This is a work that sounds so fresh and new every time I hear it (as does Nielsen's first Symphony, another underrated masterpiece). I actually had the pleasure of hearing Dvorak 5 in concert with the LA Phil under Lionel Bringuier around 9 years ago. I don't expect to be able to hear it again in concert in the near future (Post virus) since it rarely appears on a program, although I think Muti brings it out from time to time. The Neumann digital cycle rarely leaves my side - it's on the shelf next to me right now and I even take it on the road with me sometimes when I travel.
@jakobpetropoulos88503 жыл бұрын
Me too Ken, I always have the Neumann set in my car when I travel on the countryside, Dvorak understood nature as nobody else IMHO. Take care and stay safe.
@OuterGalaxyLounge3 жыл бұрын
I loved this. Absolutely first-rate work here, David. Myth-busting, scholarship, practical demonstration and just the right amount of personal anecdote and much-deserved digs on the establishment. Bravo, sir.
@RichardGreen4223 жыл бұрын
I hadn't listened to Dvorak 5 in years, but your analysis was so compelling, I decided to give it a try. I have now listened to it four times in the last 48 hours--most recently on the Berlin Philharmonic's Digital Concert Hall with Patrenko. Talk about great wind playing....
@jimyoung92623 жыл бұрын
I agree with Dave about Dvorak being one of the all time greats.
@jessebrennan7130 Жыл бұрын
I agree. Because of Dave, I have become a Dvorak fan.
@jackstewart20953 жыл бұрын
Wow I had thought nobody else cared about this symphony! Thanks for repudiating that and for all the great thematic analysis! I always thought the fifth was certainly as great as the last three. Also thanks for the enlightenment on the Dvorak/Brahms relationship.
@markantolik34872 күн бұрын
I don't always agree with your choice of recordings, especially re: period performances, but I always learn immensely from your analysis. "Formal" musical training is good, but there is no substitute for decades of analytical listening. Thank you...and keep on listening :)
@bolemirnoc6043 жыл бұрын
Interesting to know, how the world thinks of Dvořák. For me as a Czech citizen it is surprising, that he could be considered as a minor composer compared to Brahms, because we value him of course highly. But the 5th is even in his native land rarely performed. Thank you for your knowledgeable appreciation.
@stradivariouspaul12323 жыл бұрын
I for one consider him on a par with Brahms, and the cello concerto is my favourite piece of music of all time - all Czechs should be justly proud!
@tommynielsen71633 жыл бұрын
Hopefully, post lockdown the great orchestras will widen their repertoire. The Czech Phil paid a visit to my local concert hall a couple of years ago. Played wonderfully of course, under Netopil. But the repertoire was so predictable, that you felt like screaming. I mean traveling all that way to play Dvorak 9 and the cello concerto. Wonderful as this music is there should be a law against such lack of programming creativity. Almost like a missed opportunity.
@stradivariouspaul12323 жыл бұрын
@@tommynielsen7163 I take your point, certainly the 5th and 6th symphonies and symphonic poems are greatly unrepresented
@wcucomneuroscience258 Жыл бұрын
@@stradivariouspaul1232 Dvorak's cello concerto is possibly the most stirring and emotionally impactful concerto ever written. And I grew up on Beethoven's violin concerto as a kid and listened to his piano concertos in my late teens and early twenties! (Reflecting on 40-45 years of my listening to classical music)possibly
@wcucomneuroscience258 Жыл бұрын
Dvorak is major composer, for sure. his creative genius is equivalent to any of the big-name composers of the 19th century, e.g. Schubert, Schumann, Mendelssohn, etc. He was "discovered" by Brahms, but eventually really became his peer, there is no doubt in my mind about that.
@kavansl86023 жыл бұрын
Thank you, David! I have always liked the 5th. Especially the scherzo B theme. I used to listen to the Kertesz recording, over and over again, when I was young. And have always wondered why most of the big name conductors only do the last 3. Time to look up what Tovey has to say.
@johnwright77493 жыл бұрын
Thanks for doing this, one of the most underrated and underrepresented symphonies of all time! I have Rowicki on a Philips two-fer that contains his terrific performances of 4 and 6, also two of my favorite Dvorak works. I look forward to your discussion of those, as well.
