REACTING to Robert Sapolsky on Modern Wisdom

[@danielcompton3492]

I think you did a good job with the critique. Here's a digression that might seem irrelevant to the video. At the place where I work I asked several people (physicians included) if they had ever read the book 1984. To my surprise, most had not even heard of the book. Why do I bring this up? Because in my mind the world that Sapolsky is gunning for seems very much a slippery slope into, if not an Orwellian then surely a Huxlian, a bad dystopian novel. One question I would like to ask Robert Sapolsky is why he characterizes the second half of his book as a "feeble attempt." Could he have done better? If not, then why? Keep up the good work Alex, I know that like 99% of the videos on KZbin are telling everyone they are not free, but keep it up because it's not only refreshing to hear the other side of any argument, but probably also for the likelihood that people are getting their info increasingly from algorithmic-controlled places like KZbin instead of searching stuff out in books themselves. Also, in looking at what you review on some of your other videos, I can't help but suggest you read "A Confession" by Leo Tolstoy (if you haven't already), I think that might be right up your alley, plus its super short. It's all about Tolstoy's journey from Atheism to Theism.

[@alexmostella]

Daniel, I just read “Confessions & Other Religious Writings” at the tail end of 2023. It was incredible & I plan on doing a review on it. I don’t think your comment about “1984” was irrelevant or out of place, at all…it’s a great litmus test to see if someone has thought through their ideas & is aware of the very real incentive that power structures have to encroach on freedom. Sadly, for all of the interviews on this topic that I’ve watched, I’ve never heard someone clearly challenge determinist thinkers on these subjects… Appreciate you checking out the video 👊🏻

[@thegreen2504]

To your point on right and wrong, the law has nothing to do with right and wrong. It has to do with keeping a functioning society. Morality and the law often coincide because things which harm society we are likely to find morally reprehensible but it isn’t always the case and they aren’t directly connected. As for who gets to decide what rules society needs to function, depends on your country. In Iran it’s the Ayatollah in the Us ostensibly it’s the will of the majority limited by certain constitutional protections To go back to the machine analogy, a computer has code and rules that it needs to function. There’s no morality to those rules. A society which allows murder wouldn’t survive regardless of your opinion on murder morally so it needs to be illegal. Enforcing your morality through law is exactly what liberal democracy was designed to prevent

[@seneca451]

Alex, how much trainiing to you have in Neuroscience? Have you done behavioral research with mammals? What is the basis of your opinions other than.....your opinions?

[@Ana-cc5jb]

Alex, please think logically, when you get rid of the belief in free will or the illusion of it, that also deletes the concept of blame praise punishment award ego resentment superiority inferiority etc. On a fundamental level people will no longer hate one another. “Be kind” is no longer a bumper sticker or tshirt logo, it is the only option for anyone to feel and be. Morality and understanding of one another goes up. Yes perhaps it’ll take many generations and growing pains to get there but once we do as a humanity life will be immensely better for all. We need to teach our children the truth about humanity and who/what we are as a species. Also, please don’t say this is just a 14 year olds thoughts. He’s been researching it for 4 decades. Please don’t put miss information out there bc the information Robert Sapolsky, Sam Harris, Gregg Caruso, Nick Vale and many more of the like are putting out there is humanity shifting in the best way possible. I’m writing this as I watch so editing: yes we are just meat sacks, some more lucky than others. The best we can hope for is have a good experience at life, and to create a better future for the humans that come after us. Your criticism of Sapolsky’s research and claims is doing the exact opposite of creating a better future for our children and children’s children, albeit i don’t think this is your intention. You are interpreting the fairy dust portion wrong, and took it out of context bc you didn’t play the rest. He’s saying anyone who succeeds whether they work hard or not are still a product of biology environment and randomness non of which are in their control. Yes a basketball player works hard and makes it and another one doesn’t and doesn’t make it. Figure they’re both the same height. What made one work hard and the other not? biology (what he was born with, brain chemistry), environment (how he grew up, so many factors, example supportive parents), randomness (example: happened to have a great coach in high school) - none of these things are in the basketball players control, he lucked out while the other one did not. There’s no fairy dust to influence or give him the free will to act differently than he did. The successful players ego and the unsuccessful players feelings of inferiority are unwarranted. Yes obviously the successful NBA player wouldn’t like this argument bc of ego. Our world runs on toxic unwarranted ego and creates anger and resentment. Plenty of people cannot escape their unfortunate biology and environment and feel sad resentful over it. It’s not their fault they were raised or had bad genetics or so many other “unlucky” circumstances. One can consider themselves lucky but leave the ego behind. Or, one can consider themselves unlucky and leave the sadness behind. Only once we recognize that we are fundamentally all equal will we all thrive as a human race. Him saying he can only carry it out 1% of the time has no relevance. He’s not disagreeing with what he knows, he’s just being truthful bc we are still living in today’s world and context. But nevertheless he does plenty of work educating us in hopes of shifting the way we raise and teach our kids so all can have a better future free of blame praise judgement punishment award ego resentment superiority inferiority and all other things creating anxiety and difficulties for so many. We are equal just some more lucky than others. Once we understand this we will strive to do good by our fellow human without needing the ego boost or praise we are so used to today. Sapolsky is a humble genius. For you to call him a wolf in sheep’s clothing is outrageous. I’m sad to say you are the sheep in wolfs clothing for saying something so awful but, alas, it’s not your fault, you also are a product of biology environment and randomness. Yes the domino of humanity is determined, but we can still spread correct knowledge to make life better for all.

