Reflections on ISKCON's Guru Culture: An Interview with Kalakantha Prabhu

Kalakantha Prabhu shares his perspective on how ISKCON's guru culture has developed over the past 40+ years, as well as Srila Prabhupada's vision for a future in which all of his disciples would become acharyas, and ISKCON would have millions of members.
To learn more about the ISKCON History Archive, visit bolohari.com

[@mvpdd64]

Dearest Kalakantha Prabhu, I cannot tell you how appreciative I am of your straightforward, honest and delicate approach for us to understand our ISKCON history better. When there is someone like you explaining the truth of the past, then we are clearly seeing how we must ALL assist Srila Prabhupada's movement with integrity, decency and devotion. Thank you for holding the torch that brings light to our consciousness. And how much Srila Prabhupada appreciates all of your fine efforts. y/s, mvpdasi

[@bhagavatidasi2373]

Thank you Kalakanta prabhu. I've been a member of ISKCON for 44 years (so I lived through the zonal acarya-era) and lately have struggled with my faith in the institution. Your talk is a shining light and I hope many people are going to hear this.

[@peaceformula5830]

Have faith in Krishna. Srila Prabhupada said ISKCON is just a place where people can gather together and hear Krishna Katha from a pure devotee. (look up that quote) and ask Krishna if you can meet and recognise a pure devotee 🙏🏻

[@Lilanandadasa]

Hare Krishna Kalakantha Prabhu! Jaya Prabhupada. I was moved to reach out after watching your recounting of ISKCON's history. Amidst a sea of criticism, your elegant and informative approach stood out. I appreciate how you presented the history without disparaging anyone. Your preaching continues to be a source of inspiration for me. I believe it's crucial for us to maintain a balanced perspective when discussing ISKCON's history, acknowledging both the triumphs and challenges. Your graceful storytelling serves as a wonderful example of how we can honor our past while looking forward with optimism. Thank you for sharing your wisdom and knowledge with us, and for continuing to be a beacon of inspiration. Your servant, Lilananda dasa

[@mayanksaini11]

Kalakantha Prabhu, it was really so pleasing to hear from you, history in nutshell of Iskcon after Srila Prabhupada disappearance. Jai Srila Prabhupada ❤

[@jackieparcell1370]

Thank you so much Kalakantha Prabhu. I've been in ISKCON for 51 years, felt so much respect and gratitude hearing you speak. You said it all - from your own experience. I'm actually speechless, you've inspired me and given me hope that pascatya desha tarine may indeed be possible.

[@rajatsrivastava7791]

Thank you Prabhuji for displaying such a maturity. With so many problems in ISKCON you never left it or created an apasampraday.

[@reinerstephan7799]

Thank you very, very much for sharing your insights. Greetings from Germany.

[@russelltrickey6849]

The devotees who became gurus were very sincere, they did huge service for Srila Prabhupada but it's not surprising that they fell down. I still respect them for their service. By their dedication and by the dedication of all of Prabhupadas disciples people like me could become devotees

[@sanatsevajay]

They weren't even humans, what to speak of being devotees 😂

[@peaceformula5830]

You can't say they were sincere. Someone who is sincere Srila Prabhupada says can never be cheated by Maya. You could say they were enthusiastic and motivated, though motivated by what is another discussion. Take the rose tinted glasses off.

[@russelltrickey6849]

I appreciate Kalakanrha Prabhus humility and respect for the devotees. I dont resoe t others who demonize devotees who gave it their all but fell short of the ideal of Krsna consciousness.

[@jonthoreson6654]

my obeisances Kalakanta Prabhu! This was a wonderful, thoughtful, and gracious presentation. I served under you in Houston in 1985 and in Potomac (D.C.) in 1988 and was always benefited by your association. YS Yasomatinandana Dasa

[@BhaktaRobin]

Ritvik Prabhupadanuga Proof Entire Playlist all senior devotees Garga Muni,Madhu Pandit Dasa, Gauridasa Pandit Dasa, Yashoda Nandana Dasa ACBSP kzbin.info/aero/PLNyvgaBuOihS4CQyJLmIlA7lSMzRCN_fQ BOOK CHANGES Professor Graham M Schweig - atrocity of editing Srila Prabhupadas books academic standard kzbin.info/www/bejne/g5rWZ3hoo6-qa8U HG Yaśodā-nandana Dāsa ACBSP - no other vaishnava samparadaya edits the books of their Acharya kzbin.info/www/bejne/mHWYeq13jdlsp7s Moola Grantha definite edition of Madhva Sampradaya Books necessary in ISKCON - Yaśodā nandana Dāsa kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZnvOXmeip7qpiLc Pseudo devotees in the Krishna Consciousness Society book change kzbin.info/www/bejne/omXVgJpnj8h9esk

[@stjepankozina3646]

Thank you for this Prabhu!

[@ramanandadas8457]

A very good presentation. Pagmatic and informative. I sometime wonder if the mission of Lord Caitanya is too broad for ISKCON to accommodate. ISKCON has done much in the service of Lord Caitanya but it really seems to struggle with growing beyond its many misconceptions about how Bhakti can and should be practised. If it is not possible for the leaders of the movement to see beyond their impressions of India, or of ISKCON in the 1970’s, then devotees will break away. The need for freedom to practice and take shelter according to the individuals needs and cultural customs will become much more dominant than loyalty to an institution.

