ESN to Single Hand Spey // Near Instant System to Change Strategies

[@milankrezner3491]

I love your trout spey videos and watch them over and over again. I wish you had a video of the streamers and how tied.

[@redsflyshop]

Thanks so much, I do like to tie but our shop is focused on gear unfortunately not tying materials so I stick to reviewing hardware. We need a bigger warehouse so we can stock materials too. Someday.

[@Avicados]

I literally brought this up in one of your videos a year or two ago. :D

[@TechAssuranceATL]

Joe, thanks for your in-depth videos. Just bought my Skwala Carbon waders and some RepYourWater socks from you all a few weeks back and loving them.

[@redsflyshop]

Glad you like them! Thanks for the order. On the Carbon waders I like a set of long johns as my base, thin for the win on that wader model. You'll feel like you're wearing your favorite hiking pants.

[@TechAssuranceATL]

That’s exactly what I do…wear some 250 Smart Wool now and feels exactly like wearing a pair of hiking pants…even had to layer up this past weekend in Western Carolina, and was super comfy in 23 degree weather

[@ybbobmurphy]

So glad I just bought this setup from y'all! I live in the Himalayas right now though, and so I'm waiting for a friend to bring the setup to me. I am beyond excited.

[@redsflyshop]

Oh that is so cool, I have used it before but never done a decent "Fishalong" video with it. Thanks for the order, so appreciated!

[@keng9064]

Great video Joe. Really enjoy it

[@redsflyshop]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@pierevojzola9737]

Hi, great presentation and explanation. Just make sure that your viewer’s understand that you are advising for your local stretch of water. I have just come back after fishing the upper Tongariro river using the swing method on downriver and the nymph technique fishing upriver. This covers the water thoroughly from head to tail, but I have to use two different rods and lines to do this. Since we had an influx of European anglers who have been fishing the world tournaments; the Local Authorities have had to change our regulations on our legal tackle for catching trout. I have seen American visitors caught out because they assume that what they are use to is legal everywhere. We have to buy only two licences to fish the whole country, but you have to adapt to local regulations. The specifics on Euro rigs in Taupo is very exacting in type and measurement of length and material. Be warned! The Rangers are very polite and friendly but carry a big stick! Enjoy watching you on the river, you are a great angler. Cheers mate. Harera

[@Nik-gh6gz]

Where are you from? I’ve never heard of those rivers. Im surprised your authorities choose to regulate fishing techniques because they deemed European style nymphing too effective I assume? Or was it for another reason like preventing snagging / flossing fish?

[@pierevojzola9737]

@@Nik-gh6gzHi, I am fortunate to live in what Zane Grey the great American author and angler called The Anglers Eldorado! We call it Aotearoa or in English New Zealand. Our brown trout came from Scotland and our Steelheads from the Russian River in California and our Salmon are the Pacific Salmon from the North Pacific. We just need two licences to fish all of our rivers and lakes. We have a law that states that we have a right of The Queens Chain on all rivers that means we can legally step on any bank so designated up to a length of 22 feet from the edge of the water. Fishing for trout and salmon is considered “sport fishing” and originates from England where the regulations were enacted that one has to have a gentleman’s approach and not try to cheat. The act of catching a fish on the natural is the target. If you allow straight out Euro Nymphing without regulation you would not need a fly casting line. In fact all you need is a pole, thinnest line, split shot and a fly blob. Whilst to angle for a trout you need a reel, a rod, a casting line, a tippet and a imitation fly tied on a hook. Our system works for the grater good of all anglers. The problem for us is that there is not sufficient food for the fish, not that there are not enough of them. We have been told in the Taupo fishery to kill all fish we catch as there is too much stock for the amount of food for the trout in Lake Taupo to sustain them. As to where is Lake Taupo, well it’s on the volcanic plateau of the central part of the North Island of New Zealand in the Southern Pacific. Fishing licence for foreigners for both islands would cost you NZ$380! I think thats good value, don’t you? Cheers mate. Harera

[@Nik-gh6gz]

@@pierevojzola9737 wow thank you for the detailed reply! That makes more sense. I’m from California right by the Russian river but fishing New Zealand is certainly on my bucket-list. Fishing for trout inland in rivers and streams and maybe yellowtail kingfish in the ocean

[@pierevojzola9737]

@@Nik-gh6gzHi Nick. The fishing here is second to none. I have worked in 38 countries and this is the best. There are no dangerous animals or snakes to worry about. What you need is time and lots of learning. I have caught beautiful marlin, GT’s, tuna, Kahawai and snapper of the east coast, brown trout (as well as huge 20 + lbs salmon in the canals )and salmon in the the South Island and of course big trout up here in the central North Island. The lucky blokes were the ones who got stuck here during the Covid shutdown and had to spend the year fishing and hunting. Cheers mate. Harera

[@Nik-gh6gz]

@@pierevojzola9737 sounds great! Cheers!

