Imprisoning Mary, Queen of Scots: James VI's Response

[@joyoung2483]

🪓👑It must have been an odd situation for James. He never knew his father, was parted from his mother when an infant, and who knows what stories he must have been told about them. I'm sure he must have hoped for a day when he could reconnect with his mother, but its hard to know what kind of love he felt for her, if any. My guess is he wrote to Elizabeth out of a sense of duty towards Mary but he was resigned to whatever the outcome might be. He had to play the very long game with regard to his future as Elizabeth's most logical heir and the kingdom he would inherit. What a tragic childhood.

[@arcola44]

I agree he wrote to Elizabeth only out of a sense of duty!

[@SafetySpooon]

Hopefully, he was allowed to become attached to his nurse (whoever she may have been).

[@Funnybriton]

Also his grandfather and great-grandfather James V and James IV had died fighting England in a war. He had no interest in following their example

[@paulaw3264]

All very good points.

[@eleanorlavish1519]

The interesting thing about all three of these monarchs - Mary, Elizabeth, and James - is that they each had grand ambitions and a whole host of vipers at their backs every step of the way. I think it possible that James' thoughts about his mother changed over his life. As a kid, you believe what you're told, and you do your best to keep those around you happy so perhaps to child James, Mary was a traitor and a murderer. By the time he gets to the end of his life, having survived numerous threats of his own, and seeing her sad end, I wouldn't be surprised if the monument to his mother reflected a change in his understanding. She was the mother, wife, and granddaughter of kings and James in his 50s would understand well everything that truly meant.

[@AngeliqueDaemon]

I agree, after his own lived experience within the viper's nest, James would have grown to have a better understanding of Mary's position and why and how things fell out the way that had. Of course, that being said, I am a HORRIBLE cynic, and regardless of whether or not that understanding existed, I am 1000% sure that Mary's monument would have only had the most GLOWING praise put on it, because James was further justifying and cementing his OWN legitimacy. Most of the inscription was about establishing Mary's qualifications and right to be a monarch of England and Scotland through bloodline, and thereby making James even more beyond a doubt the true and rightful holder of those two thrones as well.

[@hiwakoo]

I would say probably both. What trauma his childhood left for his adult life, we can only asume. What does it to a person to be toll, you are goodsent and in the same time, they are after you don't trust anyone, we can only speculate. But what happend ie to those acused of whichcraft, we know. Might this extreme acts of religious justice be an outcome of his trauma? 👸🏻 🚼👑🏆⛓💰

[@bbybella9937]

Why would it reflect a change of his understanding. She was long dead by that point and no longer a threat to him. His true colors showed when she was alive and that was that.

[@nathanielziering]

I would be fascinated to see an episode of Reading the Past on Prince Henry Frederick, the Prince of Wales and heir apparent of James I. The Prince of Wales untimely death indirectly lead to the Interregnum under Cromwell. Quite the twist of fate! Prince Henry's story should be better well known.

[@ReadingthePast]

He would be an interesting topic to cover, thank you for the suggestion ☺️

[@1234cheerful]

@@ReadingthePastPlease do, Dr. Kat! After the one on Henry Fitzroy caught my interest I've come to really enjoy the What If videos.

[@arcola44]

Great Idea!

[@jacobhanson4391]

@@ReadingthePast Id really love a video on the Empress Matilda, Lady of the English.

[@morriganmoonglow2712]

​@@jacobhanson4391Agree!! 👏

[@nathanielziering]

Lol @ "That's my mum."

[@katherinehutton9870]

🇬🇧 I have always had problems with Mary Queen of Scots. The problems I've always had with her is she had so many chances and had power but always made the wrong decisions. Sometimes they seem to be very foolish and she always took others advice and never learned to rule on her own. She believed in her right as queen but could never understand that it was a balancing act.She made decisions from emotions but not using her head. Elizabeth had been raised to know that it could be taken away from her at anytime. Mary had been raised to believe that it could never be taken away from her and she was above all others. Here I blelive was the impass.

