Reacting To THAT Tonewood Video | What Does The Air Guitar Test Prove?!

#guitars #tonewoodamp
Before you say I don't have proof and don't know what I'm talking about, check these out:
My Les Paul "wood experiment": • GUITAR MYTH-BUSTING | ...
My guitar neck swap experiment: • Does THE NECK change T...
There's a new "does wood even matter on electric guitars" video here on youtube. It's made by Jim Lill and it's a series of tests and comparisons.
It's super interesting, you should watch it. My conclusion is very different than Jim's though, let me explain why. Enjoy the video!
Here is Jim's video: • Tested: Where Does The...
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--- The line of truth: Is this actually a paid review? No it isn't but I use affiliate links in the description box. (I update this line for every video).
Timestamps:
0:00 introduction
0:42 INTRO PLAYING | Tele, Treble Booster, Toxic Twins, M1, D1
1:41 What do people mean when talking about "the tone"
3:06 My videos on testing the relevance of wood
3:45 COMPARISON | Two Les Pauls with the same pickups and bridge
4:31 Some actual physics regarding vibrations
5:41 COMPARISON | Same strat body, 3 different necks
6:25 What is ACTION - REACTION ?
7:13 Did the guitars in Jim's video sound the same?
8:44 What did I hear in Jim's tests
10:15 So does wood matter at all?
11:02 PLAYING | Tele, Treble Booster, Double Trouble, D1 delay
12:11 Ola Englund's and Glenn Fricker's comments...
15:25 PLAYING | Tele, Treble Booster
16:02 Ohh, the Air Guitar is not really an "air" guitar...
Gear used in this video:
(the Bitly links are Thomann affiliate links)
-Fender Telecaster CS '53 reissue bit.ly/2KFVJld)
-Gibson Les Paul CS '58 reissue bit.ly/2FxKvek
-Barocsi "Frankenstrat"
-Killing Floor Treble Booster: / killingflooreffects
-Honey Bee Double Trouble: bit.ly/33COaU3
-Kasleder Toxic Twins: bit.ly/2VJRDiO
-UAFX Golden Reverb: bit.ly/3vS36JN
-Walrus Audio M1 modulation: bit.ly/3ogMDgV
-Walrus Audio D1 V2 delay: bit.ly/3G228iP
-REVV Dynamis 7/40 head: bit.ly/2IxwoId
-Universal Audio OX BOX bit.ly/2IyOeuj
-Two Notes Captor X: bit.ly/33FPfcW
-One Control Agamidae switcher: bit.ly/2YZgiib
-Cordial CRI series cables: bit.ly/2XiVLBR
-Evidence Audio patch cables: bit.ly/2Ixylo1
Other gear I use in my videos:
-Harley Benton Fusion-II Roasted SSP bit.ly/31FVawf
-Gibson Les Paul CM 2015 - heavily modified "Junior"
-Barocsi Troublecaster
-Kasleder Time Trap delay: bit.ly/3jQkha6
-Coppersound Foxcatcher: coppersoundpedals.com
-Walrus Audio D1 Delay: bit.ly/2W4McqU
-Supro Tremolo
-REVV G2: bit.ly/2NbpV9R
-Walrus Audio Lillian phaser: bit.ly/3czfxB8
-Analogman King of Tone analogman.com
-Tate FX Raise the Dead Ge: tatefx.co.uk
-Dunlop Gypsy Fuzz pedal: bit.ly/2VKw4K0
-J Rockett Archer overdrive: bit.ly/2Ges1z8
-Morgan 1x12 cab Twilight: bit.ly/2KFihDq
-NUX SOS Looper bit.ly/31TMxPx
The speech mic:
-SENNHEISER MKH 416: bit.ly/2w1EAMP
Audio Interface:
-Audient iD44: bit.ly/2Jo73zN
Check out the Thomann Music channel for some wicked guitar videos:
/ musikhausthomann
Cheers,
Kris

[@teacherofteachers1239]

When I play my solid body electric guitar, I am typically standing with the guitar pressed against my stomach. Following this video's analysis of Jim's air guitar, I understand now that the vibrations of the guitar are transmitted to my belly, and back to the guitar and strings again, and transmitted to the pickups. Nothing can compare to the epic resonance and sustain of my belly fat.

[@gentelmanjunkie542]

now that's the best burn I read so far haha

[@vladv5126]

Tonebelly is real, people.

[@IronSteam1]

Give us the exact dimensions of your belly so we all can try to replicate your lovely tone with ours.

[@Dead_Remnants]

Lmao 😂

[@ejb5034]

Your body is damper, not a resonator.

[@SasquatchLovesMe]

Yes, it proved that for many people, long held myths in their heads are impossible to abandon.

[@rentblop8070]

What he proved is that the "tone wood" is far, far less important than online forums (and youtube videos) want to make us believe and that you can influence the actual sound of the guitar way more by just changing the pickup height. We should focus more on how the instrument actually feels and if we, the guitarists, resonate with it. I stopped caring about "tone wood" a long time ago. I care only about the look, the stability of the neck, if the frets are somewhat level and if the guitar stays in tune. These components are important because they decide how often I will pick up an instrument.

[@BrickNewton]

I don't even know what wood my guitar is. It plays great, sounds great and thats all I care about. I have never thought of asking what wood it was, I just see if I like playing it and how it feels and sounds

[@swardmusic]

They also decide how often you will gig with it 👍🏻

[@chrississon5954]

@@swardmusic yeah, hardware and maybe body type, finish take on a different importance if you travel and gig.

[@filmmac3]

yes! amen brother. The wood makes only subtlest difference. Hardly noticeable. (for electric guitars)

[@AbsoluteSkycaptain]

The only reason I care about the wood my guitar is made of is weight. Swamp ash and basswood will always be my go-to, cheap and light is all I need.

[@snap-off5383]

Well his test quite clearly showed that the pickup distance to string was FAR more involved in tone than the wood. i.e. your difference in tones in your experiment and most out there is far more to do with non-identical pickup placements than they are wood tone. When you DO isolate that part, you can realize how meaningless it is.

[@musicproductionvideos5019]

I've been playing & recording for 30 years... and could not hear a difference in his examples. Maybe I don't have golden ears or something but I would not bet on myself in a blindfolded test. Then even i a full mix situation it wold be impossible for me.

[@erickelley9888]

Nothing wrong with that. if anything it's an advantage over other guitarists lol

[@kennycube5126]

An honest assessment, bravo! You do have golden ears my friend. You're just not letting ignorant (no offence meant here) & biased people sway you. It really would be interesting to see how all the (relevant) youtubers performed under actual test conditions in a double blind experiment. I think there may be some rapid re-jigifications of their immovable stand points.

[@bonaconlodoset9264]

Its very minimal the only thing im not sur is that they are set up the same

[@sanspoint]

I think people who are so adamant about tone wood are like people who have perfect pitch or tetrachromacy. Just because I can't hear so much of a difference doesn't mean it's not a thing.

[@NMPshadow]

​@@sanspoint nah, thats not comparable at all. The two things you describe can be described by physics and whatever this guy here has taken, it aint a class in physics, cause his take on newton was more blasphemic than any hard metal riff.

[@rong648]

Jim's video proved what I have been saying for years. The characteristics (tone woods) that affect the sound of an acoustic guitar are not the same for an electric guitar.

[@juansolo94]

That quite obvious 😂 no one need Jim to probe that.

[@rong648]

@@juansolo94 I have a friend that doesn't understand.

[@michael1]

@@rong648 We have a guitar industry that doesn't want anyone to understand. The irony is really just how shit wood is. You look at any gigging guitarists that gigged for years with the same guitar(s) they're shit. Falling to pieces. Dinged and bashed. Wood is not a good material to make anything really. Obviously the guitar industry needs to sell wood, so they do 2 things in that respect that only a stupid customer base would fall for (a) They sell the idea that broken wood is more valuable. They literally make guitars, smash them to pieces and then sell it for £10k - and instead of saying "WTF? Are you morons" people actually buy them. It's the equivalent of going into Porsche and buying a car they have in the corner that has been crashed into a wall 5 times and someone has taken a shit in the passenger seat and instead of £100k it's £500k. Although to be fair I think Mat Anderson's viewers would buy one - but at least they'd fix it not act like it was special. And (b) The whole tone wood thing. Guitars are junk - spend the least you can to get the parts that matter (and we know the short list) set up to play. Don't sell your house to get one. And if you practise a lot, get really good at guitar and other people watch you play then someone will come along and give you all the guitars you ever want for free anyway. In fact, today, even if you're shit at playing, Rob Chapman will give you a free guitar so long as you have a few viewers. Protip : if you pay for your own guitars then you don't need an expensive one.

[@timkellaway6183]

We all knew that WELL before Jim's Video mate hahahaha

[@rong648]

@@timkellaway6183 That's what I said.

[@joseislanio8910]

"chime" "spongy" "rubbery" "overtones". Can you measure it? Perceive it in a blind test that you don't know previously etch which guitar is which? What part of the wave shape produces it? Funny how the good tonewoods are coincidentally the ones that the big brands had cheap and available in early production.

[@LordNerevar1]

Simply on swapping strat necks - Maybe there is a difference in whole guitar vibrations, but how does that affect the tone is either unmeasurable or the tone affection is so small that's in fact negligible in a full mix. I didn't hear a real difference between those necks.

[@measuringcup7080]

Yep. "Tonewood" only exists because companies need an excuse to charge $800-$2k+ for instruments not even worth half that. People are in denial. They need to hang on to the tonewood excuse to try and convince themselves they didn't fall to a marketing gimmick and fooled into wasting their money

[@Saurondor]

@@measuringcup7080 beware because there's the flip side of the coin. The cheap guitar builders who will try to convince you their five bucks worth of wood sold for 120 bucks as a guitar will sound just as good as anything else if you practice enough and put 400 bucks worth of electronics. Don't for one minute believe your high investment on pickups will sound the same on any guitar you pick off the internet. It won't and you might get a sub par return on your investment in electronics.

[@gentelmanjunkie542]

haha well said

[@gentelmanjunkie542]

@@Saurondor if the frets are level it'll sound fantastic

[@fluffykittynoodles]

Yeah, I think it was a pretty objective test to see where the tone was. It sounds like you misunderstood the point of the videos by Jim. Jim did a stellar job by not influencing his audience by sharing his opinion on any of the results, just steadily removing more and more until there was a minimum. The side by side comparisons really opened my eyes to the fact that you can get very, very close to a tone you're seeking with just electronics and a setup. I consider this a myth busted on the "magick" of tonewoods.

[@Shaylok]

I don't know, man. I really loved the tone of the air guitar. Air provides spectacular tone. Just need to figure out the right measure carbon to oxygen to replicate what he did. We should also be testing the tone of gasses like helium, methane, hydrogen, etc...

[@fahrenheit1304]

Different Jims and Johns - different results. Why don't u play on carbon guitars?

