Reason and Theology - Heaven, Hell and the Afterlife

[@paulvonblerk9365]

"patience: the capacity to accept or tolerate delay, problems, or suffering without becoming annoyed or anxious " Dr Ehrman you get 10/10 for patience.

[@cheerfulerik]

Heaven and Hell part fantastic. But why the tedious hour on Judith? I almost threw my iPhone into Gehenna.

[@runawaytrain9794]

I lost count to how many proverbial Mic Drops Bart does in this one. Masterful as usual.

[@athanasiusjames1]

I never fail to be impressed by Professor Ehrman's erudition. Bravo, and much gratitude.

[@Iamwrongbut]

Why is Albrecht so fixated about Judith!? There are so many better things they could have talked about but this topic ate up what felt like half of the entire time.

[@Hamann9631]

Judith is in The Apocrypha. That is a part of The Bible which Catholics believe is canonical but Protestants (not sure if it is all or some) believe is uncanonical. Maybe he is Catholic and feel motivated about that because of a desire to show Protestants it is true.

[@hebrewenglishbibleread9941]

Far, far far too much time spent on the Judith question.

[@richardverrall534]

Because you had two extremely arrogant people arguing about it. Funny, I never thought there could be someone even more tiresome and arrogant than Ehrman. As an atheist, I seem to have found an actual miracle there. I note that Ehrman only kept his annoying voice to a minimum when he was calculating whether the Judith guy had him on the back foot or not.

[@tjworker5482]

Richard Verrall mr Erhman may have arrogance. Like a long time electrician, plumber, scientist has proven themselves for years. And getting into it with people for years😬

[@tjworker5482]

I meant Dr. Erhman 🙏🏻😂

[@herbertwells8757]

Dr. Ehrman doesn’t seem to me to be the slightest bit “arrogant” here or anywhere else, for that matter, and only someone who espouses dilettantism, who rates the uninformed hobbyist equal to the professional, could possibly think him arrogant. In fact, Dr. Ehrman is remarkably indulgent towards dilettantes. He is willing to suffer them to a much greater extent than is warranted. He is one of the least arrogant competent professionals I’ve ever encountered-in any field.

[@roarblast7332]

Herbert wells. I don’t agree. I think it’s an important service to provide.

[@Seeking2FindBalance]

I'm so glad we have a guy like Bart who can bring some clarity to the nonsensical beliefs attributed to the Bible. This video highlights the absolute confusion found in Christianity. How many hundreds of denominations are there? How many different viewpoints are there at complete opposition to each other, but they all think "THEY'RE RIGHT" LOL and they all claim to KNOW GOD? How can anyone EVERY nail down the "truth" from documents that are thousands of years old, copied like the telephone game over hundreds of years that are shown to contain errors and added texts that weren't in the original fragments of COPIES (Key word)...not original documents. We don't even know the actual names of the gospel writers, but we need to trust these men to tell us how to live who never met Jesus, but somehow knew he was the son of God, performed all these miracles and rose from the dead. It's ludicrous! It is so obvious we have all this confusion due to the fact that it's "Men's Ideas/Thoughts" written down and not some SUPERHERO in the sky. I'm so glad "GOD" is not a God of confusion and made his desires/laws so clear...sarcasm noted! I love to listen to Pastors/Scholars debate and say.."Well it's my view or opinion that....". Wake up people....that's all they can offer is an "OPINION" of what might be the case. You know the saying about opinions... everyone has one like ________s. Then we have the beloved F word. Faith is the SUPER-WORD that's thrown around justifying belief in something with no warrant, lacking real evidence. The funny thing is it's lifted up as the most incredible attribute a Christian can have. In any other area of life it would be considered ludicrous. If a person believed in Big Foot and when they were asked for proof only gave anecdotal evidence which was pointed out to them and when pressed into a corner finally said... "I just have faith that Big Foot exists" we would all consider them crazy, but not in Christianity! Religion causes people to check their brains at the door when it comes to common sense and accept things they normally wouldn't. Most people would never condone an earthly leader (Hitler) who commanded genocide but the God of the old testament does and what's the response from Christians....." We'll I don't understand it but if God commanded it, it must be right", or "God's ways are higher than our ways" or "Who are we to question God", or "Those nations God had the Jews slaughter were wicked"....so wicked they had to kill men, women (even pregnant women), children, animals.... COME ON... that's sick/unjustifiable! Why would I say religion causes people to "Check their brain at the door"? I know firsthand because I was a born again, sold out believer for over 40 years and fell for this nonsense until I woke up. I was so busy trying to convert others that I didn't realize I was in the same deceived boat as them....a boat with more holes than Swiss cheese, but I justified anything that didn't make sense (like O.T. genocide, O.T. slavery, eternal torment of people who didn't accept Jesus). The questions I had gnawed at me but I wasn't supposed to read or listen to anyone who wasn't a Christian (Scholar, Pastor) because they were considered "worldly and or tools of the devil". It's an us vs. them mentality. It's a great control technique to keep sheep in the pen. Thankfully, I did start to truly examine the evidence and listen to other viewpoints. It's a very difficult transition, one that I found most people aren't willing to go through. The majority of friends/family I talked with were unwilling to even consider that they might be believing something untrue. Most didn't even want to know the real reasons (you would think they would want to know why a Jesus loving sold out follower changed his mind) why I left the faith. Unfortunately most of them already made up their mind why. They think I'm "living in sin" or was angry at the Church or people at church, or that I've been led astray by listening to others the devil used to deceive me. It's so sad!!!!! The unfortunate thing is once you voice your concerns and don't tow the "party line", I found out how quickly I lost good friends and was viewed differently (as a black sheep) in my family. I'm the same person I was before (just minus belief in one more God than them) but I cant tell you how FREEING it is to no longer be held captive by archaic ideas and laws.

