Reality's challenge to physics | Michio Kaku, Avshalom Elitzur, Tim Maudlin and Jimena Canales

Avshalom Elitzur, Michio Kaku, Tim Maudlin and Jimena Canales thrash out the implications of what current physics says about the nature of time.
Does time really flow in the way we think it does?
Watch the full debate at iai.tv/video/the-trouble-with...
In our everyday experience, time is an inescapable backdrop against which events unfold, allowing us to sequence events and measure durations. Yet in the hundred years since Einstein's theory of general relativity, physics has had a radically different account. Time does not flow, there is no before and after. We are not born and we do not die. The entirety of spacetime is given at the outset of the universe. There is no cause and effect. Is this radical discrepancy with our everyday experience a threat to physics or a threat to our understanding of what it is to be alive?
Should we take seriously claims of physicists that everyday experience is an illusion? Or is it their model of the universe that is mistaken? Or are these two profoundly different accounts of time the product of frames of understanding that will always remain incompatible?
#michiokaku #time #physics
Quantum theorist Avshalom Elitzur, theoretical physicist Michio Kaku, philosopher of physics Tim Maudlin, and historian of science Jimena Canales delve into the fascinating conundrum of time. Güneş Taylor hosts.
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[@scipioafricanus2]

glad they didn't let kaku interject. he would have confused matters as usual with unverifiable hyperbole.

[@ROZ7AH]

I really hope that we can solve the mystery between classical mechanics that make sense in everyday life and quantum mechanics that makes sense in a scientific level in my lifetime. Living to see quantum mechanics truly understood and having a simple explanation would be incredible. I cant wait, i hope we're smart enough to figure it out and it's not just simply above our cognition!

[@danwoywitka]

Don't be cheap, post full videos instead of luring us to your subscription model.

[@paulonius42]

Don't be cheap, pay for the content.

[@checkmilu]

​@paulonius42 scientific education should be free for everyone! many other channels do that e.g. World Science Festival hosted by Professor Brian Green.

[@paulonius42]

@checkmilu Science information should be free for all, but nobody should be obligated to spend their time educating you for free. In a debate such as this, the individuals are contributing their thoughts and time, and all the data they are discussing can be found freely. It's reasonable to pay people for contributing their own thoughts and time.

[@checkmilu]

@paulonius42 scientists get paid for their research, raising public awareness of science should be their free contribution, if not people will turn elsewhere. I'd choose World science Festival and Closer to Truth channel any day over this greedy channel.

[@paulonius42]

@@checkmilu Then go to those channels and stop commenting here. 🙄

[@drbuckley1]

Our physics are not wrong, just incomplete.

[@QuantumPolyhedron]

Probably, but I think the job of philosophers should be to interpret reality in regards to the physics, rather than to refuse to interpret reality and insist the physics must be incomplete because it does not match with their preconceptions. The speculations about some alternative physics should be left to the physicists.

[@musicsubicandcebu1774]

I say, completely wrong!

[@drbuckley1]

@@musicsubicandcebu1774 Whom shall we dispense first? Newton or Copernicus?

[@a-square4085]

They are dancing around a Theory of Time. I wish one of the theoretical physicists would sit down with their thinking caps on, write down the properties of time, and write a mathematical theory defining those properties. Just like Newton did for all physical phenomenon he could measure. for instance... 1. In order for C to be measured as a constant. Everyone has to experience time ticking at the same rate in all frames of reference. But at different rates when measured between different frames of reference. Once a mathematical theory of time is established, I'll bet most of the confusion will be lifted.

[@user-kh6xl4yg1j]

Quantum theory deals with various subatomic energy fields; in contrast, general and special relativity deal with macro events where by definition the energy fields have not just coalesced into matter - but have done so on massive scales, such as planets, solar systems and galaxies. Thus, gravity and the effect of mass (in bending the space-time fabric) has a huge effect while at the quantum level these forces have no effect as either the energy fields have no or too little mass to effect the space-time continuum. Thus, quantum and general/special relativity don’t really conflict but both represent reality - just at opposite ends of the same pole.

[@rexchatyoka9429]

I thoroughly enjoy the physics discussions on IAI. They are brilliant

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

Brilliant and lacklustre are RELATIVE. 😉 Incidentally, Slave, are you VEGAN? 🌱

[@frickzzpv]

what experiments is that he mentioned that quantm level it effect the past also ? how is it ?

