Resident Evil 4 Remake Speedruns have a PROBLEM

[@ConanSchmonan]

Leon backing into a closed door over and over "I swear this used to work, Ashley! We can get through here! I'm not crazy!" Ends up Ashley has to save Leon. From himself.

[@OG_McLovin]

"Leon, you look like a dog trying to scratch its ass on the coffee table. Come one, let's just go do the wrecking ball part already. We'll skip the last bit with heavy grenades, I promise."

[@ceruleanvoice3538]

This comment eerily echoes my thought process while I attempted to skip chapter 14 for the first time ever, not knowing it had been patched out mere hours earlier. PS5 btw

[@sofyne2292]

No wonder I couldn't do it...I was thinking I sucked at it... I'm mad they patched it.

[@Jo_Josuke]

@@OG_McLovin "but I used the last resources on flash grenades!"

[@gamervet4760]

This little section is a trip! 😂😂😂😂

[@nkr808]

I guess we're not getting the Leon aiming at the ground sniper charm in the next remake 😂

[@cellP8]

Lmfao😂

[@dighad3824]

Good one😂

[@CoolSaver]

Yeah, i was thinking, why would they fix this glitch, if they admired and honoured Ditman glitch as a charm. But then Waifu brought up that it's not always the developers' decision to fix something, and now it makes sense. At least i hope that what's happened.

[@Kjarrigan1]

As a Developer myself, you sometimes solve an issue like for instance long loading occurring based on a section of unoptimized code. While patching this you sometimes unintentionally fix also an exploit like faster movement with an specific weapon used in a specific way you never know of. Not every bug/glitch is fixed specifically on an observed bug … what you describe is adding a bug into the feature catalog and that is sometimes really hard especially if it is an result of something completely different.

[@belchicola]

Sometimes you get spaghetti code fixes and bugs yes, but this is intentionally in the patch notes. This was almost certainly a targeted fix.

[@iitzfizz]

@@belchicola Yeah it's actually in the patch notes. Clipping into areas when using a scope.

[@ramrodbldm9876]

You ain't a devoloper of anything significant kid quit embarrassing yourself. Devolopers show "their" games on "their" yt channels" Just cause you bought a few unity assets and made a free cell phone game that has 1 download doesn't mean you're a developer lmao

[@Plague_Gurl049]

Very good point, but yeah unfortunately this was targeted.

[@tessademsky1156]

It said it was specifically in the patch notes as a glitch fix 39 seconds into the video.

[@sutoriimmortal2177]

I'm honestly more concerned that people complain about glitches in a speedrun to begin with. Speedrunning is already a niche subset of a community intended for fun and competition that's pretty tightly organized. The existence of categories in of themselves should've made that whole argument moot. The only thing off the top of my head that would make someone complain about glitches in runs would be that someone was mad that their preferred glitchless category wasn't getting much attention or something, but instead of just trying to bolster the community around their preferred category they decided to take swipes at people having a good time.

[@TheRibbonRed]

ikr? Categories like NMG exists for years, yet people are coming in bashing those that want to keep the non-disrupting glitches. I dunno what's going on in their lives, but this mocking people that liked those glitches simply ain't it.

[@idontwantahandlethough]

there are a surprising amount of dimwits (can't think of a nicer word for them) who are fundamentally misunderstanding the concept of speedrunning. They're the people that make comments like "speedrunning is so dum. Why do u think it hard to beat game in unintended way? glitches are EZ. No skill"

[@_______________2001]

Yeah there’s a lot of idiots with the whole “get skill” in a SPEEDRUNNING channel lmao

[@aStupidGecko]

@@idontwantahandlethough my favorite is people who completely ignore the fact that skipping huge sections of a game can cause the player to be in a disadvantage in later parts of the games from lacking resources or abilities they would have had and now have to Compensate for said disadvantage.

[@hartonosutrisno5452]

Let me be honest with you guys, I prefer playing the game without doing Intentional Glitch rather than accidental glitch which found by some random luck. If players keep abusing the glitches just for easy play, what is the point to play the game normally??? Its just ruin the core of game itself and I really dont like it at all. Scope glitches are the most broken thing in this game and you literally cheesing the game without even trying to beat the dungeon with different strategies, try to beat the game without doing scope glitches and you will feel hard to play because you get used to play easy while not trying to play it normally. Dont get me wrong, some glitches that kept for entertainment (single player) were fine, but doing it on online games is straight jab to the face and it just make people upset. I always playing games on glitchless run because I know that sooner or later abusing glicthes will get fixed and you get forced to play without that.

[@bradleyharris774]

So I was one of those guys who couldn't wrap their heads around why speedrunning was so popular, thinking it was this foreign/alien concept. However recently, specifically with the release of RE4 Remake, I've seen just how much time, effort and dedication goes into speedrunning and the community around it. I think people who are so hostile to speedrunning (especially those that use glitches and skips) need to understand that speedrunning doesn't invalidate normal, glitchless play. Someone's 2.5-hour speedrun of RE4R doesn't make your 10-hour glitchless run meaningless. Both forms of play are equally valid. Honestly, they should be watching Speedruns to see what skips and tricks they can incorporate into their normal play for faster/more interesting playthroughs without glitches.

[@Jeff_Guapo]

Exactly! I always try to!

[@bennytenny4662]

W comment

[@pseudonym6959]

that's so true glitches and skips weren't the only thing i took away from watching RE4R speedruns, things such as when to upgrade and what're the most optimal guns to use and what route to take have been so helpful to me.