[@trychris1918]

Hi, i was wondering what you meant by "Only once we recognize that we are fundamentally all equal will we all thrive as a human race." and "We are equal just some more lucky than others. Once we understand this we will strive to do good by our fellow human without needing the ego boost or praise we are so used to today." What is it that you use to measure humans, and come to the conclusion that we are all equal. And why do you believe that theese equal humans have any value, if "we are just meat sacks" why should we care about ethics if there is no system, higher order, god, or anything above the physical realm, i think that many of the things said make sense, if we just look at biology, but from a biological view there seems to be no right or wrong, because that's not biology. I was wondering where the moral statements came from, if we have no choice, god or purpose.

[@trychris1918]

4:45 I don't have a very fixed world view, but it would seem that you have the correct knowledge and i am simlply wondering what shoulders this heavy claim lays on?

[@Ana-cc5jb]

⁠​⁠@@trychris1918hi thanks for asking. It seems to me that we are equal on a fundamental level bc no one chooses their genetics or upbringing or random events that occur to make one who they are. We are equal bc we are a product of biology, environment, and randomness - again non of which are in our control or our choice in the way we think it is. It would take many generations but once humans truly understand this and teach their children truth is when humans can peacefully live side by side and thrive as a whole. Think of the things that trigger anger and resentment in society. Much of it is based in toxic inflated egos. The have and have not’s. A lot of other things too but ultimately if humans understand it is NOT our choice then they would be willing to judge less and be understanding more. Also the fact that free will is an illusion has for most part moved out of philosophy and into science so for people that dont believe are not believing it on the basis of fear of the unknown. Sadly, this fear is unwarranted bc society would be much better off to stop deluding themselves. Also, atheism/agnosticism + disbelief in free will does not equal no purpose. There’s plenty of purpose, live humbly happily and ego free and create a better world for future humans and animals. Currently we are living in Modern Medieval times and aren’t even aware of it. Prisons treat humans inhumanly when their crimes are not their choice the way we think it is, likewise successful people live in the lap of luxury when that also was not in essence their own doing. Everything everyone does is determined by past events that date back to the beginning of time and also our biology environment and randomness- none of which is in our control. Also, I don’t know how religious you are but my understanding is that the Bible teaches that we have free will in order to truly love god, that free will frees us from being God's puppets and enables us to become God's partners - this is the nonsense the Bible feeds us to keep our belief in him, forcing us to believe he’s a good and all knowing god, and all the suffering is our own fault and not his. Free will doesn’t exist and neither does god. Our erroneous belief in free will is the root cause of our suffering. A favorite Robert Sapolsky quote of mine “This is a world in which most people are paying the price of a belief in free will.” This couldn’t be more true but the problem is people have difficulty seeing what life would be like if people finally accepted that we don’t have free will bc they are viewing it through today’s context. Think logically about it, what god, where is this god, who is Jesus, it’s all made up. Same with free will, every thought that enters your mind had a thought that came before that one and another before that one for forever before, from the beginning of time, try to separate the thoughts. It’s impossible, there’s no magical entity to get in the way of your next thought, there’s no free will in that although it seems there is. I’m not sure I’m communicating this correctly, but I encourage you to watch some more Sapolsky on free will KZbin videos. I’ve watched hours of them. He makes the point very clear. Nevertheless this IS the most fundamentally important matters to consider and think about bc it affects EVERYTHING mankind is facing.

[@Ana-cc5jb]

@@trychris1918this interview isn’t Sapolsky but it’s a good one speaking to societal implications. 34 mins long kzbin.info/www/bejne/baSvaHSEpq5qgpYsi=2lRLusRslP72l6_z

[@lowbarbillcraig3689]

> deletes the concept of blame praise punishment award ego resentment superiority inferiority etc. From what I've heard Sapolsky says you have no free will now PARTLY because the blame, praise and punishment as a baby, toddler and child shaped your actions now. IN other words, you have no free will BECAUSE[1] your rich parents abused you (reinforcement) or your poor parents praised you (reinforcement). My understanding is that Sapolsky in no way argues reinforcement research (Skinner or otherwise) is wrong. [1] among many other reasons

[@hom-hn2gf]

concepts like"creation", "image of god", "faith" once instilled accompany us for the rest of our lives. They go in with the mother's milk and only leave with our last breath. Peculiar that Sapolsky would even attempt to present an other idea to someone who believes he was made in the image of a specific god. Has there ever been a greater belief in absence of evidence?

[@annaynely]

Sapolsky needs alot of patience.

[@PaulEEish]

Many problems with his theory; justification of not only quarantines, but arguably eugenics....

[@alexmostella]

Absolutely, eugenics is the definitive conclusion to his argument. Biological determinism implies that genes determine outcomes. Therefore the only way to change the outcome is to change the gene.

[@PaulEEish]

@@alexmostella I just found you and am enriched already.

[@PaulEEish]

@@alexmostella And, an extreme application of Plato's Republic...