[@pierreantonio8647]

Gaudiya Vaishnavism From Wikipedia, the free encyclopaedia Final conclusion analyse this information? A subsequent 100 year decline and 400 year corruption and poisoning of the original Chaitanya Vaishnavism The new tree was healthy and produced good fruit intention to destroy class discrimination and female inequality against organised patriarchal religion. International Society for Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON) Tree now produces a poisonous fruit including racism, Female inequality including misogynistic practices. Encourages pedophilia and homosexuality including other crimes (ISKCON) 1000s of fake gurus. Prentending tobe a humble and a pure devotee accusing people of heresy against (ISKCON demons).

[@Bhaktikidssangha]

Could we have more talks with prabhu ?

[@peaceformula5830]

He already said everything. And is willing to die on the hill of making women gurus so preaching can happen in the West. 😅 Its not about men or women it's about lack Krishna Consciousness that's why the movement died in the West.

[@user-hf5uq5lo2y]

Happy for you.

[@Jagannathesvari]

Very well explained. Thank you

[@niksasrsen]

🙏

[@boundlessbhakti]

Sadhu! Sadhu! Thank you.

[@davidedotto1594]

lucid analysis and beautiful story.... may Iskon find leaders similar to him

[@Bhaktikidssangha]

Brilliant talk

[@bn8682]

Pranams Dear Kalakanta Prabhu!, All glories to Srila Prabhupada! Thank you for your overview and perspective from doing so much dedicated service to Srila Prabhupada and his mission for so many years. I believe we are the same age (born in 1954 here) and we joined at the same age after high school in 1972 (me in Los Angeles / joined in Laguna Beach after dropping out of UCSD after one quater), I think we only met briefly once in Alachua in later 2005 or so. I would agree with your characterization of ISKCON history for the most part. You were there, and saw it from within. I saw it also, but from being in the community, after about 3 years of brahmacari life in a temple, until 1975. I kept devotee association over the years, and tried to assist HH Bhaktiswarupa Damodar Swami in his years as the head of the Bhaktivedana Institute, as given to him by Srlia Prabhupada. My perspective has probably been influenced by living 12 years in Asia (two of them in India with all the bits and pieces added up) then returning to California living here again since 2009. From what I could observe, Srila Prabhupada was very conservative in his own character and values, and at the same time very liberal in giving time to those of us who needed it, to continually approach higher standards, without compromising those standards. I started chanting while in my last year in high school, and from adding Krishna as you say - adding chanting, plus seeing Srila Prabhupada at LA temple from mid-72 onward, somehow enough spiritual strength and credits were built up, So I could quit school and move into the temple. Gaining the strength from chanting (and of course HUGE blessings from meeting His Divine Grace) gave me boost needed to overcome my own cultural conditioning and biases, to appreciate the spiritual culture Prabhupada presented and embodied. Prabhupada offered us a spiritual culture and experience, even though it obviously had some of the trappings of Indian culture included. The spirtual culture was primary to me; the Indian-ness was just seen as collateral. All cultural affiliations, both Eastern and Western, are meant to be transcended in Krishna consciousness.. "Sarvopadhi vinirmuktam...." is what Prabhupada was trying to teach us. .. Conservatism works in India, (and contributes to a growing body of devotees and temples) because they still have have a sense of values and culture to some degree. Being born in India, can be a pious birth in some ways. Indians are the wealthiest immigrant community by far in the US, and many talented Indians are now the CEOs of many top USA corporations. Scratch the skin of an Indian, and you will find a devotee, Prabhupada used to say. India is becoming stronger, as America declines, on many levels. It seems there may be a coordinated trend of dumbing down the educational systems and the populace, for social control, but I digress. Modi, India's present conservative prime minister, who has cleaned up corruption in India in an unbelievable way, is about to win a second term with vast popular support. He has gone on record and video in glorifying Srila Prabhupada, with the highest levels of praise and appreciation. America, on the other hand, is rudderless - especially it's present political leaders who are preaching "equity" as the pinnacle of social justice and preferred standard of worth. The population here is a completely divided mess. Equity, is a veiled platform to unify, but it's practical intent and effect, is that of more confusion, suspicion division, and polarization. It tries to legislate the rights of the few, over the rights of the many to think and live by their own standards. Imho, worshiping the god of equity, is a type of impersonalism - trying to make everyone one and the same, without distinction of individual qualities and characteristics, which different people posses. Equity does not recognize obvious, inherent strengths and weaknesses of individuals. As to guna and karma, not all men are equal to each other, nor are all women equal to each other, and certainly all men are not equal to all women. In juxtaposition, there is true equality that is compatible with individuality, but only on the purely spiritual platform - but it is not applicable in the arena of conditioned souls who stick to their body's material designations with ferocity . So for equity oriented devotees, this brings up a question: If when trying to appease/approach Westen cultural conformity, with it's bodily designations of a socially confused population, would a trans-identified person, who follows the regulative principles and chants 16 rounds - say a man dressing in a sari and acting like a woman - be approved as a guru, in the name of equity? Wouldn't be an obvious next step, for those following the equity agenda? How far can Western materialistic culture be catered to, considering its based on bodily idenfication? Imho, America's problem in not making new devotees is not based on not having female gurus. It's based on the fact that leaders, whether sanyas or householders, have become of obsessed with securing money and a secure position somehow..Due to such attachments, their taste is meager from a lack of renunciation, and they don't have the glow of happiness and humility, that people are inspired by. Most young people would look our leaders and think, "is that how I want to end up, after 50 years of being a Hare Krishna? Actually maybe some would be inspired, if they could go up the corporate ladder and stash a bunch of personal cash along the way.. There may be a few exceptions, and some people may have a more generous vision of devotees - but to think that our movement in the west will be saved by some lady gurus, while the existing leadership has stagnated in many cases, and who also basically have no concern for rank and file devotees who have stuck it out for decades, is naive. Many western leaders and others, have access to millions of dollars with no oversight, while the rest of the society members are on their own. By their actions, many leaders in the West and East also btw, are projecting that everyone should join and surrender - but actually in the end: Its every man/woman for themselves. Am I wrong? Are lady gurus going to step in and fix this, or is it more likely that they will just carve out their own following and their own security blanket like their male counterparts, while some also fall over the course of time? Any male or female disciple can go out and preach. No one can stop them. If they are empowered and potent, they will succeed - they don't necessarily need a corporate entity to vouch for them. I wish everyone the best of luck. Hare Krishna. Respectfully, Bhojadeva Dasa

