Remote Work Won | Prime Reacts

Recorded live on twitch, GET IN
/ theprimeagen
Become a backend engineer. Its my favorite site
boot.dev/?prom...
This is also the best way to support me is to support yourself becoming a better backend engineer.
Article link: www.hottakes.s...
By: Adam Singer
MY MAIN YT CHANNEL: Has well edited engineering videos
/ theprimeagen
Discord
/ discord
Have something for me to read or react to?: / theprimeagenreact
Kinesis Advantage 360: bit.ly/Prime-K...
Hey I am sponsored by Turso, an edge database. I think they are pretty neet. Give them a try for free and if you want you can get a decent amount off (the free tier is the best (better than planetscale or any other))
turso.tech/dee...

[@VinitNeogi]

Me spending 3 hours per day commuting to office just to attend zoom calls with my colleagues who are all from another timezone

[@kaerakh4267]

Yeah I think this is probably one of the strongest arguments against RTO initiatives. If the entire team is scattered, it doesn't make any sense. The rest of it gets murkier.

[@hakooplayplay3212]

I'm working from home and have only 2 team calls a week. All working questions solved by team chat or 5mins 1v1 calls. And it's just great.

[@v0id_d3m0n]

​@@kaerakh4267in that case you can set up a "team day" where everyone in your team comes into the office on the same fay each week

[@tHebUm18]

I didn't have that painful of a commute, but pre-pandemic half my teams were always in another city so all meetings were remote. Aside from mentorship as a junior (with a same location mentor, which wasn't always the case), being in the office always felt pretty pointless with the respect to work when almost all meetings were digital anyway.

[@epotnwarlock]

95% of in office conversations: "dude have you played yet?" "what do you guys want for lunch?" *team spends 15 minutes sharing panda related memes*

[@KM-zd6dq]

I think its a company culture thing

[@-Jason-L]

Human interaction is not something to avoid.. and what about the other 5%?

[@kyuthefox]

you have forgoten about "have you seen ", standup beeing people standing in a circle and saying 1 by 1 what they are planning to do(visible on kanban), In 1,5 years I only had once a standup where when I said that I was stuck/idle ing that the group help me or gave me a task. I hade more luck writing my lead an email and getting a response/help half a day later.

[@DaverSomethingSomething]

@@-Jason-Lhuman interaction is not something to avoid, but it seems like you should be arguing against the 95/5 split rather than trying to justify the ROI on 5%. Because the business people sold on return-to-office aren’t buying into it for just 5%.

[@patcher2944]

And then Social media handler comes with camera let me take your photo tomorrow is your birthday

[@orderandchaos_at_work]

The commute is the nail in the coffin for in office work. I save several thousand English pounds and 500+ hours of travel time every year. Not to mention the hassle of cancellations and delays. Do not miss standing out in the pouring rain and freezing cold.

[@CentreMetre]

And the bus always being late, or early but not staying until the scheduled time

[@chipdenman863]

I agree with your point, but I also want to point out mass transit in major cities is violent (see Washington, NYC, SF). Until actual safety is returned, remote work must be allowed.

[@georgehelyar]

Yea 1 hour each way, twice a day is 10 hours for a 5 day work week, so that's about 500 hours a year wasted on driving, and for me that was 12,000 miles of wear on my car and exhaust fumes, and around £3000 a year in petrol, and when I work from home I actually work longer hours because that time isn't wasted with commuting. Luckily my work judges people on their achievements rather than their location

[@metaphysicalfuck]

Someone works in post pandemic London 😂😂 I feel ya

[@orderandchaos_at_work]

@@georgehelyar Aye 500ish hours, haha my maths is shocking…

[@daves.software]

The thing for me is that my in-office days are a hassle and don't add any value. Why does it matter if I go into the office to sit on MS-Teams calls, or if I stay home and sit on MS-Teams calls? Only 1 person on my team is local. Everyone else is full-time remote from other states.

[@SimGunther]

If there's a meeting that actually adds value that couldn't be done remotely, that'd be the only time I'd be willing to have an office day. Spoilers: this only happens 4-5 times a year, which says a lot about worker bee meetings. For manager meetings, I can see why Elon forced them in office for Tesla years ago.

[@wendellhatcher7011]

Facts!

[@monolith-zl4qt]

@@SimGunther Let's start with the basics: 90% of IT meetings are utterly useless

[@d4rks1gm39]

Same, we've got 1 guy on the team local. No way in Hell I'd ever go back to commuting, especially in Dallas, I'd sooner take a 50% paycut lmao.

[@SimGunther]

@@monolith-zl4qt which is why I mentioned 4 or 5 meetings a year are even remotely useful/valuable while the rest of those meetings could've been a group msg or email.

[@koh-i-noor123]

6:30 - laughs about 68% ppl prefering remote and dismissing the result on the basis that statistics are very inaccurate. 33:40 - runs a poll with his own audience (where remote wins or is on-par with hybrid).

[@ruroruro]

yeah, this is a complete L he basically accused the article author of fabricating/using unreliable statistics without any proof, then banned a guy in chat that called him out on it and later got pwned by his own poll 🤡-agen

[@webdavis]

@@ruroruro Seriously, and him banning that guy makes me lose respect for him. Prime strikes me as a smart guy, but then he has some takes that are so opinionated, but misrepresent the topic, which leads me to believe that he's just lazy. In my opinion, that's worse than being dumb.

[@stendeter623]

@@webdavis I lost a bit of respect for him as well due to this episode. I think he made the decision to ban that guy before even checking the link, he just scrolled through that page with references before banning to find an excuse for his decision and look less volatile and more mature to his audience.

[@guguludugulu]

​@@webdavisyeah, that ban pissed me off: "you told me to check the study before judging it based on nothing? Well you sir didn't personally check all the sources of this study I say based on nothing - begone!"

[@CrispBaker]

This is why RTO always happens with the CEO just imposing it, workers despise it and there's no solid evidence it's needed so they just force it on people and fire anybody who disagrees Prime's CEO material apparently

[@seancooper5007]

The office is where my colleagues are, why the hell would I ever want to go there?

[@penname4764]

I know this is a joke but I'm surprised about the number of upvotes

[@pluto8404]

That is your fAmiLY!

[@IgnisAchilles]

Sometimes not even, my team and stakeholders are distributed across multiple countries. When I am going to the office I will be working remote anyway

[@seancooper5007]

@@IgnisAchilles ditto tbh

[@jordixboy]

@@penname4764 why a joke? your colleagues are not your friends.

