Re:ZERO 2x19: "The Permafrost of Elior Forest" // Reaction and Discussion

[@ben-san9677]

"And because of that, the girl is dead! You killed her! How awful! How awful! With my arm, with my fingers... You... You... You... You... You... [starts crying] killed her..." - Betelgeuse (1x15)

[@jahsehdwayne9525]

this should be pinned 🤷

[@aziqhaiqal7339]

The start of the best gurl desuu.

[@Cyndersparx]

OH GOD I NEVER REALIZED... augh..

[@priyambadabejladdumotu3389]

This episode just made me feel pity for Betelgeuse.....that I never thought I would ever feel

[@R3in_Ch]

at the ending part of the discussion where both of you saying how good is rezero and how you have been thinking about it even you doing your chores / work really music to my ears. not much people truly understands how good rezero is. thank you

[@zekron1718]

Well it is that type of show where you require understanding to fully appreciate the show . As a viewer you need to accept certain situation that character are put into and how they solve it and that is where many of us are put off by the behaviour and proceed to dislike a show.and you know what kind of show anime fans enjoy nowadays

[@MrTimeattacker]

many*

[@lucy5948]

Fun fact : Pandora's birthday is May 3rd. Tappei gave her this day as her birthday due to the biggest Pandora fan in the fandom. His birthday is May 3rd.

[@UFOinDisguise]

And to think that there's even more banger episodes coming..

[@badwulff]

God I can't wait for 23-24, those two are like a one-two punch of cinematographic awesomeness

[@ousmaailayoub5727]

Now if you go back to episode 15 and see the scene where Betelgeuse kills Rem you will understand what he was actually talking and crying about.

[@siginotmylastname3969]

There are actually mild hints about the seal in my opinion! The one you have in the anime but which is unexplained is it's not surrounded by snow: it instead drains the mana from the surroundings, killing surrounding plants and bleaching them of all colour. The role of mana in the world seems like a big mystery to be solved to me, it's in and composes everything in this world so a doorway through which surrounding mana just vanishes seems important. On the other hand we have the witch's miasma, most frequently mentioned around Satella but which ALSO emanates from witch cultists, sin archbishops and witches. Garfiel told Subaru about his miasma in season 2 part 1 but Subaru later concludes he might have been thinking it was because he met with Echidna: Echidna's miasma is why as she says most people would vomit at the sight of her, and Subaru also needed the sloth witch factor stabilising with her tea in order to talk with her completely normally. Miasma is related to mana but we don't know how. In general I think the apocalypse they wanted to prevent with the seal is more about the foundations of their world being shattered, in fact within the forest in the novel there's some sort of important difference in atmospheric mana mentioned when Fortuna's talking to Petelgeuse I think. So yeah I doubt the seal has to do with guarding just Satella or Emilia's parents, its history could be much older than that.

[@Adirbal]

54:35 suffering builds character --> suffering builds character --> suffering builds character --> suffering builds character --> suffering builds character --> ...

[@MrTimeattacker]

I forgot to mention its just not OTTO it's also Rem who is also not in tome...but since rem doesn't exist..so yeah rem is also the unknown which further confirmed by AL's dialogues towards rem from the cut content in season 1

[@obnbob]

20:00 It's interesting that you mention Otto's "insignificance" because not only is he clearly incredibly significant but that hardly seems like a substantive enough reason for him not to be written in the book if you think about it. Granted, it might not be the case, but some people think there might be a link between Pandora's powers and Otto not existing in the book. I love this theory because it makes a lot of sense and would be super cool.

[@siginotmylastname3969]

We really don't know much about the books though. I'm confused by how many assumptions are made about Pandora's ability, isn't the theory that she changes the contents of the gospels? But Regulus doesn't act like he wants to follow her orders or is her manipulated brainwashed pawn, and would also probably be aware enough of her power to know the gospels were changed by her. I think if she was just controlling the books and the mastermind behind the main witch cult faction, he would throw the book away, the fact he doesn't to me says Pandora isn't singlehandedly controlling them. Side story spoilers(prequels with no arc 5+ content). Then the oni sisters of the hidden village side story translations also make out that the witch cult became suddenly more extreme and less unified in the last decade, not when Pandora was around centuries ago to me...

[@obnbob]

@@siginotmylastname3969 Look, the entire theory as I know it is simply this: the original gospel (not the copies) is the Witch of Greed's power. It is a book that tells you the future. Whatever Pandora's power specifically is, it appears to be able to warp reality. If Otto never actually existed and he was entirely fabricated into reality by Pandora's ability it would then make sense that no prediction of the future could properly account for him. He could also just be an insignificant bug man and that's totally okay.

