Reaction To Die Anstalt - Stuttgart 21 Die ganze Wahrheit! (This SHOCKED Me!!)

[@Kskskskskskskdkdmfjfhdb]

"How did this project get so far?" --- good point Mert. Many people are asking themselves this exact same question.

[@PaulWinkle]

The minority is asking this question, there was referendum. Respect democracy only once plz. Of course TheAnstalt doesnt mention the referendum, strange isnt it? And if they do, it was a manipulation of the people. However your side lied so many times, who manipulated whom? The station tower was allegedly at risk of collapse, it is still standing!

[@saschamenzel3680]

It was answered in the same Episode. Maybe it's available with subtitles too? Von Wagner took one of his boards.

[@TheKartoffel101]

a lot of coruption. Because the new station will be under ground Stuttgart, a city with very limited space due to the mountains, will have a lot of free building area in the middle of the city. The girlfriend of the ex prime minister of Baden Würtemberg for example gets a space for a own shop in the new city part that's going to be build.

[@PaulWinkle]

@@TheKartoffel101 No corruption at all, yes a lot of space will be free above ground, what a sin to cultivate that area. Is that all evidence you got? Your personal inner devils? Did the girlfriend of the ex prime minister have a name? Did she got that area for free?

[@T0MT0Mmmmy]

The reason it went so far, because those who don't wanted it still voted for those in parliament who forced it. Simple as that!

[@4Astaroth]

One of my favorites from the show. I love the rise of drama during every minute. The protests were all laughed at in the early days of this. Then no one protested anymore as it was obvious this project is even worse than most people thought.

[@PaulWinkle]

There are still a handfull of ppl who are protesting, however there was a referendum. Democracy? Read the wiki article about it

[@kix1464]

Yeah and then everyone asks in total disbelief "how could this have happened?".

[@Drae-909]

@@PaulWinkle One more example why referendums are dumb. People are too stupid to make good political decisions like this.

[@username188388293]

@@PaulWinkle Your comments all show why you should never trust someone with a german flag in his profil picture. The referendum was dumb. It was state wide about a regional project and it was missleading: You had to vote "yes" to say "no" to the project. Read the wiki article about it

[@PaulWinkle]

@@Drae-909 politicians are stupid, ppl are stupid, SMA was stupid, mediation was stupid, but all of a sudden they are not if they decide the way YOU like

[@stefanfeyle1096]

There is a second part of this sketch where they explain the political etymology of this project. Max Uthoff (in the green jacket) plays one of the protesters against Stuttgart 21.

[@freibier]

Yes, the second part is really good, too. All the corruption, managers moving to other companies which profit from the deals they made, etc. Sadly, that episode probably is not all that interesting for this channel, because most people outside Germany probably have never heard of those people or companies.

[@PaulWinkle]

Their left wing view of an political etymology . SMA mediator's decision says the new train station is gonna be good! And dont forget the referendum.

[@cripp17]

Yes, Mert, try to get the second part - corruption as its best! Poor Germany!

[@PaulWinkle]

@@cripp17 There was no corruption, it is a leftie lie.

[@Nforcer524]

@whoismertsalih The second part of the video is called "Wer ist schuld an Stuttgart 21? - Die Anstalt vom 29.01.2019", you should definitely watch it if you really are interested in how it could have come to this

[@currentofthesnake8486]

I was living near Stuttgart at the time. In 2010, that is. It was a real state of emergency. The high point was of course when the order was given from above to break up the demonstrations. It ended with the police officers beating up the grandmas and grandpas who wanted to stage a 1968 revolt again.

[@spunk88888]

I live in Stuttgart as well. As far as I understand it, this whole thing is a big real estate issue. Due to its topographical structure, Stuttgart did not have any more space for any new real estate projects in the city center. So no more big money for some rich company owners. Their solution: Get all the rail infrastructure underground, so there is more space to build commercial buildings in the most expensive area of the city. They don't care the least about the quality of rail traffic. That is why the new main station will be way less efficient than the old one. Strange though that Deutsche Bahn enthusiastically went along with it, but then it is Deutsche Bahn, a loooong story in itself.

[@michamuller3451]

The rich guys don´t use train anyway ;)

[@username188388293]

The Deutsche Bahn owns the tracks and the land around it. They will make money with this. That happens, when you privatise infrastructure: They focus on making money.

[@TheKartoffel101]

The girlfriend of the ex-prime minister of Baden Würtemberg (Öttinger) for example gets a space for her own shop in the new city part that's going to be built. Soooo yeah definitely no corruption here. The Deutsche Bahn will sell the land which means the company gets a lot of money.

[@currentofthesnake8486]

Stuttgart ist halt eine drecks hässliche Stadt, wie so Viele in Deutschland und so wollten sie die halt noch hässlicher machen.

[@gardevoirtraunmagil3881]

I love this episode of the Anstalt. They made verry good Videos. In one of their more recent episodes they also showed how easily it is possible to eliminate German democracy and our highest court. That was very scary. They are great

[@KeVIn-pm7pu]

I dont. They simplified this topic too much. There is a good counter Video: Die Wahrheit über Stuttgart 21 die es nicht gibt

[@gardevoirtraunmagil3881]

@@KeVIn-pm7pu What do you expect ? It is an entertainment program with a limited time and one can certainly be critical of the project. Of course it has many different advantages. But there are also many inconsistencies in the project that Die Anstalt pointed out in this episode

[@PaulWinkle]

DieAnstalt is very strange, always against germany, the west in general, the NATO. Those "comedic" lefties who "know" that capitalism is gonna fall some day, but it never happens.