@johnwright77493 жыл бұрын
@@allenwilliams1306 Agree!!
@hhk013 жыл бұрын
Very kooky- I was just listening to the Jansons yesterday during a walk in the snow, then I find this great vid! The 5th has always been a great favorite of mine, and often recommend it to others. I think your videos are excellent, informative, and fun!
@HassoBenSoba3 жыл бұрын
Long-time Chicago Tribune critic John von Rhein described Dvorak's 5th as containing "enough good tunes to stock a half-dozen Romantic symphonies", a statement I was happy to use as PR for the performance I did a few years back. My FAVORITE of Dvorak's symphonies, despite some Wagnerian-style drama in the finale, which was not what Dvorak did so uniquely well. Audience and Orchestra LOVED the work, which I fear might remain forever on the sidelines of late 19th-century masterworks. KERTESZ has always been my go-to guy, but the Neumann (Analog) that you use sounds SUPERB. Also, your comments (and those of others below) on Rowicki are convincing. Too bad there's so little room on the shelves.. LR
@salocindejuan96483 жыл бұрын
Fantastic lecture! I learned while enjoying so much. Thank you, David!
@kennethharrington70945 ай бұрын
Omg one of my ABSOLUTE favorite works!!! ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ I can never get enuff of this symphony, and every single time I listen to it, it just fills me with such joy
@bucal533 жыл бұрын
Thanks for highlighting this wonderful symphony. I had the pleasure of performing it under Richard Hickox in Spoleto, Italy and he clearly loved this work. Kudos!
@nikoszintziovas54533 жыл бұрын
Thank you David for this extraordinary analysis of Dvorak's 5th. I too think that Kubelik's splendid recording is maybe the best out there. I also find very interesting the way Brahms and Dvorak influenced one another musically. For example in "Herr, lehre doch mich" of Brahms' German Requiem - Is it only me who feels a connection there with Dvorak's cello concerto?
@AlexMadorsky3 жыл бұрын
Vacuuming while listening to Brahms 1 isn’t a bad idea. It’s a great symphony, of course, but I’ve heard it too often for my own good. I think I actually like Neumann the best here so I’m glad you were able to share clips with us. The 5th really does stand up to the rest of Dvorak’s output (or Brahms’s for that matter ) quite well and deserves to be heard in concert halls.
@robertodevereux43893 жыл бұрын
Thank you mr Hurwitz for this great talk about Dvorak 5, listened to it twice today, after years unused in my big Kubelik symphonic box!
@craigkowald30553 жыл бұрын
I saw the Seattle Symphony perform the 5th live a few years ago. It was a rare treat.
@olegroslak8523 жыл бұрын
Another great talk. Your enthusiasm is infectious. I do have to say how much more useful, and enjoyable, listening to one of your surveys is than listening to its rough analogue, "Building a Library" on BBC Radio 3. Not just a review, but a music appreciation seminar (but more fun than a seminar). Great stuff! Also, I nearly spit up my coffee at your "... and I have no reputation to preserve, as many of you will readily acknowledge." Would that every music critic/writer had your sense of humour! Also, there's a Sejna box?! I googled around, but couldn't find one. I take it is long unavailable.
@DavesClassicalGuide3 жыл бұрын
When I say something exists, no one can find it. When I say it doesn't exist, everyone finds it. Go figure...
@carlconnor51733 жыл бұрын
#5 almost, ALMOST challenges #8 as my favorite Dvorak Symphony. I just love it too, David! Your analysis was intensely absorbing. That confusion about the numbering is inexplicable.And that relationship with Brahms is very interesting too. I didn’t know the two knew each other that well. But I anticipated you talking about that circular thing (sorry, I don’t know the musical term) towards the end of the Scherzo. It never ceases to amaze me. It’s so purely delightful.
@jgonzo19952 жыл бұрын
Very excited to hear the Cleveland Orchestra perform this in a couple weeks!! Thanks for the insight!
@Wolfcrag853 жыл бұрын
As I type this comment, I'm listening to Rowicki's version. What an exhilarating work, bohemian to the core. Thank you, David, for reminding us how great Dvorak truly is. Were I a conductor, this symphony would be performed in my next concert.
@leedsleeds80912 жыл бұрын
I heard the 5th played by the Czech Phil in Prague some years ago. They were conducted by Herbert Blomstedt...... a dream team!
