Repertoire: The BEST Mahler Sixth Symphony

[@jppitman1]

You know what i enjoy the most about "classical" people? Their passion! You have that passion and seek to share that sense of life with us. Classical music lovers are in touch with the internal depths of the universe in contrast to many, if not most, others who only access its superficialities. Gustav Mahler was the high priest of depth.

[@Cesar_SM]

I certainly agree with you. Classical music elevates souls and inspire minds as no other genre can do.

[@davisbone]

in a rehearsal of the Vienna Philharmonic in Tel-Aviv, Bernstein didn't like how they played the opening bars of the piece so he stopped and shouted:" no!! it's sounds too nice!! it should sound like.... the Wehrmacht entering the gates of Vienna!". The players couldn't believe what this old Jewish man was asking them but when they played it again it was really frightening

[@Listenerandlearner870]

Spot on.

[@jakenowell5211]

@@Listenerandlearner870 is there a video of this? I would love to see it

[@williamwhittle216]

Excellent! After a lifetime of listening, I’m 83, I’m still learning. I have several recordings of this work, including Eschenbach and Bernstein (Sony).

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Thanks for listening. We never do stop learning, do we?

[@andrewmiller7467]

When I was a young man (in my 20s), I bought a number of Mahler symphonies, but found that, apart from the 1st and the 4th, I could not get my head around what was actually happening, and so for all the pleasure I had from listening to the music, I would eventually get lost, and eventually I turned to shorter more approachable pieces that I could more easily fathom. After thirty years, Mozart and Beethoven had become the only classical composer's whose music I listened to; however, last month, I was cleaning house, and I found my old Mahler CDs, because I had loaned a CD player from work, I began to listen to them again. It was a revelation. Finally, I felt as though I had encountered a music that could reflect my thoughts and experiences. Still, I realised that I needed help to fathom what was happening in this music. What made the Mahler's 6th different from his 7th, 8th and 9th. Finding your website has become part of my recent revelation. Thank you. Your talk about the 6th Symphony has not only given me great insights into the music, it has also augmented by teaching--I am a high school teacher, who teaches classical texts such as Antigone, so your discussion of the classical and the tragic employed a vocabulary I know well. I look forward to sitting down and going through all your talks.

[@gavinaustin4474]

Really enjoying these videos, David. Please keep 'em coming.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Thank you. That's the plan!

[@cufflink44]

Dave, you're a treasure. Thanks so much for this discussion and your recommendations. i'm about to get myself to Disney Hall this evening to hear the Sixth with the LA Phil and Dudamel. I can't wait.

[@stuartnorman8713]

50 years ago I loved turning rockers into classical music lovers, especially playing the final movement of the 6th, and watching them nearly jump out of their chairs when that final, unexpected hammer blow sounded. Yes, I have a delightful, sadistic streak. Then there was a performance at the Eastern Music Festival in Greensboro, NC, in which they used a large, hollow wood podium held up by a few guys and slammed down on the floor of the stage to create a magnificent hammer blow!

[@dmntuba]

There are several Mahler recordings, conductors, orchestras that I love & enjoy, but Bernstein is and will always be my go to man. His recordings touch my soul and open my mind...Love you Lenny 👍

[@SupportTheArts-yo8ox]

Absolutely! I can't think of Mahler without thinking about Bernstein and vise versa. Musical marriage.

[@markdecker7489]

I literally clapped when you held up the Bernstein NYP recording. It was my first and will always be my favorite. The complaints I've heard about his interpretation have always baffled me, as I've never felt a conductor so perfectly "got" what Mahler had written. And his fiery tempi in his younger years is much preferable to his plodding tendencies in his late recordings.

[@Paul-gl6wq]

Totally agree it is best to have multiple recordings. My two favourites couldn't be more different. I love the punchy immediacy of the slow and dark Barbirolli / Philharmonia - engineered like you are standing right next to the conductor. But just as moving is the Tennstedt / LPO Albert Hall (live recording) with its distant acoustics and faster tempos, but utter beauty particularly in the adagio.

[@nerowolfe5175]

This is the Way.

[@saltyfellow]

Your channel is gorgeous! You're so "no BS" and so to the point. Really interesting and reach!! thanks!!!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I appreciate that! Thank you.

[@amyzoltick5998]

Mr. Hurwitz... I find your talks most illuminating. I first heart Mahler over 50 years at Carnegie Hall. It was a most unusual concert. Abbado conducting the Cleveland Orch...The First half of the program was a Mozart piano concerto with R. Serkin. The second half was Mahler's Sixth. It was a magnificent performance. I was so moved by the piece. I have watched the Mahler performances with Abbado with the Lucerne Orchestra...they are extraordinary. The Mahler sixth is very well done. The Abbado's live recordings with Lucerne Orch..I think some of the best performances I have watched and heard.... It is pleasure listening to your talks...I have just become a fan.....Jerel Zoltick

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Thank you for your kind words. I hope it's not too disappointing to you if I let you know that I find Abbado's Lucerne performances to be mediocre at best. The orchestra is second rate, and Abbado did not improve as he got older--quite the opposite. He became a fussy micro-manager who focused on tiny details at the expense of the whole. I thought his late career was rather sad, all the more so because he was praised to the skies when the recorded evidence shows that much of the acclaim was undeserved. His first recording of the Sixth in Chicago was much better than the Lucerne remake.

[@kushaldasgupta]

Absolutely enlightening. Really loved watching your videos. Can't Thank you enough Mr. Hurwitz!

[@nickcrown7566]

oh the 6th...what a work....heard Tennsdedt live at the RFH....sitting front row of the choir, still have goosebumps...the audience was silent at the end...exhausted....Thanks for your wonderful reviews Dave.

[@powerliftingcentaur]

Thank you for the education you are giving me. The first movement of the 6th is my favorite Mahler, and one of my two favorite pieces of music.

[@judsonmusick3177]

Wonderful talk on the Mahler 6th, Dave!

[@shawnhampton8503]

This DG Vienna Phil Mahler 6th with Lennie is just crushing. The recording is one of DG's best. The hugeness of the orchestra comes through - it is the biggest sound stage on my system of any of my recordings. Fabulous. Mahler's music seems to just capture the dark and horrible self destruction of the old Europe.

[@colinwrubleski7627]

An anecdote about Mahler first encountering Niagara Falls----> "At last, a real fortissimo!"

