IEM's specifically for the use of video games. They'd sell these like crazy if they made sound good.

[@BruhCh]

daddy crin upload a new video!

[@nikkoa.3639]

I'm loving the "That's Amore" lyric in the description

[@TommyLoaded]

Great review, Razer is killing it.

[@mochisuii]

ikr the product is dead on arrival

[@hubrisir7646]

Great video as always, we need a new gaming headphones/IEM buying guide updated to 2024! Or maybe a gaming ranking list 😄

[@senseofpermanence]

I think the choked high range of this is particularly useful for shooting games. Competitive shooters for hours on end do get very fatiguing.

[@ArlyOfficial]

I have watched 2 of your videos, yes 2. Since then I have bought your Zero Red IEMS and put all my razer products in the bin. I wonder how the 3rd video will change my life? Love the content please never stop

[@chrisy7738]

chu 2 chu2 chu2 UwU

[@etherealjaunt356]

Lmao, chuchu

[@anthonycruz6958]

Great vid, this is actually helpful and will help eq my iems for gaming

[@leosakalam]

No RGB = Not Gaming

[@ianspy1]

I have played with Arias, E5000's and LZ A2 pro's. All where great. E5000's where best for rumbly subbass. Which made the games more imerssive. This led me to buying crusher evo's... And I am actually happy 😂. Playing "ground branch" for example gives the shots really nice impact, and makes you way more immersed :D Only issue I have is that the subbass make it very very weird to self monitor my voice. Which I am used to from using IEM's. This can be a bit annoying when talking on discord, I have thought about just wearing IEM's with them on xD I also have to say some bad stuff about my Arias... Did not like them. If you look online you will see that the paint will chip off. And I also had this weird issue where the IEM's wherent propperly "vented", I guess ? Moisture would cause them to get unbalanced in terms of volume. Putting them back in a case with silica "fixed" them every time.

[@NoHonorPenta]

Just a quick Headsup, InEar actually was created after Hörluchs. It is as well a German Company, but from the Music Scene.

[@supremacy98]

I think the morays are for those who like buying razor products and want a decent earbud they can wear for an extended gaming/entertainment session, according to what crin has pointed out. Whether that is justified is subjective, I personally don't find those reasons appealing enough to spend that much money on an iem that is subpar in everything except comfort, which is decently good

[@cedricboivin9422]

Could we really say that an IEM which follow a +5db bass boost with -0.8db tilt have "limp bass"?

[@bondiger1]

The best outro in the game. Cracks me up every time lolol

[@pinopadayao7322]

Thanks for this information. I’m far from being competitive but I have been looking for a one and done setup.

[@L1qu1d_5h4d0w]

Footsteps are actually not part of the bass, they belong to the mids-upper mids and depending on the surface even highs (water metal sheet ect..)and bass distracts you unnecessarily when you need focus and listen to small details. 😅 All competitive fps eq's basically have 0 bass. The response curve of the razor iem's look good to me in those regards but I should add that I don’t use "gaming" eq's 😅.

[@sammy10001]

Question for someone that really knows what they're talking about? 1) what frequency band do you recommend a boost in to hear footsteps better? Like 20hz to 200hz, and how much of a dB boost? 2) what frequency band do you recommend a boost in high frequency to hear gunshots better across the map? Above 10khz, and how much of a dB boost?

[@Morphshu]

I agree on all points about the FR being bad for both competitive gaming and music, but I don't think they were going for either of those markets, right? I think the entire thrust of the IEM was "long hours", so that means both comfort AND sound signature. It's not meant to be a TOTL sound; it's meant to just be something that you can play games with / listen to music / stream sounds / what-have-you for 8 hours on end without you wanting to pull them out. From my experience, there aren't many in-ears I'd want in my ears all day without wanting to take them out, so if these fill that niche then I can definitely see the reasoning. That said, I do wonder if you could just buy a KZ ZS3 and turn the volume down to the point where it's not fatiguing and get the same effect. Personally, I just use my $5 VE Monks for streaming (earbuds so I don't have to worry about physical fatigue), So the $130 price point on the Morays still seems kind of ridiculous no matter how you slice it.