[@ruroruro]

9:08 holy shit, welcome to the echo chamber > original article references some statistics to make an argument > "statistics can sometimes be wrong, so you can't trust this" > someone in the comments points out that if he doesn't trust the statistics, he can read the sources > spends like two minutes max looking at the links > "i'd have to comb through these to find it" which is too hard apparently > "why would you believe this bullshit without checking the sources yourself" > bans the guy wtf is Prime talking about here? Yeah, sure, statistics can be bullshit, and you shouldn't blindly believe everything you read on the internet. But isn't it a bit absurd to accuse the article author of lying/misrepresenting/using bullshit statistics and then act offended when somebody asks you to substantiate your accusations. Idk, maybe these statistics *are* actually bullshit, but why would you assume it by default? The author provided his sources, at this point shouldn't the burden of proof lie on Primagen? Edit: lmao, Prime got pwned by his own poll results at the end. So at the very least, the provided statistics were a pretty good predictor for his viewerbase. Prime is on some mega copium.

[@tbunreall]

He clearly doesnt even understand statistics. Small sample sizes can be extremely accurate when chosen carefully. You know, like statisticians do, which prime is not one

[@ybvb]

it's the second comment that got him banned

[@Sunless1337]

This video only has 1k likes, but has 200+ dislikes... that's a pretty bad ratio, and I'm pretty sure it's because of him being very hypocritical with his not reading the studies/sources as he got mad at someone else he told to read the studies/sources.

[@calebpena3729]

One day, someone will actually look through the sources, but until then, we can all yell at each other

[@Afro__Joe]

​@@tbunreallYou really think they chose carefully for that statistic lmfao

[@professornumbskull5555]

Prime when article writers preface what they want to say to lighten the blow: "Give me the meat and give it to me raw" Prime when article writers are blunt about everything from the get go: "This article is gonna be stupid, I can feel it"

[@captainfordo1]

There is a difference between being blunt and being outright aggressive. That title made it clear what the guy’s intentions were.

[@professornumbskull5555]

@@captainfordo1 Just like there is a difference between a joke and a factually correct, objectively true statement.

[@Salamander002]

tbh this blog post is stupidly written and more salty than useful or trying to get a point

[@francesay8478]

@@Salamander002 It's a blog post using tongue-in-cheek humor with a big fat "hot take" label on it. It's really annoying when people will are so blatantly hypocritical in this matter - like when Prime will immediately write off an whole article before even reading it because it has the word "gaslight" in it vs when the article has 15 different prefaces and pre-explanations. You are either being obtuse on purpose or you're incredibly dense.

[@kaerakh4267]

It's more about the communication style. When he asked about the chances that the word colonization shows up I knew exactly what he meant. A person's choice of language has a lot of heuristics packed in it.

[@hahabanero]

As a introvert i thank god for remote work. I can work with ppl as long as i don't need to see or talk to them every 15 min. Just like remote work is not for everyone, working in an office is not for everyone too.

[@brainites]

Perfectly said.

[@mecanuktutorials6476]

I had the opposite experience. At one job, I had to be on call ALL day for several hours for pair programming. The job was WFH but super micromanagement. In office, I am left alone for the most part. But yea, the commute sucks still. Depends on your colleagues and management.

[@funicon3689]

@@mecanuktutorials6476paired programming is such a waste

[@discoRyne]

Just to clarify, introversion != social anxiety. I'm in the same boat but feel like many self-described introverts fall into this trap of avoiding everyone all to fast just because they always assume a layer of bs small talk to be conquered each time someone comes up to them IRL (cue social anxiety woes.) Two introverts ping-ponging ideas IRL and learning their nature of thought is a wonderful thing that can empower online discussions even further.

[@TurtleKwitty]

@@mecanuktutorials6476 That's a micromanagement problem not a remote problem though

[@MrDgf97]

"I think you're the one gaslighting us" The sources were cited and the studies were shown. If you're not willing to read them, fine, but it's very unwise to claim the author is lying if you're not doing your due diligence

[@Ikkepop]

For me as a dad of a young child, there is nothing but upsides to remote work. I try to go to the office, but I just can't feel any benefit to driving 2 hours instead of being with my kid for an extra 2 hours or just getting bit more sleep. There is seriously only one other person I ever speak to in the office and rest of my team is in another country so we have to voice chat anyway, and that requires to find a damn room instead of just connecting and chatting immediatly ...

[@sweetheart7997]

Some banger opinions from this video: - Statistics aren’t real - This author is being hypocritical for sounding upset but not caring when commercial real estate executives get upset - Plumbers need to go into the office - Real estate is a good investment IF you can afford to pay for it but it’s not a way for the rich to get richer

[@snowballeffect7812]

lmao amazing, yet sadly accurate summary.

[@Shrx2th2]

Lol he really banned the guy for calling him out

[@y00t00b3r]

at which timestamp did this happen? I heard it, but I wasn't in the room when it happened.

[@MrC0MPUT3R]

@@y00t00b3r 9:13

[@fus3n]

that guy was kinda on point if he got banned for maybe not doing his research why did prime just skim through it without opening a single link and confirming himself.

[@egorandreevich7830]

@@y00t00b3r 7:47

[@ark_knight]

he does do that sometime. cant you like disagree and move on. oh well.

[@miscbits]

I can't relate to a lot of the takes here. I've been remote working for 4 years now and I cannot see myself going back. When you said towards the beginning that there are things in the office that happen that you can't replicate at home, I actively tried to think of something like that. When I work in office, I collaborate less with coworkers, I get less work done, and I have to commute an hour each way + figure out what to eat for lunch + somehow avoid people who come to my desk to bother me while I am focused on something. When I am at home, I get to design what my workday looks like and choose when to interact with distractions. When I am in the office, I am completely beholden to whoever wants to walk up to me and ask for a favor which happens quite often. Maybe it is because my office sucks/my company is terrible at setting up a good environment for work. Honestly, after the topic of Faang came up and you mentioned Sushi, I think it shows that your view on in office work is maybe skewed. Think about all the people who are working in poorly lit remote factory-esc buildings. I never worked anywhere where they were feeding me free sushi for lunch, and I don't plan on it. I am a game dev, and up until remote work, I've worked in some shitty environments where I felt uncomfortable the whole time.