[@Anthonyprinciotti]

I'll read your article on the 6th with interest. A couple of quick reactions. I do think the documentary evidence for Mahler's last-stated intention being that the Andante should come before the Scherzo is stronger than you've indicated here. Nonetheless, when I've conducted the piece I've placed the Scherzo before the Andante, partly because of some of the reasons you've stated here, but mostly because no matter what post hoc anxieties Mahler might have had about the movement order, he'd written the piece using a harmonic outline that makes following the 1st movement with the Andante nonsensical. With Scherzo-Andante, the movement tonics are A minor to A major - A minor - E-flat major - a minor, BUT with an A-flat major opening that then quickly progresses to A minor. This harmonic outline has coherence. Even the tritone shift between A minor and E-flat major makes sense because it creates the effect of the Andante being an idyll existing in some other place. The dislocation is intentional. With Andante-Scherzo, the movement tonics are: A minor to A major - E-flat major - a minor - a minor AFTER that A-flat major opening. It's incoherent. It's one thing to go from A minor (no sharps/flats) to E-flat major (3 flats), as with Scherzo-Andante. But if the Andante follows the first movement, we're jolted from A major (3 sharps) to E-flat major (3 flats), a truly arbitrary shift of the sort that would be uncharacteristic of Mahler. All of which is to say that by the time Mahler started fussing about the movement order, the horse was out of the barn. There's much to say about the hammer blows, and specifically, the inclusion of a third. For now, I'll point out that the use of trombones in funerary music was a tradition in Germany and Austria that stretched back to at least the 1600s, and thus the writing that comes after the spot where a 3rd hammer blow is placed makes rhetorical sense. It's an epilogue.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Thanks for the interesting comments. I'm not sure what "documentary evidence" you refer to regarding the movement order. All we have is what Mahler did, and what he was doing in the few performances he conducted was "tinkering," plain and simple. It's silly to speak of firm intentions. We have no idea what they were. As for the 3rd hammer blow, as I said, I really don't think it matters. Everyone knows about trombones at German funerals. You don't need a sledge hammer as an excuse to use them, but if you do, well and good. At least play the passage with the correct orchestration and dynamics surrounding it!

[@jmwoods190]

My interpretation of the ending of the finale goes like this: The 3rd hammer blow signifies 'the hero's death' as Alma Mahler indicated, then the somber low brass chorale may be an epitaph of the fallen hero; then the low strings croak out the menacing 4-note motif twice, acknowledging that fate has triumphed, then the orchestra gives out the final shriek, as if fate was giving out its cheer of victory. Also the beginning passage of the finale is actually in C minor, the relative minor of Eb major of the Andante, as if you were ending the idyllic respite of the Andante back into the battle. Also the fact that the Scherzo dies out in the end makes the entrance of the Andante much smoother. So I firmly side with the Scherzo/Andante order as with both you & Dave.

[@lesonyrra]

Very much appreciate the connection of the piece's form to the Aristotelean definition of tragedy (I spent way too much time in graduate school on A's Poetics). Thanks.

[@stevieb6368]

Bravo! Lennie/VPO every time. The first time I heard this recording on vinyl, those trumpets just knocked me flat. Out of all the many recordings I own, no one else does it the way Mahler wanted it. Levine with the LSO (RCA Red Seal 1977) is also impressive, but I couldn't live without Haitink/Concertgebouw, Bernstein's earlier cycle, or the wonderful Klaus Tennstedt with the LPO. All great recordings. Rattle's excellent Berlin Phil recording (his final concert as chief conductor) on BluRay and CD is a big investment, but worth it. However, Bernstein will always be number one for me.

[@stevieb6368]

@@carlosrobertobarbosamoreir9030 That must have been memorable. The Blu-ray is great to watch, as are the Documentaries included, but being there would've been fantastic.

[@patrickhows1482]

Thank you another excellent talk. I agree with you about the order of the movements, but on CD you can choose the order of the movements with less hassle than on vinyl when it was spread over two LPs. My own favourite is Bernstein/NYPO, which I first had on LP with the weird album cover. Another version I like is Szell and the Cleveland orchestra, which is a very classical approach, quite a contrast to LB, but fascinating. Despite the ending it is an inspiring work, after the two hammer blows the music regroups and tries to battle on; it has none of the icy emptiness of the end of Vaughan Williams' Sinfonia Antarctica, which like Mahler 6 deals with heroic failure.

[@XerxesLangrana]

David, thank you so much for reintroducing me to Mahler's 6th. The first recording that I ever heard was Cleveland/Szell. I came across your Great Artist, Bad Day video a few days ago where you spoke about it 😀This was a revelation because all these years, I always avoided listening to the 6th after hearing Szell's account, thinking that this work isn't for me. As much as I admire Szell, I now understand that great artists can sometimes have a different point of view of a particular work which can have unfavorable results. Thank you for all the recommendations. Luckily, most of them are available as downloads from Presto Classical. Bernstein, Gielen and Haitink versions have become my favorites. I was also lucky to get my hands on the St. Petersburg Phil/Thomas Sanderling recording which is excellent. I hope you'll do a video about him someday. I've never heard any of his work and hope to explore more of his performances.

[@enriquelasansky4412]

My favorite is Abbado with Berlin-spectacular and deeply felt.

[@marnieesjolander1831]

Mine too! It’s awesome.

[@harisamp]

Oh, David! I just discovered your yt channel. A few days before Christmas. What s gift! You are my Santa Claus! Thanks a lot Santa! I merit it. I' ve been a good boy all year long.

[@johndahlen4698]

It's Karajan and the BPO for me. No other version matches the barbarity and the beauty that seems to be Karajan's strength in Mahler. I do agree that Gielen's version is outstanding. It's a very close second on my list.

[@Rodders74]

Never understood why the Karajan doesn’t even rate a mention here. Fair enough it might not be his absolute favourite but to not even rate it here seems remarkably snobby.

[@jackdahlquist2977]

I haven't heard the Gielen recording of the Sixth but I had the great good fortune of attending his phenomenal performance of it with the Cincinnati Symphony not during his time as its music director but later as guest conductor. It was stunning, shattering and unforgettable. I plan to hear his recording.

[@ralphbruce1174]

I have Bernstein, Chailly and Kubelik, Mitropoulos at New York and recently St_Laurent Studio gave a wonderful restoration of Mitropoulos with the Vienna PHilharmonic.

[@dr2549]

A funny thing happend to me on my way to the perfect Mahler's 6th: Choosing to listen on KZbin to Abbado's Berlin, which I remembered as the most moving and "right" for me - I was indeed moved to tears an chills again, amazed at the sound, thrust and power. It was even better then I remembered! But - allas - on checking again I found that I was actually listening to...Leif Segerstam! hmmm...

[@ertatta]

Atlanta/Levi is my go to 6th. Glad to see you acknowledge it.

[@ian_btv]

Atlanta's brass section (particularly via James Thompson and Brice Andrus' fine leaderships) were at their peak, IMHO. Much of what I admire of Montreal/OSM's sound (live and recordings), just preceding that era (roughly 1985-1995), is here. P.S. Spano's Carnegie concerts with Atlanta symphony and chorus in the last decade - Belshazzar's Feast and Britten War Requiem - were this-is-what-it's-all-about moments for me. Cheers!

[@ertatta]

@@ian_btv I believe Jim Thompson had already left the ASO for Eastman by the time Spano took over. I know my ol buddy Tom Hooten is playing principal on some of the early Spano Telarc recordings.