[@cinnamondan4984]

Yes, and the Communist Party of the Peoples’ Republic of China knows this and acts accordingly 🥊

[@behindenemylines3149]

Sounds like a Former Protestant.

[@davidburroughs7068]

Just about only time these people will argue together is in defense of their faith ... and each works to testify to their version of it - "never mind the other apologetists, those are not the apologetics you're looking for."

[@mantrikashukla5737]

Yes yes yes! I was confused and terrified for 6 years, sacrificing everything for this man made religion and it was the most anxiety inducing and depressing time of my life. “Faith” is the tool to keep you from ever questioning anything . I’m so insanely happy I’m finally free as an agnostic, and can enjoy my youth

[@rohmann000]

Man some of these gentlemen, who are, by the way, honest souls and generous debaters, are really out of their depth discussing Early Christianity with Bart

[@Resenbrink]

They aren't scholars, just people who have faith.

[@zackerythomas3675]

You said it.😂

[@jdmitchell6559]

Albrecht is listed as a "Catholic Apologist, member of the Catholic apostolate, the Catholic Legate." I.e. not just a person of faith, and certainly not in Bart's league, but I would have expected more, tbh.

[@ohiovalleyminiaturefootbal8100]

I absolutely love how Dr Ehrman shreds so easily these guys. I follow all his teachings and books and he is spot on!!

[@Pattycake1974]

That’s not even close to being true.

[@davidjrtodd]

Patty please explain how this is not close to being true. It would help if you made the point with evidence.

[@equinoxproject2284]

This is so enlightening and at the same time expected. These guys want to take only the doctrines, potential beliefs or peripheral writings from early Christianity that aligne with their bias and say, "see we had it right all along", while ignoring all of the other early sects and their beliefs that disagree with their theological system.

[@hannameijer2178]

Who masters this discussion? Right..the one who knows what he is talking about! Bart Ehrman, I respect your work deeply!

[@philipcervenjak2493]

That was a really interesting discussion. Though, I find it funny that the three Christian guys seem to be motivated in defending the doctrine of eternal torment, as if they want it to be true. While I was a Christian (now I'm an agnostic atheist), I just tried to be honest about what the Bible says about Hell, and I came to (and as an atheist still hold) the conclusion that Jesus taught annihilationism, not eternal torment.

[@gkkenobi3988]

They are catholic, so they have to believe in that doctrine.

