RE Auto Topcor 58mm f1.4 and f1.8. Legendary vintage lenses reviewed and compared.

[@Simonsutak]

Here are links to the different sections in the review: 00:00 Introduction 02:34 Specs 06:08 Wide open performance 11:04 Bubbles and bokeh 13:43 Portraits 15:26 Stopped down performance 19:58 Conclusions

[@AI3Dorinte]

I don't think this review could have been better made. Thanks for this video, you should be proud of this work, I can see how much time you took doing this, I can feel the love for photography here, please don't stop producing these videos!

[@AI3Dorinte]

PS: I still think you need to do a full review on the Auto Sears/ Auto Rikenon 55mm f1.4 lens. Not very sharp wide open but the colors, the bokeh and the overall feel of the shots it produces is just magical. Lots of pixie dust right there :)

[@Simonsutak]

Thank you so much for your kind words - this means a lot to me.

[@Simonsutak]

Yes, those lenses are excellent for magical bokeh. I own the Mamiya/Sekor 55mm f1.4, a lens that is identical (I believe) to the Sears and Rikenon (and a few other Tomioka made 55/1,4 lenses). I agree with your description 100%. I also own a Cosina Cosinon 55mm f1.4 with very similar characteristics. Your comment encouraged me to take out and use the Cosina this morning. I've been thinking about reviewing the Cosina possibly versus the Mamiya/Sekor, as the Cosina is the only lens of this type that is not radioactive, and may appeal to more people. If I had more time I'd definitely do that review right now - but time seems so short at the moment.

[@AI3Dorinte]

@@Simonsutak will be waiting for that video :)

[@ChasWG]

Two lenses that I wasn't interested in before watching the video, but now... Damn it Simon!!!! Another great lens review. Very interesting info and always with beautiful imagery. You have become the go to source for information about funky vintage lenses with these video. Thank You!

[@Simonsutak]

You're very welcome. You need to educate me on Canon lenses!

[@Bigfarmer8]

Thank you Simon! This made me run for my camera and lens cabinet realizing I have Topcor 28mm f4, 35mm f3.5, 50mm f1.8 and 135mm f4 lenses, all the slightly newer UV mount. They were collecting dust because the Topcor Unirex camera has a malfunction. Never thought of adapting these lenses to my mirror less cameras. Your videos are a joy to watch and every now and then very useful to me.all more modern

[@Simonsutak]

What a wonderful collection to have in your camera/lens cabinet! It will be so much fun using them on mirror less cameras. Many thanks for your kind words.

[@johnvanderschee6345]

You're the first person I know of that has more of a fast 50 addiction than I have. Keep up the video's they're very informative and are of high quality.

[@Simonsutak]

There's no doubt it is an addiction, especially the obsession with fast 50s . But it's a healthy hobby walking around taking photos and the lenses are an investment!!! That's what I tell the powers-that-be. Research and posting these videos is my excuse for buying yet more fast 50s!

[@Teslien]

I enjoy the older glass looks so please keep it up! Would be cool if you did more lenses in action. I know that the older lenses are manual focus but the vintage video looks are always pleasing to my eyes

[@frederiquerijsdijk]

Your lens reviews are really good, very nice comparisons. Gives you a very good feel for what the lens does.

[@Simonsutak]

Thank you!

[@classic.cameras]

Great review as always Simon! Im convinced that if Ibever come across TOPCOR again I will buy it if reasonably priced. I was not aware they were Cosina I always just thought they were cheap crap like Hanimex.

[@Simonsutak]

Many thanks. Cosina are such an interesting manufacturer - from some very cheap plastic-y lenses - to top quality all metal lenses.

[@qingyunwang3802]

Nice review as always, the Topcor 58mm f1.4 is a legend all its own. Since you're into Tokyo Kogaku, also check out the L39-mount Topcor-S 5cm f/2 and f/1.8. They have very pleasing rendering and centre sharpness, but also swirly bokeh, and the f/2 version is especially affordable.

[@campbells0ups]

big fan of the images from the 5cm f/2.

[@Simonsutak]

Thank you. I'll check it out!

[@KNURKonesur]

the 5cm f/2 being a Double Gauss design (slightly different between the "S" and "non S" version, but still) should have a nice swirl to it. Love someone mentioning any LTM lens, I always say it's an untapped treasure trove of lenses.