[@morriganmoonglow2712]

That's my take too . 👑🏰♟️

[@prarieborn6458]

In defence of Mary, she had a condition that historians believe, was Porphyria. its comlicated but it seems to be triggerd by great stress /crisis. Mary would collapse during an attack of porphyria. which means “purple urine” or “port wine urine” there would be pain and internal bleeding in the kidneys. and also vomiting blood.She would be unconscious & helpless to deal with the situation. Oftentimes she appeared to be near death. It happened when Darnley was murdered , just when she needed her wits about her to act fast &order the arrests and trials of the killers. but she didn’t, or couldn’ act. And something had weakened her again when she was captured and forced to abdicate. There is the story of a miscarriage of twins ‘duex enfants” prob @ 4 months, after she had been married to Bothwell. , but she was being held captive. her servants kept it a secret.. Poor Mary.

[@rebeccaabram2312]

Agreed, Mary was 'Book Smart' she wasn't stupid but she was raised very differently from Elizabeth who had hardship from a very young age, got savvy and 'Street Smart' much faster then Mary did.

[@lakaperse6995]

​​Mary has to leave her country at a such young age because Englang threathened her kingdom , she was harrased because she would not marry the king of England .She had a very jealous mother in law . Her own people humiliated her in front on the whole continent by having a treaty with Elisabeth the queen of the England , the very same country who was trying to invade Scotland . Élisabeth had a very difficult childhood that for sure but that does not mean that Mary was a little spoiled brat.@@rebeccaabram2312

[@TeriMcCann]

I absolutely agree, Mary made bad decisions.

[@cherokeecole2055]

I had never heard the letter James sent to Elizabeth asking or his mother’s life. Very sad😢

[@marcusfridh8489]

Hey, Dr Kat, i saw you on the regular Television yesterday at the documentary series "queens that changed the world" so happy for you to get the recognition that you truelly deserve. And by the way " happy belated international womens day.

[@conemadam]

I have been waiting for your response to this situation, which was, as you put it perfectly, »something else entirely. » You provided us with glimpses of James’s ,and Elizabeth’s finesse,in expressing their personal feelings. Both knew the boundaries of what they could write. But these letters attest to James’s will to survive and the Queen’s desire to maintain a kinship with her cousin, whose mother she had caused to be beheaded. For me, the thing that says everything, is Mary’s Monument in St Paul’s cathedral. A stunning visual and written announcement of his feelings

[@sauvignonblanc0]

I honestly didn't know that James VI communicated with Elizabeth I on this matter. Thank you Dr Kaat @ReadingthePast for enlightening many of us here👏

[@angelairidescenceartglass6289]

Mary’s tomb says more about James than it does about Mary. It’s reinforcing his claims to the throne of England and throwing a bit of shade at Elizabeth by stating that Mary’s greatest achievements were in fulfilling her biological “roles” - not political ones. I wonder if James was, in some ways, relieved that Mary was no longer a threat to his own crown and claims. 👑

[@jfs59nj]

Mary was, sadly, mother in name only to him. She became the ultimate inconvenient woman to him and so many others in Scotland, France, and England. She was not without fault, but the whole story is so sad. Aside from her tomb and a few letters, we appear to have scant evidence that he cared much at all. Tragic

[@ellencook1658]

On what planet would he have real affection for a complete stranger and dangerous woman whom he hadn’t seen since before he learned to speak?

[@Myke_OBrien]

Fascinating as always! You’re a captivating speaker, Dr. Kat. The only thing that sticks out to me is that he built a larger tomb for his mother than for Elizabeth. Make of that what you will. 👸🤴🇬🇧

[@bbybella9937]

Who cares? She was long dead. Him making a big tomb for her while not helping her out while she was alive is more telling.

[@Kris-bw7cv]

I always wondered if James was angry at his mother for not making better choices.

[@makeminemonsters]

My read on this is that, while he felt duty-bound to ask Elizabeth to spare his mother’s life, he had no deep ties of filial affection towards Mary; I doubt he remembered her at all. In my view, he was playing the long game; while most assumed he would be her heir, it wasn’t a sure thing (especially with his mother implicated in a conspiracy against Elizabeth). He needed to satisfy his natural duty to his mother without damaging his political ambitions or increasing the threats to his life. I think he threaded the needle very well; especially considering how young he was when all this went down, wasn’t he just about 21?