[@anusaukko6792]

I swear on my life, my boy Otto is cooking something absolutely heavenly in the kitchen. In a few arcs we're gonna find out some batshit crazy info about him trust

[@shaunmcdonough7844]

Remember that Fortuna stated that Amelia got her hair and eye colour from her dad, NOT her mum. She got her "kind eyes" and cute face from her mum. I think this makes it rather clear that Satella cannot be the mum since it her mum has different hair and eye colour no?

[@AxelOsortoCastro]

Also, you have to remember that the sanctuary only works on people of pure mixed race (50%/50%) so this denies that Satella could be her mother. One of my theories was that they were identical twins but the time periods do not match to support this idea. So the only thing I can think of is that Satella is Emilia's older half-sister. That the father had them with different women at different times and that the overprotection of Emilia is due to Satella's past.

[@ShreN_]

@@AxelOsortoCastro Ooooh good theory, I've never thought of that

[@hotox23-56]

I don’t remember any of the points they made since I read it a long time ago but the most plausible theory I heard was that Minerva the witch of wrath is Emilia’s mother. They made a lot of good points and they do look similar. Also it would also make sense that everyone calls her witches daughter since Minerva is one of them

[@AxelOsortoCastro]

​@@hotox23-56 Periods do not match for Minerva to be her mother. Miverna was either alive or killed by Satella 400 years before Subaru was summoned during the Great Calamity. I estimate that Emilia is between 18-21 years old physically but that chronologically she was frozen in the Ellior forest for just over 100 years. Actually, none of the Witches can be since they died approximately 300 before Emilia's birth. I think the Emilia-Miverna connection will have to do with Satella or Fortuna. Maybe they were great friends especially if you notice that the tea party. No witch seems to resent Satella except Echidna. Miverna even defends her from Subaru's scorn.

[@AxelOsortoCastro]

​@@ShreN_ That is information that Ram gives you when she is teaching Subaru the Luginica language in the 2nd arc. I haven't read the light novels. Its just due to rewatching ReZero over 5 times. You end up notice even the smallest details.

[@maharghjoshi228]

That's inosuke's voice actor right there, the range this man has holy moly

[@UncensoredScion]

The skill level of Yoshitsugu Matsuoka in this episode to slowly go from the man we've heard to the exact same cackling madman we met in episode 15 is just...it's a sublime level of skill and technique that you don't see much in Western productions. Reading subs may be a bit annoying at time but the acting is such a tremendous leap forwards that I'm perfectly okay with it.

[@helixb4724]

i have tried to get this across to many people, im glad someone else appreciates that performance

[@OmniscientlyMe]

Best part of this reaction is complete shock at little Lia's first kill. Your jaws hit the floor so much this episode, you should probably check for damage.

[@Emilis2023]

See a lot of people arguing or commenting on what is and isn't possible regarding timelines and character connections. I think it's important in this series to remember that pretty much no one is a reliable narrator in a story with resetting timelines, monsters that can erase people's existence and memories, and villains who can erase their own existence from people's minds. So unless it's been finalized and clarified in the WN's (in which case, please don't say), then I take everyone's calculations and speculations with an enormous grain of salt.

[@bryangarcia5207]

That's a pretty good way to see Re Zero. Having a theory and trying desperately to find info for it will lead to confirmation bias and for info that counters said theory to be ignored.

[@siginotmylastname3969]

​@@bryangarcia5207I find the best theory crafting is just dismantling existing theories myself 😅

[@bryangarcia5207]

​@@siginotmylastname3969 Basically. The only theory I believe is probably not even a theory and moreso just hiding it from our protagonists. Slight spoiler ahead The Sirius theory

[@ShotterGames]

@@bryangarcia5207 That one is going to be pretty easy to confirm when we get the VAs lol

[@lehyplay6961]

​@ShotterGames That theory is basically just a truth that wasn't explicitly stated to be one lol. They even have the exact same height in the databooks lol

[@MrDarkneah]

10:15 first one i saw talk about emilia hair thing insane reaction

[@VV-xe4ym]

33:10 Well her name is Pandora and she wants to open a door/box. It's kinda cliche isn't it? Also since Emilia was sealed away soon after, does she represent hope?

[@bobfrancis123]

12:43 I don't think I've ever seen Anna so filled with hate of a character before. But yes, Pandora is pure inhumanity incarnate. Contrasting that with her soft, sweet voice, the sinister loli is truly and deeply unsettling. Yes, we will meet her again. When? Only Tappei knows.