[@robb6059]

"These children are given to us by Krishna, they are Vaisnavas and we must be very careful to protect them. These are not ordinary children, they are Vaikuntha children, and we are very fortunate we can give them chance to advance further in Krishna Consciousness. That is very great responsibility, do not neglect it or be confused. Your duty is very clear." (Srila Prabhupada Letter, July 30, 1972)

[@AmalaBhakti108]

thankyou

[@DamodarPriyaDeviDasi]

Hare Krishna! As always Kalakantha Dasa Prabhu is a voice of reason. He's steady in his support of increasing Krishna consciousness in the west by empowering all qualified devotees to serve as gurus regardless of their material bodies. True sama darshana and adhering to one of the first principles Srila Prabhupada reinforced-- We are not these bodies. Praying that we can move forward with this. I can confirm that preaching in the west is difficult when having to explain to newcomers, "We believe we are not these bodies. We are spirit souls. However you are limited in how you can serve if you are in a female body." 😅🙏

[@peaceformula5830]

Sometimes the man should get pregnant and sometimes the woman should get pregnant. This is your logic 😅

[@DamodarPriyaDeviDasi]

​@@peaceformula5830 Hare Krishna 😊🙏 I'm sorry I don't understand your example. Devotional service is on the spiritual platform not the material. Pregnancy would be something related to the material body. 😅

[@rfbhakta8613]

I would be interested in your process of taking a newcomer and developing them to the point of wanting initiation and to join the movement. If you have an outline or more please share. I think you may have cracked the code to reach the current generation. I would love to learn the process. Thanks Advaita

[@peaceformula5830]

Be Krishna Conscious, depend on Krishna and infuse that in the other souls.

[@padmagarrett1215]

Thank you . This is a great way.to preach .

[@pankajlochandas8498]

An Acharya is self effulgent and unstoppable by any kind of institutional rules or forces. Krsna manifests through that Personality. He is externals manifestation of permatma in our heart. But he is hidden from insincere people. Krsna hides himself. But he cannot hide himself from sincere and genuine devotees who are crying in their hearts for the real shelter and protection. So such self effulgent acharya is not dependent on any kind ecclesiastical body. Srila prabhupada showed it by his personal example. We just need to pray to Krsna, he will tell whome to take shelter from. Rest initiation ceremony is just formality, real initiation means accepting to follow the instructions and guidance.

[@peaceformula5830]

Agree with this

[@TNSmitty1953]

ISKCON began in New York with the mission to preach to the western English-speaking countries. Then it quickly spread around the world. Every country has its own culture. The current world mood of culture is a fast-growing culture of inclusiveness and diversity gaining over the opposite. The overt East vs. West concept is antiquated at best and doesn't appear sustainable. Neither America or India owns ISKCON, Srila Prabhupada does. He expects the two to fully cooperate, and make some reasonable adjustments, not separate. If you separate, you separate yourself from Srila Prabhupada's mission, which stems from Lord Chaitanya's mission of every town and village. It's not Western consciousness or Eastern consciousness, it's Krsna consciousness.

[@jonthoreson6654]

well said Prabhu!

[@peaceformula5830]

They are fighting because North American men are trying to water down Krishna Consciousness and allow women and transgenders to be Gurus and also allow for LGBTQ marriages to happen in front of Radha and Krishna in the Temple.

[@sacisuta9246]

This supreme science was thus received through the chain of disciplic succession, and the saintly kings understood it in that way. But in course of time the succession was broken, and therefore the science as it is appears to be lost. PURPORT by (His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda) It is clearly stated that the Gītā was especially meant for the saintly kings because they were to execute its purpose in ruling over the citizens. Certainly Bhagavad-gītā was never meant for the demonic persons, who would dissipate its value for no one's benefit and would devise all types of interpretations according to personal whims. As soon as the original purpose was scattered by the motives of the unscrupulous commentators, there arose the need to reestablish the disciplic succession. Five thousand years ago it was detected by the Lord Himself that the disciplic succession was broken, and therefore He declared that the purpose of the Gītā appeared to be lost. In the same way, at the present moment also there are so many editions of the Gītā (especially in English), but almost all of them are not according to authorized disciplic succession. There are innumerable interpretations rendered by different mundane scholars, but almost all of them do not accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, although they make a good business on the words of Śrī Kṛṣṇa. This spirit is demonic, because demons do not believe in God but simply enjoy the property of the Supreme. Since there is a great need of an edition of the Gītā in English, as it is received by the paramparā (disciplic succession) system, an attempt is made herewith to fulfill this great want. Bhagavad-gītā-accepted as it is-is a great boon to humanity; but if it is accepted as a treatise of philosophical speculations, it is simply a waste of time.

