RDWorks Learning Lab 47 Chinese laser 8 month review

[@jadenkrosis3087]

You`re the kind of guy that I would come visit at the end of the day or weekend, have a few beers and have you show me all your modifications and custom upgrades on your projects. I would`nt try to come messing around while you`re working though! At age 52 I learned everything I know from the old school and when I watch videos like yours is when I still learn more. Your work is brilliant :)

[@SarbarMultimedia]

Hi Jadan I suspect we are several thousand miles apart so I'm unlikely to get that beer!!!! Thanks for the kind words Best wishes Russ

[@jadenkrosis3087]

Yes we are several time zones apart so the beer would be quite warm by the time it reaches you :) I imagine you might just get a kick out of some of my own machinery videos I`ve posted. Thank you and best wishes to you also Russ.

[@davidwolfenbarger7383]

I would like to add my voice of thanks for your fantastic series of videos. They are at a level of quality and information content that I rarely see coming from the KZbin maker world. My laser, the same basic model as yours, is scheduled to arrive today and your videos have armed me with the knowledge I hope will allow me to avoid some of the errors that could arise in the trial and error process that I will likely be facing. thank you!

[@SarbarMultimedia]

+David Wolfenbarger Hi David Thanks for your kind words I assure you that there's lots of fun ahead for you. Even though my naivety has led me astray at times, it's all there for you to see and steer round the problems. Good luck and remember, don't be lured over 60% power until you have an ammeter fitted and know how your tube performs. Russ

[@acdii]

I learned more about these Chasers from the 4 month and this video than I have in weeks of reviewing forums. Great job Gov'ner

[@jeffbeck6501]

This is a must view video for people wanting to learn about 40 watt co2 laser CNC's. Great work sir.

[@melgarArizona]

Wow! Thank you so much for all your informative videos on this 50W Chinese Laser Cutter. Absolutely educational to an electrical engineer like myself. I am going to buy the machine and start my new hobby with laser cutter.

[@SarbarMultimedia]

Hi Be very careful when you buy, It's a jungle out there and most machines are not what they seem. If you wish to choose something that suits you and contact me via the you tube messages with your email, I'll be happy to pass comment Regards Russ

[@user-zq6pj5jo8j]

Great info. Thank you for sharing what you have learned.

[@zaphodbeeblebrox5186]

How amazing! This is still the only good information out here in the ether. You are my new best friend.

[@pissantsseemore7095]

Russ, for general consumption. Just received my shipping cost to Alaska from China. This machine, an RW-RD 3050 (M2 board) same as yours. True 60W laser tube. Cost: $1,350 usd From Qingdao, China to Seattle, Wa. sea freight is $105 usd. Barge to Alaska additional. Ground freight arranged by manufacturer, lowest rate specified.

[@rikkroon7502]

Hi, Thank you for all your effort to make these videos that can help a lot of people with this kind of lasers... I do have a similar laser as well and also experienced that 2 handy hands is a big requirement of operating this machine. However one thing i have not seen in your videos but i had quite some troubles with in the past in the get the work table completely level. As you know the lens has a hot burning range of just a few mm's so having the table absolutely level is a requirement to get consistent cut over the whole bed. the mounting of the table it self is adjustable but with the big threaded rod a little bit of a turn is already a lot of different and the locking mechanism is by turning the nut. After having lots of trouble in trying to get the table full level to the head i decided just to level it but not perfectly. THen i took a perforated steel plate, painted it with a bbq coating to reduce the reflection and put 6 fine threaded bolts trough it (each corner and in the middle of the long side) that gives me a perfect work table that is very fine adjustable.... Now that i have this fine adjustable table i placed about 350 little bolts and nuts all over the perforated steel plate to keep the material on a nice 30mm distance of the work table. (kind of nail bed like you also made but much more durable... we use our machine about 5 to 10 hours daily) (i clean this table with a pressure pump very frequently) If you like to we can have a skype conversation about it so you and your viewers can benefit as well of this. Thanks and keep up the good work..... i really learned a lot of things from you...

