Razzle Dazzle Camouflage

[@Voltage362436]

Can't help but appreciate the ingenious irony of making a ship harder to strike by making it easier to see.

[@aserta]

Human mind man, human mind.

[@SlumsofCalabasas]

@@aserta more like human eye man, human eye

[@twinkyoctopus]

honestly dazzle camouflage was basically the first attempt at jamming the enemy fire control

[@JoshuaTootell]

Mark I Eyeball @@twinkyoctopus

[@Ugly_German_Truths]

A bit like the irony that any similar measure like Stealth will always by necessity be oriented at YOUR OWN capability to detect things as you cannot reliably predict how the enemyÄs systems work until you're in combat with them and find out...

[@joshuariddensdale2126]

Dazzle camo wasn't nearly as prevalent in WW2 as it had been, but it still existed. Especially on Ranger, which spent 44 and 45 in her dazzle scheme, but spent the majority of the war in Measure 22. Dazzle was also used more so in the Atlantic than the Pacific. It wasn't uncommon for ships to be repainted when transferring theaters. Like Alabama and Massachusetts, which were originally in Measure 12 but later repainted to 22.

[@johngregory4801]

And on USS North Carolina. She's still in it.

[@colbeausabre8842]

You've got it reversed, MS22 was the standard Atlantic Fleet camouflage ("(This measure was used in the Atlantic and European coastal waters from the end of 1942 through the end of World War II, and was often referred to as "Atlantic two-tone." )with MS16 used for ships operating in the Arctic, with dazzle and patterned measures being used in the Pacific ("On 15 September 1943 the South Pacific command adopted the dazzle measures for all ships;. In October the Pacific Fleet officially adopted the dazzle measures for most of its remaining ships) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_ship_camouflage_measures_of_the_United_States_Navy#Improved_measures_from_combat_experience

[@jonathanjones3623]

I'm inclined to concur with you Joshua but like I mentioned in some of Ryan's other videos it's a shame that neither of the Iowa's are in their World War II configuration or appearance and that's a whole other can of worms but you know it's certainly been discussed on the ships I visited Missouri Wisconsin and New Jersey. The Iowa is the only one I've never been aboard that neither ship looks it like it did during the second world war and a whole other conversation of to what extent there should be some restoration but I am of the opinion that especially with Missouri being the side of the surrender paint being constantly touched up they could put the Missouri or the New Jersey and measure 22 it wouldn't change anything you're not throwing anything away you're not altering Fabrics material or structure what me and my family visited Missouri the staff there had conveyed that she had been through a yard upgrade refurbishment especially before they shot that movie Battleship that there were some discussion of whether or not to repaint the ship and measure 22. I mean it wouldn't be a complete restoration but I think it would absolutely boost visitation of the battleships if their wartime appearance were mimicked at least with the paint it has to be reapplied anyway and I asked the same volunteer I think his name was Jeremy why didn't they just repaint the shipping measure 22 and he said I believe there's some resistance among the brass to ask the Navy for permission to do so which is true in the contract you know you can't change their appearance too much without prior approval so you can't paint the ship's hot pink LOL on a whim but I think the Missouri and the New Jersey specifically should have their hulls repainted that's my opinion I think it would absolutely encourage more visitation the disappointment factor is high especially when we were on Wisconsin people think they're coming to board of World War II era battleship in the are she just she had a career after World War II

[@mathieu4432]

I thaught the camoflage was to make it harder to see the direction the ship was travelling in, at what angle the ship is compared to the subs hunting them.... which would give the ship a chance against torpidoes. It seems to work against me. Its hard to get a firing solution if you are not sure if the ship is sailing at 45° or 90°.

[@actaeon299]

It worked for range, angle on the bow, and such. Not really camouflage, but more confusion. Even if you are determining range as a product of target height/width , using info from your ship's data book and your stadimeter.

[@notme123123]

I read it was also make it harder to judge speed and size of ship.

[@matthewalker]

That's how I understand it. With the silhouette broken up, it's harder to determine a ship's course.

[@BGraves]

Not to mention Identifying what type of ship it is to begin with

[@actaeon299]

@@BGraves yup. Since you're looking for easily recognizable stuff like, gun turrets, funnel/stacks, cranes, bow style, etc.

[@jaykaufman9782]

Great info on coincidence versus stereoscopic range finders, with references to the Battle of Jutland. I knew about dazzle cammo, now I understand a lot more! Thanks!