[@miscbits]

"You help their work a ton in ways that are maybe not possible" Take towards the end that kinda retorts one of my points here. I would say no to this in some ways and agree in others. The thing is that these people who ask me frequent questions, still do, but they do so in teams where I can stay in my current train of thought. If I am working on a piece of code and I have 2 hours planned to go through the module and write some test for it, then I have that time to myself. When the two hours are gone, I can pull up the questions people have and address them/help with their problems. The reality of remote work after 4 years as well is that often I check in on a question 30 minutes after someone asked, and they figured it out themselves anyway. Sometimes they haven't and I do help out still, but in my experience a lot of people asking for help irl just did so because it was convenient and I am bad at saying no to requests. Now that getting my attention isn't something they can force because I can turn off notifications, a lot of people have learned the value of self help. As far as the arguments for junior devs, imo this one is tough to address. I was never a junior dev in the remote work era, but I do work with some junior devs. We have spaces for junior devs to get help from mid to senior level workers and that works quite well in my experience and creates a lot of cross team conversations. We also just still have the ability to screen share, read docs together, and do trainings together. It might be harder for an ambitious junior dev, but there are solutions that don't involve going in office. Like ultimately, remote work has a lot of struggles that didn't really apply to in office, but the same is true in reverse. I don't believe that the problems of remote work can't be overcome. I do believe that the problems with in office work cannot be overcome. That is the hottest take I can have about this.

[@TurtleKwitty]

@@miscbits To add to the question as well, I make sure to enforce a "ask your questions in a public channel for the team" mentality so that if Im not available but someone else is they can answer quicker, but it also helps spread knowledge or reinforce it for things that might not crop up as often like more ovscure parts of the code base. The problem people always run into is trying to do the exact same thing as in person which was never functional (as you mentioned, constant distractions aare really bad for getting work done) instead of adapting to better models that work for all involved

[@lukeskywalker7258]

What do you have to colloborate on with coworkers as someone who is not in the computer science field? Are they all software engineers with different skillsets? And did you specifically apply to a remote job and got it?

[@miscbits]

@@lukeskywalker7258 I work specifically as a data engineer so often times collaboration is looking at data, sharing notebooks, and talking about statistical significance. We also often specialize in one product or domain so we have to share information about products and programs that we aren’t necessarily super knowledgeable about. My job when I started was in person and it moved to wfh. They’ve tried to do a return to office + I’ve survived two rounds of layoffs. Nothing will stick even with fresh employees, they immediately have the expectation that they are going to be grandfathered into the wfh policy.

[@miscbits]

@@lukeskywalker7258 I work as a data engineer, so a lot of the collaboration is working with people who have domain knowledge of their specific products. I work at a company that has lots of different products and we work with thousands of stores across the world, so no one data person at the company knows everything about the company. We basically need to constantly be working together to make sure all of our models line up and that we can be in a state to share information around easily. It is true that a lot of us have specialized skills because of the domains we are in, but I wouldn't say that there is anything specific that one of us could do that anyone else can't. It's just a scale and volume thing. Like even if I wanted to understand every aspect of the business all by myself, it would be somewhat futile. I also was in person when I started this job 5 years ago, and then it became a remote job later on after the pandemic. The lease on the building we were in ended basically a year after we went remote and the company just decided to rent a floor on a smaller building and do the hotel desk thing, so we can come in if we need to. We do sometimes for events or for war room meetings, but its super rare for me personally. I think the company would like the do a RTO if they could, but at this point we have employees all across the country and we don't have a large enough office to accommodate everyone anymore. We have new employees as well who feel "grandfathered" into the wfh situation as well and also basically just assume that it will continue even though many of the people who were here when wfh started have rotated out. Its safe to say for us at least that it just has too much momentum to stop. Truth be told the distinction between hybrid and remote is a little vague and Primeagen seems to talk as if hybrid is proof that in person is still important, but the article author talks about hybrid as if its just as good as full remote. I am here to say that the way my company does it is the absolute best. In office work is always 100% optional and our office gets enough visitors every day to justify it (for now at least). The company pays a fraction in rent that they used to, and workers feel like the office is a resource rather than a prison. When I go into the office it is my own free will and I feel I get a lot out of it. If I were being forced to go in, I would probably run into a lot of the same issues I had before going full remote.

[@colto2312]

no one tell him, that the slaves were fed too

[@623-x7b]

Remote work is extremely shit because you lose physicality: the ability to punch your boss / manager in the face is an important part of a balanced workplace environment.

[@charlesh3127]

Part of a healthy work environment is the monthly sparring with your manager and HR.

[@pluto8404]

by not going into the office you are decreasing work place sexual harrasment and jeopardizing HR jobs. HR has families too! dont you care about their children.

[@MrSnivvel]

@@pluto8404 By children you mean cats and dildos because lets be honest, who are the ones working in HR these days?

[@623-x7b]

@@pluto8404 I'm looking for work so I better retract my previous comment but I'm not going to.

[@THEROOT1111]

I was prepared to argue with this sentence for the first 5 words, but the rest actually give's a balanced chi so... can't argue with solid logic.

[@ericl1421]

I'm pro flexibility. If someone works better remote let them do it. If they work better in office, let them do that. What I don't like is the in office people just want me there as a body because it "feels empty".

[@mortvald]

The truth is managers are the ones bitching about this, they're quacking in their boots knowing they can't justify their job if there is no one to consistently pester

[@MrDgf97]

​@@mortvald The weird thing is that I've seen managers do their job extremely well while remote. Since you can't pester people immediately because they can choose to ignore you until they're free, remote inadvertently makes you consider meetings, mails, and communication in a more calculated manner.

[@Hersatz]

I'm a junior. I work remote. Never had any issue with it from a skill growth perspective. The reviews still get in and I hop on a one-on-one chat with the reviewer whenever there are questions. I still have access to my seniors and other colleagues to lean on and learn from. I still have internet for research. I have a way better home office setup than what I'd have in the office. I can still talk and chat with my colleagues so we aren't isolated at any time of the day. I didn't see any of my junior peers being hindered by the work from home system either. I fail to understand how a junior in remote is bad for him or her because he or she is a junior. It sounds a lot like a management issue to me.

[@violettefemme21]

That’s an interesting perspective. Our most junior hire has been….. interesting. But not on the hard skills. It’s the soft skills of communication and professionalism that have been a lot harder to teach remotely versus in-person.

[@01rnr01]

You’re just probably the right junior to mentor ;) And imho this is a great point / I’m sure good people will strive and weak people will concentrate in “in office” shops…

[@georgehelyar]

Did you work in person before you worked from home? I love working from home, but my personal experience is that new graduates who have never worked in an office are more likely to slack off in their first job when working from home. Also depends a lot on the person of course. Really the main thing is having a work ethic and wanting to contribute and learn. One guy in my team was working 40 hours as a chef while doing his degree remotely so we hired him entirely based on his work ethic before he graduated, and he did his final year of university while working full time for us, and he's been a great hire.

[@Hersatz]

@@violettefemme21 I can see that being an issue. Especially considering the kind of nerdy introvert people who are usually interested in the field. I wrongly assumed that that wasn't much of an issue due to how we don't really have that kind of behaviours at work. It's a good point to bring up. Engaging people to interact online differs from in-person.

