Reliable WZRELB 3000w inverter “safety issue” solved!

WZRELB Reliable Inverter, safety issue solved.

[@edwarddoyle9231]

Thank you for all the effort - a very clear video & solution to a very dangerous problem - although you would expect that all units have been quality controlled they are not - I’ve come across this problem before when I connected my 5.5k unit to ground all was fine until i used a small appliance to test - quite a bang , i bought a replacement & did not earth this one i still have the problem so with your video & knowledge i have removed the inverter & will have go to sort it. Thank you for answer to a bad problem. Ed,

[@livingron9983]

It reinforces my view that you have to carefully test all Chinese electrical stuff as if your life depends on it. Thanks.

[@diasmaxey1023]

Very good video! Glad you caught that problem! Going into thorough detail about these inverters are important to everyone who don’t understand much about how these work and should work. I have a 3000w Power Drive with 4 AC outlets. And for the first time in years of having it, I found out by simply looking on the back cover that each AC outlet only provides 1500w and only 1500w on either the left side or right side. Meaning, only 2 outlets on either side will only produce 1500w or 750w per outlet. I always thought I could just plug in anything that was around 3000w in any of the AC outlets. I have not seen anyone making a video about this. Hopefully I explained myself correctly about this.

[@feltonrolle2457]

Yes be careful! My 3000 Reliable blew the fuses at installation. Took me some time to see the terminal wires were reversed!! Switched them 3 years ago! 24/7 since ❤

[@retrozmachine1189]

This has been a known problem with Reliable inverters for more years than I care to remember. It's due to the design. There isn't anything wrong with the wiring of the terminal strip per se. It's more of an incorrect assumption by the end user. It gets even worse on their 120/240 units that can come with 4 terminals. It might make more sense to people in the USA if they are referred to as 120V/60V split phase inverters (ie your usual supply arrangement of 120/240 but at half the voltage). The three wires on the terminal strip are better described as 60V L1, 60V L2 and neutral as are the pins in the sockets. Would you take the neutral of a 120/240 supply and tie it to L1 or L2? Of course not. Things will go badly if you do. Same here. For isolated stand alone plugin appliance applications this is all fine. The appliance will get 120V between line and neutral pins. Both will see 60V to the earth wire. An earth fault, say line or neutral to earthed appliance chassis will see the inverter go into short circuit protection. The 60V on the chassis is not intrinsically dangerous, unpleasant sure if it was applied across you which it isn't, but it is not applied across you since with the inverter used correctly it is an isolated supply so there is no return path for that 60V on the earth wire/chassis across you and back to the inverter. It's only when people try to connect up premises wiring and believe they have a 120VAC single phase inverter and connect when they believe to neutral and earth to their premises wiring which likely has a N/E link in their main panel and then, shorted and things go badly. It used to be that the 'earth' terminal was also tied to the chassis. Beware that without knowing what you are doing you can create a hazardous situation where the whole chassis has 60VAC on it relative to the ground you walk on. 60VAC usually won't kill you but it will be rather unpleasant if you get yourself across it. Also be aware that testing with a digital multimeter may well show voltage between the line/neutral pins and the earth pin even if the inverter is not of a similar design to the Reliable since the meter imposes almost no load. It may simply be noise suppression capacitors or parasitic capacitance in the inverter causing the half line voltage to appear on the earth pin. A light load between the pins being measured addresses that. Needless to say this is not territory for the average man of the street. All of this can kill you if you get it wrong. Not all portable inverters have this design but typically none of the manufacturers tell you about how their unit is configured.

[@WattsinWattsout]

I tested the earth ground wire from the connected panel with the meter and got 0.2v to earth connection and under 1.4amp load (can opener) it did not fluctuate. If you disconnect all the circuit board terminal wires (ground, neutral, and hot. Only the hot will trigger the 120v sniffer. If you connect the wires factory style the sniffer will trigger on both the neutral and hot circuit board connections. IEC code does not recommend wiring the outlet neutral with a hot connection. This causes the 60v 60v split. I bought the white unit because the Amazon description said “Earth connection for both PCB Board and output”. I found it to be wired exactly like my other unit which does not list earth ground in product description. Once I saw the cross wiring of the outlet I carefully tested the unit and found it to be 120v hot and 0v neutral and ground.

[@retrozmachine1189]

@@WattsinWattsout From what I've seen on the internet it's a real hit and miss with Reliable and you never really know what is in the box. The still advertise Chemicon capacitors in them. Interesting that your unit does do 120V alone as some of them definitely use a bipolar HVDC supply (2 caps in series in the HVDC supply and using the centre as 0 volt for the PWM output) instead of H bridge and have the 60-0-60 issue. Perhaps in some weird way they think this is normal and deliberately wired yours up to achieve that? God only knows. It can be even worse in areas of the world that use 230ish single phase. They have been known to supply 120/240 designs and just told people to hook between the two live terminals and ignore the 'neutral'. Real pigs breakfast. Personally I wouldn't buy one with what I know.