[@clockwork6966]

For my view a gaming headset (keyword being headSET) is a headphone with a boom mic, but also something with very large ear cups and drivers to make surround more noticeable, comfortable to wear for a long period of time and finaly, to a lesser extent, something compatible and customisable via a gaming software (ghub for example)

[@kevindiassouza1485]

Tin P1 Max it's the perfect IEM for gaming, for some reason the perception of directions are simply perfect, you hear anything in the matches.

[@ahsaft]

are you gonna make a new guide to iems at some point? since the one linked on your website is not available anymore (yes i know there is a tierlist but god damn there are a lot, and now that i see this shell design i feel like i would need to look even longer for that)

[@SuperSoldierADHD]

I do have to say from my own experience with the Razer Moray is that they're amazing for what they're designed for. I play a lot of Call of Duty Ranked and Tarkov, and many other shooters, and I hear a huge difference when using these IEM's compared to my BASN Metalen Pros and my KZ ZS10 Pros. Moray IEM: When using them I can hear footsteps with pinpoint accuracy, not to mention I can hear gunshots very well. I can even estimate how far someone is from these footsteps/ gunshots. ZS10 Pro IEM: As amazing as they are for listening to music, they do not work for my ears when Playing FPS games. I love how I'm still able to separate what instrument is playing when listening to music, but the bass makes everything too muddy, which is something I detest in gaming headsets, so why would I want a boost in bass in my IEMS? BASN Metalen PRO: These are tuned more for bass heavy applications so I feel like I shot myself in the foot when trying these for shooters. It was disgusting for gaming. I will not take that back. However they're so fucking good when performing on stage. I couldn't recommend a better set of IEMs for a musician to use for a live performance Now keep in mind, this is only an opinion that I have because of how MY ears work. someone of you may not like the Moray's because it doesn't work for you ears personally, and that is perfectly fine. But to downright say they're bad is stupid. Also the fact that these IEM's don't have a mic is a godsend. I hate IEMs with mics, sorry not sorry. Plug them into an interface, or a USB mic. That's what they were designed for. They're actually good for what they're designed to do. And that's be for competitive gamers like me. I'm sorry you guys can't hear the difference Gonna post this one reddit, so if you see this there, it's not a copy paste.

[@meek4393]

Hey there, read your comment, I'm not an audiophile (yet?) but I'm new to IEMs, currently using the Corsair Virtuoso XT for all around gaming and headset, it costs $280 bucks at the time and I dont usually spend moolah on this kind of things, but Tarkov made me do it, I gotta have good gear to enjoy games like this. I'm looking at the Moray to be my first IEM, would you recommend this? Will this be ok as well as an all around daily output source (music, movies, gaming, YT videos, twitch), I'm not looking into spending so much I know audiophile gears are pricey. thanks!

[@ToreOnYouTube]

Writing this before watching. I love the design of them. I want the casing with a great driver!

[@victorfranca85]

I just got a cable from linsoul for my 10 year old e215. Your ad reads work crin. Its purple and fly as hell. All the other audio nerds will be jealous.

[@salbowski3864]

I've never used IEMs but I'm curious if they can provide a wide soundstage? I feel like the historical go-to was an audiophile headphone with a wide soundstage and detailed imaging . Are there IEMs capable of doing this? Again, I've never used IEMs but my brain is saying that seems hard to achieve being crammed in your earhole.

[@xPorkchops007x]

I prefer less bass for gaming because it's fatiguing when you hear the bass from machine guns and nade spam. And what about soundstage and imaging? Frequency response curves aren't everything.

[@wwbren]

It's great for listening to notifications?

[@epicplayer7400]

crinacle is evolving in a more accurate reviews direction!

[@gabrieldominguez6556]

BTW I just bought a set of Hola thanks to your advice and I'm hoping they work for gaming too when they arrive.

[@gabrieldominguez6556]

​@@smark2016​ I'm extremely happy with the Hola, the sound stage is way better than any of my gaming headsets and my friends freak out because I always know where the sounds come from in Apex Legends. I'm waiting for my S9 Pro to get even better music but they sound crazy good just over the 3.5mm jack

[@why_tho_]

btw, can you measure the Tangzu Wan'er SG if you get the chance?

