Repertoire: The BEST Tchaikovsky Symphony Cycles

[@bomcabedal]

If there's one thing that is ever going to get me off classical music, it's the prevalence of snobbery EVERYWHERE. Tchaikovsky's great. I don't like everything at all times, but there's always something I do. The Mravinsky recordings of the 4th to 6th symphonies shaped my entrance into classical, and I'll always love them, and their composer, for it.

[@melodymaker135]

This exists in rock too. The Ramones would be roughly analogous to Tchaikovsky, with their simple songwriting and playing paralleling his overtly-catchy tunes and draw-you-in emotional appeal. Anybody who dismisses Tchaik or the Ramones (and there are many) immediately loses about 70% of his credibility for me.

[@hwelf11]

Another informative and entertaining survey. I concur with your remarks about T's writing for strings. I was astounded when I first saw the orchestral score of the finale of the Pathetique. I had grown up listening to that despairing and passionate theme which sounds like a straightforward descending B minor scale, with the lower strings harmonizing with diminished and dominant chords rhythmically in sync with the melody in (as I had thought) the first violins. But a glance at the score will show that as T. actually scored the theme, each of the four independent voices are jaggedly seesawing lines of alternating ascending and descending skips, which look like something out of one of Schoenberg's quartets; so that the descending diatonic scale we think we are hearing is something that our ears are assembling from the alternating notes of the upper two voices, the first and second violins. (The high F sharp which begins the theme is actually in the second violin part, and the following "E" is played by the Firsts! He certainly could have scored this theme in a more "normal" way, but his distribution, with the top voices alternating melody and harmony notes, creates a greatly intensified, more unsettling effect. Who but Tchaikovsky would have thought of arranging it this way? I was somewhat bemused to find that the only two complete sets of the symphonies in my CD collection happen to be the two you have selected as your "worst" and "best" choices - the sets that begin and end your extensive survey -- the Pletnev and the Markevitch! I guess I like to touch all the bases. Thanks again for these videos, and keep them coming!

[@raycatellier2079]

I absolutely love the Muti cycle. Reading the comments, it is clear that the 3rd symphony is much more loved than one might think, and please include me in that camp. The 3rd symphony is my favourite along with the 6th. I especially love the first and final movements of the 3rd. They are passionate, red blooded Tchaikovsky and vivaciously played by Muti and the Philharmonia.

[@loganfruchtman953]

Tchaikovsky’s Polish Symphony No 3 is really good and should be played more.

[@phamthanh4785]

It's funny how Karajan's Tchaikovsky First was the most Russian music I've ever heard

[@fgiord8fgg]

Vassily Petrenko's fifth is remarkable. he gets as much from the music as anyone can expect.the last movement is so exciting one can scarcely sit down.

[@maleake56]

Thanks for doing this very helpful survey. Tchaikovsky is far and away my favorite classical composer. The melodies and orchestration, as well as sheer emotion, just blow me away. Having recently become a big fan of Markevitch's 1962 version of the 6th Symphony, I just now ordered his Tchaikovsky: Complete Symphonies set based on your recommendation.

[@stuartclarke4683]

Thanks for the story about the shirt studs - it livened up a very dull Sunday morning and I almost choked on my toast!

[@TomFinot]

I love the Tchaikovsky 3rd. I think if people first heard it thinking it was another of the orchestral suites they would hear it differently. The label of symphony especially with Tchaikovsky changes what listeners expectations are. It really is as much fun as the orchestral suites.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Agreed!

[@fredrickroll06]

It should have been a suite and not a symphony. I don't know if Tchaikovsky knew of this option at the time.

[@cappycapuzi1716]

Yes. I began my life of classical listening 40+ years ago listening to Tchaikovsky (among other composers) and heard that I would get over my "calf love" of his music. Not at all! Love the colors and the emotions. I'm a "different flavors are nice" kind of guy. Great presentation!

[@AlexMadorsky]

Just now listening to Jurowski conduct Symphony No. 3 live with the London Phil? These early critics who didn’t like “The Polish” were real knuckleheads. It’s a beautiful, tuneful, approachable work.

[@loganfruchtman953]

Agreed

[@cartologist]

Where do I send the bill? Since you started this enterprise, you have cost me (in reverse) Tchaikovsky Haitink 35.98 + Mozart Mackerras 31.00 + Mahler Fischer #3 19.85 + Sibelius Blomstedt 34.96 + Manfred Symphony Jurowski 16.99 + Sibelius P. Järvi 23.99 + Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique Munch BSO 13.49 + Poulenc Gloria Ozawa 2.45 (a steal!) + Mussorgsky Reiner CSO 8.00 + Jochum ICON 38.96 + Beethoven Szell 23.98 + Mahler Das Lied von der Erde Bernstein (VPO) 1967 13.98 I'm a sucker for Mahler No. 2's, so I won't bill you for those.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I'd feel more guilty if the music-making weren't so incredible, but as it is I think this stuff is a steal at the price. I just hope you enjoy it all forever.

[@james.t.herman]

Ha! You’re not alone Mr. Lesses.