[@fayemoore8654]

Always enjoy your videos and this is another great one! Ironic that Henry VIII had Anne Boleyn executed, yet her daughter would become Queen of England. And in turn, that Elizabeth had Mary Queen of Scots executed, but her son James would become King of England.

[@prarieborn6458]

good catch.! History repeats in upside down echoes.

[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

Love your content! You're amazing 😊😊😊❤❤❤

[@patriciagodfrey6345]

If they had social media during this time all three, Mary, Elizabeth, and James, would have "it's complicated" listed for just everything.

[@thebarkisdue]

Thank @Dr. Kat! I would suggest James VI was disempowered in more ways than one. His letter trying to spare her mother was the middle of the way position almost to a surgical degree 🪓👶🤴👸

[@bilindalaw-morley161]

Imo the missing of the last word in James' letter was entirely deliberate.

[@MareaSmele-s7k]

Your not only knowledgeable, but make even quite difficult things, easy and interesting to follow 🇨🇦

[@HLBear]

Agreed! ❤

[@jeannetrottier4961]

Thanks Dr. Kat for all food for thought. You Rock!

[@DakotaFord592]

What a tragic story. I have spent years researching Mary Queen of Scots. Life is so strange. And all stories really do end the same. With death. Sometimes I would imagine I could go back in time and save her from her imprisonment. If only! I'm sure Mary Queen of Scots fantasized about that too. Maybe one of those gallant French nights would come from her past to come take her away. Back when her safety was the top concern for the Scottish government. And then to nothing... So many highs and so many lows.. it's crazy how James didn't even care that much because he wanted the English crown!

[@1234cheerful]

@DakotaFord592 Well said. I am sure many of us would have liked to change this part of history!

[@emmapadgett1181]

I know, you just want to rescue her.

[@DakotaFord592]

@@emmapadgett1181 when I was a little kid reading the book about her life. Antonia Frasers amazing biography! I don't think that it was intended for an 8 year old to read it. But that's what I was doing.

[@emmapadgett1181]

@@DakotaFord592 I will have to read that book. Just feel for her so much, and often wonder what Elizabeth I really knew about her execution.

[@DakotaFord592]

@@emmapadgett1181 it's such a crazy story because from Elizabeth's perspective it was completely viable and a good move to get rid of Mary. As long as Mary Queen of Scots was alive there would always be threats and to figurehead... But of course Mary was just going to England to try to get help. And it gets even crazier if you know more about history. There have been multiple English Queens who have fled to other countries.... Mary of Guelders fled to Scotland and she returned to England with an army. Mary Beatrice fled to France and she lived in the style and luxury as she did in the English court. The former English Queen became very good friends with the Sun king and Madame de maintenon.... There was no imprisonment or execution. So it actually made perfect sense to go to England. As crazy as it sounds because with hindsight we know that Mary Queen of Scots should have gone back to France. Where she was a dowager and had estates... But England was so close by... And not too long before there had been an English queen that had fled to Scotland.... It wasn't unbelievable that help would have come from Elizabeth.

[@theresalaux5655]

Thanks!

[@douglascollier7767]

Love this channel 😊

[@foxenandfamily5060]

What an interesting discussion! I do wonder if James had any personal feelings at all about his parents. Children - especially those who are isolated, as royal children once were - are easily lied to, but as they grow, they may learn the truth of matters they once took for granted. I do hope it was so for James. What a tragedy-filled childhood he had. As for his mother, while I do pity her, she did have abysmal taste in men and mostly deserved her end. But I wish she had not been separated from her son. Thanks for covering this topic!

[@jeromesullivan4015]

Thank you Dr. Kat. It must have been strange for a very young King to have to choose loyalties in this manner.