[@ian_btv]

@@ertatta Howdy! Yes, Spano proceeds Thompson's tenure by a long while. For the Carnegie programs, Andrus had already registered his soon-retirement. This Mahler 6 was recorded right after the 1996-1997 season - and his trumpet godly sound is unmistakable! Almost as epic as his 1996 Olympics performance - lol. I am overdue to reconnect with him. Cheers!

[@wiener123]

Hello, I would recommend next to Bernstein the fantastic recording with Boulez/Vienna Philharmonic and the new edition "In memoriam Michael Gielen" which contains two versions of the 6th (1971 and 2013), very very different in every sense but stirring and well recorded, even the 1971 studio version. It's a fascinating development of 42 years conducting this symphony. Greetings from Germany, your videos are fantastic!!

[@Barbirollifan]

Solti was my first/"learner set" for Mahler. As a horn player it was amazing to hear Mahler with such athletic brass playing. As time went on and I heard other interpretations I have grown away from Solti's Mahler. However, I have always loved the manic energy of his 6th and I still go back and listen from time to time for the adrenaline rush. Glad to see it get a mention. Not sure I could see it be someone's only recording of the 6th, though. I guess I could say that about just about any 6th, though!!

[@charlescoleman5509]

Completely agree with you about the two hammer blows and the order of 2nd & 3rd movements. I’m so glad you clarified that this is about music and its form. Not some moral fatalistic crap.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I'm glad you agree. Thank you.

[@charlescoleman5509]

By the way, if that spot near the had a third hammer blow, I don’t agree that the music afterwords has to stop. Yes, the hero is dead. But isn’t the music afterwords kind of a funeral dirge by the trombones? This passage is the only spot in the whole movement where there’s a sense of calm and acceptance. Like death itself. Just a thought. In any case, as I said before, there shouldn’t be a 3rd blow simply because the music isn’t the same as it is for the first two. Always love your commentary, David.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

@@charlescoleman5509 My point is that for "tragedy" to happen the "hero" doesn't have to die at all. Oedipus doesn't die. He is blinded and exiled. The coda certainly could represent a "dirge for the hero" but that entails a shift in focus within the movement from a "subjective" to "objective" narrative, if you will, that can't be achieved without some external programmatic explanation as to what is going on, and that seems (to me) inconsistent with Mahler's intentions in his revisions, as well as totally unnecessary in order to realize the music's tragic purpose.

[@charlescoleman5509]

It’s so great to see kind of thing debated on a forum like KZbin. It makes us nerdy musicians feel more ‘relevant’. Thanks David.

[@Dr-Sardonicus]

It's the Sanderling for me, although I do like the DG Bernstein. Glad that you rate the Solti too, its a wonderfully detailed recording.

[@AlexMadorsky]

For those of you of the Andante-Scherzo persuasion (I’m not typically, but variety is the spice of life and all that), I’m listening to Ivan Fischer’s 6th with the Budapest Festival Orchestra right now and the driving rhythms and clarity of sound are about as good as it gets.

[@tristanshumans]

I've really enjoyed all of your videos that I have managed to watch thus far, and indeed am looking forward to checking out several of your recommended recordings that have caught my interest. In this case I disagree with many of your points regarding the order of the inner movements, both in the video and in your article that you linked. So I'll present a few of my thoughts, not to be argumentative but simply to offer a different perspective. I much prefer hearing the Andante second, and I believe there are stronger arguments to be put forth than that Mahler simply wanted to give his audience a more "familiar" and easily digestable experience. The tragic narrative of the symphony is actually EMPHASIZED when the Andante carries over the optimism of the end of first movement, which is then perverted by the recalling of discord in the Scherzo afterward. The narrative function of the first movement's triumphant ending followed by the Andante is to get ones hopes up, because dashing the hopes of the Andante and reversing the effect of the first movement's conclusion are the principal events that make the whole symphony tragic. No hope, no tragedy. The basic principle of cyclic structure underlying this observation is that thematic returns of dark material are a way of reopening the conflicts of the first movement late in the cycle. It is a thoroughly standard way of putting the climax of the dramatic arc near the last act, as is standard in narrative literature and drama. Beethoven's "Appassionata," Schumann's 4th and violin sonata in A minor, Frank's Symphony and violin sonata, Tchaikovsky 4 and 5, Rachmaninoff's first two symphonies, 3rd concerto and 2nd sonata, Prokofiev's 6th and 8th piano sonatas and first violin sonata, Shostakovich's 8th and 10th symphonies, 10th quartet, Miaskovsky's 9th and 17th symphonies, and many more. More traditonal, more "classical" to be sure -- but based on very sound and convicing aesthetic principles. I also believe the mysterious opening of the finale sounds better following the fiery scherzo. Alternatively, I find placing the scherzo second is unsatisfactory for three reasons. The first movement has a frenetically positive conclusion on the second theme - a bit too positive, as it turns out. To countermand this conclusion by immediately reopening the symphony's principal conflict, as the scherzo does (by its relationship to the first theme of the first movement), is anticlimactic. It merely threatens less emphatically what the principal theme of the first movement asserted more powerfully. And since the principle theme failed to win the day in the first movement, the weaker reassertion is just lame. Secondly, because the timpani receives a grievous beating at the end of first movement, beginning the next movement with more timpani pounding is tiresome, especially since that pounding is now serving the opposing force. Absence makes the ear grow fonder, which is why the return of the timpani works better after the intervening Andante. And finally, the ascendancy of the second theme at the end of the first movement is meaningless if it has no consequence, that is, if its achievement is immediately reversed. The Andante makes sense afterwards because it rewards this ascendancy. The meaning is: By powerfully asserting the positive second theme at the end of the first movement, a beautiful and idyllic respite is won. On the other hand, following the Andante, the scherzo is not anticlimactic, as it is following the first movement, because its threat now has a clear object: It acts as a threat to the idyllic state established in the Andante. Moreover, it is no longer in direct contrast with its more powerful source idea in the first movement, where it was overshadowed. It is also worth pointing out that following the Scherzo, the Andante is completely unmotivated. A long rhapsody of calm is not a coherent response to a threat. On the other hand, it is a perfect response to a first movement concluding with the powerful assertion of its most positive sentiments. My conclusion: in the order S-A, both the scherzo and the Andante are dramatically unmotivated non sequiturs. In the order A-S both movements have a deep expressive and psychological coherence. As for Mahler's intentions, after having read up on the matter, which as I said includes your essay linked in the description, from what I can tell there isn't any ambiguity on Mahler's viewpoint. After Mahler had decided to put the Andante before the Scherzo preceding that first performance, he never looked back. He never wavered, he never performed it another way, and he made his publisher reprint the score with the Andante-Scherzo order. No record exists of any verbal or written instructions from Mahler to friends, conductors, publishers that lead us to believe he intended to revert the sequence of the movements to S-A. And as for Alma, I do not see how she is a reliable source,. Did she compose and conduct the symphony, or did he? Was she Mahler's collaborator? No, she was his wife, and she contradicted herself numerous times. Let's just say, hypothetically, Mahler did tell Alma his final vision, as his one and only confidant. When was Alma planning on speaking out about this!?!?!?! She waits for a telegram asking her opinion before she says anything!?!?!?! As Jerry Bruck's essay on the subject has pointed out, she not only never said a peep about any other conductor performing the work A-S, but when she begin writing a memoir of her life with Mahler about a year after the Mengelberg telegram, she herself referred to Scherzo as the third movement of the sixth. So who knows why she told Mengelberg S-A? I'm not even saying there was malicious intent involved. She probably misremembered, or maybe she was thinking of the fist time Mahler performed the work for her on piano. I mean, this is the same woman who recalled memories of Mahler composing the third at Maiernigg when in fact he composed it at his lakeside cottage in Steinbach. So again, we seem to know Mahler's intentions for the 6th as certainly as we know his wishes in every other case, and if you call doubt into play here I don't see why you can't theoretically call doubt into play for all of his revisions, in all of his symphonies. Of course this doesn't change the fact that following the critical edition published by Erwin Ratz in the 1960s, many of Mahler's greatest intepreters and most of the best recordings performed the symphony in the S-A order, creating a seperate performance tradition. I just don't agree that the new critical edition invalidates that reality.