[@vrajananda]

Creepy. I spent 40 years as a mushroom waiting for knowledge. Now I found my way

[@peaceformula5830]

Bhagavan said to treat Devotees like mushrooms, keep them in the dark and feed them shit.

[@srisrinitaigauraashramausa]

"By the mercy of Krishna, one gets guru, and by the mercy of a genuinely elevated Vaishnava guru, one gets Krishna. The institutional rubber-stamping of guru as well as the recurrently observed herding of unsuspecting fledgling devotional candidates into institutionally endorsed liaison with chic-awash, locally lionized, ecclesiastically rubber-stamped guru figure-heads simply boasts of a preposterously overestimated shot at managerially manipulating, governing, or meddling with the entirely independent will of the Absolute." - Śrila Aindra Dās Babajī Mahārāja

[@pierreantonio8647]

Gaudiya Vaishnavism From Wikipedia, the free encyclopaedia Final conclusion analyse this information? A subsequent 100 year decline and 400 year corruption and poisoning of the original Chaitanya Vaishnavism The new tree was healthy and produced good fruit intention to destroy class discrimination and female inequality against organised patriarchal religion. International Society for Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON) Tree now produces a poisonous fruit including racism, Female inequality including misogynistic practices. Encourages pedophilia and homosexuality including other crimes (ISKCON) 1000s of fake gurus. Prentending tobe a humble and a pure devotee accusing people of heresy against (ISKCON demons).

[@lenny108]

It all makes sense what Kalakantha Prabhu is saying. But at the same time it makes Srila Prabhupada look like he appointed the worst rascals as his successors - those who were not even kanistha. Why should Srila >Prabhupada have done such a thing? Only US gurus what is a massive provocation for India. If however, Srila Prabhupada did not appoint successor gurus then our attempt to have gurus anyway makes the parampara to be broken.

[@peaceformula5830]

Srila Prabhupada gave people a chance to perfect themselves, it was their fault for not following his instructions and becoming covered. Also the parampara is always present or else you could throw the Bhagavad Gita in the bin, no one would have a chance to practice 4.34

[@michaellakey3565]

I feel this sincere devotee might benefit from reading " The Final Order" by Krishna Kant. Please search " Back to Prabhupada" .

[@iskconhistoryarchive]

The post-samadhi ritvik theory is an important part of ISKCON's development in the 80s and 90s. However, I don't think Krishna Kant Prabhu's presentations are very convincing. Better to read The Guru and What Prabhupada Said by Virabahu Dasa

[@TrueDetective007]

@@iskconhistoryarchivehalf truth is the most dangerous, yes initially prabhupada wanted all his disciples to become Guru, however later he saw none are qualified and it would be disastrous and power play so he said not to change anything and until he appoints no one will be a "regular Guru" he also said not to change anything....his physical departure doesn't mean he is absent. So post Samadhi Ritvik is the only system authorized.the rest is bogus deviations

[@iskconhistoryarchive]

@@TrueDetective007 Actually Srila Prabhupada directly told His Holiness Radha Govinda Maharaja to accept disciples, even in his presence. However, Maharaja did not feel comfortable and wanted Prabhupada to accept the students as his own disciples. But this didn't happen before Prabhupada departed. So Radha Govinda Maharaja initiated these devotees in December 1977, likely becoming the first initiating guru among Srila Prabhupada's disciples. Srila Prabhupada also told Gour Govinda Swami to initiate disciples, as well as at least one or two others. So the theory that "none were qualified" is inaccurate. It's true that among the initial batch of 11 zonal gurus, few were qualified according to the standards given in the shastra. For this reason, they struggled and fell from the position. However, others remained steady in their practice. This shows that they were and are qualified. Srila Prabhupada taught according to shastra. Because the post-samadhi ritvik theory has no basis in shastra, it is apasiddhanta. It is a novel, modern concoction. No acharya has ever suggested it. It is based on the classical misunderstanding of atmavan manyate jagat. Srila Prabhupada writes: "According to the logic of atmavan manyate jagat, everyone thinks of others according to his own position." You are thinking that because you are not qualified to become a guru, then no one is qualified. But as you become mature in bhakti, you realize that many devotees are in fact qualified to serve as gurus. Hare Krishna 🙏

[@TrueDetective007]

Also, it is fallacy to suggest that there is no basis for Ritvik initiations in Shastra because other authorized Vaishnav Sampradaya practice it as Acharya intita tion system Whre a Uttama Adhikari like Prabhupad is the only Acharya of a sampradaya and others are initiatiors on his behalf but Regardless, Prabhupada is the Acharya here, and he can modify and guide according to time and place. Therefore, you cannot override Prabhupada by saying it is not in sastra. Just like nowhere in Sastra is the Gayatri mantra given to a lower Mallecha or Yavana, but Prabhupada did, and that is the system now. So within his institution, ISKCON, his will is supreme, and he gave clear directions when he was present and asked not to change anything.its unfortunate that you misunderstood everything by your mental speculation🙏

[@AlexandreTorriglia]

⁠​⁠@@iskconhistoryarchive Hare Krishna, Do you know who are the “one or two others” that Srila Prabhupada told to initiate disciples? Thanks! Haribol 🙏

[@sankarsanadas3026]