@DavesClassicalGuide2 жыл бұрын
I'll bet!
@ultradmann23673 жыл бұрын
I fell in LOVE with this symphony in particular because it all just so enjoyable to listen to since I'm a sucker bouncy scherzo like the one in this symphony. Really appreciate the help narrowing down great recordings of this work. Thought about doing a list of your favorite piece/recordings of all time?
@DavesClassicalGuide3 жыл бұрын
It would be too large!
@robertbond93583 жыл бұрын
Really gratifying to find somebody waxing lyrical about the first symphony I ever bought----Kertesz/ LSO, 1967--and have loved ever since. A Dvorak aficianado since hearing the New World, always valued his orchestral music for its ability to convey a sense of the natural world. Ergo, my then 6- year old daughter's comment on hearing the Fifth's opening bars; "Daddy, that sounds like somebody walking up a mountain."
@robertbond93583 жыл бұрын
PS Sorry about lines through the post. No idea what prompted them.
@HassoBenSoba3 жыл бұрын
@@robertbond9358 You can remove the lines.. click on the 3 little dots on the right-hand side of your comments, then click on EDIT. You can then remove the lines by ELIMINATING the DASH in between the words "bought" and "Kertesz". I've had problems with this, so now I use either ...... or a colon. Your daughter is very perceptive; brava! My comment to an audience when I conducted the 5th was "like stepping outside on a lovely, sunny Spring morning." But any nature-inspired description will do! LR
@elliotkane2862 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the analysis of parts of this symphony's structure and its relationship with Brahms. I love Dvořák--and fortunately, I still have lots of his work to listen to uncover. His fifth symphony is one that I had not heard until recently, and the more I listen to it, the more I like it! My only copy of it is an--to my knowledge--obscure recording by the Prague Philharmonic conducted by Bohumil Kulínský from 1991. I have yet to listen to any of the recordings you mention here, but I cannot imagine the Kulínský recording being any bit inferior to them. The music is well-played, the recording well-balanced; it just sounds natural, like it is the way the music was meant to sound. It is coupled with the exciting Othello overture, which was another happy discovery for me.
@DavesClassicalGuide2 жыл бұрын
OK, but test what you "cannot imagine" by doing some serious, comparative listening!
@elliotkane2862 жыл бұрын
@@DavesClassicalGuide That's the plan! We'll see if I'm being over-enthusiastic in my choice of words.
@andrewbarrow34663 жыл бұрын
Hoovering to Brahms' First Symphony. What a great idea!
@andrewbryant32863 жыл бұрын
This was a great explanation of a work which I may not have thought to listen to had I not watched this. I’m wondering if you have a video on ideal Dvorak cycles or complete symphony cycles planned for the future?
@DavesClassicalGuide3 жыл бұрын
Coming soon.
@davidgoulden59563 жыл бұрын
Thanks David for another engaging and thought-provoking chat. I agree with you. Every bar of this symphony is golden. And the second subject of the finale - what a wondrously suave melody. Does anyone know if Ormandy ever conducted the Mighty Philly Orchestra in this work? Best, D.
@estel53353 жыл бұрын
Time to do a IDEAL Dvorak Cycle! I beg of you, David =)
@paulbrower5 ай бұрын
I just heard a recording of a whimsical performance by Kertesz with the LSO.
@adamfrye2463 жыл бұрын
My experience with cyclic form is that when you hear a motif recur you think about how it has changed since the last time you heard it and that causes you to think ahead instead of thinking back even though you are hearing something that came before.
@william-michaelcostello77763 жыл бұрын
Great review. It is time to get Dvorak out of the shadow of Brahms. His vl.concerto is on a pare with Brahms and better orchestrated. When I was asked to do the 3rd I jumped at it, his Eroica. I never did 5 unfortunately. People make the mistake thinking Dvorak is simple Bohemian dance tune. How wrong they are.
@geraldmartin77033 жыл бұрын
I bought the Sejna 5 decades ago when I was in junior high school. I wanted 1 (Supraphon) after hearing it on the radio; but it wasn't in the record store Dvorak bin. So I bought the 5 because it was numerically the closest Dcorak symphony in the bin (no 2, 3, or 4) and I reasoned it would therefore sound more like 1 than 6, 7, 8, or 9. Idiot reasoning; but my first Dvorak symphonies were therefore 1, 5, and 9.