[@devinjohnson5759]

@@georgehelyarslack off in terms of deliverables or effort? Because even if a person slacks off time to time, if they get their work done on time, is it that much of an issue?

[@shy-watcher]

I'm pretty sure when Prime is being triggered by his family trauma of "owning real estate" he's not talking about what this article actually discusses (downtown office space). I don't think any owner of a skyscraper changes the lightbulbs in the building and does renovations themselves...

[@0oShwavyo0]

“Never believe statistics.” - Primeagen, 2024

[@guguludugulu]

Yeah, believe primeagen instead - he always right

[@snowballeffect7812]

@@guguludugulu Yeah. You better believe him, or he got that banhammer ready.

[@terranova8890]

Care to elateborate some reasons why in office work is sooo goood and needed? i keep hearing you mention theres things but never say which things or how they are superior to the remote alternative.

[@Pico141]

He claims things like body language are very important... :) (not joking, real primeagen take from a recent video)

[@majesticglue9100]

yeah prime's take on in office is god awful. ridiculous considering he's currently doing remote work, spending time with his family, and doing his side hustle of youtube without dealing with commute. He would be far too gone with the extra commute and dealing with in office politic nonsense if he did go back to in office. What a tool@@Pico141

[@CrispBaker]

It's always this sort of loose nonsense about "collaboration" that they can't back up with anything solid, which is why it's wild that he's desperately denying actual research and statistics in order to back it up

[@zombieguy]

@@CrispBaker The actual research also isn't sold on it only being good though, people get way to worked up over this stuff. There has been several studies showing negative affects on productivity when tasks aren't all sunshine and lollipops and there isn't a complete view whether it harms creativity or not. These conversations are always so draining because people are coming in with bias with their own sources they hold near and dear.

[@CrispBaker]

@@zombieguy There was a study quoted in this very video that made it clear there was no benefit to RTO, which Prime blew off because it wasn't saying what he wanted it to say. Forcing people to commute, or even move across the country, is obnoxious enough that you need a clear reason for it. People hate and resent being forced into the office. "Managers are insecure" isn't enough of one, and neither is vague nonsense about "collaboration"

[@SubVengeance]

But not everyone works in Silicon Valley. There is a little bias here from Prime man himself. I live in the suburbs and managed to buy a 3 floor house, for which monthly i pay 20% less than renting a flat near the offices in city center, which is a shoe box. No commuting means I can squeeze some chores, studying and side project work. Not saying working from office doesnt have perks, it’s just that i am not interested in those perks.

[@NostraDavid2]

I like this take - I too am not interested in going to the office, simply because the perks do not interest me. I still go, once a week, because of socialization, but only because my team mates requested it.

[@jalbers3150]

The salt in these comments is amazing.

[@isodoubIet]

The difference is, the real estate investors are like the worst people in society whereas "remote workers" are just average people who don't want to waste a chunk of their time commuting. It's a fallacious to assume that the latter group being upset would be equivalent to the filthy rich being upset because they'll have to buy a slightly smaller yacht.

[@isodoubIet]

And lol the guy who owns one or two properties is not the one affected by this. All your comments about "oh it's a complicated business" as if there were a bunch of mom and pop shop real estate companies being run into the ground by remote work are incredibly out of touch. These are massive conglomerates. They'll be fine, unfortunately for all of us. Meanwhile, most of our generation can't afford homes largely because these people are eating up all the properties. Saying "oh it's inexperience", "these people are fools" or whatever is just you feeling personally attacked by something that has nothing to do with you. I mean hell, this stuff is difficult for the average person largely _because_ it's hard to compete against these large holdings. You're literally fighting against your own interest.

[@Rohinthas]

@@isodoubIetits nice when you go to the comment section and see someone wrote the exact comment you wanted to leave.

[@isodoubIet]

@@Rohinthas between this and banning that one guy this video was such an L

[@theondono]

By the way, there's 2 types of hybrid: "Here is an office, come whenever you need", and "Here is an office, you're required to be here x days a week". The second is just stupid.

[@lukeskywalker7258]

Is the second pretty much the majority of companies that need software engineers?

[@gediminasmorkys3589]

@@lukeskywalker7258 don't have the stats, but it definitely depends on your direct management. Sometimes top management will recommend "return to office" but won't enforce it, and your direct manager may not even care, as long as you do your job. If, however, corporate decide to enforce your office presence by tracking card swipes, and make it a key performance indicator on which top management bonuses rely, then too bad, you get mandatory office presence.

[@davidspagnolo4870]

The biggest thing for me is that my workspace at home is set up exactly how I want it. I have three 27" 4k monitors and there is no way I'd be able to get that set up in the office. Also, stuff disappears in the office, cables disappear, keyboards and mice disappear. It's annoying to go on a scavenger hunt just to get your workspace set up.

[@-Jason-L]

Sounds like you work with ass holes.

[@kristun216]

Office life should be opt-in

[@Kane0123]

The other thing not discussed, co-working spaces. Going to AN office rather than THE office is actually really nice. I was wfh before Covid, after a few years you can really see a decline. Going to an office with other people who are doing stuff but not stuff with me, is like a perfect environment.

[@orterves]

It is.

[@aj-jc4cv]

So I was explaining to someone what office life is like as a dev, we sit there in an open plan office each with headphones on listening to music. But do you discuss things, I was asked? Oh yes, frequently. How? Using slack. Absolute madness.

[@user-lk2vo8fo2q]

"how do i discuss things? the same way you do: i send them a message on slack or set up a video call because they're on the other side of the country. the only difference is i do this 30 minutes after waking up and you do it after spending your entire morning sitting in traffic." remote is such a natural arrangement if you have people working across time zones. i'm so much more willing to be flexible with my time (read: get on a 10pm meeting with the korean team) if i don't already have eight hours of my day hard booked for work. so many californians will never get this because they're used to the world revolving around their workday. i swear to god all it would take to sell CEOs on the merits of remote work is to make them work from a branch office for like a single month.

[@JP-hr3xq]

Forget every other argument, the fact that I can spend time with my kids instead of commuting to an office is all I care about. If I had to work at the office, I would see my young daughter only on weekends since I'd have to leave before she wakes up, and get home when she's going to bed. Working from home means I can spend quality (and quantity) time with her seven days a week. No amount of free coffee and vibrant paint colours will ever top that. Also I have a swimming pool at home and all the nice stuff in the fridge belongs to me.