[@patrickphelan5863]

Time is simply a constructed unit of measure. Relativity refers to the point at which a measure is observed. Since the point of observation can be variable; so can relative measure be variable.

[@onlynormalperson]

Time isn't a unit. We have units of time. Saying time is a unit begs the question unit of what?

[@patrickphelan5863]

@@onlynormalperson Not a unit, but a point of measure ... an instant of observation. For relativity, there must be more than a single point.

[@onlynormalperson]

I think that just raises the same question. If time is a point of measure, what is being measured?@@patrickphelan5863

[@eastbrecht]

Time is a counter of Planck events, but don't quote me on that.

[@D4RKFiB3R]

​@@onlynormalpersonI don't know. You said we have units of it.

[@rana8547]

Avshalom you are a brilliant person, there was no need to be rude towards kaku

[@frogandspanner]

9:27 Genius is seeing the obvious before others.

[@TheUltimateSeeds]

I find it interesting that when discussing the ontological nature of the universe, they (the physicists), by their own calculations, have no idea what 95% of the universe is made of (as in "dark energy" and "dark matter") and the possible role those truly "hidden variables" may play in the deeper workings of reality.

[@erichandbury6321]

Yes, but those 'hidden variables' will most likely be weirder than we can possibly imagine, or even hope to understand

[@quantumentanglementsolved2531]

(1)There are no hidden variables. There are fundamental variables. I explain this with the electron on my channel here. (2) The notion that “we have experiments that proof” is not true. Often in quantum mechanics, experiments only “show” us what, it doesn’t explain “how” it happened. Lastly, “proof as I define it, is evidence, either in the nature of its presentation or a link to the actual occurrence that cannot be subjected to any reasonable opposing argument.”

[@rachelroseg9295]

Wow, your comment alone just got your channel one more subscriber! I'm seriously excited to check out your content! I'm new to this and so fascinated to learn more, so I appreciate the straight to the point, well-stated info you shared. 🙏🏽👩‍🔬

[@reginaerekson9139]

8:36 go use a 3 way mirror with a 4th mirror-you will be in super position of all your quantum many worlds. Choose your experience, chart a course and in time you get there? 😊

[@James-ll3jb]

Cute😅😅

[@desperateastro]

Agreed, the 10 minute snippets seem designed to lure you to pay for more.

[@nobodieshome_]

It’s GROSS

[@ErnestoConfused]

God, I wish I didn't have to work 40 hours a week. I'd love to spend my days researching this stuff, watching open source courses on the fundamentals of physics, while concurrently practicing and evolving my applied mathematics skills. Man, what a let down, seems I'll have to wait a couple decades, by which then my fluid intelligence will have been largely spent contributing to the capitalistic and neoliberal edifice. Of course, I could pursue academia, but that's a game I don't have the character to partake in and enjoy.

[@DanielBarberMusic]

Then do it. You’re energy and matter like everything else. Do what you would love to do. Make it up if you have to. Find your way. Create something that has never been before. Maybe it’ll be a new way for more than just you. Let your curiosity about the nature of reality be your guide through your own experience of it all.

[@peterdavila3045]

One problem is that we use the classical Space eith quantum experiments. Three-dimensional Space is a classical construct. Then, there is Time. But, that, IMO, doesn't exist. I think a better approach is to postulate that existence is a Simulation. Start with that assumption as true and then reconcile the experiments within that box.

[@megano.7836]

If this is true, and we could apply it to the larger scale of our own lives, that would mean that if we change our selves in the present, we are there for changing ourselves in the past, and the future as well? Very interesting concept to think of.

[@nyworker]

Great that four seated people can discuss time while Father Time watches.

[@pedrowojciechowski8669]

Why people are being toxic about Kaku?

[@rachelroseg9295]

My thoughts exactly! The women especially are being so disrespectful towards him.

[@rana8547]

There is a simple and elegant way to merge quantum mechanics and relativity and it is through integrating consciousness into the picture. Avshalom knows it and resents it with his whole being, for no real reason but fear. The situation is no different than what galillo and Copernicus had to endure in their time, only now main stream science, as it is, is the catholic church, and gallileo is David bohm and others who challange the stiff idea that consciousness has nothing to do with physical reality

[@KaliFissure]

Time is a compactified dimension one single Planck second in size.