[@retrozmachine1189]

​ @WattsinWattsout One thing that just popped into my head regarding the bipolar types. At one stage they had linked the 0 volt on the LV side with the 0 volt on the HVDC side meaning you could get a serious shock between the AC side and the battery terminals if you managed to come in contact with both. You seem to not have a bipolar one but it wouldn't hurt to check if this is an issue with yours. Since you are a cluey chap I'll let you decide which way is best to test. With that I'll leave you alone from Down Under.

[@WattsinWattsout]

@@retrozmachine1189agreed, I think a lot of reviewers have pushed these to extremes to test wattage output using both the terminal bus and the outlets. Unknowingly playing with fire if they are wired this way (cross polarity). There are also repair videos replacing fets and fuses and I’ll bet some of those units had the cross polarity issue. When you look at the layout for the terminal bus they should have moved the red hot to the car right so the factory tech would see this and put the red wires in the right and the black in the left. This would correct the outlet connections.

[@Gary-wh7ce]

I just stay away from anything that is not UL or ETL compliant and check the readings......thanks for the video

[@allenmaner6616]

I could be wrong but looks like on their outlet the hot side they have a red and black wire. When you change their red and black blocks you still have a red and black connected to the hot side of the receptacle. You still are cross contaminated in my eyes how does this work? Still scratching my head.

[@WattsinWattsout]

That is the voltage meter. The small wires and it reads ok either way. Those wires run to the led meter only. I thought I might have to reverse them but it reads normal.

[@allenmaner6616]

OK I'll give it a try fingers crossed.

[@davebruessow6842]

That's totally unacceptable and Amazon needs to be transparent about the failure of this "Sold by Amazon" product. I was just looking at it and absolutely will not buy it for the very reason of this exposure of fraud/incompetence. Lord knows what else is wrong with it (that you can't see)...

[@solarcharging9743]

All high frequency, transformerless inverter are dangerous. Without an output transformer to provide galvanic isolation between the DC boost stage of these inverters and their AC output, they can send high amperage, DC current straight through to your AC loads and set them on fire.

[@pjfsr7024]

I bought a 3kw 12 v inverter ( different company ) , before anything related to plugging it in I did a continuity test on all three outlets and the three screws for output. My findings were : Outlet one was okay except open ground, outlet two I had reverse neutral and line, but the ground screw and ground on outlet showed continuity, Outlet three, reversed hot and neutral and open ground. Sent e-mail told the company what I found, they asked me how I tested and I told them , with a multi-meter and that their unit would not be safe and I would return it; They got back to me saying to keep the inverter and they promptly replaced my money into my bank account. After wondering what to do, I decided to open it up and what I found was this unit was faulty because of a 10 Cent piece of circuit board where the neutral of socket two was soldered on circuit board to the hot of socket 1 and socket two's hot was soldered to the neutral of socket one and socket two fed socket three . I took my Dremel, cut the board between socket 1 and socket 2 and re-soldered two and three correctly and connected all three ground s of the plugs together and everything works fine still floating neutral , but tested it with a bonding GN plug and socket tester test good. I'm getting a small panel where I'll bond inside for the ground and neutral and make it correct like a mini home system.

[@tedjelsema782]

this way past the electrical understanding of your typical cabin folk

[@mrmomb]

Thanks for the video, very informative. I wish this was filmed horizontally so that I could make out more detailed.

[@shawnd567]

I get normal 120 on mine

[@WattsinWattsout]

is it the model with the white outlet layed out sideways?

[@shawnd567]

​​@@WattsinWattsoutYes. Btw Black is considered Hot in USA wiring.

[@roosterprice]

How has your system been working since this fix and video was posted? Thank you very much

[@WattsinWattsout]

@@roosterprice yes, I have three of these WZRELB inverters running now. They are powering my off grid cabin, a shed and an ac unit for the cabin. These inverters last many years if you don’t abuse them by maxing out the wattage. Like a car if you don’t drive at top speed all the time it will last longer. I keep them at 70% or lower draw and they have been flawless.

[@roosterprice]

@@WattsinWattsout That is great! I applaud your work and sharing. Please clear up one thing for me. I plan to send that phase through a transfer switch to my circuit box that has a bonded ground neutral to earth and attach to a few select circuits. I noticed removed that you removed the ground connections to the board and the receptacles on inverter. Was that to demonstrate a point or were you saying that this is part of the process? Thank you

[@WattsinWattsout]

@@roosterprice it was to demonstrate. They are connected again. If you are wiring it to a panel with a transfer switch the panel ground should be used.

[@roosterprice]

@WattsinWattsout Thanks again! I'm very thankful for your assistance.

[@roosterprice]

@@WattsinWattsout Im using the same brand, 24v 5000w inverter for my set up. I'll send you some photos and an update when I finish.

[@davef.2329]

Thanks for this.

[@Janixu139]

Thanks for the video. My husband is going to check my inverter.