[@monstercameron]

One anecdote that makes Prime wrong is you still need to use whatever chat tool to talk with other teams in different offices/floors. I still need to slack/teams xyz team memmber on xyz team anyway to collaborate. The only difference is I've gotten up early, got ready for work, commuted, had to have a bunch of extroverted office chatter, then still had to slack with this other team anyway. How is that better? Collaboration is a false flag attack

[@francescobrizi4940]

Fast unrequested history fact: remote work is way older than "since the 90s". Some years ago, talking about a revolt in a conference, an historian very famous in Italy explained how in the 14th century in Florence it was common use for wool industrial to distribute their unfinisced work home to home to a network of workers complete a particular task. The wool was then collected and given to anoter worker to continue the process. Doing the work somewhere other than home didn't provide any benefit, so it was not pratice

[@adamsinger]

Appreciate the live review of my post!

[@y00t00b3r]

you article was a little salty... but then again, the site is called HOT TAKES! your deliverable has passed all checks and reviews.

[@NostraDavid2]

It was pretty scathing, but I think most people disagreed with Primeagen in the end.

[@adamsinger]

Not everyone has to agree with each other, it's the internet@@NostraDavid2

[@snowballeffect7812]

How dare you include statistics and citations that a streamer has no time to click and read through? Also disappointed you didn't say wage slavery or better yet, colonialism, like prime was hoping for.

[@TheWinteste]

don't give up, don't go to the office

[@bonkbonk123]

Remote work helps people from lower socioeconomic backgrounds, ppl with families and ppl with friends that want to enjoy life.

[@brinckau]

A company cares about what helps the company. Even if their commercials say that they're trying to make the world a better place.

[@Sticky1254]

yeah companies would literally turn you into soylent green if it made them money. you are nothing but a little pawn. @@brinckau

[@lukeskywalker7258]

​@@brinckauso do they readily offer remote or hybrid to juniors?

[@THEROOT1111]

@@brinckau The funny thing is that it does indeed helps the company too with unecessary expenses, but it needs a plan, and skilled management, so you start to get what's the problem here... :p

[@brinckau]

@@lukeskywalker7258 Probably not.

[@nickwilson7241]

On the day my team was forced to come back to the office, my manager decided to have an impromptu meeting to catch up on a few things. While notmally we would all just hop into teams and, you know, have the meeting, this time we had to find a conference room ro meet in. In order to have a meeting in one of the conference rooms, we couldn't just walk into an empty room, we had to book the room so we could make sure not to get kicked out. In order to book the room, we had to set up a teams meeting and copy it into the office calendar, and list the specific conference room as the location, and then when we got into the room we all had to accept and join the virtual teams meeting in order to be allowed to have our in person meeting. Needless to say, that whole process was sooooooo much more efficient and beneficial to how we have been conducting meetings previously from home

[@donkeykong315]

In office is BS at my place. Every single meeting is still on zoom. Every single task I do is still on a computer with almost no collaboration with co workers. If I do need help, guess what? I teams them and wait for a response like I would from home.

[@lukeskywalker7258]

As someone who is just getting into this field, how do you "team" them? Is this just like an email or zoom invite? It's wierd that you guys are just collaborating all online anyways even in office. Some of the mentions I have seen are collaborations happen with meetings and stand up meetings throughout the day so does that not happen everywhere?

[@donkeykong315]

@@lukeskywalker7258 teams message. Similar to a slack or discord message.

[@donkeykong315]

@@lukeskywalker7258 means I message them on teams. Similar to discord or slack.

[@donkeykong315]

@@lukeskywalker7258 “teams” meaning send a message on Microsoft Teams.

[@bananesalee7086]

my manager is basically remote, never meet him in office, but he enforces RTO like his life depends on it, this basterd

[@NostraDavid2]

The classic "rules for thee, but not for me!". What a fucking dodo.

[@BrazilMentionedHueHue]

My take is that, if we had widespread good urban design and affordable houses around the world, I wouldn't mind hybrid, however we don't, so I think remote is the way for the majority of cities and we have to deal with its disadvantages

[@user-lk2vo8fo2q]

especially since its disadvantages mainly impact employers, management, and real estate investors. even if remote work were statistically less productive, as a worker, i only care about being productive to the extent that it gets me things in return. if whatever productivity boost i get from returning to office doesn't translate to enough of a salary increase to offset the costs and time commitment associated with commuting, then it's not something i'm ever going to support.

[@SedBuildsThings]

Fundamentally, stuff like this will be hard for you to accept. You are an office worker, in your soul.

[@01rnr01]

One of the things I’m most happy about is that I was able to change my mind on this 180 (I didn’t think remote could work before the pandemic xD )

[@JJarosze9595]

Most of his controversial takes are just him justifying his own bias and ignoring statistics because he's done A/B testing (which obviously makes you a master at understanding studies). It's one thing to be skeptical of a stat, check the method it was found through, and try to reproduce it to decide if it's BS or not and it's another to hand-wave it off as too small a sample size after just reading the title of the study and its abstract. Yeesh

[@CrispBaker]

@@JJarosze9595 It's weird how he's so incredibly desperate on this subject, trying to say "actually research and statistics don't work and don't matter" because it doesn't back up his biases

[@isodoubIet]

@@JJarosze9595 Yeah and you know trying to dismiss a sample of 600 as small is pretty silly. It could be that the sample is not representative, sure. There could be problems in how it was picked, there could be correlations making the usual statistical tools over-optimistic, maybe. But assess that first before declaring that 600 is small.

[@SedBuildsThings]

@@JJarosze9595 or like, he's just a regular human doing what he likes to do and doesn't really need to be accountable to weird standards like that because he's not a robot. Personally, I'd rather him have a personality than just be en emotionless stat machine.

[@ragectl]

"Would you hire someone from Regina, Saskatchewan?" Wait until Primeagen hears about outsourcing to India 😂

[@Daniel_Vital]

Banning everyone that doesn't agree with you its childish behaviour.

[@snowballeffect7812]

Ok but what fool actually believes in statistics or scientific evidence, huh? Pshh. Wage slavery is good, actually. So is owning investment property and other legal forms of rent-seeking behavior.

[@JoeStuffzAlt]

Corporate real-estate is expensive, and companies realized that "wait... we need less real-estate this way". I work better in an office, except when the office is cramped and/or noisy. When it's noisy and/or cramped, I start to work better from home where I can blast my own music instead of hearing the office noise. The testing team notifications (they didn't have their own office, which they should have) + random meetings + all sorts of noises = loss in my concentration

[@CrispBaker]

Yeah that's why "collaboration" is a load of BS, that's what they used when they were talking about open-plan offices where you have to wear headphones or you can't work for all the distraction "Collaboration" to guys like Prime is when they go to some rando's computer and loudly annoy everybody in the room, everybody despises that guy

[@complexity5545]

Remote work is one of the benefits about computer programming jobs. Most industries don't have it like that. The behavior charts of many programming companies used to seek out autodidact (loners) that can finishes projects on time. Other industries need a boss to motivate the herd; those types also hate being alone. Prime strikes me as the type that needs peer stimulation. I can't imagine him going the loner route. I'm still trying to figure out how he does video streaming and work at the same time. It blows my mind.