[@Fishbro]

It'll never be mainstream to click a button and skip 99% of a games content and call it a "speedrun". Playing ocarina of time, doing the first dungeon, glitching to Ganon and ending the game is the opposite of what people consider "skilled" or "cool"

[@axllow3914]

@@Fishbro Did you even read the comment? Lmao

[@idontwantahandlethough]

Great vid as per usual. One note @2:55 - you can't use _'infinitesimal'_ like that because _infinitesimal_ only means "infinitely small", and not "infinitely large" like one might assume. Put another way: an infinitesimal quantity is one that is approaching ±1/∞, rather than one approaching ±∞. I know ∞ isn't a number, but it gets the point across. (i know it's not important, I just figured that i'd want someone to tell me if I was using a word wrong, so I figured you might want the same lol)

[@WaifuRuns]

yea i noticed that in editing but i didnt bother to fix it LOL thanks tho

[@TacticalFanBoy]

I’m honestly surprised door skip was patched. Given how Ditman remained present in every release of RE4 since the original GC release - and the devs’ own subtle nod to the glitch with the Striker charm - that another progression glitch would be tolerated in a similar fashion. I do suppose the inclusion of timed completion rewards in the remake influenced the decision to patch the glitch, but it’s still a but disappointing to see such a unique and interesting trick phased out of the latest version of the game.

[@soraneptune4178]

I have mixed feelings about the second part of your comment tbh. I partially agree but then again when I think about it more. The people who were able to do the skips and interested enough to find out how to do it, are probably able enough gamers to beat it anyways. The people struggling to beat it probably just bought an exclusive ugprade ticket when those dropped lol. I personally did some runs myself, managed a 3 and a half hour run on ng pro. Which isn't exactly a good run by any means, but like I ain't a speedrunner, I just did s+ with like 2 hours to spare "first try". Even without the door skips ( I didn't even do first garrador skip in the first place cause tbh I still can't do it lol) I wouldn't have struggled at all. And I suspect is a similar story for many other players. All they've done by patching door skip is add roughly 20-30 minutes and maybe some money routing differences because you have to fight mendez now. That still puts even like pretty average gamers like me easily under the 5 and a half hour threshold. The in game thresholds for s+ was never about being good anyways, it was just telling you to not loot goblin and you will easily do a sub 5 and a half.

[@ZombieSlayer-dj3wb]

Wasnt it cause of people not getting luis key ?

[@dillonqaphsiel7977]

Because Ditman glitch was discovered two years after the PS2 version

[@brendangibson8200]

​@@dillonqaphsiel7977 but they very easily could have patched it out of the Steam version and every other console it was ported to

[@upd0g1]

Timed completion rewards PLUS the purchasable tickets that are absolutely factored into the difficulty.

[@Jeffthestrider]

Another possible reason why a glitch gets patched is because it may be unintentional. It's the same reason why new bugs can get introduced in a patch as well. And developers are probably not ensuring glitches remain in place during testing. Modifying code can cause all sorts of unexpected behavior, especially in large codebases. I'm not saying that happened here or anything, just giving another possible reason some glitches might disappear, even from developers that support the speedrunning community.

[@XJoeyJordison666X]

They purposed fixed the door skip glitch they even said it in their release blog

[@punusername3445]

@@XJoeyJordison666X yeah but it was probably a major fix, not a "let's put a invisible wall here so they don't do it" To see a bad example of sequence break glitch fixes, go to FNAF Security Breach, it literally is all they do, put invisible walls around. The scop glitch it's a glitch that works all around, speedrunners use it on specific locations, they fixed the entirety of it, not just the part speedrunners use

[@agylao6894]

I agree with you. It's so crazy that there are so many people that do not know there is a difference between a bug and a glitch and how they should be defined or handled or what is intended or not intended. There' so much that goes on behind the scenes testing and making the game but people think it's a piece of cake.

[@agylao6894]

@@punusername3445 Exactly

[@fleckmylife]

Capcom: Includes a Striker charm in RE4make as a loving homage to a major speedrun glitch in RE4 Also Capcom: Patches out major speedrunning glitches in RE4make

[@valiensfortus6400]

Honestly, Striker charm was probably a work done by a passionate employee who loves their job, while patching everything into ground was a decision made by some boss man at Capcom. I highly doubt that Capcom at any executive level know anyhitng about original barring the most basic thing.

[@RealCGH]

The door glitch felt like something they prob were planning to patch for a while, obviously they couldn't do that in a GameCube game

[@Alec_cz]

1 is intended other is not simple logic

[@fleckmylife]

@@RealCGH Capcom has ported RE4 to like 10 different platforms, and has never once patched out the Ditman glitch despite the opportunity.

[@camharkness]

​@@fleckmylife that's actually because, let's be real, Capcom doesn't care when they port re4 to other systems.

[@Thatitchyguy]

I think the main problem is that these were so easy to pull off to blitz through challenges. Makes sense that they'd get rid of them. That said I think its somewhat hypocritical to patch for that reason whilst selling upgrade tickets.

[@millmr20]

The upgrade tickets don't speed anything up at all.

[@angelbless45]

@@millmr20 Ohh they certainly do.

[@Mir_Teiwaz]

@@jonhoepner3021 But it does speed up the process of getting the tickets, since you can normally only get 2 per run. Allowing people to buy exclusive tickets lets them cut down on how many times they have to play through the game to power everything up.

[@LiterallyVera]

Upgrade tickets aren't allowed in speedruns

[@jonhoepner3021]

@@Mir_Teiwaz Yeah I realized what was meant by "buying" upgrade tickets and retracted my previous comment. I agree with that, buying the upgrade ticket to use ASAP at the start of a professional run will absolutely remove the challenge of the game in certain parts, especially during Village.

[@joshpace6943]

as someone who doesn't speedrun I have no fucking idea whats going on most of the time, but for whatever reason I can't stop watching runs they just look so fun. Idk, maybe I just love watching people break things kekw

[@albertozalon8477]

For real when ever i dont jnoe skip glitchs its so funny to watch people break the game to high hell

[@miked2591]

As someone who skateboards and a lifetime RE fan, the pool analogy couldn't have been better. Keep up the good content my friend.