[@SarbarMultimedia]

+Rik Kroon Hi Rik Thanks for your appreciation. I like the idea of your pin table. As your saw from my video on reflectance, it's not essential to paint the steel table as it has low reflectance and produces rapid beam divergence. However, BBQ paint is a good idea to stop it tarnishing. I hope I explained the reason for developing the flexible pin table arrangement. My machine is running with a 1.5" focal length lens and I only have a 6mm gap between nozzle and work. I have to be careful when cutting shapes that they either remain fully suspended on pins or are allowed to drop down. If they are the wrong size and pivot on a support pin and the edge sticks up, a collision with the head will disturb the sheet and wreck the job. In general I use minimal support and let parts drop but for paper and card I need lots of support in specific areas and this flexible approach allows me to deal with both situations. However, I'm using my machine for an infinite number of projects not as a production machine like yours so our needs are different My projects to date have generally been selfishly dealing with MY problems. However, as you will have seen from my recent work I have nearly "sorted" my machine (just waiting for a tube upgrade to fix the final issue) and now have a pretty good understanding of what makes it tick. The possibility of looking at setting the table level is a good subject for a future session. Although my lens has a very narrow usable "in focus" range, my table is reasonably true to the nozzle and I have not experienced any focus issues. A more in depth examination would not be a waste of time. Thanks for the suggestion (I shall mention you in despatches....unless you want to remain anonymous) Finally, I'm having the most fun ever with this little toy. I used to run a laser profiling business cutting metal with 3kw CO2 crossflow lasers. This is NOTHING like that. It's a whole new learning experience. My other hobby is video so documenting my adventure with this little Chinese Dragon has been a win, win for me. Everything I do is selfishly for me and my learning, but because you can come along and look over my shoulder, the unintended bonus for me has been to find out, from all the kind feedback, that it stops other people making the same mistakes and gives the knowledge that I have acquired in the same simple way that my mind likes to absorb it. Thanks again Kind regards Russ

[@billwerner7718]

Hi Russ!! I like your idea of the plywood jacket/halogen light warming system for the water tank. I have also read about those who simply add antifreeze (Automotive or Recreational Vehicle type) to the water to keep it from freezing. What are your thoughts on the antifreeze additive method? Kind Regards, Bill

[@SarbarMultimedia]

Hi Bill I think the following video will answer all your questions kzbin.info/www/bejne/hHLMfqWDfLlkhZI Best wishes Russ

[@kriskumaroo]

Ok only one thing I would do vice all of those sensors, heating contraptions and switches is to keep it inside. That is way too much for me to affix. I guess if you don't have the space, you can't. I have a workshop in the basement. It is a fairly temperature controlled environment so that is where it goes for now. The alignment of mirrors is something I think needs to be done regularly. Is it that difficult to adjust the thumb screws? I guess I need to find out on my own once it arrives. That will most likely be the first thing I do. I have a heating element in my gun safe and I never thought it would be enough to keep rust and condensation off my items, to include precious metals. It works beautifully. That is a great upgrade, but I will be less technical and just get the same (maybe larger due to the non-insulation factors of the metal casing) gun safe heater, mount it in there and keep it on all the time. After the machine is used, even in the summer I don't' want some massive condensation to happen, or rust.

[@1010tesla]

wow! I look forward to seeing the 60W upgrade.

[@michaelapuzzo453]

Thanks for the reply I ask you if I should get a larger tube because you said you don't get the output they came thank you so much for your info much appreciated. Hope you have a wonderful retirement I will be doing the same soon.