[@cinnamondan4984]

The Bible is not a single book so it does not really say anything as a unified text in my opinion. We can just contrast different books in the anthology and in some cases juxtapose different sections of the same book (Genesis JEDP)

[@paulgemme6056]

Those who do not believe the gospel of Christ Jesus are condemned already because of their unbelief. 19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20 and there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21 and desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house: 28 for I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

[@edithdodds190]

Jesus made it plain in the rich man and Lazarus the rich man was in torments lazarus was comforted plain indeed .

[@JB.zero.zero.1]

@@cinnamondan4984 throwing it in the bin is easier

[@ubersheizer5398]

I really enjoyed this. Dr. Ehrman you have such patience.

[@kutsc3792]

@Rual why would he be killed by Muslim fanatics? If anything it would be the Christian fanatics that would go after him after the way he has mullered Christianity. The Muslims are sitting on the side line laughing and applauding batt.

[@rationalpuppet8163]

Ehrman is a champion scholar for Muslims

[@adaradar3141]

@Rual What is this got to do with Islam and Muslims. Face Dr. Ehrman and depend your man-god belief

[@dannyboy2751]

This was an excellent discussion. Bart Ehrman's depth of knowledge is impressive to say the least.

[@horsefacehorse5702]

This is priceless. The three dudes over the course of almost two hours slowly realized their belief was made up and mostly taken from Plato

[@memphisjohnnyminnesota8049]

these guys demonstrate perfectly the dunning kruger effect.

[@peterp-a-n4743]

Not sure on that. They are no ignoramuses. Seems more to be the good ol' confirmation bias at work here. People tend to find excuses for believing what they want to believe.

[@WorldCupWillie]

@@peterp-a-n4743 I agree. They're not overestimating their intelligence, they only follow the evidence that confirms their already firmly held beliefs.

[@herbertwells8757]

They are clearly wildly overestimating their literacy, their scholarship, and their audience’s interest.

[@sagebias2251]

@@herbertwells8757 I thought this was fascinating. My interest was not tested.

[@TheEFVG]

Wow. William Albrecht is quite the (intellectually) dishonest 'debater'. (If you can call someone without reasonable arguments and ready knowledge about the subject a 'debater'.) Ehrman did fine in schooling him, though. Ehrman tried so hard not to make it painful, but still, often the painfulness of Williams pet peeves came through. 25:48 William takes a text from the (non-canonical, except for Catholics) book of Judith about 'people suffering for ever', claims Mark (canonical) alludes to this image, and says he believes the early church fathers recognized the importance of this idea of 'suffering forever'. (Thus making the idea of a Jesus believing in heaven and hell plausible.) 27:12 Ehrman: not every ancient Jew believed the same thing about the afterlife. Ergo: the author of Judith might have believed in an afterlife, but Jesus might not have. (William agrees to the first point.) Intertexts between books from different eras are problematic. (William agrees, but claims Judith was canonical in early Christianity.) Ehrman jumps on that claim immediately, and the rest of the debate is mainly William trying to show that Judith was as canonical as Mark in the early church. (Thereby wiggling the 'suffering for ever' into Mark, which does not mention eternal suffering, by the way.) His argument that early christianity recognized Judith as canonical falls flat on its face time after time. (Mark alludes to Isaiah 66, not to Judith - No early churchfather says Mark alludes to Judith - Quoting Judith is not the same as recognizing the book of Judith as 'holy scripture' - Only in the 15th and 16th century, church councils recognized Judith as canonical, this has nothing to do with 1st century Mark - etc.) Instead of William turning to Isaiah 66 (that inspired both the Judith and the Mark passage), he keeps hammering on about Judith. With the passage in Isaiah he might have a faint point, but with Judith he definately doesn't. Why? I think i know why. He is a Catholic, and Catholics recognize Judith as canonical. It's his pet peeve, and he can't imagine Judith not being as important to the early church as he believes it to be. Isaiah was WAY more important to the early church, especially the passages in chapter 24. That's why both Mark AND Judith allude to Isaiah 66:24. (It looks like William didn't even realise this point before the debate. But still, he keeps going without any new arguments. And makes it painful.) Oh, and his constant "I agree, right, I agree", and in the meantime continuing to not agree or step down from his hobby horse is quite annoying. William, get your act together. It's shamefull that a "resident debater" debates so poorly. Your point went absolutely nowhere, and at times I felt sad for you, to be honest. Thanks for posting this interesting debate! I learned a lot from it, and I can't wait to read the book.