@brianrein3 жыл бұрын
Kept waiting for you to mention that the arpeggio theme rhythm (long-long-ta-da) returns, loudly, on a trumpet, in the Eighth Symphony! (I think the Eighth works in the same progressive-variation way with every theme in the piece deriving from some portion of the opening cello tune.)
@DavesClassicalGuide3 жыл бұрын
Yes, it does. I wrote about that in my Dvorak book.
@rsmickeymooproductions48773 жыл бұрын
I agree with list 90%. All are fine performances. You didn't mentioned Suitner, Otmar (conductor) Staatskapelle Berlin on Berlin Classics. I find the 5th Symphony the highlight of his cycle. Like what you said in your ClassicsToday "what a rousing finale" and I couldn't agree more.
@DavesClassicalGuide3 жыл бұрын
Yes, Suitner could have gone into the list but I liked "5 of 5."
@colinclarke73073 жыл бұрын
Great stuff Dave! 'Symphonism' Wow is that a word!?
@DavesClassicalGuide3 жыл бұрын
I didn't think so until I presented at this symposium. I guess it is now.
@colinclarke73073 жыл бұрын
@@DavesClassicalGuide haha - a symphonism symposium !!
@Alex-ze2xt3 жыл бұрын
Which reminded me... Sir Donald Tovey whom you have mentioned has written a delightful Symphony himself, which might give you an idea for a new series of obscure symphonic works well worth digging into
@giorgiopitzalis11662 жыл бұрын
Great Dave as always! I have all your references and I share your opinions (for personal taste I prefer Rowicki to Kubelik) ... what do you think of Kosler with Slovak? what a great orchestra (and great recording) Czech with Belohlavek !! Greetings from Sardinia!
@michelangelomulieri51343 жыл бұрын
Fully agree either about the importance of the fifth either about Neumann and that magnificent orchestra which is cech Phil!!
@Don-md6wn3 жыл бұрын
David, with regard to Supraphon allowing you to play samples from their recordings, before I came across your videos 5 or 6 months ago I had been buying classical music CDs for over 20 years but didn't have one recording by Supraphon and knew nothing about the label. Now I have about 70, mostly their boxes of 3 to 12 discs but also a bunch of individual discs. There is a treasure trove of great recordings on that label. Let them know when you talk to them that you are selling a lot of their recordings and tell them to keep those box sets in print.
@DavesClassicalGuide3 жыл бұрын
Thank you. I will.
@patrickhows14823 жыл бұрын
I am not suggesting any influence, but, but Dvorák's no 5 has a similar open air freshness of another fine no 5, by Schubert, both have wonderful lyrical writing for the woodwind and are full of wonderful melodies.
@vinylisland63862 жыл бұрын
I always thought the symphony that most bears the stamp of Brahms influence, Dvorak's sixth, was his dreariest and least individual.
@AlexMadorsky3 жыл бұрын
Also, I’m pretty sure most of what little I know about this work I got from reading your Dvorak Listener’s Guide...talk about the blind leading the blind (kidding, kidding).
@nb28163 жыл бұрын
Very interesting, had never really thought of the Brahms 3/Dvorak 5 connection, but it certainly is there. There's also a Brahms 3/Raff 3 connection (both in F as well) and here there is a definite correlation between the coda of both finales. The Raff 3 predates even Dvorak 5 by several years (1869-70). Finally, there is the Schumann/Brahms connection; not only does Brahms quote Schumann 3 at the beginning, but the fact that Brahms 3 is in F undoubtedly has something to with a transposed tonality sequence derived from the published order of Schumann's symphonies: B-flat, C, E-flat, d (Schumann) becomes c, D, F, e (Brahms). I totally agree with your preference regarding recordings of Dvorak 5. I hear a lot of negative criticism regarding Kubelik's cycle, and I don't get it. I think it's fabulous.
@ThreadBomb3 жыл бұрын
Would the Schumann symphony been numbered as "3" in Brahms's time?