[@michellecranford9238]

What an interesting video..Poor lad was James..certainly shaped the man..🫅

[@catherinenelson9909]

I think James had no emotional connection with his mother. I think he was trying to survive after much abuse

[@vg6369]

Great Video Dr Kat .. I😊

[@LauraLeMond]

James was a survivor that's for sure. I wonder if he had help with wording/writing those letters. Anyone he cared for mistreated him or was killed when he was a young child. Maybe he saw Elizabeth, who endured her own trials, as a sister. Amazing they still have the correspondence. The size of the monuments is telling, though.

[@janicecain9191]

🦁Elizabeth (England), 🦄James (Scotland) , & ⚜Mary (France)

[@kirstyduncan408]

Mary was Scotland not France exvept through marriage. Scottish by birthright

[@tumbleweed249]

Yet another amazing video, thank you for your wonderful work.

[@ellenl5626]

Couldn't find emojis that encapsulated this fascinating trio but want your channel to be recognized as it should be ❤❤❤

[@nyckolaus]

Thank you, Dr. Kat. I love your videos!

[@laurashannon1177]

👑👑👑 Another wonderful video!

[@DiniAdd0807]

Great video. Thanks so much. I was wondering if Mary and James exchanged letters during her imprisonment.

[@annemorton5236]

Those letters between the two are astounding - what must it have been like both to write them and read them! In the long view James and his mother won out- since Charles III is descended from them. 👑👑👑

[@haleydukelow2988]

Congrats on the channel🎉

[@eshim3961]

Great video, as always!

[@vg6369]

Great video Dr Kat 😊

[@bmj1680]

I do always enjoy your instruction on these topics.❤

[@toddgarrison4229]

It must’ve been a strange and hard road for James, especially as a boy, being caught between his mother, Elizabeth, and his guardians. No wonder he became such a fascinating, famously closed off person in adulthood.

[@Calla-sl8gd]

Hi Dr. Kat! Good video as always. One thing that strikes me about James and his mother ... while he "pleaded" with Elizabeth to spare the life of this anointed queen, he never said anything like send the anointed queen home to Scotland and let me deal with her; surely, he could have said, you want rid of her, so get rid of her, send her to me. I realize that James wanted to tread carefully around Elizabeth, but I really don't think his mother's execution affected him that much. I think James looked the other way because he could see the greater benefit to himself. Thanks again for the video! 😀👧🍀🏰

[@valeriebolejack5957]

Very interesting.. Thank you

[@jenniferroxy5956]

👸🤴👸 lovely as always😊 thanx!

[@harrietb8903]

Really enjoyed this video! Can't wait to see and hear more. Thank you!

[@chrismurray2237]

🤴🏻👸🏻🫅🏼. Excellent analysis 👍🏻

[@Vintagevanessa99]

Thankyou

[@gabbyweiss4693]

Enjoy your scholarship immensely. Thank you.

[@darthbee18]

22:02 "...greatest of all in progeny..." I think this tells a lot on James' stance at this point in time on Elizabeth. The better looking tomb for Mary was probably not only because he eventually came to understand and honor her mother (...broadly speaking), but also to indirectly highlight himself as the better monarch than Elizabeth (especially considering their birth circumstances - at least James never had to experience "demotion" the way Elizabeth did?). Ofc progeny doesn't solely determine how good his performance as a monarch would be, but to anyone who doubts a monarch due to its progeny this is one way to convince them imho 🤔👀

[@katedresser8378]

Thanks for another wonderful video. 👑

[@LaLayla99]

It sounds that, no matter what, all three of them were determined to be the "top dog." I can only imagine how torn James I felt. 👸🤴👸

[@austinross3540]

Great Vid, Dr Kat, hopefully with the onset of a focus on the stuarts, we get that Alt history video on WI Heny Stuart, Prince of Wales had lived and became King instead of Charles, that Ive been clamoring for!!1 Cant wait

[@susanellis7780]

I read James had little feeling for his mother. And he did not want to share the throne with her😊

[@jasperhorace7147]

Well, why would he? Add in the whole toxic layer of religious differences, the hash Mary had made of her own rule and James was wise to be very wary about her. Those letter probably only express the conventional filial feelings due to a relationship devoid of physical contact.

