Regional Style in Irish Traditional music Fact or Fiction?

[@woodsilver3592]

Interesting video, was always curious about this.

[@TheFiddleChannel]

Thanks! It's a controversial topic, and some people will no doubt hate this video!

[@MrLuridan]

I've always thought "regional fiddle styles" was over-stated. I appreciate your research and thoughts about this.

[@thomasbroadbent9518]

Great video, so glad I've found your channel! As someone from England who picked up the fiddle from sessions and recordings, the idea of regional styles was not much of a concern when I was learning. Speaking to other players and asking where they get their influence from usually lead to specific musicians and recordings rather than where they learnt to play. The whole idea of regional musical styles is inherently cliquey and gatekeeps newcomers. Unless you have some cultural provenance to a place then there's some implicit feeling of having to prove you belong. In any case of learning a musical language developed in part by another culture to your own, problems of cultural appropriation start surfacing. Properly referencing where you found a tune and your sources of inspiration help but there's always some information lost along the way. In the case of a partially oral tradition mistakes do creep in, examples are common and mistakes neglected. The track, 'Morning Nightcap' recorded by Lunata contains the tune Macleod's Farewell by Donald Shaw being misattributed as The Wedding Reel. Fergal Scahill recorded the tune on TotD recently as the Wedding Reel so the mistake still lives on. A similar debate can be felt in the Jazz world with some jazz scenes adopting a culture of strict adherence to the tradition. See Adam Neely's video on, "Is Laufey Jazz" which highlights the discussion.

[@TheFiddleChannel]

Thanks Thomas, glad to hear you find this topic as interesting as I do!

[@michaeltaylor7407]

Thanks Chris. This is a fascinating video!

[@thelightisahead]

A really informative and unbiased look at this topic, delivered coherently and engagingly - super video!

[@TheFiddleChannel]

Thank you!

[@richied9305]

thanks so much for this video. the explanation of the swing timing has helped me quite a bit.

[@TheFiddleChannel]

Thanks Richie, glad you found it useful.

[@AntonBregolas]

I find it rather interesting that those questioning the concept of regional styles are more often than not biased towards Sligo musicians / Sligo style in particular (which previously included the proverbial Coleman-worship). Even some of the comments under this video fall under this Sligo-supremacy :D So it’s great to see some key talking points of both sides of the discourse highlighted in the video regardless of the author’s preference and the conclusions sound quite fair and on point. In my opinion, while the term “regional style” was unquestionably the 20th century invention, the concept itself is key to preserving the natural diversity of approaches to playing Irish music. It encourages the listener to seek out local musicians who are not just those named in oversimplified “top fiddle players” lists but many, many other fine masters of this art, no matter how famous or obscure. Whether one names their style “regional” or “local” or “individual” is not the point - and it’s definitely more than just about the marketing. As long as this diversity of styles is preserved, Irish music will keep evolving naturally as a beautiful well-branched tree with a rich grassroots base as opposed to one streamlined urbanistic lamp post that’s practical and slick but also awfully dull - and prone to being monopolised by some central body proclaiming to hold the “standards” of playing. Now, speaking of international players, many of them are also part of this trend quite aptly described at the end of the video. There is not one “international” style of playing Irish music as each of the learners is an individual with their own teachers and/or influences, and with more experience and awareness come conscious choices of sources for tunes and their stylistic expression. Now that I mention it, up the Sliabhneys! No more controversy on particular borders of Sliabh Luachra necessary because these days “Sliabh Luachra is a state of mind” :D

[@TheFiddleChannel]

Well said, Anton!

[@tehminagoskar2043]

So glad I have discovered your channel. Brilliant videos and inspiring to have this context to my fiddle playing.

[@johncummins3254]

Chris nice discussion. I don't think it matters a bit if you refer to regional or local styles, the bottom line is if you listen to and/or play enough Irish music you will clearly hear differences in how tunes are approached, and if you dig deeper stylistic similarities jump out and make my fiddling more enjoyable for me. For those interested in digging deeper "Fiddler's of Sligo" by Oisin Mac Diarmada and Daithi Gormley is a good read with a bunch of tune transcriptions from the playing of the old Sligo masters. Also "The Tune Compositions of Paddy Fahey" a graduate thesis by Maria Holohan, takes an in-depth look a East Galway fiddling and in particular Paddy Fahey. Chris I'll be signing up for your Jazz courses soon and look forward to it. Thanks John

[@TheFiddleChannel]

Hi John. Glad you enjoyed it! The references you mention look very interesting! I hope you'll enjoy my MusicGurus course.

[@johncummins3254]

@@TheFiddleChannel Chris, I'm an amateur Irish Fiddler who also loves Grappelli style jazz, and thus my interest in your jazz lesson options. I know I have to break out of first position, and spend lots of time on keys and arpeggios which brings me to my question. Where is the best place to start with your lesson options. The books, the online course??? Thanks John

[@TheFiddleChannel]

@@johncummins3254 Hi John. I would suggest my book Beginning Jazz Violin, which sticks mostly to first position and doesn't require much theory. But definitely keep working on third position and arpeggios!

