Redbrands are people too! | Lost Mine of Phandelver Campaign Guide

[@LunchBreakHeroes]

What unique things did you do with the Redbrands in chapter 2 of Lost Mine of Phandelver? Leave a comment below to let us know!

[@TheTookinator]

I was DMing for my wife and nephew, and my nephew had taken the rogue from the starter kit, whose background says that he was a member of the Redbrands before someone accused him of something and he had to get out of town. In the goblin ambush, he rolled horribly every single time and only managed to hit one goblin. He was pretty good-natured about it, though, and just joked that he had gotten horrible training with the Redbrands. When they got to town and eventually got attacked by the gang, they weirdly had the same luck he had been having. They just could NOT hit the PCs. After the fight was over, we joked about the weird coincidence, and he said "well, it makes sense - they got the same training I did!" :D

[@LunchBreakHeroes]

That actually gave me a good chuckle!

[@aaronwebb1548]

That's just perfect

[@thecruxofthecross5107]

Storm trooper aim

[@madjarov42]

I'm running this for the first time and I had this EXACT idea. Harbin has already hinted that the Orcs are a problem. The Wyvern Tor description says the orcs have spies. So after the Redbrands are gone, and the players are dealing with Glasstaff, they come back to see Gog smashing down the Town Hall door. Harbin makes a narrow escape after Edermath, Halia, and Sildar (and Reidoth?) help the characters deal with the orcs.

[@andydamato5357]

So many good ideas!! I loved all of this!! Makes me want to re-run the Lost Mines again. When my party first got there, I had changed the kidnapped family (Mirna and her kids) to be the Town Master's family kidnapped by Glasstaff to keep him in line. I made him less of the weak Town Master and more of a man for the people, and everyone in Phandalin respected him too much to get involved and risk harm to his family. This allowed the Redbrand to operate in town with little to no consequence. The players knew they had to deal with the gang, but if they openly fought them in the streets or brazenly kicked the doors open to their hideout, they risk the Redbrands murdering Harbin's family. They were forced to "deal" with the gang's BS until they learned enough about the back entrance and then they had to use subtly to find out where the family was hidden, get them out, then deal with the gang once and for all. Afterwards they were tasked with keeping the town protected from both the threats in the surrounding area and also from any remaining Redbrand who might want to seek vengeance (Or Nazzara herself.. oh yeah I mad him a her in my game!). Good times!!

[@wh3nderson95]

One thing I did was change the name of the Redbrands to Demon Rats. That is because several members are actually Wererats. (It's a way to mix up the adventure and to let me use a monster outside of dungeons and sewers). This is more of change for the sake of it. Surprised the heck out of the metagamer players in one group. Another idea I had was changing the Redbrands into the Crimson Vipers. It will turn out that Glass Staff is actually a Yuan-Ti pureblood agent attempting to find the forge then use it to construct magical weapons for his brethren. Since Yuan-Ti do not see cowardice as a trait of weakness. This would explain why he is so eager to lie and run away at the Redbrand Hideout. (Essentially swapping the Black Spider motivation with Glass Staff). Another idea I had was the Redbrands was revealed to be Zhentarim operation that went rogue upon a pact with the Black Spider. A new Zhentarim agent is in the town and wants the party to remove them so they can set up a different operation. (The Zhentarim big wigs will only care about Phandalin until the magical mine has been secured). As to arrange protection for the town. The next best thing I can do is this. -The players go back to Neverwinter to convince Lord Neverember to induct Phandalin into his governance. (He does not, until the Green dragon has been removed from the ash town). -Ask the Harpers to send a force to help the town. (This would mean installing a different mayor). -Make a case to a Dwarf Fortress to send troops to reclaim Phandalin and use the forge again to honor their fallen brethren.

[@hannessteffenhagen61]

It's an interesting concept and certainly makes sense IU; But I wouldn't do this in my campaign for didactic reasons, because it teaches them: 1. Having survivors is bad (effectively punished for not reneging on their deal with the goblin) (which I'd consider to be a bad lesson) 2. Having a straight forward solution to a quest is going to lead to bad results in the future (which I'd also consider not a good lesson, unless it was telegraphed somehow) 3. On the other hand, teaching them that their actions can have lasting consequences in the world is a good thing (although again, I wouldn't make it quite this extreme) but that's just me speaking from the perspective of someone running LMoP for people completely new to RPGs.