[@sander9t]

Topcor-S 5cm f2 LTM (V2-V4 sharing the same 6/4 optics) is currently my top 3 favorite vintage lenses. Wide open the center is so sharp that I haven't found one vintage that is sharper (e.g., Summicron Rigid, Prominent Ultron, Zeiss Ultron "concave", Nikon/Canon's nifty fifties from the 70s) but the sharpness drops off very quickly off the center. The bokeh is smooth in the center but gets swirly quickly off the center. Another trait is that the lens produces a strong 3D effect unlike anything else - it is a combination of gray tonality on the subject as well as the elegant transition from in to out of focus areas.

[@Rowan611]

I have both. I’ve only really used the 1.4. Just got an EXA adapter for my A73. But, the images I’ve taken on B&W film have been beautiful. Mostly taken at higher f stops. I got my 3 lenses (the other is a 135) as a group for an absolute bargain. Mine are both silver versionI use them on a black RE Super. Great review as always!

[@frogallic]

I have the 1.8. I have to say, I'd never heard of topcon before inheriting my great grandfathers topcon camera, and I instantly fell in love. Their build quality is top notch and the glass is beautiful!

[@Simonsutak]

Your great grandfather had great taste!

[@bigboyoj]

Thank you so much for your reviews. After your video I checked “the favourite auction website” and found a Topcon Camera with Topcor lens. Unfortunately not the same but it works to expand my (budget friendly) collection. Looking forward to your next review…

[@Simonsutak]

Many thanks. Enjoy your new gear!

[@marcusoutdoors4999]

Wonderful review. They’re both great, just different IMO. Very interesting to hear the Voigtlander connection.

[@KNURKonesur]

Interestingly, different optical designs as well, one being a Double Gauss and one being a Planar. Same happened with Minolta Rokkor 58mm lenses, but one was f/1.4 and the other f/1.2.

[@knnry]

I'm selling my 58 SL. and my Nokton 1.2 50mm. The 40 1.2 gets my heart. and 21 Color Skopar is its companion. Ill keep the heliar 15 vm and the Mr Ding V2 50mm for the moment.

[@michaelherskovitz4203]

Thank you for a wonderful comparison between two great lenses. I agree that the 58mm f1.4 has the “feel” of a great lens, but I’d also agree that nailing the focus at f1.4 can be a hit or miss proposition (especially with my eyes). I haven’t used the f1.8 but now I’m quite intrigued to see how it compares with some other f1.8 lenses from that era (such as Minolta, Takuma or even the Pancolar).

[@spectralcav]

6 bladed bokeh really used to bother me, to the extent that I avoided buying lenses with 6 blades. Now, it doesn't really bother me at all but I do try to avoid specular highlights in stopped down images, a different approach compared to using lenses with many more blades. Having said that, the Topcors do a better job than most 6-bladed lenses in producing quite pleasantly rounded hexagons up to f2.8. Rubber focus rings were innovative for the early 1960s, Topcon being one of the first to use rubber grips (Kilfitt being the first, I believe). Unfortunately, rubber technology wasn't quite up to the task in terms of longevity, although some copies of the Topcors fair far better than others, possibly down to storage conditions.

[@KNURKonesur]

I skipped over the number of aperture blades bothering me by just using my bright vintage leneses wide open and just going with it :P Also with a bunch of old lenses the whole optical block is in one metal housing that sits inside a helicoid and body of the lens, so you can build your own "shell" if you're willing to sacrifice some of the asethetics of the original lens.

[@Simonsutak]

Yes, I agree about the rounded hexagons - they are not as "clinical" as straight sided hexagons. I should be mentioned that.

[@collimatedbeard]

I have SL 58 for almost 10 years, never regretted buying it. Definite recommendation for people who don't want to chase collector lenses. Props to Cosina for making them even today!

[@KNURKonesur]

big props to Voigtlander for sticking to manual lenses and "digging out" some older vintage designs, now we have TTartisan and 7artisans going into that rabbit hole more and more thanks to Voigtlander :)

[@pres589]

Nice comparison. It seems like the f1.8 is probably, most of the time, the better lens. I have similar thoughts about my Pentax M series 50mm f1.4 and f1.7. I only grab the f1.4 lens when shooting film so the wide open sharpness reduction isn't as noticeable and I know I will want the extra light. Otherwise I always go for the f1.7.

[@KNURKonesur]

I would get analysis paralysis having several versions of lenses like that. Most of the time I have a bunch of stuff gathering dust on the shelf and me just using the one lens I currently have an obsession with. Too many choices make me stop taking pictures, if that makes sense.

[@sebastiang7183]

This is universally true of any brand. The slower lens will be better, and the corners will clean up faster due to less residual aberrations. The performance will be better wide open. The f/1.7-f/2 version generally are technically better than the f/1.4. Although, some of the best f/1.4 lenses can match their f/2 counterparts stopped down. This is very rare, however. There will always be left over aberrations in the extreme corners of the faster lens.