[@vejeke]

Excellent comment. Have you seen the comments section on the video they uploaded to their channel before Ehrman uploaded it here?

[@osveix]

Tbh Catholics always argue like this in these types of discussions. It’s not an exercise in honest, critical inquiry for them, but rather a desperate effort to minimise cognitive dissonance. The goal is come across as critically minded while sidestepping direct admission of dogmatism. Of course, someone like Bart can see through it immediately, and isn’t afraid to call it out.

[@gorillaguerillaDK]

It is always such a huge inspiration to listen to Bart Ehrman! I've recommended his books to my aunt, whom I've had several interresting debates with! She's a Theologian from the University of Copenhagen, and has been teaching religion, (primarily Christianity), on the Farao Islands where many of her students are deeply religious!

[@jonfromtheuk467]

what did she make of them?

[@gmac6503]

One of the Four was professional and scholarly in this video. Thank you Dr. Ehrman for your works and patience.

[@robsaxepga]

These guys stretch so much to attempt to validate their beliefs. Essentially, they're guessing and hoping that biblical passages mean what they hope they do. "We'd all be Catholic!" Lol You were incredibly generous with your time on this. Thank you, again, for your work.

[@UnimatrixOne]

If God is LOVE, how could he punish people who sin FOREVER? Makes no sense!

[@teonarunderlitzt9278]

right!

[@sigridiloveyou2008]

right!

[@brucemaddox5696]

@@sigridiloveyou2008 lol

[@thebestmedicinecomedypodca549]

I ask this a lot. The most common answer I get from believers is that God doesnt send anybody to hell, they choose to go there when they choose not to believe. My response is "But God created Hell! For a God that is supposedly loving, just, all-knowing, and forgiving.. why did he create a hell for his children??" As a former believer, I simply cant be at peace with ANY reasoning for throwing your child into a pit of fire to burn forever. I dont want to die and be wrong (a fear religion has instilled into me) so I hope to find peace in my beliefs (whatever they may be.. I cant find concrete truth) before I die.

[@rebeccaringler1265]

My daughter was a passenger and killed in August 6 yrs ago when she was almost 17. I have listened to multiple NDEs and they have similar accounts of unconditional love, life review, and many know they are sent back because they still have purpose here.

[@migueldelagos6635]

First to comment! Thanks Bart and R&T for the discussion. Very fun to listen to the engagement and the perspectives of the participants. Bart's scholarship on the history of the idea of the afterlife that developed among early Christians out of the milieu of the ancient world is impeccable. I think the R&T team would have done a little better by teasing apart the historical facts from the historical interpretations of Bart's thesis and grounded their perspective in the theological importance of the afterlife in their faith rather than quibble about very narrow passages and the possible intent of early Church fathers. I find it extremely interesting to investigate how eschatology developed over the centuries from its formulation in Roman and Eastern Catholicism, through the various protestant splinters, including Mormonism, and into modern theology. But of course, that gets beyond the remit of Bart's book and would be the topic of a different episode.

[@phillipschulz4492]

Can we re-title this video as "Hell, it doesn't exist but this this video of Judith not being Canon is the hell we fear."

[@Roy-xe9is]

I feel sorry for the big guy. He has devoted so much time and energy on something that is simply untrue. I hope he gets on the right path.

[@stevenbishop8850]

This a good Bart Ehrman video. The participants are mostly prepared and show strong conviction rather than debate tricks. A discussion with serious felt questions. Thank you.

[@Steve-hu9gw]

Two words come to mind: amateur and professional.

[@equinoxproject2284]

Agreed... there is a huge gap between a professional golfer and a really really good amateur.

[@equinoxproject2284]

34:00 William is challenging Bart with questions that in order to support his own thesis, William should know the answers to, but doesn't.

[@tonyvega3622]

William got schooled by Bart... you can see how much he’s sweating and struggling to accept Bart thoughts. Tough process to be wrong.