[@Zonca2]

All witches are different kinds of inhumanity. Or perhaps one aspect of humanity turned up to the MAX, disregarding all others.

[@WithoutException]

Subaru meeting Pandora: “Ah, so it’s the same type of stand as Star Platinum”

[@bryangarcia5207]

Based on these episodes, the Re Zero community theorizes that Pandora's power may overwrite her own actions. This would explain most of her abilities. Such as Regulus, basically say she never brought him and choose what to keep of her undone action. Also why her combat strength is non existant as far as we know. Just undoes her death and can't really create an attack and uses other for offense such as bringing the Black Serpent and Regulus and giving Geuse and illusion. Also why she can't force Emilia directly with her powers.

[@Bexploserpro]

(I'm anime only, no spoilers pls) Well Pandora might not be a fighter, but smart individuals are always the most dangerous. Also Pandora is a Witch, she should have some strength at least. We saw her bury Regulus into the ground with her hand. And Witches should posses insane amount of mana, i heard from someone that mana affects someone physical attributes too, so idk.

[@bryangarcia5207]

​@Bexploserpro Witches don't inherently recieve a lot of mana and strength varies. Here is some non spoiler information that was shared by Tappei around this time The Archbishops and witches don't share any differences. Only title. So one group isn't stronger than the other. Only individuals stronger than the other. For example, if the dead witches fought, Sekmet the which of Sloth would easily solo all the dead witches. Only witch we know of with magical capabilities is Echidna, and that is Echidna only strength. Her authority is her tome of wisdom which is a true tome and has information on everything but she refuses to use to learn info. That is how the trials are made too, using information from her tome. And Pandora is indeed described as a non fighter and even when she pushed Regulus it did 0 dmg. Also Tappei even revealed Echidna so physically weak she can't do a single push up. Most the witches are pretty weak, but their abilities are just raging calamities

[@Bexploserpro]

@@bryangarcia5207 i appriciate this info. Thx

[@SilverYPheonix]

She doesn't need fighting abilities, the world itself fights for her. Subaru should hate her more than anyone else once he gets to know her lol

[@Bexploserpro]

@@SilverYPheonix my theory is that everytime Subaru said he challenged "Fate". In S1 mostly, i think it's a foreshadowing that Fate is related to Pandora and he's gonna fight her one day.

[@Emilis2023]

Been pressing that refresh button for this one!

[@lordzeref8175]

9:16 mmm....i wonder what character that is a witch is always angry....🤣🤣🤣

[@Isopiem]

maybe the real elior forest was the friends we made along the way

[@d_wiseman3409]

Firstly, I am so glad you guys enjoy Re:Zero as much as you do. It's so great to hear your thoughts and discussions. They are really a highlight. Secondly, is that I had similar thoughts. "Where the f*ck is Pandora". And then I realized. With her power? She could be always there. We don't see her, we don't hear her, we don't know what she's doing, but for all we know she could've been right there, standing in front of every character in season 1, plotting, or even doing whatever she wished. Nobody would know. She could make it so that her changes were a natural part of the world, and then poof, gone. And that is truly terrifying... Or people's crack theories are right, and she's Otto xd.

[@seynoonrae2474]

Translation error. It is not "the witches daughter", but more akin to "a witches daughter" so from the obvious "The ONE witch" to who knows which witch.

[@LloydRyannS]

Subaru failed the second trial because of how his present has multiple outcomes. It will exhaust his will unless he closes his emotion and becomes a psychopath to absorb all the trauma. Emilia got emotional baggage in the past, after overcoming the trial of the past it will be easy to accept the present She will pass the trials.

[@lucy5948]

The one who manipulate fate(Subaru) VS The one who manipulate reality(Pandora) would go crazy FR Also fun fact : Echidna said that Pandora's authority is only good for defensive and weak ASF when it comes to offensive... Same to Subaru's RbD.

[@Bexploserpro]

I don't read manga, so pls no spoilers. But i theorise about Subaru's S1 dialogs, when he challenges Fate. "Bring it on, Fate-sama !". I feel like it was foreshadowing that that Pandora was referenced as Fate and being challenged (reality set in motion is technicaly Fate). I feel like it's some kind of tease that he will fight her at some point and he gotta defeat Fate-sama.

[@albatrosshanging]

Now watch Petelgeuse in Season 1 Episode 15 and pay close attention to his monologues.

[@SilverYPheonix]

Ohh Ohh The lore drop, the moves, they can't handle it!!! xD

[@mtndewfan66]

"I love it when an author is willing to put the main character through something horrible" So Berserk after Re:Zero?