[@nicholasjschlosser1724]

Thanks for the great overview. Definitely agree about Markevitch. One thing that always strikes me about these performances is how seriously he takes Tchaikovsky's tempo and dynamic markings. For example, in the Pathetique's march he makes it clear when the dynamic is f, ff, and fff. Most conductors seem to just play it loud or soft.

[@dennislovinfosse6293]

":.. musicology has no idea what to do with a tune." I love this guy!

[@carlosshosta9040]

Rozhdestvensky´s cycle for Melodiya (Moscow Radio Symphony Orchestra) also deserves a listening. One of the best. It also includes a thrilling Manfred.

[@spqr369]

I have been at this for over 35 years now and from day one Tchaikovsky has and always will be in my top 10 list of greatest composers.

[@Vikingvideos50]

I love your point about Tchaikovsky being the elephant in the room. Never thought of that!

[@melodymaker135]

Oh my goodness dahling, he’s so COMMON. Simply EVERYONE can grasp his music (nose-in-air sniff)

[@RichardGreen422]

I love the 3rd--in part because the last four movements provide the music for the Diamonds act of Balanchine's Jewels.

[@lukesinclair4337]

One of your best videos David. Tchaik is a composer I took a much longer time to appreciate. It's been 7 or 8 months since you released this video, but I am still in awe at the world of Tchaik's music that is being opened before me. One of the key moments was starting Jurowski's Tchaik cycle for the first time, after watching this video. The opening of Symphony 1 grabbed me and I wasn't let go until the closing of the Pathetique. It took a bit for me to reach this point, and I didn't fully appreciate Markevitch or Muti. But thank you for offering so many recommendations and interpretations, because I worked my way down to your third-from-the-top recommendation and wow! I still sit here and think, surely Jurowski is the best haha! I guess that just tells me that I appreciate that excitement of live performance and modern sound. Thanks David!

[@foreverkarajanfan]

In my opinion, Pletnev's Tchaikovsky cycle on PentaTone represents a stunning achievement. Every symphony in this set is beautifully played. So sentimental, so melancholy, and so AUTHENTIC Tchaikovsky!!! The orchestral playing is truly outstanding and the recorded sound is so excellent! Indeed, it is the most exciting set among all the Tchaikovsky symphony cycles I possess. Sentimentality and melancholy are two characteristic features of Tchaikovsky's music. Pletnev really nails it and the result is most revealing and inspiring. Many conductors miss it by playing Tchaikovsky like German romantic music, except, all course, Karajan, whose style matches very well the essence of Tchaikovsky's music.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[@foreverkarajanfan]

@@DavesClassicalGuide I know many classical music lovers and critics out there who absolutely love Pletnev's set as much as I do!!! It is AUTHENTIC Tchaikovsky vs. PSEUDO Tchaikovsky!!!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

@@foreverkarajanfan That's not evidence. It's still bad, but anyone can love whatever anyone wants to love. That's fine by me.

[@stuartraybould2574]

It might make a difference on how you hear it. In stereo it's not so good for some reason but in 5.1 it all sounds amazing. So I agree with you, Pletnev is great.

[@lukesinclair4337]

David, your picks for complete cycles have been great to explore, and I agree with them on the most part (my favourites have been Markevitch, Jurowski and Haitink). I'm now exploring individual symphonies, and seeing how the different versions stand up to each other now. I've started with the Pathetique. Markevitch and Haitink absolutely hold their own as the best versions for my ears. Working my way down your list of recommended cycles, I was losing hope for another version as good as those two. That was until I reached Mehta's! Wow! His Pathetique, strongly in that traditional mould that you've mentioned, is as good as the best. At least, that's what my ears are telling me!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I am very impressed by your willingness to listen and compare! Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[@joewebb1983]

Been waiting for this one... I have a train journey today which lasts about an hour... This will be my entertainment! Thanks Dave

[@colinwrubleski7627]

*i* really really like the 3rd symphony. That, and Manfred, are my two favourites. Ha!^^

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Perhaps, but does anyone like you? Ha! Sorry, couldn't resist coming back with that one.

[@GreenTeaViewer]

The 3rd is ok occasionally...the Manfred, though?? Could it be, sir, that you are just a morally bad person?

[@thescientificmusician3531]

I've only heard the Dorati cycle, which I've enjoyed immensely. Thank you for the suggestions! As a trombonist, I performed "Hamlet." The assistants did not check to see if everybody was on stage. I was backstage expecting to Beethoven's Violin Concerto, but instead of four timpani taps, I heard the opening role of Hamlet. Oops! An assistant let me onstage late, everybody noticed and congratulated me for showing up, something embarrassing then! But I find it relatively amusing now since I've recovered...

[@michaelhartman8724]

Thanks for such a king sized presentation. It may be noted that the Ormandy box you addressed also includes what was known in the '60s as the "Tchaikovsky 7th Symphony," using the 1st movement of the 3rd piano concerto and some other stuff to produce what I've always thought was a rather enjoyable oddity.

[@billslocum9819]

That must be that "Eighth Symphony" I read of in an Amazon review, which had puzzled me. "Manfred" counts as seven, but no more than that, right?