[@pres589]

@@KNURKonesur That's never been an issue in my experience. Multiple k-mount 28's and 50's means I can grab a lens for the situation instead of one size fits all.

[@peasantrobot]

On the 58/1.4 color is everything! I'm not on the accurate color reproduction, I choose paintings for the overall feeling. The same with photography. I don't mind the 6 blade aperture, the color rendering is awesome. A state of the art lens! And I like the fact that not many love this lens, in a selfish way, of course. That being said, thank you for the review, I did not know about this lens!

[@cvijax]

Thank you for this review. I am the one of those hooked on Tokyo Kogaku lenses. From technical point of view your review is very accurate. True, 1.4 is one of those lenses that are more difficult to use (but I have difficulties with all f1,5 fifties and faster). It takes a lot of dedicated use to tame it. But, once you know it, it does produce magical images. All RE Topcor lenses are extraordinary and where quite advanced for its time, particularly 35mm and 25mm. The 85mm and 300mm f2.8 are very rare and legends on its own (proce is out of my leage thou). I agree with @qingyunwang3802, Topcor-S 5cm f2 is the other one legendary Topcor 50mm lens. I like it better than f1.8 version. Even cheap UV Topcor lenses are optically quite good, but very unusual mount and much lower mechanical quality make them quile less desirable.

[@DannyChau7]

Another nice review, thank you, totally agree with your findings, the other GREAT Topcor is the 58mm f3.5 Macro with the matching extension tube set.

[@Simonsutak]

It certainly looks great. But expensive!

[@adonuff3338]

Hi Simon I have 2 versions of the 58mm 1.8, the RE Auto & the older Auto Topcor. As far as I can tell the older version is sharper. I also have the 20mm f:4, 28mm f:2.8, 35mm f:2.8 50mm 1.8 &135mm f:3.5. They are all great lenses. The 35mm was recognised as one of the sharpest lenses of its time which I can verify from my shots. Of all the lenses in my collection the Topcors are the one's I will never part with. Thank You for the informative video's!

[@Simonsutak]

Many thanks - I'm very tempted to try that 35mm.

[@Notso_Wild_Bill]

I asked, and you delivered. Thanks! Stay safe.Peace

[@joekubina5897]

I have the 58/1.4 and the f mount 58/1.4 as well, they both perform well. Haven't used the 35 much yet. And the 100/2.8 is a nice lens too from topcor. They have a Navy version of that lens that drives z the price up, but the normal re auto-topcor 100mm f2.8 works just as well.

[@fernandogomes3386]

Another great piece of content! Thanks!

[@RaRa-vq8od]

I like the silver 1.8 (129B), have tested manymany 50/55/58 1.8'ish lenses, and find this to be the best (vs Color Ultron, Takumar, CZJ Pancolar,). I cut of the auto-aperture pin to put on EOS adapter so can even use as AF with Techart LM-EA7/9 on Sony FE. Interestingly my copy has 1/3 clicks stops from 1.8 to 2.8, 1/3 stop clicks from 2.8 on, so closing aperture just 1-2 clicks improves sharpness nicely without showing yet the ugly 6 blade aperture...

[@EmpireMP]

Had 3 x f1.4s in the past.... sold them - but the selling of these lenses haunted me... so now i have another f1.4 silver. Used it the other day on a film shoot... so happy I have this lens. Had an f1.8.... but i would always dream of an f1.4. I put the 100mm up against the very old nikon 105... and I feel the Topcor 100mm was better. I am 99% Zeiss BUT these lenses have a magic beyond anything... if you sell it you will regret it, unless you buy a silver f1.4

[@Simonsutak]

It's good to read you experience and advice - I am tempted to swap it for a silver f1.4 and have fun testing that too!

[@seoulrydr]

Finally! Your conclusions are not surprising at all, but the fact that they accurately mirror my own opinion of them is comical. they really are pretty - owning them is as important as shooting them (especially in black).

[@Simonsutak]

Ha! I took my time. It's very good to read that my conclusions accurately mirror your own opinion. When I post these reviews I'm never quite sure how other users will react. That's part of the fun/stress of doing this.

[@powerlurker]

I have the voigtlander version ,it's more contrast and better flare risist due to zeiss coating,but the bokeh is not as creamy, the outliner is more pronouced, works great on gfx @ 2.8

[@Simonsutak]

Many thanks for this information on the Voigtlander - good to know.