[@user-ky5dy5hl4d]

Time does not flow. Has nothing to do with clocks. Time has no qualities. Time is not entropy and entropy is not time. Time has a derivative which is ''always''.

[@AmbivalentInfluence]

Time flows because spacetime flows. If every particle in the universe ceased to exist, time would still flow. The ocean exists whether there are bubbles and waves on it or not.

[@clckwrk0rng391]

Do they experience all of this?

[@SandipChitale]

Avshalom was pretty aggressive and ignored what Tim was saying, however in the extended format discussion on ESIM channel, "Tim Maudlin and Avshalom Elitzur on the Nature and Flow of Time" where Tim got a chance to explain his positions better and more and to challenge Avshalom's ideas, towards the end Avshalom seems to be agreeing and wanting to learn from Tim. Sometimes debate oriented scientific discussion are not productive, even though are click baity.

[@polishsandman]

Tim is worst discutant ever

[@christopherellis2663]

Matter moves in space. Time is merely the observation of this. Memory, observation, guess

[@thcoura]

Michio Kaku in the panel looks Zordon of Power Rangers. Trapped inside the screen 😂😂😂

[@lucvanderstap6417]

Not so difficult to understand if you imagine the universe is inside a singularity (it is), then quantum entanglement is way easier to understand and to explain like the fact that the universe(s) is/are simulation(s)

[@mrhassell]

Time is money, so.. Go with the Flow!

[@frankshifreen]

Great video

[@OBGynKenobi]

No. Things change.

[@hometheatre1706]

Actually it's way simpler than most think. Time is often defined as the 4th dimension, isn't it? And dimension can actually be interpreted/expressed in another way as "permission". How so? As we already know, the first 3 dimensions pertain to the 3D space of our physical universe. Matters/Particles found within this space have the ability to move in 3 different axes. That can also be defined as "3 distinct permissions" for the particles in space to move freely - in the X, Y and Z axes respectively. Therefore, Time is simply another dimension (permission) that enables Matter to move freely in Space. It's that simple really, yet many are still perplexed by the concept of time due to partial or incomplete understanding of the origin of this universe. Once we understand that dimensions are actually interchangeable term with permissions, "everything" in creation simply falls into place. Perfect clarity arises and seemingly abstract, mysterious, confounding concepts starts to make perfect sense. You see, for in the beginning, there is One who created and gave all these things the "permissions" to behave the way as they should, governed by the laws of physics. These laws didn't happen by coincidence, but were purposefully created by the Lawgiver. Now, with ongoing research and tremendous advancement in technology, scientists are getting even closer to discovering what "reality" is all about. The space we once knew is no longer the only one in existence. Hyperspace is the new reality. Well guess what, this had already been revealed ages ago. The Author of the best selling and most distributed book in human history (according to Guinness World Records), stated that this universe we live in which can be observed/seen, came from that which can't be seen (Hebrews 11:3). With the advent of QM, only now we're discovering this had been a fact..a reality, all along. Hmm, isn't it such an exciting period of time we're living in? Concerning the debate, ironically both Kaku and Elitzur are correct...with Elitzur being the more adamant one in his own exposition, haha. Time works differently at quantum levels because we're stepping into the realm of hyperspace...that is, spaces beyond our physical, observable space. We're doing a great job of "reverse engineering" our way back to the creation of our universe and progressively discovering that what's on the other side is governed by "additional, yet to be discovered" laws of physics. That's a really exciting prospect, to be honest...what a time to be alive!! The block universe is indeed a reality (i.e. major world/cosmological events were already "written in the stars", as it were, waiting to occur at appointed their time). On a smaller personal scale, freewill DOES exist and it is therefore a reality too. Some sadly deny this fact/reality...prefers to classify this as mere illusion, along with time. Look, even a humble tiny little photon can exhibit particle duality, what more something of "greater magnitude in importance" like time, isn't it so? Hence, both scientists are absolutely correct, though it appears they can't seem to agree, with Elitzur being the more "adamant, strong-headed" one. Nice seeing this sort of debate though, even though the full recording isn't published for free. Thanks to the admin anyways..cheerio!