[@asdfjkl981]

@@fahrenheit1304 Why do we not play on solid carbon guitars? Carbon aka Diamonds? May be because nobody found a guitar sized diamond yet and even if, it would probably not get cut into a guitar shape. and it is very hard to work with. try cutting a thread into a diamond. and it is heavy as fuck compared to wood a very light electric guitar has around 6 lbs the same thing in diamond would have 21 lbs.

[@fahrenheit1304]

@@asdfjkl981 maybe because timber is quite fine material, in point of view acoustic (way how sound waves are going through the material). There are many comparisons sounds of acoustic guitars with different wood.

[@asdfjkl981]

@@fahrenheit1304 what?

[@gilbertocruz1683]

In 25 years playing a lot of different guitars I realized that the difference only exists to your ears mostly...in the band mix, on a recording session or a live gig, pleople (even musicians) can't tell anything about that...I still remember when everybody used to say "Man, check this 59 Les Paul tone Jimmy Page has on this record" and years later everybody was "wtf?" when Jimmy came out and said he had recorded a lot of that with a Telecaster...it doesn't matter...spend your time playing the gear you have 😀😀😀

[@johanneschristopherstahle3395]

Well, not exactly everybody. I remember people talking about Jimmy Page's tone and that it reminds them more of a small amp being driven by a single coil guitar, probably a Telecaster... But most people got the amp wrong. Anyways, it's true that most people won't be able to tell the difference. But it can be important to you as a player. I have different guitars and use them in different situations. Sound is a big factor, but feel is much more important to me. And even if you get the same tone out of two guitars, things can quickly change when you bring in dynamics. Different guitars do react quite differently to the dynamics in your playing. And that's a huge part of what actually shapes the sound.

[@MrACangusyoungDC]

I don't know. We know that Led Zeppelin II and III is Les Paul, and we can all hear that.

[@joshuadaniels8744]

Man, you’ve built your brand as an expert on extremely subtle differences in guitars and Jim Lill just handed us all enough evidence to say confidently that nothing matters as much as a simple electronics swap & making sure your pickup height is set right. I get that you have to protect yourself and your business, but you’re wrong on this. We were all wrong on this. The super squire guys were right all along

[@filmmac3]

I'll be buying squires for the rest of my life now! (as long as I can change the pickups)

[@kadematyis6578]

I imagine if you play guitar like 10-12 hours a day like many of the famous players who own very desirable vintage guitars, then yes it’s probably a bigger deal. But with the way the guitar market is now, it’s just not worth going down that rabbit hole for the average person

[@LegendaryDave2]

I can't hear a bit of difference in his neck test, they are identical. With electrics the electronics are what matters. I want t see other dude test pickups on the air guitar.

[@guitashamilele]

thanks for articulating exactly how I felt!

[@dkijc]

I'd say, because our hands and fingers are all part of the feel of the instruments we tend to think what we feel in our bodies is translated into "tone" but yes, truthfully, tone is a combination of how it feels under your fingers and the pickup (type and height)

[@andreq9327]

I had korean squier with ply body and it "sustained for days"...must have been some hand selected toneplywood

[@Robstrap]

Tonewood is something people use to justify their £5,000 gibson purchases

[@Axess-sv8nq]

@@Robstrap Absolutely. In the end, this guy works for a guitar store. He has to toe the company line because it's his job. Same with the artists who have 'signature' models. In the end, the pickup doesn't detect the wood unless it isn't wax-potted.

[@cheapskate8656]

The 1st guitar I made was a test build so I made it out of soft wood (radiata pine). To my surprise it played and sounded fine.

[@pharmerdavid1432]

At the "Tonequest Report" in the past, "Riverhorse" discussed an inexpensive Gretsch solid body guitar he has, made of plywood, but which has a better tone than any other guitar in his collection in some ways, and sustains more too, but most guitars of the same model don't sound nearly as good - I wonder what set it apart....?

[@cheapskate8656]

@@pharmerdavid1432 Well, the conclusion I draw from Lills video's is than it would be the pick up, pick up height and electronics, Assuming the strings were the same material. On top of all this we have to remember that our expectations change what we hear.

[@newgunguy4176]

It wasn't really an air guitar? Dude, he could've anchored the strings on a sidewalk and results would've been the same. Larry Lashbrook made a concrete guitar sound good.

[@diego2246]

It is not a matter of sounding “good”, it is more a “different”

[@newgunguy4176]

@@diego2246 That's just an example. The point is a guy made two tables sound like a high end tele because the electronics matter more than "tone wood".

[@diego2246]

@@newgunguy4176 you really believe it sounded the same as a high end tele? Is sounded with a similar tone a tele has, because of the pickup, its placement, its scale and nut. Something this video says which is very true is: what is the same to you? If just sounding like a guitar is “the same”, then there is no point in this discussion.

[@Axess-sv8nq]

@@diego2246 Clever marketing - and manipulation - can make gullible people believe in fairies and goblins.

[@diego2246]

@@Axess-sv8nq yes, sure… turn that gain up a bit more 💪

[@francsiscog]

The reason why the way he did his video is better is because it is easier to be consistent with those simple chords and licks that he played. When you complicate it more, it is likely to change each time you play it. He also has a video on sustain. It makes very little difference.

[@francsiscog]

And what you are saying makes sense in theory. But that's the point of the video, it's not realistic in the real world. It sounds slightly different. Remember that this was not the same pickup, but the same pickup model, it isn't exactly the same.

[@Molotov_Milkshake]

@@francsiscog You've got this ass-backwards.

[@michael1]

Yeah it's just grasping at straws. Obviously the way you play the guitar affects the tone. How you pick, what you pick with, where you pick - and it's very tricky to robustly eliminate all these factors when you want to get A and B comparing changes. No one can do identical playing. Some suggest you get some kind of robot arm or whatever (which has been done) but even that isn't going to get you identical playing very easily for any non trivial piece but you could probably get pretty close. The point here I guess is : people who are writing amp modelling software are now proving their captures are accurate by literally comparing the output from a fixed input signal - that the wav file is the same. They can show either there are no differences or very small differences. Then they compare with the commercial packages, like neural dsp et al that people are paying £1500 for and show that the open source capture is better. For free. But to do that kind of comparison with someone or something playing would be more or less impossible because the player cannot do the exact same thing twice. But the idea the guy in this video is more or less saying "Jim strummed an open E chord and that's why the air guitar, maple or mahogany would sound the same because it's only a C chord that shows the differences" is just a clown talking - but equally it would be easy to show this wasn't the case. Find the chord that you think makes a different tone with maple or mahogany and Jim could do a set up that showed that it doesn't. OP hasn't found a flaw in the experiment.

[@JeanMarceaux]

I like the attitude of "I'd like to visit Jim's shed and play the workbench guitar", completely missing Jim's point that nothing outside the pickups matters, and you can just as easily recreate the workbench guitar at home with a right pickup. I wonder: do the Honda engines add to the tone? Come on, you can't just ignore that important part! If you use Harley V-twins, do you get warmer, bassier tones? What if you get a turbo motorcycle engine? Basically 18 minutes of a man on copium.

[@spamspasm8183]

Last I checked, using yamaha motorcycle engines to weigh down your workbench makes the setup sound exactly like a yamaha pacifica guitar.

[@Shredberry]

Thanks for saving me 18min lol and LOL I've said the same thing to some ppl after they watched the video cuz they legit said the strings are attached to the table which is made out of wood.... so I genuinely questions why don't you count the Honda engines holding down the table? At their rate the air density/humidity/pressure all have impact on the way the string vibrates lol

[@tonebone69]

Huh? Why is he on copium? The sound differences on jims video were obvious. Its interesting a lot of commenters apparently didnt hear a difference. Thats cool, it doesnt really matter to me how others perceive the colour of my sound compared to me. I know what sounds best to me so thats what i choose to do. Maybe im doing it wrong, maybe you are doing it wrong, or maybe we are all hearing things wrong. Heres an example, what colour do you think b flat sounds like? It always sounds like purple to me. Like saddness or like im disappointed in myself. Is that how you hear B flat?

[@JeanMarceaux]

@@tonebone69 your synesthesia is a statistical outlier and shall not be counted

[@sampilsbury9415]

Yeah I agree I heard no difference in his necks or the original tests bodies (or lack of) and I think my ears are pretty average to good - I can reliably hear 5 cents difference in pitch and often can hear 2 cents… for instance

[@Bejaardenbus]

LOL, "I spent too much on electric guitars over the years so I need to try and refute that claim." Besides that, running it through an amp means you can twiddle with all sorts of knobs, slide pedals in between... the wood doesn't matter a single damn. At all.

[@modestoney1577]

Well, it does to a certain degree, which is not huge, but noticable if you play without effects at lower volume and need a big dynamic range for example. If you play clean and delicate the chance is you can feel how different guitars resonate and respond differently. Of course if you blast out louder distorted/overdriven stuff, that won`t matter. If you never entered the area where those subtleties live, sure you are not aware they even exist.

[@davidharvey8812]

@@modestoney1577 are you sure you are not hearing with you’re eyes ?

[@modestoney1577]

@@davidharvey8812 Pretty sure. For example I have two Fender Telecasters with identical hardware, one is made of very light ash, the other is alder and noticably heavier. They do infact resonate and react differently unplugged. When amplified the same characteristcs are also noticable. Most obvious is how they feel and react differently, also when plugged in. I`m pretty sure an audience won`t notice it, but I certainly do.

[@6stringstorulethemall967]

What's funny is you can still justify your purchase of different guitars because they look different, they feel different, and they still sound different because they have different pickups so you still didn't waste your money per se

[@brendanm6921]

@@modestoney1577 Darrell Braun did a video where he gradually cut pieces of wood off of a guitar thus making it both smaller and lighter. Guess what, it sounded exactly the same every single time. The tone, sustain and resonance were all completely unchanged. He even studied the sound waves using an audio analysing software which showed nothing different from the beginning to the end of the experiment. But yeah, you keep telling yourself that whatever high price tag you paid for your snake oil tonewoods was worth it.

[@TexanUSMC8089]

In an electric guitar...It comes down to having a guitar that has no loose parts. A loose saddle, or nut, or tuning machine, or neck, or a crack, will dampen vibration etc...A more dense wood might allow the string to vibrate longer creating more sustain. The feel of a guitar might make a person play differently. Feel is important to the player. The actual sound coming out of the amp is probably 99.9% electronics. The tone is the strings, the pots, caps, the pickup height etc...If you can play a string exactly the same on two different tele's that you swapped the strings and electronics and the rest of the hardware on, it'll sound exactly the same. It really doesn't matter what kind of wood, or paint etc...that you use. Sustain is how long a string vibrates. That's not tone though. A modern electric guitar does not have microphonic pickups. The pickups don't pickup tone, they only pickup vibrations through a magnetic field. You can have more sustain with different wood, but not different tone. It's going to be the exact opposite with an acoustic guitar though. As an electrical engineer, I worked in electronics for decades. Different guitars will feel different, and different size strings will feel different, that may make a player play differently and that will affect tone. A walnut neck will not make a string sound differently than a maple neck. If you can talk into your pickups and hear it come out your amp, then your pickups are microphonic and picking up sound. Put a microphone in front of your electric guitar and run it into your PA, then you're picking up tone.