[@knnry]

Spherical aberration plagueas the Nokton too. The 58 1.4 SL is unacceptably soft. (being sharper than the 58 1.4 G) The new 50mm Nokton F1.2 image is for sure more kept together. I found something particular in the Mr Ding V2

[@knnry]

the SL 58 1.4 has good blade design for roundness.

[@colinbluth5461]

the feel of the lens in your hand is not something you can ignore, the more you use different lenses. some lenes just makes you want to go out and take more pics, just by the way they feel in your hands. the Voigtländer 58 1.4 that was mentioned in this vid is one. i use it on a fuji xm1 with a m mount adapter, and it is a joy to use.

[@KNURKonesur]

It is a big issue to me, especially adapting full frame lenses to GFX, where the camera is quite big and then adapter + lenses usually having the focusing ring at the front mean ergonomically it's not a pleasant "feel". So after a long search for the one lens I want to keep, I disassembled it, took out the optical block and rehoused it into a helicoid which is much wider and easy to operate without "hunting" around the tube of the lens. So as much as I agree it's an important thing you can't ignore - there are ways around it with enough determination ;)

[@colinbluth5461]

@@KNURKonesur god dam, thats a win for you :)

[@KNURKonesur]

@@colinbluth5461 heh, kinda, but it did take time and money and effort to get there. Now I can't be bothered selling all the other lenses that I don't need/want anymore :P But yes, the DIY lens modding and rehousing community is a rabbit hole on another level

[@colinbluth5461]

@@KNURKonesur im right there, im having a bitch of a time trying to sell off gear i dont need, its a pain

[@KNURKonesur]

A gorgeous lens indeed! Really wanted to get one a while ago, but couldn't find real confirmation if it works on a GFX sensor so got a Rokkor 58/1.4 instead and I'm quite happy. Obviously different designs as the Topcor is a Planar and the Rokkor is a Double Gauss.

[@sebastiang7183]

The Topcor 58 f/1.4 vignettes on the GFX sensor. There is no f/1.4 lens that covers well on the GFX sensor in my collection other than the Minolta 58 f/1.4. The Topcor 58 f/1.8 covers the GFX sensor much better. I have found most of the slower f/1.7-f/1.8 50s cover well and most f/1.4 cover poorly.

[@EmpireMP]

I have my topper exakta adapted to canon EOS... no issues. the minolta 58mm f1.4 also has some special magic... but very different magic!

[@KNURKonesur]

@@sebastiang7183 I tried a couple and the best of the others must have been the Contax Zeiss 50/1.4, but it has noticeable vignette and I don't like the angle it gives on the bigger sensor. Tried some projection lenses that were f/1.6 but found them too big and gimmicky, they'd need to be adapted to a true 645 camera for it to be worth the hassle. The added value of a DIY adapted Rokkor is that I can collapse it for travel with the wider helicoid I used.

[@KNURKonesur]

Yeah the Minolta will be a bit different, a bit less flat, somehow it's a double gauss that is NOT super swirly and doesn't have a gigantic spherical aberration, quite unusual for its kind. My findings and what I've seen on samples are similar - most 50-58mm f/1.7-1.9 lenses cover a GFX sensor with no issues and most f/1.4 ones cover with strong vignette. Also can't really compare the two Topcors' rendering easily as one is a Planar and one is a Double Gauss design, similar thing happened with Rokkors, but one was f/1.4 and the other f/1.2.

[@sebastiang7183]

@@KNURKonesur The Minolta is quite unique compared to other lenses. It's a 6 element f/1.4 where every other f/1.4 50ish lens I have used are a 7 element. It has a very large image circle, but it has strong curvature which becomes more apparent when used on the GFX and the corners are revealed. I also compared the bokeh of the Minolta 58 f/1.4 to any other lens I have in that range, and it is the smoothest. I am not sure I agree about the less SA because I imagine the smoother bokeh is because of under corrected SA because it's only a 6 element design especially SA wide open at f/1.4. My Topcor 58 f/1.8 will achieve corner to corner sharpness for landscapes especially at f/8-f/11 on the GFX. Corners become very nice by f/4 but aren't perfect yet. More soft vignetting at f/4 than f/8, however.

[@anthonypc-248]

Hi! Inspired by a previous video of yours I'm about to purchase my first vintage lens; a HELIOS 44m 2/58. But does it make a difference if it's one made by "Jupiter" - Valdai or made by KMZ? That's the only difference I see between two similarly priced, fully cleaned/serviced option from the same seller in Ukraine on Ebay. btw I'll be taking portraits and shooting videos on a Sony FX3

[@Simonsutak]

Some people say that the build quality/quality control can differ between the factories. But I don't know how you can be confident that a specific lens will be impacted by this from a specific factory, versus a specific lens from another factory. For what its worth, my favorite performing Helios 44-2 lens was made in the Valdai factory and looked beaten up from heavy usage before I got it!

