Sam Harris on the Illusion of Free Will

"Everything is determined, the beginning as well as the end, by forces over which we have no control. It is determined for the insect as well as the star. Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune, intoned in the distance by an invisible piper." ~ Albert Einstein

[@utah133]

I'm watching this due to a long chain of prior causes, over which I had no control .

[@markk9123]

rationalguy that’s old

[@g13n79]

twat

[@johntu1967]

That's right... it's called the Google Algorithm

[@Yuki-rh1ie]

@@TheCeroak care to present any evidence?

[@juansalto7457]

@@TheCeroak even then some level of wisdom is required...which by no means came through free will

[@Raskolnikovvvvvv]

Told my law lecturer this today... everyone laughed. But it is fine, they couldn't choose otherwise.

[@KevinLancasterify]

You got it,,,

[@czar2074]

Damn.

[@onefodderunit]

They couldn't control their laughter because the notion is comical. Sam Harris want's you to believe that matter makes every one of your decisions, matter creates your ideas, matter feels your emotions, matter sets your goals, matter dreams dreams while you sleep then stores them so you can remember them after you wake.

[@abdulaziz203]

@@onefodderunit That's what's so amazing about it. If you wanna learn more about how plain old matter 'thinks', look into how brain injuries affect people's consciousness. kzbin.info/www/bejne/imetd4ejhqh5fsk&ab_channel=StephenO%27Regan

[@onefodderunit]

@@abdulaziz203 You atheistically believe that matter is creative. A television set processes a signal. If the TV is damaged it may stop processing correctly. The signal remains unaffected. Name something which you atheistically believe to be a known creation of matter. What is it?

[@2TheAbbeyClinic]

The Zen people have nailed it: "You can do as you wish, but you cannot wish as you wish."

[@giuffre714]

W.J. Kelly That was awesome!

[@rshiva08]

This is good!

[@salonen5]

Zen nailed lots of things.

[@openmind2464]

You dont have to wish as you wish to have free will. The error is a false view of free will.

[@adult2370]

pinning this here, i like your comment @timwins31

[@jasonfrederick1258]

Man is truly free when he realizes that he is not free. All of the great achievements in life were accomplished by individuals who felt compelled by something within them they knew not what.

[@christianhadden6720]

in irony lies the key

[@Slaughterproof]

Sounds like an excuse to either not do something moral or to be unsuccessful. "welp, sorry, I'm a product of my environment, nature AND nurture!"

[@Jonny-eu7le]

​​@@Slaughterproof sounds like you're on board with free will.

[@MrQuadcity]

Free will is an illusion and here is the argumentation: From the lense of neuroscience: Marcus Du Sautoy (Professor of Mathematics at the University of Oxford and the Simonyi Professorship for the Public Understanding of Science) participates in an experiment conducted by John-Dylan Haynes (Professor at the Bernstein Center for Computational Neuroscience Berlin) that attempts to find the neurological basis for decision making. Short summary: The experiment explores the relationship between free will, decision-making, and brain activity. Marcus Du Sautoy participates in an experiment in Berlin where they have to randomly decide to press either a left or right button. Brain scans and computer records track when the decision is made in the brain and when the button is physically pressed. The results reveal that up to six seconds before Marcus Du Sautoy consciously makes a decision, their brain has already made that choice. Specific patterns of brain activity can even predict which button will be pressed. This finding challenges the notion of free will, suggesting that unconscious brain activity significantly shapes our decisions before we become consciously aware of them. The experiment also delves into the nature of consciousness. It argues against dualism-the idea that the mind and brain are separate entities. Instead, it posits that consciousness is an aspect of brain activity. The unconscious brain activity is in harmony with a person's beliefs and desires, so it's not forcing you to do something against your will. Marcus Du Sautoy finds the results shocking, especially the idea that someone else can predict their decision six seconds before they are consciously aware of making it. The experiment raises profound questions about the nature of free will, consciousness, and the deterministic mechanisms that may govern our decisions. From the lense of pysics: In order to question the belief in free will, one can conduct experiments and contemplations. Take an action you are convinced you performed and reverse-engineer it until you realize you had no control over it. This leads to the conclusion that all actions in life are the same, and the notion of claiming ownership falls away, so free will is non-existent. By 'reverse-engineering an action,' I mean tracing back the steps that led you to make a specific decision. Upon close examination, you'll find that your choice was influenced by a series of past events and conditions over which you had no control, and that your choice didn't originate from a single point. One could argue that everything originates from the Big Bang, making us essentially biological robots. This realization may prompt you to reconsider how much 'free will' you actually possess, as your actions are shaped by factors beyond your control, both in the past and likely in the future as well. So you can summarize everything is a happening according to cosmic laws.

[@joncoda365]

So basically a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.

[@victortobias6948]

This is what Rocky said before he fought a Martian on Mars.

[@jpmorgan187]

"Man's gotta eat" -Randy

[@RuDaRyda]

Kehnai Bohnyu has to

[@Yogakshema_vahamyaham]

He will end up doing it.

[@dolam]

Summed up perfectly 👍🏼

[@baconair]

Free will is an illusion, because all our supposed choices are determined by our likes and dislikes. And we don't choose our likes and dislikes. Easy as that.

[@SleeperCalais]

The illusion of choice. I often feel like a soul that's along for a ride in this awful and beautiful world. My best moments are completely absent of self awareness. A hilariously timed fart also brings me much joy.

[@tsb7911]

You are truly enlightened.

[@counterculture10]

Enlightened.

[@George.Andrews.]

I think a fart was the first thing humans laughed at . The birth of humour, mabe. For many, it might be the last thing they laugh at.

[@kevlarkittens]

sam harris changed my life. i dont understand why people resist this idea either. it is profoundly calming.

[@giuffre714]

Because they don't have a choice.

[@raffaelalima7126]

Youre not resisting this idea, you realize it's false.

[@raffaelalima7126]

@@giuffre714 Then why the lecture? Your comment is self refuting

[@giuffre714]

@@raffaelalima7126 "Why the lecture?" Because he didn't have a choice. Your mind is like a scale, you will always do what wieghs the most. In this case the desire to give a lecture outweighed the desire to stay silent on the subject. 😀

[@xsuploader]

@@giuffre714 this guy gets it ^^^^^^

[@Alsatiagent]

"of course we have free will. We have no choice in the matter": C. Hitchens.

[@giuffre714]

He had no choice but to say that.

[@RaihandiAlFayedz]

@@giuffre714 the change of feeling is the change of destiny.

[@giuffre714]

@@RaihandiAlFayedz True that : )

[@arpitthakur45]

@@RaihandiAlFayedz but the change of feeling is destiny

[@RaihandiAlFayedz]

@@arpitthakur45 destiny can be changed by destiny too

[@greaseitandsqueezeit]

I don't see a red pill and a blue pill to choose between, I see a blue peanut M&M and a orange peanut M&M and I will eat them both, and most of the bag if I find it.

[@watch3r1]

Hahahaha great comment dude. You win the internets today.

[@worldshaper1723]

Very smart comment. You are a perfect reflection of our generation today.

[@stlkngyomom]

Red/white Degeneration?

[@joblow9752]

First.. you did pick your parents and the society/culture and race into which you were born into... thus no poverty... therefore that explains all. As there are spirit races, there are humans races... Not all is equal. For everything physical on this planet, there is a congruent energy/spirit/race.... we are the lowest forms - hence why humanity is so pathetic

[@Imadeity2]

Lol

[@leticiap.2881]

"With or without free will, beliefs have consequences"

[@KevinLancasterify]

This argument is beyond the concept of belief,,, is whatever one believes is the product of causality... meaning the choices, decisions and even beliefs are mere product of chaotic causality...

[@Ronin.357]

"With or without will, beliefs have consequences" How is that statement not a paradox Of what import can the nature of thought or feeling be when both fated are unchanging you don't ask if stars in sky are catholic or jewish they will be as they have been and only change in the natural course

[@friendsforever5012]

Very true, whatever you do has consequences.

[@friendsforever5012]

Whether your paradigm was conjured up with your brain or was developed through trauma , your beliefs are powerful and make a difference .

[@Mysterychannel12]

@@friendsforever5012 you do not choose your beliefs😉

[@dougiet7314]

Mark Twain “What is man?” He makes a good argument that we are just machines. I believe he also makes a point that we don’t have an original thought. He says we don’t do a single thing ever unless we get something out of it first. For example if we give money to a homeless person it was for the joy of giving or possibly from not feeling the guilt of not giving.

[@kennethkimbroug8087]

I know people who give automatically without thinking twice about it. Not many but I do know some.

[@dougiet7314]

@@kennethkimbroug8087 Yeah. The argument he made was that they wouldn’t do it if they didn’t get something out of it first. Which would be the joy of giving in that case.

[@manaleauxduclaire482]

@@dougiet7314 That is because the incentive comes before the action. we are fundamentally selve serving, even if it's only on an impulsive level.

[@M0rn1n6St4r]

A person encounters even more trouble believing "2 + 2 = 4" in a world full of people who do not agree.

