Reading Hollow Knight's Negative Reviews (So You Don't Have To)

[@explosionspin3422]

The one point in the game where I felt the walk to the boss was too long is the soul master. Even with the shortcut I had to look up, the walk there just takes too long

[@tricksterjustice4801]

Yeah it took me more tries getting to soul master than it took to actually beat him

[@fluffandbutts7955]

the mantis lords bench is a bit too far as well IMO, but the soul master one is terrible! its the narrow corridors full of the teleporting guys that makes it suck for me

[@Noobasador]

It doesn't help that the mantis lords and the soul master are the main bosses the few of the first areas in the game because then newcomers could get discouraged from continuing to play

[@fluffandbutts7955]

@@Noobasador yeah at least the mantis lord one had options on how to get down, and it was clear if you were careful you could get down unharmed. In my first run-through on the soul master, I legit thought I was doing something wrong I was taking so much damage walking their, even with soul chests at the end. but its a tiny scar on an amazing game(though id remove the watcher knights now that I think about it)

[@Kittywittygamer]

Who loses to Soul Master?

[@colin9164]

For the bosses, benches, and backtracking bit, there are quite a few bosses that are hell to trek back towards. Soul Master, Hive Knight, and the Traitor Lord.

[@doc8125]

Yeah and it's not like any of them take a super long time either.... But the entire boss design is largely based on pattern recognition, you are going to die multiple times on your first time with a boss, so backtracking 1-2 min 10 or so times suddenly add up quite a lot in such a boss heavy game. It usually never actually adds any difficulty at all but adds a lot of tedium in the long term

[@doc8125]

@@Mewmew-lv5iv yeah, 100%

[@lightninja4795]

@@Mewmew-lv5iv That just teaches you to learn the patterns.

[@THEKNlGHT]

Yes and when you need like two hours for a boss this is a lot of time wasted on backtracking

[@doc8125]

@@lightninja4795 you know what does that better? Actually spending time fighting the boss

[@OnionThyme]

The thing is, even if the review doesn't say much of value, the negative/positive recommendation is good for the game. It helps show what a general audience feels rather than steam critics.

[@voxelmakesvideos]

Good point

[@Acudit]

Until you realize that three quarters of the bad reviews are just those dumb good reviews that they marked as bad. I wish people would give games the ratings they deserve instead of trying to be witty but just being a headache. All jokes aside, I completely agree.

[@Espartanica]

Acudit If anything all it does is show how bad the community is. They refuse to acknowledge any fair opinions about the game they dislike and tell people not to even look at them

[@Acudit]

@@Espartanica I see your point, but I don't know of a single game that doesn't have people doing that in the steam ratings.

[@Katenkiokotsu]

i'd say "joke reviews" do more harm than good in steam , also steam review system is quite bad, having a thousands of "bad reviews" because someone decided to negative bomb review a game because some stupid reason is one the reason not everybody should be allowed to leave reviews on steam

[@awwastor]

4:40 I also find hornet's contact damage annoying. She's not hard to beat, but at the start it was really annoying to get killed by her casually walking into you instead of an actual attack.

[@airy214]

i keep jumping on her head but after a while i found it funny cus it looked like i was getting impaled on her horns

[@smolcowardlyman1691]

@@airy214 yh i just started 2nd run after not playing for a few years and got spiked by the horn hit box while she was crouching. I forgot how charming hornet is for a little bug thing that mainly just grunts.

[@Austrveg]

just treat her movement as attacks, wait for her to stop, attack, or wtv

[@EaterOfGeese]

I'm not sure if this counts, but there's a "background" boss in one of the silksong trailers, meaning the boss kinda just loses a hitbox and usually only the hands and some other various weapons are what you fight.

[@reinbew62]

Though her bossfight's design is completely centered around contact damage. Her jumping actually is an attack, there's a small telegraph for it I'm pretty sure.

[@ouden.]

I don't think that is something wrong when people criticize something like the backtracking. Is true that is a characteristic of metroidvanias, but not everyone knows what a metroidvania is. I assure you there are thousands of people whose first metroidvania was Hollow Knight due to its popularity and all the good reviews. I'm sure a lot of people decide to buy the game and try it out but they just get bored or annoyed by the concept or the backtracking or its difficulty and decide to drop it and leave their feedback, so it may help other people that come from a similar background and won't enjoy it as much as the average HK player. If they aren't being rude towards the developers or the fans, and they are just giving their opinion regarding their experience with a game, I don't think is necessary to call them out in a way that the reviewer may feel like a rude person.

[@supersamui.4423]

Hollow knight was my first metroidvania, and at first i thought it was just some adventure game and went in blind, didn't even make it to false knight, i just wasnt accustomed. Now i finished the game multiple times + pantheons and its in my top 5 best game

[@figonkus4223]

That was actually exactly my position. I thought metriod vanias means, that you get to play with rocket launcher, plasma rifles and cool mechs in a 2d setting💀

[@GardenVarietea]

​@figonkus4223 Cannot forget about the vampires, cursed armors, grim reapers, and morning stars!

[@jay_jax]

Hollow knight was also my first metro. And I have to say. It will be the reason I try another one of these games. I dont honestly feel like its back tracking at all. Its almost like minecraft in that sense. You are exploring the world. And sometimes you have to go back to the iron ore with the stone pick you just got. I suppose some may call that back tracking. And I do know this is a weird example. I just love this game lol. The world is great.(even if the map is painful sometimes)

[@fraudcakes]

Backtracking is definitely worse in Hollow Knight than something like Super Metroid because there really aren't that many mobility upgrades to make retracing your steps more interesting, the map in HK is much bigger, the different regions are less visually distinct making it a bit harder to get your bearings, and the map/navigation tools in HK are garbo (to be blunt). It's a valid criticism from veterans or newcomers tbh.

[@lotusdragonjbh]

I love that last one "I should have spent more money" (more or less quote.) Buddy saw the effort in the game and thought the developers were under selling themselves.

[@minipretzels]

i legit bought the game 4 times for different accounts and consoles and still feel like i could've spent more lol

[@kolerder]

more like the buddy saw the effort that went in this game and the extremely cheap price and decided to repay by lowering the game average score with his rewiew

[@satoru5791]

If this game costs the same as a AAA game, I would still buy it

[@definitley_not_EA_Sports]

silksong is probably gonna be costing 938484938955973 dollars if team cherry follows through with that review on making it not be there for solksoong

[@ginniegill1026]

Hollow knight really is a 50 dollar game being sold for 16 dollars

[@oinkymomo]

hive knight, traitor lord, and soul master are all far enough from the nearest benches to be frustrating. for soul master, this is even worse if you don't find the shortcut in the elevator to shade soul. but I agree that most bosses are only 1-2 rooms away from a bench

[@Crazy_Diamond_75]

I died to traitor lord so many times, I can do that platforming section in my sleep. It's not that bad. I actually think Mantis Lords is worse, even if it's not as far.

[@CheddahSlammer]

@@Crazy_Diamond_75 It depends on when you fight Mantis Lords, many get the Wall Climb, open the lever and don't realize the floor opened, and then they head to the city of tears. I personally on my first play through did that, and by the time I faced them had two nail upgrades, which made them easy.

[@Crazy_Diamond_75]

@@CheddahSlammer ah, yeah, that would make it easier. If you're not very good at 2D platformers like I was and go straight for them after mantis claws, the gauntlet of enemies can be very difficult.

[@enderlord8771]

@@Crazy_Diamond_75 My first time playing Hollow Knight, it took me forever to beat Traitor Lord, so much so I eventually had to use teleport so I wouldn't have to keep going through that.

[@piggyplays6505]

hive knight and traitor lord yes, soul master not really, every single room in soul sanctum has a short cut. so the bench and soul master is about 3-4 rooms apart or something like that

[@RhyMusicc]

The only backtracking to a boss that was absolutely painful to do was traitor lord.