[@KeVIn-pm7pu]

@@gardevoirtraunmagil3881 well they simplified some points to a point they are not even correct anymore. did you watch the video i recommended it talks about some. s21 is certainly not a project free from any valid criticism of course not i still hope they keep the train station above and just use the one below as an additon. that would certainly make the train infastructure a lot more futureproof.

[@PaulWinkle]

@@KeVIn-pm7pu dude the station above is kaputt. And all the railways to that station are 100 years old they cut through the inner city. Cant repair that crap anymore. And those 15 tracks they always block each other, many trains have to stop infront of the station, waiting for those exiting the station. Driving into that pithole takes longer than 5 minutes, more like 10 sometimes. Terminal stations were built in old times for old steam trains with limited range. 8 tracks parallel are better than 15 used serially.

[@Ace-Of-Spades---]

The person who planned the shit was apparently also responsible for the approval. I've been wondering for a long time why those who plan something like this don't have to be financially responsible for its implementation. Then such "It has to work" and "What doesn't fit will be made to fit" buildings would not even be tried to build.

[@olivermeineke9707]

So who was the person who planned and approved it? You don't know the name, don't you? Because that person doesn't exist. The project has been approved by the people of Baden-Württemberg in a referendum. If you want to have personal financial resposibility of those, who plan infrastructure, you will have only private investment in infrastructure - and that means, that you will have private monopolys on the the infrastrucure sector and very high prices for the users. You seem to be a very unexperienced peson - at least in economics.

[@liamwagner6597]

​@@olivermeineke9707 At least he is intelligently down to earth enough to recognize what is wrong with the German understanding of economics in business and politics (but, admittedly, also anywhere else): responsibility is ignored.

[@olivermeineke9707]

@@liamwagner6597 return of investment in infrastructure most times lasts for more than a livetime. Your understanding of personal responsibility would be - at least in this subject - a cause of widespead stagnation in a society.

[@liamwagner6597]

@@olivermeineke9707 I got that too, but I'm still a strongly believer in responsibilty. Because when stagnation comes in it could lead to more accurate planning or even let go projects that obviously really are meant to be failing. I'm studying arts, industrial design and architecture. And at least in the two latter fields I expierenced through several projcets that "unexpected" failures where made. The aftermaths caused engineers losing there reputation and, of course jobs. But it wasn't even a rumor that the chain of errors mainly began with the decision-makers. Be it that plans were changed due to budget cuts and that the technical level had to work with cheaper materials, or it was due to the ego of some managers who ignored the warnings of the people in technical planning. And in the end, technicians are often the ones who had to shoulder the responsibility or were even made the usual scapegoats. The processes in social, political and public projects are not that different. And the drama rarely comes at the expense of those who make bad decisions at the upper decision-making level. And I can say I witnessed that in my fields of studies, very stupid decisions are often made in real life, especially at these upper levels. And whether it happens in business or in politics, these people must be held accountable for their mistakes at firrst. Even if it only means that they are get removed from their jobs or positions. But that's just my thought. Have good day.

[@matthau87]

@@olivermeineke9707 The people of Baden-Württemberg didn't get to make the original decision for Stuttgart 21, they only voted for their state to continue funding the project, years after construction had already started (if they even understood what they were voting for).

[@cedrictekken6063]

the project is a disaster. I live in Stuttgart and fuck myself up every time I arrive at the train station and have to take the detour from the main train station to the city center. I remember how 15 years ago the demonstrators against the project were laughed at by many people. They were right about everything, today I hardly know anyone who is still looking forward to Stuttgart 21.

[@zaldarion]

me too and everytime I drive by these poor 3 trees between königsstrasse and the park, it's a shame. remember green party who "let's the citizens vote" and set the vote up for a trap, you had to answer yes if you don't want the new train staion? at that moment, I realized, that the local green is more conservative than cdu could ever been....

[@paha4209]

Even DB acknowledges now that the station is going to be too small and they they need a second train station in S to handle of of the trains and we still are going to have problems with the infrastructure of the station itself. Recently i noticed an uptake in ICE going to Karlsruhe (from Munich) sometimes even skipping out Stuttgart in favor of Esslingen. Maybe that´s the plan going forward until this mess is sorted out. Giving KA more trains (since they don´t run much trains for a station this size) and ease the burden on S21.

[@zaldarion]

@@paha4209 damnit, why are allways the dumbest persons politicians? everytime I see or hear s/th about the station, it boils my blood and I try not to have a tantrum, but it's getting harder to supress

[@paha4209]

@@zaldarion It wasn´t stupidity that brought us the train station but corruption and greed. It was never about the station to begin with but the park next to the station for building office buildings and high class apartments.

[@zaldarion]

@@paha4209 I know, I did not want to spoil if someone wants to watch the other part of the stuttgart 21 die anstalt episode. I'm still upset about the local green party. back in the days I didn't thought they were as corrupt as the others, how wrong I was.... we had the worst street planing (city ring, charlottenplatz, blocking wind circulation so smok sticks around), worst u-bahn planing (cut of the view from weinsteige) and I could go on and on.