[@phamthanh4785]

I especially agree with you about the timpani being tiresome in the S-A order. After listening to the bass drum rolling like an artillery salvo in the end of the 1st movement (which is exceptionally loud on large speakers), having a pouding of a much lesser force that immediately follows is very anti-climatic at best.

[@theoedwards7805]

Some great points here👍

[@klop4228]

Agree 100%; David says having Scherzo-Finale is "too much of the same thing"; in my opinion, the obviously shared motives between the first movement and Scherzo are much more obviously "too much of the same thing". And yes, as you say, to follow up the "defeat" of the marching rhythm with an immediate return just undermines the entire first movement's development; returning to it from the idyllic Andante makes a contrast that scares us back into fear. Speaking of "too much of the same", putting Andante in the third slot not only gives us about half an hour of relentless marching rhythms, but follows that with 10-20 minutes of slow music. Following a slow movement with a slow introduction is a risky move, and one which Mahler just about pulls off (with a good conductor), but one which doesn't necessarily need to be done. Scherzo-Andante breaks up both of these long stretches effectively.

[@orichalak7914]

Thank you for this educative talk. In my personal preference I would add Kubelik and Bavaria Radio Symphony Orchestra to the top. The entire performance is rich of expressiveness without any exaggeration at all. Especially in the scherzo and andante movements

[@richardadams9122]

In my teens I got to know Mahler 2 and 4 then for a decade I had little opportunity to listen to classical music, let alone Mahler. Later I managed to cassette-tape an FM broadcast of the Dohnanyi/Cleveland Mahler 6 (Decca). In 1993 I read your review for another publication of a Chandos/Segerstam Mahler 6. So at age 44, riding back and forth from work in North Africa, I started listening to the Dohnanyi cassette in my car, which had my only cassette player. It provided sorely needed cultural contrast to my involvement overseas in the Arafat/Rabin negotiations. So you had a role in Mahler 6 re-igniting an interrupted enthusiasm. I have heard many versions since, admiring Gielen, Mitropoulos, Tennstedt, and both Bernsteins (as well as all the other symphonies). Dohnanyi is not the "best" but I still prefer the way the way the cowbell/alpine passages come across in that recording. Not surprisingly, after Rabin's assassination in Nov 1995, I have associated him with the tragic character of Mahler's 6.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Thanks for sharing this fascinating personal story!

[@lovettboston]

Good to hear an explanation of "tragic." If there is any central human figure in Mahler's 6th, it would be the drummer in "Revelge," which is one more example of a song the composer elaborated in a later instrumental work (not unlike Mozart instrumental works channeling the spirit of his operas). The drummer can be thought of as a zombie, or metaphorically as the survivor of trauma who will never be the same. In the 19th century, lots of people, even with some material advantages, lived with trauma of some kind. Mozart's No. 40 is as tragic as any symphony can be, and so is Tchaikovsky's 6th, even though they both differ from Mahler's work in many ways. For the ancient Greeks, the agents of tragedy were divine, but anthropomorphic, even in feeling. Mahler's sense of drama and scale owes a lot to Wagner, not to mention Beethoven and Bruckner, but his notion of fate is a thing of a later time. Mahler's fate is inhuman in an almost mechanical sense, evolving in the early decades of mechanical reproduction for many things, including music. That's why I consider the hammer less a symbol of fate "coming down" than, more explicitly, a sound from beyond the boundary of music. It's like the mindless sounds at the end of "Wozzeck" or the percussive fadeouts that Shostakovich used in his 4th and 15th symphonies, and in his 2nd cello concerto. In the latter cases, it's as if fateful chime of Russian church bells had morphed into just another machine that never dies. As James Joyce pointed out, there's a big difference between tragedy and personal misfortune. I first heard Mahler's 6th more than 50 years ago, so I'm familiar with the biographical lore. The only thing that matters is what Mahler meant when he said a symphony is like the world. He didn't mean just the scale. He meant how music tunes in to what surrounds us, how it reverberates inside us, even if it's not exclusively about any one of us as an individual.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Thank you for sharing these very interesting observations!

[@perswenson9210]

Hi, this was a coment of degree. Me as a less of un intelectual think of the mechnical refering to un interplay between objectivity and subjectivity. The tragic in the fate of Mahler might be he wanted to belive like the 2 symphony but could not. The 5 th witch try to be optemistic somewhat becames unstable in the last movement, the humur, the harmonies, the end. I just begun listning seriously to Mahler but tried in the late 80th. Went for the bernstein talk, after hearing it all I bought the 7 th, pretty ok. But now Solti / London is the one. I hear the connection beetween the Shönberg / Webern circle a lot more. I listen mostly to vinyl and some transformations to cd dont sound so good. My choice for Mahler is, no1 Neumann / Solti. No 2 Kubelic/Haitink. For the first and second Walter, the Austrian leider touch is alive here among other things. On CD I ve bought the Gielen and Chially circles but have not got to it yet, The bernstein is like tickle the senses stuff, watching girls on the catewalk.

[@cashelnd]

I so appreciate this lucid rationale for the sequencing of the second and third movements!

[@johns9624]

We're really in synch here, Dave. Your top three are exactly the same, and in the same order, as mine. In fact Chailly's performance is the only one I'll listen to besides Lennie's two. The cover of his New York recording on lp was very odd but somehow apt: photo of a decapitated statue that looks like it's been smothered in Hollywood ketchupy gore. I was so fascinated by the work back in the 60s I spent months reading through a pocket version of the score borrowed from Liverpool Public Library while playing the Bernstein recording. These days I pull out the VPO recording only about once a year because it's impossible to listen to anything else for days after hearing it, it leaves me drained.