[@LikeALeafOnTheWind]

i started out my dev career in a cube in downtown Boston in the 90s. decided to move west and my company didnt want me to go. so i offered up the remote idea. just need an isdn line. and it worked, great. stayed with them remote for 10 years and then remote at the next job since. if your work is on the machines theres no reason not to be remote. no commute. never again.

[@keyboardwarrior34]

I think what people forget about the in-office vs remote working argument is when you're working in-office typically your commute is 1-1.5 hrs each way so a 2-3 hour burn of time thus being burnt out in general just does not seem worth it also considering whatever the cost of your time is lost for that if I have to go in the office but subtract the time for my commute AND the cost of the commute then we can have a conversation otherwise its just a waste of time/money for the employee and a waste of money/value for the company because I would personally be burnt out after some time of commuting like that making my work less cared for

[@informativem5248]

Can we at least agree that 100% in office work sucks?

[@guguludugulu]

Honestly, I don't agree. I'm working from home for 4 years already, last two of those exclusively. I'm fine working from home and I prefer it to office work, but I'd like to be able to go to office sometimes, it can be fun. This vid's BS though, prime really dropped the ball here.

[@marcisupenieks1641]

Yep.

[@PaulZyCZ]

I can imagine moving to a village far from any city and work fully remote, one day. Clean air, no drunk singers at 3 AM, truck doors slamming at 4 AM, followed by cars racing just below the balcony... also no doctor nearby or grocery shop in miles or even pub and you can get some unpleasant nightly visitors, but you can live far from a city, wake up at 9 AM (or when somebody starts the buzz saw), do the work, take a dog outside few times a day, finish all the work work and choir work before the night at your own pace.

[@monolith-zl4qt]

Hybrid work is the worst. In Europe many countries are "mono cities", which means the whole country is one city and the vast majority of the population is spread out across small towns. As a company - strictly looking from their interest - how are you going to hire those people if you only offer "N days a week remote"? It's just stupid, but if you allow remote then you can quadruple your labour force. And no, not everyone has cars or wants to drive/commute in this continent.

[@lukeskywalker7258]

Are the companies usually strict when they offer only x amount of days a week remote and expect you to come into office the other days?

[@monolith-zl4qt]

@@lukeskywalker7258 I have no idea. Haven't seen an office since 2018

[@pianissimo7121]

Ok hear me out. I agree that WFO has its advantage, I agree WFH has its advantage, but Hybrid is the absolute worst. We have Tuesday and Thursday and its always different people, no1 comes 2 days a week. at most 1 day a week and sitting in an office that can accommodate 100 people with 5 people is just depressing.

[@daltonyon]

I visited most of the realities and 99% remote work won

[@funicon3689]

as a neurodivergent person, in-office is just not feasible. particularly these open offices where it isnt really necessary, and the constant distractions decrease my productivity and increase my anxiety, leading to faster burnout. he says that some ppl arent "made" for remote work... well some of us arent made for in-office

[@xybersurfer]

well said. people often forget the opposite side

[@lukeskywalker7258]

Have you been able to get hybrid or remote because of this?

[@TankorSmash]

Prime: I hate it when people preface their comments and couch them. Also Prime: "Is it possible there's other options... This article got me all hot and bothered."

[@HMan2828]

Been working from home for 3 years, have been to the office maybe 3-4 times in total... I don't have a wife or kids, so for me remote work is ideal, I see no value in wasting 1.5 hours a day in commute and losing an hour of sleep in the morning to go to the office... My employer adapted properly when the cov hit, reduced their office space, transformed it into a floating seats setup. I see value in going to the office for people who have distractions at home, but for me, no point at all. Only real disadvantage is I gained some weight...

[@xybersurfer]

makes sense. i love my remote work too. even with a shorter commute, it makes a huge difference. i've found that i can mitigate weight gain by doing some exercises when i'm pacing around anyway

[@lukeskywalker7258]

Chance of remote work like that for a new CS grad?

[@firstlast-tf3fq]

In office is not fundamentally for juniors 😂 I’ve never worked in an office as a software engineer, I’m now an extremely successful technical lead… you can learn and develop just fine remotely

[@Longlius]

All my juniors grew up like me - playing online games and hanging out discord. It's not hard to mentor them remotely at all.

[@isodoubIet]

My juniors, all of which are remotes whom I've never met, are doing awesome.

[@01rnr01]

As to enslaved - The golden handcuffs are a known term…

[@Xerophun]

I've worked my entire career remote save for a few months in an open office, later in my career. Those few months were the least productive and miserable I've ever been. I'm sure there are those who work in-office but why force the issue either way? Find an in-office team, or find a remote team. The middle ground makes neither group happy.

[@lukeskywalker7258]

Was it easy to land remote work before? What was your resume like as someone who is just about to enter this field. It seems there is too much competition and many say don't even expect remote.

[@Xerophun]

@@lukeskywalker7258 It was and still is about knowing what industries see value in remote work and which don't. Network and have a reputation for being a problem solver and someone to have around. Realize that remote is a tradeoff. No FAANG, no status jobs, no stock options. Mostly hard cash and lots of it. In exchange you get flexible working conditions and far more time in your day and the ability to live almost anywhere you want. My first few resume items weren't W2 jobs. I am a competent salesman and know how to market myself. I went FTE after my first few independent gigs because I was tired of working 18-20 hour days chasing jobs to keep food on the table. Afterwards I dropped those and started listing only FTE job lines. The way to be successful at anything is to do the things no one else wants to do. And my resume reflects that. I still work long hours but I also have other side gigs that I couldn't have if I were obligated to sit in an office and burn 2-3 hours a day in traffic. If you have hustle and are self-motivated, remote is for you. If you're looking for a vacation with the occasional zoom call, look elsewhere.

[@mick_io]

The shitty equipment provided by my employer(s) is perhaps my least favorite aspect of in office work. In my experience, a typical in-office developer position provides you with $3k laptop and one or two $150 monitors. I’ve invested generously in my WFH setup since COVID. It’s unlikely any employer would be willing to provide me with the same equipment in office.

[@xybersurfer]

that's terrible. i expect the setup to be good in the office. but i prefer WFH even if my setup is a bit worse

[@lukeskywalker7258]

What's your setup?

[@MrCradleman]

I will never ever go back to the office by free will!

[@Waitwhat469]

retreats, conferences, and meetups are able better than office work to me. The office is otherwise a burden for the remote workers doing work. A fully remote team is great, an in office team ok, a hybrid full remote and in office is the worst of both worlds.