[@MamRadVlaky]

well you can place a dream gate there to make it shorter

[@-_Alyssia_-]

and hive knight

[@MamRadVlaky]

@@-_Alyssia_- You can fight Hive Knight when you already have Dream Gate...

[@cameronmurdock8585]

@@MamRadVlaky yes

[@sonicpoweryay]

hive night

[@haodongsun4159]

They have an actual point on back tracking the boss, sometimes it's just too much, I would loved an option where it actually teleport me in front of the boss room everytime I die

[@hirahiro2331]

There is. Dreamgate.

[@hirahiro2331]

That’s what I used for Hive Knight and Traitor lord.

[@goldcat2002]

@@hirahiro2331 the issue with your point is that it's completely up in the air at what stage of the game players will get dreamgate i personally didn't get dreamgate until i beat every non-dream boss in the game not that it's a bad thing, but with metroidvania level design you need to consider that some players might not have the teleport spell before you add a mile long trek to the boss

[@hirahiro2331]

@goldcat2002 that's true. I discovered dream gate by accident (I didn't know where I was going furst run, so I found and fought a lot of dreambosses to waste time). From that's POV, it would be convenient for a closer bench or a shortcut for some of sort.

[@mariustan9275]

@@hirahiro2331 Also dream gate uses a limited resource that some players (like me) will refuse to use because they think it's valuable and needed for that bug in the graveyard (forgot the name)'s quest.

[@Chamoi17]

the bench issue I can understand, on my first playthrough of the game I got unbelievably upset about having to walk back to soul master 1000000 times where the closest bench is in an entirely different named location.

[@GSwift59]

Just beat him first try then mate

[@reviewerofcomments]

it's like 2 elevators away, man. i beat that boss in 40 minutes and died more than 10 times

[@AvanToor]

Celeste and Hollow Knight... two examples of why we should never stop doing game jams! Also, all hail Chris Christodoulou!

[@Salmonwithfeet]

every time I hear the raindrop that fell to the sky at the end of these videos it brings me back to the countless times that I have wasted over 10 minutes in siren's call because "no way haha funny legendary item no waaaaay", but that doesn't mean that the raindrop that fell to the sky isn't one of my favourite soundtracks ever composed.

[@AvanToor]

@@Salmonwithfeet Every time I hear any of his faux-guitar synth solos, I just regress to "nononono! Get away from me! You hit like a truck and there's three of you!"

[@unr4g3ux37]

Gosh his name is famous. And that's understandable. His music's great.

[@otame4771]

Also Baba Is You... That game is great

[@tarkir1094]

Celeshit

[@peterpeladon]

The Nosk fight is designed for the player to be the pray; designing that fight so that chasing the boss is hard just makes sense. Never had problems chasing Nosk because I never chased Nosk. Plus the place where he might stop is the same spot, and you could figure that out and predict when he might do it consistently.

[@stevencampbell348]

Yeah, I was so confused as to why he was complaining about one of the telegraphed attacks, like if you just assume that every time he runs past you he’ll stop in the center then you’ll never overextend against him.

[@Kittywittygamer]

Still a terrible boss either way.

[@stevencampbell348]

@@Kittywittygamer Nosk isn’t actually a terrible boss, in fact, I’d rate it in the middle of all the bosses in Hollow Knight, not quite at the level of the great fights, but not as bad as the worst ones.

[@thatotherandrew_]

@@stevencampbell348 Which ones are the worst in your book then?

[@stevencampbell348]

@@thatotherandrew_ the bosses I put below Nosk: Grey Prince Zote Uumuu Vengefly King Gruz Mother Flukmarm God tamer (has very basic attacks and only need to kill the beast to win) Brooding Mawlek Massive Moss Charger

[@erierierierierie]

the thing about the bench locations is also similar to how hard it can be to move. mantis lords might be the best example where even though you're very close, a new player may consistently find it hard to get all the way back, especially on max health

[@Mith07]

Mantis lords are not necessarily required to beat the game though. Plus, if a player struggles enough with them to ask more knowledgeable players or look for tips they'll get the 2 extra lifeblood from the top left of the arena and if that's not enough they can just ignore them for now and come back later with a stronger nail and better charms.

[@toph3938]

Hive knight is also probably the farthest, but that’s dlc so I can’t be too hard on it.

[@erierierierierie]

@@toph3938 probably, but you likely have dreamgate by then and can place it close to the arena

[@kingofwhitepowder7784]

@@toph3938 Queens garden was probably the worst for me

[@Barondelculo]

I didnt ahve much problem with the mantis lords bench on my first playthrough, i just skipped all the enemies and hit some to get my health back up. i beat them in like 4 tries or sum

[@climbumbiamember8564]

I think that nosk was intentionally designed for you to take more of a reactive approach to it because nosk is the predator trying to hunt you down, not the other way around

[@Bartholemew_the_cringe]

8:20 traitor lord The bench is across like half of the damn queens gardens

[@afrayedsoul8773]

On top of having you risk dying along the way, not because of enemies, but the damn parkour.

[@guillaumerattaire290]

agreed, lost 6000 geo to those GODAMN SPIKES...in particular those at the end of the first spike zone...bonk my head too much time on the tiny platform at the end

[@NUttLEN0LItE]

fr fr

[@epicpro5575]

It's called a dreamgate.

[@Bartholemew_the_cringe]

@@epicpro5575 counterpoint: it’s your first play through and there is no guarantee that you have a dream gate. Matter of fact you may not even know it’s a thing I personally did dream nail AFTER fighting traitor Lord

[@levesteM]

Contact damage is the sole reason I had to stop using Sharp Shadow, despite loving the charm. The smaller bosses would just get staggered and knocked back to where my dash ends, either damaging me or outright killing another radiant attempt. And don't get me started on times when bosses did a jump and fell on me cause it got staggered by a spell. If I have one wish for Silksong, is that contact damage is better handled.

[@Pyrodiac]

Quite frankly contact damage is part of the reason I DO use Sharp Shadow.

[@lukasruston8618]

@@Pyrodiac I find that Sharp Shadow makes you dash too far... it isn't that much of a problem for most areas in the game but when you're fighting the final bosses in the pantheons or just fighting bosses like Radiance on Radiant difficulty, every time I think "People recommend Sharp Shadow for this?"

[@rockyboi1961]

Try Grey Prince Zote with sharp shadow only; I’m sure you’ll love it 😀

[@levesteM]

@@rockyboi1961 You think I haven't? I've lost count how many radiant an pantheon runs that cost me casue he fell where my dash ended.

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

I had that problem back when I tried using sharp shadow for pure vessel. It's kind of what made me stop use this charm at all.

[@ricardoludwig4787]

One genuine design problem that I feel is the worst part of the contact damage is that sometimes you're punished for actually staggering some bosses. There are multiple cases but the most egregious to me are the titular hollow knight, where he often hits you by stumbling over if you're hitting the from the front and even worse was zote, which You're just guaranteed to get hit if you happen to pogo him and he decides to stagger, or when you're pogoing him and he randomly falls over, making your pogo fail. Those 2 made me stop trying to beat the pantheons and were far more frustrating than NKG

[@thecreatura993]

Just use your double jump if pogoing fails lol

[@matheuscabral9618]

dude their stagger a few times for fight, in the worst case you could take 2 damage to these, but it’s definitely not enough to give up doing pantheons, you can just use a better strat on pure vessel and just not pogo zote at all

[@tinycrisp4455]

Just get better? You have enough time to react to Zote falling over, this is coming from a switch player. And I’ve been punished once for staggering and it was a glitch in pure vessel.

[@matheuscabral9618]

@@tinycrisp4455 bro switch doesn’t make it harder

[@CheddahSlammer]

@@matheuscabral9618 Actually some people have shown that on the switch its harder to short jump compared to other platforms. When you press the button it tend to hold longer then it does.