[@hisaco7856]

As for your question: Most ppl I know got to know such details through our satire shows, like Die Anstalt. It's just a pain to read through all the German newspapers and get these information yourself... And you asked about German bureaucracy in an earlyer video: For that I recommend the "Realer Irrsinn" parts from "Extra 3" about 60% they do is about the chaotic situation in Germany

[@shelbynamels973]

FYI Roland Emmerich is a movie director who mostly directs movies involving large-scale disasters and catastrophic mass casualties scenarios.

[@1evonvielen]

Back in 2010, I have been protesting regularly against S21 and it were crazy times. Especially when there was a students protest and they decided to start clear the park with water cannons on that day. We were completely shocked. My mom didn't want to let me go back to Stuttgart the next day because she was worried what might happen to us if we continue our protest. I've never felt so helpless as I did during these days and weeks. Looking back on it, it feels a bit sureal. So, yes, I have very strong feelings about S21 and I still don't understand why they thought a stupid train station was worth all the mess they made.

[@Kiranbela438]

I come from Karlsruhe, 75 km from Stuttgart, the same federal state. I have never understood how the state government approved this project with a clear conscience. I am actually a supporter of representative democracy, i.e. an opponent of referendums at federal level. But I am a supporter of referendums at local level. And I always thought it was necessary to let the people of Stuttgart decide on the construction of this station. -The majority of people in Stuttgart agreed then and have always agreed today that they don't want this station.

[@Talon5516-tx3ih]

Asking Nimbys is a lot of the problem that infrastructure projects have in Germany. Arguably it's more for the region than the people of Stuttgart.

[@PaulWinkle]

Dude it is much better than transfering money to east-germany again and again. Stuttgart and the whole state is rich, but we have to give away all the money. S21 is a good project, we should spend more money for our infrastructure. Russians destroyed east-germany, but we cant pay and pay over 30 years after still and over again!

[@daswasich1147]

@@PaulWinkle Bruh, the money going to east germany was necessary since a few rich assholes from western germany privatised whole east german industries under the treuhand. both east and west-germans are loosing in this fake conflict that only benefits the rich and the politicians who brought the formerly nationalized Industry in private Hands.

[@yeetyeet7070]

The most insane part of it: all of this was known from the outset of the project. Also never forget the criminal Stefan Mappus, who intentionally injured over 160 people and blinded Dietrich Wagner during the bloodiest crackdown against the protests.

[@1evonvielen]

Der Deppus war ein Mapp...

[@currentofthesnake8486]

Hat den Fettsack damals die Wiederwahl gekostet. Stattdessen gibs seitdem den ewigen Grünkohlbiden vom Neckar.

[@HATECELL]

As the German satire news site "the postillon" said: instead of a subterranean train station it would be easier, cheaper, and faster to build a normal train station and then just raise the entirity of Stuttgart until it becomes a subterranean station

[@KillahZomby]

FYI ... the reason this project get's pushed is that with the smaller train-station - premium space for apartments becomes available

[@Laserfrankie]

The state government of Baden-Württemberg (incidentally the Green Party) had a referendum held at the time and a majority was in favor of the project. There's nothing you can do, in a democracy the majority decides, no matter how much you disagree with them. No opinion is better or more correct than the other, even if people tend to think differently. The project is now in its final stages and we'll know who was right in about 10 years.

[@LibertarianLeninistRants]

Die Anstalt is the best

[@sebastians.6892]

You are shocked? But that's just the tip of the iceberg that is explained here. No mentioning of the ever raising costs, the delay of the whole project and the various bits and pieces that are getting known from time to time.

[@johnnywalker472]

You absolutely have to watch Georg Schramm somewhen. He is basically always an alter ego when on stage, it's amazing art.

[@NimbusDE]

Pretty unusual for German construction and security standards. The reasons why most construction projects take a long time in Germany are the precaution measures and the adjustments after realizing that the required 100% of the specifications presented by law have not been accomplished. With Stuttgart 21 it seems like no one gives a single damn about whats happening, neither the projects exekutives nor the government.

[@stefan.defiman]

I am from Stuttgart and demonstrated against it. As usual, the majority of society does not listen to facts, but is guided by cheap opinion-making. As it always seems to be, unfortunatley.

[@Emulleator]

well on one hand you have damning facts about problems and on the other hand the old Hauptbahnhof just wasn't sexy

[@noway2451]

@@Emulleator to be fair it was the ugliest central station ive ever been to. but some renovations couldve helped too i guess.

[@PaulWinkle]

Demonstrier lieber gegen Autobahnen, nicht gegen Schienenprojekte. Den Schlichterspruch der SMA habt ihr euch weggesoffen oder wie war das? Achja, "das Kapital" steckt ja immer unter einer Decke. Aber davor habt ihr die SMA freudig begrüsst. Heuchler!

[@stefan.defiman]

@@Emulleator Yeah, it wasn‘t. But for an invest about 10 billion euros the main thing should not be a fancy new architecture. Realistically, it will be more likely to be 15-19 billion

[@Enwaiyre]

Ich habe unglücklicherweise damals für ja gestimmt weil mir dir Debatte darüber damals schon auf den Keks ging und ich wollte dass es aufhört. Wäre wahrscheinlich eh gebaut worden egal ob die Mehrheit dagegen gewesen wäre.. Aber wer weiß, die Pyramiden damals wollte bestimmt auch kaum jemand außer der Pharao 😄

[@username188388293]

I lived in BaWü back then. Critics warned of the dangers, the rising costs, the delays, long before they've become reality. After the protests grew and grew, they decided to just beat them up. Completly peaceful protesters, children, elderly people, conservativ citizens. It's not uncommon for governments and police to do so, but this time, they hit their own, conservativ voter base. They lost the following election and got replaced by the green party. A court ruled later, that the police acted unlawfull and unnecessary cruel.