[@Waitwhat469]

Balancing cohesion with flexibility should be the primary concern imho

[@hinzster]

10:30 - I think the expression you're looking for is "gilded cage".

[@snowballeffect7812]

golden handcuffs

[@MrDgf97]

I go to the office twice a week. Honestly, once would be the sweet spot for me. The offices kinda suck (small spaces, bad AC, non-functioning elevators, not enough parking for everyone, etc.) and I can't get anything done because everyone in my team is very friendly and very chatty. Getting to know your teammates better is cool -- and even as an introvert I need some sort of social interaction -- but I end up with more work than when I came in. However, just like you Primeagen, there are some people whose needs are better met when working fully remote. You say you don't like it, yet you've been working like that for 4 years. I'm not aware of your situation, but I assume it has to do with the needs of your family, which would be perfectly understandable. Should others not be afforded the same chance? More and more companies are forcing a full RTO, meaning not even a hybrid model would be afforded. It feels like a petty attempt to assert control over employees

[@zdrux]

Office is exactly the same as home, but with more noise, distractions, and travel time.

[@protocj3735]

21:30 In Tokyo you have 20 floors of stores/restaurants/etc. before offices start, so it's possible to repurpose at least partially.

[@monstercameron]

yeah Im here rn and its so strange that you'll have boutique shops and cafes randomly on the 5f and 6f -for examples.

[@AndrewTSq]

In office work for me is completely useless. Its very rare to have good meetings also. 95% of the time is that people for some reason have to present themself, and also talk about their dogs new puppies. Then last 5% of the meeting is like "oh, we are behind schedule, so I will just send the presentation after the meeting".. This is great having to commute 3 hours a day for this.

[@lukeskywalker7258]

How many meetings are in a day?

[@AndrewTSq]

@@lukeskywalker7258 In worst case it is a 45 minute meeting.

[@SimGunther]

🎵 They fought the home office and... the home won 🎵

[@robgrainger5314]

The article seems to be talking about remote work generally, not just in programming, so describing, for example, working in a call center may be quite a different experience to working for a FAANG company - and much more comparable to slavery.

[@newsofthenerd]

Prime talking out of his 8ss about real estate. His mom owned that means she is way way better off then most. Also did she own or did the bank own it. Those 2008 people didn't own anything they had the right to pay a loan they couldn't afford the bank owned it. Real estate is almost always the absolute best thing to own it always goes up. It does make the rich richer.

[@chewysfish6967]

companies where the office workers are a mix of high school bullies and competent adults being taken advantage of by the bullies can only be improved through the removal of in office time and the separation of the bullies and the competent people.

[@ErazerPT]

We packed our hw to take home the Friday before our first lockdown because someone had inside info it was actually going to go down. So, it's been 4y stuck in my home office... And it's been driving me nuts ever since... On the flip side, my colleagues that had to do 4h commutes (2+2) now don't "waste" 20% of their day. And we don't all get sick every time someone gets sick. Still, i rather do hybrid tbh.

[@Muaahaa]

Was just talking with a family member that recently was changed from remote to hybrid. Their team is spread out across the country so he is just sitting alone all day at his desk outside of jumping onto video calls. The company tracks their badge taps to enter the office and makes sure they've connected to the office wifi some number of times per week.

[@violettefemme21]

That seems so pointless. Where I am, my department is fully remote since we are all over the country. Other departments out of my office are basically remote but go in once or twice a month… because 90% of their department will be there.

[@Muaahaa]

@@violettefemme21 I'd say worse than pointless. The person doesn't plan to stay by the end of this year. This is what you see at some larger enterprises that want to adopt a policy. Instead of figuring out how to tailor a policy for teams with different attributes they just have one blanket policy across the org because that's much simpler.

[@xybersurfer]

that's pretty stupid. it also sounds like they didn't have a say in how hybrid they want to work

[@lukeskywalker7258]

So what is the policy on the other members since they are spread out? They have other office located in those paces and they are also forced to go there 3 days week?

[@Muaahaa]

@@lukeskywalker7258Yes, from my understanding it is something like that.

[@jamal3298]

"There are a lot of cool things that happen in the office." Like what?? Bingo Mondays? Who gave you money to have such an awful opinion?

[@sum1337]

P-P-P-P-P-PIIIIIZA PARTY!!! xD

[@sunnydays405]

He's a corporate shill, its pretty obvious

[@CrispBaker]

Lmao Prime is so goddamn desperate to defend RTO that he's screaming ACTUALLY STATS DON'T WORK and banning people who disagree Cope, seethe, mald

[@runejensen3978]

Remember you have a bigger talent pool if 100% remote to pick from.

[@guguludugulu]

"Never trust statistics" Looks at the study "This is from 2017 so it's probably not relevant" - doesn't even bother to check what it refers to "I guess I would have to comb through these to get an understanding" - Yeah, that's kinda how studies work But yeah, you shouldn't trust statistics. You should trust his anecdotal experience I guess

[@guguludugulu]

Also banning a guy who told him to check the study because "he didn't check the sources". And he thinks he didn't based on what, exactly? A hunch?

[@megatrongodzilla]

Real Estate is an investment like all investments, it should come with an assumption you can lose everything. You made a bad bet, you lost, accept your blue hair and don't demand a RTO unless you have data to suggest to back up your assumption of improved productivity.

[@LegitBanananas]

Primegan almost all shopping centers in japan and Korea are really tall buildings :D

[@opensourcedev22]

There's a cottage industry that relies on office drones to be in the office so that they can suck on the teet of corpo-expenses. Let's be frank - most positions that can be done remotely, should be. Then optimize how to make it efficient.

[@dundundun-cc6wi]

❤️ hybrid. I told my manager if you want me to code I am going home but if you want me to take 2 hours lunch break, 6 tea breaks, plenty of gossiping around, look busy like everyone else sure I will come to office. My office is a distracting shithole and nothing gets done there. Thanks to my stars I work under this manager.

[@freeideas]

I don't understand. What exactly can you do in person at the office, that you can't do remotely?

[@user-lk2vo8fo2q]

give out middle manager handshakes

[@snowballeffect7812]

get away with sexual harassing your co-workers in a public setting.

[@M0J0-RL236]

muh collaboration

[@snowballeffect7812]

6:55 the blatant disregard to basic statistical analysis is hilarious here. I don't think there's any other online person I follow that has such horrible takes outside their own field of expertise lol. I get his anecdotal point about false positives and negatives, but there's a reason why confidence intervals exist. That said, asking what people want to do and then letting them do the thing they wanted to do definitely shows a discrepancy which is more a function of human psychology than the accuracy of statistical analysis. I wish he had clicked on the citation to see if the people were asked and not doing remote work or not. mnsmwo is the hero chatter we need.