[@Pattycake1974]

Not.even.close.

[@danstoian7721]

Wow, this is just so great that it happened! I'm watching right now and the reason I'm so existed it's because there' an obvious big fat difference between what Dr. Ehrman's book and let's say "mainstream" Christianity (aka Catholics, Lutherans, etc.) and so having this discussion is really great! Thanks for sharing!

[@nathanjasper512]

Thank you for posting this it's wonderfully informative and I learned a lot.

[@MikeScofieldComposer]

The discussion with Michael was the most erudite. Erick and William were overmatched academically and it was somewhat painful listening to them twist themselves into knots.

[@Heretical_Theology]

The person I'd fear debating the most: Ehrman. The person I'd fear fighting the most: Albrecht.

[@InayetHadi]

Thanks for uploading

[@rustlingbushes7678]

I love this stuff! Knowledge, knowledge, nom nom!

[@AR333]

Thanks for uploading these Bart, hope you’re doing well. A few years ago you inspired me to major in New Testament studies from a historical perspective. I have been wondering for some time if you’ve revised your view which was present in your intro to the New Testament textbook, your lectures and debates and some of your books, that historians can never assess a miracle because miracles by definition are the least probable explanation? I’m an atheist, but that argument has since the 10 years I’ve heard it always struck me as tautological.

[@anrose8335]

"People started imagining" that sums up all of religion.

[@thebatman7490]

more like that sums up atheism lol

[@eurech]

@@thebatman7490 Really? Christians are the ones who believe in all sorts of science debunked things, so who is imagining here?

[@Bbarfo]

This was informative and entertaining. Once again Bart displays his superior knowledge and William learned much during this debate while enjoying his beer.

[@CB-fb5mi]

I love fascinating discussions about the Bible and early Christian history and that is why I follow Barts work. I have noticed that for some of his fans though, the primary reason they follow his career is the perception that he takes Christians down to size and 'destroys' them. I don't think that is how Bart views his scholarship at all. It seems like he does debates and discussions with conservative Christians primarily because they invite him and his is willing to engage with them, not because he is on a mission to 'destroy' conservative Christian beliefs about the Bible.

[@InJesus1]

Bart Ehrman is a world renown expert on the New Testament, and a master debater. The panel should have been warned that they'll look silly, and decidedly foolish, trying to argue with him.

[@timprickett9366]

The guy in the lower right slept all the way !

[@andybeans5790]

I took a while to work out that William was talking about the Book of Judith, not Judas. To be honest I would have loved if Bart had brought out the Greek, I think textual analysis appeals to the analyst in me, I love finding patterns and matching things up. I could have studied Greek but I wasn't focussed on anything but STEM and modern languages at school.

[@jennifer97363]

What a treat to listen to this civil, mature debate. Very cordial.

[@DarrylWhiteguitar]

These are nice fellows. They were respectful of Dr. Ehrman and weren't obnoxious. From my perspective, they engage in motivated reasoning, but that's not surprising.

[@jdmitchell6559]

"I'm happy to be proved wrong - hey that would be interesting" (Bart) :-)

[@Carelock]

Dr. Ehrman has patience that I may never gain, I believe those books on the interviewers/arguers shelves are all written by Dr. Seuss...

[@jason101other]

Albrecht really reduced the quality of this debate by stubbornly going on and on and on about some stupid point about whether or not Judith is scripture. I just wish Ehrman had just moved on. Albrecht is not listening to reason; he's completely wedded to his belief.

[@creatinechris]

Love it! Dr. Ehrman I’m gonna move to NC just to take a class from you

[@gamerknown]

"God helps those who help themselves" was quoted by Jomo Kenyatta, a curious character who interacted with Albert Meltzer on Speaker's Corner at one point. Apparently first encountered in English from the MP Algernon Sidney

[@stephenarmiger8343]

I have a friend who was raised in the Greek Orthodox tradition. He is only one man with his own personal perspective, but he frequently tells me that those raised in that tradition are not nearly as obsessed with sin and punishment. I think this book is a wonderful addition to the conversation about beliefs in Heaven and Hell. As more children are raised without Christianity, Judaism, Islam they will have the opportunity to explore religion as adults. They may come to look at human cultural evolution. When did early humans begin to develop ideas about trees having spirits? Animals having spirits, star clusters, volcanoes, floods? Early civilizations and their gods. Current civilizations and their gods. I did a Wikipedia search and learned that many, many religions have equivalents of hell. A common trope apparently.