[@mrloop1530]

M0rn1n6St4r You will find more people who disagree, that it eguals 5. Knowledge matters. Even though loads of people will try to convince you otherwise.

[@rafaelmarchanteangulo4582]

oh poor you, you can find consolation by watching Sam Harris on KZbin... there's endless material there.... ah, and keep believing

[@M0rn1n6St4r]

Well... as a wise man once said, while he was high at Dunkin' Donuts, "Civilization is like a donut... the soft, sweet ones get devoured; while the hard, crusty ones survive."

[@jorakardan109]

M0rn1n6St4r mate that is a hell of a comment))))

[@M0rn1n6St4r]

Jora Kardan: Cheers, buddy.

[@louicoleman2910]

I told my friend this. He attempted to prove me wrong by pushing the space bar. I asked him why he wanted to do that. He said to prove me wrong. I said why. He did not know why.

[@16wickedlovely]

Loui Coleman his why was to prove you wrong lol wtf are you talking about lol

[@RPGyourLIFE]

KayJay2017 why did he want to prove him wrong, something internal caused by external experiences that preceded him

[@16wickedlovely]

Reprogram Your Life The “external force” gave the potential to choose, potential is not a causal force his free will chose to prove him wrong.

[@RPGyourLIFE]

KayJay2017 you either see it or you dont. I wont argue with you

[@dreyestud123]

The "why?" question is infinite. Why? Because to every response the questioner can still ask "why?". Why? Because it's the the vague nature of the question of why that people can keep asking "why". Why?.... I think I've made a point. Don't answer those kind of why questions, they are a trap.

[@jasonjackson3114]

My brain is predisposed to both the desire to control and procrastination simultaneously. I'm hoping my brain will do something about it one day.

[@eliVII]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/oGOZdWqNmaekd68

[@skeldrif351]

Yes the choices we make are probably predetermined, I don't think choice necessarily means escaping causality, but is the simple ability to conceptualize two options and see their destinations and weigh the benefits of each. So Choice is more like sight, an awareness of what could be, and the understanding of the probability of what will be.

[@DaneRobinsonMusic]

Dimitri Swords what does this mean for retributive justice?

[@luismorissette6013]

Dimitri yup

[@justspacing9031]

Even you'r choice to think things through and then decide in dddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddjtjktktkdddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddg54oiu584|+5trw34tbfiusejrhtrjyu1,j

[@jimj2683]

Doesn't have to be predetermined if there are truly random processes. But it is definitely causal.

[@alankatb]

Welp i guess im buying that motorcycle this weekend

[@thisslightlysweetlife3402]

Apparently you must. Or not.

[@Drew-jy7dl]

You have the free will to choose my friend

[@mateosmind751]

@@Drew-jy7dl Unfortunately he doesn't and none of us do.

[@eddieking2976]

Saw this right after buying my CBR500R 😅🏍

[@alankatb]

@1234 I did 😉

[@paulq0246]

I was able to follow him till about 7 mins then my brain broke lol

[@TribotBeatbox]

I think you mean and then you got bored.

[@vivaldesque]

Perhaps there is no "free" will, but just "will", the freedom of which depends not so much on itself but on the total amount of forces that tend to confine it.

[@pedroba76]

Interesting position.

[@stephenhogg6154]

Isn't he taking the most hyperbolic version of freewill - that only the most naively unreflective person would ever endorse - and telling us that it is a mistake to call this free? Wow! Thanks for the insight!

[@TreeTopley]

So nothing is my fault after all! And the fact that I didn't do my homework is just bad luck and I couldn't have avoided watching Game of Thrones when I should have been doing it! This is a game changer.

[@iTrustInTheMusic]

Tree Topley what he’s saying is that our actions are dictated by our biological make up and experiences based on those. Meaning all the choices we have are dictated by what was already given to us. We would make whatever choice we have based on this givenness. Moreso our free will is an illusion of free will. All Sam is doing is redefining free will.

[@Hyumanity]

This video pairs well with another of Sam's talk: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bnu2g4ukoLujjtE "Once we recognize that even the most terrifying people are in some basic sense unlucky to be who they are, the logic of hating them, as opposed to merely just fearing them, goes away. So one consequence of viewing the world this way is that it reduces hatred.. it also increases empathy and compassion. You as the conscious witness of your inner life are not making these decisions. You can only witness these decisions. Now some of you might think this sounds very depressing. It seems to take something away from us. It does, it takes away an egocentric view of life. But I think this can be tremendously liberating. We are not truly separate, we are linked to each other and to our past, and to history - we are part of a system, and what we do matters. You can't take credit for your talents, but it matters that you use them. You can't really be blamed for your weaknesses, but it matters that you correct them. So pride and shame don't make a lot of sense in the final analysis... these are isolated emotions. What does make sense is a commitment to well being and to improving your life and the life of others. Love and compassion makes sense."

[@jiohdi]

More importantly its no one elses fault either that you end up living in your parents basement because you did not do your homework and got bad grades. You will always do what is most compelling to you, but unlike computers, your results matter to you and that plays a part in your decision making process that cannot be explained away.

[@Perf401]

I was christian few years ago... but then i realized that free will doesn't exist. Thanks to Jacque Fresco. I realized that concepts of Sin and Faith are stupid. God would know that free will doesn't exist, so he wouldn't punish people. He also would understand why some people refuse to believe in something without evidence. After Fresco's videos i watched Sam Harris... and he helped me to understand how absurd the bible is. I was thinking a lot about free will... and i found that most of the people (i would say almost everyone) don't understand that free will is an illusion. Or they just forget about it sometimes... if they are experiencing emotions like anger/hate. Many people know about cause and effect relationships, but they don't think that human personality and behavior is not exception. And for some people it's hard to admit, because then nobody is a bad person objectively, so everyone who did bad things to you... was just a victim of bad environment . Even if free will doesn't exist, we still shouldn't accept bad behavior, because feelings of animals and people are actually real... and we should prevent people to make bad things to other people. People that are in prison also suffering, that would be good to find a better way to change their behavior, to help them become better people... Some people said to me that free will is not illusion and the reason i think it's illusion is... that im just making excuses of my past mistakes. It's not true. If i truly understand that free will is just an illusion, then i also understand that everything GOOD i did... is also a "chance". My past made me that type of person that can sometimes help other people, as example. I still think that people should feel good about themselves when they are doing something good. And motivate themselves to be a better person. I think that knowledge make me experience much less amount of negative emotions towards other people and myself. Also, i think that I've became a better person after i understood what is "free will" in reality.

[@darrelllogan1274]

Excellent!

[@ed1726]

In summary if free will then carry on and if not free will then carry on.

[@jonaseggen2230]

Ed : ) So short, so nice.

[@ConsumeristScroffa]

Exactly! This knowledge is not necessary applicable in how you act. But if you use it to feel compassion towards people who just weren't lucky to do better, then it can be applicable.

[@Ryanthebrobdingnagian]

Not really. Knowing you live in a Deterministic universe and treating everything as such is important.

[@stephenhogg6154]

@@ConsumeristScroffa Yes, I agree! This 'morality of compassion' does seem like a valuable goal. But how far does the argument against free-will really promote it? Aren't there other ways to approach this ethics of action than a 'dubious' denial of free-will?

[@stephenhogg6154]

​@@Ryanthebrobdingnagian So how are you 'treating everything' 'knowing you live in a Deterministic universe'?

[@Writeous0ne]

the easiest way to comprehend it is this. if i asked you to pick an orange or a banana, do you have a choice? because if i went back in time 30 seconds from now and asked you the same thing again under the same circumstances. pick an orange or a banana, you would pick the same thing because nothing changed in either timeline, the circumstances were identical so theres no reason to suggest that you would choose differently. so if the choice is always the same, then logically, you never had a choice. your choice was predetermined. ps. you probably picked banana...

[@paulkolberg5657]

Philosophically - "Determinism" is logically difficult if not impossible to deny. In the final analysis - what we call 'free will' is the level of consciousness that we achieve - of our understanding of what is already determined. Dualism offers an interesting explanation - if it is correct. Paul.

[@Jason918114]

Why call a certain level of consciousness 'free will' and how do we even know when we get there? I believe we have a degree of will to fight our nature but that degree in itself may be an illusion.

[@paulkolberg5657]

@@Jason918114 Good point. However, I consciously chose to reply in these terms. Paul

[@tomrhodes1629]

Paul, I've been blessed with an "understanding of what is already determined," as my book illustrates. And what most people don't understand is that there is a huge difference between WILL and CHOICE. You can CHOOSE to desire any particular outcome in any particular situation. And maybe that outcome will happen, and maybe it won't. But if you were able to WILL that outcome, it would NECESSARILY come to pass, GUARANTEED! As it turns, we don't have free will, but we do have the power of choice. And the only thing we are choosing, with absolutely every choice that we make, is our DESIRE and our BELIEF. And this is a BINARY function: 1) Do I desire Truth? Or 2) do I desire Truth to be what-I-desire-Truth-to-be? Which is the OPPOSITE of desiring Truth, because this is the desire to LIMIT Truth to my desires. Desire Truth without prejudice and it is given to you. This is the Universal Law of Cause and Effect in action, because your DESIRE is your effective causal ability in this world. And when you learn The Meaning of Life in this world (this world's best-kept secret) this makes perfect rational sense. As for this video, Sam Harris doesn't realize that he is an intelligent bag of contradictions. Because, he believes that we don't have free will, and yet there is no "God." So, exactly who or what's will IS done, Sam? He won't understand until he reads my book, which will never happen in this lifetime. Perhaps in his next life? God's prophet has spoken.