This is the section of the CC Adi 7.31-32 purport that Kalakantha Prabhu refers to: “Not knowing that boys and girls in countries like Europe and America mix very freely, these fools and rascals criticize the boys and girls in Kṛṣṇa consciousness for intermingling. But these rascals should consider that one cannot suddenly change a community’s social customs. However, since both the boys and the girls are being trained to become preachers, those girls are not ordinary girls but are as good as their brothers who are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness.” Note “cannot suddenly change” in the purport. Did Prabhupada want the free mixing of the boys and girls to be perpetuated as an unchangeable standard in the progression of his movement? No. So he introduced higher cultural things like addressing women as mothers to hopefully elevate the consciousness of animalistic westerners. There was a bridging of the gap in place to get followers to become more civilized. When I joined I understood the tradition was from India and that there were different cultural standards involved. Addressing women as mother didn’t induce me to head for the door. I knew it was a higher perception to subdue the propensity for lust. Are newcomers now so temperamental that they can’t tolerate anything beyond what their minds tell them? And we should acquiesce to that perpetually? That doesn’t line up with Prabhupada’s intentions of “boiling the milk”, or establishing varnashram.

[@iskconhistoryarchive]

I agree with you. However, as long as there are conditioned souls acclimated to western cultural norms, there should be a way for them to comfortably integrate into the Krishna conscious society. So the bridge should remain, even as the more dedicated among ISKCON membership attempt to establish communities based on eternal Vedic principles.

[@peaceformula5830]

Well said.

[@peaceformula5830]

​Nah. Just speak your realization Srila Prabhupada said. Even if it's small that will be effective. Those who are meant to hear the message will join.

[@sankarsanadas3026]

Historically when it came to management there was a gulf of difference between things that Prabhupada said and what he practically did. His general quotes about equality and equal opportunities among the boys and girls wasn’t something he ever implemented when it came to leadership roles in ISKCON. He also discredited his letters and to some degree his conversations as reference points to establish his intentions for his movement. For that he pointed to his books as the authority. In his books is where to find confirmation on the sastra based actions Prabhupada practically performed during his direction of his society. There in the SB purport to 4.12.32 Prabhupada says no to female diksa gurus. And practically Prabhupada only spoke to men about becoming diksa gurus. These distinctions based on Prabhupada’s practical actions are historically elaborated upon in this video by Sivarama Swami: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aXvNZWBupNeSqqMsi=U4b7R0I5S9F9nacn

[@iskconhistoryarchive]

Women are less commonly found in leadership roles. However, there are rare instances where a highly qualified woman takes on a position of material or spiritual leadership. This has happened throughout history and it will continue. You may not be aware that Srila Prabhupada asked Yamuna and Govinda Dasi to sit in the GBC and have 1/2 vote each. However, Yamuna declined due to the fact that her godbrothers were unlikely to take her seriously. TKG, for example, was dismissive and disrespectful toward many of his godsisters for many years. He apologized for this in the late 90s or early 2000s, after attending university and being extremely impressed by the intellectual acumen of a female colleague. So while women in general have less capacity for intellectually rigorous activity, like administration, research, etc, there are some women who are much more capable than the majority of men. Srila Prabhupada did give select qualified women leadership roles, such as preaching, and training others in deity worship. He wanted Yamuna to be on the GBC, but his male disciples were, in general, not mature enough to accommodate this, so it didn’t happen. That’s my personal analysis of the history. Yamuna simply said something to the effect of “I’m sorry Prabhupada, but it wouldn’t work.” In terms of Srila Prabhupada’s statements in his books, please see his purport to yei krsna-tattva vetta sei guru haya. There he says anyone can be Guru who knows the science of Krishna. He does not say, “except women.” A soul who has realized Krishna is beyond the bodily conception and should not be judged according to their bodily condition. You can also see NOI 6 in this regard. Srila Prabhupada even cites the krsna-tattva vetta verse in a famous conversation in which he says women CAN act as guru, and he gives examples of famous Vaisnavi gurus. Of course, such cases are rare. Already to find a qualified guru is rare-so qualified female gurus will be extremely rare, but not nonexistent. It makes sense, I think, for ISKCON to have stricter standards for Vaisnavi gurus, and also possibly a target ratio, i.e. no more than 3 or 4 for every 100 male gurus. An arrangement like this should satisfy all parties and accommodate all of Prabhupada’s instructions on the topic. This is my personal opinion.

[@sankarsanadas3026]

The account I’m aware of regarding Yamuna possibly becoming a GBC is in a video of Tamal Krishna Goswami saying Prabhupada told him that Yamuna was on the stage of bhava bhakti and he would have her on the GBC except that she was a woman. I don’t think Tamal Krishna Goswami would lie about that. If it is true Prabhupada decided against it, and not that Yamuna turned down an offer. Where is the account you provided derived from?

[@sankarsanadas3026]

Regarding the yei krsna tattva vetta verse the synonyms in the verse don’t include women so they weren’t necessarily included as candidates in the composition of the verse. And “a knower of the science of Krsna” can be interpreted by different degrees of knowing. kibā - whether; vipra - a brāhmaṇa; kibā - whether; nyāsī - a sannyāsī; śūdra - a śūdra; kene - why; naya - not; yei - anyone who; kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā - a knower of the science of Kṛṣṇa; sei - that person; guru - the spiritual master; haya - is. A verse from the Narada Pancaratra which is either unknown, ignored, or simply rejected by FDG promoters states women can’t be gurus unless they see Krishna face to face. In that case they have transcended all bodily designations as the verse states and can be gurus. That is why women gurus are rare, and explains why Prabhupada names few rare women like Jahnava Ma who were on that stage.