[@adamproctor483]

Bingo. This debate (as with most debates) is inane because people aren’t using the same words the same way. Well said. Just leave it alone and buy the guitars that make you feel good - you’ll play better and that’s all that matters. Besides, if everyone starts buying cheap guitars the nicer ones will go down in price and I’ll be able to buy more of them 😂

[@ravenecho2410]

ehhh like u dont think that there's a function map from accoustic sound to string vibrations and overtones

[@phabi0]

And even so, the tone you picked up might be colored by the mic and the speaker, if you're not using full ranged flat response gear.

[@mitcharney1]

Yet the point is Jim Lill was willing to put countless hours into this experiment. Nobody else on YT (I've seen) has gone to these lengths. He's bordering genius! He at NO TIME said that the tones were "identical". His "air guitar" and your definition is a matter of semantics. Kris you are on a different page with your response. What Jim was illustrating and what you are illustrating are different subjects. A great player is going to sound great on a cheap guitar (Jack Pearson). I think that Jim would have killer tone if he gave a concert with that 'kit' guitar. He's a super musician and a fabulous player. People are not listening to subtilties in the tone they are listening for the player to knock their socks with skill and feel. The guitar is not what makes a player great, It's the player that makes the guitar great.

[@myopicautisticmetal9035]

That isn't true, Glenn Fricker and Aaron from Warmth both have tested the differences between woods.

[@vraicmusic]

@@myopicautisticmetal9035 Correct, but you do realise Warmoth sells 'tone wood'? Hardly an un-biased source.

[@thisguy2973]

Your response sounds like communist doublespeak.

[@davidfaustino4476]

Genius? He's bordering on KZbin content creator. He couldnt even hear the difference between the tele and the bench guitar.

[@probusexcogitatoris736]

As much as I dislike the "tone wood" hype, I think the other extreme of saying the tone is entirely in the hand of the player is equally absurd. It does not matter how good you are as a player, but you won't be able to play metal on an old Gretsch plugged directly into a small vintage tweed amp. Just like you really won't sound good playing dixieland with a Diezel amp on ten through a metal zone pedal. The gear is an essential part to sound good as a player. You don't necessarily need a lot of gear or expensive gear. But, you need the right gear to sound good. It's not just in the hands.

[@giancarlodileo1345]

Hi Kris, love your videos! You were talking about the physics of string oscillation/vibration, dampening effects of different parts of the guitar etc. Actually Prof. Zollner (Professor für Elektroakustik UTH Regensburg) wrote an extensive book about the "physics of the electric guitar" where he really went into detail regarding all different parts of the electric guitar and their influence on the tone. There are countless measurements of almost all aspects of the tone (attack, sustain, harmonics and so on). Eventually he concluded that the by far most important component of the tone are the musicians fingers. Tonewood etc. had almost no impact whatsoever (when the tone was generated through pickups). Of course this all changes when you play the guitar unamplified. Maybe it would be interesting for you to check out his book - an english translation is still online. And do not understand me wrong - I hear the differences of the tone in your videos when changing pickups or electrics in your guitars. However, I think the human brain often hears what it wants to hear... At the end the most important thing is to just make music with whatever you have at your hands and not to worry too much about the wood or so... (just my opinion) - and in your case Kris I really doubt that your wonderful playing would suffer by using an identical Tele with a just a different tonewood. Stay tuned!

[@iloveitall]

Did you read the study?

[@martin-1965]

"At the end the most important thing is to just make music with whatever you have at your hands..." - totally agree. Great interview with Tom Morello about how he's stuck with the same guitar and rig since he realised everything else was a distraction from being creative and making music. I guess the fact that with acoustic guitars the wood is of so obviously of massive importance - it is the only amplifier of the sound - that there is a natural propensity to carry the same thinking over to electric guitars as well. The main difference I notice between my guitars is the feel of them when playing - neck, weight, etc - and the sound - pickups, effects, amp. I'm not a tonewood believer but to each their own, and if a particular wood makes you want to play more and make music then good on ya - nobody is getting hurt here. It's only rock n roll after all - peace out folks 😎

[@activese]

100% agreed tone wood is bs sell to all, compared to the other components that matter more, like player and electronics.

[@rickhammel9541]

tone wood is the biggest myth ever bought by guitar players. Jim's test was bullet proof

[@endezeichengrimm]

His test was bullshit.

[@rickhammel9541]

@@endezeichengrimm do a better one then, lol. Until then, his was as close to perfect as you can get.

[@endezeichengrimm]

@@rickhammel9541 If you can't hear the difference, you're an idiot.

[@endezeichengrimm]

@@rickhammel9541 The "test" was bullshit.

[@realtruenorth]

Jims test proved that whatever wood those two massive tables were made out of have pretty good tonal qualities.

[@UberSnob]

There is a huge mistake in this video. You say that they sound differently because of how the wood dampens the sound. But that wouldn't change the tone. And if you look for maximum sustain and think that the tone get somehow reflected back into the strings, wood is a terrible choice in the first place.

[@joseislanio8910]

Exactly. Also, when people try to explain that the body resonates back to the strings, they have no clue what resonance really is. If anything, it'd happen only to few, if any, frequencies. If it was really audible, it wouldn't be pleasant.

[@jjk8417]

@@joseislanio8910 People probably use the word resonance too loosely. Resonance referring to specific peaks, or specific underdamped regions, in the frequency response. However, people do have a point, as there is indeed a frequency dependent interaction, and that will have (some) effect on tone. Tone being the complete (time dependent) spectral characteristics of the complete transient of the vibrating string (which can be different on various places on the neck). And yes, this is in the end a matter of tiny resonance peaks in the frequency response. If you really break it down, there is also the mechanical interactions of player and guitar (the feedback that the player gets from the wood) which can actually influence the way a player feels and operates. All of these interactions can matter when no high gain is used.

[@joseislanio8910]

@@jjk8417 but it asks for a question: can it be measured? Or can it be spotted in a blind test?

[@jjk8417]

@@joseislanio8910Measurement of open loop responses can be done by FFT's and time frequency plots. See the clip from strandberg, where different wood types lead to different spectra. Player-in-the-loop situation are probably harder to investigate in terms of reference / base line. The outcome of blind tests will vary per person and situation. High gain situations will be difficult to distinguish.

[@joseislanio8910]

@@jjk8417 Strandberg? A guitar company? Of course they won't be biased, will they?

[@tubebobwil]

Were the nuts identical when you swapped the necks? Did you re-use the strings, or use fresh sets? I think that all factors in.

[@jhumbrac]

ironically Jim has another video where he shows fresh vs used strings really don't make much of a difference at all to the tone. That was his most surprising (to me) video so far

[@wowow231]

@@jhumbrac because he didn't play the guitar... he just stroke open strings. You should hear playing because the HZ differences can't be noticed well only with the sound of open string.

[@Sobchak2]

@@jhumbrac Is the audio from a KZbin video the best way to assess those differences, though.

[@NotThatOneThisOne]

The problem with arguing that the wood can have a dampening effect is that the pickups aren't firmly attached to the wood - typically either being on springs or sponge. So the miniscule difference in vibration due to the wood is massively outweighed by the randomness added through connecting the pickups to the wood. So that either has an effect on the sound, or demonstrates that such randomness makes no difference. Also his argument want that wood does nothing, but that the impact of the wood is so small and unpredictable that spending money on expensive 'tonewoods' is pointless. You're as likely to get a great sound from basswood or palletwood then you are from 1000 year old bog oak and curly flamed butterflywinged tiger eye maple. They just look nicer.

[@jicklesjingles8134]

Wood might have a tiny little effect on the sound. But to me it's too little to worry about. In the end there are a trillion factors that influence the sound objectively that I don't waste time on this topic anymore... 🤷‍♂️

[@pharmerdavid1432]

I was watching a video at Anderton's TV yesterday, and Danish Pete said he believes ash body guitars ring more than alder body guitars, but of course he has tin ears........

[@david2660a]

This one comes from a piano player... It is fun how guitar community discusses, explores and presents different opinions on this particular matter in a simmilar manner as flat-earthers do to round-earthers and via versa. At least one could say that this eternal "fight" is providing hours of entertaining content. (?)

[@_cul8r_]

Hahaha I was watching this and thinking the same thing. This guys is a flerther of tonewoods. All the evidence and still decides to die on the hill. To each his own I guess.

[@mixodorians12]

Tonewood is about "does wood species affect the tone" in electric guitars (probably, I guess to a tiny degree, who knows) and can you create a scientific "metric" for each wood species' tonal properties. No definately not. Some mahogany is bright, some is dark some is farmed 20 thousand miles from another piece of mahogany and in different climates....same goes for maple etc. So if you cannot create a baseline, or metric (very easily done if I was possible) that each wood species sounds a certain way, then the whole concept of tone wood is garbage. Remember tonewood is about wood species, certain species of wood are supposed to affect the tone of an electric guitar, in a specific, measurable and repeatable way. It isn't about if wood does, it is about if different species of wood variety have a different and varying affect on the tone. And if this is measurable, for this to be a scientific certainty. It isn't.

[@tspicks4360]

So you're agreeing with the idea that wood does affect tone. Just not reliably so by species. That seems likely to me - I've had plywood guitars that were quite resonant, and mahogany guitars that were not ... so that can happen. Wood is an organic thing that can vary in properties even within the same tree. There might be tendencies in wood types, perhaps

[@nacienlos70]

What's obvious is that ANY guitar (as long as it is structurally sound) with your favourite pickups and electronics, pickup placement, setup will take you 95% in the direction of your dream guitar. The differences are much less than 10%.

[@nothingEvil101]

99,9% feel, now that is a different story

[@nacienlos70]

@@nothingEvil101 You are completely right. But you might go to a builder and tell him build you a guitar with your exact specs, but do it with cheap wood cuts, paint it with nitro your favourite pickups and electronics and voila. No reclaimed 300 year old wood needed.

[@nothingEvil101]

@@nacienlos70 that‘s right

[@alanaizen8220]

Feel is about setup and construction...

[@goombizdvorakkiewicz5226]

@@nacienlos70 But... 300 years old reclaimed wood just looks nice. It's something more people should just admit to themselves: they want knives made out of meteorites and guitars made out of 300 years old wood not because these materials are superior to cheaper ones in any capacity, but because they're cool.