[@maleake56]

@@billslocum9819 It's kind of an interesting story. Tchaikovsky's first intended version of the 6th symphony was in E-flat and was basically completed by him (sketched out and partially orchestrated) in 1892. He grew disenchanted with it, however, deciding it wasn't what he had in mind for his next symphony. He felt like he was writing just to write instead of composing from a place of inspiration. But he got convinced by his nephew not to discard it altogether, so he took the first movement and reworked it as the one-movement 3rd piano concerto. After Tchaikovsky's death, the pupil Taneyev did something with a couple of the remaining movements with Tchaikovsky's brother Modeste's blessing. Then in the 1950s a Russian musicologist named Bogatyrev went back to Tchaikovsky's original notes and pieced together a completed symphony out of it and finished the orchestration--movement 3, in particular needed work. So it's partly original work by Tchaikovsky and partly not, though thematically it evidently is his. The first movement, which Tchaikovsky mostly finished and orchestrated, is pretty good and sounds very Tchaikovsky. Of course, shortly after this abandoned symphony in 1893 we got the now famous and inspired 6th Symphony in B minor. So technically there were six "regular" numbered symphonies, an unnumbered program symphony in "Manfred," and this little "7th Symphony" (as it's been called) oddity which really doesn't count as a Tchaikovsky symphony, or even a 100% Tchaikovsky work, but is pretty interesting as a bit of history nonetheless.

[@billslocum9819]

@@maleake56 That is interesting! Thanks for sharing. I really thought it might just be a bit of misinformation, or someone promoting an orchestral suite.

[@dianasinclair8807]

I love the third symphony. In fact, there is practically nothing he wrote that I dislike. I am not a fan of chamber music - but I adore his.

[@marks1417]

Thanks so much for recommending Markevitch. I would never have come across this wonderful old set otherwise. All best.....

[@shawnhampton8503]

The Maazel - Vienna Romeo & Juliet just blows me away every time I listen. Bought it on a London Treasury cassette in the early 80's and was finally so thrilled to get it on CD. It is just so passionate and intense and the playing is utterly amazing.

[@adambomb30]

I swear by the Svetlanov studio cycle on Canyon/Exton! In addition to the symphonies he also recorded the Serenade for Strings, Marche Slave, 1812, Capriccio Italien, Francesca, Romeo & Juliet, Voyevoda, Fate, Hamlet, & The Tempest, also on Canyon/Exton.

[@Gabi-o5s]

I'm very glad you mentioned Muti's earlier cycle, which escaped my attention for more than 30 years! Now I've got it in 7CD Box of Brilliant reissue which also includes all the tone poems Muti recorded with Philadelphia O.

[@HassoBenSoba]

Thanks for your passion and insightful analysis; it all make sense. LR

[@littlejohnuk]

Wait until Currentzis gets his hands on them. Looking forward to that review!

[@michaelhartman8724]

I FINALLY got ahold of Svetlanov's Tchaikovsky live in Tokyo from Amazon Japan at a fairly decent price on Exton. pretty fast shipping, too, with not too outrageous shipping cost (about 15 bucks) Got second one (studio recording) more easily. highest praise for both--great sound, great playing, great excitement, GREAT!! Thanks for another super recommendation.

[@curseofmillhaven1057]

I've had for a long time the Haitink RCO in Symphonies 1 - 3 (anyone who can make that mess of a last movement of the 3rd work, has got to be doing something extraordinary!). Curiously I never checked out his 4, 5 & 6 (I have the Mravinsky stereo DG Leningrad version as my go to for them) but will now - thanks. Tchaikovsky is seriously underated, but Stravinsky venerated him as as genius (strange when you listen to Stravinsky's arrangements of Tchaikovsky's piano pieces in The Fairy's Kiss how similar it is to parts of Petrushka). Anyway musical taste is fickle, where as great composers always appreciate greatness!

[@LyleFrancisDelp]

Antal Dorati, along with the London Symphony, made perfect sense of the finale to the 3rd. A great recording on Mercury.

[@ThreadBomb]

Mravinsky's set is exciting and interesting, but I don't think it should be regarded as a standard reference - it's too crazy for that.

[@curseofmillhaven1057]

@@ThreadBomb crazy is what these works need! Although I like to think of these performances as manic rather than crazy. Very apt in fact

[@pablosolar3423]

Dave, please, do an individual survey on 5th symphony. Many of us would be so grateful.