[@7graydesigns491]

I have this inverter (24v 3000w). It seems the neutral and the hot are switched on both plug in outlets. I get 60v from hot to ground and from neutral to ground on the three terminals no matter if something is plugged in or not. Any suggestions?

[@WattsinWattsout]

Stay tuned I’m making another quick video and will try to explain it more clearly. I’ve also received an email response from the WZRELB customer service dept. which I will show. I will be reaching out to xyzinvt as well and report back on their response. The 60v phenom can be eliminated by using a simple neutral to ground bond or wired connection. A small piece of wire can do this at the terminal bus. However, if you do this with the outlet wired incorrectly and with no load on the inverter an outlet reader/gfci tester will show the “hot neutral reverse at the outlet. The 60v will go away but it is not a good idea to load up the inverter in this condition. Especially if you are using the terminal bus and outlets at the same time. Correcting the polarity of the outlet and marking the terminal bus to reflect the change will get rid of the 60v issue as long as you bond the neutral and ground terminals. Watch some videos on how to properly earth ground the unit if using it long term. If it’s for a car or boat earth ground may not be optional but this should be ok to ground to the chassis in that situation. For me earth ground is important as I am using a main panel with a transfer switch for a backup generator and may need an inspection. When I pull a solar system permit. Now I am running low voltage Solar (no series) but will eventually up the ante. By the way I also have a WZRELB 24v 3000watt inverter that I just checked and it is wired correctly. It is the black model with the 200amp outlet placed sideways in the bottom of the faceplate. It also has usb ports. I was very happy to see this as it somewhat confirms my belief that they simply misread the diagram or technical drawing for assembly at the factory. 3000Watt Pure Sine Wave Power Inverter 24VDC to 120VAC 6000W Peak Built-in Soft Starter Dual AC Outlets 2× 2.4A USB Port &Hardwire Terminal Off-Grid Solar Converter RV Trucks (U5-300024) a.co/d/id0cSWt

[@shawnd567]

Typically black isnt neutral. Black is considered hot in US wiring.

[@WattsinWattsout]

For residential yes, but red is also used as hot or line wires for 220 circuits.

In the setup you show here, is the ground inside the inverter still connected to the chassis and the circuit board as it is wired from the factory? I saw in your other videos, that you disconnected them at some point.

[@WattsinWattsout]

I disconnected it temporarily to show that it was not being used as a neutral return line for the 60v + 60v theory. I attached the chassis and case ground and ran it overnight and the power draw was the same over 12 hr. I now have it earth grounded with neutral ground bond in the panel after switching the red and black wires as shown. I tested 0.1v from the floating system (for the test) to the circuit board ground lug.

[@scottharmon5334]

Please check your inverter for this issue. If you have it wired to a panel via the terminal bus and use the outlet there will be a 60-60 power split. Mine just tested like this.

[@MrVeryCranky]

They are NOT a split phase inverter. They are single ended.

[@lesliegreen1688]

i have one of this inverter 3500w need the driver board does anyone know where to get it to buy

[@WattsinWattsout]

WZRELB sells a rebuild kit with fets, resistors and a couple of boards. You have to email them.

[@jasonsmith6033]

Cool

[@kevinroberts781]

It's not just this brand. Every single brand HF invertor 5kw and lower are wired like this. I have never seen one that wasn't. LF inverters seem fine. At least the ones I have used.

[@kickgas7171]

This inverter is ok for loads like a laptop, charging your phone or powering incandescent lights etc, but powering inductive loads like refrigerators, microwaves, power tools or motors will damage the MOSFETs in these high frequency inverters and WILL seriously shorten their life expectancy. If you want to power inductive loads like refrigerators, microwaves, power tools or motors, then I would highly recommend spending a little more money and buying a low frequency, transformer based inverter instead. It will last far, far longer and you'll be able to run inductive loads without damaging your inverter.

[@WattsinWattsout]

I have a 3000w that has been running a full sized fridge for over 3 months. I also ran a swamp cooler 120w and a 12000 btu ac with the fridge and it didn’t struggle. I run 2awg cables 24v and have 8 29dc batteries 2s4p with adequate and equal cables using a heavy bus bar. If you starve these inverters for amps (small cables not enough battery amps) and or overdraw or exceed the rated wattage then they will get damaged. People have used these for years and for the price they make a good starting point for an off grid system. Low Frequency inverters are more durable and can surge higher for longer periods which makes them a solid choice for long term energy needs. However, they do use a lot more current at idle in most cases so battery bank sizing may be an issue. They cost much more as you know so they are out of reach for many.

[@kickgas7171]

3 months of powering an inductive load is doable for some Chinese made high frequency inverters. Please let me know how your high frequency inverter is doing after a year's worth of inductive load stress. Right about the time that the warranty runs out is when we typically get service request calls for these low surge capacity inverters. With a $125 per hour shop rate with a 2 hour minimum, unfortunately they're usually not worth repairing and the customer simply buys a new replacement, which effectively doubles the cost of these cheap inverters.. @@WattsinWattsout