[@anthonypc-248]

​@@Simonsutak Thanks Simon! Well, I'm taking a chance on a 44m that's been cleaned/serviced and comes with an adapter for around $100. Kind of wishing I'd realized sooner that 44m is not the same thing as the 44. But the 13 bladed 44 is more expensive. I'm sure this one will still be worth the money for me to explore with, and if I really crave the slightly swirlier bokeh I could more easily get a 44-2 in the future. Your videos are such a good resource. I can feel myself getting hooked on the vintage lens history and specs.

[@anthonypc-248]

@@Simonsutak Immediately looking forward to choosing something around a 28 or 35mm with swirly character next! Perhaps some super fast projector lens...

[@powerlurker]

there''s some fate in life ,I was just wondering these two lens

[@ochk846]

hi simon . does any noticeable yellowing shown on radioactive takumar 8 element?

[@Simonsutak]

Hi, Super Takumar 50mm f1.4 8 element lenses are generally not radioactive. However, my lenses do have a slight "vintage tint" to their colour rendering.

[@ochk846]

@@Simonsutak At your previous radioactive video, you mentioned you owned 998134 and 1378881 8 element. I am curious any difference between them in the color rendering. Will the 1378881 seem to be slightly more yellow in color? Besides, is it make sense that I buy one more earlier version which is 9xxxx? I have already owned 138xxx 8 element.

[@Simonsutak]

@@ochk846 Yes, I still have those two lenses. I've just placed both lenses up against a white sheet of paper, and to my eyes, the earlier lens's glass has a slightly warmer tint. But it's only very slightly warmer. Could easily a result of how this specific lens was stored over the decades and how the coatings reacted. Personally, I really don't need both lenses from an optical point of view. I only bought the 137**** as well because I found it in a thrift shop. I'd only buy a 9****** versus a 1****** if I found one for a "cheap" price (i.e. below what the 1****** go for on ebay). They are rarer, and probably better investments, if the price is right.

[@thinkingmushrooms2943]

mmmmmm, black paint Topcor. 🥰

[@seoulrydr]

I am so glad to know it's not just me 🤩

[@jordanebner8476]

Were you the one I bid against in the HiBid auction??

[@Simonsutak]

No!

[@sebastiang7183]

When compared to the Ultron look how much more contrast and 3D impression the Topcor produces wide open.

[@Simonsutak]

I don't know, I'm afraid, as I don't test the lenses for astrophotography. I recommend you search PentaxForums - there are some excellent photographers on that forum who do plenty of astrophotography.

[@vivianvaldi7871]

Sorry that you paid something for a bad rubber 58 1.8, and that you ended on a version of the 58 1.4 you find a bit desapointing. You should sale these two things and have nicer versions of these lens. Vintage lens hobby is a hard one, you can't allways be lucky. Btw I would be cautious with some 9900 version of the 58 1.8. With less than good color accuraty. The 11626 seems to have an out the world color accuraty, has your video show us. So this is what we know. And I don't know why something chnaged between the two series.

[@KNURKonesur]

It's also a big gamble if you get into adapting and rehousing cinema projection lenses for medium format cameras, technically all have similar designs (either Petzval or Double Gauss) but every brand and every series has very different rendering and it's really hard to find any samples or info about some brands.

[@Munichvintagelens]

Welcome to the topcor team, wait till you try the rest😂

[@joystickmusic]

Why does the electronic shutter have an effect on the bokeh?

[@KNURKonesur]

Electronic shutter doesn't cause the problem, it's the electronic front curtain shutter setting which is supposed to reduce shutter shake, but at fast shutter speeds messes up the picture backgrounds and affects bokeh

[@jakobsoegaard1886]

What did you pay for your 58mm 1.4 ?

[@dukeofdoom2]

Do you have any preferences in terms of video? Just curious what your favorite vintage lenses would be for a cinematic set.

[@Simonsutak]

I don't really use my lenses for cine work, or know cine lenses well enough, to have a meaningful opinion. I'm currently testing a new (and not yet launched) manual focus cine lens, so after that I might better understand what it takes to produce a good cine lens and the differences with conventional vintage/film camera lenses. Personally, I most often use a Sigma 30mm f1.4 for video work. I like the auto focus!