[@pissantsseemore7095]

Russ, for general consumption: 60w 3050 machine (M2 board) cost: 1,350 usd Machine with M2 board same as yours. TRUE 60W laser tube. Customer questions addressed by manufacture. From Qingdao to Seattle sea freight: 105 usd. ron

[@Gaatech]

A great round up of all your videos over the month and i would recommend that people view them all. I really mean that. How about a video if you have not done one already, that i have missed, on your electric heater bulbs but more so how you control them with the temp sensors a little pixace chip? Love the copper mirrors i learnt much about RF reflectance from that video and that a surface does not have to be shinning to be good. Also the last mirror problem was an eye opener, the way the beam was clipping the last mirror, well spotted and documented. I look forward to your video about adding your 60W tube. Feel the Force Ron With the pre ignition could it be the power supply. Will you need to upgrade your power supply when you fit the 60 W tube. Can you share links where your purchase your upgrade parts please. Wow 30W cutting 15mm amazing very nice edges. May be i will settle for a 50w and not import a true 60W, as if you can do that with 30W a 50W running at 80% should be fine, as i dont expect to be cutting 15mm thick stuff may be 10mm wood and acrylic. What's your views on that. And like you i can always upgrade at a later date. Thanks for sharing again

[@SarbarMultimedia]

+Carbon - G10 - FR4 - CNC Routing - 3D Design & Printing - Online Shop Hi Thanks for your appreciation. As I have told many people, I'm a retired engineering designer that has always had video as a hobby. Learning about this little Chinese dragon was the perfect subject for me to mix both passions. What you see is me "playing" and learning. It's all very SELFISH because I do and learn about things the interest ME. I dig into corners that are not well documented because without that understanding I could not have achieved the efficiency that I have arrived at or the knowledge and confidence to go out and buy a more powerful system. If I had the benefit of more power from day 1, it's unlikely that I would have pushed so hard to find that extra few % of efficiency. It's great that a few interested people with similar passions are finding it helpful, that's a pleasing and unintended bonus for me. If you check out the answer to Bradley all the contact info you need is there. On your potential machine purchase. 50 watts would be fine but make sure it is truly 50 watts. The tube will need to be at least 1000mm long so if the dimensions of your machine are less than 1150mm wide then it will NOT be fitted with a proper 50 watt "running power" tube. Most Chinese machines are sold on "peak power" which if you try to run at those values will invalidate the tube warrant because your are "over-driving" the tube. No Chinese machines are fitted with ammeters (an absolutely essential extra that you can buy from Ebay for almost nothing)probably so that it's easy to duck any warranty claim. DONT run your machine above 60% until you have fitted an ammeter and you also have a recommended max running current. I suspect that your vendor will not want to supply this but as a rule of thumb 18mA for 40 watts, 20mA for 50 watts and 22mA for 60 watts. Exceed these values and you will shorten your tube life. If you visit the RECI website and read about their tubes, they actually recommend engraving with this pre-ignition condition. My PSU is on 50watt rated so it's going as well. Remember my machine is fitted with a 1.5" focal length lens. Most engravers are fitted with 2" lens and you may not be able to replicate my results. So, this is another detail for you to check out when you buy a machine. People like Thunder laser sell you something called a Hi Res head as an expensive option, but it's only a special head with a 1.5" lens. You can see how easy it is for me to change my lens to anything I want and I don't need an option head. If you haven't seen it check out my lens video kzbin.info/www/bejne/jZOlgaOpaZecfsU As for the temperature control on my water system, the meter I am using is a leftover from a project and is a rather expensive programmable unit. It's over-spec for the job it's doing but go to the message section and send me your email and I'll put some info together for you Regards Russ

[@tainoworks]

Your videos have inspired me to move forward with dods for my Chinese laser. I have learned much from your videos and continue to replay those that I have a second try or need to get a better handle on the task. Where can I find the mod units like MK2 for purchase?