[@Shantelle292]

Love your makeup today Dr K. Beautiful.

[@karenkorab8269]

Wonderful details that I have never heard. 🏰

[@kimberlyrigden4318]

Greetings Dr. Kat, adore your teachings. I have a question. Could, you research Bishop Parkhurst. During Parr and Elizabeth. Thank you 😌😊

[@arcola44]

Great topic and video. This has always been in the back of my mind, but never thought to investigate further. Thanks for exploring James' correspondence with his mother. I agree with other viewers he wrote to Elizabeth only out of a sense of duty. His childhood was like a scene out of Macbeth, and I think any emotional bond with his mother had been poisoned by those around him. His focus was on survival and succession.

[@emmapadgett1181]

What's your opinion on Mary and George?

[@yousavedtheworldtoday6577]

Great video, as usual. 🪓🪓🪓👸🏻👸🏻👸🏻 Wonder if Mary Queen of Scots' fate would have been different had she have a daughter?

[@1234cheerful]

Dr. Kat, this is a good idea for a video!

[@glorialange6446]

Wonderful vid❤ i think james was canny in how he dealt w Elizabeth. There was no sense in beating a dead horse or supporting a dead mother he did nit know. It is sad and it definitely put the crown before family feeling as was his duty as he was raised to rule, yet... I do think he suffered emotionally for it, probably for all his life. He really was begging for his mothers life, as far as he felt able to. I appreciate this look at James VII/Ist. Great job especially the letters and discourse.

[@kathleensmith8365]

This was a fascinating presentation. It provided answers not found in other resources. Mary Queen of Scots was in a difficult position for much of her adult life with many of her choices forced by circumstances. I do wonder if she had been a stronger ruler with a well defined strategic plan for controling the Scotish Lords, she might have obtained backing from England with an understanding supporting her strong rule would bring peace. Unfortunately, Mary made poor choices in her personal life. Optics count, she appears flighty, easily swayed by men, many poor decisions, many marriages. She did not have the core strength of Elizabeth I, or present day Princess Royal Anne. James, her son, did not have a true mother, son relationship with her. He may have wanted to protect her even though she had not been there to protect him. However, as an adult, he knew if he got too close, her chaos might result in his losing both the Scotish throne, perhaps his life, his life as well as losing potential for the English throne.

[@goeegoanna]

Fascinating, as always. Thank you. As to the end of the letter, could it be that James simply did not truly know where he stood, his place in Elizabeth's world? Perhaps this was a way to have her answer.

[@historybuff7491]

I think all of the above. 👑

[@IntrepidFraidyCat]

Oh, this should be interesting!!

[@lizryan6289]

And the deed haunted Elizabeth to the grave.

[@octavianpopescu4776]

Did it? If anything, she strikes me as the female version of Henry VIII, but with less murder. She liked to humiliate and torment more than she liked killing. Maybe she had some moments of regret at the time, but I don't see her losing any sleep over her actions.

[@Roz-y2d]

Possibly. But why did she have the warrant drawn up in the first place? Maybe she foresaw what would happen. She was a crafty, intelligent woman wasn’t she?

[@oonaghmarguerite6752]

I believe things worked out just as QE I had planned.

[@LenaFerrari]

Elizabeth was a terrific writer. Interesting

[@octavianpopescu4776]

I stongly recommend reading old timey letters. They all had a very... over-the-top style. I don't know if that's how they spoke in real life, I doubt it, but they took half a page just to say "hello". 😀 And the drama... instead of saying "long time no see" or "I miss you", they'd say stuff like "I yearn nothing more in this life than the heavenly delight of your company". And the spelling... it was all over the place, in the same letter, I saw "cousin" spelled "cosyn" and "cowsigne". One letter that stood out to me was a letter from Henry Herbert to his former wife, Lady Katherine Grey, when he just calls her a whore in every sentence. It's weird seeing how they're able to just drop all that politeness and say stuff that even to this day, seems rude.

[@nathanielziering]

The phonetic grammar of the period has always tickled my curiosity.@@octavianpopescu4776

[@theloverlyladylo9158]

Inspired by the new series Mary and George, would you consider doing a video on James VI/I favorites?