@nb28163 жыл бұрын
@@ThreadBomb Yes, it was the last of the four to have been composed, of course, and the original version of what is now known as the fourth was written after the first, but the published sequence, with the revision of that work as No. 4, was firmly established during Schumann's lifetime (he died in 1856). The fact that Brahms' four symphonies present a transposed sequence (up a whole step) of the tonal centers of Schumann's four symphonies is clearly a tribute to Brahms' friend and former mentor.
@DavesClassicalGuide3 жыл бұрын
Nonsense.
@nb28163 жыл бұрын
@@DavesClassicalGuide So you think the key sequence correspondence is an accident? I sincerely doubt it, but we all have a right to our opinion.
@DavesClassicalGuide3 жыл бұрын
@@nb2816 You have no proof to the contrary, and there is no independent evidence of such a correspondence (especially when it's not even direct, but transposed, which makes it even more far-fetched). Any suggestion to the contrary is simply a typical example of the "post hoc ergo propter hoc" logical fallacy.
@secondbanana23 жыл бұрын
Unfortunately the Kubelik and Kertesz sets both have the 5th split between two discs, and my playback equipment (and listening routine) is apparently from the early 1990s. Happily I have single CDs Jarvi(Chandos) and Kertesz(London). Still I want that Kubelik set. Any thoughts on the big Kubelik/DG box?
@DavesClassicalGuide3 жыл бұрын
The big Kubelik box is great, but just get the Fifth as a download and you're in business. Anyway, I don't think switching discs is that much of a big deal.
@sergiocasellato49663 жыл бұрын
I have both Kertesz and Kubelik cycle👍👍
@paulwgibson3 жыл бұрын
Any Dvorak book recommendations (in addition to your own)? Most of what I've found seem to focus on his time in America... would be more interested in a full biography.
@DavesClassicalGuide3 жыл бұрын
We badly need one.
@ThreadBomb3 жыл бұрын
@@DavesClassicalGuide I must assume there is a Czech one already, in which case it's a question of finding and translating it.
@nefertithy2 жыл бұрын
which is the best Dvorak symphony in your opinion?
@DavesClassicalGuide2 жыл бұрын
I don't believe in such things.
@nefertithy2 жыл бұрын
@@DavesClassicalGuide I understand, so which is your favourite and why?
@DavesClassicalGuide2 жыл бұрын
@@nefertithy I don't believe in such things.
@burhanguner3023 жыл бұрын
Awesome work Dave - love your great videos. Yes! Dvorak is not Brahms! The superb qualities of the fifth and sixth symphonies have been under-appreciated for far too long. And I agree - one should never solely rely on programme notes or musicologists to tell you what sounds good or not - use your ears!!
@marknewkirk43223 жыл бұрын
I love the first three movements of Dvorak's 5th. I like the finale slightly less - it stomps around and seems a bit forced to me. But the first three movements are absolutely wonderful, mature Dvorak. Dvorak was influenced over the years by Wagner, Brahms, and Tchaikovsky. But so what - he has a style all his own that is absolutely and uniquely identifiable at least from 1870 onwards.
@DavesClassicalGuide3 жыл бұрын
Wagner, yes. Tchaikovsky, no, Not a bit.
@marknewkirk43223 жыл бұрын
@@DavesClassicalGuide Certainly, there is little in Dvorak that sounds like Tchaikovsky. But Dvorak deeply admired Tchaikovsky and knew his music inside-out. I think it's in opera that the influence can be found most clearly - the beginning of Rusalka, for example, with its short prelude and introductory scene with the three wood sprites is very reminiscent of the beginning of Eugene Onegin (an opera that Dvorak knew very well and liked) with its short, atmosphere-setting introduction and opening ensemble number with female voices. And there are commentators who have noted structural and motivic similarities between Dvorak's Eighth and Tchaikovsky's Fifth. The Eighth was actually intended for Russia before it ended up being premiered in England. I absolutely do not consider Dvorak to be a derivative or second rate composer by saying he was influenced by certain things. Beethoven was influenced by Cherubini, for crying out loud. And as you rightly say, however much or little Brahms may have directly influenced Dvorak, above all they were kindred spirits who shared artistic values. Dvorak and Tchaikovsky were also kindred spirits when it came to music for the stage and symphonic poems.
@kevinspruit53593 жыл бұрын
@@marknewkirk4322 You've got it mixed up: it's the New World Symphony that's said to be inspired by the Tchaikovsky 5th.