[@yairgomez9090]

A common complain in modern gaming is games released on an incomplete ir unplayable state, by wanting debelopers to not fix their games I think is to justify a practice that hurts the entire gaming community.

[@XxxTheFireEmblemxxX]

To go back to the pool analogy: You can use the pool to skateboard all you want, but you don't get to complain when the owner comes by and fills it with water again.

[@WaifuRuns]

TRUE!

[@Kevlanco]

It’s not like you’re borrowing the pool (game) when you dropped $70 to own it though

True, but honestly it's kinda fucked up that they just filled the pool without fixing any of the holes and cracks in it too. To bring it back to the game, I'm no speedrunner but I wouldn't use the door skip in the island if Ashley's AI wasn't so inconsistent.

[@XxxTheFireEmblemxxX]

@@Kevlanco Legally, yes, you kind of are. Ownership of digital video games is a gray area.

[@AngelicRequiemX]

@@Kevlanco ^This. You really don't "own" the game even if you spent $70 on it. You're just buying the license to play the game, as the publisher sees it.

[@spookyhoney5743]

As a Developer, a lot of the reasons we patch out certain bugs is because yeah it is no thow you intend to play the game and for some people that can immersion breaking which is one of our main focal points when it comes to a game design. Also certain bugs we patch out, not for "speedrunning reasons" but for balance reasons. Updates to a game mainly focus on the balance between the players strengths and weakness, and when a perfect balanced is achieve all players can find enjoyment in the game with little to complain about. When this balanced get's skewed, more people get upset than people get happy from this balance skew. So I am pretty sure the Dev's didn't hate the speedrunning community, its probably they patched those bugs to appeal their market audience and main community moreso than the niche category of players that liked those bugs.

[@tyhill111]

Great video homie. You stayed very objective about it and showed both perspectives fairly.

[@alfiebarboza]

Once thing I really hate about speedrunners is when they mess up a run, they say "Shit game" or "This game is trash". Like, you are trying intentionally to break it and then you blame the game for not breaking how you want precisely. And lots of SR have a really entitled attitude like they're doing something amazing and anyone who asks or questions it they get defensive and sarcastic. That's another factor on why the SR community has a bad rep.

[@JustSendMeLocationPlease]

I’ll say the one exception with this game or at least the past couple RE remakes are getting stun locked into oblivion and dying very fast with nothing you can do to defend yourself after you take that first hit

[@groovyhoovy2606]

You gotta understand how much time they’re putting into the game lol after streaming runs for 11 hours one mistake makes them go off of course but with 1k hours into the game they don’t actually believe it’s bad it’s just pissing them off in that moment

[@ACTNRPLY]

Machine Girl started playing in the middle of the video and I kept checking my pocket thinking my spotify had started playing lmao

[@roddy_doddy]

That pool analogy is top tier ngl

[@CheesesteakImeancake]

Lords of Dogtown has been my favorite movie for as long as I can remember, loved the analogy as well

[@kaiderhai86]

I've honestly never seen such a "round" pool. Is this only a american thing? European pools are all some sort of square shaped. I wouldn't skate in them, thats for sure😅

[@somefrog6089]

No. In order for the analogy to work the skateboarder would have to break the laws of physics, which is what his performance relies on. Since he cannot do that and has to overcome gravity and whatnot by means of pure skill, the analogy does not work.

[@brandonsvenson5323]

@@kaiderhai86 most pools are square circle or rectangle in america just not all

[@Kenlac92]

While skaters do use essentially empty pools for skateboarding, a pool filled with water clearly to swim in, couldnt be skated in. Because, while you could purchase your own pool and decide to skate in it, people who make pools arent doing so in consideration of skateboarders. They are doing it in mind of swimmers. Game devs arent making games for speedrunners.

[@horizonbumpy2828]

my opinion is that a speedrun is ''a playthrough that means to finish the game as fast as possible within the game's constraints''. imo this also means any updates that fix bugs and glitches (tho i do not think using glitches or bugs is a problem.) you work with the glitches you get, not the glitches you want.

[@edgefayth]

You are right at 20:20 when you say there are two types of bugs in a game. Dev teams usually don't fix the second category since it doesn't arm anyone, so no need so spend money fixing them. The problem is that the door skip glitch belongs to the first category, since you can softlock if you use it to reach the clocktower on chapter 10. Pretty sure Capcom got feedbacks about this point, the reason why they fixed it.

[@CoolSaver]

I think it also have much to do with time restricted challenges and the popularity of this glitch. I mean, why bother having these challenges if you're intentionally letting such easy-to-do and well known skips exist. Maybe they shouldn't have include speedruns as in-game challenges in the first place, because speedruns will always be intertwined with the glitches, and by doing so they just, one, gave themselves much more work, because now they need to fix every glitch that somehow fastens your playthrough in order to maintain challenge fair, and two, fixing these glitches will turn away from you your most loyal community - speedrunners.

[@reagansido5823]

"You shouldn't be using glitches to speedrun it's bullshit!1!!1!!1!" Glitchless categories:

[@gamevidsnstuff5805]

I think Capcom thought the scope glitch was just too game breaking to keep in there. You can skip through so many doors and sections using that glitch and it's not that difficult to learn. They probably thought that the game needed that fixed to be the perfect product they wanted.

[@TheSupersabby]

my only problem is the speedruns is the any% kinda overshadows and drowns out the glitchless runs because of how social media works when you see WR at an 1:50 or something then you try to you watch a glitchless run it takes away something because the perception is its not the fastest way to beat it

[@mika.notarnicola]

Thank you for having a really level headed mindset about this topic, kind of rare nowadays. I feel like there's way too many super vocal speedrunners that think their wants and needs are the most important thing and that they own the game more than the developers do.

[@WaifuRuns]

INCLUDING ME! so i tried to be more reasonable in this one because i felt it was important

[@Salamandaa]

It happens with a lot of niche communities in gaming, like eSports players. Sometimes that can improve the game overall, but a lot of times catering specifically to the people at the highest level of play can make the game less fun for regular people. It's an easy trap to fall into though because those small groups can be so vocal, like you said.