[@mathamour]

If time does not flow, How can we measure the speed of light ? If the concept of time did not exist, it would be impossible to measure the speed of light. This is because the speed of light is calculated as the ratio of distance to time. Without time, there would be no way to measure distance either. This is because distance is defined as the displacement between two points, and displacement is defined in terms of the passage of time.

[@hometheatre1706]

@@mathamour Precisely. Time does exist, just that it doesn't exist or is defined in the form most presume it to be. The flow of time is simply the enablement for particles/matters to move freely in space, thus enabling motion which we then observe and termed as "the passage of time". In the same vein, all higher dimensions (be it 8 or 11..i personally believe either one should be the most reasonable/logical numbers of real dimensions in existence) can be treated as "permissions or enablers" ...allowing exotic, unknown, yet-to-be-discovered particles to move and behave as they ought to within hyperspace. Similar to our space-time continuum, higher dimensional space-time contains unknown particles which are "being enabled" to move freely and interact with one another, and yes even with our lower dimensional matters. Perhaps this accounts for dark matter actually is, sth which can't be seen yet it tangibly interacts with our physical matters in a very real, profound way. One more thing worth mentioning, in that best selling/most distributed Book, it is mentioned there are at least "3 spaces or heavens" - the 1st, 2nd and 3rd heaven. The 1st heaven being our cosmos and 3rd heaven is the dwelling place of the Most High. Though the 2nd isn't being referenced directly, but is understood if there's a 1st and 3rd mentioned clearly, surely the 2nd exist as well. Hence a simple deduction can already be made that hyperspace is indeed a reality, without having to delve into deep mathematics or physics. The first verse from that Book sums it all, "In the beginning, the Creator created the heavens and earth." (Genesis 1:1) Heavens in its original text means "Shamayim", which can translated to mean sky, heaven or simply space...an empty place where all particles/matters of its respective realm forms everything which resides within that space. Thus from this single verse itself, it directly implies there is more than one space in existence. Hope what's shared helps those who genuinely seek to understand the foundation of our universe and reality of hyperspace a little better... 🙂

[@mathamour]

@@hometheatre1706 "Excuse me, but I wasn't referring to time in a religious sense. In fact, I find the Bible to be full of contradictions, illogical arguments, and fantastical stories."

[@hometheatre1706]

@@mathamour I know you're not referring to time in that sense. But at some point, philosophy (call it religion, fantasy, etc.) and science will inevitably collide as more discoveries are being made. Even top physicists and theoretical ones are getting more at odds with one another, even though incredible progress have been made in the recent few decades via scientific methods. Anyway I'm just here to share with others what I've observed and learnt thus far from my own journey of discovering reality. Plus I'm not limiting myself to just purely one source of interpretation. The more I learn, it seems clear to me everyone with real intention to uncover the truth behind reality provides another missing puzzle to the big, grandiose complete picture. I'm personally convinced that one day, we will without a doubt fully understand the mysteries of hyperspace... And bet my bottom dollar it'll be stranger and wilder than fiction. By the way, I'm sorry if I've offended you in anyway 🙏🏻...that's not my intention. Cheers my friend, wishing you a blessed and happy life always! 🙂🥂

[@mathamour]

Ancient Greek philosophers and European theologians, not knowing the basic elements of matter and having no knowledge of the movements of celestial bodies outside the Earth, criticized scientists by making very fictional and comic-like remarks. When we measure the length of an object, we simply measure the length with a ruler, and we do not say that it is long in a philosophical sense, that long is different from short, or that long is mysterious and short is not mysterious. We simply want to know its length. Time is mysterious because it is invisible to our eyes and cannot be touched. However, we are asking for a scientific explanation of the nature of time. We do not want to hear mystical fiction about time. The idea that we can say anything about time because it is invisible is no different from the ancient Greek philosophers and medieval European theologians saying anything they want. I am not a mystic, and philosophy is just a matter of opinion, so it is of no help in measuring the length and width of an object. Although I do not blindly accept all tenets of physics, my discovery of numerous contradictions within the Bible, which no theologian has satisfactorily explained, prevented me from maintaining my Christian faith indefinitely.