[@craigtupper103]

Love how it looks on the City/Halifax class of the RCN!

[@nashleysk8er]

His Majesty’s Canadian Ship (that still sounds weird) Regina FFH-334 was pained in a "dazzle camouflage" colour scheme to commemorate the 75th anniversary of the Battle of the Atlantic.

[@wyattroncin941]

Yup, there's been some talk of potentially doing up the whole fleet in dazzle paint schemes. The light grey Canada uses blends in really well on a horizon, but the Reg looks damn good in colour.

[@Ganiscol]

Just because it makes a warship look sleek, "camouflage" got to come back! Go crazy with it! Paint angry eyes and a mouth on the bow, like the aviators do! 😏

[@chrissouthgate4554]

I have a book (somewhere) from around the 70-80’s about Dazzle Camouflage. It has a collection of photos of an US test of different schemes, mostly a series of arcs increasing from stern to bow. They make the ship look as though it is heading slightly towards you, (starboard Quarter?). You realize that this is entirely a paint effect when you read the caption of the photos & find that they are a series of flat card silhouettes & not ships at all!

[@colinprice712]

The Imperial War Museum (Lambeth) had a display cabinet of merchant ships - in convoy - all dazzle painted. From above, the course of the ships was obvious, but as you came down to sea level (periscope view) if was really difficult to determine the convoy course as the ships all appeared to have different headings. For a submarine, this would mean extended observations with a greater risk of the periscope being detected. Most German raiders were neutralised early on

[@bebo4374]

Many allied crewmen went insane due to the dazzle patterns painted on ships. The HMS Blemish lost most of her crew this way.

[@bikes02]

@@bebo4374 You sure you have the correct name for this ship because google brings nothing up

[@J-1410]

@@bebo4374 What ship? Nothing comes up with that name?

[@bebo4374]

It was Tarnish class flotilla tender.

[@termitreter6545]

I dont think the course of a convoy would be hard to tell. Dazzle-camo or not, you got a formation you can go off.

[@Supersean0001]

One thing that comes to mind was with Bismarck and Prinz Eugen in Operation Rheinübung in WW2. The silhouettes for the two ships were very similar, though Bismarck was obviously much larger. When they first sailed from Germany, Bismarck had a kinda-sorta dazzle scheme with black-and white bands in three places mostly amidships, along with a fake bow wave painted just a little ahead of Turret Anton (the #1 turret). Later in Norway the black and white bands were painted over but the fake bow wave left in place. During the operation the British had a number of instances of confusing one German ship for the other, even though they were tracking them both on radar, and in fact in the Denmark Strait HMS Hood mistakenly identified the leading German ship as Bismarck, when in fact it was Prinz Eugen, and opened fire on the wrong ship. The combination of similar profiles and the fake bow wave on Bismarck may have played a role in this. Even though the British quickly recognized their error, confusion like this can be critical in any battle. It's still something that may be worth considering even today -- we spot a radar contact, and then look in that direction. The eyeball is still just as subject to being deceived as it was for those British sailors back in 1941.

[@keiranallcott1515]

There’s a story that the Uss leviathan, which was originally the German liner vaterland, was painted in dazzle camouflage, one of the tugs boats had to do a full circle around the ship to see what direction it was going. In regards to dazzle camo today , I am aware that some airforce planes have the digital camo. That might have some utility in todays world with satellite photography. A combination of the dazzle and digital camo might have merit

[@1337flite]

The idea behind digital camouflage is that is works accross a wider range of distances because it "blobs" less. Essentially the pixels them selves form a small camo pattern up cklose and the groups of same cooloured pixels form a lager camo pattern futher away.

[@termitreter6545]

@@1337flite Thats just theory though; most militaries dont use digital camo.

[@hoyks1]

I'd imagine that when viewing the ships from a submarine that doesn't have room in the periscope optics for a range finder it would make a difference. They relied on viewing the target and estimating speed and direction of approach, but when you can't be certain of if the target is approaching, moving away or the visual queues of speed from foam under the bow or what is actually the bow, then it might have helped.

[@markmckinley5989]

Maybe do like u haul and paint based on ship namesake.

[@agenericaccount3935]

You’ll see an evolution of Dazzle (some AI tweaks and whatnot to fiddle with cameras) on pre-market automotive test vehicles.