[@artemikurski939]

Re: necks - while it is impossible to verify what the exact setup was during your experiment, I would imagine that the difference you're hearing can be, at least to some extent, attributed to the changes in guitar setup and possibly distance between the strings and the pickups. Jim Lill's "loose neck joint" part of the experiment does, in my opinion, further disprove your argument.

[@kennycube5126]

"While it is impossible to verify what the exact setup was during your experiment..." You got this bit right :)

[@artemikurski939]

@@kennycube5126 Well, yeah, therefore that experiment can't be trusted as much as Jim's.

[@alanaizen8220]

The distance of the pickup route, how the nut was filed, the height of the bridge, shape of the neck which affects how the chords are fretted... It was not mentioned. What the air guitar experiment really pointed out is the fact that the things that that drive a guitar price up has very little effect on the tone. The things that really matters are electronics and setup. As Dylan in the other channel pointed out, there could be a difference but in a mix, in order to really notice the difference, you have to focus your attention too hard that it will make you forget what really matters, enjoying the music.

[@GeekerThings]

Totally agree. Jim Lill actually conducted a scientific method route, this dude has constant variables as a basis to make what he’s saying valid. As far as I’m concerned, Kris is just spouting a bunch of regurgitated crap we’ve heard for the past 40 years.

[@phonodella5273]

The only thing with your statement is that strings never touch the wood. Even when fretting, the strings are in contact with is the fret, so stating that the rest of the guitar will dampened the string is incorrect; the nut, fret and bridge. Also, I think people insist on tone coming from wood because of acoustic guitars, in which the whole guitar body is the amplifier. Even the main purpose of the electric guitar was to avoid the resonance of the acoustic guitars. People just like to justify what the pay for with whatever they can think of, without thinking

[@davidhamilton8108]

I'd agree except for the fact it was a Tele he was using. Apparently (and I found this out recently) most of the famous Tele tone comes from the large metal bridge plate which is in direct contact with the body of the guitar. The air guitar in Jim's video has the same bridge plate in contact with a huge piece of wood with all the resonance that comes with it.

[@pluecher220]

@@davidhamilton8108 I doubt that, because the pickup is still connected with screws and those don't make tight contact with the tele bridge plate. Furthermore, following your logic on resonance: the spacer material between screw, pickup and bridge plate which to my knowledge can either be a spring or a rubber tube must have an impact on resonance transportation.

[@phonodella5273]

@@davidhamilton8108 Exactly. So this means that unless the table was the same size and same wood as the guitar, the wood does not make a difference

[@pharmerdavid1432]

The vibrations go through the fret and bridge to the entire guitar, which dampens the tone, so your conclusion is illogical.

[@Sobchak2]

And frets, nut and bridges are connected to..?

[@U2WB]

My feeling is this: perceived differences amongst two or more identical model guitars can be just as significant as the perceived differences between one with a rosewood vs maple fretboard.

[@pastorkev777]

1000%

[@stonerdave]

Ah but perception is reality- so if a difference is perceived it must exist, philosophically speaking of course

[@U2WB]

@@stonerdave perception deceives us, though. You can perceive that someone loves you in return when in fact they do not.

[@stonerdave]

@@U2WB until such time as that perception of being loved is gone how could one say they weren’t loved? To feel loved is to be loved my man- perception is reality

[@cycomiles4225]

I honestly did not hear a difference between his strats when I played the video without looking. I did hear ut ince i saw him change it. Am I tine deaf or is human perception flawed?

[@darkflash32]

For me though, the way i see it, is if you want that "sound" of a particular guitar, you have absolutely NO NEED to spend the 10k USD to achieve it. Go for the particular pickup/electronics configuration and you're 90% there. The 2x4 and the table guitar is definitely a radical take, but for people just looking for an "almost" Gibson LP means they just need the Gibson pickups, a Les Paul copy (either Epiphone or HB, or whatever is cheapest but have the same body construction) and now you have a 90% Gibson LP but on 10% the price.

[@XxCorvette1xX]

Maybe on paper sure but my old Epiphone lp doesn’t hold a candle to either of the Gibson LPs I have I wasn’t 90% there, not even close

[@mkg28]

But is it really a "Gibson LP"? Just because you put gibson pickups and parts on another guitar that's not Gibson doesn't make it 90% one.

[@AbsoluteSkycaptain]

@@mkg28 Tone-wise it sure does, and if it feels good to play the rest is irrelevant. But I've never been a fan of Gibson so the idea of finding a much cheaper guitar that feels and sounds better doesn't seem like much of a challenge from my perspective.

[@markuyehara7880]

I think you're right in that you can get 90% there but to a lot of people, that last 10% is really meaningful.

[@DanDjurdjevicplus]

I didn’t perceive any appreciable difference between the guitars. They were *practically* identical. Not 90% - *99.9%* . At least, to the listener in a recording. Or at a moderately loud gig. To *the player* - who can hear the acoustic quality of the guitar? It’s appreciably different. The lack of relevance to metal players results from the fact that they have *zero* interest in the acoustic tone of the amplified guitar: the amplified volume alone is going to drown out the acoustic effect, never mind the distortion. So, sorry Kris. Big fan. I totally get that as an accomplished player in so many genres you have an intimate relationship with your guitars - and you hear every nuance in the tones of the guitars you play. But really, the difference in the *recorded* tone - or, rather, only the *amplified* tone… was/is/always will be negligible. I’m pretty sure neither of us could tell the difference in a blind recorded/loud amplified test. And even if we did hear a difference, it would not be worth talking about. Conclusion: tone wood (and any other structural tone factor) matters *to the player* . Which is fair enough. But it doesn’t matter in a recording or an amplified live performance (excepting a *very* intimate one). I salute you sir as an artist and connoisseur of tone. But I disagree that there is a “difference” that matters to someone listening to a recording or at a loud gig. With the deepest respect, the difference then is practically zero. You could play a fence post with the right pickups (including string distance from the pickups) and amp - and no one would know. You wouldn’t enjoy it as the player. The guy sitting next to you might wince. No one else will know you’re not playing a vintage LP/Strat etc.

[@KrisBarocsi]

Thanks so much man! Actually we do not disagree at all. I don’t think the listener can tell how „special“ the guitar is on stage or on the recorded track. 👍 If we were talking about a screwdriver or a toothbrush, I wouldn’t care more about the details than absolutely necessary-> if it works, it’s good enough for me. 😅 But since I love guitars endlessly I tend to appreciate each and every last bit of them, even the ones only I and fellow guitar freaks do. I’m sure you know what I mean. A guitar is more to me than a tool to get my job done. And for that reason, if I play a guitar, that has that „extra few percent“ I literally play better. That’s probably a weakness but it’s how it is. 🤷‍♂️ And again, I’m not saying that this is the right way. It’s just my way. Cheers man!

[@DanDjurdjevicplus]

@@KrisBarocsi Good on you Kris - not just an awesome artist but a really top bloke!

[@stevescuba1978]

I would be curious if most professional musicians could pick their own guitar out of the mix in a blind test. Like take someone's sweet baby Les Paul and have someone else play it and a dozen other similarly spec'd guitars through an amp and let the owner see if they can tell. Take a step further and try to guess the model of guitar and pickup type while you're at it. I would suck at this, but I'm curious how a person who has played much longer than I would fare.

[@Saurondor]

Blind tests are the most useless and potentially undermining tests to disprove tonewood matters. I was just watching some videos from Ola Englund in which he blind tests this own amps and he fails miserably at telling which is which. Can we then conclude all amps sound the same and amps don't matter? Certainly not. Because not being able to tell the difference in a blind test only means that. The inability to pick one from the other. Not that there's no difference.

[@HamidKarzai]

@@Saurondor you can design a blind test that only checks if you are able to see a difference, not necessarily pick out which is which. For example: record the same thing on both guitars, and splice the recordings together, ask the listener to find when the splices occur. Blind tests are absolutely standard practice in science, the human brain is extremely liable to trick observers, you expect something to happen and your mind manifests it just because of your expectation, sometimes even physically like with the placebo effect in medicine. It is IMPOSSIBLE to objectively prove something sounds different without blind testing

[@carlosalves4444]

Yeah we'll have a look at the concrete stratocaster mate. That's right the concrete Strat, guess what it sounds like a Strat, who wood have thought. It's rock solid sounding Strat, probably designed for hard rock ha.

[@MrClassicmetal]

There's also the cardboard Strat.

[@puukijarparsupasin9382]

All solid materials have resonance frequency cardboard strat that fender did used epoxy/resin to harden it. So it is actually epoxy guitar Epoxy , concrete or any solid materials other than wood. they do vibrate

[@anonymousstout4759]

@@puukijarparsupasin9382 they do vibrate, but can the pick-ups pick those wood vibration?

[@puukijarparsupasin9382]

@@anonymousstout4759 of cause pickup can pick those vibration but not directly via strings I know pickup will generate signal by vibrating matals Strings vibrate guitar and vibration travel back to strings then pickups pick that SUM vibration Proof it your self if u pick a string without touching other strings at all u'll hear other string vibrate as well maybe a little (more noticeable with distortion) but no doubt vibration do travel from guitar to strings Or light tap the guitar's body rapidly guitar vibrate strings as well

[@markuyehara7880]

The problem is, Strats sound different from one another so "sounds like a Strat" is a huge range of stuff. It's almost meaningless.

[@TheAxe4Ever]

It’s so interesting. You said something in this video that reminded me of this really cool old guy I knew back in the mid 80’s that taught me how to setup my own guitars and do re-fretting, pickup swaps, jack and pot swaps, soldering and other important maintenance. He was a true luthier. He built handmade acoustic guitars and even violins. Anyway, he told me not to ask the wrong questions like “what guitar parts and woods GIVES me the most sustain?” Instead, to ask “which guitar, parts, woods etc, takes sustain away slower”. He said no guitar gives sustain. It only takes it away at different rates. That made me think a lot about the subject over the years. As always, awesome video, man!

[@KrisBarocsi]

Yeas it’s interesting how we phrase these things. Give or take vibration / sustain. 😅 It’s all about the flow and loss of energy. Thanks so much man!!

[@stanislavmigra]

Ive heard the same thing (just different words) from other luthier too.

[@fedest]

Heard a similar thing from Paul Reed Smith in some video of his...

[@void_snw]

Jim since did another video about sustain, quite interesting again.

[@nothingEvil101]

@@void_snw people don‘t want the truth, they will come up with all kinds of ridiculous bs to defend their believe…

[@andreq9327]

If he cant hold the 2x4 and thus press the strings the same way, its kinda hard to sound 100% the same...still sounds close enough for a guitar player...for a scientist or someone interested in selling tonewood guitars it could sound different i guess

[@Lantertronics]

I noticed that too -- similar with the "fencepost telecaster" that Dylan of DylanTalksTone built in his backyard; its positioned so awkwardly that you have to play it differently. I think what we're zeroing in on is that if the difference between say Tonewood A and Tonewood B is smaller than the *inherent difference between to takes of the same passage made by the same guitarist because the guitarist is human*, it's not worth fussing over.