[@lanehoeller4982]

Great video Joe! Glad you produced another video on this versatile yet economical setup. So I've got two T&T's Contact II, the 10' 2wt and the 10'9" 3wt but I don't have a setup for two handed trout spey. Looking at the newer options available on the market, I came across the new Winston air 2 microspey 10'9" 2wt and it's a very intriguing rod to say the least and not many dealers carry it yet based on my research (Reds does!) and there is only one review I've found on KZbin that wasn't done by someone at Winston. I enjoy throwing small streamers and soft hackles so it seems to me to be a possible fit in my quiver. I would LOVE to see a review on the new Winston air 2 microspey 10'9" 2wt as it seems like it would be really fun to fish, I also wouldn't put it past this rod to bring in nice sized trout as it has the Boron butt section so to me this rod seems to have a lot of possibilities with it being a 2wt spey rod with the new air 2 technology from Winston. I would assume for new trout spey anglers the recommendation is a 3wt or 4wt rod but the 2wt just seems like it would be really fun to fight trout on.

[@redsflyshop]

Thanks for the nice comment, I'll have to go test drive that 2109 - we do sell that rod. For what you described that sounds like a very fun rod to fish and cast.

[@lanehoeller4982]

Caved in and purchased from @@redsflyshop

[@davidmthorpe]

Thanks, awesome concept and video! I was wondering if I could swap the Rio Slick Shooter running line with one of the Rio (or any other brand) Euro Nymphing lines?

[@redsflyshop]

You can... but the problem is that these heads are so light they might not carry much distance with a "traditional type fly line" even its micro. If you already have a FIPS line or similar, give it a shot. You won't get big distance but that isn't all that important.

[@helok9]

Here’s my setup and it’s extremely versatile and works great. 1. Hardy ultralite ll, 10’8” 3wt 2. Redington tilt with a 3wt, dbl taper floating line with 25’ 5x mono leader incl sighter and desired tippet length for euro nymphing. 3. If a hatch pops off, I take my euro leader off and switch to a regular 9’ leader and tippet of desired length for dry fly fishing. 4. Spare spool with a Rio single hand spey line with a sinking versatip leader and desired tippet length to swing streamers.

[@redsflyshop]

Very nice! Good plan, well organized. Does the Single Spey line shoot a bugger pretty well or is it more of a static, pickup and lay down shot with minimal shooting?

[@wjb442]

Thank you for this excellent video and thorough description / links. May I ask; would this set-up be applicable to a 3100 Sage ESN / Galvan GEN 3.7?

[@redsflyshop]

You bet, get the 150 grain OPST head for that rod - start with no more than a 10' tip max 80 grains. Not sure what you have a for a "fly line" but if you are using mono like the RIO Slick Shooter 25# your Euro line becomes your shooting line. Rod/reel are just great. Be careful with the tip on that rod, it's not necessarily made for slinging tips but will do it. Just don't abuse it.

[@donstieler6732]

Great video as always Joe! A bit more information on the ESN leader you were using. Were you attaching the sighter to the 25# slick shooter running line directly with a loop knot, or did you have a length of leader between the sighter and the running line? I didn't quite understand. Thanks so much!

[@redsflyshop]

Great question. I simply take 1X Sighter Material and "loop to loop" it directly to the 25# Slick Shooter. I use about 3' of that, about 5' of tippet or so. I like a Tippet Ring at the end of the sighter (typical), but have also been using the smallest RIO for my (2) fly junction.

[@davidjackson8880]

Great video Joe. Quick question: Are you running any backing behind the mono line?

[@redsflyshop]

Good question, yes I am, full spool of backing like normal.

[@milanbogdanovic6120]

Another awesome video, Joe! Please note: I have the TNT 10’9” three-way with a Galvin GE 3.7 reel and Rios technical euro nymphing line with a 3X sighter and tippet that I bought from Reds. It is currently set up with a dedicated euro rig I mentioned in the previous sentence, which was recommended by your shop and has worked awesome in that capacity. Question: Do you think the TNT 10‘9“ can handle a Spey rig set up with a Skagit line Similar to your set up in the video, or is the my TNT rod too delicate and flexible and that’s not able to handle a Skagit line?