[@__-chira-__]

7:55 you can still somewhat 'label' the markers by colour. For me blue was areas that I didn't/couldn't explore, yellow was something that I missed (like a soul fragment), black was bosses and red was kinda a place holder. Didn't had enough of one colour? Use red. Or at the beginning I mark it as places I couldn't go to

[@alguienqueescribe1761]

Personally I never marked bosses during the game, boss that I found, It was a dead one, trying indefinitely until victory. Mawlek was my second boss because of that, and I honestly don't know if I'm proud of that or I should feel really stupid for putting more effort than necessary into various bosses

[@maple...]

my first time playing i was already spoiled on what all the upgrades were, so i tried to mark them accordingly. the problems came when i started to forget which pin meant what, and i also ran out of pins kinda fast so i used the wrong color, and by the end i just checked every pin whenever i felt like i could go somewhere new. and i STILL missed stuff lol

[@konajohnson6182]

I never really used the markers but I’m glad to see fellow players that have found some use out of them. The game is incredible in every way and I’m glad people are able to take advantage of certain features that I may not have used as much.

[@JoeJoeAdventurer]

@@alguienqueescribe1761 i just got hollow knight a week ago and have been playing the same way. mawlek was also my 2nd boss

[@archazazel1855]

Yeah that what i did just each color/symbol repesent something

[@monmagog]

About the save point and boss thing, in literally any Metroidvania that understand the genre has a save point less than 5 seconds away from the boss arena. I timed getting from the nearest bench to Traitor Lord and it took me 2 minutes to get there. That’s 24 times longer than any other Metroidvania I’ve played

[@Enderjuusto1]

when he said "It wasn't just some difficulty modifer that makes the enemy deal three times the damage for no reason." my mind jumped to grey prince zote

[@ButtersStoch626]

Okay but that's not the base boss, the base boss does 2 damage max, that's just optional challenge for the player

[@Klaptorsk]

So, the boss that is the furthest away from any bench is the hive knight, and considering that he is in the hive, i don't think any of these people have explored that far, so they're just complaining that the bench isn't RIGHT next to the boss smh Edit: the soulmaster is pretty frustrating getting back to so that's maybe the problem Edit 2: yeah, traitor lord is also a long ways away from any bench. Edit 3: (I can't believe, I'm still adding to this comment) It has been some time since I last played Hollow Knight, but I distinctly remember the walk to Hive Knight from the hive bench being really tedious, especially considering all the bees n' shit.

[@Gooberpotomous]

I was so so angry to find in a video that one shortcut between the bench room (where Cornifer had been) and the lift because I'd already beaten most of the game including Soul Tyrant.

[@astrylleaf]

Trader lord?

[@Gooberpotomous]

@@astrylleaf If you haven't gotten the dream gate by that point, definitely

[@lordofcinder8884]

Boss runbacks were never good short or long is still a waste of time , it's big part of the reason why I hated the older dark souls games with their bullshit enemies

[@Killroy007]

@@lordofcinder8884 boss runbacks are part of the challenge tho.

[@nicdasl8497]

3:58 I disagree with this, an attack that is accurately predictable 100% of the time shouldn’t be telegraphed. Nosk always stops in the middle of the room so to doge the goop attack all the player has to do is not be in the center of the room when nosk dashes over the platform. The only issue with the attack not being telegraphed is that it is harder to do the boss first try if you’ve never seen it before, but I think that learning process of failing, learning and trying again is an important part of hollow knights experience.

[@seabass3818]

Yes. The stuff he said about the boss not telegraphing when he will run across the floor didn't really make sense. The telegraph is when stops using any of his attacks. After getting hit a few times, you probably learn that.

[@lsthisgoodenough]

While I agree with that statement, calling Nosk stopping in the middle of the room "accurately predictable 100% of the time" is a bit of a stretch, since he doesn't stop in the same exact spot consistently (and he could also just not stop)

[@pedroivog.s.6870]

We know there is a much more relevant contender for that critique... It's actually really good to stretch your nail so you can have a bit more time to react

[@ReubMann]

i think you mean telegraphed instead of choreographed.

[@sekiganou9576]

wait so am i the only one who found nosk extremely hard (prolly the hardest)?

[@legacymse7095]

Honestly I agree with the "respawn is too far away from the boss" complain. In this game or in ANY Souls like, when you die you just want to try again, I'll never understand why devs don't give us a retry option when we die. Walking back to the boss room isn't fun, isn't challenging, it's just a waste of time. The good thing is that the dream nail portals completely fix this problem, but players shouldn't have to wait until midgame for that

[@mariustan9275]

I agree here. Even though I understand putting benches everywhere would dilute the value of finding benches and it wouldn't make sense, sometimes I just want to retry to fight a boss. If you're a new player and you die to the same boss over and over it's going to feel frustrating because you just keep doing the same thing, over and over when the only thing you want to do is fight a boss.

[@Mokomis_]

I got the dream nail late in game, I went and killed another dream warrior just to be able to use the dream nail portal to be able to teleport right outside the boss room for Traitor Lord from the stag point in Queens Garden. Though part of the issue for me is that my controller seems to be dying on me so I need to fix that, since it keeps injuring me.

[@breadman4710]

​@@Mokomis_ huh im currently playing hk i finished greepath fungal wastes citys storerooms deepnest and i got dreamnail right crystal heart is this supposed to be late game or sum 💀

[@strangevol5264]

@@breadman4710 No, you can do the game in whatever order you like.

[@breadman4710]

@@strangevol5264 oh thx i was worried btw peak game ngl

[@Fork501]

I think it's important to remember that not all gamers can commit to 10-hour days of gaming. It sounds to me like a gamer who plays maybe 4 total hours per week, so they aren't able to put in the kind of time that Hollow Knight requires. If you play it a few hours and walk away for a week, you kind of forget what you were doing and the game doesn't really tell you what to do next.

[@Real-Shadow]

8:25 bees. I refuse to go back there. Ever again. The trek through like 4 rooms of bees just to get to the boss is infuriating. its like the bosses first stage is actually just getting to the boss, except even worse, because in my opinion the boss actually is really easy, so the bosses SECOND stage is getting to the boss, and THEN you get to fight the first stage. Maybe I missed a bench or something but I have trauma of that place I swear.

[@guillaumerattaire290]

i fell the pain of all the people who died to him, one tried him but died more time to the bees than to him...yea i suck fighthing the big bois...and...i found the bench inside the hive AFTER beating the hive..i was coming back from the metro zone hahaha(yea, never tough of ...look to the left after entering...just went forward thinking it was a geo room that i would get later on)

[@souporwormgaming]

Agree with all of this but the map. If you are getting lost, than just swallow your pride and use the compass.

[@DVFHAFYT]

Why would you need to swallow your pride? just use it the entire game.

[@brian0057]

It's one of those cases where hardcore players think that using the mechanics the game provides is considered cheating. Like when Souls players berated those that dared to use spirits in Elden Ring instead of just brute force. The devs put that there for a reason. And I'll use if I want to.

[@kash4307]

@@brian0057 it's not that they consider compass cheating, it's that they have already memorized the map, and they don't need it. After replaying the game a second time I didn't have to look at the map more than 5 times without the compass.

[@codyvandal2860]

I only take off the compass for boss fights

[@xynthia315]

Agreed, I just used compass 24/7 until I completely knew the area.

[@showd6229]

I 100% disagree the map is bad, it shows you rooms you have yet to go into, (apart from the very small exception of the love key room), and the markers give you enough for anything else

[@Kr1egsmesser]

Yeah i love the map, the different colors and markers, also important things look spottable on the map, like black egg temple. I didn't need to use the charm that shows my location on the map because it was good. I think that if you just have a really bad sense of direction, its bad, but that isnt the map being bad.

[@Pyrodiac]

Quite honestly I didn't have to use the markers and I never really did.