[@joewebb1983]

Thanks for such an entertaining survey of arguably the successful symphony cycles of them all. Tchaikovsky has been a focus for me since senior school - not just his music but the biographies, the letters, everything. My first ever set was Karajan's, I didn't know any better and I really enjoyed it. Then I bought two more - again, in those days (mid-90s) I only really had the Penguin Guide and Gramophone to go by, but I'd heard of several conductors and I went for Maazel's and Haitink's, the bonus of getting Haitink's was the inclusion of Manfred and also the tone poems/overtures. So I unwittingly ended up with three very contrasting sets and I rarely went back to Karajan. I end up finding so much wrong with it (the ridiculous slow chords at the end of the first movement of the 4th - Bernstein does this too and it's not in the score! - and so much wrong with my obsession, the 6th - whether it be the out of time trombones in the recapitulation in the first movement, or the vulgar brass chords which completely drown out strings/woodwind quadruplets in the rising passage leading to the second cymbal clash (which must be short - and isn't with Karajan, not many others), and the lack of split first and second violins (which is essential in the finale's opening pages!) - again not just Karajan with this one, but that orchestra layout was so often used by the likes of Tchaikovsky and Dvorak and details are missed without it! Haitink and Maazel are solid cycles, I wouldn't be without them. Some observations on your other recommendations... Rostropovich - remember buying this and listening to it for the first time and thinking that some performances were a bit slow, a bit sluggish like you said. But totally agree re: Franscesca and R&J - superb. And his Manfred - love what he does with the trumpets (Simonov does the same, I think) at the end of the first movement (BAAA-DAAA-DAAA, bom-bom-bom, BAAA-DAAA-DAAA... instead of the more usual short sharp notes). Dorati - I used to order imports from Tower Records online because HMV in London's Oxford Street, as big as it was, just didn't have everything that I read about! Anyway, I tried getting hold of Dorati's cycle but I just couldn't. So when I went to NY in 1999 as a 16yr old one of the first things I did was head to the nearest Tower Records and hunt for them... I found them all (1-3 on a double disc and 4-6 on individual discs with fillers. For me, 1-3 are superb, well played and recorded and exciting! 4 and 5 fair less well and 6 is a bit of a mixed bag but I wouldn't be without it as it has to be the loudest trombones in the climax just before the full orchestra returns with the march in the 3rd! Jurowski - amazing how two conductors of a similar age and heritage can produce two different cycles (Petrenko being the other one). Petrenko's is fine, it's straight and at times exciting, it's well played but that's about it. Jurowski's has all of that plus bags of tension, romance, drama and subtleties. I would go so far as actually saying that bar for bar, this is probably the best cycle of the lot. Markevitch - I confess, I've only ever listened to 4-6 and Manfred, and wasn't blown away. I'll revisit these and also try out 1-3. Finally a word about a nearly complete cycle of someone we both seem to hold dear (from some of your other videos) - Silvestri. BBC Legends have released his performances with the Bournemouth SO of the 2nd and 3rd, as well as Manfred (also on Testament from Paris - as you pointed out in your Manfred video), and he famously recorded 4-6 with the Philharmonia. His recording of the 5th has to be one of the best ever. And the 6th, the finale... Wow. Please do a video of his EMI Icon box, others need to learn about him! Thanks again and sorry for the ridiculously long comment!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Thanks for your comments. I disagree about some of your characterizations of Karajan's performances, but it's clear you have listened carefully and thoughtfully, and I respect your conclusions completely.

[@joewebb1983]

@@DavesClassicalGuide thanks for reading/replying David. I really have enjoyed reading the reviews on your site over the years and am really enjoying these videos too, please keep them coming! 😊

[@jimcrawford5039]

I remember the Maazel and Markevitch cycles from the early 60s and have some of each on cd. These were excellent

[@carlconnor5173]

My favorite is the 1st. It’s certainly not his greatest. That’s the 6th. But “Winter Dreams” nails it. My bargain LP by Markevitch does me just fine. Somehow I’m not in need of recordings of all the Symphonies. I’ll just KZbin them if I need to hear them. Which is odd since I have all the ballets and concertos. And I’ve heard some real gems from his chamber music that I really should have. David, you’d laugh when I say I have too many CDs and LPs as it is.. After seeing your collections, I’d laugh too! Mine would fit in 5 or 6 cases. But I’m just a humble music lover. If I do spring for a Symphony box I’m tempted to get Haitink. I love Haitink with the Concertgebouw. But I’ll go with your #1, the Markevitch!

[@JohanHerrenberg]

"Everyone hates the Third Symphony." Nope!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Good.

[@LyleFrancisDelp]

I love, love, LOVE the 3rd. It’s the 5th that I’m not too keen on.

[@ThreadBomb]

I'd say the first three symphonies are actually the easiest to like, and the only problem with the third is that some might say it's more of a suite than a symphony, and maybe a bit long.

[@LyleFrancisDelp]

Thread Bomb Suite or symphony. Doesn’t matter. It’s delightfully colorful and tuneful music. What’s not to enjoy? As for being too long....AFAIC, the more the better.

[@JohanHerrenberg]

@@LyleFrancisDelp Same here! No problem with 4 and 6, but 5...

[@VallaMusic]

very happy u had Muti's cycle in your favs

[@melissaking6019]

The 3rd Symphony is beautiful. The adagio contains one of his most radiant melodies. We have Balanchine to thank for bringing many of Peter Ilyich's lesser-known works to brilliant life in his ballets.

[@melodymaker135]

And the jolly joyous opening movement

[@johanhendrix5907]

I did find the Muti set on Brilliant for € 15 this week. I saw that the latest EMI set was using remasters of the 1980's, so probably these are same. Benefit of the Brilliant set I got (I think they have two incarnations): one disc / symphony, so no breaks. For the numbered symphonies there are some fillers on the discs.