[@AydarBMSTU]

Next time talk about the opposite vocal side, since they are just as obnoxious. Oh, or are they not a problem for you? Maybe you are one of them, that's why

[@mika.notarnicola]

@@AydarBMSTU I don’t see the connection. What about my argument is obnoxious? Is it that I’m saying that the people who make a thing should have more say over it than the people that use it?

[@thomasjefferson233]

Your skate clips are actually dope af bro.

[@WaifuRuns]

Thanks Thomas I loved you on the 20$ bill

[@josetomascamposrobledano4618]

I dunno man. It’s a weird community placebo I think. Remake 2 had a crazy speedrun community that on the surface level was people doing “glitchless”. But the game itself was unbalanced for giving knife more damage thanks to FPS. So while most runs with millions of views were done on 60 capped. The millions of clueless viewers thought it was a regular run that could be replicated in console. Hence the 1000’s upon thousands of randoms asking “why didn’t my Birkin 1 die so fast?”. Now as for Remake 4, I bet that most people don’t watch the entire speedrun. So while they skip to their favorite part of the game, they don’t see the runner skip the Ashley Boulder section or Big Cheese skip. But rather only clicked on the video to see Verdugo eat a rocket launcher. At the end of the day it’s up to the people AND DEVELOPERS. People will just downpatch and continue the glitches. A dev will patch so the game isn’t considered “buggy trash” as some consumers claim.

[@josetomascamposrobledano4618]

Oh, and back to “the people”. In Remake 2 everyone wanted to see a “regular run” mostly so everyone ran the usually path. While the all glitches of getting bitten by the stair zombie on RPD and then sewers stairs would lead to a sub 20 minute run… but the people, to their knowledge or lack there of, didn’t watch these glitch heavy runs, with the trick being viewed mostly on joke videos instead of videos explaining how this can help on a speedrun optimal level.

[@Kacpa2]

This is more of the case why glitch runs shouldnt be the default way ie. "any%". Doing glitchless runs and glitched runs are two separate things and glitch speed running should be this hyperspecific way to play the game. No major glitches or ideally glitchless should be the default ruleset. I understand why glitchruns are interesting and impressive to menage, but they shouldnt be the default ie. Any% being the main category. I dont like when developers "over fix" things, but then it's more of a case for leaving the access to older patches like we could for many older games on PC in 2000s. Having same system like Steam's Beta branch or depot could be used to leave old glitchy version easily accessible for people to try, while retail versions is on latest patch. No accessibility issue this way.

[@joseknight1832]

While I love speedrunning and all the insane glitches and strategies used in them, I love AGDQ and make time off work to watch it when it comes, you can't really be mad at a developer fixing their game. As you said yourself, speedruns are a niche use of the game. To use your same analogy, it is cool to see a skater doing tricks in an empty pool... but you can't be mad when someone fills the pool with water.

[@BlackButler32]

Ok, but in this analogy the empty pool is way out of the way. Skaters discovered this way out of the way empty pool and started using, then someone sees a video of the skaters in the empty pool and for some reason go out of their way to fill this pool. In this analogy filling the pool does nothing but hurt the skaters, as normal people who probably don't even know about the pool aren't going to go out of their way to start going to the pool

[@stevenmike1878]

no lie kinda glad they patched em, gives speed runners a higher skill ceiling. if the tricks and skips are too easy then the game reaches perfect time efficiency so much faster, rather then having many many decades of world records being traded between runners and making extra hype runs. mix in some rng and you can have a speed running community dedicated to a game for decades. RE games are one of the few games where speedrunning is very entertaining for everyone to watch, because it's still very close to the same path that every normal players has to go thru. there are very few section skips. there are speed bugs, which are entertaining, but not many full on section skips, re4 original world record is still very entertaining to watch and still close to the original intended game route. re3 original is still being ran today because no one has gotten a theoretical perfect run because of rng, and having no section skips the way i see it certain games all have a different speedrun niche. re games dont have section skips, same with goldeneye 007 you can't clip thru walls and go out of bounds, thats why it is so beloved by its community as everyone is forced to run the gauntlet, if you could clip thru walls like metroid prime or granny, it would completely ruin that speedrun, it would be much faster but it would kill the whole thrill of running thru that game.

[@Jenohart]

I've seen a lot of discussion about this and I don't think anyone ever really considers it from a programmer's perspective. A glitch like this shouldn't be considered a "feature", and the decision of whether to patch it or not isn't as simple as "policing how people play the game". From a programmer's perspective, unintended behavior in code can be dangerous. Speedrunners may have found the glitch and use it to skip doors, but maybe what they didn't find is that in other situations (maybe in situations no player has ever seen i.e. upcoming DLC) it could cause the game to crash or a save file to get corrupt. Maybe if they don't patch it now, then in a future DLC it does become a problem and it ends up being even more difficult to fix because of the code they built on top of it. Why take that risk at all? From that perspective, the enjoyment of the game by the "regular" playerbase takes priority and a more stable game is a better product. If it turns out the glitch is truly an enjoyable feature, it would still be better to patch out the unintended behavior and formally introduce intentional code to replicate the glitch in a way that is controlled and accounted for. I understand and respect the Speedrunning community. I've used glitches for fun and been sad when they get patched out. But seeing some people act like the developer patching a glitch is "bad" or them trying to "police fun" is completely ridiculous. We live in an era where AAA games frequently release in broken and buggy states, we should be applauding developers that are actually proactive with fixing bugs.

[@nemesisjrrrn]

Since the door glitch was leon having half his body on the other side of the door, i think it was patch as a secundary effect to maybe the devs trying to fix collitions to ensure the character wont fall or something like that and resulted in the door glitch being patched.