[@sankarsanadas3026]

Women being diksa gurus is addressed such as in the SB 4.12.32 purport and in the Narada Pancaratra verse I mentioned. These references give the solid general indication no, and place a high bar on the qualification necessary. If women diksa gurus are rare (as Prabhupada said) the explanation can be found in these references. Sadhaka practitioners don’t fit the description of rare as defined here. There are lower standards for men to be diksa gurus, so they aren’t so rare.

[@iskconhistoryarchive]

You’re referring to 1.42 and 1.44 of the Bharadvaja-samhita. However, the widely circulated translation is a poor one that does not follow the commentator’s gloss nor the teachings on this topic of previous acaryas. The Sanskrit term you have here translated as “see Krishna face to face” is pratyakṣitātma-nāthānāṁ. The only known commentary I have found on Bharadvaja sanhita elaborates on this as follows: pratyakṣitātma-nāthānāṁ sākṣāt-kṛta-bhagavat-tattvānām eṣāṁ yogināṁ kulādikaṁ na cintanīyam api tu te 'pi tu ācāryatām arhanti ity api ity arthaḥ | "The term pratyakṣitātma-nāthānām means that one has direct realization of bhagavat-tattva, or the truths pertaining to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. For such yogis, one should not consider such material designations as caste, gender, and so on. The meaning, therefore, is that they are able to act as acaryas (gurus)." A nearly identical term appears in Sri Ramanujacarya’s gloss of tattva-darsinah from BG 4.34. A truly Krishna conscious person is qualified to act as guru, regardless of any material or bodily designation. They know Krishna-tattva. Not theoretically, but factually. In terms of Varnasrama, the post of Guru may be given to a man more readily than to a woman. But we are Vaisnavas. We may follow varnasrama externally, but we do not take shelter of it as a path to spiritual perfection. Therefore, for a Vaisnava guru, the qualification is the same whether one is man or woman. This is the purport of the Bharadvaja Samhita verse you mentioned, which, incidentally also prohibits outcastes (i.e. Americans, Europeans, Africans, etc.) from acting as guru. But this is only within the varnasrama system. The Vaisnava system works differently.

[@npd108]

Show some scriptural reference or class or conversation where Prabhupada called ALL THE WOMEN Prabhu

[@iskconhistoryarchive]

Hare Krishna! Here is a page with numerous instances of Srila Prabhupada referring to his female disciples as "Prabhu" vaniquotes.org/wiki/Srila_Prabhupada_addressing_his_female_disciples_as_%22Prabhu%22 The following link also has two letters that offer valuable insight into the culture Srila Prabhupada established in ISKCON regarding gender roles: vaishnaviministry.org/the-letters-that-began-the-dialogue-in-iskcon/

[@peaceformula5830]

You're saying that experienced women cannot share their faith through making prasadam? Also like they cannot make friendship with the females in the ashram? Actually we don't call Matajis Prabhus in my experience because their nature is different. We respect them and their contribution but they are not men and when the time comes to kick the crazy or violent people out of the Temple for making a disturbance or to protect the Devotees that is done by the men. You said your house was broken into twice and your wife was terrified despite being a long time practitioner. So the experience has even manifested in your own life that the roles of men and women are different. If people in the West who are infected with advocating LGBTQ and child transgenderism advocacy don't want to join ISKCON that is fine. We will survive. Everyone comes to Krishna eventually they are just temporarily distracted. Lastly yes we should apply the strict standard to male Devotees who can be Guru Srila Prabhupada said one who is a pure devotee, who has been ordered by the previous Acarya to be Guru can become Guru not by rubber stamping or self made Guru.

[@sankarsanadas3026]

Kalakantha Prabhu is the first devotee I met and he gave me preliminary guidance to practice devotional service. I love him but don’t agree with all of his perspectives. Concerning this video and others broadcast by ISKCON outlets I’ve seen, the jury is rigged on this topic relating to the FDG issue. ISKCON India has strong arguments for their contrary views on the topic, but they are allotted no air time by mainstream ISKCON outlets to express those views.

[@iskconhistoryarchive]

Dear Sankarsan Prabhu, dandavat pranams. Hare Krishna! This channel is not an official ISKCON outlet. I am just an aspiring member of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness trying to serve present and future generations of devotees by documenting the history of the movement post-1977. I am planning to interview HH Bhakti Vikas Swami, and if he so desires he can also speak about the history of guruship in ISKCON from his perspective. I generally give significant freedom to my interviewees in terms of topics they would like to speak on, under the broad umbrella of ISKCON history. If you would like to recommend I interview specific devotees in India or elsewhere, I am open to reaching out to them.

[@sankarsanadas3026]

Thank you for the response and interest in hearing from the other side of this issue. All I’ve been exposed to are pro fdg videos during the past year or so, so I’ve been concerned whether any legitimacy can be considered to those on the other side. But I have been informed that later in May a meeting conducted by the ISKCON communications journal will be held between representatives of both sides. Bhaktivikasa Swami was invited to represent one side and he referred to one of disciples Sridhara Srinivasa who has compiled a book on the issue to be the representative.

[@iskconhistoryarchive]

Nice to hear that there will be a dialogue in May. Hopefully this will bear good fruit. The issue has dragged on for more than two decades. Anyway, Krishna has His plan. It would be nice to see common ground established for all ISKCON members in terms of the social direction of the movement as a whole.

