Reference Recording: Beethoven's Missa Solemnis

[@dizwell]

Good lord! That was Mildred giving you the shut-eye kiss, and it's adorable. She loves you!! Which means you are a good man.

[@robertbangkok]

Bernstein's original NY Phil recording, exciting, dynamic, simply amazing, has always been my go to. But thanks, I'll get the later recording and give it a listen.

[@DavidJohnson-of3vh]

Thank you. Mildred was superb in this episode. 🙂

[@caiofabiomachadomaiadasilv4190]

Hey Dave, I totally agree about that recording being the reference recording. Just to add some information, the violin solo part in “benedictus” is fantastic played by Hermann Krebbers. A terrific violinist and teacher. His tone and vibratto are impressive.

[@holgadoencinasraul2820]

Biggest surprise so far, along the Diabelli Variations and Otello. I was expecting, like almost everybody, Klemperer. Thank you for discovering this Bernstein recording, didn't know that it existed!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I didn't discover it. It discovered me!

[@holgadoencinasraul2820]

:))) sorry, my english is a bit clumsy.

[@nattyco]

I have Bernstein's earlier recording with the NYPO. I've never felt the need to look further. It's a deeply spiritual experience for me. Loved seeing Mildred.

[@danielo.masson353]

From my little rock in the Southern Hemisphere, this Bernstein recording was to me totally unsuspected. I never heard about it or noticed it before, not even when I browsed as a youth the paper catalogue from DG, though I had well registered that Karajan and Böhm had recorded the work and 'heard' from European reviews that Bernstein achieved wonderful results in Haydn Masses, left a splendid Mozart Requiem with the BRSO (what an intense performance) etc. My first recording was ironically Bernstein with New York and I had achieved to buy from a US outlet recordings of the live Szell, as stunning as you say as much as as you explained not really made available as a reference (I think also highly of his Mozart Requiem). Thank you for uncovering the treasure.

[@paullewis2413]

“Pets help you get through it”. 😂😂😂. Love it

[@joshuacreboreads]

Thank you for including your cat in the video! I hadn’t heard of this piece until I watched this video. Can’t wait to listen to it!

[@abrahampayne7767]

I haven't listened to this recording yet, but man...This is one those pieces that each movement needs it's own separate reference recording for the listener to fully grasp what the piece is about and should sound like.

[@RichardGreen422]

I know it is not a consensus view, but Bernstein may be my favorite Beethoven Conductor (if not him then Szell). I love his 3rd, 6th, and 7th (second one) with NY. I love his 1st, 2nd, 4th, 8th, and 9th with Vienna. Neither of his versions of 5 works for me, but oh well. His overtures are great, his Fidelio is great, and both his Missas are great.

[@waynesmith3767]

Quite agree with all you said.

[@nicholasjschlosser1724]

Feel exactly the same way. There's just something about the dynamism and energy of his performances (the way he always emphasizes the bass lines for example) that just sounds so idiomatic and naturally Beethoven. And yeah, his view of the 5th was always odd.

[@maestroclassico5801]

Szell is one of mine.

[@waynesmith3767]

This is the reference and also a great performance; I also like Klemps.

[@glennsolva1567]

Hoping to find it eventually. 😊 Mildred is adorable 😉🐈

[@davidmeyer3565]

Coincidentally, I was watching the dvd of this performance last night. I have the cd of his New York recording, but to see this live performance under Bernstein is a terrific experience, even without the superior sound quality of a cd. No question, it deserves to be the reference recording. Even if it doesn't quite match the power of Klemperer's last trump in the Credo. I haven't heard any recording that does.

[@steveschwartz8944]

It may well be a reference recording, but his earlier one with the NY Phil beats it in sheer number of volts. It becomes as dramatic as the Verdi Requiem. It's my favorite recording of the Missa Solemnis. Most others are way too pious.

[@hendriphile]

This one and the Toscanini/NBC are the ones I grew up with and they are indeed blazingly exciting. I don’t know if Bernstein/NYPO sounds better in its CD remastering than it does on the original LPs.