[@sunderwire]

They put it in the patch notes though, it was intentional

[@nemesisjrrrn]

@@sunderwire Yeah it es totally possible, it could also be that once they found out that the glitch was fixed as a result of another bugfix, they listed it on the patch notes, in any case, whats done is done. At least on pc they can continue to do it.

[@michaelmooneyham9478]

@@sunderwire good, it’s weird that people wanna cheat to play the game

[@quenonisbsphennin4286]

@@michaelmooneyham9478 brother you do know cheat codes have been a thing since forever ago? you can buy an INFINITE rocket launcher in game. you can also get a infinite knife from a challenge. both of these completely trivialize most of the game. maybe these glitches are things unintended to trivialize the game but it doesn't change that both of these things are something you can choose not to use. idiot

[@brendangibson8200]

​@@michaelmooneyham9478 it's no more of a cheat than buying the exclusive upgrade tickets

[@heavymetalmixer91]

There's a huge example of something that was "used incorrectly" that evolved into something we all love: Rock. You see, in the 1950s when guyitar amps were created the creators knew about distortion but they saw it as a problem, even to this day from a certain poiont distortion IS a problem, but musicians started using the distortion coming from the amp in a certain amp to make the guitars fuller, more agressive and to even create a new kind of sound that would give birth to a whole new genre of music. Were the musicians doing something "wrong"? Yeah. Were they going against the creators and corpos whises? Of course. But in doing so they open the gates for a new world of possibilities that didn't really hurt anyone, and actually made the creators and corpos get way more money from then on that it the musicians simply used the amps "correctly".

[@mattprueter9231]

homie used the pool analogy to flex his sick moves on us

[@cerealbloodx]

I remember the speedrun showcase of SoTN. It was romscout showing to Koji Igarashi (then subdirector and programmer of SoTN) a ton of glitches and exploits, Igarashi laughs and say: "well if you have played this 5000 hours do as you please" The people who invest more hours that anyone playing any game are speed-runners, and really keep the interest alive in the community, every so often you can come to back mario kart 64 and found some new discoveries after more than 20 years... Also, the analogy with the athletes and the track [at: 7:07] is a bad one, because everyone can skip the track, but many of the glitches require more dexterity that the game itself thanks for video waifu

[@isa300100]

I just like glitchless runs a lot more, I can watch a glitched speedrun fine and all but when speedruners start to do IA and time manipulations, warps from one room to another or when they don't even play the game and just do things that break the game too warp to the end credits is when I just can't stand speedruns, those are the times where I'm like, "and how's this the game I like anymore?"

[@k1ler4m]

The videos point --> Your head

[@GiganticPawUnit]

The thing about your skating in an empty pool metaphor is it doesn't hold up when we talk about patching glitches, and a more suitable metaphor is pretty illuminating. It's more like skating in an unfinished construction site, and being disappointed that there's less stuff to grind on when they take away some leftover scaffolding.

[@luiswalla9778]

The guy use footage of him skating to use it like an analogy...and he just said it, "to use an analogy I only get", used anyway in a video... it just flexing to me tbh, he saw the opportunity and he took it.... Hahahaha awesome waifu I love it!!

[@tehSunBro]

Theree is never a reason to not fix a glitch. Even if abusing it is beneficial to a niche minority of players, fixing it is beneficial for everyone. The barrier of entry is entirely comunity made and its sort of a hypocrisy that players cling to a broken state, instead of embracing the challenge of figuring out new strategies instead. You know the whole reason most people get into speedrunning, opening up a whole new world of playing your favorite game and discovering things you never done before. Cheating is never impressive.

[@painhurtssometimes2185]

Bro thank you for this! I’ve never been a speed runner but I actually loved using these glitches. The chapter 14 one was so cathartic to finally get on console. I’m usually a hardcore completionist every playthrough but something about RE4 remake really made me understand why people Love glitches and mechanics like this.

[@Chizuru94]

Same :D Planning to get into speedrunning in general since a year or two also, but using these really made it so fun I'll tackle speedrunning Haunting Ground soon (ik this sounds random, but I planned to do that since a while already)

[@MarcoA3774]

The pool analogy is awesome haha. Also great variety of perspectives. Nice video.

[@thestand5217]

I'm sure if we could look at a pre-release version of the game there would be plenty of glitches and bugs allowing you to skip all sorts of content (obviously) The fact that this clipping bug made it to release is arbitrary. Just because it survived this long isn't a valid reason to never address it. It's not like they're patching out a specific "skip" but rather the issue that makes it possible; this same issue (Leon's hitbox displacing when scoping) can soft lock you out of progressing through the game if you use it at the wrong point. Even when not game breaking the glitch leads into situations that are untested, and that they're not going to want to support. Really not surprising they patched it!

[@cerflap]

Im not surprised this was patched at all. It made it possible to skip entire portions of the game where skill would be inbolved. I do understand speedrunning includes glitches but i think the point of removing this glitch was to make the run more entertaining and less cheesey.

[@geofff.3343]

To continue your analogy: The skateboarder can't be mad when the guy who owns the pool doesn't want him to do that anymore.

[@ogSweetD]

Imagine being mad at developers for fixing the game

[@skeltaldelegate5408]

Except when you pay for the pool

[@johnnykeintindigoyenlopez9639]

@@skeltaldelegate5408 -100iq

[@niggacockball7995]

@@skeltaldelegate5408 you arent really paying for the pool but you paying so you can enter the pool, empty or not

[@HarryBondInc]

I think it will be interesting to see who can get the best time without using any skips or glitches.

[@WilsonMackle101]

That's a popular category in speedrunnung :)

[@curto201]

@@WilsonMackle101 Should be the only category

[@SuperNeos2]

@@curto201 Exactly. It’s called speedrunning not skiprunning. Skipping parts of the game doesn’t show your skill, it’s a cheat to avoid parts of the game. By that logic, why can’t I just load a save before the credits and just submit it as a WR run? I sped through the game by loading it up before the end, doesn’t get faster than that. Speedrunners seem to forget games aren’t made for them to beat in less than an hour. If Capcom wants to get rid of glitches to make the game better in their eyes, then they have every right to do that.