[@malitze]

Stuttgart21 is a prime example of corruption and abuse of power so much that it is actually mind blowing that something like this is possible. The "benefit" of this disaster is (compared to e.g. extending & improving the existing infrastructure) is that by going underground frees up valuable real estate above ground. Not to mention the bottlenecks in infrastructure & traffic that the massive construction sites have introduced. It's too bad that this episode was not already out before we voted on the project, I am pretty sure to majority would have rejected it after seeing this.

[@paha4209]

I´m from BW, Baden to be more precise and i know a lot of people didn´t went out to vote because "the station is going to be build anyway doesn´t matter that i vote against it". Iirc correctly the turn out for the vote was also pretty abysmal for such an important vote.

[@Skimbleshanks73]

Common misconception there. We never voted on the project. No normal citizen ever voted on the project. The vote was only regarding thr payment. If the state (BaWü) pays for it all or just a portion. We never had the option to vote against the project itself.

[@Dr_Klops]

The point why the buildings had to replaced was that the new one was turned 90 degrees - the new tracks run in another direction. This was not possible with the old layout.

[@annemckervey9023]

Speaking of wheelchairs. The original plan had emergency tunnels leading up from the station all with stairs. Asked about what wheelchair users would be doing in case of an emergency the Bahn said that fellow travellers would certainly agree to carry them. Upstairs, in an emergeny, with smoke or rising water. And some of those wheelchair users weigh more than 20kg. That train station is a death trap. Let's never go there.

[@cooler_boi_patrick3989]

Just so you can understand the joke about the Trainstation Wolfsburg. It is commonly known that some high speed Trains who are late by plan just skip Wolfsburg to be a bit more on time. ( it doesn't happen that often but everyone has heared of it)

[@trianglestroublecreations6529]

Wasn't it more like the train drivers just forgot to stop there occasionally? Not that often, but more than once I remember having heard the explanation that some ICE trains stop in Wolfsburg and some don't, so it happens, that the driver loads the wrong timetable without Wolfsburg on it?

[@cooler_boi_patrick3989]

@@trianglestroublecreations6529 I mean. weather your or my memories are correct, the DB ist still kinda Stupid xD ( but your memories are also a good posibility

[@jamatg]

​@@trianglestroublecreations6529Yep, exactly

[@mats7492]

Corruption is the answer to all of this!

[@binkaitself1736]

Architekt Roland Emmerich... I laughed so hard 🤣🤣🤣

[@adrians8249]

There is actually a second part of this episode of Die Anstalt, which explains how it did get so far. Don't know if it exists on YT or with English subtitles. Not surprising, it's only because some big fishes in industry and politics smelled some extra money....

[@karowolkenschaufler7659]

recently I listened to a podcast episode of "sideways" about why big projects like this (or the airport BER, or the Elbphilamonie in Hmburg...) always end up way more expensive than estimated and seem to be cursed. if I remember correctly it is a combination of unlucky mechanisms. first of all the city, or state that wants the big thing built is, obligated or at least very likely (but depending on the country really obligated by law) to hire the people who make the cheapest offer. regardless of whether or not they can deliver for that prize... that filters out all the architechts and builders who actually give a realistic estimate... and favours whoever basicly promises you the moon. and then there is a strong tendency to only be prepared for things that can go wrong that can be thought of. but there is rarely some money planned for unforseen problems. and unforseen problems will almost definetly come up, delaying the project and making it more expensive. and in the case of Deutsche Bahn you get other things. conflicting interests. I have a fuzzy memory of the DB company wanting to sell real estate. to make a profit. .... DB should never have been privatised. it should not have to make any profit. just provide mobility to us...

[@TheZuckerfisch]

I had just left Stuttgart to go to university in another city when the construction started and so every time I came home for summer break or for the holidays to see my family the station looked a little different. I am sad to say that as of today (15 years later!) we have not reached a part where that's a good thing, it just keeps getting worse. For example: I used to be able to just get off the train, walk down a few steps, catch the bus, and 10 minutes later I'd be on my parents' sofa having a snack. Right now just to get from the trains to the bus stop/ the taxi stand you have to walk around the entire construction site - which takes at least 10 minutes if you're physically fit. Plan for at least 30mins if you're dropping your grandparents off. I have had elderly tourists ask me how much further it was and it was all I could do not to laugh at their hopeful expressions. It truly feels like an eternity, walking through a dimly lit tunnel (especially late at night, when you're travelling by yourself) on an incline (which I cannot for the life of me understand as all of the construction is taking place below ground, why can it not be level then?) - or (if you're going the other way around) exposed to the elements no matter what the season wishing your lugagge was on offroad wheels because of the awful ground conditions and most of the time you feel like the way is leading further away from where you want to go. The last time I was there I also noticed that all of the guiding lines for visually impaired people lead straight into walls or underneath the construction fences... So suffice it to say... I cannot wait for it to be completed!