[@patbrennan6572]

I realized a long time ago that I had no choice in being born, therefor free will does exist in my world. All we have are choices..

[@Art3615]

Hold it Patty, free will is choice. In other words, you had no choice in being born but your parents had choice in having sex.

[@sabelch]

@@Art3615 Couldn't they have made the choice to reproduce using a complex yet deterministic process similar to the way a self-driving car chooses to stop at a red light?

[@slothsarecool]

But people aren’t free to choose their belief of determinism :’(

[@lol9334]

Tj Holowaychuk free-Will is an illusion such as the ego, so pretty much yes

[@micahwright6008]

Think about "choices" as paths to take. We have a path to believe in determinism or not to believe in determinism. You cannot choose the path to take but yet you will still pick a path... Which path then will you take? The illusion of decisions is based off of reasoning, and reasoning is based off of experiences. Here's an ecample: If I said the word 'elephant' what coomes to mind? Let's just say you pictured an elephant... How could you have pictured an elephant if you have never seen one before? You couldn't, it would be impossible. If you have never seen an elephant ever in your life, perhaps you would have visualized the very letters: E-L-E-P-H-A-N-T. But the only reasoon you could visualize that is because you were taught how to spell and sound out words. Therefore, if you have not learned words you wouldn't even be able to visualize that... What's my point? The point is, our actions are based on the same reasoning. Every time we face an area where there are multiple paths to take, we take the path based on our previous experiences to determine the best path. What ever path is more reasonable, you will take that path no matter what. It's the same concept of how a computer learns.

[@thisslightlysweetlife3402]

​@@micahwright6008 "You cannot choose the path to take but yet you will still pick a path." Whats the difference?

[@davosholdos1253]

Sure you are

[@luiscarreiro8650]

Every human being marches through life in pursuit of an ideal goal; the person who lives without an ideal carries death on his shoulders.

[@jorgelandell5179]

Sam Harris is one of most influential people in this century.

[@stanleyklein524]

Sad and telling on the value of the world-wide intellectual level of engagement.

[@pedrocols]

Totally disagreed.

[@livingsuccessfullywithdisa7840]

Life is our personal interpretation of chaos.

[@limitless1692]

Like I don't want to mess your 69 Is just a number But it means something elese ....

[@totty2524]

woah, dude

[@bradmodd7856]

It isn't chaos....everything is ordered by strange forces "we all dance to a mysterious tune, intoned in the distance by an invisible piper." Albert Einstein

[@Seasonal-Shadow_4674]

so everything has been bad from the beginning and we are screwed forever

[@theequatableskeptic8148]

Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaan

[@redrum3425]

I resent the fact that I had no choice but to like this!

[@watermelonslushy1110]

Do you also resent the fact that you had no choice in feeling the resentment?

[@timothymcgoldrick2222]

Imagine you are lost and you come to a Crossroads. You are given five choices, one to stay put, one to return, and three destinations as yet unknown. You played no role in the building of the roads. You had no choice in the outcome of their destinations. Yet it is your decision and yours alone that will define your present situation, alter the outcome of your future and add to the foundation of your past. In subtle ways we reach these crossroads many times every day, sometimes obtaining profound results in our decisions. I am not alone in referring to this phenomena as free will. It shapes our lives and adds substance to our being.

[@fromeveryting29]

Yes, but the issue is that each of these choices are determined by former experience. We migh practically have many many choices, but what we base our decisions on are not of our making. It depends on the knowledge we have recieved, our personality, our worldview given to us by our time and place in history, our self-concept informed by our parents in early childhood, our access to different information, our emotional state. All of it. We don't chose where, when or what we are. And those determine EVERYTHING.

[@andycrossfit2101]

Me too. Told my friends yesterday that Past, Ppresent and Future exist at the same time that is NOW. They all laugh outloud :)

[@TheRealKaYnE]

If they didn't laugh, it wouldn't be Tao.

[@pyannaguy]

Sam's right, and he's certainly not the first thinker to recognize the truth about cause-and-effect. Anyone who says, "No free will? You must be kidding; I can do anything I want (within obvious limitations)!" needs to ask themselves: "But, what makes me WANT?" We can "choose" anything from what kind of dressing we want on our salad to a marriage partner, but it should be obvious that this very moment is the current and latest link in a chain of cause-and-effect that goes back farther than we can see and disappears in the dim mists of obscurity. Sure, we'll make decisions both mundane and consequential, but those decisions are a result of our up-bringing, cultural influences, "common sense," and all the rest. I don't find this realization confining or depressing; I find it liberating.

[@7shukur]

pyannaguy What makes u want? Did u lose yourself or ur mind? If this bulshit is treu we can close all prison no one is guilty. You people are threat to peace.

[@pyannaguy]

I didn't say we're snooker balls or robots. Of course we make choices, from what salad dressing you want, to who you decide to pursue romantically. But, again, if you don't think those choices are the result of previous causes, I'm not sure where this dialogue can go. Are you choosing, independently, to breathe, or get sleepy? Do you 'choose' to instantly see a person or image that's sexually attractive?

[@pyannaguy]

It's not metaphysics; it's physics. Will you use your alleged "free will" to not age and die? When you say, for ex: that cultural influence are conditions, not causes - I say you're just mincing words. If you're born to English parents in England - it will CAUSE YOU to speak English. Are you, as a child, going to 'choose' to not speak English? Every effect has a cause. This is basic high school science. It doesn't make people "robots" - it just means they're like everything else in existence. Again - YES, you make choices and decisions - but things CAUSE those choices and decisions. It couldn't be simpler.

[@summertea545]

Wow.....it was going good until you mentioned Harris and then it went downhill all the way.....seems you have a personal problem. Caused by Harris.

[@7shukur]

Sugar Cane She trying to take the blame away from her self, but it just gets more confusing😂

[@leannatimmerman9922]

Sam, several years ago, I saw a PBS documentary about many sets of twins raised separately who meet as adults, not knowing very much about each other. They come to the meeting wearing similar clothes and jewelry and hair styles, have worked in the same industry, the same lifestyles, even have the same lawn furniture. All these choices they thought were conscious choices but their genes made the decisions for them. The implications are huge, seems to me.

[@desbest4]

What's the documentary called?

[@samm1809]

Well, the problem with this is that it is technically useless information, given that it could; a) Conceivably be a series of coincidences (which can't easily be disproven, since there is only 1 case study) b) They were probably raised in the same country, and obviously at the same time, which would mean that they were exposed to similar cultures, lifestyles and so on. Were they raised in the same area? Was there a boom in the industry when they were seeking employment? Did they both have the same physical/personality attribute that happened to be prized in the industry? The problems go on and on. If anything, I don't think anyone would be surprised by similarities between identical twins, but if they aren't identical, then it is probably even more likely to be a string of coincidences. The most important point is that this is not really useful to Sam's argument. It doesn't quite fit the parameters of legitimacy required for an argument based on facts and logic. I don't think anybody in the philosophical free will argument would see it as having 'huge implications'. Additionally, on the matter of their similar clothing, people often choose the clothes that suit them, as opposed to the clothes that they 'like the most', so if 2 people are identical, as well as same culture, age, country, industry etc.... then they are far more likely to have similar clothes.

[@leannatimmerman9922]

The documentary was about the Minnesota Twins Study. Far from being irrelevant, it carefully shows how the identical choices made by twins raised apart could not have been randomly made. Google and read the study for more info.

[@TheReaverOfDarkness]

zlol Your argument makes no sense. We already know that identical twins raised in different environments will make different choices. That piece of evidence shows half of the proof that free will can't exist. Showing that identical twins raised in the same environment do make the same choices reveals the other half, and demonstrates thoroughly that free will cannot exist.

[@samreads]

"Similar" and "exact" are very different words in scientific terms. Predisposition for a particular hair style might be genetic programming, but to conclude that the actual choices they made on that day were pre-determined or predictable is jumping to a very questionable conclusion. This was, at best, a coincidence. And at worst, observational bias (to the point of being prejudicial)

[@giuffre714]

People believe free will exists because they can do anything they want within their power. Here's the thing... Your desires aren't a choice. So what you want isn't up to you.

