Repertoire: The BEST Handel Fireworks and Water Musics

[@petertimoney3436]

I'm so pleased to see Alexander Gibson getting a nod. I remember him bringing the Scottish National Orchestra (as it was then before disgraceful politics lead to 2 name changes in a year) to our school and playing a concert for us schoolkids. I also saw him conduct Tosca with Scottish Opera which I still haven't heard bettered in subsequent revivals. It was only my second ever opera experience. He died soon afterwards alas and I didn't know at the time that he was a founder of the opera company. Its nice to know outside Scotland he hasn't been forgotten. The Scottish chamber orchestra is a separate orchestra. It is based in Edinburgh. The RSNO, BBC SSO, and the opera and ballet orchestras are all based in Glasgow. Thanks for another informative video.

[@jockmoron]

He was the very first conductor I ever regularly hears in classical music concerts when I was a medical student in Glasgow in the 60s.

[@petertimoney3436]

@@jockmoron The thing which most impressed us at our school was that he came from around Wishaw, a very industrial working class area with a fair amount of poverty. Coming from North Lanarkshire myself in my childhood it was inspirational that classical music and the arts wasn't just for the big-wigs. He and his orchestra seemed less like aliens because we were told this. I already knew classical music on record but almost no one else in my school did. We were not a cultural hub while Ravenscraig still had steel to produce.

[@1984robert]

I am listening to the old Beinum/Concertgebouw recording about Water Music right now on youtube. What a thrilling experience! Full orchestra, glorious brass parts! I've never heard such perfection and full brass sound from period instrument groups. I NEED this recording!

[@daviddavenport9350]

I grew up with the Beinum version....and really loved the sonority....of course the tempi were all wrong.....Beinum was not a baroque scholar of course....but a beautiful performance none the less....

[@pietstamitz1]

@@daviddavenport9350 Beinum was a full-blooded musician, as were his orchestra's members. His water-music was my first one too, and it will remain my personal reference recording.. it has something timeless..

[@philippborghesi1060]

The reason why I love watching your content is your sheer passion and love you put in. I listen mainly to the late romantic and „heavier“ repertoire and due to your work, you get me to listen to so much more stuff. Since I am watching your videos and reading your reviews, I trust my self to step in new waters and my discography has triplet! And I enjoy every new discovery immensely.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Wow, thank you!

[@AlexMadorsky]

Dave, thanks for conducting this useful discourse on two incredible works. I particularly appreciate you walking us through period and mixer instrument performances as well as original or adapted instrumentation including strings. I’m not as familiar with different recordings as I ought to be and I can’t wait to use this video as a guide.

[@misterflamingo]

For watermusic, I'd leave a star for Yehudi Menuhin's version that I always found entrancingly beautiful

[@markmiller3713]

Thanks, David for this review. Handel is such a delight. I have the Leppard set. He is one of musical heroes - such a musical genius. May he rest in peace. The Hyperion set is beautiful.

[@elagabalus-imperator]

Love both the Leppard / Hogwood combos ... Savall? Another iteration to try. How I miss rummaging through the bins of used classical compact discs at the local record store; the fun was in finding "gems" like all the ones referenced.

[@brucejensen2693]

What a marvelous discussion - thanks, David!

[@davidrowe3356]

First of all, in spite of your own personal concerns regarding pronunciation, I want to thank you for saving me from my own certain, mispronunciation hell ... I've been saying Lep-PARD for decades at this point. I didn't get the memo that it was changed. Thanks, David. And for the recommendations, as well. To think I've been living happily with Simon Preston's Decca recording with the Concertgebouw all these years... Will check these out!

[@petertaplin6824]

Thanks David - entertaining as always! Mackerras just sounds so right in this stuff doesn't he? His published score of the Fireworks Suite is also great. I'd like to recommend another Water Music recording - Les Violons du Roy/Labadie on ATMA. Stylish, elegant authentic and energetic.

[@jeffreycalman5507]

I'm amused that you state - correctly! - that there hasn't been a recording with the band on a barge. I do remember, however, a recording (on period instruments, I think) which omitted the harpsichord continuo on the grounds that there wouldn't have been room for a harpsichord on a boat. There's also a recording in which a tambourin suddenly shows up, fun but a bit perhaps like Harnoncourt's "raspberries."