[@PEGIZEI]

Stuttgart 21 is really a story in itself. I think the engineers will have done their best to prevent these worst-case scenarios, but this will also require more maintenance. Nevertheless, a higher risk has been taken with a less powerful "stopping point" here. Of course, Die Anstalt sums it all up perfectly.

[@PaulWinkle]

DieAnstalt is a bunch of lying lefties, there was a referendum after a very long mediation (aired live), remember? Repeating lies for many years doesnt make them true

[@KeVIn-pm7pu]

I disagree. they made a ok job. but they could do much better. some points are very exaggerated to a point that they are not true anymore. " Die Wahrheit über Stuttgart 21 die es nicht gibt" show a few of them. look it up

[@bernhardkrickl3567]

I've watched this episode when it aired. It's a great one :)

[@martingerlitz1162]

Stuttgart 21 is a sad example of not having informed and participated the population. They brutally have destroyed the park and have gone against the people who have demonstrated against it... Horrible example for a democracy!

[@jamatg]

This video does a really good job in showing and explaining S21(as we like to abbreviate it)'s disadvantages and problems (of which there are even more, some of which can be seen in a follow-up episode, as already mentioned by many others here in the comments). But obviously, it's not very neutral. The opponents conceal not only the positive things (that do definitely exist), but also that their counterarguments aren't completely watertight. On the trilingual (mostly German audio, but English and French subtitles) KZbin Channel Traines there is a video called "The truth about Stuttgart 21 that doesn't exist" which shows some more points against S21, but also some in favour of it. It's really good and well researched and I definitely recommend that you check it out, even though it's not as funny as Die Anstalt but still very interesting.

[@amigalemming]

This episode of "Die Anstalt" was great and told the untold facts many people did not want to hear. In the minutes after the clip you have shown, the Anstalt explains the true reason for Stuttgart 21: Actually, the projects goal is not to improve anything about the train and the station, but the railroad is in the way, and the politicians want to remove it in order to get new space for office buildings in the city.

[@nachtaktiv1]

When i hear the word Stuttgart21 i have to think about the poor old guy whos eyes got blown out by the police...

[@bluenomad73]

The construction of Stuttgart 21 will free up huge areas that the city of Stuttgart can sell at a very high price for real estate construction. This is the only reason why the Stuttgart 21 is being built. The city of Stuttgart collects the money, the German taxpayer pays for the costs of the technological regression Stuttgart 21.

[@thorsten6422]

The use of water cannons that ended up blinding some people was and still is one of the biggest scandals the city has seen in the past 15 years. Mappus should be in jail.

[@JoSheeply]

Dietrich Wagner, the man who was hit in the eyes by the water cannon and went blind, died recently, in June 2023, at the age of 79. RIP.

[@thorsten6422]

@@JoSheeply Well, RIP.

[@jurgenbuschmann9867]

​@@JoSheeply Dietrich Wagner verdient ein angemessenes und würdiges öffentliches Andenken.

[@TheKartoffel101]

@@jurgenbuschmann9867 Könnte mal jemand bei der Stadt nachfragen ob es eine Dietrich Wagner Straße geben wird.

[@youngstar312]

There is a sequel that explores who is responsible called "Wer ist schuld an Stuttgart 21?"

[@ralphschiefer7576]

I live in Cologne not Stuttgard so we hear this from the news, but with this I now know what's the matter with this. BTW we in Cologne have our own Stuttgard 21, it is the operra house which is now years in renovation and just recently they have told us that it will delayed again!

[@Lorlen88]

Welcome to Germany, where money is more important then laws, historical monuments, safety and of course lifes. Thank you capitalism.

[@Schmudini]

Thats not Germany exclusive

[@Lorlen88]

@@Schmudini True

[@flixm9928]

There are 193 countries, and I dare you to find countries, where laws, historical monuments, safety and lifes are more important or handled more strictly then in Germany. I am pretty sure that you won't find more than a handful - if any.

[@Lorlen88]

@@flixm9928 To be precise, there are 15 countries that are ranked better than Germany in the capitalism Index. And even in the democratic index there are 13 countries that are ahead of Germany.

[@enoiladoe]

Their use of hyperbole that's hitting center truth is so excellent.

[@PaulWinkle]

Their very own truth also known as lies. The water reservoirs are safe, there were too many expertises saying so

[@markusschenkl7943]

I'm afraid it's gonna be a major nightmare... I often travel from Nuremberg to Karlsruhe via Stuttgart and it's already VERY tight in Stuttgart. 2 of 3 times the train has to wait before entering or leaving Stuttgart because there's so much traffic around. With only 8 tracks... well... 😒

[@Talon5516-tx3ih]

Because it's a Kopfbahnhof, where all the trains need to make longer stops to change direction, with only 2 tracks in and 2 tracks out and only 5 of 16 platforms that can be used for through traffic. You'll be one of the biggest winners: the new station will probably save you 5 minutes.

[@ABode-er7rz]

The whole project was politically motivated. One of the reasons why we tend to think that many of our politicians are complete morons. I'm a civil engineer, and even I cannot understand, why they planned the station with such a steep gradient and totally ignored the gyspsum keuper. If I lived in Stuttgart, I would probably relocate to another city in order to not have to use this parody of a station.