[@presbyterosBassI]

We sang in a chorus the Beethven Missa Solemnis at Alice Tully. My wife was pregnant, and standing near the bass drum. When the bass drum went off, so did my daughter, in utero.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Told ya!

[@christopherfinlay6478]

Hi having just discovered your channel just before Xmas and on you recommendation I was lucky enough to procure my self a copy of the Bertini box set from Oxfam. Anyway I have just listened to the 6th symphony and so far I have to say it is one of the best performances I have ever heard. Anyway just a bit surprised you didn't mention it in this review

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Can't mention everything. Bertini gets the "best cycle" prize anyway.

[@colinwrubleski7627]

Heartily agree that the Scherzo should be second... however, I often think that for this symphony, Mahler should have have included a second Scherzo, with the Andante being the central fulcrum of the work. Having a second Scherzo would also be logical to immediately precede the slow music of the introduction to the Finale... Since virtually everyone talks about the "classical" nature of the 6th (Cowbells and celesta, and wooden hammer, and a 30+-minute finale??? What a risible idea!!!), critics would hate a 5th movement, but it seems highly logical to me...

[@robmathes2518]

Fantastic exegesis on the middle movements. Could not agree more. Hammer blows also. Three Hammers?? Original orchestration. Revised orchestration? Two hammers! Bravo Dave!

[@Muzakman37]

You're so right, every man & his dog has recorded this work (my personal favourite Mahler symphony, it's just shattering in a good performance). It's become another Rite of Spring in it's recorded ubiquity, but that's also cos, just like The Rite, it's a fabulous work. It pains me when I hear pedestrian/workaday performances of this work, the worst culprit possibly being Noseda with the BBC Phil in the Proms some years ago, a shame as they've been fantastic in other repertoire. I'm not familiar with the Gielen but having really warmed to his execution of many tough & rare 20th century works, I'll seek it out cos I'm sure he'll bring out things others have missed or bypassed. I still have a soft spot for Rattle's CBSO version, not the EMI recording (although that is very good) but his Prom performance with them some years ago. I've still never heard the slow chorale/funeral march at the heart of the Finale done with such effect as they do in that performance. It was the Karajan recording that first really switched me on to just how great this symphony is, years ago, and it still stands up to all the other versions that have emerged since, it's tremendously exciting and the fact he only ever recorded 5,6 & 9 showed how much he must've loved the work. Can't say I have a favourite though, there are just too many great recordings of this work, so many in fact that I haven't listened to the Rattle or the Karajan versions for years now.

[@pastrychef1985]

Mackerras with the BBC Phil is my absolute favourite recording, probably because as an operatic conductor he understood the operatic phrasing and sensibilities that Mahler, an operatic conductor, seemed to infuse most things he wrote with. I really don't get how so many music critics don't seem to pick up on what I see as obvious tableau building for an unfolding drama.

[@thescientificmusician3531]

You're right, Gielen is a phenomenal Mahler conductor. I think his Mahler 6th is available separately from the set, although the cycle is worth owning. If you're interested, you can get it in the Michael Gielen Edition, vol. 6 reasonably priced.

[@davidmckee2135]

Both Mackerras and (IIRC) Zander restore the original orchestration accompanying the third hammer blow. But you are right on vis-a-vis Scherzo/Andante.

[@ericjiang7801]

Totally agree with you about the ordering of the middle movements. There's another reason that I think seals the deal - the C minor beginning of the finale serves as a transition tonally between the Eb major 3rd movement and the rest of the A minor finale.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Thank you. I hadn't thought of that.

[@charlescoleman5509]

Maybe I’m overly nit-picking, but that very first chord in the Finale sounds to me more like an A flat dominant 7. It just starts with that low C. But I see what your talking about. ☺️

[@jmwoods190]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Also given the Scherzo's whimpering ending gives a smoother transition to the gentle beginning of the Andante. Plus given the long duration of the turbulent finale, having some respite in the form of the Andante movement makes more programmatic sense.

[@kentstrahlen2788]

I just stumbled over the Telarc in a shop and got it for the famous Telarc sound. To my surprise it turned out yo be the best 6 I had.

[@davidmayhew8083]

Looking forward to hearing the 2nd version by Bernstein. What about Barbarolli? Mistakes hear and there but gosh, I loved it! I really liked the almost Rite of Spring like march at the symphonies beginning. Uber dirge. That's all!

[@jjgghhjk]

the barbirolli is my favourite.

[@markharmer5114]

Yep, Lenny with the VPO has my vote for # 1. Also with the 5th (again the VPO) - they're both on my iPod of essential recordings - and his 7th with the NYPO is ground-breaking. Bernstein has that inner triptych of 5, 6 and 7 all sown up.

[@vKarl71]

I've never heard a recording of the 6th that I like as much as the Bernstein NY Phil but I'm very happy to learn of these recordings to check out. I did hear a terrific live performance by NY Phil under Boulez once upon a time. It was a time when the musicians of that orchestra usually slept through performances but he really woke them up. I recall the first movement was quite fast and the Andante was really lush. Boulez's much later recording of the 6th on DGG is a horror.

[@Barbirollifan]

I've been buying Bernstein's individual CD's from both cycles and I have quite a few. But somehow neither of his 6ths! I just gave in and bought both boxes (Sony, DG). It's time, especially at these prices! I used to work at a Classical CD store and several other employees convinced me that Bernstein's way was not true to Mahler. Over the years, little by little, one symphony at a time I have found that not to be true. Thank you for putting into words something I have felt about Bernstein for so long!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

You are very welcome.

[@johnkim3840]

Thanks for the excellent discussion and review. One comment on the Telarc recording. Yoel Levi DID include the 1st movt exposition repeat during the recording session. But later Telarc decided to cut it out to fit the entire performance onto a single disc. Apart from it, I concur it is a great Mahler Sixth.

[@johnkim3840]

You list of M6ths is excellent. I'd add on that list: Tennstedt/LPO (live), Pappano, Harding/BRSO. Rattle's last concert in Berlin is pretty good too, especially the Finale.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Thanks for the info!

[@johnkim3840]

@@DavesClassicalGuide With the repeat Levi's 1st movt. runs just over 22 min and it balances out the 31 min long Finale nicely.