[@anonymousstout4759]

Dude literally play open strings lol. I guess you didn't even watch Jim's video

[@Lantertronics]

@@anonymousstout4759 And he strums those open strings with a very awkward arm position.

[@anonymousstout4759]

@@Lantertronics if tone wood is so important replicating the same sound will be next to impossible, let alone arm position while strumming at the same place. You need to drop your ego man, there's many references that tone wood is snake oil. Did you made bad purchase based on tone wood? lol. Whatever man anything that make you sleep at night

[@Lantertronics]

@@anonymousstout4759 I think you're getting me confused with someone else, or misunderstanding my point? I'm very much of the belief that the material a solidbody electric guitar is constructed with is largely irrelevant to its sound when plugged in. That sound is almost entirely determined by the pickups.

[@BB-pi2wd]

This video is very very spot on accurate in it's explanations. There are a million different videos on youtube trying to explain this topic, but if one wanted to have a basic understanding of how guitar construction and "tone" actually works, this video is probably the one you want to pay attention to. Nice job.

[@urmagurt6286]

Is this guy for real? Guess when you've lied to yourself for years you start convincing yourself that you hear differences. If its so obvious.. get this guy in a room with someone and have him do a blind test. 100% he will not be able to tell them apart.

[@KrisBarocsi]

Don't believe Jim's video and don't believe my video or opinion. Do some comparisons for yourself and only believe what you personally experience.

[@sagnier]

@@KrisBarocsi that’s specious reasoning. Like, Jim Lill CAN’T be right because everyone should, according to you, ‘only believe what you personally experience’. Anecdotal fallacy…

[@RagggedTrouseredPhilanthropist]

@KrisBarocsi "only believe what you personally experience"... Wow, that is a spectacularly unscientific way to look at the world. Taking that approach is why some people believe the earth is flat.

[@prism223]

I mean the example he played in this very video shows an obvious tonal difference. If you want to get picky, you have to analyze the signal spectrum and use some machine to pluck the strings to minimize variation of input. It doesn't matter if he or anyone else can't hear a difference, as there can still be one and someone else might hear it clearly and care about it.

[@naattxxnaattxx7055]

It seems people took your comment the wrong way​@@KrisBarocsi

[@sajisguitar]

My opinion: Tonewood and the resonance that occurs while playing does matter for the player ALONE. For everyone else all it matters is the magnets and the copper wire wound around it at either end of the signal chain. Love your videos Kris, Thank You!!!!

[@victorrene3852]

Very true.

[@zacharcher1876]

I definitely agree with you on this! A resonant guitar feels much better to play.

[@Sadowsky46]

Eggzactly! 🍳

[@Lantertronics]

Indeed -- an instrument isn't just the physical means of producing sound; it's also a user interface.

[@ihcterra4625]

Unless your pickups are microphonic.

[@Lyuze]

There was another video that reacted to the same one, he talked about the difference between a real tangible difference in tone vs a micro-difference in tone (I can't remember his verbiage). I think this video starts to get into differences in tone that might not actually matter all that much. Some of these comparisons that you say are different are only different when in a direct a/b. Listen to them even 20 seconds apart and you couldn't differentiate those tones, vs say listening to a gretsch and an SG 20 seconds apart you almost certainly could.

[@marksr12]

Great video Kris and I completely understand and support your perspective. I think Jim was just demonstrating how close the guitars sound with the same electronics. Now I want to see someone string up a giant old fallen tree...what sustain! You play great and that Telecatster's tone, is damn nice! Now I have to search your videos to see your electronics!

[@semikolon6440]

Love your good natured and greatly informed comments, thx!

[@KrisBarocsi]

So nice of you, thanks man!

[@bbbloechl5243]

"Blessed is the man who, having nothing to say, abstains from giving wordy evidence of the fact." - George Eliot

[@kmichaelp4508]

I’ve seen two videos on this so far and find them interesting. Me personally, I think it’s what ya hear in ‘your’ ears and are happy with that. It’s the minor things that you are looking for in sound. How a guitar reacts to your playing. The bystander will rarely hear what you’re feeling or hearing. It’s a personal thing more over than a pronounced thing.

[@dutchmcfadyen5867]

So glad I found this video 👍 You are a great player and obviously really knowledgeable about guitars 🎸 I'm digging it and subscribed to the channel! Look forward to seeing more from you!

[@KrisBarocsi]

Thanks so much man! I really appreciate that. Enjoy the videos!

[@capitan_sevilla]

Hi Kris!. And what happens with the noises when you have single coil pickups on a hollow guitar?, or all that about the conductive paint to avoid them?. Shouldn't there be more noises with the air guitar?. Hope you understand what I´m trying to say (english is not my native language). Regards!

[@KrisBarocsi]

The body wood doesn't affect single-coil hum at all. It doesn't help with it, nor does it make any worse. I don't have any shielding on my tele or on my P90 loaded Gibson LP Junior and they are both perfectly fine. I barely have any hum. So it's not a surprise that the air guitar also didn't hum too bad. You only have bad hum, if the room you're playing in has some serious issues or if you go close to a computer. Cheers!

[@capitan_sevilla]

@@KrisBarocsiTank you Kris!. And what about the feedback when you are close to the amp?. That would be affected?

[@truthhertz8198]

"Jim said" this and "Jim said" that and "I don't agree with what he said". Jim never said anything supporting nor denying anything . He simply did the experiment and let the audience come to their own conclusion. By you stating "He said" you make it sound as if he wanted to disprove the whole Tonewood and Pickup debate when thruth is he is just curious what the results would be. Because it PROVES something that contradicts your beliefs, you count it as an argument. The only one arguing is you with yourself. Appearantly you are in denial and unable to cope with the results. If I were Jim I'd be telling you not to be putting words in his mouth. I had never seen your channel before his video and I can tell you right now I will not be subscribing nor will I ever in the future. I have no respect for someone who claims someone said something that was never said.

[@newgunguy4176]

It proves that tone is in the electronics instead of the wood.

[@panameadeplm]

it's crazy to me that this has to be said at all

[@newgunguy4176]

@@panameadeplm Yup.

[@MrBossei]

Super interesting. All your conclusions seem valid. Thank you 🤩👍

[@MegaTubescreamer]

the eye of the beholder !! beauty is in the ear of the beholder Kris and we all can vary in how we register tonality ,our ears function inconsistently from one person to another, factor this variable in and it makes for infinite levels of appreciation of `what is a great tone` fascinating video thanks 👍👍

[@SimenNeverdal]

YES! It is not an air guitar! Glad someone said it

[@amimandlReal]

I think we can all agree on: It's not Guitar playing, it's Guitar feeling! Cool Video Kris!

[@benjaminlin6524]

What Jim's video showed me is that a majority of an electric guitar's tone is contained in the scale length, pickups and pickup positions, more than the wood. The guitars in the video don't sound identical, but they are close.

[@RobertHollander]

It's amazing that you can listen to his audio with a sample rate of 44100 Hz and 32 bits per sample and honestly say you can tell a clear difference from one to the other. Do you really think you could do it with a blind sound test? I've been a guitarist for 58 years and I couldn't tell the difference between the three. You clearly have a much better ear than I do.

[@PeterWasted]

What I suspect we can all agree on, is that the best guitar is the one we enjoy playing most and that gives us the sound and performance we want. Now if one guitarist gets that without considering the materials and another fixates on grain direction, density and timber species, so be it. None of us should loose sleep if others don't agree with our opinions here. For myself, I'm sure I hear sound differences related to guitars that come from somewhere other than just the pickups but I wouldn't go as far as saying which part or wood species has any specific effect. If we view other people's suggestions as just possibilities for us to explore, we can all build our experience and maybe one day find out what works for us.

[@patfix]

Your first sentence really is all that matters. These discussions can be interesting but in the end don’t matter at all. Just play the instrument that you think plays and sounds the best for you.

[@rootube808]

Just for laughs. In physics, the observer effect is the disturbance of an observed system by the act of observation. This is often the result of instruments that, by necessity, alter the state of what they measure in some manner.

[@user-lv7ph7hs7l]

That's not what it really is. It's about electrons and such and you can't observe an electron without interacting with it (it smashes into a detector). Observing implies being at a distance and just looking but in particle physics you observe by touching stuff. That's all it is. Not some mystical thing.

[@GuvnaOnSpotify]

Great video Kris!

[@pardop5628]

so well explained Kris, great video!!

[@KrisBarocsi]

🙏

[@matthewf1979]

I think it’s a sum of all parts. I think wood stability, playability, electronics/pickups and looks should outweigh specific species of wood. Acoustic instruments are an entirely different thing.

[@Agent117Smith]

Having watched this video, the one he’s reviewing and having done some carpentry and starting out doing some luthier work I am of the view that 99% of the tone is in the electronics and it’s positioning relative to the strings, and 99% of the playability of the instrument is in the craftsmanship and setup. What you do want in your timber is sufficient strength and dimensional stability through moisture/temperature changes.

[@user-lv7ph7hs7l]

And weight. I think the main consideration in wood should be the amount of back pain you're going for.

[@nickg2431]

Nice video Kris,a bit like you my experience told me that for basic sounds in a mix particularly with heavy sounds the differences are smaller. However as you correctly point out it’s the dynamic range,any “ deadness” and the change in sound ( bass mid treble) What also absolutely stuns me is the amount of “ heavy” players who use a fuller more distorted sound worrying about subtle things such as tone wood and subtlety and dynamic range.

[@PapaKiloProductions]

When I was at college in 2001, I was on a guitar building course. The tonewood argument got raised many times, so we decided to test the theory. We cut neck pockets into 5 different pieces of wood which were identical in dimension. The same pickup, hardware and strings etc were used on all 5 tests. The neck was the same one for each. We even built a jig to strum the strings exactly the same each time. The signal was sent through some spectrum analyser software and recorded. The comparative data showed almost undetectable differences in the signal between each wood (and could just have been down to margin of error). From that day, I never believed the tonewood myth. Some people will, even after hearing of that experiment, still swear that they can hear the difference. There is no telling some people. They hear what they want to hear, or will not admit that have been wrong for so many years. (Edit: spelling)

[@jamiebriggs8277]

The only reasonable response to anyone's claim that "tonewood" is a key component to a guitar is: "prove it". Everyone is constantly ratting off vague nonsense despite a complete lack of evidence. Every time someone shows one of these statements to be false, they just move the goal posts or make their claims even more vague. In your own video that you showed the clips of, you can clearly see that you're strumming those les pauls in different places - one a little closer to the bridge than the other, which will make far more difference in the sound than which type of wood the guitar is made of. Jim's video went FAR beyond what anyone claiming the importance of "tonewood" has in terms of putting those claims to the test, and while there are plenty of small points to nitpick, he pretty solidly knocked down all of the major claims that manufacturers and gear snobs make without evidence every day. Plain and simple.