[@heikeschikschneit1385]

When the protests started, they tried to appease the public by holding a debate on television that lasted several hours. Those who wanted to prevent the station produced one expert opinion after another. And in the end, all they said was: "The railroad has the right on its side." .... I think pretty much all the predictions of the railroad opponents were fulfilled (or even exceeded). There's a second excerpt from this episode of the Anstalt. There they explain that the railroad station is only to be moved underground so that the vacated area can be used as a building site...in other words: a few people wanted to make a fortune out of it, regardless of whether it harms the general public or not!

[@TotoTotor]

Finally you watch the Anstalt. You might also like the episode on the inception of Stuttgart 21.

[@ducjon3268]

There ist actually a Video from Die Anstalt, that explains why Stuttgart 21 happened. Its called "'Wer ist schuld an Stuttgart 21 ''

[@PaulWinkle]

Professional demonstrators and their media protectors

[@marcomarterer7232]

That's my favorite episode maybe because I´m from Stuttgart.

[@derhinek]

Sounds to me like one of these projects, where a customer or manager has an idea and all the engineers, etc. are so busy solving all the problems that come up, that nobody takes a step back to say the idea was the wrong approach to begin with.

[@Trisisda]

I’m from Stuttgart too. In the end it will work somehow. Don’t forget we Arne not only Germans. We are “Schwaben”! Sent from god as the absolute race of mashinery! Pls take this not very seriously 😂

[@achimdemus-holzhaeuser1233]

Ja, how did the schwäbische Hausfrau not prevent this ?

[@Der_Dolmetscher]

Long time ago, Germany was an industrial force to be reckoned with. Today, it’s a place where they build an airport for twenty-five years and defect train stations for thirty. There’s one thing I regret in my life: not emigrating sooner. Having lived in Switzerland for the last six years, I can’t imagine going back to Germany ever again.

[@lorenzkuhn730]

Ich liebe dich und die Anstalt.❤

[@T0MT0Mmmmy]

The protected buildings that were actually demolished were ugly stores. The main building is still alive.

[@arnodobler1096]

Always on point.

[@smaragdwolf1]

im sure we will have a new but similiar scenario in near future^^ First the BER airport, then Stuttgart 21. The next one could be the Maglev "test" Train, that the conservative Party wants to build in Berlin. Sure, its a "small" project compared to this one. But its already clear that the Budget of 85 million will NOT be enough. They dont know where the Track should be build, but they know the route length and the "fix" budget limit. News Articles already calculated that, even with overly positive estimations (no inflation for example), the Budget will not be nearly enough^^ I wonder if they will stop this idea or if the costs "suddenly and unexpectedly" explode XD In all honesty: This reeks of nepotism. The Company that was "picked" to build this Track, is located in Bavaria, where the sister party of the CDU is in Power. I think the feasibility study was done 2021, ordered by the previous Minister of transportation... a high Member of the mentioned Sister Party, CSU.

[@vyse4907]

Also regarding that „Germany clock“ there was a statement by „Die Bahn“ (german rail company) that it will at best be implemented by 2070! (Due to all sorts of problems in the entire train network) so that whole idea will at best be helpful for the next generation… the whole train system in Germany is f**** up

[@ericpraline]

SBB should be put in charge of German train infrastructure

[@MichaelBurggraf-gm8vl]

"... blos acht... ...wie Plochingen." 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Plochingen is a midsize town between Stuttgart and Ulm. Quite a number of its citizens are working in Stuttgart every day.

[@ArneBab]

„How did this get this far?“ - the svabian builders around Stuttgart want the highly valuable construction space at the surface. If I remember correctly, that’s said in a part you don’t see here, because you’re watching just a segment of the full show. We call that lobbyism in Germany. Cannot call it corruption without getting people upset.

[@Der.Kleine.General]

One man was even blinded permanently when the police used the water guns.

[@maharajamumbai1762]

Wooooow

[@ThePixel1983]

It just builds and builds and builds... 😂😭

[@te0nani]

Its about real estate. The old Station is enormous, and putting all that below ground opens the space up for development. That's why it got build. Not because It's better or safer or anything. Money. We have to pay for it that some people can make money out of it. Leaving the public in the dark about all these problems was to drive a wedge between public opinion and the protesters. And it worked. There was a referendum and Pro 21 won.

[@xxJOKeR75xx]

When they planned it it was supposed to cost 2.5 Billion When they started to build it, they expeted it to cost 4.5 billion max. Currently we're at 9.8 Billion cost and the opening is planned for 2025. It would be outragous even if all the other problems around it didn't exist.

[@kaidrache2395]

And most of us already know that the final cost will be far above the 10 billion mark.

[@daswasich1147]

2025 already? thats so soon! i will definetly have to order a ticket from the BER to attend the opening ceremony XD

[@achimdemus-holzhaeuser1233]

Frankfurt/M Train Station , as one of the main traffic hubs in Germany, really really needs to realize a similiar project as Stuttgart to match their capacity to the current traffic volume. ( meaning expanding a Headstation with an underground station with directional flow and a underground tunnel network to route the traffic below a really large city, next to one of the largest rivers in germany ) this is known since the 80s. Common reaction to this problem after looking into it was again and again .. yeah, let's not do this ..

[@eljanrimsa5843]

In Zürich we managed to keep the head station and the magnificent old building above ground as it was, and added new through lines underground. It needed a lot of tunneling, and for one afternoon we got scared by an unexpected hole opening up, the station is right in between the confluence of two rivers, but in the end it worked very well.