[@showd6229]

@@Pyrodiac cool, i wish I was that good

[@Kr1egsmesser]

@@showd6229 its not really about being good because we cant change our sense of direction

[@lpmatthews7387]

@@showd6229 personally, I didn't use the markers because I didn't know where to put them, most of the important locations were either: easy to spot or had symbols around them

[@ricardoludwig4787]

I can see how some of the walks can feel long if you don't know where the shortcuts are, because in a lot of cases it would be a long walk, but if you just explore a little bit you'll find an optional bench or a shortcut. Exception being soul master and arguably dung defender, I remember REALLY hating the trek back on those two, especially soul master since the shortcuts just don't do enough

[@lifegrain6092]

i'd assume these people that misses benches near a boss, or miss a shortcut are ones that rather play a game that handholds the player the game doesn't explicit tell you to explore and get rewarded for exploring, so just rush from boss to boss like it's a speedrun it's probably the same or similar problem with people not liking the backtracking peronally to me, the map wasn't so terrible because at some point the backtracking and exploring made me have my own mental map of the game's map it's just like driving to a certain place daily, like commuting to work. soon enough you'll be able to drive there without looking at the map and this also apply to the enemy attack patterns and general design, first time is confusing but every attempt makes it easier the hardest boss for me was the watcher knights, i was early enough in the game that i was still kind of shit at combat and i didn't have much upgrades took me about 14 tries, i was having trouble with the multiple bosses attacking at the same time and their attacks which can cover a lot of space plus i had to endure for a while as i played it safe (about a nail swing every 7s or so) i did look up about the boss and how i could destroy 1 of them before the fight, but i decided that i'd want the full fight now, watcher knights are pretty easy although it's been a while since i touched the game. i doubt i'll have that much trouble against watcher knights

[@RushWheeler]

The walk back to the only bench in Waterways after losing White Defender is the reason I always equip Sprintmaster

[@motivatedman9730]

Who the fucks die on dung defender lmao

[@belalaloca]

dung defender is pretty far but he’s so easy that it’s not really an issue. I am currently on my first playthrough and I only died a couple times to him

[@janovich.]

i beat soul master and dung defender first try, i had a lot of problems with getting to and beating flukemarm

[@heidtb6746]

Okay, i kinda understand the "Bench too far away from bosses" review. I had some bosses where i had to walk like 10 floors every time, because a nearby bench would unlock after the boss fight. Best example would be Mantis Lords. Other times, the benches were hard to find. But it wasn't all the time, it was like 4-5 boss fights with this issue

[@n7x]

One thing that could help with the issue of boss runbacks is a mechanic similar to the stake of marika from Elden ring. In Elden ring, sites of grace are equivalent to the benches, they are your rest points and respawn points, and are spread throughout the map. However, usually outside of boss arenas, there will be a stake of marika which allows you to respawn just outside the boss area, but doesn’t offer the same utility as the site of grace (resting to heal, using them for fast travel, taking items out of storage etc). Hollow knight could benefit from something similar, a respawn point that doesn’t necessarily give all the benefits of a bench

[@link14.]

Love this game, and appreciate the increased difficulty, especially after beating Ori and the Blind forest. However, I completely disagree about the benches and bosses. I almost quit the game about a 3rd of the way through because I became so frustrated with the amount of time spent backtracking to the bosses. While it certainly isn’t ten minutes, it is often several minutes in length, especially for some bosses like the mantis lords, the traitor lord, and the soul master. Metroidvania bosses, and this is no exception are all about finding patterns, and the best way to find those patterns is to try lots of things over and over again. However, when the game actively prevents this by making you perform several minutes of worthless platforming just to try again, they aren’t raising the difficulty, they are just preventing a good feedback loop.

[@Barondelculo]

i agree with you except for the mantis lords, in that part i just lost one or two hp on the way then just healed myself for the fight and it didnt take more than a minute and a half. however soul master was a pain, especially because of the soul mages or whatever that teleport 5 kilometers away every time you get close to them.

[@kash4307]

The point in backtracking is that you risk losing all your geo getting back. It’s definitely frustrating but it's fair, it’s like the game punishes you for being bad at it, and requires you to get better. It took me 3 tries to beat soul master and it wasn’t even that bad. Plus, most of the bosses don't need you to go back long distances, and the bench is relatively close. Also, by backtracking through the same route, you get better at platforming and become more efficient. Godhome offers that experience you’re talking about, spawning right next to the boss after you fail. Honestly, for new players, it's just a skill issue.

[@NoMustang273]

​​@@kash4307 mean the reason why the mechanic of losing geo exists is to add some weight to dying. If you're running around with a lot of money, you're risking losing it. But bosses are supposed to be bigger challenges that you learn to get better at. Punishing the player for that seems pointless to me, they're already a gateway to progression, it just adds frustration when you can't get to the thing that killed you in the first place. It's also annoying if your shade spawns in the boss room which usually doesn't happen but it happens for some bosses I'm pretty sure.

[@infinity_gamer.1385]

@@NoMustang273 skill issue if i do say so myself, do as hornet says and git gud

[@NoMustang273]

@@infinity_gamer.1385 You can devolve any issue with difficulty to "git gud". It's subjective ultimately. It's like one of two gripes I have with an otherwise almost perfect game.

[@0xDiegoR]

As a hardcore fan of the metroidvania genre, I've been devouring this game for the past 2 weeks and absolutely love it. I ONLY have TWO gripes with the game: 1) When people complain about excessive backtracking (and that only really matters when going for 100~112% IMO) I can ABSOLUTELY see their point. That happens because in Hollow Knight you don't have ANY way at all to go FAST (and I mean really fast). In SOTN you have: wolf, bat, gravity boots, jump kicks... In Metroid titles you have: speed booster, shining spark (and the games are WAAAY shorter than Hollow Knight) In Bloodstained you have: good teleports and the accelerator Etc Now in Hollow Knight we have what...? The Super Dash/Crystal Heart? That's more like a tool to get you from point A to point B in specific areas/situations. You can't just use it all the time because the maps are usually either not that open or full of platforms (or both - unless you're a speedrunner and knows all the optimal points to super dash from). And it's very limited: it only kills really MINOR enemies and stops on contact. It's a not a tool made for maneuverability. And the dreamgate is not that great, too. They should have designed it better, I think. And because of that stag stations do feel spaced out from one another. There should be anywhere between 30 to 50% more stag stations to balance that out OR better movement options, since the game has so much extra content. But given different/better movement options would change the game DRASTICALLY, more stag stations and/or a better dreamgate system would be a simple fix IMO. 2) The other gripe is the fact that geo spreads around like crazy and there isn't any good reason for that. I'd say 1/3 of your geo gets lost in a casual playthrough. I realize there's a charm that tries to remediate that, but imagine having to sacrifice a notch just for that. To think that was a game design decision baffles me, tbh. Although VERY annoying, it doesn't affect the overall experience that much. Now, the lack of movement options/stag stations really bothers me. Having said all that, it doesn't make Hollow Knight worth of a negative review by any means. It is still amazing in every other aspect and is in my top 3 metroidvania games.

[@HumanoidDerpling]

I think the best solution for the backtracking thing is just to add a few more benches in important spots. Waterways, Wastes, Hive, Gardens and Deepnest could all use a couple more benches spaced out. There's a bench right next to Mantis Lords, one of a newbie's main roadblocks, but you only get it AFTER the boss. That could shoo off new players from an amazing game (number 2 of all time imo), and is easily fixable too. I think the Stag Stations and Tram are fine, apart from it maybe being good to add one in Waterways and Fungal proper. They're mostly where you need them to be.

[@DesensitizedMuffin]

@@thuong3818c Dreamgate isn't good cause you can go through the whole game not knowing it exist. What happened to me at least.