[@bikebudha01]

Yet I can still choose to act or not act on my desires. And I can change what I desire when I want to. Take a recovered alcoholic. Not all of them, but some of them choose to stop drinking. Not all of them, but some of them actually lose the desire to drink over time - as they find different things to fill the void of drinking. I know many a professional cyclist who've eliminated craving for sweets. To the extent that even after they retire, and don't need to be on a strict diet, they still don't crave sweets. They chose to be a cyclist. They chose to eliminate sweets from their diet to enhance their training. And eventually, based on their choice, removed the natural desire for sweets entirely. There are just so many examples of people exerting their free will that's Mr. Harris's claim is quite laughable.

[@burkerow]

@@bikebudha01 "Yet I can still choose to act or not act on my desires. And I can change what I desire when I want to" Really? From where do your desires come? Did you create your desire, or did the milieu of your brain (which was the result of both internal and external factors) create your desire. Let's put this another way: If the brain (or soul) is affected by the prospect of reward or punishment it could no longer be considered a truly free agent, because it would be compelled in a probabilistically way to consider the consequences of it’s action. If environmental influences are responsible for converting standards of responsibility into the probability of behavior, such as the rule: If society thinks you’re a jerk if you do X (alcoholism), don’t do X can be programmed into our neural circuitry, then the soul (or free will) becomes superfluous. Alcoholics don't choose to stop drinking without pressures of reward and punishment coming from society. Most people go into rehab after loss of job, relationship, money, health or freedom. The philosopher Daniel Dennett believes that the last thing we want is a soul which has the freedom to do anything it desires. If our behavior were chosen completely by free will, then we certainly would not be able to hold people responsible for their actions. A soul, which is autonomous, would not be deterred by the threat of punishment or social pressures of shame. People would not be capable of reducing evil acts through the use of moral and legal codes, because a free agent which resides in a different plane of existence would be free of the influence of cause and effect of moral codes. As long as "cause and effect" is acting on brain chemistry, we are not exercising free will. Free will is an illusion.

[@bikebudha01]

ROD, you seem to be making the same mistake Harris does. You claim 'outside factors influence/drive my internal decision' and thus 'no free will'. That's bogus. Per your example, some alcoholics choose sobriety because they prefer a sober life. I know an alcoholic who KNEW he was an alcoholic when he had his first drink, so severe were the impacts to his system. He, almost immediately, chose not to drink ever again. There was no 'exterior pressure', he internally weighed his options and decided his life had a higher chance to be better if he was sober. He's been sober for 45+ years. Purely an internal decision on his part. Let me give you MY example. I travel quite often, and my office is close to a gas station convenience store. So I'm in these stores quite often. Sometimes I choose to get a candy. There is no reason for me to do so. I'm not starving, and I have other options to get food nearby. And when I choose the candy, I don't always pick the same thing. And sometimes I make it all the way into the store, look over the candy, and don't buy any candy at all. Totally my free will as to getting/not getting a candy, or which candy I pick. Not a single outside factor is involved. Nothing but my free guiding my decision. Oh, but where does my 'desire come from' for the candy. Well, duh, it comes from me. The glob of neurons inside my skull is where my free will resides, just like everyone else's. Arguing anything different is an exercise in either semantics, or looking for attention....

[@burkerow]

@@bikebudha01 Maybe you didn't read my comment very well. Let's walk through this. "claim 'outside factors influence/drive my internal decision'" I actually said: "Did you create your desire, or did the milieu of your brain (which was the result of both internal and external factors) create your desire." Please read that again......"both internal and external factors" You don't think what you're going to think before you think your thoughts. We are not the authors of your thoughts, intentions, or actions. Our thoughts arise into our consciousness due to brain chemistry. Brain chemistry is a reaction to environment. We are only aware of the tip of the iceberg of information available to, and acting on our brains. The vast majority of information lies below the surface of our conscious awareness. While we become aware of changes to our experience such as mood, perception and behavior we are totally unaware of the neural events which precipitate the changes. All of our thoughts and behaviors can be traced back to a biological cause and subsequent electrical-chemical reaction. The concept of free will from this perspective is only an illusion. Moving on: "I know an alcoholic who KNEW he was an alcoholic when he had his first drink, so severe were the impacts to his system." "SO SEVERE WERE THE IMPACTS" So there you go. He didn't "choose" the severe impacts, but the way his body responded to the effects of alcohol was an immediate punishment. Recall my words here: "Most people go into rehab after loss of job, relationship, money, health or freedom." So he didn't need rehab because he wasn't "addicted" to alcohol, but he nevertheless had an adverse health effect. "Totally my free will as to getting/not getting a candy, or which candy I pick. Not a single outside factor is involved." So you think you choose candy or not, but you don't explain why or what it is that makes you desire or not desire to have candy. I'm sorry, but you do not understand neurology. You haven't grasped how every single thought or action that we perceive or do is related to brain chemistry, of which is a reaction to the external environment. "The glob of neurons inside my skull is where my free will resides," And that means nothing to me. Your free will resides in the glob of neurons inside your skull? That glob of neurons is just that, a glob of neurons which fire in response to electrical impulses that release neuro-hormonal transmitters, none of which you initiated with a thought. Sorry, there's no "Ghost in the Machine" a la Descartes. All organisms evolve brains as a way of altering their behavior and internal states in response to the environment. To an organism as simple as a clam which barely moves on the ocean floor, it only needs to open it’s shell to find food, or to close it to avoid harm. For the gazelle grazing on the African savanna, it must discern the rustle of the grass caused by a breeze from that of a lion. If it were not able to develop a “theory of mind” and assign agency to a rustle coming from a dangerous source it would be eaten rather than eat. The human brain responds to information coming from many sources, the external environment, from the internal environment of the body and also from a sphere of meaning-which include spoken and written language and social and cultural messages. Imagine you come home and find your wife/husband sitting on the sofa crying and looking disheveled. You rush to her side and ask “honey, what’s wrong?” as you reach for a tissue and put your arms around her. From your perspective the information streaming to you from the different domains seem to be a unified experience, but it isn't. You feel as though you are the author of your own thoughts and actions as you choose to comfort your spouse. You decide what to do and not do. It has become difficult reconcile this view with our ever expanding sphere of understanding about biology and neurophysiology. Many philosophers from the age of Spinoza (17th C) have doubted the concept of free will. Spinoza argues that seemingly "free" actions aren't actually free, or that the entire concept is a chimera because "internal" beliefs are necessarily caused by earlier external events. The appearance of the internal is a mistake rooted in ignorance of causes, not in an actual volition, and therefore the will is always determined. Spinoza also rejects teleology, and suggests that the causal nature along with an originary orientation of the universe is everything we encounter. That humans presume themselves to have free will, he argues, is a result of their awareness of appetites while being unable to understand the reasons why they want and act as they do. And now with the advancement of neurophysiology , we can confirm, through experimentation, that free will doesn't exist. And contrary to your assertion, no one is looking for attention by arguing determinism.

[@bikebudha01]

Rod, that's a lot of words to be wrong. "so severe were the impacts". Let's focus on that. The impacts were tangible (he could tell he would become addicted to alcohol, and that he would be drunk all the time). So you are 'half' right, his decision was partially based on an outside physical stimulus. But here is where your theory falls apart. He CHOSE to stop drinking. He could just as easily CHOSE to keep drinking, as many alcoholics do. The alcohol didn't make him stop drinking. The thought of living life as a drunk, while certainly a strong motivator, didn't make him stop drinking. He made the decision to stop. Not only did his free will choose to stop drinking, every time he's ever had a craving or been tempted, he's used his free will to not drink. ---- If we flip back to candy, you say I didn't 'explain' why I chose/didn't chose to have candy. But I did. I was aware of the candy. I was aware I had the option to get candy. I made a choice to get/not get candy. Nothing but the inner workings of my self made that decision. And I'm sorry you don't understand what a glob of neurons is, i.e. my brain. The way my glob is organized is the physical form of my self. So my eyes see the candy/my brain remembers candy is in the store and available. I then think about whether or not I want candy. Then I move on my decision. No outside influences. ---- But you have already proven my point. There is nothing in this universe making you respond to these posts. Not hunger, not danger, not profit. There is no 'instinct' built into our brains to respond to online comments. The one and only reason you respond is because you choose to. That is the definition of free will.... (fyi, check and mate)

[@bigbody6845]

I’m on the come down of an acid trip. THIS WAS INTELLECTUAL ASMR. I love you man please keep doing this

[@Earthad23]

Mushrooms made me believe that this idea is completely backwards and consciousness is eternal and fundamental, stupid mushrooms.

[@mikedegregorio9113]

So, in a nutshell: Free will cannot escape it's own consciousness, so therefore it is not free will, it is forced to act, or not act.

[@juanfrancisconavarrorodrig567]

Your way of putting it implies a choice. Based on what Sam says, you don't even have a choice between do or don't, as whichever answer you were to take, it would be because of a combination of causal factors

[@mikedegregorio9113]

@@juanfrancisconavarrorodrig567 And the casual factors are realized due to consciousness.

[@Nighthawkinlight]

To have become angry at another human being who did not concede to this argument is proof in purest form that this philosophy, true or not, is far from being a solution for humanity treating one another with more compassion and understanding. I suggest Kathryn Schultz's talks on the concepts of human wrongness as a philosophy that truly is of value in how we treat others with conflicting ideas.