[@edwardmurphy440]

When we went fully remote my team (backend services and devOps) instituted a 2 hour zoom meeting each day where we just join and work. If someone has a question they speak up. It is like being in the same room. We eventually reduced that to 3 days a week. We also focused on other non-work remote socializing, like building music playlists, online escape rooms, etc. We have a Junior team member straight out of University that is being very productive; I am her mentor in the company. She learned Rust and Terraform and became productive quickly. We do detailed code reviews with a lot of talk about architecture. She is given challenging work, not just simplistic drudge and she responds by learning fast. So it can be done.

[@lukeskywalker7258]

Are all the members that you communicate with in the group also back end focus so basically same skillsets and working on individual stuff? And we're you hired based on being in office and the company later decided to go fully remote? Is that typical of many companies? If the company hired an intern they would likely just join you guys and you would give them tasks remote?

[@thomasphilipmeadows4569]

my uncle said that (and I quote), "remote work is fine for tech because they're loners and don't need to work together". He said this to my (engineer) face, at CHRISTMAS.

[@xybersurfer]

so do you disagree?

[@kylefinter528]

Prime has a bad take. He doesn't understand all the time returned to commuters that we can spend on things we care about like family and friends and rest. I work for a company that pre-covid was growing too fast that the office space was too cramped and it was hard to get work done and focus since everyone was talking loudly and would just walk by and talk with you interrupting your flow. I am 100% more productive working remote only but I still live close enough to have a team lunch occasionally.

[@Bankoru]

I have aspergers and extremely introverted, if WFH didn't exist I wouldn't be able to work at all.

[@adambickford8720]

If in office is so great, why does it have to be mandated?

[@Dev-fo8zt]

Everything about remote work is better than in office work. Never convince me otherwise.

[@toddschavey6736]

Default remote w/ in-office when needed is the best. Forced hybrid just sucks

[@n4bb12]

Hybrid remote is the worst combination for both the remote and the on-site team members. If you want to enjoy remote work, join a full remote team.

[@BrianJurgess]

Ive been 100% remote for the past few years and I’ve found myself wanting to go into an office every so often. Engineering is inherently collaborative. While there are collaboration tools, you lose a lot of social queues and body language that you’d get in office. There have been times I wish I could go and whiteboard out a problem with a colleague. Sure, if the problem I’m solving is simple, I could care less. As soon as the problem becomes more complicated and wide reaching, I wish I had a coworker to whiteboard and soundboard ideas with.

[@ultimaq8730]

When I started my gig we were all remote, slowly though everyone else moved to be close to the office. I gotta say I'm terrified that I'm going to be booted since they have to justify flying me out when they have big meetings. I will say that I really enjoy being remote, it helps me maintain a good work-life balance. I get more work done since I dont have any coworkers coming in and distracting me granted having a child hurts that production but it feels a hell of a lot better, plus I get to work more since I can do it whenever. I hate working in an office, packing a lunch or picking up something, having to lug everything around, drive to-fro through traffic, bull shitting with coworkers over shit that is just not important, and most importantly a manager that breathes down your neck to make sure that you're always on task (ie no pomo).

[@ObsessiveClarity]

6:25 No a few hundred is more than enough if you use a good sampling technique. A sample of 500 can give a way more accurate estimate than a sample of 5 million if the 500 uses a better sampling technique. The real problem is when people use poor sampling techniques. Confidence intervals with a sample size of even just 50 can be accurate if the sampling is good

[@petarkolev6928]

Can you tell us what are these cool office things that happen that you can't replicate remotely?

[@snowballeffect7812]

No. One more of those and you get banned, too.

[@petarkolev6928]

@@snowballeffect7812 someone has burned out from debugging I guess

[@Krapvag]

what makes it harder for junior workers is they don't overhear conversations, or they don't have someone jump in and say "oh that thing, yeah"

[@stdub6715]

Remote worker since 2009. I don't mind going to office, but if you ask me, no I don't want to and I am glad I don't have to.

[@kevincodes674]

There's literally no point for going in office besides catching my next illness on the bus in. All meetings in office are video meeting, can be done from home. The open office floor plan is hugely distracting because a few people take calls at their desk and yell at their screen all day. I need noise canceling headphones just to work. It's not one dimensional, going to the office is pointless.

[@rukinohi]

Honestly, before COVID I did not mind office work. I was not married, no kids, so it was tons of fun networking. Now I'm married and with 2 kids. Would not come back for anything. I'll be working for the next 50 years, but the chance to see my kids take their first steps, see them grow up and to be around them at all times is well worth the minor distractions throughout the day. But I also understand many single colleagues I have, that are depressed out of their minds being forced (during COVID) to stay alone at home at all times... So I guess it's just a matter of preference. But its definitely nice to have the choice of either staying home or working from office, a choice we lacked before COVID.

[@MrC0MPUT3R]

I will forever seek out remote-first work. My preference is once a month in office. Ironically going into the office tanks my productivity because I'm interrupted a lot more and I have to spend a good amount of time commuting. However, the spontaneous conversations and getting to know what people on other teams are doing are the best part to me.

[@lukeskywalker7258]

But in this field is there a lot of opportunity for remote first work? I am hearing it's only possible for those with years of experience. Even if you do remote likely you would still be having those daily meetings and meetings throughout the day like on zoom correct?

[@MrC0MPUT3R]

@@lukeskywalker7258 I still get contacted by recruiters looking for remote workers, but yes I have about 10 years of experience. That might be affecting who is willing to hire me remote. We still have our daily meetings on Google Meet (we just moved from Zoom recently) but luckily I was able to get our daily standup moved to only twice a week on video since we all recognized that it was basically just a status update.

[@thijsyo]

Banning that guy was an L

[@kaerakh4267]

There's communication benefits to in office work that I think is invisible to the vast vast majority of developers/remote workers. That being said am I working a remote position and want to continue doing so right now? Sure, but there are significant communication downsides to remote work and people are just coping that there isn't a give and take.

[@xybersurfer]

i like to think that most people understand the differences, and choose the advantages they prefer

[@thenonsequitur]

I've worked fully in-office and fully remote and communication has always been much better through Slack than in person in an office.

[@kaerakh4267]

@@xybersurfer I very much agree.

[@stagfoo]

I think shallow work is fine in the office. I think deep work is harder in the office. I heard people people say "whiteboard meeting" but i think whiteboard meeting are actually better if you are remote with styluses and a shared board. another great thing about remote almost everything creates archives so you can check back on meetings and convos which the office doesnt have. I have been remote for many years now

[@coorbin]

I understand the value of in-office meetings but I still prefer to work from home almost always. I'm a fan of yeeting the team into the office when we need to solve a hard problem together. During "normal" course of business, we can do most stuff online.