[@mariustan9275]

​@@HumanoidDerplingMaybe for bosses specifically they could let players spawn right outside the boss room

[@guillaumerattaire290]

ummm....dont realy agree but i see your point, superdash is , to be honest, not usefull most of the time, would have been fun to use it as charge attack like the nail arts and do majors damage, but, can be usefull to backtrack in straight line...and that happend not to much but still usefull! stag station could be a bit better placed yea, but give extra challenge , would have liked to have one on the right side of the map next to the hive or the arena...but nope~ sad but lore accurate, the white king wouldnt want people go next to his rotting corpse haha other than that...i dont know where i would want another stag station? maybe one in the mines? the charm is there just as a little bonus if you want, you could ignore it and let it spread...or take it and get more money, it's usefull, not the best but usefull, it's a choice for the player to either have confort or do it manualy and waste a little time to grab the money...or to be sad to see 90% of their geo cache to fall inside SPIKES...yea..that's the only reason im taking this around with me, i refuse to see my money be gone...im macscrooge and yea, hollow knight is fun, still trying to kill king of nightmare right now but pretty fun, hope to kill the hollow knight after him and do the thing of champion i heard of...also path of pain before doing hollow knight..im gonna have fun haha-....

[@Sourcy]

I highly agree with the backtracking, when you have hard boss fights that require you to understand their attacks, having to go through several rooms and obstacles JUST to find it is inherently annoying. Why not just have ''ghost benches'' that will only spawn right next to the boss and will then disappear once the boss is dead? That'd make things much easier for players.

[@extremis5002]

I find Hollow Knight to be stupidly fun, and also tough. Although, once you learn a bosses patterns, it's much easier, because of practice. Hollow Knight gets easier as you learn the game, something most gamers don't seem to do, like, at all. I struggled with the Mantis Lords for quite a while, but only until I decided to step back from the "gotta kill this boss no matter what" mindset to: "well, if I actually pay attention to the attack patterns, I can easily dodge most attacks, and even heal myself during one!" I love Hollow Knight, its art style, its gameplay and that difficulty that relies on players learning the game.

[@diffdimgamerseven9986]

yep, the good ol' classic trial and error technique. it works every time (well, except when one's too stubborn to learn)

[@goldcat2002]

your point is invalid because of how many people love dark souls lmao people DO learn the games they play, i think you're just generalizing these reviews as a stand in for the gaming community as a whole

[@topsyturvy1097]

I made cloth kill him for me

[@extremis5002]

@@goldcat2002 I completely understand your point. However I did specify that it’s only the majority of people who don’t bother to learn the games they play. Dark Souls is a great example, as you can only succeed by learning. Thanks for your feedback!

[@Vivek10010]

My experience was the opposite. The combat was extremely bland and the game was too easy. Maybe Im just spoiled by dozens of way better Metroidvania games.

[@lorenzobonomi9487]

I absolutely LOVED hollow knight's maps. The fact that it's so easy to get lost is a plus to me

[@theend-nz6vs]

Yeah wayward compass is really good charm

[@solar901]

Getting lost in this kind of games is part of the fun.

[@mollysandera991]

I actually didn't get lost at all while i played hollow knight..... Probably because i would try to find a map like crazy. But i would never use the compass. And i never will since i already went through everywhere without it. But i did like explore literally everywhere

[@landonmartin6749]

I like the simple map. Helps me remember where I am. and it helps me find places I haven't explored.

[@-MidnightOwl-]

The bench complaint makes sense! I HATED backtracking to (for example) Markoth, Mantis Lords, and Soul Master. One of my favorite bosses was Broken Vessel, as there was a shortcut you could use to just go from the bench to the boss AFTER you dealt with all the enemies for the first time. Another example would be Hornet, with the bench being very close to both the arena and 2 shortcuts to unlock.

[@linny._.]

I appreciate seeing an ACTUAL review of the game, with both positive and negative sides. When I was looking up honest reviews I found so much glazing and a suspicious amount of praise. I don't doubt the game is good and well thought out. Though I would like to see both good and bad, as no game is perfect. I haven't played hollow knight, and want to see if I would actually enjoy it. And this has helped a ton, thank you!

[@brbtexting6595]

"I cannot think of a single boss fight in the game where there isn't a bench relatively close" Hiveknight. Not because the bench is SUPER far away, but because the enemies in between you and the boss are more difficult to avoid than the boss itself.

[@Prosto-Ban]

I’m a one of the people who just got lost and stopped playing. I remember beating some bosses and then just getting completely lost and searching where to go for like 4 hours. I have beaten Elden Ring,metroid and I’m really good at going back for some goodies in games. I think the problem is in the map and there is not enough story that hints you how to progress. In Elden Ring you can understand what is your next boss even from items description but in hollow knight you kinda don’t get any story at all until you progress to mid-late game

[@maple...]

i'm kinda confused when people say they dont know where to go. the map tells you when theres somewhere you haven't gone, so why not try to reach that area? and if you can't figure it out, try a different unexplored area. the only reason i can think of is that people didn't notice it. can you give some insight?

[@Prosto-Ban]

@@maple... the problem is that i checked alot of places but maybe i missed the one i needed the most.Because i couldnt see it on the map i just got lost.And also the game kinda didnt told me that i need to find a new location so i was searching everything.I was thinking "fuck i think i didnt find the item i need somewhere on the map". Also playing it on the small switch screen made it a lil bit harder

[@maple...]

@@Prosto-Ban ohhh, small switch screen would not help i think. and for a metroidvania, the game is pretty linear until you get to the city of tears, so that makes sense

[@jyutzler]

@@maple... I bought the lantern so I could check out Crystal and a) that screwed up the intended game sequencing b) I completely missed the platform where you have to go up after going right (that wasn't indicated on the map). I thought I needed an item I couldn't find to traverse that area when really I needed the Crystal Heart from there to traverse the rest of the map. Sure I'm a dumbass for missing it, but when you've unlocked 2/3s of a gigantic map and have no idea where that needle in the haystack is (nowhere near a boss), then what? I eventually looked it up, but not before wasting a ton of time.

[@bmx9757]

The one area that i think the bench complaint is valid is in soul sanctum. With how piss annoying the enemies there are,and the like 5 rooms of hell you have to walk through to get there,it was very frustrating on my first play through trying to get back to soul master.

[@chucklesdeclown8819]

i AGREE the teleporting enemies are so dang annoying..

[@mariustan9275]

When I just started thise teleporting enemies were the worst. Then i got to the traitor lord

[@c0smosus]

another point to contact damage, mantis lords shrink the arena with spikes, fine whatever BUT they can then spawn in on either side to sweep the ground. the sweep is telegraphed but on my first playthrough i died a few times to the mantis lords just sorta spawning in on the left and right side untelegraphed.

[@stevencampbell348]

The sweeping of the ground attack is what they try to get you to realize means you should stay around the center and not the edges because not only will that mean you’re not at risk of getting hit into the spike pits, you’re also always given time to react to each attack. So imo it’s not really bad at all and pretty well designed for you to think about between deaths.

[@vaspeter2600]

The idea behind it (if I'm to guess) is to make the player identify hazardous areas. Just like Nosk's dead stop, the sweep attack of the Mantis Lords happens not only always in the same way (well, same two ways) but on the same locations as well. Nosk can only stop in the center of the arena; the Lords can only spawn next to the edges of the platform. Because of this, the game expects that the player doesn't *need* having these things telegraphed: if you learn which spots within the arena are hazardous, you can keep yourself from getting hit by no-telegraph attacks by not entering the danger zone in the first place. Markoth is admittedly a bastard in this regard as well. In his case, stopping dead in his tracks can be anticipated based on the timing, not his location.