[@giuffre714]

NightHawkInLight Is it trying to address that? I just watched a video on how to clean a bbq grill.

[@GodsMistaek]

Well he was angry because he just got so frustrated at the fact that this rabbi was a snake oil salesman. Selling lies, confusion and empty words as profound statements to be taken as the highest form of wisdom. It was just a nihilistic fleeting thought where Sam must've thought, and rightfully so, "There's no point. We're a species that's never gonna go anywhere so long as people can be this stupid. May as well blow up the Earth. No point in keepin it around if it's full of a bunch of dolts smelling their own farts and calling it a gift from god." That's not to say he doesn't understand the position of the Rabbi, but in fact he understands so well, that the feelings on the matter are so overwhelming. Probably due to understanding the dire consequences of such stupidity. In turn, Sam could nothing more than be angry. He didn't have a choice. As for the compassion aspect, I'm pretty sure that would only work if everyone was understanding of each other, without room for ignorance. Unfortunately, we don't live in that perfect world of understanding and compassion, so rightfully so, there's gonna be some anger and frustration when someone isn't understanding of how much their ideas or words or philosophy can be damaging to others, and our species as a whole. Sam has stated that it's perfectly natural to be angry at the person who kills someone you love, but that understanding that person couldn't have done differently, and was ultimately a victim of their own circumstances, allows you to let go of the hate, quicker. Which could in turn lead to forgiveness. If everyone was smart, reasonable, non-violent or didn't sell lies and empty statements as wisdom, and were taught to be aware at an early age of the fact that people have no real control, but are merely "victims" of their circumstances, then their WOULD be a lot more understanding and compassion. People wouldn't be flippping out all the time over petty shit, or fighting over stupid shit, whatever said stupid petty shit may be. Wars, hate, someone not being very good at their job, someone not being smart etc.

[@marktrued9497]

The academic debates over Truth, the debates that led the average guy to conclude that all truths are subjective and therefore equally valid, didn't serve us very well. I think this one will age just as gracefully.

[@snaileri]

Source? Where did you grab this audio?

[@user-np8xh8hb1o]

Sam Harris podcast ‘Making Sense.’

[@krysiabamford1624]

This is so comforting to me in one way. I’m not an academic just a simple person, but it has never made sense to me that that we have free will. How could we if we have no choice where we are born and to whom, what our DNA is, what illnesses etc we inherited. All the influences in our lives, the habits we acquire because of our experiences etc. My next thought and action could be predicted by a super computer if you entered all the data about me from day one. So what does this mean I wonder? Am I just like a passenger in a body ?

[@farmerjohn6526]

You chose to write that response, didn't you? Did someone make you do it?

[@krysiabamford1624]

@@farmerjohn6526 ha ha. On the surface it appears to look like I had a choice to write, but it was inevitable that I would write it because of who I am and where I have come from and from the experiences and DNA that I have. If it is inevitable I feel then there is not much choice happening.

[@farmerjohn6526]

@Krysia Bamford it does get confusing...the devil is in the details. And in the definition. For example, if free will means no one stopped me or no one made me , then you have free will. But if you say free will means i am taking this action free from apriori cause, you might say no. But what if the decision was made within a neuron that was impacted by a neutrino that caused the decision to be a random one, thus non causal. 🤔

[@HippetyHopper]

Not from your day one it goes obviously even further back. The way your parents raised you is directly influenced by theirs, and so on..

[@timorean320]

"Freewill" has nothing to do with Geography, or Genetics. It's about "choices", and actions/reactions of said choices. The "potential" to do 1, or the other. You ordering a Big Mac today for lunch was not pre determined. If you are going to roll dice. I know angle, speed, bounce etc., by having all the info before hand, I could "know" what you were going to roll, before you did it.

[@richardsorel201]

I love that part about not choosing your parents as it relates to free will. It's so true. I didn't ask to be born. I didn't choose the parents that gave life to me. I didn't choose to grow up in the neighborhood that I grew up in, nor did I choose the food that was fed to me when I was a baby. I didn't choose the school that I attended as a youth... So on, and so on for all of us. When then, I ask you, does free will start? If you say it begins when we understand right from "wrong" and I've never been exposed to the Bible (the Law" being the supposed standard for right and wrong), how can I be held accountable for doing "wrong" ? Most importantly, am I really in possession of free will as some might argue?

[@trixn4285]

We simply don't want to live in a society that allows for "wrong" things. It doesn't really matter if we chose to want that or if it is just the evolutionary consequence of some "intelligent" creatures sharing space on a planet. If free will doesn't exist we literally have no choice but to hold people "accountable" for doing what we consider wrong.

[@richardsorel201]

@@trixn4285 So what's your take on the matter.... do you believe that we have true "free will" or do you believe that random things are set before us as we go through this thing called "Life" and we merely have free choice? Do you believe that right and wrong are even important, and if so how are we consistently encouraged choose the "right" over the wrong if we're not accountable to something greater than ourselves? I'm not implying bible-based "values" or values from any other revealed religion, I'm simply asking a genuine question.

[@kenjoneslee]

@@richardsorel201 Animals don't have real free choice or free will, except that they can physically move from point A to point B whenever they want , unless constrained obviously. We are all programmed biologically to exhibit certain behaviors. The spectrum of behaviors we can exhibit are all genetic, hardwired possibilities and constrained by our physical/biological world. We did not choose any of it. Values have very practical use and are critical in complex human societies. Values help societies maximize harmony and peace within a society and among societies. This helps them prosper, continue to thrive while preventing disintegration.

[@richardsorel201]

@@kenjoneslee well said.

[@silverbullet537]

I believe knowing the difference between right and wrong starts when your parents (that you didn’t choose) teach you

[@Summer_Xia]

Your brain is doomed to know that your brain is doomed to konw that your brain is doomed...Who can help me out.

[@matonmongo]

As Harris says, just change your 'belief'.

[@matonmongo]

@frootjooce Whenever someone seems to 'invest' a lotta their energy and identity into _proving_ how, rational, smart, religious, righteous, whatever they are, am usually less I'm inclined to believe 'em... or as Jung might put it, "where's their Shadow hiding"?

[@matonmongo]

@aboctok Or about the most they'll have is "Free Won't". www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/dont-delay/201106/free-wont-it-may-be-all-we-have-or-need

[@andsalomoni]

Your brain can be doomed to whatever, but you are not your brain.

[@Hermiel]

Which episode is this from?

[@arushan54]

"2 + 2 is 4 minus 1 that's 3 quick mafs." I didn't remember Big Shaq's voice on my own volition. I had no choice but to remember it. Free will doesn't exist.

[@D4savy]

loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

[@onefodderunit]

Random thoughts of an idle mind aren't evidence that matter is creative or decisive.

[@arushan54]

Random thoughts are evidence that thoughts are random. Whatever you make of it is up to you.

[@onefodderunit]

@@arushan54 No. Your idle mind is the result of lack of focus. When you focus, stupid thoughts won't be a problem.

[@snabdndhdjdbb1899]

I am atheist , I understand what he is saying. Free the slavery mentality of your mind. Free thanking has got to be a must. 🇺🇸🌈✨⚖️

[@struggdontmiss]

3:20 fuck lmaooo im expecting this topic to be serious but man the delivery of that line was fucking hilarious.

[@rayrous8229]

Free will, or no free will. Neither is proof for against the existence of a creator. Neither is proof of a loving watcher.

[@Justwannalogon]

Having no free will is a stark contradiction to most religions' precepts.

[@amirhosseinahmadi3706]

You're wrong. No free will means non-culpability, which in turn means sin, divine punishment and reward, heaven and hell, and so on are nonsensical concepts, rendering all theistic religions as false.

[@zoramsanga76]

Okay, now, I am slightly confused. If there is no free will, am I free to choose what I believe? If not, what is the use of this talk by Sam Harris?

[@jonaseggen2230]

aquaregia sanga I feel or think that I chose to try to answer to your question, but believe that I or my brain got triggered into doing this. (I hate this discussion because I don't find anything I'v not seen before or what I call stupid and unreasonable arguments. I guess that's what we humans are, stupid yet believe we are so smart. In the numbers we are smart, but so are termites, only a few of us are really smart.) I also believe Harris feel and think he makes choices, but that things that happened or he did before made him what he is today, and makes he do what he does.

[@giuffre714]

aquaregia sanga No, you can't choose what you believe. Give it a try. Try to believe something you don't. It can't be done.

[@zoramsanga76]

Well then, everything is predetermined. Even religious believers have no choice in what they believe. Things are as they are as they are, and not anything else. This is liberating. I think I am enlightened now.

[@jonaseggen2230]

: D

[@davosholdos1253]

He was forced at gunpoint

[@autokrohne]

Following this line of reasoning, it seems to me that my beliefs about free will are irrelevant.

[@joshboston2323]

Martin Krohne-not fully. If you do not believe in free will, you would be more forgiving towards others.