[@SarbarMultimedia]

Hi Hector I have severarl Mk 2 designs . Which item are you interested in? Best wishes Russ

[@sotirisg7705]

Hello, greetings from Greece. I want to congratulate you for your excellent work, please keep it coming! I've watched all your videos and learned more from them than months of reading fora and researching these cheap Chinese machines. You've made my decision to try one much easier (I'll check that company you mention that seems honest and straightforward). Some issues I'm curious about. Since most of the problems with the mirrors and lenses seem to come from the "baking" of smoke particles on their surfaces, how feasible do you consider would it be to isolate them from this smoke, either by coating them, sealing them behind an IR transparent "glass" of some sort (if they're available/affordable), or building some sort of "air curtain" setup to stop this smoke from entering the optics and their paths (a horizontal for the mirrors and a better top blowing vent for the head)? Or even, could it be possible to have the IR beam travel through a fiber optic cable like other types of lasers?

[@SarbarMultimedia]

+SotirisG Hi Sotiris Thanks for your words of appreciation. Your last question first about fibre optics. Although IR is classed as light, in the overall electro-magnetic spectrum, this is a bit misleading. Glass is very absorptive to IR and it will not transmit. Remember its HEAT energy. Secondly your major concern about smoke particles on mirrors and lens. It's more of an imagined than a real problem. If you have good through flow ventilation the smoke and fumes will never get near your mirrors. The only risky area is the lens, BUT the air assist that is keeping your cut zone smoke-free is also providing positive pressure inside the nozzle where the lens is, so that is not at risk either. The machine I have is basically very sound but I have modified it to suit my lazy ways and to fix a few small design issues. Most Chinese machine vendors are selling on ebay as private listings and there appears to be no link to the company making the machines. When you buy one don't expect any help or after sales support. I know that the company I bought from have warehouses in the UK and Germany so I would expect yours to be shipped from Germany. You will almost certainly be asked to pay by Pay Pal. If you have an account don't use it. Make sure you pay by CREDIT CARD. PayPal and Ebay protection is almost worthless, you will be much better protected by your card company. Good luck Russ

[@sotirisg7705]

+SarbarMultimedia Hi. Thanks for the advice. Also about using a credit card instead of paypal, I'll keep that in mind. About the mirrors and the lens, I overestimated how much smoke they get, but still they are consumables because of the dirt that gets burned on them by the laser. I searched about CO2 laser fiber cables and they do exist, they're called IR-transmitting hollow silica waveguides (HSW), and Polycrystalline InfraRed (PIR) fibers. I have no idea how much they cost but they're mainly used in medical surgery and everything tagged "medical" is usually too expensive. Imagine though how much better everything would be without mirrors, complex mounts and alignments, and all the power losses!

[@SarbarMultimedia]

+SotirisG Hi Sotiris Because the IR energy is rapidly absorbed by water to a depth of less than 0.5mm (human tissue being mainly water) it is widely used for medical purposes where little power is required and the damage to tissue is very shallow. The power limitations of the technology will limit its use in the sort of machines the Chinese are mass producing. Certainly for multi kW industrial lasers they use fibre optics but at a completely different wavelength. As you say, this is not normal glass fibres as used in light transmitters but a special crystal structure material. The "glass " lenses used for focusing the beam at the final stage are made of a special IR transmitting crystal material called zinc selenide. In its raw state it only transmits about 70% of the energy. Not because its being absorbed but because 30% is being reflected. They have to apply special light absorbing coatings to it, and good quality coated lenses are more than 99% efficient. Back to mirrors. Most mirror materials that you will encounter have better than 98% reflectance. Typical 50 and 60 watt machines will therefore lose about 1 watt per mirror. The beam is 6mm diameter so the energy density is insufficient to even scorch a piece of paper let alone burn anything onto the mirror. The only mirrors that are sensitive to heat are what they call K7 mirrors. This is basically gold plated glass and if the surface coating of gold gets damaged in any way at all ( just a few microscopic scratches) the highly absorptive glass behind will suck in energy and break. You might be able to buy some old medical equipment to play with but I'm afraid that you are likely to be buying a cheap Chinese machine like the rest of us. Best regards Russ

[@powermate]

I hope the new tube works better. It so hard to pick a good tube.