[@zatzu9618]

Great episode

[@handtomouth4690]

Interesting comparison between Subaru ans Pandora. One way to put it is that Pandora can control and stay in her current timeline, or depending on how time works in rezero, can manipulate her and other people's personal timelines, meanwhile Subaru has to die to either restart the entire world from a specific point, or jump into a different world at a specific point in time (don't know if this distinction has gotten fully answered yet in the WN/LN) I feel like the rules and powers are still too ambiguous for an accurate comparison atm.

[@SilverYPheonix]

Subaru doesn't "jump" to other worlds jfc, it's the SAME timeline.

[@RedDevilAxel]

Emilia's age is 7 in this flashback. Her present age is 18, real physical age is 100+, and mental age is 14. It's impossible for Fortuna to be Puck, as Puck is a male spirit who was created by Echidna just like Beatrice 400 years ago. Can't wait for next episode to see a special someone appear 👀

[@bryangarcia5207]

Quick clarification is that her physical age is 18 ever since she got out the ice

[@dankmemer6576]

Correct me if I'm wrong but pretty sure it's never been specified where/when Puck is from in the anime, or at least not yet, so that 2nd part might be a spoiler

[@manofcultura]

@@bryangarcia5207for legal purposes of course

[@bloody5081]

We don't know her real age and we don't know when she was born. But she's most definitely 100% 400+ years old if you use logic and your brain a little. Emilia's mother is a HUMAN and Minerva knows her mother from 400 years ago..... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. This evidence is enough that Emilia must be 400+ years old. Unless her mother is like Roswaal and taking over her children's bodies of course. Also what's even a bigger proof that Emilia must be 400+ years old is that Echidna specifically made Puck 400 years ago for Emilia. And Puck was searching for Emilia for 300 years.....

[@RedDevilAxel]

​​​​@@bryangarcia5207Spoiler Alert : You're right, it's only 18 in Arc 4. It's not 19 until the 1 year timeskip that happens at the start of Arc 5.

[@bryangarcia5207]

Btw, remember that there is only 1 witch factor for each sin. In this flashback we saw Regulus corneas, and he has the Greed Witch Factor. We know from Betty that she sees Puck as a sibling and they are both artificial spirits created by Echidna. Therefore at the time of the trial Puck and Betty already exist

[@Prushbinger]

It was never stated that it’s only 1 factor per sin, in fact, arcs 5/6 will disprove that

[@bryangarcia5207]

​@@Prushbinger1. Tag as spoiler. Information I revealed was stated at this time 2. Spoiler ahead Gluttony is stated to be a special case because the Witch factor is shared between the siblings and they all have the exact same authority because they share it. Regulus and Echidna have completely different abilites.

[@Prushbinger]

First of all, I do not think I stated anything that is worth spoiler tagging. Second, what you are saying wasn’t stated. Additionally, the gluttony authorities differ from Daphne’s, just like Regulus’ and Echidna’s, I’m starting to think you spoiled yourself and haven’t actually read the source material, that’s why the inconsistencies in your words

[@bryangarcia5207]

​@Prushbinger 1. Spoiler is mentioning something that will happen even or in this case alluded 2. Spoilers ahead I have read it, and am saying the Gluttony siblings share the same authority. Witch factor that Gluttony and Daphne have is the same one, but authorities are different between the two groups. The trio however shares the same authority just represent different aspects of it although it still works the same

[@Prushbinger]

​@@bryangarcia5207 My issue is that you're literally spreading misinformation and masking corrections as spoilers. Also, I don't want to digress to discussing the "siblings", first of all, because they really aren't. And if you've read the novel, then you must understand that there is probably more than 1 envy factor, which again disproves what you said earlier

[@blackcid]

Something that catched my attention is that Pandora did nothing but speak, they just killed themselves. 😐

[@seitto_]

and used perception manipulation

[@bryangarcia5207]

Yeah as someone else has said, Satella was not killed, she was sealed. So basically Tella-chan still alive

[@Duall8]

Tbh, it was probably this intro that the moderator didn't want you watching. There are definitely spoilers (and a little more blatant (but not too surprising) than the usual Re:Zero intro spoilers). I do love the foreshadowing that Pandora can also mess with people's sight with her "pretending" to be Emilia. Add on top of Geuse's instability from the low compatibility witch factor and presto.

[@Lone1Wolf8]

Thanks for not watching the opening yet. It's best to watch it after you finish the season for spoiler reasons. I've commented this before and got pushback but I'm glad a mod let y'all know anyway. Great reaction as always.