[@mytruth3777]

What is FDG please

[@alanzeko]

Female diksha gurus​@@mytruth3777

[@HareKrsnaHareRama]

HANSADUTTA SPEAKS: YOU EITHER EMBRACE SRILA PRABHUPADA IN YOUR HEART EXCLUSIVELY, EXCLUDING ALL OTHER OPINIONS, OR EMBRACE THE OPINIONS OF THE GURUS VOTED BY A COMMITTEE, MAYAVADIS, SAHAJIYAS, IMPERSONALISTS AND OTHER MENTAL SPECULATORS. Ritvik initiation ceremony was conducted routinely for many years on behalf of Srila Prabhupada. Why would Srila Prabhupada have to formulate a letter instructing me and 10 others to perform ritviks initiations that we all had been doing for years? The only reason would be to formalise and fix us to continue after his departure. His departure was an obvious fact, his instructions by a formal letter, indicating specific personalities, were clear. There is no letter where Prabhupada points to any disciple who takes on the responsibility of being a GURU. Prabhupada used to say, “You can say anything, but don’t put it in writing.”. That makes it a legal document.” What Prabhupada said in a conversation is just that. A conversation. What was written are legal documents. What is at stake here is not the rhetoric or mental speculation of the VOTED in GURUS; rather, it is your conviction and loyalty to Prabhupada, because without that, you cannot convince anyone of Prabhupada or Krishna Consciousness. Because Krishna Consciousness flows from Prabhupada the person, NOT from ISKCON the INSTITUTION. “It is the king who makes the kingdom”, not the kingdom who makes the king. Srila Prabhupada is the foundation, the creator of ISKCON, not ISKCON is the creator of Prabhupada. You have to invest your whole heart and soul into Prabhupada's PERSON, then ISKCON's Validity, Authenticity and Power will be clearly visible to you. You will not recognise or determine the MEANING and INTENTION of Prabhupada by conducting an OPINION POLL inside ISKCON. You and Prabhupada are in front of each other. You need to get in line. You can't get Prabhupada arming yourself with OTHERS OPINION. You are alone and you are responsible for your OWN DELIVERY. Its you and Srila Prabhupada. The ocean leaves plenty of room for non-stop paddling, but genuine and experienced sailors always maintain their course by gazing at the constant NORTH STAR (or Polar). This way, every experienced Sailor/DEVOTEE, anywhere in any ocean in the world, knows exactly where they are and how to proceed to their destination. Why are you so interested in “most devotees” and karmis?. You have to be first of all interested in your own and “true orientation towards Srila Prabhupada”. If that's not established in your heart, YOU CANNOT do good to anyone, NOT EVEN YOURSELF. You have to remember that Krishna, after explaining in detail several philosophies: karma yoga, morning yoga, astanga yoga, sankhya yoga, the three modalities of nature, the divine and demonic natures, the qualities of the four orders of the varnas and ashrams, the universal form, bhakti yoga and etc , finally concludes this eloquent summary of all philosophy, thought and Vedic analysis saying to Arjuna (His devotee and friend): Abandon all dharma and simply do what I tell you. Just give yourself to Me and I will protect you.... don't worry, don't be afraid. "If there's any fault or problem, I'll take care of it." But after 5,000 years of reading the Bhagavad-gita, the whole world, including India, has yet to grasp this final conclusion of Krishna's instructions. Sarva dharmam parityajya: “Forget all your DHARMA and all your formulas, traditions, rituals and procedures.”. Just give yourself to Me. I will protect you from every sinful reaction. DON'T FEAR IT. "Who has understood this conclusive order????. Almost NOBODY. So even when Srila Prabhupada spent ten years travelling, preaching, writing 60 volumes of books, building temples, farming communities, recruiting thousands of devotees, meeting dignitaries, pop stars, etc., no one can understand, or NO ONE wants to understand his FINAL ORDER, his final prescription for his disciples and the world, because the heart is filled with ambition to be a GURU-ACHARYA similar to or better than Prabhupada. So he presented himself so that everyone could have his cake and eat it too. Prabhupada's instructions are actually CLEAR AS CRYSTAL, but if one's heart is not CLEAR AS CRYSTER, you cannot see, hear or embrace what is CLEAR AS CRYstals. Therefore there is Chaos, Confusion and Ignorance. Ignorance does not mean something is unknown or not understood. Ignorance means I know the fact, but I WILLINGLY ignore it. Like a man who knows he should completely stop at a red light, but believing they don't see it, he doesn't stop and passes the red light without stopping. So ambition looks like this. Lust: "must get it...." "I want to be a guru." The polluted heart will find all sorts of REASONS, LOGIC, ARGUMENTS and SUPREME AUTHORITY to complement and support its ambitious and lustful desires. There is no room for bad interpretation; there is only room for DEMONSTRATION. Let's see a demonstration of SPIRITUAL POWER. Lets see what someone CAN DO. It's not about interpreting the presence of the sun; it's SELF-EVIDENCE. NO, there is no room for bad interpretations. It's a matter of PRACTICAL DEMONSTRATION. Prabhupada has led the example. He used to say, "Do what I do." So who doing what HE DID??? He was a single guru. In 10 years set the world on fire with Krishna Consciousness. So who has even come close by lighting a match in the dark? What's the use of NAMING STRAYERS? When Bhaktisiddhanta was asked: "Who would be the next Acharya?". "he replied: ""The Acharya is SELF-REFULGENT, HE CANNOT be appointed.""". [Prabhupada recalls this in a letter to Rupanuga, dated April 28, 1974] You want bureaucracy, you want formulas, rituals, procedures; but we need substance: "SHOW ME THE MONEY". Why not see things as they are? We can see what Prabhupada did. WE CANNOT SEE WHAT OTHERS HAVE DONE. Hundreds of Gurus, so have there been HUNDREDS MORE? Do you think building a system will produce BETTER RESULTS?. No system will replace the ABSOLUTE TRUTH. Your humble servant , Hansadutta das

[@iskconhistoryarchive]

One purpose of my research and writing is to reveal the glories of Srila Prabhupada's disciples who have expanded the Hare Krishna movement since the time of his physical departure. If the question is "show me the money," then one need not look far to find it.