[@SarbarMultimedia]

+Bradley Mohr Hi Bradley, I looked long and hard and made quite a few enquiries. Apart from the gold-standard RECI (too expensive for hobby use) and who don't produce tubes below 100watts anyway, it's a bit of a jungle trying to read the Chinese specs and getting straight answers to questions. I encountered this small company who want to provide a top quality product and service. I got honest and simple answers to my questions. Their specifications were all "up front". Like RECI they declare their peak power but sell on the "running power". Their normal tubes have a claimed "running power" life of 4000 hours (twice that of most other cheap tubes) and after that their words are "the power will decrease". With my usage, I shall probably be shaking hands with St Peter before that happens!! They were very quick with their communications and although I had to communicate and buy through AliExpress, I asked them a for a direct email contact....and got it. Now that I have ordered, they have asked for my controller information and are preparing a connection diagram for me.....that sound more like really good service to me. From what I can see they make all their own tubes and power supplies. I'm paying little more for a 60watt tube AND power supply ' than I paid for my second, cheap, over-specified and erratic tube. However, DHL are doubling the price for their 5 to 7 day delivery service!! I will obviously be recording my fitting and first test experience but so far it's got that "good" feeling. Here's the company website www.mactron-tech.net/sdp/819105/4/cp-4811529/0/Homepage.html All their products and prices are at www.aliexpress.com/store/group/Co2-Laser-Tube/321243_252074840.html?spm=2114.12010108.0.51.UDXo0H They do sell machines as well but cannot find prices for them. If you have special questions or enquiries, the email I have is for Gelly Dung in the Service Department [e-mail] However, this is not publicly available and out of courtesy, if you use it, please advise that Russ Sadler was the source Thanks for your support Russ

[@denniskramer9788]

Hi Russ, Have you ever had issue with the X or Y drive system? I've noticed that many 50W 3050 machines are advertixed with a belt for the X drive and what sounds like a down grade 'cable' for the Y drive. I can't tell from the pictures how they differ? Thanks, Dennis

[@michaelapuzzo2326]

Hi mate is it a good idea to buy a 80 or 100 watt laser not to over drive tube.?

[@SarbarMultimedia]

Hi Michael The power you choose depends on what you wish to mainly do with the tube. If you are wanting to cut mainly 8 and 10mm material then the more power the better BUT the more powerful the tube the less control you will have at the low end if and when you want to do photo engraving. A 40 watt tube is great for this sort of work but is limited to cutting 3mm material (as a guide) The 60 and 70 watt tubes are jack of all trades. They will have enough low power control and adequate top end cutting power to still cut 10 and 12 mm material....but slower. So the first decision is to decide on your application to best select a tube power. Remember that the cost goes up disproportionately as you choose more power. You can safely run your tube to certain current limits without the fear of over driving and shortening your tube life. Typically you can expect a tube to last for anything between 3 and 5 years So here are some typical max running current guides 40 watts =18 mA 50 watts = 20 mA 60 watts =22 mA 80 watts = 24 mA 100 watts = 26mA Best wishes Russ

[@smallbatchbrewingco5675]

Am looking at getting this, It looks like the best one for the money , even though there needs to be upgrades , but I doubt I will be cutting anything thicker than 6mm , Great videos :-)

[@SarbarMultimedia]

+Daniel Ennis I was disappointed at not getting what I was "promised" but not unhappy with what I got. It was good value and has forced me to learn huge amounts about these little Chinese dragons. The fact I have been able to share my adventure will hopefully ease the pain for those that follow Thanks for your kind words Russ

[@smallbatchbrewingco5675]

Will this fit through a door ? No side entry :-)

[@SarbarMultimedia]

+Daniel Ennis www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350B-50W-CO2-Laser-Engraving-Cutting-Machine-Auxiliary-Rotary-Device-0-60000mm-/111694615353?hash=item1a01849339 Width of 25.6" should pass through a standard 27" door. You may have to take it off the hinges depending on how far the door swings open. Russ