[@mahamadkader488]

How does it teach them that having survivors is bad? If you kill all the redbrands you get punished for leaving the goblin alive.

[@Koshak87]

Mahamad Kader cause the most simple answer is that they should’ve killed both redbrands and the goblin. Murder hobos ftw?))

[@Das0s]

Love this series & channel. I'm running this for the first time with my Mum, Dad and Sister and it's the best thing ever. I had Hallia Thornton incentivise them to not murder any of the RBs and most of the players were on board. One was running the Dwarf Cleric pre-made (my mother!) who had a history and a grudge against the RBs however, and when we first got in to combat in the Manor, her hammer started exploding heads. Caused an amazing in-character discussion between the PCs as they had just lost out on their ridiculous reward offered by Hallia Thornton. I had a lot of the same thoughts as you regarding the defence of the town/purpose of the RBs. Fortunately the PCs only killed 2 of the RBs and convinced Darran Edermath to take charge of/reform them. They somehow managed to also convince Glasstaff to continue working in the Manor. Glasstaff wants access to the Forge of Spells and has no allegiance to the Black Spider (but he's playing both sides at the moment). Harbin Wester is dead at the bottom of the Nothic cave, with a Doppleganger taking his place. The Doppleganger keeps an eye on Glasstaff and communicates with the Black Spider, who thinks Glasstaff is still working for him. A reformed Redbrand militia, a wizard and a hardened warrior from the dragon coast now head up the defence of the city! This has gone really well for the PCs as I had always planned to implement 'the siege of phandalin' which is a great homebrew you can find on google - with the Orcs of Wyvern Tor acting as a forward party to attack Phandalin. Can't wait for our next session tomorrow in which this will all play out. Glasstaff will have to finally pick a side as the Orcs attack and Harbin comes running to him seeking advice. Will the PCs convince him or will he side with the Black Spider?

[@LunchBreakHeroes]

Sounds like you had an amazing time! I hope your siege goes well.

[@SpectreWulf]

Gonna start LMoP in a week or two and I am so glad I crashed into your channel!

[@LunchBreakHeroes]

Thank you! I'm glad you crashed here to, and that you're finding the videos useful!

[@HowtoRPG]

I really like the ideas you present.

[@LunchBreakHeroes]

Thank you!

[@brianbrock6774]

me too!

[@evilkibbles2321]

I love these videos. I’m excited to use your advice for my own campaigns

[@cfmgomes]

really good perspective I have with this video, thanks

[@LunchBreakHeroes]

Glad it was helpful!

[@therandomninja5]

Yeemik is still alive in my campaign as well. The party knocked him out with a sleep spell and tied him up and seemed like they were going to use him to “bargain” with Klarg, but the encounter went pear shaped fast and they left Yeemik in the twin pools cave unattended as they chased after Klarg - who died when the party released both dams and was flushed out of the cave. As they looted Klarg’s cave another goblin untied Yeemik and the 2 escaped. I’m trying to figure out how to reintroduce them. I’m thinking either in Cragmaw Castle or now (thanks to this) maybe Yeemik gathers a bunch of other goblins from the hills who are tired of Black Spider and the bugbears and form a larger raiding party and attack the town!

[@LunchBreakHeroes]

Sounds like a plan! Let me know how it goes.

[@samurairob5299]

Halia has tricked my players into killing Glasstaff and looking for information that the townmaster might be working with the Redbrands (he is because he has been replaced by one of the spider's doppelgangers). Once the deal with him for her and leave town, Halia will make her move to take control of the town. When they return, Halia will be in charge with the remaining members of the Redbrands, now renamed the Blue Cloaks, working for her as her enforcers. They have no idea they are now secretly working for the Zhentarim. They fell for her scheme completely!

[@LunchBreakHeroes]

Muahahaha!

[@christopherjustice6411]

In my run-through, I used the Redbrands as an excuse to go kill the orcs. The idea was that the people of Phandalin put up with the Redbrands because for better or worse, they acted as a paramilitary group that could defend the town from an orc attack. Once the characters take out the Redbrands, a power vacuum forms forcing them to launch a preemptive strike on the orcs.

[@MaelikWorks]

I didn't do much of unique things with "my" redbrands, mostly because it was one of the first games I DMed. So, in that game, they were not locals. They were just bunch of mercenaries that conviniently showed up when things started to go downhill in the Phendelin area. The mayor hired them to protect the city, which kinda backfired when the group found out the mayor is weak, and can be intimidated easily. Since then, they have more or less free reign over Phendelin. They never were nice people, but when they found out they can do whatever they want, they started doing exactly that, meaning the effective safety of the town got even worse, as it's now controlled by bunch of power-drunk mercenaries who don't even do their job properly. Yes, it's nothing that much unique, but at least it's bit more thought poured into the Phendelin town backstory then the module creators did.

