Rescuing Conscience from the Moralistic Superego: Notes on the New Puritanism in Psychoanalysis

[@gloriajaramillo3112]

Thank you for your deep and integrated knowledge. Very precious.

[@doncarveth]

Thank you

[@Cocomoc.]

Thank you. It made huge difference in my own healing from sadistic super ego punches. I think the dynamics of super ego at display in youtube about narcissistic abuse, the victim becomes the agressor itself. So much hate no matter where you look at. I looked at people who suffered in unhealthy relationships, yet spreat hate towards a sick human being. Yet…. I find myself hard not to be disgusted by D.TRump

[@doncarveth]

Good, thanks

[@nicholeb5987]

This is quite mindblowing, guilt fascinates me so much like why do we have it? I see so many people including myself exchange conscience for super-ego.

[@ukasznowicki3382]

As always, it is a pleasure to listen; priceless

[@jonashjerpe7421]

This outlook on the significance of conscience is incredibly valuable and clarifying. In most meditative/contemplative spiritual traditions - e.g. zen buddhism, taoism, inquisitive hinduism, and contemplative christian traditions - the guiding principle of conscience is constantly referenced to as wisdom. I was taught about the still small voice within, to investigate it further, by my many spiritual mentors, but never ever in analysis. This passage from the Bible comes to my mind: "For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow." Ecclesiastes 1:18 In therapeutic circles a lot of emphasis is put on trust, to trust the therapeutic process. For this to be truly possible, both for the patient and the analyst, conscience needs to guide them both through thick and thin, otherwise one is merely adhering to an external process or framework (out of unconscious fear) rather than guided by the life force within. Personally, I have learnt a lot from the psychoanalytical field and insights from analysis form an integral part of my grief and wisdom. However, the tradition is quite limited in its constant emphasis on analysis. In order to truly invite conscience to guide life, we usually have to leave head space, surrender control and be allow ourselves to be consciously marinated in the life energies themselves - those that we find beneath or most primal emotions - for a very long time. An individual with a true calling can accomplish that after a prolonged heroic effort, but I seriously doubt that such a norm can be applied to a profession with a conventional education. Institutions simply do not foster that level of individuality, originality and depth. However, it is certainly possible and valuable to attend to consciousness both in recruiting and in analytical practice, as you do, but I doubt that analysts generally are prepared to grieve enough to achieve such heights of wisdom. I have done my fair share of the aforementioned effort, neither by will power nor by a sense of need/insight, but rather due to a deep calling that I humbly perceive as a request from God. If I have learnt one thing so far throughout my many excursions, it is that that kind of calling is very rare indeed. And when the calling is rare, the sacrifices are monumental. Would anyone do that for themselves? Isn't that sacrifice something we have reserved deep down in our hearts for our most significant other, i.e. God? Again I suggest that you will not find that level of faith, grief and wisdom in any church.

[@doncarveth]

Agreed. Bion spoke of the rejection of and hatred toward the Messiah in all institutions, including psychoanalysis.

[@jonashjerpe7421]

@@doncarveth Interesting. I ordered a copy of your book The still small voice. I have maintained for quite some time that the deeper we go within, the less rewarding we will find external authorities. I guess that is also one of your contributions in the book - that there is no true guru/authority but the inner guru. Be that as it may. I found your thoughts here illuminating. Thanks.

[@w.364]

Thank you. It's great to make conscience central in psychoanalysis

[@carlt570]

Very enlightening, and beautifully stated. Thank you

[@doncarveth]

Thank you

[@xansomerset1850]

truly brilliant, bravo

[@elnazyaghoobi8426]

Great as always,, Thank you for sharing with us.

[@doncarveth]

Most welcome.

[@felicianerlenburg2744]

8:30 is great. The difference between "judges" and "criminals" may sometimes just be the means of their superegos, not its ends.

[@kirstinstrand6292]

Thank you, this logic makes much sense for me. It'a a complicated reality to put all together. Too much for typical analysts, I believe.

[@easos1]

Dear Don, thank you very much for another rich contribution. Let me ask one question, when you say: „People who have become identified with the aggressor inevitably suffer from unconscious guilt. However, justified aggression may be given its roots in trauma, the victims of such trauma suffer unconscious guilt for their aggression.“, are you referring to unconscious guilt for feelings of aggression (though perhaps never expressed openly) that were triggered by the insensitive (traumatic) handling of another person in childhood, OR to guilt for aggression that is self-inflicted later in life through a superego attack?

[@doncarveth]

Both

[@easos1]

Ok, thanks. Could you refer me to some of your content where you speak more about this topic, please?

[@doncarveth]

Quite a bit in “the still small voice” but more in my forthcoming book with routledge: “guilt: a contemporary introduction“ [2023]

[@elindel65]

Would Leon on the Larry David show, Curb Your Enthusiasm, be more representative of the superego or of the conscience? Or would the use of humor be seen as a form of therapy?

[@doncarveth]

I think Leon makes a pretty good Ed ld

[@alysrowe2734]

Great talk. Just wondering: you seem to distinguish the conscience from both the ego and superego, so then where does it fit into the Freudian model of the psyche? Is it another distinct agency? Like a 'good superego' that operates reasonably rather than sadistically? My understanding was that the shift away from a superegoic morality meant the ego bears the weight of ethical judgement in the sense that e.g. Nietzsche prescribes: identification with one's own virtues and the practice of a duty, loyalty and honour based ethics that is first of all directed towards the self - that one should act well in order not to betray one's virtues and thereby oneself - and so there is an egoic and narcissistic core to this phenomenon of conscience: the conscience is a virtue attributed to the 'I' which one then ought to honour and uphold. However your remarks here seem to go against that towards something that is unclear to me, so I'm hoping you can clarify.

[@doncarveth]

Yes, I have something quite different in mind. See my paper posted at www.doncarveth.com This should clarify. Feel free to write to me if you have questions.

[@onefugue]

I wonder if the superego doesn’t have the potential to serve a positive purpose, like fire properly contained. I can see it keeping us in touch with the rules and norms of society, providing a healthy fear of crossing them. Because, it does not go well for those who ignore the norms, no matter how developed their conscience may be. I think of the 5th commandment "honor thy mother and thy father", where "thy father" is (at least partly) the rules of society which it behooves one to *honor* (not slavishly obey). I also think of Jesus saying "the law was made to serve man, not man to serve the law." So we retain the law, and try to honor it, which is a way of being that comes from conscience. But if the superego is completely extinguished, the rules and norms (where they don't roughly align with conscience) lose all vitality. They become meaningless propositions that induce no fear and which we wrecklessly and foolishly cross. This would be fine if we didn’t live in a society. Lastly, I wonder if the superego is a necessary compliment to love and conscience just as down requires up and light requires dark.

[@doncarveth]

I pretty much agree

[@mirandawrites5151]

I honestly feel we can rehabilitate those sufferring from, although they are Deserving of punishment. We will rehabilitate wasteful with this type, their own kind when allowed to undo themselves in Prison. Makes for a better grandparent.