[@curto201]

@@SuperNeos2 to be fair alot of the glitches are very hard to do. But im with you, I think its super cringe glitching a game and skipping parts. Like the one skip makes you skip an ENTIRE chapter lmfao. So stupid

[@larkan511]

Let's be honest, "casual" players were only using these glitches because they didn't want to take the time to actually figure out how to get a new game Pro S+ rank. Now they're in shambles because they need to apply skill. Speedrunners don't really have anything to worry about since they can just downpatch. Either way I'm laughing watching all the tears from everyone complaining that Capcom gave you all a middle finger 😂

[@danriley282]

I'm not a speed runner yet I've actively been trying to keep up with all the latest speed running techniques, so I routinely practice them and use them in my own casual playthroughs. I'm pretty bummed. I'll be down patching, too.

[@patrickthies8683]

the smith, nosegrind grab out line was dope af

[@AlpacaEmperor]

Personally I think this change kind of sucks because I thought it was charming for those glitches to be in the game, and you could choose to not do it. I also see where Capcom is coming from though, they implemented multiple legit skips like a way to make the wrecking ball part faster (presumably for speed runners) and all of it gets skipped with the door clip glitch

[@iitzfizz]

yeah definitely, people were loving the game anyway then these skips added to it, it didnt take anything away. now it feels like a feature has been removed.

[@TheAluvisify]

Exactly. The game was already curated for speedrunning without the glitches.

[@Shmover34]

An easy 'glitch' to skip entire sections and thus making challenges that the developers intended (rankings) easier destroys the balance of those challenges for casuals I think. It becomes the new default as everyone takes the path of least resistance and in the process optimises the fun out of their game.

[@WaifuRuns]

this is actually a pretty solid point

[@ALTEMERI]

Don't know how relevant this is but another point in favor of this is if a game has leaderboard. Speedrunners will most certainly have an unfair advantage as it essentially makes it impossible to achieve high positions by playing normally, which either forces people to learn the glitches in order to compete or not bother because what's the point? Granted, not everyone cares about leaderboards but for those who do, I can imagine how frustrating it must be.

[@waifurunslive]

@@ALTEMERI well these are hacked day one to get :00:00 completion times for basically every game so its not like they matter much

[@rh7474]

Trying to protect leaderboards is one thing but it has nothing to do with casual players. By definition casual players are probably not even trying to rank on the leaderboard. edit: Also the leaderboards ALWAYS get hacked so you end up having to rely on third party websites for accurate rankings anyway.

[@duncanhenderson7094]

It doesn’t help that Speedrunners post videos about “breaking” the game or describe the game as “broken”. While the community uses these words in a positive light, game producers may potentially misinterpret this to mean something negative, and become worried…

[@genospec3290]

7:00 there is also glitchless speedrun category so just imagine it as a different race for each one :/

[@axllow3914]

That commenter's argument was a complete fallacy anyway, comparing a niche sub section of video games, to an actual physical race. The reason an athlete doesn't cut through the circuit is not because that would make them a fake athlete, but because it's against the rules of the race. Different speedruns have different rules, even if they're of the same game.

[@KDZen]

I won't lie, the skateboarding in a swimming pool analogy was genius. Also nice moves!!

[@ThatSillyToast]

I remember when I 1st heard about speed running I didn't even know what it was exactly then I started seeing times on some games and thought to myself there's no way they beat it that fast after that I just started getting into watching speed runners and have been enjoying it since then

[@beachbrettf]

"gah, dude. Us speedrunners are so misunderstood, brah"

[@dubwub4667]

Not enough people know about speedrunning categories as well

[@FusashiYuraka]

Honestly, I'm amazed at the hate towards glitches in speed running and the hate towards speed running in general. I've always viewed the people spouting out such opinions as the same people who shit on table top games. People who will never try to understand because they don't want to understand, they just want to spit on something that others enjoy. I've never had an issue with understanding the concept of speed running purely to having grown up in the 90s and plenty of games had glitches, we all just would consider them features or quirks that made the game what it was. I've personally classified speed running as the retro way of playing a game for myself. Back in the day when ya beat a game, to get your money's worth ya had to find new ways to extend playtime and using all your knowledge of the game to clear it faster and faster was one of the simplest ways to do it. My 'shitty' opinion is that with the advent of patching of games at any time, it's kinda made the view of glitches be shown in a negative light rather then a positive or problem solving light. Thus propagating in the generations that are living with essentially the devs technically doing the problem solving for them in the form of patches.

[@stef-ruvx]

Holy hell the most impressive thing in this entire video was you absolutely shredding that pool!!

[@JuliusCaesar103]

That pool analogy was as awesome as your vids with a skateboard!

[@fedequim2]

Can't we just have different categories for different patch versions? That way everyone can play or watch whatever they want. I like revisiting the fastest possible way to beat a game now and then but also love watching how the speedrunners adapt to game patches and have to rethink their strategies.

[@TheRibbonRed]

FromSoftware kinda had this in some of their Armored Core games through "Regulation" versions. They're not "different patch categories", but you can choose which major patch or lack thereof to play the game with.

[@soraneptune4178]

there typically will be yes. But you can't really control what's the most popular. By creating different versions you simply divide the community up. That's really the core of the issue here. Ds3 is probably the most prominent example.

[@TheRibbonRed]

@@soraneptune4178 it's either that or forcing similarity & have the hate directed to the devs themselves. I'd take the "divide" anytime. It's not much of a divide either, not even like multiplayers that bought certain DLCs vs those that don't.

[@axllow3914]

@@soraneptune4178 How is diving the community up an issue? Having different categories so people can watch the types of runs they enjoy the most makes complete sense.