[@markuyehara7880]

Have you played a Teuffel Birdfish?

[@ianholmes2420]

Jim’s video experiment proves conclusively that when it comes to electric guitars “tone wood” is all marketing. Wood species and quality absolutely makes an important difference in acoustic guitars but not in electric guitars. All the tone with electric guitars is created from the pickups, strings, pick or fingers and the musician playing the instrument. I have electric played guitars made of old skateboard decks and depending on the pickups, strings and scale length they can sound like a Tele, a Strat or a Les Paul. It just depends on how you create the axe. Tone wood is complete and total bullshit when it comes to electric guitars. You can make a guitar out of solid lucite, plexiglass or glass and make it sound like any guitar made of any wood. It’s a fact, and Jim just illustrated that. If you have any other opinion, you’re just fooling yourself. If you take two identical Tele’s for example and one has a rosewood finger board and the other has a maple fingerboard you will not hear any difference. It’s simply visual aesthetics, and marketing to justify a specific price point.

[@ben-fischer-2023]

I want to agree, but what do we do when, due to using eq metering, we observe differences in the profile of the waveform between 2 guitars with different woods and even finishes. Are we better off concluding that such differences are purely the result of pickup magnet height?

[@Guitar88]

Absolutely true!

[@roundrunner]

Hey Kris, I´m always impressed by your Les Paul's neck pickup tone - bright, clear and with a nice note separation and dynamics. My own Les Paul (R0 with wax potted custom buckers) seems to lag that, it is a pretty dark sounding guitar overall. Which brings up the big question: Is it the tone wood of the guitar or the pickups? Right now I´m fighting with myself over the decision whether to exchange the pickups or not. What would you recommend? Thanks in advance!

[@alecmullaney7957]

Pickups affect tone Wood does not.

[@misticformula1485]

We guitar players sure love to nerd out about all these little details, lol. Awesome video!

[@prtauvers]

How does ‘damping’ the string vibration change the ‘tone’? It would only affect the sustain…unless you somehow selectively dampen various harmonics?

[@TheGunmac10]

Yes that's exactly how it works it affects different frequencies at a different rate

[@grandarchon6969]

@@TheGunmac10 Show that on an EQ curve in a video please.

[@stevescuba1978]

Think of the different sounds when you clink aluminum (dull, almost plasticky) or steel (crisp, plingy). The density changes how vibrations travel through the material. Since both points of contact of guitar strings are mounted on the guitar, the vibrations will travel through the wood, allowing the different densities to affect them. Damping one more than another would necessarily affect tone acoustically. Through amplification, likely only sustain is effected greatly, since the pickups do not really detect the vibration of the wood directly. Interestingly, the granular structures of the atoms in a material could affect vibrations as well. A metal guitar would sound way different than a glass guitar, and a titanium guitar would sound different than an aluminum one (acoustically)

[@grandarchon6969]

@@stevescuba1978 Prove those densities make a difference in the signal chain. I didn't say that they weren't different, or wouldn't even vibrate different. Prove which frequencies they change. I attest they don't. People use all sorts of lose, lame language like "spongey", "dull", "bright", "tight" to describe differences in wood, but they never explain what frequencies they actually affect. Even if they could change the signal, you still have all the way to go to demonstrate that you couldn't just "fix" it with a simple EQ pedal. Spending an extra several hundred to thousands of dollars for pretty wood is just that. Cosmetic only.

[@stevescuba1978]

@@grandarchon6969 to be clear, I think that wood choice has little to no effect on amplified tone, only acoustic tone. That may carry over slightly into the mix, but not worth worrying about. However, to say that the different densities won't affect the vibrations is to deny everything we know about waves. There's a reason that sound travels faster through water than air, and some metals conduct electricity better than others. Density and the type of matrix the molecule form affect the sine wave's ability to flow, and that really isn't disputed any longer. It has been proven forever. Back to the main point. No, I don't think that these differences make a significant change to the tone of an electric guitar, since the signal chain starts at the nut, and (before the cable and amp) ends at the bridge ground for your pickup. I would not spend much money to chase wood types for an electric guitar, other than cosmetic appeal.

[@chitarrafaidate]

Love your video. We often mistaken SOUND with RESPONSE of a guitar. (And this is my opinion) like you said. Sound comes from pickups. Responses comes truly from wood. Still the differences i hear slight differences in a LP, but honestly? They both sound great, and if you think of that in the context of a mix wouldn't mind play any of the 2. Whatever is comfortable. It's ok to disagree sometimes, as long you make sweet music.

[@jfo3000]

Totally agree. But response is critical. Maybe more important than sound as EQ tweaks can change sound. But attack and non-feedback sustain are critical to some players.

[@theraxis]

I'm convinced that you could have the same sample playing over 12 different pictures of wood/neck combos in a YT video, and "tonewood people" would still say they heard a difference when their favorite wood showed up. It's like wine tasters thinking the same bottle of wine tastes different because they were rating three different samples of the same wine labeled "budget," "mid-range," and "high-end."

[@lazvt8469]

so...just follow the science? lol great pair of vids...and your analysis!! By the way....where can I get a weight relieved workbench guitar?

[@bakters]

The workbench had the best tone, because the attachment points were the stiffest. That means that the strings transmitted very little energy to them. There was a guy who compared his best LP with a steel support beam in his cellar. The "beam guitar" sounded significantly better. Of course, it's hard to play the cellar, especially on live stage, so it's not very practical. However, it proved the point.

[@Cobra-ky9bt]

A new definition of "House band".

[@georgelucasribeiro3696]

I'd love to see someone do a blind test, just to see if it's really possible to someone spot that 10%

[@cheapskate8656]

To do a proper scientific test it needs to be double blinded and The guitar needs to be picked by a machine. I have been thinking about doing it for a while.

[@kennycube5126]

@@cheapskate8656 You need to think a little bit more. Maybe get some help too. Why not triple blind? Have you a reason for double over triple? Also, what is this guitar picking machine you speak of? If you've got the skills you should go for it.

[@cheapskate8656]

@@kennycube5126 I dont think triple blinding would be necessary as I think only 2 people or process would be involved (unless I'm missing something). So, The tester should be blind and so should the person comparing the data. The machine could be as simple as a pendulum with a pick on it. A release mechanism drops it from a predetermined height and angle.

[@Robstrap]

More like 2%

[@FinalResonanceTV]

You mean you can’t hear the difference between his tone on those two Les Paul’s with the same pickups? kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZorCpayLn9CenqMsi=Rp-nANoYUrJzLO0B

[@resington]

Very good points man!

[@KrisBarocsi]

Thank you!

[@jmacc9876]

A new set of strings vs an old set of strings have even more influence than the wood on a solidbody electric guitar to my ears.

[@sim82]

My take on this: the physical parts of the guitar (construction, wood, weight and resonance frequency) dominate the dynamic part of the sound, i.e. initial transient and sustain. The electronics (pickups, tone circuit) dominate the 'steady-state' frequency response. Part of this 'controversy' is probably that it is much easier to demonstrate and capture the huge differences electronics make, while capturing the dynamic response is much harder (and is easily dismissed as subjective).

[@semikolon6440]

Good one 👍🏻

[@KrisBarocsi]

That makes so much sense sim82! 👏

[@theblacksquirrel.]

There are so many variables and of course subjectivity! I mean for a start, before we get onto the actual topic, how are people listening to these things, YT compresses sound, so even with high end headphones and at the highest bit rate, it's not the same as being there or actually playing the instrument. Absolutely tone is in the fingers, two people with their own styles, same amp easily prove this. Two people trying to copy the same style on the same amp is not as easy. Now on the wood bit, in my experience and opinion the sound of a guitar is the sum of it's parts and by that I mean, for lack of a better term, each bit of wood has it's own harmonic/ resonant frequency (whatever) and when combined neck/ fretboard/ body etc they're either a bit complimentary, a lot complimentary or not complimentary which - that guitar sounds great, it sings and sustains for days or nah that guitar has no life etc. With Electric guitar and amps you can EQ and use effects to change the sound, but it can't change the feel under the fingers etc.

[@GuitarHugo]

Well put!

[@HurtboxTV]

except that's completely wrong considering we have guitars made of plastic and composite material that will sound the exact same. cut the bullshit, the wood does nothing to the sound of a guitar.

[@djvycious]

I always appreciate a response video but this really doesn't offer any counterpoint other than "nah man". Types of wood matter when they function in resonating sound such as in a hollow body acoustic. In an electric they serve a structural purpose only. The reason we use hardwood is because it is lightweight, very strong, easy to manipulate and comparatively inexpensive. Beyond videos like Jim's, we need only look at the marketing to debunk this myth. The most sought after tone woods are always the most expensive ones. Why? Nature doesn't work that way. The best sounding wood could just as easily be from the most abundant trees. Instead the mantra driven by snake oil marketing is that somehow, by some divine influence, the rarest trees also happen to sound the best as a solid body guitar. The crux of your argument is the damping effect of the wood, effectively how thew wood is absorbing some of the energy imparted by the strings into the fixed posts. Okay, but If it had such a dramatic effect in shaping tone, we could simply change the tone by having longer or shorter bridge posts as more or less surface area will increase the amount of dampening. What about factors external to the guitar? One could play with their shirt off and press the guitar against their body to increase the damping effect, or wear a metal breastplate to resist the transfer of vibrations. What about the guitar's hardware. Surely then there must be 'tone frets' and 'tone metals' that impart vibrations more easily. Why aren't the frets and bridges made from tone wood also if they were so crucial to the guitar's overall tone? Why do we paint a guitar with paint and lacquer which would certainly impact the tone? Why aren't solid body guitars drilled with holes and stuffed with rockwool to help dampen the sound? The answer is if they mattered, it would be a common element in the guitar making process. Lastly, at the end you mention Glenn and Ola for playing heavily distorted amps and all the filtering and compression. All amps are loaded with capacitors that shape the sound, clean or distorted. Then the current is sent to a speaker in a resonating box that creates the desired sound. A box that is made of plywood or MDF. There are so many variables in the plucking of a string to the sound coming from a speaker that the miniscule difference in wood density of a structural component is all but negligible.

[@timeshock1255]

Perfecty explained again, my friend. It's all not new but you know how people are. Have a great weekend!

[@zemlidrakona2915]

Honestly I think Jim Lill's test was pretty good. I'm not going to claim his test was perfect, but he did the most scientific test I've seen yet. To prove him wrong I would like the see an equally scientific test that can demonstrate differences based on the variables.

[@joe99173122]

Fair points Kris. I do believe Jim's video however really did prove that the tonewood affects much less of that "last 10%" of the overall tone than we all initially thought.

[@meinukey]

Love it how videos like Jim Lill's instantly trigger the desperate reactions of every single piece of the giant puzzle of marketing. But that's fine, you (me, all of us) are necessary in the end.

[@aminorerror]

Great video man, well said and explained.