[@scipioafricanus2]

the hidden variables do exist and they are the trajectories of the particles in 3 dimensional space interacting with their pilot waves generated within the higgs field.

[@erichandbury6321]

Nope, requires non-locality.

[@SkyDarmos]

In reality general relativity is at odds with a lot of observations. Especially with measurements of big-G.

[@eenkjet]

We care about it because if a block universe is nature's ontology, we have an absolutely teleological reality, ....occasionalism.

[@paulparry6308]

No..... It radiates. Space-time-gravity......

[@_uncredited]

These timewasters need to get a job.

[@chaoticmoh7091]

😂😂

[@udp1024]

The proposal by Elitzur to NOT try to unify the two theories sounds moronic. Definitely not a mark of a scientist but signs of a theologian.

[@NoThankYouToo]

This is the bottleneck with the simulator on the other side.

[@Thomas-gk42]

Uncredible, that such an intelligent man like Maudlin can be that biased, not only about time, but about locality, too. Michio Kaku is just a clown talking beyond the topic. Elitzur got it right. It´s a pity, that the lady Jimena Canales wasn´t heard more, a fail of the hostess.

[@christiansmith-of7dt]

I wish that I liked to talk

[@michaelevans4110]

Qur'an 70:4. Unto Him the angels and the Spirit ascend on a Day the duration of which is fifty thousand years. Qur'an 32:5. He regulates all affairs, from the heavens, to the earth. Then it ascends to Him on a Day the length of which is a thousand years by your count. Qur'an 22:47. And they ask you to hasten the punishment. But God never breaks His promise. A day with your Lord is like a thousand years of your count. Alhamdulillahi rabbi al'alameen

[@mrknesiah]

Time is a myth

[@CPHSDC]

So the future is happening and the past is unhappening? The cat has a tail! How symmetrical. Happening is a very local phenomenon, the rules of the universe are universal. The universe is not. (Is Chess 'beautiful'?)

[@rickysylvester4945]

I have unified all the theory's, they are different at different scales. Done! Move on

[@rickysylvester4945]

You can't unify wwe ufc and wbc. Fact!

[@1EliPrice]

Should we care?! Is she serious. We’ve built the biggest machine ever created and spent billions of dollars just to find one particle. No one asked should we care. To try and merge quantum physics with special and general relativity seems like a lot better thing to care about.

[@sakismpalatsias4106]

One thing is for sure. Is the grandfather paradox doesn't exist under a closed time loop. Why... Because if you put a warm holes near the point of event horizon and other in flat space. Once the bridge is created. You can never go farther back in time prior to the creation of the bridge. In furtherance, time still moves forward for both sides; with time dialation. Ie if 10 min have passed in reference to the bridge, near event horizon of black hole, you can never go to the creation of the bridge nor 10 min after the creation of the bridge. This doesn't prove time travel is possible but it negates the grandfather paradox, without invoking the multiverse.

[@alexwoodhead6471]

This falls apart when you consider the 'path' taken between 2 blackholes orbiting each other... I suppose you couldn't go back further than when they started orbiting each other, but that is still WAY further back in time than maybe the beginning of life it's self...

[@sakismpalatsias4106]

@@alexwoodhead6471 though I was not refreshing that theory. I am assuming you are talking about two black holes and orbiting the black holes at certain vectors , actually gets you back prior to the time you began the course. Though it's a slightly different concept, in this scenario. I agree you can't go farther back than the orbits. But the question to the grandfather paradox is not about your existence but the creation of the mechanisms to transverse time. Again, this doesn't mean time travel is possible but the fact that grandfather paradox is averted; under certain scenarios. Still, you may create a bootstrap paradox, in a closed time loop; Negating any reference to a multiverse. You also can't approach it from your perspective, unless you created the anomaly. It's analogous to understanding a photon. You can't approach a photon by the anthropocentric but photonic centric. The photon doesn't care what you think. So the act of what created the anomaly can't be changed.

[@proteusaugustus]

I got all of you beat. You are in a mathematical fantasy. The standard model is a collection of light fragments. My Smith-Borden Proton beats you all. E=TC2. X=π/E. You guys can't beat me.