[@juliasaunders6866]

I am a recent convert to Orthodoxy myself and he is right. When people ask me what's different about it (and so appealing that I'm prepared to deal with the Greek), I often say, "To give you one small example - if a Western Christian looks at the cross, they tend to think of death and guilt but if an Eastern Christian looks at the cross, they see a door to joy, resurrection, freedom and life

[@juliasaunders6866]

They also teach that if we spend more time on scholarship than prayer, it will tend to lead to pride and loss of faith

[@michaelwinger5480]

Dr. Ehrman is to this panel what Beatrix Kiddo was to the Crazy 88.

[@lalngaihawmachawngthu999]

Well done Dr. Ehrman👍👍... It seems like the three hosts tried their best to merely win the argument by asking unrelated questions especially William Albrecht...

[@onelove9223]

Quotations are not enough - we get it - William clearly says he agrees with you, but you need to accept that Judith was mentioned with esteemed language hence the holiness/authenticity of the quote. Why is thats so hard to understand? So, Dr. Erhamn keeps bringing up good points but he is ignoring the fact that Judith was mentioned as, specifically, holy writ.

[@jonathanmk5402]

The quote was that Judith the person was blessed not judith the book

[@peterockbx]

You cannot critique all of Christianity based on these 3 gentlemen and there understanding and interpretation of scripture. Mr. Ehrman’s contentions about scripture can be disputed. This example is not the best representation.

[@williamkay480]

6:00-11:00 Bart Erhman states that eternal punishment in the Biblical context means being totally destroyed not in a constant state of punishment. Doesnt that contradict the definition of eternal? ( enternal - adjective meaning lasting forever, without beginning or end)

[@EnglishMike]

His argument is that since annihilation is the punishment, and being in that annihilated state never ends, it is eternal punishment. A loose analogy is that it's like saying a criminal is punished by being thrown in jail. The state of being in jail continues after that single act.

[@thanjay1867]

What an impressively civil discussion between erudite gentlemen with wildly different views on the Bible. This is the kind of discourse we need in days of Red vs. Blue.

[@billyhw5492]

32:00 Just copypasted from Wiki: "The First Epistle of Clement (c. AD 96)[6] was copied and widely read and is generally considered to be the oldest Christian epistle in existence outside of the New Testament. The letter is extremely lengthy, twice as long as the Epistle to the Hebrews,[note 5] and it demonstrates the author's familiarity with many books of both the Old Testament and New Testament. The epistle repeatedly refers to the Old Testament as scripture[7] and includes numerous references to the Book of Judith, thereby establishing usage or at least familiarity with Judith in his time."

[@Iamwrongbut]

I think Bart acknowledges that, but his point is that just because someone references to or quotes from something does not mean that person thinks the book is inspired or part of the canon.

[@kihntagious]

Albrecht was bound and determined to sound as knowledgable as Dr Ehrman and he just sounds like a fool.

[@MrSpacejase]

Poor Erick fell asleep

[@oliver9568]

Tough questions (not for Bart), but also illuminating answers. Like cleaninng a very dirty window.

[@yehoshuaisgod8998]

Elijah did die. When the Bible states Heaven, in this context, it's referring the 1st heaven, the atmosphere. He was translated to another place on earth. several years after Elijah’s removal, Jehoram received a letter from Elijah warning the king of dire consequences because of his sins. This letter is recorded in 2 Chronicles 21:12-15. Enoch also died, Hebrews 11:13, Enoch is included in this chapter.

[@MGHarris]

Was Judith in the Septuagint to which the author of Mark would have had access? I understood that original Septuagint (translated allegedly by the 70 rabbis) didn't have all the books of the Old Testament, and that many were later translated by Christians starting with Origen.