[@Don-md6wn]

I finally got the Markevitch 4-5-6 Phillips Duo (had previously bought the 1-2-3 duo) and they blew me away. They are some of the best orchestral recordings of anything that I've ever heard. I kept waiting for the big acceleration of tempo in the last movement of the 5th and the march in the 6th that every other performance I've heard has, but in both cases he held the tempo to the end and it is thrilling. I don't read music so I don't know if he was sticking to the composer's instructions in the score or was taking some artistic liberty, but whatever he did works. The other thing that stood out to these recordings (in remarkable sound for the early to mid 60's) was how transparent they are, sort of an anti-Karajan where the strings aren't overwhelming the woodwinds and horns when they have the main theme. I heard so many details I hadn't noticed before, but never as distractions from the long line. The performances remind me of Gunter Wand's Beethoven. Thanks so much for the recommendation.

[@steveeliscu1254]

I love, love, love the 3rd symphony! One of my favorite pieces. I will add that my history with the piece started at about 12 years old. So maybe it is more appealing to the less mature among us. :)

[@UlfilasNZ]

Thanks for mentioning Termirkanov, it seems a lot of critics frown on his cycle (apart from, interestingly, John Steane in Gramophone, who was always the black sheep of the UK critic family I think). I checked it out, and found it highly engaging.

[@ftumschk]

I bought the Markevitch set as a high-res download from Presto a couple of days ago and, boy, is it great! If ever there was a case of "where have you been all my life?", this is it :)

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

So glad you like it!

[@sjambler]

Great overview. L'chaim!

[@stpd1957]

Very interesting comments on Jansons and the Oslo Philharmonic Orchestra's recording of the Fifth as it is William Mival's first choice on the BBC Radio 3 Building a Library recommendation on the 3 April 2021.

[@kaelyndunbar7061]

You point of view on the HIP movement being anti-romantic aligns with mine. It gives me confidence in your reviews.

[@barryguerrero7652]

Yep. Markevitch is pretty hard to beat. And as you stated, Jurowski's "Manfred" is excellent, and he has THE most exciting finale to the fifth symphony I've yet to hear.

[@maudia27]

Tchaikovsky to Mahler is like a Blockbuster movie to a Bergman's movie. Both are entertainment. It is much easier to like the Tchaikovsky and a blockbuster movie. We are guided by the melodies/action. But, when you learn to like Bergman and Mahler, you return more frequently to them. There is much more to pay attention to. But, of course, there will be always time to a Tchaikovsky and a Blockbuster movie. Great video - thanks. Love your channel.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Thank you!

[@melodymaker135]

I can only buy this if it’s a really great blockbuster movie. Like not some 17th-sequel Marvel crap. I’m talking Road Warrior, Silence of the Lambs or Scarface here! 😊🎉

[@mistywalters]

I didnt know that Bernstein recorded all Tchaikovsky symphonies for Columbia. And that he did 4th twice in 1958 and 1975.

[@AdamCzarnowski]

Love the end of the Dorati Tchaikovsky One! I thought you'd end with Markevitch. Quite rightly. Fantastic, especially Manfred, which oddly, you don't rate.

[@NealSchultz]

Upon your comments of Karajan not letting the woodwinds come through on the end of the 5th - I just re-sampled Vasily Petrenko's newer 5th and he lets the woodwinds through with a more balanced approach that I thought was good.

[@RobertJonesWightpaint]

Insofar as I really have favourite composers - and I probably have, really - Tchaikovsky is one, and the other is..... Bruckner. Because the two are so different, but both move me in different ways. But I don't want the former to be eclipsed by the latter - that just seems stupid. Entirely with you on modern performances, if you can find them, as opposed to the old gents - I've not listened to all of them, but give me Karajan over almost any recent (i.e. living) conductors. Oh, and I'm grateful for your Pletnev warnings - I have one of his recordings, but it was so dull I've forgotten what it was.

[@mr-wx3lv]

I still love Tscaikovsky. His gift for melody is unrivalled. Tscaikovsky sounds better played with "German" weight IMO.

[@james.t.herman]

I was able to get a copy of the Svetlanov cycle. What a great set. Someone should give you a PhD for doing this channel Mr. Hurwitz. There’s nothing else like it.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Thank you! When you spend as many decades as I have sitting on your ass listening to stuff something good should come out of it besides, well, you know... I appreciate your getting back to me (and everyone else).

[@james.t.herman]

Absolutely, you’ve pretty well got the whole catalog in your ears. It’s really something to hear you talk about it.

[@barrygray8903]

Apologies for this late comment, but I agree that the Markevitch cycle is, on balance, the finest available. Also, the price is right for the Newton Classics incarnation. We also have and enjoy the complete cycles of Dorati, Muti (Philharmonia) and Jurowski.

[@Plantagenet1956]

Another interesting talk. If I were a conductor, I most likely perform Tchaikovsky, to the letter.

[@itzhakben-moshe828]

As you said David almost the extreme earthiness in orchestral sound of Tchaikovsky's music I mean by that no saccharine is hell of a hard work for a conductor . I agree with you the only one who achieves this is Markevich I also like his Manfred . He did also some excellent music with Lamoureux orchestra As always I like your excellent rewiews

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I don't think I ever said that Markivitch was the only one, but he's certainly among the best ones.