[@irinadragos]

@@johnkim3840 I second pappano. It’s a great performance, very lyrical

[@janosvajda7554]

I also like very much to learn the opinion of other fans of Mahler and when a new recording or concert video appears and praised, I like hunting for them. In Mahler's Sixth after listening Dave's considerations and evaulations, went through my Mahler 6's and it turned out that the atmost favourite is Currentzis musicAeterna beeing the most serious in every note and moment. It became obvious when I compared them from phrase to phrase

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Curentzis isn't bad, but it has too many lapses in conducting and failures to realize Mahler's clear intentions. It is also not well recorded. Here is my original review if you are curious about some of the details: www.classicstoday.com/review/mahler-sixth-from-gulag-currentzis/?search=1

[@janosvajda7554]

@@DavesClassicalGuide You are great, Dave, thanks, I am reading your review (but at the moment not convinced)

[@janosvajda7554]

Dave, I feel a bit shamed, I have been so grabbed by the crisp sound of the march and found that musicmaking fit to my taste, that I became superficial in the other details. Thanks for my Verklärung

[@joewebb1983]

Enjoyed the analysis of the piece before the recommendations, totally agree that the only place for the scherzo is after the first movement. I'm also not precious about the first movement repeat but I do enjoy it! Agree with the majority of your recommendations especially for Bernstein/VPO at number one... It's a tremendous recording, have it on DVD also. Eschenbach has been mentioned in the comments, I enjoy that recording too. I know Sinopoli is slow a lot of the time but in Mahler 6 I don't think he's that bad... The playing is first rate and he does this as well as any of his best Mahler. More recent recordings I like are by Jonathan Nott/Bamberg and Daniel Harding/Bavarian Radio - both superbly played by the orchestras and the conductors do a great job of keeping the momentum going from the first bars with enough tension where required!

[@felixjimenezmendez8695]

Hello Mr. Hurwitz: I agree with you about the order Scherzo-Andante. On the other hand, I liked your selection, I will listen to Levi's recording carefuly. May I suggest you to take a look (listening) to Harold Farberman/LSO and Teodor Currentzis/MusicAeterna? Great review!

[@JackBurttrumpetstuff]

You are right, there are dozens of fine recordings. Can’t mention them all, but... wish you would have discussed the Barbirrolli/Philharmonia. Such a fascinating recording! 1) Best analog orchestral sound -ever- that I know of - especially the strings and percussion! Amazing intensity! 2) best hammerblow, to my ears: heavy, dark and wooden, not booomy. 3) weirdest - yet like a car crash on the side of the road that you can’t look away from it - 1st movement tempo. He does not take the first movement exposition repeat, but his recording time is longer than many who do! 4) the philharmonia (1967) play their butts off! Barbirolli’s 5th a year later, is somnolent in comparison, not nearly as interesting... doesn’t even get the trumpet triplets correct in the beginning...

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Most people feel just the opposite with regard to the respective merits of B's 5th and 6th, but I appreciate your taking the time to explain what specifically you like about the performance so viewers can decide for themselves.

[@JackBurttrumpetstuff]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Right! It's almost a party recording - bring it out for a laugh... (Nevertheless I love it... ) I just think its a fascinating recording- beyond the highly debatable qualities of the performance. As for his 5th, not a fan. As a trumpeter, I can't get by the willful disregard of the 'Triolen immer flüchtig" in the opening fanfares, which are written into the part and into the score... Also, comically, the lyrical trumpet solo later in the first movement, with the violas, which is marked "muta in F" (change to F trumpet transposition, from the earlier B flat), is played muted... Barbirolli's Ninth with Berlin, their 1st ever Mahler recording, if I am not mistaken, is wonderful.. EMI was great in that era...

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

@@JackBurttrumpetstuff I think that Ninth is dreadful, poorly played and recorded, and woefully under-inflected. I'm frankly shocked at the attention it gets. As for the textual issues, there were always a lot of them in the Fifth. Bear in mind that it was pre-critical edition (I believe) and there seem to have been some pretty significant differences in the parts that various orchestras used. The Czech Phil recording under Neumann also has some anomalies in that regard.

[@JackBurttrumpetstuff]

David Hurwitz... ha! I really like that recording, I think I give it a benefit of the doubt given how early it was, 1963, and that it’s the Berliners first go at Mahler... Strangely enough, we both agree that the Karajan fifth is great. Not many people do, even though it has sold very well... I tried to convince Karajans biographer Richard Osborne of that in a couple of letters. We agreed to disagree! I think it’s a fantastic recording for all the reasons you mentioned. As much as there are so many great recordings of the sixth, I think Karajans Andante is sublime ( and in the correct position!) When I want to hear just that movement, one of my favorite single pieces ever, I reach for that recording.. Last question- do you know the background of the new edition of the ninth? In particular the changing of a prominent note in the trumpets in a first movement fanfare? I’ve tried to find out the reasoning behind the change and have never succeeded. You can hear the difference in the two karajan recordings. He famously used Bernstein’s parts for his first, studio recording of it. And a second set of the new critical edition parts for the live recording. In bar 179 on beat three in the second trumpet, the early edition has an A flat. The new addition has an Anatural. It’s quite noticeable, and there is no explanation for the change in the new critical addition. I know these type of things interest you, and frustrate you, as they do me. Give it a listen. Thank you for responding so generously to my comments. I’ll leave you in peace for.a while! Jack

[@bernardohanlon3498]

Lenny in the M6 - the Double Schmaltz Attack!

[@gregorprozesky]

What do you think about the live interpretation of Tennstedt with the LPO? I n my mind it is on the point.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Very passionate and exciting.

[@e.smeltzer9286]

I got a fever and the only prescription is more hammer blows! I would love a symphony make this interactive for their audience. Perhaps sell one ticket for two performances. Play the piece one way/interpretation (i.e.the order of the movements, initial v. "final" version) then have the audience back for a second interpretation. Then let us decide. Or have a series where there is a lecture or Q&A associated with a performance where there is an opportunity for dialogue between fans, musicians, conductors, and scholars.

[@paulmadore7795]

Dave, just curious as to your thoughts on the Benjamin Zander version on Telarc? I like it because a) it places the Scherzo ahead of the Andante b) it provides both the 2 hammer blow & 3 hammer blow versions c) the tempo of the opening movement is just a bit slower than others I've heard and just feels "right" to me in its steadfastness. If you hate it, that's fine - I can take it!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

It's a very mediocre performance. Here's my original review, if you're curious, where I do explain exactly why: www.classicstoday.com/review/review-7999/?search=1

[@paulmadore7795]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Dave, thanks for sharing this! Very insightful critique.

[@Fernwald84]

I don't think many performers realize how harmful certain exaggerated bodily movements and facial expressions can be to their performances. In Bernstein's case, his over the top conductorial acrobatics easily suggest an exaggerated musical performance. But, if you follow his Mahler conducting with a score and eschew watching Bernstein on the podium, you will be surprised at how accurately he reproduces that score. The influence of one of his teachers of conducting, the exacting Fritz Reiner, has definitely not been lost.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Very true observation!

[@francisconogueira3167]

Please do the 2nd symphony 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

[@abdul7591]

I became acquainted with this work from Jascha Horenstrin’s, which appeared on a Nonesuch LP.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

A horrible performance, badly recorded.

[@michaelmouse4024]

Bernstein is vg but Karajan BPO on DG is also excellent - imo

[@burtbassy9645]

Karajan is better in the andante. His adagio's of the 4th, 5th, 6th & 9th are top of the bill, not only because of the strings sound, but by pacing and building up to the climax. Karajan's 6th finale is also a great job.