@DavesClassicalGuide3 жыл бұрын
@@marknewkirk4322 Nice try, but simply not true. In fact, Dvorak was not an uncritical admirer of Tchaikovsky. He hated the Fourth Symphony especially, and while admired other pieces you can like something without copying it. The game of "find the influence" can easily go too far, as I believe you do here.
@HassoBenSoba3 жыл бұрын
I'll stay out of the Dvorak/Tchaikovsky thing, but Mark N. correctly identifies the problem with the Dvorak 5th's finale; don't get me wrong, it's my FAVORITE of Dvorak's symphonies..but his long-recognized Wagnerism impedes the finale somewhat..all that turbulence and "stomping"..which was NOT what Dvorak did best; you can almost feel him "working his way out of it" as the movement proceeds. When I performed the 5th (in 2016), I demonstrated Dvorak's debt to Wagner by playing a brief excerpt...a lugubrious chorale for low clarinets, trombones, etc....and rhetorically asked the crowd "which Wagner opera do you suppose THAT's from..?" only to reveal that it was the opening bars of the slow movement of Dvorak's OWN 4TH Symphony. Then we played the opening bars of the FIFTH...like stepping outside on a lovely, sunny morning in Spring. You'll probably all choke, but it's also Bruckner that echoes through the Finale..in the exquisite, shifting harmonies of the Secondary Theme; it's the same sort of "promenade/procession" style tune that we see as secondary subject in the Finales of Bruckner's 3rd and 7th. But, considering that Dvorak's 5th PREDATES Both Bruckner 3 and 7, it's possible that Dvorak's influence in and around Vienna might have been more important than anyone would have thought. Who knows? But I'm NOT fishing around here playing "find the influence"..too many more important things to do with one's time. But I was Immediately struck by the Dvorak 5/Bruckner 7 similarity the first time I heard them. LR
@davidaiken10613 жыл бұрын
Wonderful analysis of a wonderful symphony. It was the Kubelik recording that first revealed its charms to me, though I also know and like the Rowicki and Jansons. I don't think the Kubelik cycle gets enough credit. Critics always seem to prefer Kertesz. Kertesz is OK, but Kubelik plays the symphonies con amore, whereas Kertesz favors energy over lyricism. Or so it seems to me, Rowicki is bold and energetic, too (except in the Seventh, as you pointed out), but somehow captures the charm of these works, partcularly the earlier ones, better than Kertesz.
@giacomomazzola41233 жыл бұрын
I agree. I own Kubelik (super), Kertesz (great), Rowicki (very very good) and Suitner (very good). But I have also Libor Pesek. Can Pesek be considered one of the worst recording?
@DavesClassicalGuide3 жыл бұрын
No, not by a mile.
@artistinbeziers79163 жыл бұрын
I really like Pesek's recording of the 6th. Surely one of the reference recordings of that particular work.
@giacomomazzola41233 жыл бұрын
@@artistinbeziers7916 I don't have the Pesek's set, only the 5th, but I'll consider your indication.
@artistinbeziers79163 жыл бұрын
@@giacomomazzola4123 Thanks, but it is only my opinion, as a music-lover. I'm not involved in the music profession. However, I would be interested to exchange opinions, etc...
@UlfilasNZ3 жыл бұрын
Pesek (delightful)
@andrewbarrow34663 жыл бұрын
And wasn't Dvorak's 7th - my favourite - inspired by Brahms' 3rd?
@DavesClassicalGuide3 жыл бұрын
Existentially, yes, musically, not so much.
@stradivariouspaul12323 жыл бұрын
Yes this is an unjustly neglected work, I've always counted it as Dvorak's first great symphony, wonderful opening, though I've always thought the last movement too long in proportion with the rest - not that I'd want to be the one to decide what to leave out!
@DavesClassicalGuide3 жыл бұрын
I love the finale, and I hope that the analysis gives at least some sense of how it makes logical sense within the context of the whole.
@stradivariouspaul12323 жыл бұрын
@@DavesClassicalGuide yes David, I must say your analysis is very interesting, particularly the links to Brahms 3 - I've often thought they are both in a similar pastoral style but you point out technical similarites too which I hadn't noticed before