[@aroseinwinter7719]

❤ love you

[@evelinharmannfan7191]

🏵 Elizabeth and James shared a several traits. They both survived a dangerous childhood, loosing a parent to violent death, having to adept to violence and danger from a very young age. Both of them set out with high ideals, but felt compelled to shedding blood during their reign. Both were very learned, patient and careful. And both became monarchs that shaped the country significantly and made it more secure and stable. In contrast, Mary Stewart was no great success in whatever she undertook. Neither in France nor in Scotland was she able to build friendships or grow loyalty in her courtiers. She had failed as a queen twice already before she arrived in England. Just consider the idea of claiming Elizabeth´s crown and later seeking refuge in England! How stupid can you get? Unable to realize and accept her situation, she KEPT PLOTTING against Elizabeth while being her prisoner. This demonstrates once more her stupidity. I cannot say anything but "good riddance" to her execution. At least it removed the constant threat of civil war from England. Mary Stewart was endowed with noble birth and lineage, but all she drew from this was a sense of entitlement. She brought no self-discipline, no patience, and above all, no political thinking to the offices she held and the positions she found herself in. She did some nice embroidery, but as a queen she was a complete failure. Would James have wanted such a burden as a co-regent? Certainly not. He did not want his mother to die, and Elizabeth did not want to be the one to order her execution, but the situation (and Mary´s stubborn sense of entitlement) left them little choice.

[@scarlettg6136]

James was left alone in the world, at the mercy of all. He was well informed and learned how, firstly, to survive, then to enhance his power regardless of his mother👸🪓. His mother had left him a vulnerable situation, for which he made the most of. Mary was was Mary's priority, forever scheming to rule any and all possible. James bade his time and ruled all, not usurping anyone. I don't admire him as king. But. I do admire him as future king.🤴

[@LadyTaurus95]

Percy's words take away her right to her own greatness as a queen in her own right. 👑 ✒️

[@monikagrosch9632]

I would like to know who his nurse was and who cared for him during his growing up

[@monikagrosch9632]

I would love to see an episode on the cassette letters -are they a falsification or not?

[@sgillespie964]

That Epitah at 21:52 is Empress Matilda’s?

[@HabrenOdinsdottir]

You have 120k more subs than when I arrived!

[@NathanDudani]

Starts at 2:23

[@HLBear]

I've always thought James's reply to Elizabeth's explanation of the "accident" was telling. It's likely he was smart enough to see his mother for what she was and played every diplomacy to apparently defend her while also limiting her power. He was better suited and serves to stay close with Elizabeth. His life was a long game, as was hers. They shared an understanding wlwhich, likely, no one else could grasp. A life of somewhat lonely and important responsibility. Greater good, and all that. 💕

[@tessinman]

Thank you! This was the story I never knew, but always needed to hear. I think that the most significant determinate in the triangle of James, Mary and Elizabeth was the religion issue. Mary was Catholic and the Scots did not trust her. Uniting the two countries with one religion was the best move for everybody.

[@alyciab7417]

Here, you quoted that the inscription on her tomb reads,"... God Grant that her sons, and all who are descended from her...". I was surprised to read/hear , "sons" plural. Was that merely poetical or metaphorical or did she actually have another son? In the Babington Plot video, you mentioned rumors of Mary having a child with George Talbot, Earl of Shrewsbury. is there any evidence of that whatsoever?

[@DakotaFord592]

❤

[@jessicalinn9407]

♍🧟‍♀ I think he had to be set against her from a very early age. He learned to read the room very well and thought the only way to redeem was to be made King. Finally doing what all Scot princes had wanted taking over Scot and Eng. When it cam etime for her to acutally be unalived by Elizabeth his emotions started to take a toll on him.

[@susannebrown3255]

James knew that his mother could never be set free. 👍🏻🇨🇦🐉👩🏼‍⚖️

[@shellyklee2448]

I don't think he had any emotional attachment to Mary, but he did have a high view of himself and kingship, so defending her was necessary to defend the divine right of kings. I don't think he wanted to share power, and he had no clue what he would do with her if Elizabeth gave her back. Praising her after her death was a way of praising himself and his lineage. At this point, he had no one to offend by it and nothing to really risk.