[@davidaiken1061]

Thanks so much for reviewing these two evergreen Handel scores. My first exposure to the "Water Music" was via the old Thurston Dart recording (mono, on Decca/London). As I recall Dart mixed up the movements from the three "suites" so as to promote maximal variety. Another fine recording from the early LP era which has been reissued more than once on CD is the van Beinum. He gives the work complete in the original scoring, but, like Dart mixes up the movements from the three suites. He has the great benefit of the Royal Concertgebouw, and they like angels, and with fairly idiomatic Baroque style (at least as it was understood back then). One of your commentators mentioned the Scherchen recording, originally on Westminster, with some affection. I would place it, with Harnoncourt, in the "eccentric but fascinating" category. As usual with Scherchen, his players sound like they are sight reading. Then, finally, my personal favorite "Water Music" is one that few critics seem to be aware of, and that is Karl Münchinger's with his Stuttgart ensemble. As I recall it was one of that estimable conductor's last recordings. He evokes an unfashionably smooth, even lush sound from his chamber orchestra, and he seems to be deliberately flying in the face of "period instrument" proclivities. Gorgeous playing, though. For the Fireworks Music, I agree that Leppard (and thanks for correcting the pronunciation) is appropriately pompous, and elegant, too. One CD set I treasure is the Phillips box from about 20 years ago containing all of that conductor's Handel recordings with the ECO, including the two sets of Concerti Grossi. Can we perhaps hope for a reissue? I appreciate your commentary more than I can say; it has provided much-needed enjoyment during a stressful time.

[@stephenkoons7411]

Thanks David. My choices rarely line up so well with yours. I agree about the Robert King/King's Consort Fireworks Music, and McGegan/Philharmonia Baroque is a hometown favorite from San Francisco. It used to be available on a bargain release from Harmonia Mundi. I haven't heard Harnoncourt, but it's hard to imagine a wilder version than Niquet/Le Concert Spirituel on Glossa- loud and wild. Finally, I have an old LP with Boulez(!) conducting the Hague Philharmonic that I haven't heard in years. But I remember it fondly as a pleasant modern instrument version.

[@guillermoraulzemba615]

Love the Niquet/Le Concert Spirituel (Glossa) recordings!

[@stevenbarton989]

I've always been partial to the Water Music set by Gerard Schwarz & the Los Angeles Chamber Orchestra, but I'll admit you've sold me on the Gibson. (Still, check out the brass ornamentation on Schwarz's Alla Hornpipe.)

[@markfarrington5183]

My all-time favorite WATER MUSIC remains the utterly exquisite van Beinum/Concertgebouwoerkest.

[@jensguldalrasmussen6446]

I love Robert King and the King's Consort in The Musick for the Royal Fireworks - but I must admit, that I more often than not return to an admitted, guilty pleasure in this work (with Water Music): Pierre Boulez conducting the (somewhat slimmed down) New York Philharmonic. I think most people would be surprised as to how good an interpretation it is, coming from this source. Well worth sticking ones neck out for in these Boulez-bashing pages! 😉 Of course It's not PI PC. But what a wonderful full sound - mirroring the grandeur and splendeur, that I'm quite convinced was part of the (regal) selfconcept of the baroque era. Some tempos might veer on the slightly slower side, compared to what we are used to today, but everything has a nice, rhytmic spring; and mr. Boulez had even for the occassion written out, added graces and ornaments!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Who around here bashes Boulez?

[@jensguldalrasmussen6446]

Yes, I wonder whom, that might be? Maybe someone, who is now being treated to a dose of his own medicine as a just reward for a 0:26 atrocity?! 😁😁😆😆

[@barrygray8903]

The outlandish Mackerras performance of the Fireworks music on Testament is great fun and very enjoyable. For both the Fireworks music and Water Music I like Pinnock (on separate discs)and the Orpheus Chamber Orchestra (coupled together). Another go-to favorite is the spectacular recording of the Fireworks music by Fennell and the Cleveland Symphonic Winds on Telarc. I've got the Savall recording (both works) on my radar as a must-listen. What are your views on the Fennell and Orpheus recordings (and Pinnock's Water Music)? BTW with the holidays approaching I think a survey of recommendable recordings of Handel's Messiah is in order. Thanks agin for another educational and enjoyable session.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Orpheus and Pinnock are excellent. Fennell, as I said elsewhere, is first-rate of its type, but it's an arrangement so I didn't include it because I was focusing on versions by Handel (more or less).