[@redsflyshop]

I've done it with my T and T rods, even the 2 Weight is good with a 150 grain head. As you said, that is a light tip on those rods. Be careful with it, start slow and make sure your power transitions are smooth and subtle. I've never broken a Euro rod doing this (tested quite a few), but the Beulah just sends it in comparison to others so it's my choice for a hybrid rod.

[@SouthMend]

Finally found a video of an extremely versatile setup! Would this translate over to a heavier wt rod or is this for more lighter wt setups? More specifically, thinking about running this setup on the 8wt 10’ TFO LK Legacy. If so, what mono/head grain would you recommend for my rod? I mostly fish for big Lake run rainbows out of Erie/Ontario but will be occasionally going for Chinooks and smallmouth. Thanks for this video and I’ll definitely be checking out the website!

[@redsflyshop]

You can use a Skagit head on just about any rod, but it won't be a "tight line" or ESN style rod or presentation. That delicate working is really reserved for rods that are purpose built for light line, tight line.

[@SouthMend]

@@redsflyshop Gotcha, thanks for the reply! I’ll need to pick up a lighter wt rod to run this type of setup then. Still a super cool concept.

[@anthonyb1661]

Thanks, Joe. How about the TFO drift for both of those techniques?

[@redsflyshop]

That would work, I tried their "Drift Rod" but didn't feel it had nearly the touch.

[@anthonyb1661]

@@redsflyshop got it. Thanks

[@self-taught_angler]

Very nice illustration. It was fun to watch. You said you are using 15ft T8 tip. Since you said it is 80 grains, I am guessing it is a versileader/polyleader tip. If so, you practically converted your skagit head to a scandi system. I guess from your wading to the middle of the water, the river is not that deep. With a big swing like that how often do you catch the bottom? Is cleaning the green from the hook a frequent problem? Thank you.

[@redsflyshop]

Great question, I was using a 15' T-8 which is actually 120 grains so I totally mis-spoke there. I reccomend 10' of T-8 at most for casters getting into this as the 15' tip requires a lot more nuance to cast it. I don't snag much, I use flies that are very light and I keep the line pretty tight other than the initial drift to sink it. Not much junk on the bottom in our river, hook stays pretty clean.

[@ἀπόστολος14]

Current speed (walking) = 4mph × 1mile/5280ft × 1ft/12inches × 3600seconds/1hour. The current speed = 5.867 inches/second Effective sink rate of T8 would be 6 inches/second − 5.867 inches/second ≈ 0.133 inches/second His swing is about 15 seconds, so the line sinks about 2 inches total at a perfect 0 degree (perpendicular to the river) with a tight line. The T8 will be like an intermittent in stillwater. When he walks down stream he walks for about 6 seconds, the line essentially will sink at it's sink rate (36 inches total). Because the swing comes in at a 45 degree angle from the current, the effective would be 6(T8)*cos(45radian) - 5.867, the line will be moving up at 1.62 inches per second at 45 degrees. It has a negative sink rate and the sink rate will become more negative as the line becomes parallel with the current. When it is completely parallel the line will be lifting up at 5.87 inches per second, the current speed. In his swing the fly should be moving vertical for most the time. Maybe the best part of the swing is the first 10 seconds or so after walking for 6 seconds. This is a simplification because there is more friction towards the river bed, it will create an stretch out "s" shape, with the tip of the sink tip in the the slower current giving it a higher sink rate than the butt end. Also the edges of have more friction, making the effective sink rate closer to the T8.

[@self-taught_angler]

@@ἀπόστολος14 Thanks for the calculations. However, I did not understand your math: How and why are you subtracting two vectors like they are scalars. Current speed and sink rate are magnitudes along two different (and for a good approximation orthogonal) axes. As you also acknowledge 6ips*6sec= 36inch = 3 feet = half a person. Since he was wading into the middle of the river (as seen towards the end of the clip) I asked the question above. He answered meaningfully, saying he is using light density flies.