[@aserta]

Yeah, but those are more ... nuisances than they are effective. We've had several cars that were "divinated" from pictures with camo on top, pretty accurately when compared with the release model. The whole spiel of RDC is it's big. IMO, they'd get more mileage by simply adding foam pads on top. It's not like any kind of aerodynamic test is done on the road these days, it's all computer spat out and maybe tested in a wind tunnel at best. Most modern commercial use cars are shelf parts cars, rarely do you see one that's new and innovative with new components, so there's basically no reason to figure those kinds of things out. The best mechanics for expensive cars are those who can figure out and or adapt the cheaper variant (by price) that's basically exactly the same as the expensive one.

[@agenericaccount3935]

@@aserta neato

[@cclentz]

What a nightmare it would've been looking at a tight group of ships overlapping in foreground & background through a periscope. Easy to not see the destroyer headed straight for you with the transport running perpendicular in background.

[@EtzEchad]

I once was visiting Seattle and saw a ship coming in that was painted mist gray. I could barely see the thing! That paint scheme is amazing.

[@xcreeseseater38]

This is the best lesson on the way camouflage works to mess up the image in the viewfinder. I never really knew how the range finders saw the images so it finally makes sense. everyone else always just says its hard to make out when it have dazzle cammo but thats it. You go way more into why and I love it. Your knowledge on military history continues to impress.

[@kanklez]

About six months ago I asked for a video on this in the comments section of another video. I'm glad to finally understand why dazzle was a thing. Think you.

[@jeffreyyoung4104]

There was a type of camouflage that used lights to hide behind when the intensity matched the background brightness. It didn't matter what color the objects being hidden were, as the lights did an excellent job hiding objects from anyone at long distances. The lamps were small incandescent lamps used in most houses at the time. The ones I saw were on a grid that held them off the ground, and at an even spacing. It was extremely effective! It wouldn't have taken much to add the system to large objects, but I believe radar killed most visual camouflage used then.

[@jonbridge8064]

The Yehudi lights. trialled on aircraft also

[@stevennelson9504]

I don't know about dazzle, but I can say that the Haze Grey used by the US Navy does blend into the horizon more than other colors.

[@StarGazer568]

It was also somewhat effective against submarine and aerial torpedo attacks. Estimating the orientation of a ship so painted made it more difficult to estimate heading, which would require a harder look. A poorer estimate of the heading meant a larger error in the firing solution of the torpedo. Moreover, the longer a periscope was above the surface, the more likely it would be detected.

[@axtmann]

Anyone interested in museum ships should lobby to bring back dazzle camouflage, even if it doesn't work. A warship is a net drain on national resources, so if it at the very least becomes an enormous canvas for unique artwork, there can be a greater argument for cultural preservation after it reaches the end of its useful life imposing hegemony.

[@1337flite]

Or just let people write graffitti on them? :-)

[@jedironin380]

I've seen many B&W pictures of these, I always wondered what colors they had, if any. Thanks for the extra color pictures! With so many new cars offering grey paint colors (pavement colored to me), I've really wanted to paint one of them with this pattern! 😆

[@JO-ch3el]

Definitely bring it back, it's absolutely fabulous!

[@Johndoe-jd]

You got to give them the old razzle dazzle ( jazz hands) I’ll see myself out

[@Thatguybob5]

Also those who don’t know that the ship on 5:01 is the RMS Olympic (Titanic’s sister) in her 1917 camouflage as a troop transport ship

[@rickschlepphorst6077]

I love these videos. I learn something new all the time on this channel. Thank you for doing them!

[@dougsundseth6904]

In an atmosphere, the longest range is achieved at an elevation somewhere around 35°. Air drag does not allow for a true elliptical (note, not parabolic, which is actually impossible) path for a shell.

[@samthemultimediaman]

because the dazzle camo was only meant to cripple range finders i think that type of camo is useless these days with laser and GPS triangulation, but a modern digital camo in a water/sky pattern with varying drab and gloss squares would make it hard for visual locating of ships via air or sea.

[@vburke1]

Against a busy background, I could see some sort of a dazzle scheme working fairly well. In a fairly visually uniform environment like out to see, not at all.