[@Oldmaster51]

Bart is a very patience person. Lol

[@robbiebobbie2011]

Thank you for presenting truth Dr Ehrman

[@bigboy9983]

You can read whatever you want into the bible. Why would you then waste your time trying to interpret it?

[@susansteinkraus7611]

I enjoyed this discussion, but why do believers never step back and think about why God wouldn't provide a clear, easy to understand book? Why do we have to translate, interpret and reinterpret scripture? Why is it not abundantly clear to everyone?

[@billkeon880]

I love it when fundamentalist folk who consider themselves as authorities get schooled and start to question a little bit

[@maureenoconnor4430]

Bart great stuff but too much time on Judith I lost interest

[@stevendubberly8106]

Gee......The Jehovah Witnesses have been preaching Bart's position for decades. Maybe they are right about the false Trinity dogma also.

[@AstariahJW]

Why you think we preaching door to door , jehovah wants people saved and to get out of false religion that teach false bieliefs

[@verpeiler089]

But apart from Bart, they are full of shit.. and dangerous.

[@ibji]

So the one guy that doesn't have a bookshelf behind him, I wonder where he stands on this issue?

[@Pattycake1974]

Well he’s totally disqualified at this point. No bookshelf!

[@theunapologeticjew]

Man this guy is irritating. What does Judith have to do with Dr Ehrman’s book? He needs to arrange a personal debate, not that I’d listen

[@Stinukli]

Question! Why is everyone ignoring the rich man and Lazarus?

[@Ploskkky]

The immense knowledge of Ehrman pulverizes all opposition. If I was an apologist I would never even try to debate Ehrman. I would hurry out of the room and hide in a closet. I like the conversational tone of this video. Conversations are nicer to listen to than debates. The apologists really seem to love the idea of eternal torment. They really want it to be true. The reason I think is obvious. Clergy/apologists need the threat of eternal torture to keep the flock in their power, obedient and submissive. It is a tool for control. Albrecht especially comes across as quite irrational and unscholarly concerning Judith. He so wants his preferred outcome, that he twists everything to make it look true. I am glad Ehrman protests so strongly.

[@darrelgustafson2507]

1:07. Blocking out what we've been told and what we already believe about the bible. Just analyzing what it actually says. It's what lawyers mean when they use the term " 4 corners rule " in contract law. It's what's on the contract within the 4 corners of the page that has weight in the legal balance. What Freddie and Joe talked about or assumed has no bearing if there's a legal dispute. What you're priest or pastor said was in the book may be their interpretation, opinion, or even wish. Gotta read it yourself.

[@tedgrant2]

Somebody said that the god of Israel was unique to the children of Israel. But I don't recall who said it.

[@LamboEv]

I bought his book on amazon and should've done my research before...

[@jeffersonianideal8772]

Heaven and Hell are Christianity’s door prizes for being a sporting contestant. Congregants can decide which reward is a consolation prize and which is a gag gift.

[@InayetHadi]

At 16:16 Bart mentions a scholar named, "Patheist" who was an "akealist" can anyone provide correct spelling of his name and brand of christianity? It would be interesting to learn more about that. Alas google was no help

[@juliasaunders6866]

Try chiliast

[@ZulfiquarAli1290]

The Heaven and Hell is made to show Justice.

[@shaduck06]

this is wonderful!

[@yehoshuaisgod8998]

Elijah is dead. In context he was caught up to the 1st heaven (atmosphere) & translated somewhere else on earth. Do the research, several years after he was translated he wrote a letter to king Jehoram 2 Chronicles 21:12-15. Enoch is dead too, Hebrews 11:13, Enoch is included in this verse.

[@angelicazambrano]

Why would Jesus say about Judus after he kisses him "he will wish he was not born" bearing in mind Judus hanged himself while Jesus was said to be crucified, it seems to me Judus was facing something worse than a hanging, like hell,

[@Cruz8R]

Jesus did not say "he will wish he was not born". Who told you that?

[@Kharmazov]

Except in other version he buy a field starts cultivating it and then his guts burst. So much for consistency.