[@jfddoc]

I grew up with the Marriner on Argo (now on Decca/London) since it squeezed both works on a single LP. The Savall is excellent too. I have seen his viola centered sound described as "copper" in contrast the the more "silver" sound of violin centered ensembles. Interestingly, he released a recording of Messiah last year that no one seems to have noticed or even reviewed.

[@PhillipYewTree]

Please to hear a recommendation for the Scottish Chamber Orchestra. They are an excellent orchestra, with a creditable recording list. Viewers should check out their discography, and visitors to Edinburgh or Glasgow should attuned their wonderful performances.

[@patdaley9098]

You probably won't believe my favorite for both: Karl Munchinger and the Stuttgarter Kammerorchester on Decca 417 743-2. It's nice and relaxed, very pleasant and enjoyable. I also have the Water Music on LP with Leppard, which is nice.

[@bartolo498]

My favorite on modern instruments is Leppard, especially for the appropriately pompous Fireworks, in the water music I find the trumpets a bit shrill at times. Also agree with Savall as a great choice on period instruments. I love the Harnoncourt 4 seasons (and also Handel's organ concerti and opus 6) but not the farts and raspberries in the Water music. My favorites with uncommon couplings are Zefiro with Telemann's Water Music and Tafelmusik with the Pastor fido suite (and also their Fireworks although I have this one more for the concerti a due cori).

[@loganfruchtman953]

I know some recordings of water music have timpani and some don’t and the Neville Mariner recording is also a classic one

[@robinicus1133]

I tune into Hurwitz to make sure I'm on the right track, that is, I've acquired music by conductors and orchestras that he approves of. Naturally, we all have to trust our own hearing in the end, but I admit there is a bit of redemption that, for instance, he chose Trevor Pinnock and the English Concert's Fireworks which I already have.

[@mancal5829]

Did he? I missed it.

[@Wolfcrag85]

Curiously, I almost always try to get them together, nevertheless, my collection boasts the likes of Mallon, Mackerras with Prague CO (EMI) and Marriner (Hanssler), if I'm not mistaken. Others will follow, after your enthusiastic video.

[@episodesglow]

David you bring up a good point about no one recording the Water Music on a boat, I've rented one for next weekend, it can't be much harder than driving a car right? Forecast has it at 30 F so that should give the musicians some impetus to get it going at HIP tempi.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Please share the tape with all of us.

[@JamesDavidWalley]

Sorry, but I reject your approach unless you use an authentic 18th century microphone!

[@americanmultigenic]

I used to work for a lady, here in the US, whose surname was Thames . . . . and, yes, she used the Connecticut pronunciation. But I did find this on Quora: "The Thames is first mentioned in English around 893 in King Alfred the Great's Orosius. At the time it was called the Temese, a form believed to come from an earlier, unrecorded English "Tamisa." So perhaps it always was 'TEMZ' and the 'h' was somehow just added as window-dressing along the way.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Possibly, but my theory is more fun.

[@robkeeleycomposer]

@@DavesClassicalGuide as so often, our Italian friends have it best: TAMIGI :-)

[@jockmoron]

The theory is that later "classical" scholars put the "h" in, as suggesting an original Latin from Greek name. Such as the name Anthony, is originally Latin Antonius. There was a lot of respelling of English words over the years reflecting classical scholarship, which was sometimes just wrong. We have suffered peculiar spelling ever since.

[@goonbelly5841]

Fun trivia fact. Pierre Boulez recorded the Water Music twice, first on Nonesuch with the Hague Philharmonic Orchestra and then on Columbia with the NY Philharmonic. Was Pierre a closet Handel fan?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

No, but he was definitely a closet.

[@hwelf11]

I am shocked, shocked to learn that all this time I have been mispronouncing the name of the late great Maestro Leopard. Thank you for removing the Spots from our eyes.

[@TobyS77]

Thank you for your recommendation of the SCO/Gibson version of the Water Music. It hadn't previously come to my attention. The performance, abetted by Chandos' bright, spacious recording, is wonderfully lively and vivid and exudes a glowing sense of important occasion, just what the work calls for. It deserves to be the top of the pile.