[@neiltheblaze]

The recording I came up with when I was first rather blindly looking around for a "Missa Solemnis" for my collection, was Karl Bohm with the Vienna Phil. It appeared on a DG budget label on LP, so it was a two-discs for the price of one deal, so I shrugged and bought it. The record turned out to be a cure for chronic insomnia. It was an utter snoozefest - but I was such a newbie that I assumed it was the piece - not the performance. That was until I heard a live performance that made me realize the piece could be something quite different - by, believe it or not, Roger Norrington on a broadcast with a modern orchestra. He made the piece move - parts of it even danced! I can't tell you if it was "correct" at all, but it made me awake to the fact that my problem with the Bohm recording was Bohm. Eventually, I settled on the Giulini EMI on CD and found that to be a decent alternative with what I perceive as well-judged tempos. I'll definitely give the Bernstein a listen.

[@Sulsfort]

This was the first recording, i got to know (from radio to audio cassette). I adored it. Later came Toscanini and Herreweghe on CD. This Bernstein I've got just two years ago.

[@maximisaev6974]

Dave, you could have knocked me over with a feather when you state the reference was/is Bernstein. Frankly, and it appears it's my loss, Bernstein's never even crossed my radar, such was, perhaps still is, the critical reverence for the Klemperer. I understand now why you needed Mildred's assistance because your reference will raise more than a few eyebrows, mine included. I guess it's time to teach an old dog a new trick, so I'll give Bernstein a listen. Thanks and take care!

[@episodesglow]

This was one of the first I heard but the one I play most often these days is Blomstedt

[@williamevans9426]

You should produce an occasional 'Mildred's Choice' episode, including a key to Mildred's scoring system (purrs, meows, tail curls, etc.).

[@josephromance3908]

I would so like to have Szell's on CD.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

As I said, it's been pirated and issued.

[@josephromance3908]

@@DavesClassicalGuide yes I heard that. I should have said an easily purchased one. I can 't find the CD you refer to.

[@disasterblaster3693]

You should probably wear a tie when talking about Beethoven's Missa Solemnis.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

You mean a robe.

[@Misha.K23040]

Dear Dave, I have a question. Why are there no major classical composers (at least that I know of, please correct me if I’m wrong) from the Netherlands? A nation that is right in the thick of European culture, which was resplendent with genius in the visual arts, for instance, and with one of the world’s great orchestras. I wonder how these things come about.

[@christopherfogarty1877]

I enjoy your videos and Classics Today website. Do you have a set of videos or a recommendation for an introduction to classical music? I am new to this genre and would like to understand the instruments, the history, the musical architecture, etc.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Please have a look at the Classical Music for beginners playlist. There's lots of stuff for you to explore. Here's the link: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fXrdXnmbo7Scqas There's also a series of Essential Lists for Beginners by composer. Finally, there's a playlist called "Tips for Critical Listening that you might enjoy.

[@JackJohnsonNY]

Wow, this surprised me. I have listened to so many recordings of this work, since it's one of my all-time favorites. And I wasn't even aware of this one (embarrassingly). So I have definitely learned something. By the way, your comments at the beginning about the work being perceived as confounding and it being hard to identify a reference reminds me of Berlioz's requiem - is there even a reference recording for that work?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Sure there is.

[@JackJohnsonNY]

@@DavesClassicalGuidewould love a video on that one if you get a chance!

[@JasonSTL]

Is there a lack of critical consensus about the Klemperer? Is there greater critical consensus around the Bernstein? This confused me a little, candidly, separate and apart from my personal preferences.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I think there was more of one for the Bernstein.

[@jlaurson]

I think that consensus for Klemperer, over time, has been more sustained, in this case. Although it might, at the time, have been overshadowed by the (relative) newcomer.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

That may well be true.

[@NN-df7hl]

How do you rate the sound quality on Lenny's NYP version compared to the "reference" one? I remember it being pretty decent. I have it on Sony's Beethoven box set with the gold colored discs. Great set with lots of classic recordings, btw!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I think that describes it accurately. It's pretty decent!