[@soraneptune4178]

@@axllow3914 is bad for new members. Imagine trying to look up "re4 remake speedrun" then seeing about 27 categories all with different version numbers. Just makes the prospect of speedrunning less appealing. That's always the issue, nobody who's already running or in the know already care at all, it just hurts potentially new runners and viewers.

[@M0HAK0]

To anyone who complains about speedruns; If you dont like or do speedruns thats fine. Just know that as much as some people dont like speedruns, others do not enjoy casual playthrough videos as much either. Nobody is forcing you to speedrun any game and the community is not even a fraction of any games overall community. There is no need to constantly jump into speedrun topics and constantly bash the community for existing. This is the same mentality people have against professional players of fighting games and fps pros. I personally am not a fan of COD but you will never catch me in COD spaces bashing people who enjoy the series.

[@denisruskin348]

Ahahahah the Crowbcat reference.

[@shannoncnnr]

90% to 100% speedruns that dont include glitches are infinitely more impressive than someone using glitches, a 2hr no glitches speedrun is more impressive than someone exploiting some unintended thing to get that same time with glitches, ive watched everyones runs since the start of the remake coming out, i also wanted to speedrun the game but refused to even try to learn glitches, besides the grenade ones in chap 7 or the grenade at the crane section, my best time was 3hrs no glitches with about 80% done, i feel that is more impressive than speedrunners who skip boss fights or sections entirely

[@p0laris74yt8]

Very good points about the glitches, and I’m wondering if it wasn’t a dev team member that pushed the idea to patch them out, but a higher up seeing them and going “Hey, that’s not right,” and telling them to fix it ala Fry from Futurama. It might well be a actual dev, but it feels weird with a game that obviously has a lot of love put into it by the team making it to the point where they put in a STRIKER CHARM in reference to the Ditman glitch (which I didn’t know about this charm TILL looking in the comments of this vid) to suddenly get rid of all the more unique ways to play the game. I’m just guessing it’s someone in management cause since REmake 4 sold so freaking well, they probably got a closer eye on it to keep it up to their expectations, but I’m just assuming and assuming makes a ass out of mostly me. Still tho, great video explaining everything and giving valid and solid criticism toward this without coming off as upset or angry at the team. Great job sir.

[@TheRibbonRed]

Your first point has some backing to it, and that is the MTX Capcom is selling. TL;DR Capcom sells MTX for the game MTX lessen the grind for IRL money Glitches lessen the grind for free Capcom wants people to buy the MTX Simple as.

[@p0laris74yt8]

25:26-26:12 I really should write a comment AFTER watching a video cause you basically brought it up. Lol.

[@DUBaholic406]

You more than most have earned your view point on the topic but I think you are taking it too personally. In the scheme of things speedrunning is a small community. Gaming studios want to release a polished game that delivers the experience they intended. Look at Elden Ring. How many patches has that recieved because people keep finding cheese for their boss fights and not playing as intended. My first play through I ran into a bunch of boss fights I looked up videos to cheese and they were patched hence making me play the game like I was supposed to and earn that kill. I get both sides of the argument.

[@willhorton7624]

such great content mate you're a legend

[@KittStargazer]

Generally I view Capcom wanting to remove the skips here to be the same as Souls Dev's not wanting to implement an Easy Mode into their games. They have a vision of how the game is meant to be played. While the choice might be liked by people in the community to have it removed, they are ultimately the one that should get the final say in what is or isn't suppose to exist, being that they were the people who took the time to make the game. If the community wants to see it return, it's on them to convince the dev's that it was a good thing for the game and that they should patch it back in. But remember though, even with strong arguments, they can still ultimately say "no", and it's perfectly fine for them to do so.

[@jdm3075]

I think the situations between L4D2 and RE4 Remake are totally different. I think there is a MASSIVE difference between releasing a patch that breaks speedruns a decade after release, and Capcom releasing a patch WEEKS after a game's release to remove some bugs & polish mechanics so the game can be played as intended. My point is, when you are constantly downpatching BRAND NEW games to get the best time, you're splitting up the community in a really weird, stilted way right at the game's birth and making it way more difficult than it needs to be to speedrun in the future. Is it really worth kneecapping the viability of speedrunning a game for PC players who don't wanna downpatch + console players just because a game launched with critical glitches that can exploited for time? I don't know... seems like a net negative overall to exclude huge portions of the community like that so early into a game's lifecycle.

[@crimson-foxtwitch2581]

L4D2 is also basically a PC-exclusive game at this point so yeah that also contributes to the disparity.

[@HanniSeidenba0525]

Oh boy, Capcom did patch a lot of thing. The pain in my ass is the Pigman at begin of island. Instead of walk toward us in order to bait the sentry, now push kick and stun lock us to death. Also the sentry now can track movement, I tried with my best luck I can lure the Pigman, the moment he started to walk into the sentry laser, I run to his left as always, the sentry shot him also tracked me and I died.

[@roddy_doddy]

I think that the glitches don't ruin the gameplay to the average player so why patch them out? If a player randomly glitched through a wall while passing by it I understand patching it out. But if a player chooses to partake in it, I consider it a feature.

[@TheRibbonRed]

Most plausible reason I can see is to steer casual players into buying their MTX like Upgrade Tickets. You can get through the game just fine without it, but if you want to fully upgrade your weapons then you kinda have to repeatedly slog through at least multiple runs of the game to get enough Pesetas....or, you can buy Capcom's MTX. The other plausible reason is Capcom somehow not liking any immersion-breaking bug in their games, but that can't really be proven without dev statements.

[@direct0ry]

it actually does, it's rare but i have fallen out of the map during regular gameplay. i fell under the ballroom running from the novistadors and had to reload my save during my s+ run. i only have 40~ hours so it's completely plausible for someone who plays the game very regularly to experience this more often and potentially lose progress like i did. i was disappointed by the patch and it really is a hard pill to swallow but sometimes these things are necessary for the integrity of the game, even at the detriment of runners.