[@manaleauxduclaire482]

The universe is a self engineering creation. Can't have a puppet show without the puppets.

[@Lauren-se5bu]

He calls the other man's view ugly just after saying: 3:00 "I'll admit that these encounters sometimes bring out the nihilist in me. A claim this empty expressed with such evident self-satisfaction causes some part of me, some small part that other parts are struggling even now to expunge, to hope that a distant asteroid will just be nudged out of its orbit and set on a collision course with earth."

[@govitascom9610]

The mystics were right. We create our own realities based on what we think about most often. This is why cardiologists die of heart disease and oncologists die of cancers.

[@tomrhodes1629]

True, GoVitas. But I offer you some insight using the examples of the cardiologist and oncologist: To begin with, most people don't understand is that there is a huge difference between WILL and CHOICE. You can CHOOSE to desire any particular outcome in any particular situation. And maybe that outcome will happen, and maybe it won't. But if you were able to WILL that outcome, it would NECESSARILY come to pass, GUARANTEED! As it turns, we don't have free will, but we do have the power of choice. And the only thing we are choosing, with absolutely every choice that we make, is our DESIRE and our BELIEF. And this is a BINARY function: 1) Do I desire Truth? Or 2) do I desire Truth to be what-I-desire-Truth-to-be? Which is the OPPOSITE of desiring Truth, because this is the desire to LIMIT Truth to my desires. OK now, concerning the cardiologist and the oncologist: If they really desired Truth they would find the TRUE cause of - and cure for - cancer, and the TRUE cause of - and cure for - heart disease. LIKE I HAVE. (I have only a high-school education, but an extreme desire for Truth.) Instead, they want to believe in their education and information, even when they see their patients dying like flies. And they prove this point once and for all when they can't help even themselves with these diseases. And concerning this video... Sam Harris doesn't realize that he is an intelligent bag of contradictions. Because, he believes that we don't have free will, and yet there is no "God." So, exactly who or what's will IS done, Sam? He won't understand until he reads my book, which will never happen in this lifetime. Perhaps in his next life? God's prophet has spoken.

[@Rick_MacKenzie]

His entire argument hinges on the presupposition that every event is a cause and effect event. If there is such a thing as a spontaneous event, the whole thing goes out the window.

[@giuffre714]

Rick MacKenzie But we can't choose those either.

[@Rick_MacKenzie]

+Joe Giuffre Cannot choose those what?

[@JasonWilliams89]

Even if there is such thing as a spontaneous event (and there is in QM, it's made of probabilities), we have no control over it, and so Sam Harris is still right in that we have no free will. We're still a product of everything that made us.

[@giuffre714]

Rick MacKenzie We can't choose for there to be a spontaneous event.

[@d_e_e_k]

​@@giuffre714 How can we say for certain that our conscious is incapable of spontaneity? If a system (i.e. consciousness) were in a state of equilibrium, why is it inconceivable that a force could manifest (show) its own creation/injection in the system?

[@darlingtonboobam4107]

I am one with every single thing Mr.Harris is saying. ..

[@HiawathaNenad]

Tee Vee Of course. He's not free not to understand, because he understands it.

[@mattiagiagante7384]

The mere experience of having a free will exists, as long as it remains within the realm of consciousness, outside of it, free wll loses its meaning. Out there, there are only laws of nature orchestrating the unfolding of the universe, including our brain processes and so our decisions. Sam Harris has helped me a lot to comprehend about nature of human mind.

[@bigeverlongnow]

I realize this is 3 years old x) but could you define what you meant by "the realm of consciousness" and remaining in it as opposed to outside of it? is it the process of making sense of the experience (reasoning)?

[@Writeous0ne]

@@bigeverlongnow well, theoretically there is no space for a concept of freewill in physics. so freewill can only exist in our realm of consciousness which is basically the few milliseconds of decision making in certain parts of our brains. some studies have shown that signals actually activate about 300ms before the parts of our conscious actually activate which means your brain works subconsciously before it does consciously.

[@merlynschutterle7242]

Life is a trail of infinite possibilities, but only one becomes reality.

[@calpurniawhitney8193]

So well said so true to me. Thank you for sharing.

[@MasterSpade]

5:32 "Reason makes Slaves of us all". Then at 5:41 "It matters that 2+2 equals 4 , and it matters that you Understand this. Are you free NOT to Understand it? NO. Not if you do in Fact Understand it. Are you free to Understand it if you Don't Understand it? Again, NO. Whether you Understand or not, isn't under your control. But the difference matters, absolutely." PREACH!!! This man speaks the TRUTH!!! But.............does he have the "Free Will" to always be so Right and speak the TRUTH?? lol!

[@brokenwave6125]

No, he is simply stating thoughts which have come to him against his will.

[@dab0331]

If sam truly believed free will didn't exist he wouldn't even argue the point. He would have faith in nature's ability to give you incite when it's needed. Example: if you were capable of communicating with dogs, you wouldn't have to argue with a dog to take care of her puppies when she gives birth. You don't have to bring up the benefits it brings to dog society at large, or how her puppies would suffer of she didn't do her motherly duties. She would just do it! Instinct would take over. The fact that he ever argues ( and not just that, but also gets so emotional over trying to convince us) PROVES he has no faith in instinct and is trying to appeal to your free will to rationally accept his argument or not. Yes we are animals and heavily influenced by our genetic instincts for power, sex, did, etc, BUT the thing that makes us humans is that we're self aware and have the ability to OVERRIDE our genetic/ instinctual impulses and desires

[@rh001YT]

@dab0331 "Override" is the key. Somewhat famous philosopher Edmund Husserl noted that humans have the ability to reflect on their perceptions. He suggested that the time between perception and reflection, which could be a short or long time, is where freewill comes in. The determinist will say "you touched a hot stove and it hurt, so you learned not to touch the hot stove", does not consider that humans will reflect on the matter and come to be able to tell in advance if a stove is hot or not. Then we apply that reflection to other things that might sometimes be hot or not. Thus the human is very different from other animals which, upon being burned by a hot stove, would assume the stove is always hot. So Yes, we can override in many cases.

[@MasterSpade]

Dobro Doggie -- Care to enlighten the rest of us as to specifically what this "biggest crock of nonsense" is? BTW, what "god" do you worship? It wouldn't be the one you were born into........would it?

[@MasterSpade]

Dobro Doggie -- So you are an Atheist? If yes, that is Great News! The more people that finally wake up to the absurdity of religions/gods the better!! Especially here in the United States! It truly is sad that here in 2017, the majority here in the U.S. still believe in Fairy Tales of gods. Nothing has set mankind back more that religion. “This would be the best of all possible worlds if there were no religion in it!” - John Adams “All thinking Men are Atheists.” - Ernest Hemingway

[@ashraykotian1]

Only thing I will say is this: you might not have free will but you still have agency. That, for most practical purposes, is good enough.

[@richtomlinson7090]

What Sam is saying at the end, is perfect. Knowledge, and Perfect Foreknowledge are integral to this entire problem. We can only try harder to better our knowledge and efforts. It's all included.

[@emanueletorregrossa1431]

IN OTHER WORDS, REFUSING TO MAKE A CHOICE, PARAODOXICALLY IS A CHOICE!!!

[@JesseTheGameDev]

I've known about Sam's views on Free Will for a long time, and I disagreed with them because I felt like the implications were too great. I basically thought "if no one has free will, then that means no one is responsible for their actions and everyone can/should just do as they please, because that's what they were destined to do". But I was absolutely wrong in thinking that. We are still fully responsible for our actions, and if you come away from this thinking that you aren't then that is a result of your lack of free will. But if you come away from this thinking that your actions DO still matter then that too is a result of your lack of free will. People who are going to do the right thing will strive to do the right thing regardless of whether they have free will or not. It doesn't take free will for people to do the right/wrong thing.

[@lSomeRandomGuyl]

Right. The only thing you gain from believing that free will doesn't exist is a "profound amount of compassion" for others who are victims of their circumstance as Sam says.

[@keithflowers8456]

When he says it was luck, is like saying I have not control over my decisions made based on my knowledge, good or bad.

[@Deeker]

Sam isn't jesus. Telling people they don't have free will has plenty of potential consequences. The one you mentioned "compassion" leads to leniency which leads to increase in the behavior that we felt compassionate for. Then there is this push pull of humanitarianism. We try to compensate for the fucked up conditions that caused the undesirable situation that, when the ideology goes to extremes (all ideologies seem to), the situation becomes problematic. From there systems are implemented to fix the problem that must be less humane and compassionate because those tendencies have proven not to work. Think forced abortion or criminal lobotomy... Also we will view criminals as victims and try to support them and rehabilitate them which will encourage people who are having difficulties in other areas life to engage in behaviors that will lead to rehabilitation... Basically it will slowly normalize fucked up and harmful shit. Not to mention on the individual level it causes moralistic apathy that has actually been demonstrated with social experiemntation: www.researchgate.net/publication/229092281_Guilty_free_and_wise_Determinism_and_psychopathy_diminish_learning_from_negative_emotions I mean if you don't have any personal responsibility for outcomes ( the root causes of the situation were all preexisting and external ), then it makes it almost unfair and illogical to take the path of more resistance just to make self sacrificing decisions? It is a cold, hopeless world after all isn't it? To me the implications are pretty scary>>>normalized sociopathy!