[@MazMedazzaland]

I do wonder how much James could, or couldn't do for Mary...and how much he was willing to do. She was his mother, sure, but how much did he know her? And if he believed she murdered his father, well I can understand why he wouldn't try and really save her. I'd love to know how much he did try, but I don't know a lot about it despite being to several places associated with Mary.

[@livesouthernable]

James never knew his mother. He probably only heard negative things about her and decided it was not in his best interest to help her. His chief aim was to stay alive and keep his 👑 IMO

[@samanthafordyce5795]

Elizabeth signed the death warrant. Whatever her side arrangements might have been doesn't matter. She signed the document, she was responsible for the result. She wrote a lot of nonsense in trying to excuse herself. She should have saved herself the effort.

[@octavianpopescu4776]

I noticed a lot of people give her a pass for behaviour that honestly is similar to what her father did. And she has that feminist icon image to this day, although she had no issue trampling over other women for things like... getting married. She seemed to take pleasure in it. And everyone praises her for 1588 (the Armada), but no one talks about 1589 (the disaster of the English invasion of Spain, the Counter-Armada). Is it not fair to look at both in evaluating her leadership? She was a competent politician, but a terrible human being.

[@DonnaV411]

@@octavianpopescu4776 I am a great admirer of QE1 and I don't give any of her behaviour a pass. I hold her accountable for everything that she did. She was what she was - a human being. If you think she was a terrible one you are entitled to that opinion. I find her a fascinating one. Of course she is responsible for Mary's death. But a king would have done the same and probably sooner. And while not buying into her attempt at claiming it was not her fault, can't I still appreciate the marvel of rationalization that is her letter to James. What a mind - she did not want. to be responsible, but all know and knew she was and GOD knew. I chuckle, Elisabeth was squeamish of having to face her creator not of killing. A brilliant woman, who had a knack for survival and who trusted her own capabilities and instincts, especially about who else to trust. And in a time when to say it was a man's world was a gross understatement. How can I not adirer her, faults and all. As for trampling over other women, I am a feminist but if you think i am not going to have a few things to say to a woman who sleeps with my boyfriend or husband, guess again. I am not going to only blame him. I don't know why some people think that a female feminist must treat all other woman kindly or even fairly or she loses the right to call herself a feminist. There are males who believe in and adhere to the principles of feminism too and they are not obligated to be kind to all women either.

[@floraposteschild4184]

​@DonnaV411 I have to chuckle at the idea that Mary was a victim. She was firmly of the opinion she was the rightful queen of England and a political player like many others. That she was unsuccessful (but pretty) doesn't make her a martyr.

[@octavianpopescu4776]

@@DonnaV411 Don't get me wrong, terrible doesn't mean not fascinating. If that were the case, we wouldn't love a good villain in our stories and there are people we love to hate. I don't blame her for Mary's death. Mary did plot against her, in an assassination attempt even. So, she was perfectly justified in this situation. Things that I do find terrible are things like the aftermath of the Spanish Armada, when Lord Howard, the Lord High Admiral felt ashamed how the sailors weren't paid and some couldn't even afford to go home... those people risked their lives for her, in her famous Tilbury Speech she promised them "I myself will be your general, judge, and rewarder of every one of your virtues in the field." Where was their reward? Howard paid them himself from his own money. I would disagree that her treatment of other women was equivalent to what you're describing. First of all, she had no husband or boyfriend. So what's it to her if Lettice Knollys marries Robert Dudley? She had decades to make up her mind regarding him. And I get the political considerations of marriages, but at the end of the day, there was an epidemic of secret marriages. Why? Because she kept saying no. I get her not wanting to get married herself, but why impose that on others? And I get her being suspicious of Katherine Grey's marriage, but she imprisoned her for over 6 years without charges. Katherine died depressed, probably of TB or worse... starving herself to death from the depression. Was her life worth less than Elizabeth's prestige and power? Towards the end of her life, when Robert Cecil asked about the succession and mentioned Katherine's children, Elizabeth still hated her... 35 years after her death... Elizabeth still hadn't got over it. I can't help but admire Katherine for getting so much under her skin. Elizabeth went above what was politically expedient. That's not some cold political calculation, that is personal malice. It's Henry VIII part 2. But to her credit, she didn't go on a rampage like him. To answer your question: why do people assume that a feminist must treat all other women kindly or fairly? Because since feminism is an ideology that supports the rights of women, then the benefit to women as a group needs to be considered. If one person is only looking out for herself/himself, then she's automatically just a selfish person looking out for no. 1, not someone caring about any higher principles or feeling any solidarity towards anyone. And I get not liking some people, but fairness has to exist.