[@michaelmouse4024]

The HVK is excellent... I also like the Kubelik/BRSO & the Zander/PO.

[@atg1756]

I'd like to know your impressions of recording with Currentzis and Music Aeterna. It seemed like a very good option, at least in terms of sound quality and sound ambience. I'm also among those who prefer the third hammer. I really appreciate your videos, thank you.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Check out my review on ClassicsToday.com.

[@ranjitkunchur]

What do you think about Boulez with VPO? On DG

[@jimwhitson849]

Hi David! I gave the Bernstein/VPO a hard listen -- terrific as advertised. I've long had the Karajan studio recording in my head, and imagined that if there were to be a third hammerschlag, it would belong where the introduction returns (bar 773), as you said. However, Bernstein inserts it ten bars later (bar 782) with the timpani motif. I agree with you: placed there it serves no purpose.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Thanks for listening and sharing your impressions!

[@morrigambist]

Your enthusiasm is obvious! I believe Benjamin Zander added the original finale with the three hammer blows (at least part of it) to his second recording. For something completely different, try Barbirolli's recording which is too slow but really agonized. Thanks for the quick response.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Sure, I know the Barbirolli well, and you're right: too slow but certainly agonized! As to Zander, well, I just think he's more talk than music,

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

BTW, Zander does claim to restore seven bars of Mahler's original orchestration around the 3rd hammer blow, and then offers the whole finale again (!) without it, but it's not a successful performance on the whole. If you're curious, here is my original review: www.classicstoday.com/review/review-7999/?search=1

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

@@voltinoslav I know.

[@vilebrequin6923]

Karajan would have disagreed on the point made of the 6th leaving you elated. He ranked it with Sibelius 4 and Honneger's Liturgique as a work which left him emotionally drained for days afterwards.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

That's his problem.

[@DynastieArtistique]

Great video, however, I am shocked that you didn’t bring up Mitropolous’s recordings, which are acclaimed by many as some of the greatest Mahler recordings in history

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

They aren't great, and never were. He got attention merely for playing the music when it was still a rare event. The "acclaim of many" does not hold up to serious scrutiny, and it was never all that many to begin with.

[@DynastieArtistique]

⁠@@DavesClassicalGuideplaying something when it’s rare does not equal mediocrity. If that was the case, Adler’s Mahler recordings would have plenty of attention too. Mitro’s Mahler 6, as well as all his other Mahler recordings are well deserving of praise. Mitropolous has the darkest finale in my opinion, only second to Pretre’s 1991 recording. His andante is breathtakingly emotional and heartbreaking. His scherzo is heavy and foreboding and is at perfect tempo. And his first movement is spectacular as well. Nothing to not like about his Mahler 6.

[@michaelstearnes1526]

​@@DynastieArtistique Thank you for mentioning the Mitropolous performances. How can anyone be unmoved by his recordings of the Mahler 6 is beyond me. His Cologne performance recorded a week before his death is especially memorable.

[@DynastieArtistique]

@@michaelstearnes1526 I agree, he really is amazing

[@lazza1160]

Have you listened to petrenko M6 with BPO in the last sort-of mahler cycle made by BPO with multiple conductors? I feel its not as good as bernstein and gielen but i cant scratch my head finding the precise reasons why i feel like that. Opinions on that recording?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Not yet. I have it, but have only heard it once and I need to give it some time.

[@james.t.herman]

Dave, what do you think of the Mahler Sixth by Mehta and the Israel Philharmonic on Teldec? I think it's a '96 recording. I once met the first trumpet player on that record and he was proud of it.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I think it was pretty good, but I haven't heard it in a very long time.

[@james.t.herman]

@@DavesClassicalGuide That trumpet player told me that the Israel Phil had a very good locally grown string section, since Jewish culture values string playing and woodwind playing. But he said they were hard up for brass players, so they hired many of them from abroad. He told me that the tuba player in that late '90s Israel Phil brass section was a converted Israeli string player. He's from Madison, Wisconsin, and is now the principal player in the Baltimore Symphony. Americans have tended to take wind and brass playing a lot more seriously - hence the great jazz trumpeters and sax players, then.

[@bluetortilla]

Watching "Mahler Symphony no. 6 "Tragic" - Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra - Leonard Bernstein" I count three hammer blows, though the last is purely orchestral (no big wooden hammer- just bass drums but what's the difference really?) and is at the very end of the finale Emotionally, it has the same effect as the other hammer blows. I guess it's the 'death blow.'.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

No, Bernstein uses the hammer three times--but the last one isn't where you think it is, which is why Mahler deleted it ultimately.

[@bluetortilla]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Yes, you're right. I just listened to the movement (well, the whole 6th) on Bernstein's Sony addition again. Actually, I kind of lost count of the sudden shocks and ebbs throughout the finale. I really love Mahler. He evokes emotions that in my workday life I'm too distracted to feel or even be aware I have. I don't know or really care how Mahler stands up say, next to Beethoven or Bach as a composer. They are the greats that they are and he is like he said, "a symphony must be like the world.' Mahler accomplishes that in his symphonies. Sorry for going off on a tangent.

[@henriquelohmann]

​@@DavesClassicalGuideIs Mahler's original placement of the third hammer blow at the start of the final repeat of the introduction (as in Bernstein's Vienna recording) or near its end (as in his NY recording and the Vienna video)? Or is that a point of discussion in the critical editions? Personally, I find the former more satisfying, because of how it breaks up the preceding climax, sealing the symphony's fate in a way. Going on a tangent, and somewhat against your thoughts on the subject, I first listened to Bernstein's Vienna recording because of your recommendation and it actually sold me on the idea of the third hammer blow. There's something neat in the two major signposts of the finale (the intro repeats and the hammer blows) finally coming together. Thanks for the talk and the recommendation! Cheers!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

@@henriquelohmann There is no difference in any of Bernstein's recordings or videos. You are incorrect in your description. I know it doesn't sound that way, but it was the same in all three performances.

[@henriquelohmann]

​@@DavesClassicalGuideI thought I'd heard a third hammer blow there, but it was just my amateur analysis crashing down. Oops. That said, there's *something* in the spot I've mentioned in the DG Bernstein that sounds uncannily like the hammer itself. I wonder what happened there. Anyway, thanks for the insight!

[@barryguerrero7652]

Yep, I'm also a two strokes, scherzo/andante kind of guy. However, David, regarding the 'first version' writing that surrounds the third hammer stroke: Simone Young made a recording where she sticks with the first version from that strange glissando that leads into the third stroke, all the way to the beginning of the funereal dirge in the low brass. It's interesting because the first version has this dark sounding crescendo in the low woodwinds, as they sort of gliss. or slur down to a unison low "A" - just before the start of the dirge. It's really dark and creepy sounding. You might not agree, but I wish somebody would record the entire finale with the first version score (I know, I know!). I just think that would be a hoot.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I do agree!