[@sassysandygirl]

The guy asking the questions doesn't seem to understand that the timelines of when things where writen matters ..lol .. good job Bart❤

[@equinoxproject2284]

The gospels were written at different times by different authors to different communities for different reasons. Members of those communities might rightly have call communities using other gospels heretics.

[@shawndurham297]

I feel bad for the Catholic guy. LOL

[@naturalisted1714]

As long as there's sources of consciousness (sentient beings) in the universe, there will be yet another experience of consciousness after this source of consciousness ends. Don't forget, you're made of the same stuff as everything else, and so you *are* the universe. There is only the universe.

[@dibble2005]

I still find it annoying the way people refer to a text that has no credible truth. You can't just read a text without asking who said it and why. I am a Christian by the way and guess what I too love Ehrman because I am interested in truth. I am interested in what Jesus said and what he meant. These other two guys are clueless.

[@yehoshuaisgod8998]

Yes, the rich man & Lazarus is a parable, not a true story, the point of the parable is in verse 31.

[@GA-hg4ov]

To me it looks like somebody is editing out the comments to show only all comments supporting Ehrman . No way all the comments will only pay him glowing accolades. The other guys too throw up Really good points and make their case we'll too .

[@rayjr96]

That was fantastic

[@aradia.highwind]

In terms of Revelation, have you read "Revelation: Vision, Prophecy, & Politics in the book of Revelation" by Elaine Pagels? If so, do you find it trustworthy or legitimate in terms of research?

[@virgilblack7022]

I'm curious who are the real Jews of the bible?

[@quantumrobin4627]

We should all be glad these stories aren’t true, if you accept Christianity for the happy things, you must accept a whole lotta disgusting, human rights violating, downright sadistic crap.

[@wesleygordon1645]

Your problem is that you only want them not to be true.Lets say Christians are wrong in their beliefs!What do they have to lose? Answer=NOTHING! What do you have to lose with all your hatred & willfull blindness to the truth?Answer=EVERYTHING !

[@leamJG]

@@wesleygordon1645 Pascal's Wager.

[@incredulouspasta3304]

@@wesleygordon1645 What if you are wrong about your belief in Christianity, and there's _actually_ a god who punishes you based on whether you believe in false religions for bad reasons? And what if the hell that this god sends you to is twice as bad as the Christian hell? What do you have to lose? Answer = EVERYTHING! Pascal's Wager is silly. Empty threats get us nowhere.

[@quantumrobin4627]

Wesley Gordon I was an evangelical for 35 years, I wanted nothing but Christianity to be true, but I decided to actually learn the facts, demonstrable facts, not what they tell us in Sunday school, not the glossed over half truths and flat out misrepresentation that most Christians believe today, I’m talking reality, not the indoctrination you are a victim of.

[@quantumrobin4627]

Wesley Gordon Btw, there are 10,000 other gods in our ignorant history that could send you to their hell if you don’t believe their childish bullshit stories....so what do you have to lose? A lot more than you think if you follow your dumbass trope to its logical conclusion, thousands of other gods have had millions of other dimwits swearing they are real, just as passionate as you, you are just one oil slick on an endless road of ignorant ancestors myths.

[@clausjuergenwalde7251]

It’s better to be alive with just one hand or one eye than to have the whole body end up in Gehenna. The word play works well if Gehenna is a place of destruction.

[@harryhagman6063]

WHO IS THE DESIGNER OF GEHENNA'S HELL?

[@johnd.hathcoat9223]

Wow...some of these people questioning Bart are ridiculous. 1:27 is a bad example....it is a waste of time to talk to people like this. I appreciate your patience Bart.

[@azopene]

This fellow makes all kind of sense. How could a God of love and mercy allow the eternal fire torture of any feeling creature? I wonder if he realizes he is exactly in line with Jehovahs Witnesses teachings.

[@omnipitous4648]

The first guy was worth talking to. The other two were pretenders.

[@Oldmaster51]

I wonder if at the end of every holy book it acknowledged that it’s fiction, would believers ignore that and continue to believe?

[@danielwhitby6660]

This guy is doing a great Job giving his personal opinion however you have to realize he is not using bible chapter and verse to say what he is saying

[@Martial-Mat]

Look at all my books. I must be smart :-/