[@jasonwright1753]

hi there, great videos, im slowly working my way through them, ive just bought an 80w machine (so likely a 60/70w tube) i saw you fitted a 0-30mA ammeter and was wondering where its connected to, the laser or the power supply - maybe its a silly question, i just dont want to get it wrong, aso i assume its an AC meter i want, thanks in advance

[@SarbarMultimedia]

Hi Jason there are detailed instuctions on how to fit the ammeter on kzbin.info/www/bejne/rnW9nqiuppp1e68 The meter can be just a cheap DC ammeter because there is no high voltage involved at the cathode end of the tube. The line that connects between the output end of the laser and returns to the power supply is a fairly thin wire. It is nothing special because it's at virtually zero volts. You need to break this line somewhere and insert your meter as I demonstrate in the video. This is a typical meter description that you will be able to copy and put into your own ebay search if it's not .co.uk www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-30mA-Analog-Panel-AMP-Current-Meter-Ammeter-Gauge-85C1-0-30mA-DC-White-/281821569084?hash=item419ddfe03c:g:UTUAAOSwKsRWFfCz Is your tube marked KH Laser? If not, has it any markings? What are the tube diameter and length? Best regards Russ

[@jasonwright1753]

Thanks Russ, machine was only ordered this morning so cant get those sizes or markings yet just trying to get all the additional things i will need ready. Thanks ill get on and buy an ammeter in readiness.

[@thebeststooge]

Can we change the water to a 50/50 mix water + anti-freeze/coolant like they use on computers? It helps to transfer the heat better and can use it with a radiator PLUS it won't freeze unless we are talking about -20c or something.

[@tamking2]

Did you try the antifreeze? How did it work out?

[@threedp2760]

Hi Russ, how to calculate max current to be measured basing on the W size of the tube?

[@SarbarMultimedia]

Hi There may be slightly different (usually higher) max allowable tube currents from different manufacturers but these are the generally accepted maximums for each tube size 40 watts (800mm long tube) 18 mA . 50 watts(1000mm long tube) 20 mA 60 watts( 1200 mm long tube) 22ma 80 watts (tube diameters and lengths can vary) 24mA 100watts (tube diameters and lengths can vary) 26mA Typically if you do ny have an ammeter fitted then do not exceed a power setting of 65% An ammeter is an essential addition to your machne and simple to fit www.ebay.co.uk/itm/91C4-DC-0-30mA-Class-2-5-Accuracy-Analog-Ammeter-Amperemeter-Gauge-/351749565079?hash=item51e5e86a97:g:HjsAAOSwmtJXUVFu In case you do not have one see kzbin.info/www/bejne/rnW9nqiuppp1e68 Hope this helps Best wishes Russ

[@ridley68]

40w drawing 18mA? 230x0.018 = 4.14w Do you mean 180mA?

[@SarbarMultimedia]

A little misunderstanding here. The mains and the current through the tube are completely unrelated. The hv power supply does two things. Very crudely the mains voltage powers something similar to the spark coil in old cars. That voltage which will be in the 25 to 30kv dc range will cause the nitrogen, in the gas mix within the tube , to break down and ionize. With loads of free electrons floating around this gas becomes an almost resistance free conductor capable of carrying huge currents. That is where the HV power supply does its second job of regulating the current flow though the ionized gas.. Best wishes Russ

[@ridley68]

@@SarbarMultimedia So a little like the starters on fluorescent tubes that provide really high voltage to create a conductive path?

[@SarbarMultimedia]

@@ridley68 Yep. That is an example of another type of gas discharge tube, it's just that the excited atoms collide randomly with a flourescent material where the energy transfer appears as light.. Old radio valves and flash tubes are other variations of gas discharge systems Best wishes Russ

[@ridley68]

@@SarbarMultimedia I think in the tubes the light produced is ultraviolet which is absorbed by the coating and the coating fluoresces with a white(ish) light.