[@tomblue01]

The very use of the words "right" and "wrong" in your conclusion would show tremendous hubris if one take's Sam's remarks to their chaotic conclusions. What if your "right" is my "wrong"? What gives your impulse more priority than mine? For what right does one blob of cells floating around in the universe have to tell another blob of floating cells what is right and wrong. Blobs of cells (humans) grouping with other blobs of cells to tell still other blobs of cells what they should do--what gives these former blobs the right to anoint themselves as "god of the blobs" and attempt to suppress the impulses of other blobs? Isn't the very formation of a belief that "my cellular impulses are more right than your cellular impulses" the very essence of religious belief?

[@MegaMercernary]

Tom Blauvelt This is basically humanism at its finest, which Harris is aligned with. He may say there isn’t free will, but honestly, he doesn’t like the part of it being detrimental to human society, even though it doesn’t matter in the slightest. All cognitive functions must stem from something or somewhere,-if we are all puppets on strings, then we are nothing more than mere actors and actresses. This spurs many people to even question not only the justice system but even their own version of morality, unless you are like Sam Harris who actually gives a damn about the lives of the unfortunate. Even things like “compassion” is but a trait handed down from our ape ancestors.

[@davinci451]

You know what else is an illusion? Certainty. Given that we cannot be certain, I'd rather make choices as if I do have free will. Especially, since I will bear the consequences of those actions regardless of whether I have free will or not. And when you think about it, if I'm wrong, it won't make any difference anyway.

[@Dex000x]

This is actually very comforting when you realize that we are just a single part of a mass consciousness existing briefly in a mobile viewer made of meat, and the only meaning of this life is to experience it and bring that experience back to the collective consciousness after we die. A lot of near death experiences would seem to back this up. We exist in this world as passengers, experiencing the good and the bad without any effect of how it turns out, and when we die we are welcomed home with no divine judgment, only gratitude for our experiences, and a welcome home.

[@LeatherCladVegan]

This is incredibly simple stuff. I like the way Sam explains it, sure... but there is nothing complex about the fact itself. I wonder why so many people refuse to understand/accept it. I feel as though - more often than not - they simply will not allow themselves to accept it because they feel that it would suddenly mean that they don't love their family, or that their lives would change irrevocably in an unwanted manner, etc etc. They feel that life would be meaningless if they acknowledged the truth of the matter.

[@giuffre714]

Probably because they don't have a choice.

[@Writeous0ne]

quite simply its because they like to believe they are important but if we don't have a choice in what happens, then it makes them feel less important. or at least it might make their efforts or lifestyle seem meaningless

[@chinmayborkar6695]

because existence of such people is predetermined 😉

[@LeatherCladVegan]

@@chinmayborkar6695 But they can be influenced.

[@LeatherCladVegan]

@@giuffre714 One does not choose their beliefs. I am merely asking why they are so resistant, in the same way that I would ask why a particular cookie dough was so tough.

[@drivebypoet]

That anecdote at the end about those villagers drinking some toxic substance based on superstition was pretty disturbing. It's so bizarre that we live in a world where things like that happen.

[@Writeous0ne]

people would rather believe something absurd than have no belief at all.

[@agrxdrowflow958]

"it is not of him who wills nor of him who runs, but of God who has mercy" Romans 9:16

[@02nf2i]

I get all of the prior events that have led me here that I have had no control over, but I struggle to understand the argument against my freedom to make a trivial choice when I have the means at my disposal. For example, do I choose to eat snack A or snack B, watch show A or show B, scratch myself with my right hand or my left? There may be a lack of free will that I am unaware of, but might there also be free will that I am equally unable to verify?

[@linux_b1969]

I think I am able to sum it up: "You do everything based on your beliefs of what is right, and by your knowledge of how to execute these actions. The problem is that both beliefs and knowledge are given to you by an outside force. Thus, your actions are based on your experiences, not your free will." But is this really true? I've learned that killing birds are wrong. So has my sister. Still, I might try one day to kill a bird, but my sister doesn't. (Free will) Then one might argue: "But your lack of friends and your short temper is the reason YOU killed the bird." (External force) But people have experienced much harsher things than me. They might have had no friends and had an alcoholic for a father. *I* made that choice. I am a human, who can reason, and will be held accountable for his actions.

[@giuffre714]

Your mind is like a scale, you will always do what weighs the most.

[@goldythehavanese7532]

@@giuffre714 desire*

[@giuffre714]

@@goldythehavanese7532 Yes

[@jimmoroney7529]

Sam's belief is similar to what Calvinist Christians believe. Calvinists believe that we are "dead in our trespasses" until the Holy Spirit of God "quickens" a person into becoming a believer. Just as Harris believes that no one can choose logic, some Christians believe than no one is capable of choosing spiritual life through God over death.

[@thisslightlysweetlife3402]

What do you think of Monism? @John Doe

[@thisslightlysweetlife3402]

Sorry, I meant that to read Molinism. I was just curious on what makes you reject it since you're a calvinist. I've found that most calvinists I have spoken with are very well educated on the alternative philosophies and reject them for specific reasons. @John Doe

[@thisslightlysweetlife3402]

No basis at all in scripture? @John Doe

[@thisslightlysweetlife3402]

Interesting. @John Doe

[@jacksfavorite4808]

The biggest problem with the concept of free will is that it is complicated to explain. The complication begins with the term "free will".

[@markk9123]

Jacksfavorite Free Will is an illusion

[@nolongerhuman13]

One thing I asked my friend was this. Let’s say you saw a child about to be hit by a garbage truck and u didn’t think and you leap to save the kid knowing that you will likely die. He said that’s a choice you made using free will. So I answered this “ it’s a CHOICE I would make EVERY TIME and it’s without much thought at all but I KNOW myself and have done similar things in the past. If I choose this EVERY time. How much of it could be FREE WILL ? If it appears that I am “wired “ this way or it’s the outcome that would ALWAYS occur”. He tried to say something else but then that wasn’t WILL that he said it was DECISION and that’s different. Like chocolate or vanilla. There MUST be parameters on the “argument “ or it’s open ended. And can go on ad infinitum. How much can be FREE will if it’s something you would always do. Being who YOU are ?

[@giuffre714]

nolongerhuman13 Well said!

[@polymathg]

We have free will... based on the limits of our biology, the configuration of our time period, the law of the land, natural law, the way of the world adjusted to all of the human doing before us, and the current circumstance in this place this very moment.

[@marieehayden2304]

Agreed

[@explosives101]

"""based on the limits of ... the law of the land""" - Tell that to some guys in North America in 1776.

[@naturalisted1714]

You're just asserting a bunch of stuff without making a case for any of them.

[@markservice8735]

I'm allergic to peanuts, any chance you could replace those peanut M&Ms with almonds?

[@adamscott7354]

Sorry, free will had nothing to do with that

[@alexdenton9176]

That bit about the rabbi reminds me of Goethe's aphorism about 'preferring the company of peasants as they have not been so well educated as to reason incorrectly'

[@maxtrixbass]

It seems a simpler argument would be: A. If all the material world is governed by an inalterable complex chain of cause and effect B. If the mind is a product of the material world and not separate from it C. Then our thoughts and actions are governed by an inalterable complex chain of cause and effect Set up the exact chain and of events right down to the atomic level and the outcome will repeat itself endlessly regardless whether it is billlard balls or neurons.

[@simone.7076]

Sam nailed it. But I don’t know what to do with my life now.

[@konyvnyelv.]

Me too. Life is a joke without free will

[@Earthad23]

@@konyvnyelv. You have a will

[@dataxglobal]

@@Earthad23 but not free

[@Earthad23]

@@dataxglobal Possibly, Do you feel determined? Who are you? Where did you come from? Are you just a collection of atoms following determined laws? Or are you the awareness of all of it? We don't have a reductionist materialists account for consciousness and we probably never will. Im not saying I know but I don't think we can just ignore the open questions even if they are inconvenient.

[@easternwind4435]

I don't understand why the capriciousness of ones talents leads to the moral duty to help ones that have been born less lucky. It would most certainly be nice to help them but I see no legitimation for the obligation to help.

[@giuffre714]

Harris is really bad at this. But it's not like he has a choice.

[@lupash]

R. Gregory has rephrased this a bit differently, but as much interestingly: "we don't have free will, but we have free won't", also in the light of several neuroscientific experiments.

[@drakedoragon3026]

Free will is like taking credit for sight... you don’t open your lids and activate sight... it’s automatic as are our thoughts, it’s just the choice one makes after the thought arises.

[@leespaner]

you just have to love sam harris

[@KGBos]

You have to because you have no choice.