[@johncummins3254]

@@TheFiddleChannel Thanks Chris, John

[@bogbrushify]

Thanks - very interesting. I was able to forward this to my daughter who was asked at a session ‘What style do you play?’ She was flummoxed!

[@TheFiddleChannel]

Thanks Ashley!

[@harryfurphy1491]

Very Interesting. I'm a Co Down fiddle player and as you said there isn't really any regional fiddle from the east of Ireland. But the idea there are different regional styles is very interesting. I've always believed that Irish fiddle style is down to the individual and how they play. I've played with a fella from Offaly and a fella from Clare and none of us played the same. we could still play the tunes together well enough but the Offaly man was very flat in his playing with a very little use of ornamentation, vibrato or smooth bow motions. while the Clare man played in a very fluid motion with plenty if ornamentation and bowed triplets. I like to see other fiddle players play together to see how each fiddle gets through the tune. My playing is a very mongrel type of playing since I've taken bits and pieces from different fiddlers and added it to my own playing which is what i use to believe most us Irish fiddlers did. thank you for the video, it given me some interesting new perspectives on my fiddle playing.

[@TheFiddleChannel]

Thanks Harry, glad you found it interesting!

[@briansutherland9427]

I play the east Down style taught by Willie Savage, Jackie Donnan.

[@Melvorgazh]

Dia dhuit! Very interesting video! I play the guitar and also wondered about the regional guitar styles. But the guitar is maybe too recent to have something noticeable. I can regognise some guitaring by Arty McGlynn or John Doyle but would have no idea on where they come from by just listening to them. You speak fast but yet very clearly and I enjoyed it very much. Just would have loved you mention the mighty Bothy Band musicians. 😛

[@fiddlerbythesea8422]

Did Martin Hayes really trade mark the double roll?

[@TheFiddleChannel]

No, just a figure of speech! I meant it's a characteristic of his playing style.

[@eccles99]

This is very well done... but of course it would be even better if you included more fiddle recordings, to illustrate what you are talking about! I'm assuming that what stopped you are the copyright issues. Have you thought about approaching the rights-holders for permission? Or perhaps you could find some old recordings that have fallen into public domain? Or just get a couple of skilled trad players to emulate all the styles...

[@TheFiddleChannel]

You're absolutely right- it would have been great to have proper musical illustrations. (Though I did get some Michael Coleman at the appropriate spot!). I think KZbin is pretty hot on copyright, so wherever possible I use my own recordings- obviously not appropriate here. When I get hired by the BBC as a senior producer (ha ha) you'll get a five part documentary with all the trimmings!

[@Melvorgazh]

Is there a map with the giotár player styles already?

[@TheFiddleChannel]

That's your job!

[@Melvorgazh]

@@TheFiddleChannel OOhh! I am not even living in Ireland, and I even never traveled all around to local sessions... But I feel honoured. Would be cool to ask Master John Doyle that. Got his contacts maybe?

[@conallgeneral8136]

What did they do before the 18th century ?

[@TheFiddleChannel]

I don't think anyone knows much about that!

[@Melvorgazh]

ps: Brittany IS NOT in France!

[@briansutherland9427]

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

[@kathleenregan9356]

let's face it, everything comes from sligo. when the recordings from america came back everyone made it their business to copy coleman, morrison and killoran

[@Zargblast]

The fact that you call them 'regional styles' shows that you're rather out of touch with thinking on this subject over the last twenty years. The preferred term nowadays is 'local styles'. You'd understand the difference if you consider that there is actually no such thing as a (i.e. only one) Donegal style. Compare the playing of, for instance, Brid Harper (from Castlefinn), Martin McGinley (from Raphoe), Aidan O'Donnell (from Dunkineely) and Ciarán Ó Maonaigh (from Gweedore). Toss into the mix Tommy People and Frank Kelly from Termon, a huge Hughie Gillespie fan. When you've done all that, tell me what the Donegal style is.

[@TheFiddleChannel]

Hi Hermano. You're dead right. I might be twenty years behind, but what you are describing is rather the point of my video :-)

[@kathleenregan9356]

hugh gillespie learned from coleman so i wouldn't say he's a donegal player at all to be fair

[@rosemurphy3597]

​@@TheFiddleChannelyou're not behind the times or old fashioned as the person above is saying, the person who posted above is wrong. I'm a fiddle player involves in trad and people still use the term Regional Styles all the time. There's always someone trying to negate an entire point by being pernickety about terminology 🙄

[@TheFiddleChannel]

@@rosemurphy3597 Thanks Rose. I think I covered both sides of the argument with what I wrote!