[@michaelhartman8724]

The Jurowski set is presently available on British Amazon for a total price of a few cents less than 50 bucks.

[@nx01craig]

This is funny. First, I'm a classical music enthusiast that wouldn't know a good performance from a bad one if it was labeled. (which is exactly why I subscribe, so I can learn.) But I do know quality audio when I hear it. And since I don't know a good performance from a bad one I'll listen to the great sounding version every time, all day. Anyway, when I was replacing my old scratchy and shitty sounding MHS vinyl box set of Tchaikovsky Symphonies (Rozhdestvensky, Moscow Radio Symphony Orchestra) I couldn't find the digital version so I went to the iTunes Store and listened to a few different cycles and picked one that sounded pretty good, and was similar to my MHS version, and found the CD box on Amazon and bought it.. Well, that turned out to be the one you said NOT to get! (The Pletnev box) So I just now went back to iTunes and listened to as many of your 18 suggestions I could find (That are still available and reasonably priced) on Amazon, and ordered the Utah Symphony box, because I liked the audio quality better than the Pletnev CD set I have. Thanks for the music lesson.

[@charleslaine]

The Markevitch set is no longer available on Amazon. Well, unless you want to pay almost $2000 for it.

[@damianjb1]

@Dave - I have a box set with Riccardo Muti and the Philadelphia Orchestra on Philips. It's got the symphonies, the ballet suites, the overtures and the piano concerto. Are they good? Or do I need to get another set.I enjoy the recordings. I find them beautifully played and very well recorded - but I might be wrong.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

If you enjoy them you can't possibly be "wrong."

[@nicolapascoli4580]

I agree on Markevitch's great cycle. and l like several cycles here presented; but not so much Abbado and Dorati

[@Bucky58]

I must be wierd. Tchaikovsky's 3rd is my favorite and like Janson's set. P. S. I will never be able to the 4th symphony again without thinking of Dave playing the cymbals.

[@gedsoft3793]

L'Chaim x 18 to you. I think you are right on, that Tchaikovsky is maybe too accessible to get the deserved respect.

[@RabidCh]

Nice to see my favorite cycle at the end!

[@lewtaratua1719]

Let me say one thing about Markevitch set. My one is the Philips-Duo, and they divided the 5th into 2 discs. I checked the one you picked up which is the newton set, the 3rd is divided into 2 discs and the 5th is the same. They remind me of the LP days. Sorry about my poor English, but I cannot help complaining.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

You English is excellent, and language is never a barrier to complaining!

[@manueljoseblancamolinos8582]

In the cycle of symphonies conducted by Markevich there is something very curious about the first movement of symphony number 5. The famous waltz theme in the first movement is played at about twice the speed of the vast majority of versions by other conductors. Curiously, Markevich tries to follow the metronomic indications indicated by the composer.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Yes, and I think it sounds wonderful. Also, it's not a waltz--it's pretty clearly duple meter.

[@NorsePJ]

Personally, I love Bernard Haitink's performances of Tchaikovsky's symphonies. Just brilliant.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

You won't believe what a coincidence this comment is.

[@NorsePJ]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Sarcasm? Sorry if I'm reading that incorrectly! And I didn't watch the whole video. I skipped through most of it. Anyway, when I saw the video recommendation I thought of Bernard Haitink straight away as I have five of Tchaikovsky's symphonies with him as the conductor. Tchaikovsky's 5th I have with Karl Böhm. Admittedly, they are the only versions I have of his symphonies so probably a bit biased. But I've enjoyed them for over forty years so didn't think I needed any other. Still don't.

[@MisterPathetique]

Hello Dave, I just wanted to have your opinion on Ashkenazy's cycle with the NHK Symphony on Exton. I really like the 4/5/6 with the Philharmonia but I'm not a big fan of the the somewhat distant and reverberant sonics. The Exton recordings seem to be more detailed, however I don't know if the performances are worth it since these recordings are very rarely discussed. They're also pretty hard to get (even sampling them is an obstacle course) on top of being quite expensive. Have you had a chance to listen to them? Thanks for your help!

[@chrismoule7242]

Maazel/Vienna for me - grew up with them and wore the records out. Listen to the end of the 4th: the last chords are strictly in tempo [as Tchaikovsky WROTE] without the sudden accelerando rush to get to the bar that mars so many other performances - IMHO...

[@_rstcm]

Please suggest some good recordings of the 1812 overture. I would really appreciate it. 😁

[@marccikes3429]

A great review. I totally agree on Markevitch who somehow slipped under the radar. Since we're in a Beethoven celebration year, what about a survey of his symphonies and quartets cycles ?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Symphonies done (run a search on the channel), piano sonatas done (ditto), quartets will be coming.

[@marccikes3429]

@@DavesClassicalGuide oops I missed that one, sorry.

[@michaelhartman8724]

Dave, maybe consider talking about Svetlanov's 2 disks of Tchaikovsky overtures/orchestral works. (Francesca, Romeo, 1812 etc.) Performances and sound are great, from same era as the symphonies.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Yes, they are.