[@richardbois3642]

Wow, Dave. This is what love most about your videosI honestly didn’t know Bernstein recorded the Missa Solemnis on DG. Looking forward to listening to it. May I ask if there’s a reference recording of Beethoven’s C-major Mass? I heard it for the first time twenty years ago in a concert by the New Mexico State University Orchestra and Choir in Las Cruces, NM and soon thereafter found the Beecham recording on an EMI budget twofer and loved it.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

There is no reference for the C Major Mass.

[@richardbois3642]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Well I guess there’s something to look forward to 😃

[@itsagasgasgas]

Although I don’t really like it, Gardiner on Archiv was somewhat reference-ish (reference-ized?) at some point too, especially when it came out…

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

It got a lot of attention when it came out but it was never a reference.

[@johnwright7557]

I have always thought his earlier recording is better with better soloists and sound. For me no one has exceeded Eileen Farrell as the soprano. That and Klemperer were the references when I was growing up before Bernstein’s second version came out. That earlier Bernstein remains my reference, though there are others I listen to as well including Gardiner’s first one, Harnoncourt’s with the Concertgebouw on DVD, and Frieder Bernius’s.

[@jensguldalrasmussen6446]

Of course David can't mention every other good to great recording of a work while presenting the reference (makes me wonder whether there has been a 'repertoire' or a 'best of/worst of' video on Beethoven's Missa?). My personal reference triptych consists of Bernstein and Klemperer, mentioned in the video, and Jochum's luminous, devotional, transcendental, yet ever so humane, 1970-recording with the Concertgebouw and a fine roster of soloists: Jochum stalwarts, Giebel, Höffgen, Haefliger, supplemented by Karl Riddersbusch. Incidentially, Jochum and Bernstein share the same excellent violin soloist in the Benedictus, namely the Concertgebouw's inimitable primarius, Herman Krebbers.

[@maarten-jandongelmans7739]

Nice choice. My personal favourites are: Jochum (Agnes Giebel) and Solti (Lucia Popp). The DG recording with Boehm (Margaret Price) was a disaster.

[@davidaiken1061]

Yes, of course, it has to be Bernstein. One of the few conductors who really "got" the work, and, I would maintain, was influenced by it when he came to write his theatre piece, "Mass." The two composers shared a common spirituality, fragile faith interlaced with doubt; exultation passing over into rage, then back again. Bernstein II may have been the critical consensus; but Bernstein I is the better performance. The Sony is more athletic, perhaps less majestic, but more combative when Beethoven requires. The earlier quartet blends so much better than the later one, too Edda Moser's shrill soprano is largely to blame for that. But both renditions get to the heart of the matter, as few others have.

[@michelangelomulieri5134]

Tough choice to pick up one between Lennie and blomstedt

[@geertdecoster5301]

My favourite orchestra and Lenny then. What's wrong about that? Du grand Bernstein pour un immense Beethoven. And yet again something I lacked Mozart once with the Requiem: especially in the quieter sections like the Praeludium leading to the Benedictus Bernstein lets the Concertgebouw play the Missa with the right touching reverence. Thus, personally, I'll take it

[@TOONACEDRELA]

Cats are so good for the soul. My big boy, Fido, is by my side as I watch this.

[@isqueirus]

I grew up thinking the only Missa Solemnis worth listening in the entire universe was Karajan`s. (Some menbers of my family worship Karajan). Today, I'm breaking free from the shackles of my family!😂

[@dennischiapello7243]

Or so you think! 😎

[@MrNicks-gn8jc]

I am strange.....I cut my teeth with Herreweghe on period instruments ON 1 DISC.....and I'm stuck on that one

[@PeterCampbell-xd9ks]

The cat and the year of birth reveal grabbed my attention. I’m not a cat person. Keeping them out of my garden is the limit of my interest. Missa Solemnis is worthy, but not a top Beethoven or even a top religious work, in my view. I do have a copy - but not your reference version.

[@bobbyfischer9420]

Meow :)