[@MrTimeattacker]

Great reaction and discussion. So yes pandora meddled with false memories and thus Emilia was having constant nightmares after she woke up until she made contract with puck who sealed away his memories and thus her struggle with trials.(Putting away from problems/past instead of facing it head on. Puck's fault from 1 perspective but Emilia could also have fallen apart if there was no one to support her. in lonely outcast life..so ehhh i won't blame him too much) There's actually whole clause detailing Emilia's contract with puck..will paste it if get a hold of it. Echidna is very hard to get an angle of what's she after ,does she really mean good or evil? Biggest Reveal secretly was that since otto was the one that was unknown not subaru..so there is a vague mention somehow that alludes to someone like subaru,The tome is a guide to one's most desired future and it isn't detailed...its like at certain do this and that..etc Will talk more about roswaal talk next ep 0:27 "Confusing & alluring" blame anime they cut out almost all of world building elements nor does anime clarify something properly outside of cut content....and on top of that s2 p2 did many scenes dirty and came off flat and fights were done even more dirty much much cutdown and even that was mediocrity in animation. Frieren 1 single panel is turned and expanded into full fledged fight with incredible animation and here we can't even animate properly the massively cutdowned and not explained properly fights choreography. Satella was sealed beyond the great waterfall....Elior forest seal is different....just to mention Emilia's past is 100 years ago....satella rampage/sanctuary is 400 years ago. I just didn't like the direction for this episode personally like emilia's is talking about taking the elves outside world and show them...but in past episodes outside of few dialogues anime doesn't show they are secluded from outside world...etc kind of like current sanctuary

[@aohige]

Pandora's fake politeness and disingenuousness really does define "vanity". She is so slimy

[@kei6121]

I think her power is all about powerfull illusions and that she isn't even here in the first place, same for Regulus

[@aohige]

I don't think Pandora's power is necessarily more powerful than other witches. While it seems very broken, it's also very limited in scope. It seems to be limited to specificity of incidents. Whereas some of the other witches powers have consequences at global scale. I mean, Gluttony could pretty much end the entire civilized world had she desired to.

[@bryangarcia5207]

Keep in mind: Pandora called Emilia witchs daughter Later when she confronts Fortuna, she calls Emilia Fortuna's daughter. Immediately Fortuna said Emilia is her brothers daughter Then Pandora says "ahh, I was mistaken"

[@SmthPositive_]

Poor geuse

[@RadRabzz]

I know y'all don't read comments but this friend of yours that does every single choice in bg3 should get a medal of honor and a job as a pro game tester

[@JoeySouth]

You guys should read the wed novel or light novels. The anime is great but the books are amazing. The next two arks are incredible.

[@anandpachpinde3125]

👍👍👍👍

[@LxDization]

It's a shame they've smoothed out the corners in the way Echidna destroyed EMT's childish ideals and PoV like it was in the Web Novel

[@NaNabat51]

I like you guys and your indepth discussions. But people who think emilia is satella's daughter must have removed their brains and put it aside. In anime they literally say that she got her hair color and eye color from her dad. Even if you ignore all this, you guys really think satella would crush her own daughter's heart infront of subaru, obsess over subaru saying "aishteru", strongest form of love confession, fondle his heart , tell him that she was saved by him. In novels its even more detailed as she literally says subaru kissed her and kept her happy during her worst times. But for some reason you guys are convinced

[@joaoalmeida99]

oh hi

[@TrueThanny]

01:46 You should never watch any anime intro until you've finished watching the season. You've already been spoiled so many times in this show by bits in the intro.

[@NL-D96]

Algorithm comment

[@Dan-ks3tr]

EARLY

[@betelgeuse-romanee-conti-desu]

Small correction Satella(she was sealed ) and Pandora are still alive with body and soul Echinda and other 5 are alive because their souls are not dead ref witch's tea party and (ref cut content chapters between s2 and s3 of special character)

[@bryangarcia5207]

No. Echidna and the rest are dead dead.

[@betelgeuse-romanee-conti-desu]

I will tell you why echinda and remaining witches are alive with my theory only if you are LN reader

[@bryangarcia5207]

​@betelgeuse-romanee-conti-desu I am a WN reader and spoiler ahead Only Echidna could count as alive. The others are dead and just recreations from memory. Only Echidna soul is actually there. And even then it is not super sure if that is her original soul as her tomb self and her many other versions exist

[@dontassociate]

Intros bad have spoilers. like i said she has a terrible personality