[@ἀπόστολος14]

Cos(theta) is the scalar, T8 and the current are the vectors. The current will proportionately offset the sink rate by a cos(theta). So what ever angle theta you're casting it's going to effect the sink rate. If the derivative is taken with respect to theta, then the rate of change should be -T8*sin(theta). But when you look at the derivative it looks like theta is from 90 (perp) to 180. A 45 degree cast would be 135 degrees and the rate of change would be -4.24ips so it loses quite a bit of sink rate initially, making the effective sink rate 1.62ips. @@self-taught_angler

[@robertconley8896]

Nice video! Will my Cortland Compition 10.5 3wt. work for single spey as you so succinctly demonstrated? Has the Crown Series Fly Reel with corland Euro nymph line. Am I in danger of breaking the tip swinging # 8 sculpzillas or similar bugs?

[@redsflyshop]

I would say you are always in danger of breaking the tip on any lightweight ESN rod haha. I would start with really little streamers, no coneheads.

[@ChefAlexSocci]

Thanks for this, Very interesting! I’m looking into my first euro rod after using my tenkara rod for nymphing a lot lately. Do you think a 4wt nymphing rod would be more versatile as a single hand spey or should I stick with the 3wt?

[@robertconley8896]

love my 10.5 3wt for Ebor on our local rivers. No problem with up to 20:fish

[@redsflyshop]

If you knew "for sure" you were going to fish this rig then get a #4, especially if you are out west and plan to slide stonefly nymphs along the bottom. The tip on the #4 moves big bugs better.

[@cachi-7878]

@18:29, hahahaha! Yeah, never say it’s too easy, especially when you’re on camera. 🤪

[@redsflyshop]

So true. So much goes wrong when the camera rolls. I should save the crappy ass outtakes as a joke and share someday.

[@ArthriticAngler]

Is your running line mono? Great videp

[@redsflyshop]

Yes, 25# RIO Slick Shooter. Very stiff, good for ESN and shoots like a dream.

[@andrzejwol]

Rod 10 weight 6. How much Skagit Head Grain?

[@robertshiraki8241]

can you do more small creek and small water fishing

[@redsflyshop]

I would like to yes, good suggestion.

[@jimsmith1242]

Off topic, but do you have any feedback on the new Redington Strike? Thanks, Joe

[@redsflyshop]

Good rod, not "great". I did like that it was very reliable. We saw the least amount of tip breakage with the STRIKE, but... it isn't nearly as sensitive as some other rods in class. Trade off.

[@MarkHous]

I’ve had a Strike for about three years and I really enjoy fishing it. For $300 the price was right. Since moving back to Colorado last spring, from OR, I need a smaller Spey style rod. I’m going to put a shooting head on it for working downstream.

[@TechAssuranceATL]

Joe, my question: I have 2-rods thinking about getting into some single hand Spey fishing and wanted to know if I could use same OPST line…let me know your thoughts: Rod-1: 5wt/9’ mod-fast action (OPST-200 gr. Per your chart) Rod-2: 3wt/10’ Euro-Nano moderate action (OPST-150 gr. Per your chart)…could I purchase the 175 gr. To use on both?

[@redsflyshop]

I would go with the 150 and here is what I would do, use Versileaders on Rod 2 (lighter grain weight), and use T-8 or OPST 96 Grain Tips on Rod 1. I think this will work just fine! The additional weight of the OPST tips should load up fine.

[@raymondgoodwin951]

15ft of t8 =120g I know you knew that though. To your point, it makes the rod even more impressive

[@redsflyshop]

Yes, thank you. Totally mis-spoke there. I would typically run 10' but had a 15'er sitting in my bag so I gave 'er a go. Worked well for me but probably tricky for most casters.

[@brendenphillips3013]

Where/how do you even start to come up with head weights for these 2-4wt 10-11ft rods? Trial and error? Rummage through your LFS?

[@redsflyshop]

A bit of trial and error, but they will all run with 150-200 grain heads and it's easier to tweak your sink tip to custom tune it.

[@markbump9192]

Are you using a euro style rod? What rod are you using? This is something I'm interested in and can do very easily on my river

[@redsflyshop]

Yes, it's the Beulah G2 Platinum 10'8" 3 Weight Rod

[@markbump9192]

@redsflyshop sorry I had to ask, I want able to watch the whole video. That is one of my dream rods

[@flyguy2021]

Not sure if I heard what skagit head you’re using. 200 grain commando? Lighter?

[@redsflyshop]

175 on this rod, 150 for most Euro rods is a better choice and some fine tuning with sink tips 10' or shorter. I can cast 12-15' tips with my experience but 7.5' - 10' is a better choice.

[@flyguy2021]

@@redsflyshopthanks. Seems like a great setup.