[@KrisBarocsi]

Thanks a lot man!

[@iromanovsky]

How can you explain difference in sound between solid and semi hollow guitars, having everything else, including pickups, the same (LP vs 335 for instance).

[@KrisBarocsi]

Exactly.

[@ShannonFerguson]

Sort of reminds me of the story I heard about Billy Corgan talking about how the colour of the paint affects the tone. Okay. Whatever, dude. What about the intonation on a telecaster? It isn't perfect, but people make great songs playing them. If someone is chasing tone with the wood or colour of their guitar, save your time and practice more.

[@martindengler9356]

Jim really did a good and amazing Job. But I have to agree with you here. Tonewood doesn't make as much of a difference in sound as the whole debate makes it sound like. It really comes down to minor details and feel that doesn't come through in a mix, but it makes you want that specific guitar. I'm also in on that Workbench guitar idea, with the tables doing the vibration. Stay safe Kris 😁

[@benink5690]

Mix? So guitars are only meant for distorted tones with a loud band? No! Just no! So many people play clean and can hear the difference easily where as some of these youtubers can't. They just don't have a great ear is all. It's like trying to get a hardened classical player to improv

[@niclastname]

@@benink5690 There are recorded/band mixes that aren't loud bands with distorted tones lol. A mix just means that there is more than one instrument playing together. An all-acoustic folk band is still a mix. It's a mix of sounds and instruments. It has nothing to do with volume or amount of gain on a guitar tone. A jazz trio (drums, bass, piano) is a mix.

[@benink5690]

@@niclastname I'm very aware of that. However my point is that the only time tonewood might not matter is with heavier tones or with many parts that clouds a mix, duh...

[@nothingEvil101]

@@benink5690 and I am sure you always checked that the two guitars you compared and where you clearly hear the differences between had the same pickup in them in the exact same position, with precisely the same distance between pickup and string and the same electronics as well. I am in fact VERY sure you did…

[@benink5690]

@@nothingEvil101 Actually yes. A les paul and an es 335. Sounded different... because tone wood matter to those with an ear for music... I obsessively set up my guitars... vefore practice... daily... es 335 sounds warmer and it's undeniable. Unless you have hearing problems like some of these people

[@jamesthepanther]

Did you measure pickup height each time you swapped necks?

[@KrisBarocsi]

Of course. The comparison would be absolutely pointless otherwise. Same for the action.

[@audiophileman7047]

Thank you for making this video and actually using technical information to explain why different wood in guitars makes a difference on sound quality. 👏👏👏I'm in the tonewood camp as well. You explained it perfectly. I had the same impression about the "air guitar"; it is definitely a work bench guitar. The other concern that I have about his comparisons was that he didn't allow you to hear the guitar sounds for very long. He also did not use audio spectral analysis to show the sound waves produced by each guitar. That's how you do a scientific comparison. Ever notice how great guitarists will play an electric guitar without plugging it in to an amp to hear the natural sound of the guitar and determine its quality without amplification? That's more evidence to support tonewood theory. 👍👍👍

[@mrcoatsworth429]

What you're saying about the physics of the guitar is true, of course. It's impossible that there is absolutely no effect of the wood on the way that the strings vibrate. With the amount of variables that are in this system (pickup type and height, string height, strings, nut, bridge, electronics, and tolerances of the parts etc.) it is extremely difficult to determine what kind of effect one single part has. But by completely removing the body, Jim proved in a very scientific way (the most scientific I have seen so far) that the wood has an extremely small effect on the tone of an electric guitar. You can't argue with that. Additionally, the strings aren't even in direct contact with wood. They have a far bigger interaction with the nut and bridge. So it's reasonable to assume that those parts are be far more important to how the strings vibrate. Would be interesting to do some tests about that.

[@Saurondor]

Keep in mind that Jim didn't completely remove the body he changed it for the whole tables/floor system linking them. There's no "air guitar" anymore than there are "air bridges". Bridges interact with whatever they're set on. A guitar is very much like a suspension bridge. The strings pull against the neck and the neck pulls back. What the neck is made out of is a important for a guitar as what the structure is made out of on a bridge. The same physics applies to both.

[@mrcoatsworth429]

@@Saurondor Yeah, but that's splitting hairs now. He could have removed the effect of the guitar "body" even more by decoupling the work bench form the ground via acoustic absorbers, which would be an exorbitantly elaborate design. But let's be realistic. I'll rephrase my statement from above: By removing the guitar body and neck form the immediate vicinity of the strings, and replacing them with a workbench and the ground of a room acting as the body, he has proved in a very scientific way that the tonal changes are practically negligible. If the difference between a certain kind of guitar body and a workbench and floor are so small, it follows that the difference between two different kinds of guitar body woods is even smaller.

[@Saurondor]

@@mrcoatsworth429 that''s absolutely incorrect. First of all he has no theory of why this happened nor any "graphed" values to show real and unbiased evidence. Keep in mind that Jim is the same person who in a later video made some sustain tests and said there were "only a few dB" in difference. Disregarding the fact that "a few dB" is what separates very distinct Celestion speakers. On the other hand there are very clear videos with numeric data that shows that body wood matters. This numeric data is unbiased by youtube compressions, listener's bias and the listener's headphones or listening equipment. There's also clear theoretical reasons why electric guitar wood matters. There are also certain phenomenon that occur on electric guitars that can't be explained by "pickups and electronics". For example picking a string, having it ring, then die down only to pickup it's ringing a few moments later. This speaks of complex resonating effects within the solid body and moving stationary waves. How this happens depends on the wood's properties and not the pickups.

[@mrcoatsworth429]

@@Saurondor feel free to share any of these tests you mentioned. The more scientific, the better. I'm very open to having my mind changed by actual evidence. Most of the tests I have seen were deemed "scientific" just by virtue of using spectrum analyzers and the like, not because they were using a particularly good, consistent method. Jim was by far the most thorough in documenting his process to be repeatable by others. So far, what has come out of all tests is that there are so many variables that have a much greater potential effect than the wood type. For example tolerances in the electronics, pickup height etc. The question isn't whether or not wood matters. It's *how much* it matters. The evidence, so far, says "not much at all".

[@Saurondor]

@@mrcoatsworth429 sure here's a video ID you can see on youtube. Just put it in the search box to bring the video up as I can't paste links in the posts. DDTdUC2guuc You'll see the frequency response of a set of different bodies as well as just then neck without the body. In the original video here: Hbyg0d1njk0 Tin Sway makes a set of interchangeable bodies and tests them with the exact same neck, pickups, bridge and nut (oh and tuners).

[@brian770]

the benches on the "air" guitar were actually connected with boards, look at the far left and right in his video. so they actually were transmitting vibrations.

[@davidletterboyz]

Jim did not measure the sustain. I suspect the air guitar has the longest sustain because of the mass and density of material it’s mounted.

[@AlanW]

I'm glad we aren't the only people who realize it's a wood guitar, I'd wager the pine holding the two ends apart have a big effect on the sound as they are don't the lion's share of the work keeping the strings at tension.

[@alfonsoalvarez8357]

You are a fool

[@solkvist8668]

Yeah the pickup can’t pick that up. It can only capture the strings movement, and even if it could pick up on wood (it can’t) it certainly couldn’t from several feet away. There is a reason metal guitars, cardboard guitars, carbon fiber guitars, and plastic or epoxy guitars exist, and it’s because they still sound like guitars, and pretty good if set up correctly. If your argument is the mic that’s pointed directly at the amp can somehow catch the frequencies of a random plank several feet away that plank has to be the most resonant piece of wood we’ve ever seen on the planet.

[@davidletterboyz]

@@solkvist8668 The pickup does not directly pick up the wood vibration. It's the after effect of the resonance of wood/material and strings that make the strings ring longer.

[@Rikucaster18]

I know you posted this video a year ago I but I just wanted to say good job. Love you covered everything and we’re all to have a good time!

[@KrisBarocsi]

Thanks a lot Matt. 🙏

[@torsten1091]

JUST GREAT - I Love it, Jim

[@Dram1984]

The player can feel and hear very subtle differences that are completely lost on and irrelevant to the listener. Heck, most non-guitarists can't even differentiate the sound of a Les Paul from a Strat.

[@lfaf9509]

Well, this can get complicated, especially if I go into the actual science in any kind of depth. Put as simply as possible, the differences in the frequency's that woods vibrate, are so very small that the human ear couldn't detect the difference at all. So when it comes to a dampening effect, the amount lets say Maple would dampen the vibrations vs. the amount Basswood would dampen the vibrations, would not be big enough for the human ear to hear. At best, we are talking less than a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of your over all tone could be affected by what Kris believes plays a big roll in your tone, and that is if it worked that way at all. In a Tesla coil you have two coils of metal, and when you put a charge through one coil, a charge is induced in the second coil even thought the coils do not touch one another. It's the magnetic fields that causes the charge in the second coil to be induced in a Tesla coil. Now when you play a string on your guitar, the sound the strings make can cause other strings to vibrate, we call this sympathetic ringing. Even though its different forces from the Tesla coil, where one is magnetic and the other is sound waves, the effect is actually close to being the same. So you play your string, and other strings can (depending on the frequency of the string played) start to ring. Now, the same thing goes for the wood though, the wood your guitar is made out of will vibrate in response. But just like in a Tesla coil, the material the second coil is made out of, has no affect on the first coil. So the wood does not affect how your strings vibrate, but the frequency of the strings vibrations will affect how your wood vibrates. You are not passing vibrations directly from the strings and into the wood, but rather inducing the vibrations you feel in the woods. Get it? Now in the video Kris is reacting to, it had a fella trying to figure out where the tone actually comes from. That video showed very conclusively that the tone comes from mostly the player and amp and the pickup and the pickups placement along with the pots and such. That video also disproved the idea of tonewood, even if we use the dampening explanation Kris used in this video, the video being reacted to disproves it. I understand there are two possibilities here, one is that Kris believes personally in the concept of tonewood, and two being he doesn't but wants to use the concept to sell guitars. For the sake of not offending folks, I lean to the idea that he actually believes that wood plays some important roll in the tone, as I am forever the optimist and want to see the good in people. Now about the two by four guitar, the pick attack was different for sure, and you can kind of hear it, but any player who has played should be able to tell the difference between pick attacks after they have played beyond a certain point, and that was obvious. The tone its self though, didn't change beyond pick attack, though if you are looking for something I guess that is where you would focus. The two by four guitar sat differently on his lap, so it would have been insanely hard to get the same angle of pick attack as he had on his Teles.. Knowing the difference between induction and a single closed system when it comes to guitars, has always been a struggle for folks. The concept of tonewoods has been around for a very long time, this is mostly due to two driving factors, first it sells of course, and two the general ignorance of folks when it comes to the actual Science involved. So I don't believe in the whole tone wood thing.. because Science .. Funny how I can say the same thing Kris said in this video, but Ill do it without the suppressed laughter. Sorry if this seemed snarky, my goal is only to put out there what I think on this, and this was the very very very short of what I think about this response video and what Kris said. I hope all is well, good day and good luck :)

[@TheMemagNeman]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZorCpayLn9CenqM

[@solkvist8668]

@@TheMemagNeman while I am both a fan of strandberg and own one of their guitars (sälen jazz with the typical tonewoods), I’d be curious to see how they decided to record it, how many takes of each type of wood they did, etc. Tone wood plays zero role in the sound of the guitar. Electromagnetic Pickups cannot pickup that resonant vibration. That is the science behind this regardless of opinion. What tonewood is for is instruments that have a hollowbody or are acoustic, or use a micro phonic pickup. In those cases there are very noticeable differences there. I’d argue the rest of tonewood is entirely a feel thing on solid body electrics, with most of that coming down to finish moreso than the wood. A resonant piece of wood regardless of type you’ll feel with your body when you play, which is why resonance is arguably a good quality, but that’s the end of it. Spending insane money on tonewood isn’t it. That money can be spent on better pickups, or in my case the endurneck design on strandberg guitars. Save money on solid bodies and you’ll never notice the difference in practical application.