[@PqV72MT4]

No. I do not have to love him or respect him. I despise him.

[@AbbeyRoadkill1]

david selig, and you also had no choice.

[@Mr2TIMOTHY4V2]

if you are gay

[@dreyestud123]

sam harris is a snake oil salesman.

[@longmai9343]

To conclude: You have the freedom to choose but your options are limited by prior causes. So try to make the best of it Choose wisely!

[@kingstarscream3807]

Wrong

[@OceanSwimmer201]

@@kingstarscream3807 Actually, he's 100% correct.

[@lrvogt1257]

As a test, without warning, toss a ball to a person and watch them attempt to catch it; then consider how they decided to try to catch it rather than drop it. They didn't knowingly think about it at all. It's all memory, conditioning, and context. Free will is an illusion: The awareness of alternatives over time until one recognizes a course of action is set in motion. These are then remembered as conscious choices rather than a series of unpredictable yet inevitable events.

[@giuffre714]

Well said.

[@StraightUniversalism]

You can't say it's all luck ultimately, because luck implies good happenings and bad happenings, but in reality there is just what is, which when we don't judge it, is certainly alright (and unique).

[@boptah7489]

Of course you have free will. In every moment you have the free will choice to accept the situation, or reject the situation.. This is your free will choice.

[@pyannaguy]

And..don't you think that "in every moment" the things that occur (including the choices & decisions people are making) are affected by and caused by all the forces & events that precede that moment? That's simple cause-and-effect - it's inarguable.

[@boptah7489]

absolutely. but the simplicity of every moment is you have a choice. To accept or reject the moment. that does not mean that you cannot initiate action in the next moment.

[@pyannaguy]

Again, Yes, you can choose to race through the amber traffic light or NOT - but you can never "choose" fast enough to outrace causality. Your need to get to work in a hurry... or... your fear of getting caught for running the light will play a part in MAKING YOU "choose" one option or the other. Do you think you ever act completely devoid of causality?

[@boptah7489]

I am not suggesting that you can change something heading your way due to previous unwise choices am i? and yes, there are times when you can be devoid of causality it is expressed in the gita. " It is to be in the midst of the battlefield, but be not thou the warrior. " Emotionally, this would equate to a continued state of joy. the state of joy is the exact balance between cause and effect..

[@hassi44]

I see how this makes sense to you and I realize you substantiate your argument with philosophic scripts (Gita), but please appreciate the intuition involved in that. Reality has no obligation to be understandable to anyone. What makes sense to us is all about the portion of reality that the brain has evolved to experience classically, which is fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the whole of it. Just because something makes intuitive sense does not make it real or factual. Free will rests on the notion that you can either be active or dormant. To be active means to make a choice and to be dormant means to not make one. In either case, for the decision to be free it must not be connected to any origin. The decision must be free from the constrictions of the self, which is to say, the things that dictate your being, your personality, your origin, act as constrictions on the self. You react and behave the way you do due to a complicated set of factors, none of which are under your direct control. Genetics, socialization, environment, parental methods, culture, the current status of societal progress, even fiction, are all just a few factors out of many more that come together to form the personality that makes any and all decisions. For you to make a choice free from these constrictions relies on the mind being a blank slate, completely unaffected by external factors. Seeing as being conceived, being born and growing up intrinsically imparts those factors on to you to form the self and the corresponding shadow, free will is inherently impossible.

[@rudypea]

Those are red and blue peanut M&Ms.

[@danschneider52]

Orange and blue right?

[@seanmurphy4465]

He could have chosen yellow and green. See... Freewill.

[@seanmurphy4465]

“...I will choose freewill....” RUSH ⭐️

[@tuneunleashed]

@@seanmurphy4465 Can you chose what you want?

[@pida9669]

We are strongly (if not entirely) influenced by the many pleasures and pains that push and pull us throughout our lives. Since we do not (generally, directly) control when these feelings start and stop, it must then mean we at best have *partial* free will, or at worst none at all. But whether you believe in free will or not won't really change much-- you will still continue to think, feel, and act... hopefully mostly rationally. :-)

[@m4641]

I'm lucky to have listened to this.

[@paulpanzer827]

Listen to Sam. He grew up beeing told that he looks like Ben Stiller, realizing that people are not free to chose what they look like. If he was free, don't you think he would've chosen to look like someone else?

[@garybalatennis]

Whether you think you have Free Will or not, you are right.

[@giuffre714]

Yep, everyone gets a trophy : )

[@earlholler7872]

slap handa slap hands!!!

[@Justwannalogon]

There are layers to lacking free will, I suppose.

[@jackburgdoerfer5955]

One idea that does puzzle me is the notion that the lack of free-will automatically ensures that Luck is taking place. Maybe I am missing something, but I do believe that it is completely possible for something to not be a product of Free Will and to also not be a product of luck. For instance, if a man accomplishes many accolades and is successful (in whatever narrative), he might not have done so freely. He might of been genetically primed and predisposed to operate in a certain fashion. The result of which, being success, but that doesn't mean that it was luck either. Although his actions might not have carried the autonomy that many people feel is inherent with cognizance, his actions were apart of the entity which we label as "him". It is the same thing as a race between a Ferrari vs a Prius. We wouldn't say the Ferrari won due to luck, but we also wouldn't say it has free will.

[@thisslightlysweetlife3402]

Yes, if determinism is true then there is no such thing as luck either.

[@giuffre714]

@@thisslightlysweetlife3402 If you're determined to win the lottery, I would consider that lucky.

[@thisslightlysweetlife3402]

Why? @@giuffre714

[@giuffre714]

@@thisslightlysweetlife3402 Because you can buy stuff you want. Or help others. It beats staving while covered in flies😀

[@thisslightlysweetlife3402]

But why is that lucky? It just 'is' right? What would luck have to do with it? @@giuffre714

[@richter018]

Ultimately the Theory of Relativity implies a block universe where "past, present and future" all coexist simultaneously only we can perceive it. So if the future already exists we can't have free will.

[@JamesRichardWiley]

If I believe an omnipotent god gave me free will where does his all powerful will end and mine begin? What exactly is free will?

[@abrogard142]

the way the religious tracts of old and the NDE of today and recent years have it is that god gave us, gives us, free will to go away from god and 'do it ourselves'. and that's what we're doing here on earth. in repeated incarnations. if seen it/heard it said a few times in the NDE accounts that this earthly stuff and the suffering that so many bring upon themselves (because they say it is our own choice to incarnate on earth and undergo a life here) brings pain to god - but it's 'free will'. It's what he has promised us. bit like mum and dad and the kids leaving home I guess. or turning your favourite horse loose wondering if he'll come back. so that's what free will is: the choice to leave home.

[@safpsy]

Free will is probably related to quantum mechanics. Something that Einstein, for all of his genius, never really accepted.

[@pjorgensen2]

Einstein eventually conceded to be wrong about quantum mechanics. Quantum mechanics doesnt imply free will, it just means the universe obeys fundamental principles of randomness and probability. Einstein just didnt like that idea, he tried hard to prove it wrong, but all those attempts ended in paradoxes and unexplainables.

[@safpsy]

@@pjorgensen2 "Eventually, and reluctantly, Einstein conceded the technical correctness of the system that Heisenberg and Bohr had laid out, but he never fully accepted it. "-David Lindley

[@alanstewart4168]

He's certainly not the first scientist/philosopher to articulate this, and for me it's not just indisputable but also makes intuitive sense. How could it be otherwise? We're very fortunate to have Sam Harris. Our decisions and behavior are bound by the same laws as everything else in nature. One day we may have more detailed scientific explanation as to why we have the conscious experience of self, or maybe it will remain forever beyond our ability to understand. Is it just natures way of making us behave as though there's really something in there to protect? and how does that give rise to subjective experience? These are fantastic questions!

[@giuffre714]

Alan Stewart La place's demon.

[@jameswhite3415]

If I designed two tic tac two AI that would play flawless games of tic tac toe against each other could I always predict the move they were going to make? My question if there are multiple that are just as good how do you predict which it will chose?

[@memaimu]

Sam Harris confirmed Agent Smith.

[@skydriver1990]

There is such thing as collective free will. Individually, most of us can do little. Together we can do it all. We're told that we don't need each other to succeed, we each need to be strong. That's a lie, we need everyone.

[@naturalisted1714]

Even as a collective we still do not have free will - because if the parts (us individuals) do not have free will, you do not add them together and somehow arrive at free will.

[@jimj2683]

The entire concept of free will is absurd from a scientific perspective. The only way it exists is as a psychological experience

[@ryandoom9342]

Gotta listen to this again 🤔 and maybe again and again. Lol. Knowledge is power and true power is service ❤️

[@rendren7487]

I've listened to this a few times, however can someone explain this situation? Someone asks you to hold a hot pan. At any point you are allowed to let go of the hot pan ....An incentive is given to anyone who can hold it the longest, but no previous times are given. Do individuals exercise free will as to when thet let go?

[@giuffre714]

Ren Dren No. You can't choose your desires. You will let go when you desire to.