Requirements for C++ Successor Languages - Bret Brown - CppNow 2023

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Requirements for C++ Successor Languages - Bret Brown - CppNow 2023
Slides: github.com/boostcon
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2022 was the year of the C++ successor language! It seems everyone has been talking about what the Next Big Thing is and how to get there. However, while there has been much focus on language design and features, relatively little attention has been paid to how C and C++ codebases worldwide could practically embrace a major change in the ecosystem.
This talk will approach the broad problem of how to consider the feasibility and velocity in converting existing C++ projects to the Next Big Thing. The talk will share and discuss some of the pain points and lessons learned while making large-scale changes across a large codebase, counting both the number and variety of projects involved, including hundreds of popular open source C and C++ projects.
This talk will not pass judgment on C, C++, or any other emerging systems programming language, but it will propose things technologists should consider when thinking about how to evolve the codebases they manage. In particular, we’ll discuss common ground for C++ optimists and pessimists - why adoption of the Next Big Thing seems to require adoption of other Big Things: C++ modules and C++ packaging standards in some form.
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Bret Brown
Bret likes making authoring and maintaining C++ codebases simpler and more intuitive by treating projects more like cattle and less like pets. He is especially interested in the software development lifecycle, development automation, modern build systems, packaging, code transformation, software governance, and code analysis.
Bret worked in embedded C++ and safety critical C++ for previous employers.
Currently lead of Bloomberg's C++ Infrastructure team.
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Video Sponsors: think-cell and Bloomberg Engineering
Audience Audio Sponsors: Innoplex and Maryland Research Institute
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Videos Filmed & Edited By Bash Films: bashfilms.com/
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CppNow 2024
www.cppnow.org​
/ cppnow
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#boost #cpp #code #softwareengineering

[@fdwr]

1:06:57 Mature modules support will enable more interop between languages, but only when a BMI interface is adopted across the three major ones - clang, gcc, msvc. Currently they each have their own (fcm, gcm, ifc).

[@realtaraharris]

I watched this entire talk and while it was fine, I really just wanted to hear about cpp2.

[@isitanos]

Circle is already functional and is better, and has a drove of implemented optional features beyond what cpp2 is dreaming to do. If only it was open-source and on Windows.

[@kirillholt2329]

@@isitanos it's a closed source compiler that only runs on x64 Linux. It's a cool project, but it's not something I'd bet a large project on

[@jamesschaefer9554]

I’ll be thinking about the interesting ideas raised in this talk for a long time. Thank you.

[@henrymiller1820]

All the real problems I face at my company that advocates of newer languages often don't get

[@chrimony]

C++ has for years been talking about how to fix its problems. I gave up on the idea that it's fixable -- too much legacy baggage, new features introduce new problems and more baggage, and adoption to new features is very slow.

[@_____case]

Google prefers that Android app developers use Kotlin. Apple prefers that xOS developers use Swift. Sounds like successor languages to me.

[@starllama2149]

Are they though? They are bilt on top of c++ infrastructure that will need to be maintained.

[@Knitschi656]

I don't think that we need a new language. I think we need to find a way how C++ can be cleaned up more aggressively without breaking existing builds. I suggest the following solution: 1. Make it possible for compilation units to specify the standard version they require. 2. Make it possible to have compilation units for different standard versions in one program. -> Now we can compile old code with old standards upgrade compilation units one after the other. -> The language can make breaking changes whithout breaking builds. -> We could even get rid of the C compatibility which seems to be the root cause for many problems.

[@kirillholt2329]

terrible take, everything you wrote is either misguided or completely incorrect under all interpretations

[@Heater-v1.0.0]

Nah, C and C++ are very, very different languages. One is small and lean and mean, one man can write a compiler for it in a reasonable time. C++ has grown like topsy and accumulated many strata of warts and barnacles of complexity. Do want C still, do not want C++ anymore.

[@johnnygarcia7297]

Lmao there will never be another language better than cpp

[@chrimony]

C++ is the worst language of any that has widespread adoption.

[@dariuszantoniuk4969]

640 KB of memory is enough for everyone