[@kimopuppy]

Enemy "Nah Nah you can't see us cause of Razzle Dazzle" As the ship sinks "I thought they could not see us"

[@colbeausabre8842]

The US Army used stereoscopic rangefinders on the M47 series tanks and the M48, M48A1 and early M48A2 tanks before switching to coincidence units on the M48A2C (no prize for figuring out what the C stood for) and on rebuilt early M48's (M48A3 and M48A5). In addition to the factor of operator fatigue (you could end up with a splitting headache), the Army found a fairly large number of people can't operate a stereoscopic rangefinder - their brains aren't wired right. I found that I'm one of those unfortunates. When I was a student at the Armor Officer Basic Course, we were briefly trained on them as some low priority reserve units still had them. Try as I might, I just couldn't do it. My instructor consoled me, "Don't worry Eltee, you're Regular Army, you'll probably never see one of these again" (And I didn't). While they might be OK for Navy which may have only few hundred rangefinders that was one thing, they could accept that a portion of their sailors couldn't use them. But for Armies with thousands of tanks needing an equally large number of rangefinder operators, that was unacceptable so the US Army converted to coincidence units.

[@CH3TN1K313]

110% that modern navies should adopt camo patterns on their surface combat ships. Not only does it help against low tech enemies and even low cost UAV's with only a camera, it offers tremendous pride in a crew and a nation's naval forces to have and maintain their unique camo patterns. Something that is sorely missing from modern militaries.

[@tomhenry897]

Don’t some navies have a digital pattern

[@chinocracy]

I'm reminded of how this kind of camouflage inspired the 1980s Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark album Dazzle Ships.

[@31dknight]

Another great video from the battleship. Thanks

[@jamieshardlow1486]

Ah, so that's how direction finders work! Very informative, thanks!

[@HereticalKitsune]

From what I have seen dazzle camo also makes it hard to judge the bearing of a ship as all the lines usually used get totally messed up. No clue how much that goes into fire solutions, tho. I'd love to see more ship camo, tho! It just... looks "cooler", for lack of a better word.

[@cleverusername9369]

Interestingly, this strategy is used in nature. Consider the zebra: they look like they would stand out in the African plains, right? But as herd animals, their black and white stripes are useful to confuse predatory animals, lions, leopards, etc. If they're all fleeing in different directions, it's hard to get a lock on to just one zebra when all you see is a mass of black and white stripes going every which way. Kind of similar with dazzle, it's hard to lock onto something when you can't tell where the hell it's going. It's not camouflage, per se, but it achieves the same end.

[@wesleyshirley326]

I would love to see one painted in the colors of the great white fleet.

[@inyobill]

The grey color of an object at range blends into whatever background there is, rendering it visually invisible.

[@cf453]

I made a coincidence rangefinder in Stormworks, and it was surprisingly accurate (sub 0.5%) when i verified it with a laser. If anything, dazzle camo would have made it easier to use, because when you're washing out the parallax error, you're trying to sharpen hard edges.

[@gregblount6640]

Ty Ryan for you you do inspire history seeking for many of us what about air brush pater of water camp up to hull and spatter Camo sky colors on top off ship a blend of brim to top fade if you will saw BB 60 and USS Drum better than any ride in Florida Disney Universal or any theme park Tharp can’t compare they simply don’t have the history that hits you mentally to get the scope as to the millions of peeps involved on grand land and sea continent to continent ty Ryan for the perspective and your compassion . FulL sod ahead

[@triple7988]

I've want a motorcycle in a dazzle scheme but i'm pretty sure no one sees me on the road as is.

[@johngregory4801]

Once you ride as if no one sees you, the color of your ride is irrelevant.

[@ryancook6452]

A cafe racer in a razzle scheme would look dope

[@johngregory4801]

@@ryancook6452 I'll take an '07 ZX-10R in dazzle, please! Love those twin undertail pipes.

[@ryancook6452]

@@johngregory4801 I was more thinking something like the new t100s as I don't think having angular paint over an already heavily angled plastics would be all that good on the eye but yeah I guess it could work.

[@johngregory4801]

@@ryancook6452 Or a Guzzi V7.

[@kristoffermangila]

Dazzle camo also was used experimentally on tanks in WW2. In World of Tanks, there's a camo scheme for desert maps in a dazzle pattern from British tanks.

[@philipgarmonsway7457]

The Caunter scheme.

[@scottsmith2052]

I understand that a few ships in WWII were actually painted solid pink. The logic was that for most encounters, the paint color didn't make a bit of difference, so pink didn't hurt anything. However, the pink gave a huge tactical advantage in certain lighting conditions, right around dawn I believe.