[@gauradas108]

To resolve leadership chaos, are we solving that if the wife become an initiating spiritual master, but the husband is not? Srila Prabhupada stated that a wife's status is dependent upon the position of her husband. If he is a brahmana, she is a brahmani, if he is a ksatriya, then that becomes her status. Gandhari adopted wearing a blindfold so as to not be superior to her husband, out of her chastity and loyalty to him. Does that have any value anymore? Is that an example to follow, or because the west is influenced by feminism, we must follow that example?

[@iskconhistoryarchive]

Hare Krishna Gaura Prabhu, dandavat pranams 🙏 Thanks for your comment. Your points are well-taken. Definitely it is in the best interest of all members of a society to foster a culture of strong marriages and stable families. For those who are still in the grip of material attachment, and whose faith in bhakti is weak, the support of social and worldly religious duties (like service to husband, children, and wife) are all essential. Ultimately, however, Srimad-Bhagavatam rejects all worldly religion as kaitava, or "cheating," because it is based on the bodily concept of life, not the soul. If a person continues to cling to their religious duties based on material designations (man, woman, husband, wife, son, father, brahmin, ksatriya, etc. etc.) then they are disobeying the Lord's order in BG 18.66 -- sarva-dharman parityajya. Furthermore, such material designations (upadhis), if not given up, will prevent one from coming to the platform of pure devotional service -- sarvopadhi vinirmuktam (BRS 1.1.12). Of course, a devotee may continue to externally follow their worldly duties, for the sake of setting an example for others, as Krishna advises in BG 3.20-26. However, advanced Vaisnavas are not beholden to such worldly duties, and they may choose not to follow them for the sake of the higher duty of propagating Krishna consciousness. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura and Srila Prabhupada repeatedly demonstrated this principle in their own lives. Rather than strictly, rigidly following their sannyasa-dharma, they made adjustments for the sake of preaching. Similarly, they engaged their disciples primarily in preaching sanatana-dharma, emphasizing that this is the highest goal of all dharmas (see SB 1.2.6). It is a false dichotomy to say that women cannot both be mothers and gurus. It is also false to suggest that female gurus are the influence of "feminism." There is shastric support for female gurus for thousands of years. This is due to the very simple fact that the role of guru is a spiritual one, beyond bodily considerations. Yes, gurus have traditionally been mostly men. But they have also traditionally been mostly Indians born in Brahmana families. Does this mean that ISKCON should no longer allow devotees born outside of India to be gurus? Srila Krishnadasa Kaviraja rejects all bodily considerations when it comes to who is eligible to perform the role of guru (yei krsna-tattva-vette sei guru haya). Hare Krishna! Your servant, Lokarama Dasa

[@pierreantonio8647]

Not difficult at all simply repeat scriptures like a parrot then you become stupid idiot copy cat ācārya add distorted commentaries and all iskcon gurus are not qualified That is why acbsp got poisoned by his own followers as a punishment.

[@TheVedicStudent]

These are fake gurus after Srila Prabhupada.

[@pierreantonio8647]

Not difficult at all simply repeat scriptures like a parrot then you become stupid idiot copy cat ācārya add distorted commentaries and all iskcon gurus are not qualified That is why acbsp got poisoned by his own followers as a punishment.

[@TheVedicStudent]

What is a regular guru as per Srila Prabhupada’s teachings ? What is the qualification for a regular guru? Several times it’s said the siksa guru becomes diksa guru, so Srila Prabhupada’s books are giving siksa instructions so how can anyone be diksa guru if all spiritual knowledge and wisdom is coming from Srila Prabhupada’s teachings? The whole guru scam after Srila Prabhupada has continued to 2024 that unauthorized system is being exposed left and right. The only real guru in ISKCON is Srila Prabhupada and the rest are just faking it.

[@pierreantonio8647]

Not difficult at all simply repeat scriptures like a parrot then you become stupid idiot copy cat ācārya add distorted commentaries and all iskcon gurus are not qualified That is why acbsp got poisoned by his own followers as a punishment.

[@MitraKirtan]

As quoted, April 6, 1975 "So Kṛṣṇa's upadeśa is Bhagavad-gītā. He's directly giving instruction. So one who is spreading kṛṣṇa-upadeśa, simply repeat what is said by Kṛṣṇa, then you become ācārya. Not difficult at all. Everything is stated there. We have to simply repeat like parrot. Not exactly parrot. Parrot does not understand the meaning; he simply vibrates. But you should understand the meaning also; otherwise how you can explain? So, so we want to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Simply prepare yourself how to repeat Kṛṣṇa's instructions very nicely, without any malinterpretation. Then, in future... Suppose you have got now ten thousand. We shall expand to hundred thousand. That is required. Then hundred thousand to million, and million to ten million.

[@glenb2009]

🙏