[@eduardopoblete8839]

Eduardo Poblete de Chile, nunca olvidaré las versiones de Igor Marckevich con la Orquesta Sinfónica Lamourex, fabulosa....

[@alfredolabbe]

Hola Eduardo. Yo también soy chileno y estos videos me ayudan a pasar la pandemia.

[@carlosg.ramirezarevalo8921]

Geniales las versiones con la orquesta Lamoureux, en especial me gusta Francesca da Rimini en su interpretación. También soy chileno.

[@alfredolabbe]

@@carlosg.ramirezarevalo8921 Esa versión de Francesca fue la primera que tuve: un LP DGG, prensado chileno de los años '60! Es de una ferocidad increíble. Hay algunos videos con Markevitch en You Tube. Murió relativamente joven (estoy pensando en Blomstedt!) y trabajó en Madrid. Un cordial saludo musical Carlos

[@alfredolabbe]

@@carlosg.ramirezarevalo8921 Por supuesto no me llamo AvS. Soy Alfredo Labbé

[@carlosg.ramirezarevalo8921]

@@alfredolabbe un gusto Alfredo. Si, tienes razón. Me gusta mucho Francesca y sobre todo en esa versión. Saludos.

[@albertbauli]

Karajan 70’s DG 4 5 and 6 are the best by far (the OIBP remastering), this set has the 60s. By the way, THANK YOU! I allways thought that! Karajan was at his best with the none germanic repertoire. His Brahms is horrible, his schumann, Mendelssohn, meh, but his Shostakovich, Stravinsky (screw the critics that hate his Rite), La Mer, Sibelius! etc are amazing. Only with Wagner I would say he excelled, specially the liebestodt. His Bruckner and R. Strauss are really good but not as good as they put then to be, specially his Strauss, which I find to be allways too messy and thick, licke eating some piece of meat that you chew and chew but can’t swallow. A great surprise for me with Karajan are his Mahler, I adore his 5,6 and 9, but again, one could argue that Mahler is not exactly the traditional germanic repertoire.

[@scottweaverphotovideo]

Hi Dave! Have you reviewed best recordings of Bizet Symphony in C? My fav is Haitink with the Concertgebouw. The orchestra plays with great virtuosity, and Haitink has stylistic conception of the work. A work that bridges classicism with early romanticism (despite when it was composed). The only other recording I've heard is Bernstein and I didn't think it compared.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Yes I have.

[@scottweaverphotovideo]

@@DavesClassicalGuide I'll look it up at your channel! thanks

[@jgesselberty]

Have to disagree about Dorati. Nobody does the first three better than Dorati. He captures the youthful enthusiasm of a composer trying to make his voice heard. Not vulgar, but effervescent, capturing what a young composer was desperately trying to do.

[@mickeytheviewmoo]

Yes, I was struggling to find a British Conductor that excelled in Tchaikovsky. Any suggestions?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Stokowski.

[@mickeytheviewmoo]

To be honest Mehta/LAPO set is as good as anything else. I think his Polish symphony ( one that no ones pays any attention) my favourite out of all of them. Maazel/VPO do excel in the later symphonies. Jurowski's set i cannot get on with with. The sound is too thin and sharp for my taste.

[@michaelhughes1504]

You must be clairvoyant! I was thinking just this morning when you might get around to Tchaikovsky symphony cycles.

[@charlessarland2872]

BUT Have you ever listened to Klemperer doing 4, 5 & 6. Yes, Klemperer! It's not Tchaikovsky as he's supposed to be - he's in a different universe to, say, Svetlanov - my all time favourite - but he's extraordinary. He knows that Tchaikovsky is also all about structure. And he makes you listen to note, and he brings such intensity to it. Tchaikovsky is never the same again!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Five is great, the others...not so much. Very inconsistent.

[@neilford99]

@@DavesClassicalGuide was please you gave #5 a 10/10 score :-) I've always loved Klemps 5th. 4 and 6 fail to catch fire, let alone smoulder..

[@colinwrubleski7627]

Now seems like a propitious time for Mr. Hurwitz to do a similar review of the Tschaikowsky orchestral suites. Rather (unfairly-?) neglected compared with the symphonies... The concertmaster solos in Suites #3 and #4 in particular are "the bomb", in modern parlance.~

[@pandoraefretum]

I like your intro on directness of expression. Unfortunately I cannot imagine any of those 18 sets matching Mravinsky's 4-5-6 on DG in hi-res. You did talk about Mravinsky, but I honestly thought he was going to get the number 1 spot. The others I particularly like are Svetlanov and Karajan. Muti comes and goes with the tempo too much for me. I subscribe to the idea that the Romantics need a strict approach to tempi and the Classical composers need some freedom, since they are in origiin a little "stiff" in tempo. This possibly explains the happy balance with Markevich.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Well, if you can't imagine it then it's a failure of imagination on your part, isn't it? But seriously, Mravinsky can't get No. 1--he didn't do a complete cycle, which was the topic of this video--and in any case I'm not sure I'd call him "the best" for the last 3 alone, although he's certainly one of them.