[@alancranford3398]

It might be possible to adopt a configurable camouflage system. Lighting up parts of the ship can change its apparent size and shape. Coloration can be changed or even parts of the ship covered with liquid crystal displays or light emitting diodes. The IR signature can be changed--with night vision and thermal imaging as common as radar, this can spoof sensors. Don't forget that acoustic and electromagnetic signatures exist--and can be modified. Imagine a warship that can run a light show and then shut off and run dark. Razzle dazzle set to your favorite theme song!

[@Meh4354]

Cool! We visited the ship American Victory in Tampa, she has this kinda paint now

[@aserta]

I love the RDC! It's the funniest thing ever. I wish i could see a battleship in real life, sporting such a pattern.

[@JeffBilkins]

In WW2 the allies developed secret project codenamed the 'Canal Defence Light' that mounted bright flashing lights on modified tanks, with a frequency that makes it difficult for the human eye to adjust or accurately guess the distance. Apparently it worked really well in testing and vehicles were actually deployed, but it was so super secret it wasn't used properly.

[@mbloy613]

Range is just one element of a firing solution, you also need to calculate where the enemy will be when your weapon load lands (be it shell fire or slower travelling torpedoes). Therefore to score a hit, you also need to factor in (relative) course and speed. The dazzle paint scheme makes it more difficult and confusing to optically determine the target’s true course (specially so for submarines hunting down a surface ship based on intermittent glimpses of the enemy through a periscope that’s fairly low to the water line). Razzle-dazzle (combined with steering a zig-zag course) simply attempts to make things more perplexing for any attacker.

[@lightningwingdragon973]

Hell yeah. Pretty ships FTW! Let's give em all a little razzle dazzle.

[@deadendfriends1975]

The best paint scheme !

[@barrydysert2974]

my vote goes to a return of the Great White Fleet paint scheme complete with gold prow decorations !:-) 🙏💜⚡️

[@hypergolic8468]

The best comment of the day 4:50 "... the clouds that are perpetually over the North Sea..." and yet we still go on holiday to the cold, over cast North Sea coast and call it "Bracing" 😂😂

[@johnsykesiii1629]

Dazzle might work somewhat today on modern ships that have radar stealth technology incorporated and therefore must be ranged and tracked by traditional optical means. Especially LCS ships.

[@wyattroncin941]

Ships with radar countermeasures aren't like stealth bombers. You can still track them up on radar, they're just harder to notice. The zumwalts are easier to spot on radar with crew on the upper decks, but you can still spot them if you're looking.

[@Surfcityham]

I have a number of Black and White photographs my grandfather took of ships in New York harbor with dazzle paint jobs. One is all diagonal white and probably black stripes.I think the photos were taken after the war because there is a photograph of a freighter labeled BELGIAN RELIEF and other photos in the album show US troops with a band marching down wall street.

[@brianb8060]

Razzle-Dazzle... I have a sudden urge to watch the movie, "Stripes".

[@KJ-bv7xb]

The Dazzle camo looks good, but no one should expect it to save their lives. Still, it's more interesting than plain ol' grey..

[@randybentley2633]

The Royal Navy has done up an offshore patrol vessel, the HMS Tamar, in Dazzle camouflage. With how subdued it is I just can't bring myself to add the 'Razzle' to it

[@AtomicBuffalo]

Fizzle Dazzle

[@randymagnum143]

Juggalo face paint for your ship!

[@rogersmith7396]

Camoflage was also used to make vessel type ID more difficult. It was used to confuse submarines as to speed and direction of a ship. Some had fake bow waves painted. I have seen pictures of South Dakota class ships in WWII with camoflage. Radar is not fooled by it. Tanks still have camo but radar ID is not in widespread use by armies. They do use IR and laser range finders. Are working on active defense against missles and projectiles.

[@Huntress236]

Personally, I think we should go back to the old Great White Fleet paint scheme. White hull, ocre superstructure and black barrels. I just think it look nicer.

[@dave8599]

I want the gold shield and sculpture work on the bow like they used to have.

[@Shadooe]

HMCS Moncton and HMCS Regina got dazzle schemes a few years ago for the 75th Anniversary of the Battle of the Atlantic. Whether or not it did anything back then, and would be completely irrelevant now, they sure looked cool.

[@DavidPirouet]

Like zebra is if you have reception close formation it makes it hard to pick out an individual ship but that would be bad practise because armed ships would have firing arc restricted and damage ones could collide with undamaged ones, or parts flying off. So the thing is about a convoy you have to be in a easy to protect pattern but not that if you are fired at it's easier to hit something.