[@sileudies]

one complaint i have about the map is that early on, it does a good job of showing you where there is more, but you can't explore it yet. But later, there tend to be many single rooms behind practically invisible breakable walls that hide something extremely important behind them. For example, the White Defender is absolutely impossible to work out on your own without a wiki, and the junk pit has a moderately visible breakable wall but it isn't at all obvious. especially since later, it's tedious to just explore the entire map and look for breakable walls you missed earlier. if there was slight indication on the map, like a slightly chipped wall on the map or a dark fog where a room is but it's unexplored; something like that

[@Morlo_01]

3:58 I think the point of Nosk is to be a "playstile tutorial boss" He teaches you patience, while bosses like soul tyrant teach you reaction time and others teach you how to think on your feet. Nosk's constant stopping is meant to help you learn for actually difficult bosses

[@epiqur6574]

I don't know where I've found you, but your channel is an underrated gem IMO. You've earned yourself a sub! 😁

[@robertw6894]

there are a few areas where the walk from the bench is a bit excessive, the main ones I can think are the Traitor Lord, soul sanctum bosses, and the bee guy,

[@danilobatricevic4651]

Your videos are the best free entertainment I've had in a while, much appreciated, bless you.

[@Belarovis]

My only problem is that for example when you die in the soul master fight you have to walk through the intire soul sanctum again because the nearest benxh is still a bit away.

[@mrblakeboy1420]

while you were talking about how boss fights aren’t far from benches, you showed footage of the path to traitor lord

[@slycooper2bandofthieves116]

The map is so good. It actually respects my intelligence. It’s one my favorite things about hollow knight.

[@jmiod2819]

Agreed, the map isn't dogshit u can literally see areas that cut off abruptly on it

[@brunopagnoncelli975]

FR the map is amazing, why are people complaining about things that aren't a problem 😭😭😭

[@tiacool7978]

Because using their brain is hard, or they're afraid of taking risks. Hearing the map maker, and getting to him are two separate things. And there's a good chance a new player will die on the way to him.

[@brunopagnoncelli975]

@@tiacool7978 I'm betting on the first option, people don't use their brains, on my first playthrough the map was like a blessing and conifer's like humming was the chanting for it, without those maps I would have been so lost

[@TheAlpacalypseIsUponUs]

I'm trash at maps and directions and with the compass didn't really have problems with the map

[@ThatOneComrade]

10:18 ''It wasn't just some difficulty modifier that makes the enemy do 3x the damage'' *cough* Grey Prince Zote *cough*

[@primalaspid2972]

Hollow knight isn’t a perfect game and it does have flaws, but I have never seen a negative review that actually pointed any of these out before

[@matheuscabral9618]

you are it’s biggest flaw

[@primalaspid2972]

@@matheuscabral9618 Thanks

[@Weedocto]

Fun fact! Every single problem in this video can be solved with scarab, which is a very simple and easy to use modding tool. Benchwarp, bench deploy, better map, health bars, no more contact damage. All can be fixed with like, 20 or smt clicks

[@betapi1726]

I completely hear what you're trying to say with the map, though I worry most people will misunderstand. Keeping the map low in detail and forcing you to uncover it is important, but it would be better if it was something like a Metroid map; in Metroid games, doors or blockades you encounter get a little icon associated with them on the map when you find them, so you can go find them later once you figure out how to open them. That's what's being suggested in this video; not a better map per se, just a map that includes a better icon or marker system.

[@Whatthesac]

I think boss battles are so fun in this game because the controls are very rigid. What I mean by that is your character will do exactly what you want him to do. If you are going right and you suddenly want to go left, the knight will immediately go left without sliding on two or three meters like in mario games.

[@playversetv3877]

but theres nothing wrong with the sliding thing, you just need to adjust thats all

[@bofa722]

​@@playversetv3877except in some games it is extremely annoying and feels more like you're fighting the controls instead of the enemies

[@playversetv3877]

@@bofa722 but das de whole point, its part of the game. but if its making it to the point where it feels unplayable, then yeh it can kind of ruin the game

[@Gmoo0604]

I agree with a couple points here. Contact damage is extremely frustrating, I wish it was enemy specific (ie: if they have spikes they hurt you if you touch them or an enemy is doing a charge/dash attack). Although not a frequent issue there was a couple bosses throughout the game where I couldn’t be bothered traveling back to the boss and called it quits for the night. When I die and have learned the bosses new patterns the last thing I want to do is refight old enemies on the slog back (yes I know it’s a metroidvania). The last one is we paid too little, indie devs if you make an incredible game at least make me pay $20. Hollow knight, Gungeon, and stardew are an absolute bargain even at full price

[@goldcat2002]

contact damage in this game made mark of pride a must have for me lol blasphemous (another metroidvania) had contact damage on regular enemies, but not bosses, which i actually think is much more fair

[@tdw745]

My only gripe with this game was the same one you had with Noel but with many o other bosses such as Broken Vessel and Hornet Sentinel, both of these bosses jump around a very large amount just for getting around the map but colliding with them hurts you and since it isn’t technically an attack it’s not telegraphed and hurts you more times then not

[@angel_dust_the_prostitute4816]

1:16 ah you fell for the murder hobo review, the guy who basically said "Kill everything" instead of talking to the NPC's that were a major help.

[@catlovingtrio]

"Reading Hollow Knight negative reviews so you don't have to." Jokes on you, this video inspired me to read and share my thoughts on bad reviews of games I love, starting with Hollow Knight. As of writing this, I've recorded my reaction to enough negative reviews, but I am still in the process of editing the video.

[@Gooberpotomous]

Wait, isn't Nosk's explosion of infection at the end of the move set? Sprint across the room, sprint back to center, infection explosion? My sense of direction and memory in general aren't the greatest, but I love how the game demands the player remember where they haven't gone: most areas are visually distinct enough to stand out. I was going to say both benches near Mantis Lords are kind of far, but they're just a little tough to get through the area. Someone said the bench closest to Soul Master is pretty far, which it is--until you find the stupid shortcut after you've already beaten him. And then there's Traitor Lord, but by then you should have Dream Gate so it's not too terrible. The base game is challenging, but absolutely beatable for a casual player like me. My first playthrough is at 107% with Grimm Troupe banishment. NKG, colo 3, the Pantheons, and Radiance have all proven very difficult, but my inability to instantly beat these things is not the fault of the game. Hornet told me how to do it, I need to practice more

[@AverageHollowKnightPlayer]

im with u. im at 108% rn

[@jyutzler]

How do you practice? There's no good way to do so.

[@dorzy7372]

another thing about contact damage, why does dream warriors have it?

[@VixYW]

Never played it, but I must say that it's usually courtesy of the developer/map designer to have a checkpoint right next to the boss. Otherwise you might risk the player dying multiple times in the path to the boss regardless of how far it is just to retry the boss fight, and that gets in the way of learning how to fight the boss.

[@ellagage1256]

Most Dark Souls games have even started doing this and I have to admit it's a nice change, and this is coming from someone who doesn't mind most of the boss runs in DS1

[@Life-pq6lz]

@@machinegirl03 Y'know,those path are easy,but fucking long. I beated bosses in 2~3 attempts amd didn't had this kind of difficulties in bosses themselves or backtracking. But hearing for someone took a 30 attempts i was like "Yo... That means he backtracked route to the boss over and OVER again" And i can't blame this guy hating this game when he got to soul master and traitor after beating the game. (He said,he didn't liked this game) Game just feels slow,i sometimes wandered in hours to find something,get everywhere untill i finded main items. Its not that bad,but it has a bitter taste....

[@slycooper2bandofthieves116]

They wanted people to give up on bosses and come back later when they were stronger. Having the checkpoint far away incentivizes exploration.

[@JohnSmith-kt3yy]

@@ellagage1256 You are mental bro. The rng insta death boss that is bed of chaos and its 7 minute run back almost broke me first time I played the game. Respect

[@JohnSmith-kt3yy]

@@slycooper2bandofthieves116 Cope. Having the checkpoint far away is insulting to the players time. I dont have all day to sit around playing video games, so it would be nice if I didnt have to spend an hour just walking back to the arena if I die a lot.

[@beanman9760]

I feel like when silksong releases the internet is going to explode

[@sugoistalin7809]

People who make negative review to make memes or negative reviews to tell you to buy the game need to stop.

[@strongmaestro9882]

The only problem I have with hollow knight is that it wasn't as difficult as the community makes it seem, at least for me.