[@messerjockel3852]

Germoney- The best democracy money can buy 😆

[@Rick2010100]

The old train station of Stuttgart is a Kopfbahnhof ("head trainstation"). This means the trains enter the train station and have to leave the train station backwards on the same track on wich they came in. So that the passengers do not sit in the opposite direction, i.e. with their backs to the direction of travel, the train then has to be laboriously turned again using switches. A terminus station from the 19th century is completely unsuitable for today. Therefore, the station must be rebuilt, where trains can stop in the direction of travel and then continue directly without detours.

[@MichaelBurggraf-gm8vl]

Many big cities and capitals have terminal train stations, eg. all of London and Paris. The old Stuttgart train station has been one of the most efficient and reliable ones of Deutsche Bahn for many years - even looking good in international comparison.

[@Rick2010100]

@@MichaelBurggraf-gm8vl It does not allow travel through, but this mandatory for high speed trains.

[@maxhelm6157]

Crasy Station and so much money for nothing ! Guter Sender.

[@sokratezz9924]

Another great example is the trainstation of Bad Bentheim. Not as big as Stuttgart 21 but a funny Trainstation-fail in germany as well.

[@Nightknight1992]

i would also recommend zdf magazin royal, next to heute show the best german satire in my books

[@dennisjk768]

2:26 , yes it's satire, but its the best news and political background show you can have about what is going wrong in our beloved country.

[@alicemilne1444]

The thing about Stuttgart 21 is that Stuttgart is actually in the middle of one of Germany's engineering heartlands, and the absolute absurdity of this whole project just got worse and worse every year. This was (and is) one of Germany's occasional grandiose fuckups (even worse than the Berlin airport).

[@motionpictures6629]

They missed the part about trains going from Paris to Munich. Caesar planned a connection between the Rhine and Danube, and stuttgart21 is that connection. It's not faster for people from Stuttgart, but it's faster for everyone going west to east through Stuttgart. The problem with the old station was that Stuttgart is in a valley, and you had to go into the valley and out again on the same side. The new station is underground and connected with 60km of tunnels.

[@PaulWinkle]

It is 30min faster from munich to stuttgart, that's a big thing. Real environmentalists wouldnt try to block railway projects they would more try to sabotage new planned autobahn

[@username188388293]

@@PaulWinkle True scotsman fallacy.

[@PaulWinkle]

@@username188388293 30min less for a 2hours ride? Thats not peanuts. And S21 is an infrastructure project, it is all about the whole railways around Stuttgart, to the airport and so on. The old rusty railways cutting through the city is environmentalism? Oben leben, unten fahren!

[@maikgreubel2685]

The most disgusting thing about S21 was the injury of Dietrich Wagner, and that picture will be always and forever in my mind.

[@PaulWinkle]

He walked into the water canons streams over and over again, Darwin award granted

[@maikgreubel2685]

@@PaulWinkle where did you learned that?

[@PaulWinkle]

@@maikgreubel2685 there are videos on yt. He walked many times into the waterstream, spreading his arms. Meanwhile other peaceful demonstrators threw with wooden long seats

[@T0MT0Mmmmy]

About the hight difference. Depending on the geographical structure of the place Stuttgart is build in, it has a lot of stations with hight differences, no one yet cares about them. Only for Stuttgart 21 it is suddenly a problem.

[@klausberfelde-je2ye]

I guess the First idea was to restructure the dense traffic in Stuttgart...what is in general a good Idea. But then it looks like they wanted to save money and things went the wrong way, starting with research and a necessary environment to get to the right decisions.

[@Yyr85]

"How get this project so far?" You know germany and ww2, if its impossible it goes to the bitter end...

[@PaulWinkle]

jesus it is just a train station, put away the swastikas please. That was always your sides problem, more like between your ears, a radical brain

[@InspektorDreyfus]

Train stations in the middle of cities have always been a bad idea. For most of the travelers the city center isn't the place they want to go. They should have made the trainstation at the airport the major connection hub. And for people who really want to go to Stuttgart downtown add a local express train.

[@danielspeier5269]

👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@thorstenhaul6866]

The show make always of this and that. Fact is: the railway-project had to be done to overcome old infrastructure from the 19th century. At last it will be faster, better and more efficient. Where in the world do you find such an impressive project. Now, my dear haters, you can start and say what you want. 😊

[@HiJk_cy]

1. aus genannten Gründenist aus verkehrstechnischer Sicht kein so großer Nutzen vorhanden 2. Denkmalschutz heißt Denkmalschutz weil er das Denkmal schützt 3. Schutzzone heißt Schutzzone, damit sie die Zone schützt 4. Die Bauzeit ist katastrophal 5. Die Kosten sind katastrophal !

[@Peter_Cetera]

I heart of "Stuttgart 21" but I never thought, that it is that worse! It´s a crime...

[@PaulWinkle]

so bad it leads to 30minutes less travel time from munich to stuttgart pretty much if you keep in mind that it was a ride more than 2 hours long

[@borisjelzin9162]

Long time ago i liked the show, but the corona time make them *both* a kind of *Bodysnatchers* (old movie) victim. (freestyle scool english).

[@athleanbanana8997]

That's Germany for the last 20 years. So many projects like this example. Germany is game over with this sort of political establishment. Billions burnt here and there and to "help" every country in the world.

[@manueln4118]

I am from Stuttgart. Old building Was ugly af but the new Station is only a endless money project for selling stateowned building ground cheap to Private companies and rent it back for more money..