[@williamlloyd3769]

Is USS Texas (BB-35) going to be repainted in the current blue-grey color or a different shade of grey during her current dry docking maintenance period?

[@johndougan6129]

I ask them that and they said she will keep the measure 21 scheme.

[@minarchist1776]

Simple Haze Gray is surprisingly effective at hiding a ship against the horizon at sea. I suspect it might be somewhat less effective if the ship was close to shore and the vessel attacking it was farther out to sea. However, that would likely be an exception and not the rule. Alas my organic memory storage device is letting me down, but I recall reading that someone had observed both British and American ships escorting the vessel they were on. The British dazzle camo was much easier for them to see than the Haze gray American ships.

[@ericlakota1847]

It's amazing I really have hard time knowing what I'm looking at some time is it front or rear or side

[@billkallas1762]

In modern combat against small attack ships without radar, a camouflaged image of a smaller ship, painted on the side of a frigate sized ship, might help to confuse an enemy, in night attacks.

[@pizzaivlife]

I prefer the down periscope method of disguising yourself as a fishing trawler

[@otm646]

What military/insurgent vessel doesn't have radar? You haven't seen those radar arches on 20' ribs?

[@cl4998]

Combat shipsb"without radar " don't exist

[@fastway007]

Interesting video, keep’em coming.

[@PixelmechanicYYZ]

Wasnt another point of some dazzle patterns to make it more difficult to tell (for at least a moment) which end of the ship was which? Ie. Confuse the spotters as to which direction the ship was heading?

[@Philistine47]

Another idea was to disguise the size of a ship, for example by painting a fake bow wave well astern of the actual bow so the ship would appear to be significantly smaller.

[@dave8599]

Yet another trick was to paint a fake bow wave on the stern to reverse direction! or fake bow wave amid ship to make ship appear shorter.

[@kenfury2441]

That worked for all of ten seconds until you see the smoke and mast direction.

[@robertgarrett5009]

One of the new River class Royal navy ships has been painted in Dazzle camouflage just recently.

[@paulbervid1610]

Ryan great video.

[@jamespinkerton7534]

Dazzle camouflage actually came from music hall illusionists. It's major fault for ships was that it had to be shiney and not dull. That is why most WW2 Western approaches ships ended up Peter Scott duck camouflage as the ships were difficult to keep freshly painted. One of the problems of dazzle camouflage is that it does not work with colour blind people and why it seems wrong in black and white photos. In most cases the dazzle is not trying to confuse the range finder but what the eye sees.

[@matyasslavik8657]

The RN has some nicely coloured ships. That said we need more ships with Dazzle camouflage.

[@thurin84]

i think razzle paintschemes just look cool. adapted it to paint a mini for a game i play called "battletech" (giant stompy robot tanks). it looks sweet.

[@LoPhatKao]

mechs in dazzle camo is an amazing mind image, thanks :D

[@dynamicworlds1]

Especially for long range mechs and when there's a lot of ECM and sensors being incorporated it makes a degree of sense too. Doubly so if there are sensors that can detect the direction of active mech reactors but not accurately give you distance.

[@ewathoughts8476]

Vertical masts defeat all the camo schemes. Just line up the mast as they did when the hull was down below the horizon. Making smoke after being discovered is how you hide the masts from the range finders. Making smoke before you have been discovered is counter productive.

[@Folap]

I believe Japanese ships in WW2 would use different colored smoke on their shells for target tracking. Can you do a video on that?

[@michaelsommers2356]

I believe a number of navies did that. It helped distinguish shells from different ships when they were firing at the same target.

[@Philistine47]

Still probably worth a video sometime.

[@nonna_sof5889]

It wasn't smoke, but dye that would change the color of the water spout. "The Final Hour" by C.G. Evers illustrates the effect nicely. Unfortunately I'm not aware of a color photo of them.

[@paulamos8970]

The main thing in the second world war dazzle schemes is giving false bow waves & patterning that can make determination of the direction a distance hard. As you said by then the dazzle was more subdued with only slightly contrasting overall effects & in poor light and or patchy mist makes visual identification very difficult. I personally like the schemes after all it ha no effect on radar and would make warships a lot more interesting to look at in a port than the standard grey.