[@SarbarMultimedia]

@@ridley68 My apologies I should have said photons not atoms .Different gas discharge tubes emit photons at different wavelengths and it is the energy transfer as the photons hit the fluorescent coating that stimulates the emission of white light. Thanks for the correction Best wishes Russ

[@Griffhaven]

Im in clippesby Norfolk i assume your local ref your tone Russell love to meet you

[@martijn4740]

a nicer upgrade would be removing the co2 laser all together and going for a fiber laser.but sadly those are not cheap

[@SarbarMultimedia]

+Martijn V Yes , that would be a great upgrade, but then there would be very few problems to solve and all the fun would disappear!!! I have a colleague who still runs a laser profiling business and he has a 4kw fibre laser machine for metal cutting. Wow that's amazing to see. I did a little video of with my phone as it was cutting some 1.2mm thick zinc plated steel. kzbin.info/www/bejne/jpTXaouwfbZ6ppo (the green hue is because we are looking through a guard system) Best regards Russ

[@martijn4740]

+SarbarMultimedia yes you are very righ about that that would take away a lot of the fun and co2 tubes are a factor 10 cheaper :)

[@nemrac4321]

What are you growing?

[@SarbarMultimedia]

I'll call them sunflowers and just hope you are not a botanist !

[@powermate]

Once again great video: Check out the facebook page group Laser Engraving and Cutting. They talk about your videos sometimes.

[@oleksandrbovtenko3133]

Thank you of your hard work!

[@pissantsseemore7095]

Please mention me, as an optional resource, to inquiries about a machine. I believe I can provide the quality, and manufacturer resource, for no more money. I keep trying to register with the lab. My email address now accepted , thanks, but password rejected. Makes no sense. Need a hiatus for a few weeks. Greater laser wattage and working areas available. sincerely, ron

[@SarbarMultimedia]

Hi Ron A couple of your posts went into the youtube comments "holding" bin which I didn't notice for a few days. All your comments and posts have now been released by me and are there for all to read. Good luck with your new venture Best regards Russ

[@pissantsseemore7095]

Many thanks, ron

[@thebeststooge]

I sent an message to a 2k dollar 100 watt job on eBay and they never got back to me because I asked them how long the tube was so I would know if it was really 100 watt or a lie as most Chinese sellers are doing. I wrote them back today and told them their silence in responding spoke louder than any lie they could tell me and there are sites out there telling people what the length of a real tube is supposed to be per wattage AND if theirs doesn't measure what it should ebay would refund the money based on fraud by the seller. I had over 700 dollars refunded to me on a 3d printer from China due to their shenanigans and lies (besides it almost caught fire and would have burned down my house). So, I mistrust China eBay goods BUT there is a chap who just had one come in and the tube was 5 inches longer than his old 40 watt tube and the quality of the table and the tube holders had greatly increased. No more wooden box it is sent via FedEX or UPS in a double cardboard setup.

[@SarbarMultimedia]

If you buy from China direct from a manufacturer ( you generally still have to do the transaction via Aliexpress or Alibaba) you will generally get what you ask for. The down side is that it costs an arm and a leg for special transport arrangements and then you will have to pay import taxes as well. It appears that Ebay is just a dumping ground for rubbish tubes and power supplies hidden in reasonable mechanicals.. If you accept that fact and take the cheapest price machine that is already landed and in a warehouse with all taxes paid, and then plan to replace the tube and PSU with reputable kit, it will probably work out considerably cheaper. As a hobby machine that's probably the best way to go but if you need it to start a small business then it's not. There are a few large export companies selling these machines but most are being sold on Ebay by a guy ( or woman) from their kitchen in China for some small commission. They know nothing and care nothing about the machine they are selling Regards Russ

[@thebeststooge]

SarbarMultimedia Well, the prices seem to be fixed within a few dollars of each other but if that one guy just received a really nice unit with a tube that measures a true 40 watts maybe there is hope but I doubt it. If I found a machine for 100 less knowing I would have to pay 200 for a real tube replacement then alright but that isn't the case sadly.