[@LunchBreakHeroes]

That sounds fantastic--it's definitely a lot more backstory than what the module gives them. Instead of just being "there", a hired band of mercs has a lot of plausibility to it.

[@christopherhaugenart7461]

Im going with your idea because it’s solid makes sense and I haven’t DM’d in years.

[@cfrankum83]

I'm running Glasstaff as an investigative type wizard and he knows about the dopplegangers (of which I've been sprinkling them in early). He's not working for the Spider by choice, but rather he suspects the Spider is involved, but can't make the connection. He's "running" the Redbrands as kind of a brute squad. The Redbrands get over zealous in their methods, which is why they are considered a nuisance, but I like your comment of that they "are" the militia/ town guard. I'll have to see how the PCs react to the town condemning them if they disband the Redbrands.

[@makingapoint]

I wanted the redbrands to function liek you mentioned mafia savekeepers of the town. But my players killed them after taking care of the orcs. And kill every evil they hear about even going as far as running in the woods in circles trying to find a single lone goblin because surely there must be one more since they heard some sound in the bushes. I had droop mention the amount of goblins roughly and they took the number as fact and started tracking down all the patrols.

[@Schilani]

Well to be fair, when you have goblins going into an area but not getting back, that is quite the example for other goblins to not get close to that town!

[@archlittle6067]

How about a "Kill No Humanoids" (KNH) run? After rescuing Sildar, he thanks the party, but explains that they should join the Lord's Alliance. However, the LA are not judge, jury and executioners. Evil monsters must be stopped, but their humanoid agents should be shown mercy. The game offers the "knocking a creature out" option. Wrong-doers should be brought to justice, not slain. This might grant a lot of worthy inspiration.

[@LunchBreakHeroes]

That sounds like a really fun idea.

[@hannessteffenhagen61]

There's a problem with this though - the whole mess with the Redbrands came about in the first place because Phandalin does not have the resources to sustain an effective law enforcement system; Certainly not anything equipped to deal with a whole band of brigands, murderers, slavers and conspirators against the town - all of which they _are_ . You'd have to seriously rework either the structure of Phandalin to actually _have_ a working justice system or the activities of the Redbrands to make them less of a menace to make this work.

[@paulcoy9060]

My players killed them all, except for the two youngest Redbrands who became disciples of the monk character. And Glasstaff escaped from under their noses via secret door.

[@Belegor]

The comment section here is a true goldmine, tons of great ideas.

[@DryTEKGI]

I wish I could retcon some of this into my campaign.. maybe I will.

[@HBookbinderGM]

I used the militia idea. Then I made Thel Dendrar s local who wanted to leave the Redbrands. The Redbrands kidnap him and his family to set an example. That’s who they find in the cells. Except Thel is still Nothic food. Thel is now a Doppelgänger. - this all was inspired by your initial suggestion to have a militia and my practice of removing the hint of sexual violence whenever possible ie Redbrands harassing the woodworkers wife

[@joshu6084]

I was DMing with a group of 12 year olds and when they went to the taproom I ran the redbrand encounter. They taunted each other for a while and the players killed all but one. Surprising for the rogue (since his background is a criminal and he wants revenge on the red brands) he was merciful and put him in the town jail cell. The group were at the mouth of the hideout when the rogue went back to town and grabbed the ruffian in jail. He persuaded him to help them and be part of the group. He would also get a fair share of the loot. The rebrand led and helped them through the whole campaign and I let it slide because it is more than a hack and slash video game.

[@Skarnet1]

My players have a forge cleric, whom asked me, if slavery was alive in the world of neverwinter and Faerun - so they figured, lets either get Harbin Wester and Sildar to offer them death sentence or slavery - if they choose slavery, sell them to Neverwinter and get more reliable (less likely to backstab) slaves to help the town. I thought it was cool :)

[@LunchBreakHeroes]

Excellent way to think outside the box--I love the dark turn of selling them into slavery. >:-D

[@itaykerensm1629]

My players got TPKed in cragmaw hideout, so i had klarg sell them to glasstaff, they woke up with no equipment other than light armor, and had to break out of the slave pens! They left the other slaves in the cages though, so when they came back there were a lot more corpses in the nothic ravine. Also due to their fear of the nothic, (kinda hard to deal with unarmed) they came back the next day found Glasstaff's hidden tunnel, killed him, killed the nothic got their stuff back and booked it. Now one of my players became a zhent and i showed him (by having him aid her) that haila has the Redbrands rob any travelers who dont pay for zhent mercs to accompany them.