[@exquisicy5429]

fr i was expecting to take like 100 hours to beat the game but i beat it in like 30 on my first playthrough

[@shopen6]

@@exquisicy5429 ok but did you fight every boss in the game

[@shopen6]

idk pure vessel was pretty hard in pantheon 4

[@shopen6]

same nkg

[@exquisicy5429]

@@shopen6 40 hours and i got 112%

[@AfraidWinter11]

9:52 "the bossfights are hard but also fair" one word markoth

[@makaiwise4609]

The actual complaint for me is going in blind. I played blind my first playthrough, and it would take me hours just to figure out where I’m supposed to go. For the reviews where they say you don’t get stronger, guarantee they’re playing blind, and it really is hard to find upgrades if you don’t already know where they ate

[@destroything]

They ate

[@chucklesdeclown8819]

yes tbf im playing blind and i havent found the i-frame dodge yet or the superdash, i think i know what areas they are in but because of the unilinear travel and the fact im always debating "which boss/which area to go to first" i still am missing some thing i think would of been way useful if i was able to find them earlier

[@AverageHollowKnightPlayer]

@@chucklesdeclown8819 im playing blind and i just randomly explored until i found the thing i needed

[@daikatarokamegawa542]

My main gripe are exactly those two. A stupid amount of backtracking, with a HEAVY focus on platforming, without the tools needed to do so. You only get the core tools of platforming (double jump, controlled fall, wall sliding etc.) pretty late into the game. And if you're expected to die several times to a boss before you learn the pattern, then you shouldn't also be expected to fight two dozen small fry enemies each time.

[@NickMaovich]

8:12 well Mantis lords fight early in the game has the closest bench in lower right of Fungal Wastes. After successfuly beating them at 10th try I have installed BenchWrap and never looked back. Absolute must of a mod for someone who does not want to spend 5 minutes dashing for few minutes fight\

[@skarma9673]

Loved the review saying "The game is too good for how much it costs" 🤣

[@nicholasmyslinski2383]

I slightly agree with players that backtracking is annoying, (the enemies aren’t) especially When you stay in a loop of getting far then dying, I’m pretty persistent and had whole hour long loops where I would keep on dying with minimal progress. Also am I underprepared? I have one extra soul container, one extra mask, coiled nail and few charms (less than a quarter). I am at the point where I would fight the second hornet so I can get the kings seal. Sorry for the paragraph.

[@Jayden89117]

9:29 this guy has a point, specifically in soup sanctum it is torture to go through like 15 separate mini bosses every time I die to the main boss.

[@Jayden89117]

Soup sanctum lol I meant soul

[@sleepupgamer6318]

Bro, a good combo for the soup sanctum is the spoon nail upgrade and the bowl shield charm to capture the soup the shoot at you. it was really easy for me after that.

[@ManioqV]

​@@sleepupgamer6318use the f o r k

[@tricksy33]

My one gripe that might tag on to the 10 minute backtrack thing - I love a challenge, I don't have an excessive amount of free time. I want to try fighting the hardest boss I don't have the time to waste half an hour grinding through the Pantheon of Hollownest just for one attempt. Thus, I am locked out of even trying. And I am saddened by that.

[@Speederbear-ws7ut]

The walk to some bosses may be long but it also helps you know the route to the boss. I know the route to soul master perfectly so every steel soul run is easy for me. The back tracking teaches better than one try of a section

[@MaxHaydenChiz]

The one defining thing that I use to decide if someone will dislike Hollow Knight is how they respond to being lost. The game is "about" being lost and then finding you way and the map is laid out to get you turned around and create that "I'm really lost" sensation. If this is something that is going to make someone uncomfortable or upset, they are going to hate the game. As for the other complaints people had: In older patches, there wasn't a stag in the basin and you didn't have dream gate. Any review written before then might have a better complaint about too much walking. The bench for fighting the mantis lords is deliberately far away to discourage repeated challenges or grinding. You are supposed to come back when you are stronger and confident. The walk back to hive knight is also pretty bad because he wasn't originally there. But people really wanted them to add a boss to that area. So he got added, but if you don't drop a dream gate and then die, it's a long walk.

[@jyutzler]

I don't even know what a dream gate is, yet I've experienced the hive knight. So he's a pointless add-on? Somehow you're supposed to simultaneously enjoy getting lost and go to places out of the intended order in as excruciating a way as possible.

[@MaxHaydenChiz]

@@jyutzler I wouldn't say he's pointless. I would say that frustration is a good metric for deciding that another location might be more fruitful for now. You can always come back later.

[@jyutzler]

@@MaxHaydenChiz There are only so many places to go. I gave up because I couldn't come close to defeating Hornet II and she protects an item you need to progress. I've cleaned out almost everything else. Anything that is left either requires items I can't get to and/or is too excruciating to retry.

[@thelastlaughter6454]

8:12 *hive knight left the chat*

[@FrigidOven]

I think Hollow Knight and many other games aesthetics draw in a crowd of people who are just looking for cute little fun games to play in their down time. They don’t go in expecting Dark Souls level difficulty as they would usually avoid that kind of thing but the aesthetics blinded them to the genre title of Souls-Like. Basically Hollow Knight casted a wide net and captured some fish who didn’t want to be caught.

[@ohexenwahno5652]

And even for those who like metroidvanias, this difficulty can be jarring, since those games aren't typically very hard, but focus more on exploration. Metroid Dread had fairly difficult bosses, but it also acknowledged that not everyone likes the challenge, so it has a casual mode.

[@Vivek10010]

@@ohexenwahno5652 Hollow Knight is very easy compared to most Metroidvanias though. Only maybe P5 maybe hard and only because its tedious and boring.

[@alyssabullock6421]

Tbh, the thing about Nosk, that I realized pretty quickly when I first played, is that he's not built to be chased. He chases YOU. He's constantly going back and forth through the location, and you gotta use blind spots to get hits on him and wait for him to pass you by. And then you just dodge his spit attacks until he's done. Basically, you can use the corners against the center platform to hide in when he's running side to side, and spitting acids, but then when he reverses to go the other way, you jump and slash down on him and wait for him to come back. It's a repeated cycle that's pretty simple to figure out honestly.

[@nafereuskortex9055]

8:06 Jedi FO and Survivor did this well in that they showed you what you have the abilities to access, if they have been accessed and where they are.

[@joshuapatrick682]

The only bench that could be considered “far away” from a boss IMO is the Queens Garden one for the Traitor Lord, you know, in the 2nd to last section of the game….

[@ApolloArcher1]

Interesting that you went to Queens Gardens as the second to last area, I myself went there pretty early as there is very few regions that are locked up, in fact the gardens are right after greenpath which is the second area you unlock so I’m now really confused why you say it’s the second to last area…

[@contessa420]

@@ApolloArcher1 isn’t there a shade gate preventing entry to queen’s gardens?

[@sweettoy3824]

@@ApolloArcher1 Not as unrealistic as you might think. I recently played the game and my order of discovery was the following: Dirtmouth -> Crossroads -> Greenpath -> Fungal Wastes/Fog Canyon -> Mantis Village -> Deepnest -> City of Tears -> Cliffs -> Resting Grounds -> Soul Sanctum -> Crystal Peak -> Basin -> Hive -> Waterways -> Kingdom's Edge -> White Palace -> Queen's Gardens -> Abyss tl;dr The Gardens are unreachable until you get the acid-swimming ability, which is found in the waterways, which can be explored quite late.