[@pandoraefretum]

@@DavesClassicalGuide oh don't worry about my failures ; I fail every day. But seriously, why Markevich works ( and Mravinsky for that matter ) is that he balances the "romantic" content of Tchaikovsky with his classical poise. He brings out the "Mozart" in Tchaikovsky. Also, it strikes me that Markevich and Mravinsky looked somewhat alike, both a little "stern"

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

@@pandoraefretum You're right, of course!

[@judsonmusick3177]

Dave, what was it that you didn't like about Vasily Petrenko's Tchaikovsky Symphony cycle with the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I didn't say it was bad--just not outstanding in any particular way.

[@PhillipYewTree]

I have several cycles, but Rostropovic on EMI is super

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Oh, no. It's not very special at all.

[@matthewweflen]

Another very nice survey. Kudos. I have HVK (1970s analog) as my primary and Pletnev as my second "more Russian" option.

[@jedidog3615]

Hey! You mentioned on a recent video that Markevitch will be featured on a box set for Eloquence later this year, do you know if it’ll contain his Tchaikovsky recordings?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Two sets, one DG, one Philips, and they say they will be complete. We shall see.

[@musicologyman]

Great and helpful video. I always appreciate the musical sensibilities you bring to these surveys! Alas, your depiction of musicology (especially American musicology) is out of date. Forty years ago,, Germanocentrism was a problem among musicologists, but that’s not been the case since the 1990s. There’s a lot wrong with American musicology today-and I mean a lot!-but Germanocentrism isn’t one of the problems. If anything, interest in the art-music tradition has fallen to depressing lows. One is much more likely to get hired as a video games scholar than a nineteenth-century music scholar.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I've been a member of the AMS and participated in musicological conferences for about a decade now, and I stand by what I said (and what I've read), while agreeing with you that the field is much, much larger my characterization suggests. I was merely making a point. BTW, I saw a presentation given by a video game scholar at one of the AMS-NY meetings and I thought it was terrific.

[@issadad]

Since the Markevitch set on Newton is currently $903 on Amazon, am I getting the same thing with the two Philips DUO CDs, which are more like $10?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Basically.

[@jorge5150]

Thanks David. Have you listen to the Petrenko/RLPO cycle on Onyx? Is it good?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I mentioned in in the video. So-so.

[@salocindejuan9648]

Hi, David. You mentioned for Symphonies 4-5-6 Mravinsky and Askenazy. What about Gatti? How does it compare to the sets of Mravinsky and Askenazy?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I think they're terrific, if you can find them.

[@bomcabedal]

David, I've taken in the Jurowski cycle and although I generally like them, I find there's something odd going on with the sound - at one point it sounds as though the orchestra's playing in a very small room, and then suddenly the soundscape becomes a lot more spacious. This is particularly noticeable in the Third (traditionally the symphony most often hard done by). Jurowski is a bit rough in nos. 1 and 3 anyhow I feel - Muti's much, much smoother.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

OK, if that's your impression. It didn't bother me, and you always have to make allowances for live recordings, I think, even very good ones.

[@neilford99]

Presumably the cycle was recorded in the Festival Hall in London, a famously bad acoustic.

[@jordanmcintyre5148]

I'm VERY curious what you think about Teodor Currentzis' recent recording of the Pathetique with MusicAeterna. Not much of a fan of his other recordings, but I was absolutely blown away by this one! I found his control of the orchestra absolutely amazing, and it was also beautifully engineered. Have you listened to it?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Yes. Good performance in awful, cavernous sound.

[@NN-df7hl]

@@DavesClassicalGuide I actually thought it had great sound ;)

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

@@NN-df7hl That's your call.

[@francispanny5068]

Will you do an overview of Tchaikovsky's Orchestral Suites, if you haven't done one already? I have Svetlanov for those recordings and am considering Tilson Thomas and Antal Dorati.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Get Dorati. That's the review, basically!

[@francispanny5068]

@@DavesClassicalGuide With the New Philharmonia Orchestra. Sounds good. Perhaps Thomas as a supplement. Thanks

[@melissaking6019]

Maazel's Suite No. 3 with the VPO is a beauty. The first movement always makes me cry.

[@Rukasepar]

Mr. Hurwitz, Are you familiar with the Fedoseyev cycle? Melodiya/Eurodisc?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Such a mediocrity!

[@johnwright7749]

So many recordings of Tchaikovsky! I adored his symphonies when I was in high school and college, but later didn’t care if I ever heard them again. Now I like him and agree he is the greatest arch-Romantic symphonist. My favorite recordings were Ormandy’s of 5 and 6 on Columbia (now Sony). Your reference to his use of portamento in the Fifth is unforgettable. For No. 4 I was disappointed in the Ormandy and preferred Bernstein’s first recording. Since then my go-to ones are Markevitch’s 1-3, Gatti’s 4-6, and Jansons’ 4 and 5, and Ashkenazy’s 6.

[@marcmurat3776]

What about Muti with Philadelphia and philharmonia orchestra cycle?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

You were not paying attention. I know it's a long video, but still...