[@jurgenbuschmann9867]

In the German-speaking world, “Stuttgart 21” became a code for “too big to fail". Mega-embarrassing.” 🤦🏼‍♂️

[@dascz1]

Hey pal, I'm watching the newest Die Anstalt Episode right now. It's about the current conflict in middle east and it's History! I really recommend it! The whole show is genius

[@MadMike847]

Ich mag es, wenn du mehr wissen willst.

[@jkb2016]

Doing conscription duty in 2003 I had to pass Stuttgart Hbf, and the station was already a mess. The shocking part was how the police actually managed to DESTROY one person's eye during the protests. It was all over the TV baclk then. The guy in olive btw. speaks with a (slight) local accent. Not too hard so the rest of the country can understand =)

[@PaulWinkle]

Actually "the guy with the eye" walked into the stream of the police water cannon several times, it was his own fault. He wanted to be a martyr. After the "incident" he claimed to be completly blind, I saw him once afterwars reading signs at the train station (no joke)

[@username188388293]

@@PaulWinkle Dude, the court ruled that the actions of the police that day where cruel and simply illegal. And I'm sure you can tell how blind he is by just looking at him. Much more than himself or some medical experts. By the way, he claims to be 'partial blind'.

[@PaulWinkle]

@@username188388293 Dude lets take a look what kind of ppl we were dealing back them. I talked with some of them, they are mostly weirdos. Anti vaccers from 2020 are pretty much the same guys and some switched from left to right wing AfD. I guess the escalations started with the nice policeman in the video "Demo Stuttgart 21 Grundgesetzwidrig". Cant post the link here...

[@daswasich1147]

iirc in this very episode right after that clip they talk about the most likely reason all that was done. Spoiler: the space formerly occupied by the old train station was prime land that was suddenly free and veeeery valuable. thats it. Wasted Billions of taxpayer money to push a couple millions into private Hands

[@PsiQ]

Aaah, also, i think the project is at least 2.5x over the estimated cost now, and not going to be finished with years of delay/costs adding up. Also of course the DB, which was plannin the project and wants to profit from it, doesnt want to and/or cant pay the real costs.. and multiple project lead-managers left with a big failure / lots of money earned for the great job they did in making it.. or not making it. I guess it's more like hush money.

[@walterpost9073]

Yeah the Stuttgart 21 video is heavy, but there is a sequel “Who is to blame for Stuttgart 21?”. Maybe you should watch that too.

[@PaulWinkle]

Like the Elbphilharmonie everybody was crying like babies (german deases) and in the end the same people: wow pretty cool, look what we have created!

[@NikiPendragon]

In Germany it's not about what's possible but what certain people want. Regarding building and other projects at least. Heard of the BER airport? Similar story

[@PaulWinkle]

Like the Elbphilharmonie everybody was crying like babies (german deases) and in the end the same people: wow pretty cool, look what we have created!

[@catwalks1201]

You should defenitely check out Martin Sonneborn. He´s actually head of a satire magazine and founded a political party just for fun (to see how far you can get?) about 15 years ago. So he was not serious about it but finally got voted in the EU Parliament!!! He doesn´t do an awful lot there to influence the EU politics but he created transparency and kind of does (funny) reports about what´s going on there. Actually, he´s a Monty Python act in my point of view. He´s very cynical on the outside but has good intentions and talks about conflicts and issues in the EU, no newspaper talks about etc.

[@mischa1981]

Well, I live near Stuttgart and was at the exhibition to demonstrate the efficiency of S21 about 13 years ago, when I didn't have a clue what's going on. You should know, the plans for S21 are as old as I am, and even older. Im 42 now and I think the first plans were made in the 1980's. Over the years it became more and more expensive, back in 2009 they talked about 5 or 6 billion Euros, now we arrived at 10 billion or something. And in the end nobody knows if it's all really worth it. It was supposed to be a "prestige project", nowadays it is more like the Airport Berlin, a massive hole where billions of Euros of our taxes went down the drain.

[@PaulWinkle]

The project is approximately 80% completed. The Brenner Basistunnel by the way had very similar cost explosions. Oh the brave guys from switzerland they are so much better than we are right? No they are not, the Brenner tunnel, if you compare the very first estimations (not the last estimation 1 year before the project finished, nice little trick there) it is very compareable to S21 regarding cost explosions.

[@dasaggropop1244]

the problem with these communal mega-projects in germany is that they dont involve any professional project planners who are familiar with the logistics and budgeting of such tasks. instead they are supervised by communal officials who are elected or planted based on party politics and have most likely zero experience with anything like that. another beautiful example is the famous berlin airport.

[@PaulWinkle]

It is not communal! The project is only one part of a two parter (dont forget Neubaustrecke to Ulm) and goes all the way from Ulm to Stuttgart, the whole east-west axis of the railways, the whole infrastructure in the region we are talking about dude Nothing TheAnstalt would mention!

[@G.GreenFlame]

Look the second part

[@carolinacremasta277]

Cool. Der Brite findet uns lustig.Wann bekommt Mario Barth den Order of Merit?

[@M1tZk1]

I can only explain it with the sunken cost fallacy. Once you've spend so much money you can't commit that it was a failure and just double nad tripple down on that project.

[@peterreimerMannaufderBank]

Stuttgart 21, Berlin Flughafen und Elbharmonie - 3 Milliardengräber und Mahnmale der maßlosen Verschwendung von Steuergeldern