[@dontveter3372]

When God created the Heavens and the Earth, He created a block universe. Then, during the creation process, when He sees a scientist doing the double slit experiment using a detector behind the slit He looks at the result you get from the Schroedinger equation and says, “I need to produce a particle-like pattern on the screen”. And when there is no detector, He looks at the equation and says “I need to produce a wave-like pattern on the screen”.

[@ShonMardani]

It seems that all your theories are invalidated and you are resigning instead of finding the truth.

[@ionutsfetcu4550]

I’ve heard better theories from stoners.what makes these people experts?

[@onlynormalperson]

PhDs. Also I don't think they were conveying theories per se. I think they were interpreting theories like relativity.

[@marktunnicliffe2495]

Maybe it's the years of study in relative subjects to gain degrees, masters degrees to then gain PhD's in subjects they want to concentrate on and become expert in.

[@alext5497]

They are extreme leftists and anti capitalists.

[@stoyanfurdzhev]

Luoghi comuni

[@paulonius42]

Michio Kaku is proof that not all clowns are scary.

[@alexwoodhead6471]

What is that supposed to mean?

[@onlynormalperson]

@@alexwoodhead6471 he's saying Michio is a crank with bad ideas.

[@paulonius42]

@alexwoodhead6471 Either you're unfamiliar with Kaku's work or you're unaware that many people consider clowns scary.

[@onlynormalperson]

People finding clowns scary is the premise of the guys joke@@paulonius42

[@alext5497]

​@@alexwoodhead6471how do you not understand

[@elberethreviewer5558]

Stop trying to create this umbrella "theory for everything." It's a nice thought, but it's not the right tree to be barking up. I don't think a universe this complex will be wrapped up in a pretty bow for scientists to make your life easier. Not everything needs to be put together. They could just be so different they are like different worlds or universes.

[@boonraypipatchol7295]

Quantum Information and Quantum Entanglement are Fundamental. Entropy increase. Time is one way go forward....

[@howtheworldworks3]

No, time does not flow. Time is simply a measurement of events taking place. There is no time flow, time travel or any of the many fictional concepts of time in the same way there is no meter that is 5 meters long.

[@onlynormalperson]

Time isn't a measurement. If it is you need to ask what is being measured and you are at an infinite regress. Time is being measured. We can say Time flowed for 5 minutes just as we can say the space between two objects is 5 meters.

[@TheVeganVicar]

@@onlynormalperson, incorrect.

[@TheVeganVicar]

THE ONTOLOGY OF TIME: One of the most misunderstood aspects of this space-time universe is just that - space and TIME. There are various extant theories of time. However, time is a very simple concept to grasp for one who has experienced his or her own timeless nature. This usually occurs during a meditation practice or during an awakening experience (see Chapter 17 to understand the notion of spiritual awakening). Possibly the easiest way to understand time, is to use the analogy of a movie. It may take a couple hours to watch a motion picture, yet the whole film is contained in the form of a single digital file (or in the case of older mediums, a reel of photographic film). The story of this universe may take hundreds of billions of earth years to complete, but from the perspective of eternity (literally, “no time”) it is not even as long as the blink of an eyelid. Indeed, it cannot be measured at all, for to measure a period of time requires a time-based metric! To use movie industry jargon, the story of this cosmos is already “in the can” (i.e. in the canister of film). This so-called “block theory” of time (otherwise known as “eternalism”) is contrasted with philosophical presentism, in which the present moment alone exists. In practical terms, time is the perception of a succession of physical or mental events (that is to say, time corresponds to phenomenal change). So, to succinctly summarize the philosophy of time, from the viewpoint of The Absolute, all time is contained within a pinpoint of eternity, yet from the perspective of conscious agents, there are no wholly past or merely future entities whatsoever. Read Chapters 08 & 11 to learn of causality and predestination. Cf. “time” in the Glossary.

[@onlynormalperson]

Good counter argument ​@TheVeganVicar

[@howtheworldworks3]

@@onlynormalperson What I mean is that it does not flow. People misunderstand time as this malleable stuff that is tied to space but it's not. Scientists can be wrong too and in this case they are. Duration AKA true time is fixed for all entities everywhere. What is perceived about time in physics are false illusions based on how people have built their measurement devices. past events already happened for everyone everywhere at the exact same time but the effects of those events will differ based on where you are because of the distances involved and the fact that any effect must travel in space in order to affect other places.