[@TheMemagNeman]

​@@solkvist8668 Why would a hollow body be of different tone than solid body , if they had the same pickups/setup? Materials? When string vibrates , it oscillates between 2 points (saddle and nut/fret) , right. Some of that kinetic energy/vibration is transferred through those 2 points through the guitar body/neck, which we can feel and hear (get your ear on to that guitar). So my guess it that there is an observable interaction between the guitar body and string vibration, in that it modulates how the vibration is realized and finally picked up by the guitar pickup. I agree pickup is the ultimate eq , and I have changed alot of them in the past. But I also changed saddle/nut material to great results and I am of firm belief that some components matter more than the others, and that it all functions like a system. I don't think I will spend money on expensive guitars but I think materials used in the guitar matter in total sum of things, be it minor it's still there. These are as valid "material" doesn't matter tests as Jim's are. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pneycntsbZp-j6c kzbin.info/www/bejne/pKOokqVtmcyJras I'd also be curious to listen to the high fidelity samples and audio analysis of the samples Jim presented. Cheaper guitars don't have to be better instruments just because one dude posted some video about the tone and the materials. Usually, the more expensive guitars are better instruments, regardless if the tone is the same as on a cheap guitar. Some are work of art and people enjoy their beauty. Recently I have listened to a bunch of 59 bursts which sounded like shrill shit to me. If we are deaf, there is no difference in tone.

[@matthewdavidklein]

Very well put. The debate about how wood impacts tone (referring specifically to solid body electric guitars) typically poses question of DOES wood affect tone, but rarely does it ask HOW. At the end of the day, pickups generate a magnetic field. The strings vibrating in that magnetic field generate a signal which passes through the electronics in the guitar, through the cable, and out of the amplifier, and that is what we ultimately hear as tone. So the only way wood could impact tone is if somehow the resonance of the wood had some impact on how the strings are vibrating, or how the pickups are detecting the vibrations of the strings. And I struggle to see how it would be significant enough to be perceptible, even it’s even happening. Ultimately it comes down to what is affecting the vibration of the strings, and how that vibration is being picked up: scale length, type of strings, type of pickups, placement of pickups, and the distance between the pickups and the strings, are going to be the most important. Then, to a lesser degree, the tuners, nut, saddles, and pots - since all of those are making direct contact with the strings/electrical signal. If the wood itself impacts how the strings vibrate, I very much doubt it makes much difference.

[@mikestavisky8009]

It is such a small difference that with closed eyes, almost no one is going to notice. I'm sure there IS one single person out there that could discern it. But the typical player and audience will never EVER know. But what you want, play what you like.... but don't get sold on the b.s. Teo of the exact same models will sound "different" to a computer/spectrum analyzer type of test. But to a person? You're right. You're never going to notice.

[@Eric_Smith2662]

What song is that at 5:41

[@KrisBarocsi]

It’s not really a song, just for chords that are used in many songs. 👍

[@MindsDozer]

Did you precisely match the pickup-string distance in your tests?

[@KrisBarocsi]

Hey John, yes of course. I’m a guitar tech and I couldn’t take myself seriously if I didn’t make sure of that. Cheers!

[@pedrobastos8132]

My main gripe with the whole tonewood thing is that people, both players, stores and manufacturers (looking at you Paul Reed Smith) like to try to reduce each component's importance down to a sort of finely tuned and controllable variable, stuff like, "if you make a guitar out of mohagany you will get this X tone, but if you make out of Alder you will get that Y tone", almost as it were building a gaming PC and choosing the parts one by one, which I think is just hogwash. Nowadays, whenever I pick a guitar I ask myself four things: 1) Is it well setup? 2) Does it hold tune? 3) Does it feel good to play? 4) Does it sound good? And done, people should going crazy about the super minor details because it is really hard to measure. An electric guitar is a very complex instrument build of a variety of materials that are all interacting together, so it's just dumb to try and look at each component in isolation. The original video is great because it really helps opening people's eyes about it.

[@Pleusch]

How do you get a lot of sustain? You prevent the energy from being released from the strings to the body so that the string vibrates longer. What properties does a guitar need so that the wood has an audible influence on the sound? A high level of efficiency in transferring vibrations to the body and back to the string. Only then can the wood influence the tone. By its own sound, interfering with that of the string. So you can't have both. Sustain and resonance contradict each other. It's just physics, not mumbo-jumbo. No matter what wood. If the string is not vibrated again so that the sound can be transmitted to the coils by induction. Then no 1000-year-old tropical wood that was carried 5000km through the jungle by blind children will help you. There are also all sorts of psychological effects, that hinder you from getting an objective answer. Confirmation bias. Belief bias. Backfire Effect. Endowment effect. Bias blind spot. Cheers

[@TheMemagNeman]

Then that means if we stick a piece of rubber beneath the nut and bridge the sustain will be longer, because the vibrations are not passed to the guitar body? How about this one, does it sound different and why? kzbin.info/www/bejne/pneycntsbZp-j6c

[@jacobbarber3131]

@@TheMemagNeman you’re confusing resonance with elasticity. Rubber is an elastic material meaning that when you apply a force to it, it will deform and dissipate that energy as heat, whereas wood or metal are comparatively inelastic. An inelastic material will accelerate as a rigid body, meaning that it will vibrate with the string. inelastic materials are far less efficient at dissipating vibration than elastic ones. That’s why we make tires from rubber and not wood or metal. The physics at play here is not hard to grasp

[@TheMemagNeman]

​@@jacobbarber3131 Rubber would isolate vibration and reduce it's transmission to the wood in the guitar, it would be an ineffective material for guitar parts, that was my (sort of) point. I think material choice is important in guitar build.

[@Pleusch]

@@TheMemagNeman No rubber is absorbing Energy. That's why you use Rubber for all absorbing applications. Bumper, Wheels so on.

[@Pleusch]

@@TheMemagNeman As already explained. Rubber Absorbs Energy ! 🤦🏻 F- Go physics class again.

[@bimwopbarn47]

I was so delighted with Jim Lill's video and testing protocol and when I saw your video's title I came loaded for bear, ready to dump on you for being a naysaying beauty-destroyer. but wait a second, noooo! I'm the naysaying beauty destroyer for having thought that. what is beautiful about your response is that you totally accept, respect and admire the work Jim did, and then give a very honest and thoughtful view of what it really could mean. the idea of 90% or even 95% of the sound being the same but then something different being contributed over the top makes a lot of sense to me. perhaps this is simplistic but could that be analogous to fundamental tone plus overtone and undertone series? and the decay patterns and all that ... so how could we go back to Jim and say lookit this was (literally) beautiful conception and testing - is there a way to record this stuff and then visually analyze the tone? then maybe we can reconcile the Kris and Jim ideas. also, hats off for pointing out that the air guitar, no matter how enjoyable a concept and implementation, is actually a workbench guitar. like many great ideas I didn't think of, as soon as I heard it I thought "of course, everybody knows that!" :)

[@joecampbell971]

Thanks Kris, I really enjoy your videos, always inspiring and educational. You really make that Tele talk, absolutely love it! (From an ancient bass player) 😁

[@KrisBarocsi]

Cheers Joe, I really appreciate the kind words! 👏

[@joecampbell971]

@@KrisBarocsi as an inexperienced guitarist I've found various pick types and guages to have a huge influence on my clean tones. I've tried dozens, but always seem to gravitate towards a standard Ultex 0.73mm. I presently play a Squier Tele Deluxe. Which are your favorite picks, if I may ask?

[@KrisBarocsi]

@@joecampbell971 yes of course, there are so many things that influence the tone. Pick is definitely one of them. I really like the Ultrex too and at the moment I’m using the Dunlop Flow 1.5 picks. I like its tone and the feel. Nice and low string resistance but good grip. Cheers!

[@joecampbell971]

@@KrisBarocsi thanks again, I also have the Flow 1.0 and 1.5 picks which I really enjoy. Keep well 🙂

[@lvonh9388]

A note on a thing that seems crucial to me but is never mentionned : the way an instrument vibrate/resonate is feel by the player, particulraly in the neck, and this feeling you get (when you look to the west...)have a direct influence on the way you play and therefore the way your guitar sounds

[@xneurianx]

This is one of those debates where it doesn't matter what anyone says or what "evidence" either side produces; everyone just believes what they believe. Personally MY ears don't notice a difference in woods in any of the videos I've watched that claim to prove tonewood is a thing. So either my ears aren't great or the people saying they can hear a difference are deluded or lying. At the end of the day, I don't think it matters. If you believe in tonewoods and you're willing to spend the money on nice woods and that makes you happy, that's great. If you don't and prioritise pickups or amps or whatever, and THAT makes you happy, that's also great. If you think tone is all in the fingers and just practice your nuts off all day and THAT makes you happy, that's great too. Just do what makes you happy and stop worrying about what other people think about guitar manfacture.

[@KrisBarocsi]

Thank you James!! In my opinion that’s the only right way of seeing it. That’s why I completely understand and respect people who see things differently than I do. 🙏

[@DimKAt21]

Best comment on the subject, period.

[@benink5690]

I hate to say it but it's your ears

[@KeithMcKissick]

Yup. Beliefs is a good word to describe what's going on between camp "Tonewood" and camp "Non-Tonewood". Guitarist on this subject are about as worse as religion. That's why you got 200 different denominations in Christianity, alone. Lol. Nobody's changing their minds.

[@pharmerdavid1432]

Listening to music online is much different than playing the guitars myself, THEN I can hear a difference between tone woods.

[@choiceblade]

As I watched the (excellent) video you refer to here it occurred to me that the air guitar (and any guitar) derived its tone from the enormous mass of the bench and was interesting for the isolation of this influence from the presence of a neck. So cool!