[@cabronesse386]

Oddly, I've found this channel for good laugh and chuckles.

[@grozaphy]

Gaming IEM brand, design and competitive advantage probably

[@xMagentOx]

I'm on the "dark" side of sound and I can tell you that when you get used to it, when you try the more "bright" and audiophile earphones, your ears hurt because of the sheer amount of treble they have. Your ears get used to earphones with "less details", but you can still hear the details in the "dark" sound.

[@its_dionology]

Bought the Moondrop Sparks last year. Still love it till this day except comfort (that's a nightmare)

[@miagi1337]

Actually this IEM has a pretty good special localisation quality. But for me the upper frequency bump was actually very fatiguing. To the point that I had to mute some games in the menus because it was bombarding me with high frequency effects. In the end I couldn't stand it and had to sell it unfortunately because the localisation of sounds and enemies was nice. But imo they are also a bit too expensive for what they are.

[@Jiangcool9]

I really want to see crinacle try skullcandy crusher headphones.

[@Danielduel-]

Okay, so... you got my attention mr IEM guy. I am playing a lot of Beat Saber, a vr "rythm" game, vr headset has a jack and speakers on hmd aren't that great. What would you consider an ultimate rythm games IEM?

[@PurpleShift42]

This sounds like a great video idea! (My rhythm game of choice is Crypt of the NecroDancer.) I wonder, would you want a tuning that's better for music than the sort of V shape Crin mentions?

[@Danielduel-]

Not sure. With the case of Valve Index (beforementioned vr headset) - it's speakers are great and comfortable for most applications (I would consider them quite good for a music-based game), but I notice a ton of difference in how many layers there are after I rehear the song after the vr session on my normal headphones.

[@ki_wi_8525]

Greatest critic on Yt. Love the reviews. 👍

[@thegift6749]

the ending was masterful

[@challengeronrift]

Great. So comfortable to wear. Is about it for this pair. 👍 Will stick with truthear hexa

[@r34telletubies29]

there are things the gaming lable can be applied to such as a mouse(weight and sensors being important) monitor(refresh rate and other thngs) mouepads(due to design size texture material etc.) but things such as iem's headphones keyboards and such dont mean anything when put the gaming label on them i have 50$ "gaming" headphones that i got because the sound wasnt terrible and the mic was actually good and they get beat by moondrop because i can genuenly pinpoint the location of a sound with them the only thing they are worse at is the mic quality

[@simyou1219]

Another point I think is missed when it comes to gaming is soundstage and imaging, because it's obviously good to know where sounds are coming from. IEMs in general kind of fall short in this just because of their being IEMs. Headphones accomplish what IEMs do in this regard for a fraction of the price. But of course, if you want the comfort that comes with good IEMs and you're willing to pay for it then I digress. But maybe make mention of it next time.

[@TalesOfGod]

He already has an entire guide on this but people seem to miss it.

[@simyou1219]

@@TalesOfGod i meant for THESE IEMs specifically. He says nothing about the soundstage or imaging for THESE EIMs

[@TalesOfGod]

@@simyou1219 For good reason as the vast majority of IEMs are bad to mediocre, 90% of them (particularly at this price point) will just be in the same section so there is no need to waste time on it. Again, he has already mentioned this before. The only time that he does mention it is when they perform slightly better in one department, as opposed to the reviewers who claim that every single option is different (when they sound the same in these categories). That's why people have been so critical at "gaming" IEMs (as is covered in the video).

[@simyou1219]

@@TalesOfGod sure, fair point. But still, you could easily just say that very briefly and that would suffice, no? Assuming everyone is on the same page isn't very accurate.

[@pedrofernandes3381]

went from razer headphones to kz iems and boy oh boy i can hear things in tarkov like i never could

[@MissOaky]

Damnit Crin with your song lyric descriptions.

[@ax356]

Thanks for the review, I've been thinking about investing in some wired IEMs or earbuds for long hours but I want good sound, thabks for the heads up! Do you have any you really recommend?😊

[@yorxxx]

For when a video about Kz? I feel it would be interesting to see your point of view of Kz and his history. Something that I think would help everyone who is starting in the world of iem and you could also leave your opinion about some models. IT WOULD BE GREAT.