[@gaylelinney180]

I totally agree with you about the original wind band scoring of the Music for the Royal Fireworks - it is an absolute blast and once you have heard it the version with strings sounds somehow wrong. But I've yet to hear a completely satisfying HIP recording. The King's Consort makes a great sound but I don't like the way King plays with the dynamics - little swells etc. Pinnock is also sometimes guilty of this, but otherwise he is probably closest to my ideal. You didn't mention that there are two Pinnock/English Concert recordings, one from 1996 (the one you showed) and an earlier one from 1984 which I think is far better. For some reason, in the 1996 recording he doesn't double-dot the Ouverture but does in the 1984 one, as does just about everybody else. By the way, for something weirdly Harnoncourt-like, have you heard Hervé Niquet and Le Concert Spirituel on Glossa? It's certainly lively - he takes the opening of the Ouverture at about double the usual tempo! As for the Water Music, here I also like Pinnock. It's just as well you excluded arrangements, otherwise someone would have to bring up Wendy (Walter) Carlos and The Well-Tempered Synthesizer...

[@gyulahunyor8267]

Superb "howevers" again, I fully agree with the Savall, King and Gibson versions respectively. However there are some others which I'd add as at least as good as those. For the Water+Fireworks Music coupling the Orpheus Chamber Orchestra on DG. Regarding Mackerras Fireworks, the one from the 50s is a novelty for sure but to my ears He made an even better big band version for the EMI in the 70s by the London Symphony Orchestra. Funny that I heard the very same drunken musicians story about the famed "Four Seasons" by Loveday/Marriner/ASMF on Argo. For more mobile Fireworks with more agility on period instruments I like very much the Gardiner/English Baroque Orchestra version coupled with a super Concerti a due cori on Philips. And for a live period Water Music you really can't find better than the absolutely magnificent Laurence Cummings conducted version by the Festspielorchester Göttingen on Accent.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I agree with most of these. Thanks for the supplement.

[@vinylarchaeologist]

Dare I mention August Wenzinger's old 1962 Fireworks recording on Archiv. It's the wind band version and they sound like they are both awfully drunk AND exceptionally out of tune with each other. It's a trainwreck of a performance and that is why I have so much affection for it :))) Don't think that one will top anyone's list, heheh.

[@JamesDavidWalley]

That’s all well and good, but when are you going to cover P.D.Q. Bach's _Royal Firewater Music_ ? Sadly, I don’t believe Mackerras and his ProArte Orchestra ever recorded that one.

[@jeffreylevy9130]

I have heard them all, and so many performances are fine. I guess I am a contrarian. However, the first time I heard the pieces were on turnabout lps with Dieter Kober,,,,eventually on vox cd. Small forces, almost "chamber like". Quite unique until HIP came along. Then, of course Herman Scherchen on westminster.....always great, bringing a grandeur and vigor to all his baroque recordings. Always liked Menuhin as a Handel conductor....And Savall is just marvellous. Could not take the cd off the player. Oh, Mcgegan and Pinnock and Mackerras are wonderful Handelians. Never cared for Leppard or Harnoncourt for handel-- too light, but Gardiner is quite good on all Handel and he did a water music. The gardiner is odd, on period instruments, but sounds "too big" and "too festive" for a water music. I love it anyway. I seem to remember having on LP Jean Paillard...... Just thought I would remind some that TELEMANN wrote "Hamburg water music"...of course he did. Telemann seems to be making a come back with new recordings on CPO and Brilliant. The Telemann society did many wonderful recordings of baroque music. ..........maybe some day Mr. Hurwiz might find time to add some talks on Telemann in addition to Tafelmusic or paris quartets. He wrote atleast as much music as Haydn, and much more than Bach or Handel or Vivaldi.

[@daviddavenport9350]

I had also the Harnancort Water Musick...and whacky is the only way to describe it.....I never listen to it anymore.

[@edwardcasper5231]

These pieces almost had to be "band" (banned? - LOL) music. They were written to be performed outdoors, and strings just don't have the carrying power as winds and brass. It's not too different from Berlioz's Symphonie Funebre et Triomphale in that respect.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Er, I think I said that.

[@edwardcasper5231]

@@DavesClassicalGuide - I was simply making the tie in with the Berlioz - awkwardly.

[@thescientificmusician3531]

I've always enjoyed Mallon's recording on Naxos. It's best to avoid Stokowski since it's extraordinarily perverse. He makes the music boring and there's no energy like the musicians are sleeping, not really what you want. I also like the conductorless Orpheus Chamber Orchestra's version if you'd like a smaller ensemble. I agree Mackerras was indeed a good Handel conductor. His Messiah is superb.