[@LunchBreakHeroes]

oooh, how'd they react to being one of the "baddies"?

[@itaykerensm1629]

@@LunchBreakHeroes he was super confused at first, but i think he liked it, he wanted to play a greedy character so benefiting from others misfortune is up his alley. (He is playing a dwarven underdark land druid)

[@SecularMentat]

I had trouble with Phandalin because I only had two players that just wanted to get to hack and slash as fast as possible. I think in a more adult group it would have been easier to take this approach. That said, I think if I were to run it again I'd attempt to humanize the redbrands more.

[@XpVersusVista]

to be honest the whole adventure is just really bad. The redbrands have no motive and what they are doing is just stupid and unrealistic. Do they think they can hold a village captive with nobody killing them sooner or later? Brigands occupying a village did happen in history, but only during war times, simply because said country usually couldn't spare the soldiers to defend small remote villages. In peacetime occupying a village would be suicide.

[@jbaidley]

Despite GMing for years, I was still pretty shocked with how casually my PCs murdered their way through the Redbrands on what weren't the strongest of grounds - sure, they pushed some townsfolk around, and now you're going to slaughter them all? Really? And promise their dead bodies to the Nothic. Wow. What they didn't do is mop up the Redbrands who weren't in the Manor, so when they returned from Thundertree I had them meet up with the re-styled "Halia's Redbrands" who had positioned themselves as Town Defenders - funded from a new tax.

[@LunchBreakHeroes]

Niiice

[@joefill6640]

Hmm this is a pretty cool idea, but, my group I am DMing for killed a few redbrands, started a riot and imprisoned the mayor, and are currently talking their way past ALL the encounters in the redbrands base

[@mahamadkader488]

The first time I played the Lmop as a player I recruited most of the Redbrands, for my vendetta against Orcs. They turned out to be pretty useless

[@LunchBreakHeroes]

That's too bad!

[@mahamadkader488]

@@LunchBreakHeroes yea, but the Nothic was of great help. I kept him in the cave and kept him fed, promising he could have the greatest feast of his life soon. An orc feast. Fun times

[@barker262]

Dear LBH, You've made a few vids where you mention time pressure encounters, similar to the skill challenge video I suppose, but I'm curious as to how you simulate the clock running down? I really like the idea and have tried it myself a few times. Just to give you another video idea (as if you've got nothing better to do - which you don't), do you run an episode 0 for your players? I don't really know what that means, I assume it's the PC meeting for the 'first time' or more of a 'tell me how you got here' for the PC's themselve. I've seen other vids with that title, but haven't watched any. I think you can guess the reason. Cheers.

[@LunchBreakHeroes]

Hi there! I can't remember where I mentioned time pressures, to be honest. But if you want to add a time pressure, it's usually in the form of a consequence that happens if the party fails to act in a certain number of rounds (combat), or a certain number of days (non-combat). For example, my party recently went up against the druids of Yester Hill in Curse of Strahd, and needed to stop their summoning ritual within 7 rounds of combat. They failed that, and a Tree Blight was summoned, and began to rampage northward. They then had to clean up the rest of the druids on the hill, and then loped off after the tree blight. What you're talking about is referred to as "Session 0", and it's where you all sit down together and discuss what sort of adventure you want to have. Is it homebrew or a module? Is the tone serious, funny, dark? High fantasy or low fantasy? Etc. etc. There's a myriad of ways to run it--I have a sitdown conversation with maybe some character building, and others run it as a sort of playtest where the players get run through some sample encounters for the world.

[@barker262]

@@LunchBreakHeroes Thanks for the reply mate, been AFK. Regarding the Session 0 I thought that it might be a formal version of 'you meet at the inn.' I did a dice version of the 'Raiders of the lost ark' drinking game for one of my players in there 'meeting'. Wish I knew about your skill test thing when I did it. It went pretty well as a dice rolling contest with each loss leading you closer to being under the table.

[@stuartfarrell6729]

my party killed them all off ugg

[@DrAndrewJBlack]

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