[@DonnaV411]

@@floraposteschild4184 I don't think I said Mary was a victim. the only thing I said about Mary was that QEI was responsible for her death.

[@paulinebush7761]

👸🏻🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🤴🏻🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿👸🏻

[@LeeKempter]

I have absolutely no idea how to add an emoji

[@Roz-y2d]

You sound like I used to be.🤣 Just tap on the smiley face at the bottom of your ‘phone. Then tap the abc symbol to get back. Good luck.😅

[@beverlymartin1414]

❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤😮😮

[@SafetySpooon]

The monument said it all: James, growing up without his mother, cannot have had any emotional attachment to her. The high propaganda put into the monument (even its *height*) showed that he was using her death the same way he used her life: as a careful advancement of his own position.

[@cassiemontgomery45]

A part of me feels like Queen Mary should have stayed in France after the death of her husband, King Francois II. I've read that his mother wasn't having it! Mary was in France from the time she was 5 and was essentially French in culture and language, and a Roman Catholic. I think she would have been better off there and perhaps remarried to a French nobleman. Just about anyone would have been better than Darnley or Bothwell. James Stewart, the Earl of Moray could have simply remained the de facto ruler. Mary was no match for a country and aristocracy that she didn't understand, not to mention going through a Protestant Reformation of it's own. As for King James' feelings about his mother, it's hard to say. He didn't know her and God only knows what he'd been told about her. I think James knew it would not be in his best interest in the long-term to raise a fuss about her execution. I've read that James was considered to be "the wisest fool in Christendom".

[@user-ls2fh6qr8q]

Later in life, when he could afford independent thought, he must’ve wondered if all he’d heard about his mother was correct. Everyone wants to have come from a good mother. The tomb is good evidence that he found her ‘ not guilty’.😊

[@floraposteschild4184]

It's good evidence he saw it in his best interests to pretend she was "not guilty." Nothing I've ever read about James suggests he was the sentimental type.

[@happybkwrm]

I think he believed his mother was more trouble than she was worth.

[@BlackCatMargie]

It's so complicated. Elizabeth had no real choice but to execute Mary. The Pope and Philip2 had made it impossible for Elizabeth to be secure while Mary was alive. The Pope had declared Elizabeth's assassination to be the duty of all English Catholics, and Philip was funding plot after plot to accomplish this edict. Mary was a pawn, who had to be wiped off the board. Elizabeth's protestations of innocence after the event could be seen as lack of accountability, but I think she knew what she was doing, and James knew she knew it. Mary was a threat to his throne too, as she would surely have usurped him to appease her Catholic backers. So they engaged in some fairly pretentious post-execution correspondence, to play the aggrieved son and innocent Queen game, before moving on. Poor Mary. James made magnificent tombs for both women, but he barely knew either, except through correspondence. I think he probably had strong understanding of both women's impossible position, and honoured them both in death. 🤴🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

[@JulieShock]

I believe that JAmes was playing long game for the English crown, and in the end gave his mother greater homage with her tomb.

[@hughiepearce]

...it seems to me James knew where his bread was buttered and Motherly love was not part of the plan

[@ElizabethMcCormick-s2n]

He didn't really care one way or the other!

[@kimberlyperrotis8962]

❤

[@knitsalot1001]

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[@Roz-y2d]

👍🏻❤️

[@TheMehamil85]