[@daviddavenport9350]

My God....that Bernstein clip.....it sounds as if that could have been written in the 1960s!

[@pawdaw]

I'll be lynched but I am a fan of the Zinman recording of the Sixth. Yes, the Andante is second. But you can hear the harps and celeste/s, and the cowbells are wonderfully atmospheric. Great hammer blows. However, it's the projection of the work's structure that really impresses me - Zinman attentively shapes the Classical elements of the form as much as he relishes the orchestral brilliance.

[@Mahlerialiszt]

Concur, Zinman does a fine 6th with Zurich. Milwaukee with Delfs is another sleeper.

[@Peter-wd1yo]

I liked Zinman's tempo in the 1st movement. Many take it too fast. This shortens the string strokes and makes them less menacing. Abaddo and Bernstein almost make it sound like a jolly gallop. Barbirolli of course is too slow and he shortens the strokes. I hated it. Zinman reaches a good halfway.

[@jackwilmoresongs]

An interesting and beautiful symphony. It is like a circus like march to the grave with frequent backward looks at nostalgic youthful days. A heroic upward struggle being pulled down every time by fate. A funeral march beat ever underneath. I favor the scherzo second as I first heard it. The Andante oasis, imo, HAS to go third before the last fourth movement. Does not work for me as a second movement. I saw it live with New York Phil under William Steinberg.

[@gregorywoodbridge7590]

One lovely thing about Bernstein/NYP is his ability to bleed off the energy/ tempo at the end of the Andante and still continue the line without it sounding crowbarred. Very organic.

[@herrbrahms]

Dave, I have a bone to pick with you. How dare you stop that recording the moment before the contrabassoon shakes the floor with its C1?

[@jonobester5817]

I don't know all of Mahler's symphonies, but do you think the 6th and the 4th are his best?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

No.

[@jonobester5817]

@@DavesClassicalGuide So which is the best?

[@dion1949]

Shostakovich's 4th symphony is tragic also, but very entertaining to listen to.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

No, it's not tragic at all, but as you say, very entertaining.

[@amyzoltick5998]

what do you think of Szell's live version of the 6th

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Dreadful.

[@edwardcasper5231]

Just curious. Do any of your recommended performances have the Andante second? I know Solti's is Scherzo/Andante because I've heard it often and was living in Chicago when it was being performed and recorded. I tend to look at the orchestra before the conductor, and Chicago's brass section was hard to beat in that era (and as a trombone player, I'm biased that way). Personally speaking, the order of the inner movements makes no difference in my enjoyment of the piece, nor does the number of hammer blows.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

No, I prefer the scherzo second for many reasons.

[@edwardcasper5231]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Thanks. I was just wondering. I read your article and saw the video, and you make very compelling points. But the order of the inner movements and the number of hammer blows really doesn't matter to me one way or another. But that's me. Thanks again.

[@edwardcasper5231]

Some color on the hammer blows (not that it makes a lot of difference), I heard Solti's recording of the Sixth before I saw the piece performed, and it's hard to tell where the hammer blows are in that recording. That particular hammer didn't have a distinct enough sound to my ignorant ear to tell where it came in (according to the liner notes Solti keeps the "third" hammer blow. Now that I've seen performances, I know where the blows are.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

@@edwardcasper5231 Sure, whatever you like is fine if it works for you.

[@edwardcasper5231]

@@DavesClassicalGuide - As the old saying goes, "There's no accounting for taste." LOL Love the talks - and love the strong opinions.

[@williamwhittle216]

All my Mahler sixths VPO,L.Bernstein BPO,H.Karajan New Philharmonia O,J.Barbirolli Philadelphia O,C.Eschenbach NYPO,L.Bernstein Cleveland O,G.Szell Atlantta SO,Y.Levi

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Eschenbach is also very good.

[@morrigambist]

Some of mine are in storage, but I have so many I have lost count. It must be my favorite symphony.

[@ethanb2554]

😳 taking the wife to see the 6th in a couple weeks with M.T.T.... and she is in fact pregnant, should I warn her about the hammer blow??

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I would.

[@TheCastlepoet]

Am I the only person who really gets a kick out of the first movement and then completely loses interest in the rest of the symphony? (At least this attitude solves, for me, the issue of the order of the two inner movements and the number of hammer blows at the end. Talk about cutting the Gordian Knot!) Not only that, but although I have at least ten recordings of this symphony (because I own at least nine sets of the complete Mahler symphonies), the only one I ever listen to--just the first movement, of course--is the "singleton" in my collection: the ultra-self-indulgent Barbirolli. Go figure. ~John Drexel

[@spotlightfloodlight]

John, this is exactly where I'm at too. I am slowly learning to love Mahler, but it's process. I now LOVE the 1st and 5th symphonies. This one, like you, I love the first movement and the rest? ... I'm working on it. David Hurwitz, any suggestions? What should we be listening for to "get it". There are some beautiful melodies in the Andante, but the whole last movement? I'm struggling. What am I listening to? haha. It's such a big ambiguous wash. ... I guess I'll just listen again! - Peter

[@SpongeMindTV]

​@@spotlightfloodlight I'm not David of course but as a long time listener of Mahler's music, I can perhaps give you this advice: When you listen to one of his symphonies, especially the sixth, imagine you are "watching" the work instead of listening to it. Imagine you have scenes unfolding in front of you instead of symphonic sections. It opens a lot of doors in terms of appreciating Mahler's music. Good luck!

[@spotlightfloodlight]

@@SpongeMindTV thank you! I’m happy to report, I now love this symphony! I’m not sure which version I was listening to, but I’m now listening Bernstein and I get it now. The opening movement is absolutely terrifying! Ha. And the slow movement is just so emotional. Those melodies! Your visualization idea is the key. Yes.

[@SpongeMindTV]

@@spotlightfloodlight Fantastic! The more abstract the scenes in your head are, the better the experience is going to be. I hope that when listening to Mahler's (or anyone's) music you will see things you've never seen before. Then you would be much closer to the essence of the music :)

[@Plantagenet1956]

The volume is rather low on this video.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Yeah, that was before I figured out how to adjust it.

[@barrygray8903]

Excellent talk. I agree that the andante should be place third in the order of movements. Also in agreement with your assessments of the Bernstein/VPO, Levi/ASO, and Solti/CSO recordings. I rather like the Haitink/BPO recording despite what to my ears is a routine pedestrian account of the first movement. The Abbado/Chicago recording is very good and extremely well played, but it can't touch the intensity, excitement, and tension of Bernstein/VPO.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Thank you!

[@barrygray8903]

@@DavesClassicalGuide BTW two years ago our local symphony orchestra performed the Mahler 6 and gave a no-nonsense, thoroughly professional account. The big problem was -the Andante was placed second ! I silently screamed in dismay for a few seconds but settled in to enjoy the performance anyway.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

@@barrygray8903 Exactly, It's still Mahler 6!