[@loficampingguy9664]

Not sure about dazzle schemes, but it'd be cool to see something like a Burke or Ford in Measure 21 or 22 schemes. Bonus points for a ship in Measure 1. Something about that famous photo of Maryland alongside the sunken Oklahoma looks intimidating, like you can see her size and anger with the way she stands out against the smoke.

[@ut000bs]

Personally, I always wanted to see an Ageis cruiser in Measure 21. Of course I still want to come paint the New Jersey in ms 21 again, too. ⚓

[@jimfleming3975]

Razzle - Dazzle! Boom chukaluka, Boom chukaluka, Boom chukaluka, BOOM!

[@brianlyon3783]

Any good guides or videos on how these different range finders worked?

[@Jimorian]

Drachinifel has a video on the subject. Search: Range-finding and Fire Control - Plotting Your Demise

[@mykofreder1682]

It would be fun to bring it back. If you dazzle painted ships with similar patterns, increasing the size as the ship gets bigger it might be difficult to differentiate ships at long range, a jeep carrier at a closer range could look like a fleet carrier at a longer range. It increases the chance of a Yamato mistake of seeing fleet carriers and cruisers instead of jeep carriers and destroyers through binoculars.

[@sskues1]

i like the look of them. its not necessary for protection so it'll come down to cost

[@Erpyrikk]

the bismarck did sail with a couple of contrasting lines with the same idea.

[@realn_c]

For no other reason than aesthetic appeal, bring on the modern day dazzle!

[@1337flite]

The USN can't even afford to paint it's ships while deployed these days. I can't imagine that they would splash out on loolking cool. Then again they do splash out on "camo" uiforms, so who knows.

[@dave8599]

On D Day the aircraft had invasion stripes painted on them, black and white stripes. This made them easily recognizable as NOT german aircraft.

[@1337flite]

And in WWII Australian aircraf had the central red spot taken out of their rondels so they only had a blue outer ring and a white inner circle because some people only saw the red spot of the original roundels and shot at them thinking they were Japanese aircraft Thus starting or continuing the great American tradition of shooting at their friends and allies. I guess that's why for D-Day all the allies adopted the US national insignia. If you can't train them, join them?!!!??!???

[@davidgardner863]

The dazzle scheme was also tried on a few PT boats. I don’t know what they expected to accomplish. Maybe it was to simulate a herd of zebras.

[@juliankremer1900]

Wasn't the Tirpitz's paint scheme razzle-dazzle?

[@thomasmcgehrin4205]

Look at USS Olympia across the river.. like you said, with radar you don't even need to "see" the ship. Paint the fleet in the "Great White Fleet" colors!!!!

[@billloutzenheiser5397]

more dazzle-dazzle, it still works fine on spoters who are using a binocular

[@jameslackiejr5913]

I'd go with the Cloak of Visibility. Worked for the Klingons.

[@foo-foocuddlypoops5694]

Ships should absolutely return to Dazzle camouflage if for no other reason than it looks cool - as proven with the River Class and others.

[@johndougan6129]

USS Slater(de766) looks great but so does USS Texas(bb35). They're probably the most opposites of the camouflage spectrum, at least among US museum ships. I like measure 21. Haze grey is just blah.

[@clydecessna737]

In nature a lion attacks a herd of zebras but has difficulty focusing on a single one as the stripes of one animal are confused with the others when they intermingle when galloping; the lion tires and abandons the chase IF the herd stays together. As soon as one zebra separates the dazzle camouflage no longer works.

[@APV878]

Interesting, I didn't know about the different sighting apparatus used by the Allies vs Germans in WW1. Yet, the Germans develop "Lozenge" camo for aircraft , designed to fool the eye and blend in the with background. And then that developed of course into "Splinter" camo in WW2. I dunno, I've always liked the different camo patterns and colors used over the years. I like seeing distinctive and creative colors and camo patterns more than boring all-gray

[@acester86]

Some of the schemes help to mask what kind of ship you are looking at, and i could see it being hard to track in a zig zag manuver it would be hard to track their heading.

[@kanrakucheese]

From what I've heard, 45 degrees being needed for maximum distance is actually a myth, since in reality you'll be operating in atmosphere. That means you want something closer to 40 since longer flight time=more time for air resistance and lower arcs mean less.

[@slimeydon]

The littorals need all the help they can get

[@edw9870]

What kind of ice impact (if any) is the new jersey rated for?

[@Knight6831]

the dazzle camo is more useful in WW1 than it is WW2 given aircraft and radar

[@tomhenry897]

German subs didn’t have radar