[@trots4940]

But you are totally able to get the Dream Gate before exploring the queen's garden. So you can place a mark right below the battle arena. That's what I did in my first playthrough

[@cawareyoudoin7379]

@@trots4940 If you know that the Dreamgate exists, you can get it, sure. If you don't, you just throw yourself at the fight until you win, like me lol

[@shopen6]

I love this game but so many people just get frustrated cuz they don't learn from each death and think that the game is too hard but really they just didn't understand how to beat the boss they are stuck on

[@MockiN6j4y]

When I died to a boss it was almost always for the same reason; I was being lazy and trying to cut corners 😅

[@shopen6]

@@MockiN6j4y yea but when you cut corners and he kills you beacuse of that then you learn how to cut corners the way he doesn't kill you

[@maziksizik5601]

by the time i reach soul master i literally forget everything from my previous fight with him because i had to walk so much. learning stuff this way is not ineffective... like yeah, i will get that sweet muscle memory to beat him. after 2 days of trying 🙂

[@shopen6]

@@maziksizik5601it's not that hard to learn attack patterns. First you should just understand what the telegraph stands for the attack he is gonna do

[@shopen6]

@@maziksizik5601 also backtracking to soul master takes like 1 min its not that long

[@cursedtosufferGRIMM]

I can understand the guy at 5:40 because major news and game review sites often say that hk and celeste are similar games and with this statement fooling a lot of fans of these games.

[@ahmadabughazaleh0]

Thats true the game is truely awesome but lets be clear with this one 8:20 , there are some bosses where their place is sucks like Soul master you have to go half the area just to meet him but he is easy enough to not die more than twenty times in first time , Hive champion was very frustrating every time you have to dodge nearby all the bees to face him and he has a unique mechanic so you have to die some times until you understand his tactics and even if we say about shortcuts its just 1/3 Hive skipped and its secret anyway .

[@Candle_eater7685]

the one place where the bench is far away from the boss is soul sanctum, I remember the suffering of going through the entirety of soul sanctum every time I wanted to fight the boss, its annoying

[@da8bitnarwhale404]

I actually really enjoyed the map. I thought it felt more engaging to look around an compare the area you’re in to what’s on the map.

[@its_classy]

To be fair to the the getting back to the boss review, there are some cases, but like, three. Soulmaster, Hive knight and Mantis traitor are the three I remember having to do, it was indeed very annoying when I was first into the game, but I think these few instances aren't worthy of leaving a negative review, you should only leave a negative review realistically if the negatives properly out way the positives of a game and visversa. EDIT: I see some also claim the mantis lords, however there is a bench that isn't that far away, some new players may of not found it before fighting them but the thing with that is that choice, you can choose when to, your not forced into the fight, it'd be very easy for a player to go "hold on wait a minute" before engaging in a fight and adventuring a little more to find the bench when they know if they don't they'll be sent far far away.

[@andrevaca6700]

If you chase nosk trying to hit him, you’ll likely run into him. Theres no Telegraph because that’s the point. You learn from that and play it safe so you can time your attacks. The difficult thing with Markoth is the combination of no floor and random nails that can appear offscreen so you don’t realize you’re jumping in a wrong direction until too late. Not to mention that chasing him around makes it that much harder. Typically,I go into that boss fight in P5 with enough soul so I can fill my meter up by his 2nd phase and just end him with vengeful spirit attacks.

[@ayegaming14]

The only boss that I remember being relatively far away from the closest bench was hive knight

[@dragonic22]

Soul Master?

[@felixvadcard4208]

I played the game during the past few weeks. I really don't understand why people say this game is hard. I found it quite easy. Especially if you stick to the main story until true ending when you start to feel the difficulty on some bosses and radiance.

[@personexisting123]

Most of the difficulty comes from DLC content

[@dymondgames2884]

The one part of a review I agree with a bit would be not having any indications on what to do next. When you first start the game or even on your first play through it can be a pain to find anything at all. Once you learn the map sure, it was easier to finally progress in a fun manageable way, but not everyone wants to play it more than once or continue a game where they went hours with no progress. Im glad I found out how the game has you progress because I love it now and like finding my way to something I had no clue about, but I did almost stop playing completely at first since I had to search every random nook and cranny to get to the next area. Again, now that I found how to progress easier I love the game and it is definitely in my top 10, but an example of almost quitting was in my first run through. I didn't find green path for a while since I had went basically every other direction first (bad luck maybe) and didn't know about the compass and mapping. Another time was the city of tears since I couldn't find map boi or a way there and back so i just went in circles for hours.

[@annielight363]

elderbug (the bug in dirtmouth) does give directions in early game!

[@Barondelculo]

I remember i played it for a little bit, got lost on the crossroads, then didnt play it for like a year, then i saw it again, gave it a second try, and now its my favourite game

[@The_Red_Scare]

Actually, Elderbug in Dirtmouth will tell you about different places in the game as you progress if you talk to him. If he suddenly has new dialogue when you talk to him, it's either because of an event or because the game is hinting you on where to go next.

[@jyutzler]

@@annielight363 Except when he doesn't.

[@AnotherCrucibleKnightFight]

I think some of the negative reviews are pretty goofy but I don't think it is fair to criticize someone purely for not liking an aspect of the game. Im not the biggest fan of backtracking, and sometimes the combat is frustrating, but it wouldn't be fair to then say "you are wrong about how you feel". I think some of the criticisms given aren't very agreeable but its one thing to disagree with an opinion and another to say an opinion is invalid simply because you don't see it that way.

[@alexrussell3907]

I want to love this game so much, and I do for the most part. For me the worst thing is just having no clue where you are supposed to be going. I love the boss fights, and wish I didn't have to like walk around aimlessly for 4 hours before maybe finding one. Oh I found a new ability, guess I will go back to EVERY area and see if this new ability does anything.

[@werter4569]

I really appreciated the music you put in this video. I only heard and recognized both Risk of Rain games, Hollow Knight itself and Rain World, but still, Thank You!

[@faberion2258]

Using “100500” number as equivalent of “very much” is a popular Russian meme 0:58

[@ReubMann]

I think I disagree with you in your assertion at 5:55. The range of movement is the foundation for exploration and combat. you literally have to master the jumping in some capacity in order to fully utilize the knights combats ability.

[@htwo1]

Well sure, but that doesn't make the game a platformer. The level of expertise you need in the movement is much, much higher in a game like Celeste. Because in Celeste, the movement IS the game. In Hollow Knight movement is of course important, but it's not the only thing you need to master, and the game doesn't treat it as such

[@AverageHollowKnightPlayer]

@@htwo1 pogo.....

[@Jollymongoose]

1:35 hey thats my friends review LMAO

[@TheOneGuy1111]

One thing to note about the whole difficulty spike complaint is playstyle. I actually did experience a difficulty spike near the end, because I played the game like a tank. I would take a lot of hits, but heal a lot. So when I hit late game stuff where bosses started dealing two damage per hit and don't give you much opportunity to heal, that was a huge difficulty spike for me. Now you can say I played the game wrong and wasn't supposed to do things how I did, but the thing is, the game let's you play that way, and it's pretty effective... up until it isn't. So yes, there actually can be a difficulty spike depending on how you play the game. (There's also the platforming difficulty spike that is the White Palace.)

[@AverageHollowKnightPlayer]

i agree. quick heal+spore shroom is just too good tho

[@themechanic6117]

I'm about 23 hours into Hollow knight and I'm finally throwing in the towel . I gave it honest shot and I'm just tired of the long back tracking / difficult bosses / not enough benches that were also located too far from bosses and the platforming just isn't great . I just finished prince of persia the lost crown and that game had me hooked from start to finish . After finishing the lost crown I was itching for another metroidvania game so I picked up hollow knight and these two games couldn't be more different. The lost crown just has tighter controls / great platforming / plenty of save spot and just enough fast travel locations / every boss took a few tries but nothing seemed frustrating / to top it off the idea to add screen shots to the map is a game changer! it greatly helps to quickly identify why you left a marker on the map, such a great idea ! clearly hollow knight isn't for me but at least I gave it a honest shot instead of stopping 2 hours in like i wanted to.

[@Ikerextrafn]

9:47 i would say that the traitor lord and maybe the soul master do actualkly take a bit

[@tupcios]

0:13 these type of reviews annoy me sm. The game would have like 99% positive reviews if not that