[@roddy_doddy]

@@direct0ry Well that's what I mean. If you fell through the floor there, it's understandable to patch that out. But all the skips aren't accidental for the most part.

[@valkenpunch2145]

@@roddy_doddy fwiw it isn't like they patch "door skip before wrecking ball", what they have to do is patch "scoped rifle displaces the player hitbox through collision". Without being on the dev team none of us are going to know the explicit reason, but the result is that it solves multiple bugs, some of which can hurt the player's experience which ofc comes before extra community stuff like speedrunning

[@secondalice0215]

​@@direct0ry this glitch you speak about is actually different from the "phase through doors" one, it happens sometimes when the game doesn't 100% load the next area you're about to enter, and fun fact: it's still present in the game, nice priorities Capcom

[@theevicerater96_97]

This video was amazing, solid, informative with some great comparisons to relate to! I've always wanted to try my hand at speedrunning but it always seemed pretty daunting (especially being a console player) but you've inspired me to wanna try in the near future, thanks fam🤜🤛

[@weisin9660]

Ah yes, the very engaging and fun gameplay of standing against a wall pointing to the floor until time passes and you can get your keycard

[@nuggetclone8406]

Any%; Runs that mean anything goes to get the fastest time, meaning cheesing the game as well.

[@bhanunihale4576]

people that hate on speedrunning are the ones that simply don't have the skills to do it themselves, I still remember the first time I watched a speedrun and was amazed and couldn't wait to try it myself...

[@kirbodin]

I disagree slightly with one of your points. I can understand and agree with devs who patch out tech that is fun and used for speed running, that don't break the game, in one context. That is exploits that a casual could reasonably actually find. They could then use the glitch to play more optimally, and end up having less fun with the game overall. One example that jumps to mind is the infinite luck levels from the demon's souls remake. I love it, but It can hurt the overall experience of new or casual players.

[@TheCatWarBoss]

Regarding casual player experience vs speedrunning perception: I find it to be stupid. Why somebody care about how someone else playing a SINGLE PLAYER game. It looks like childish fun policing. Playing game not in the same way as i do? Open fire! I am law abiding "citizen" but I always found speedruns to be fun to watch. I dont know there is something interesting about watching people playing game "in a wrong way". Perhaps because back in my school days finding glitches and exploits was something fun and exited to talk about?

[@insertnamehere5452]

I'm glad you tackled this topic. After years of only watching you and others speedrun, I finally started to do it as well on PS5 (wish I could on PC but I can't afford one). What's great about the skips is the fact that it's somewhat easy to do after practicing it, even on console. Sadly, the new patch killed my happiness in finally trying to copy what you and other speedrunners do. Awesome video as always, Waifu! And thank you for the making the speedrun race happen, it was such a blast to watch!

[@iitzfizz]

I know what you mean man. Have watched speed runs for years but with this RE4 is the first time I've tried, and sucesfully implemented them myself and it felt really satisfying. Really gutted it's gone now.

[@beardedwonder211]

Your line about how the major glitches in this game are very purposeful (door clips, Mendez skip) is mostly my issue. I played through the game 2 or 3 times casually before even trying any of the skips possible on console and never had a major noticeable glitch in my "dev intended" playthroughs.

[@Grimeaper]

I as a dev... think if you leave your game vulnerable to glitches and not like softlock glitches that happen sporadically its cool not to patch. Glitch gameplay is a style to me as well. That is just how I see it. You have the average joe style, you have the cracky who thinks so far out of the box he is not on the same planet, you have the TAS-ers, you also have the speedrunners who make use of all this and that is fine to me. Same with modding and so on your game do whatever you want with it.

[@vismattress5760]

okay, but glitches are by definition unintended therefore its fine to fix them.

[@supersoldierx40]

Glitches are by definition a mistake in the game and a good developer will fix them or it'll lose credibility in The eye of some people Speedrunners are like 1% of the consumer and they can still speed run the game without glitches

[@writerlairchannel2636]

Yes glitches that aren't necessary breaking the game is the fun thing for some that mastered the game and know how to bend the system to their needs

[@red_menace1829]

@@vismattress5760 you're ridiculous 💀 this is a modern game dilemma, with the way people like you think, I'm pretty sure you're about 19 and have grown up with this mindset.

[@TheRibbonRed]

@@supersoldierx40 as another dev, I say this is not true. Especially in video games. Your statement might ring true if this were some other professional software, but this is a single-player video game. Bugs; like features; have priority scales. The bugs Title Update fixed were neither regular gameplay-breaking nor disrupting in any shape or form.

[@ButterStick64]

Reminds me of when Nintendo patched the Infinite Assist Trophy glitch from Smash Ultimate. It’s not even usable to skip hours of an adventure mode or get an advantage over other players (at least in a genuine setting), it was a *fun* , wacky thing you could do at no expense. But any glitch is a bad glitch to developers so it was removed.

[@morelesslike]

Accusing developers of being ignorant for not going along with your perspective is kind of ignorant in itself. Glitches might be gamebreaking, they might be cool, they might change the experience for better or worse, all of that. It's author's right to keep or change their vision in the end. Good luck riding the hype, anyway

[@gage8545]

Agreed, and good analogies. I’ve started watching a lot of speed runs of RE4, and initially was frustrated when seeing people glitch through doors. I think many big RE4 fans looking for speedruns just want to see their favorite game played efficiently, but then find people breaking the game, and find themselves frustrated. I think glitch-free speedruns and all-glitch runs should be in separate categories, but I can appreciate both. As, again, these are just the same pool being used with different rule sets.

[@ak_chief8853]

For the algorithm! And very informative and to the T even if it was a “longer” video enjoyed every second. Keep up the great work Wifu

[@russianfeline1286]

My dad used to dislike speedruns for the exact image issue you mention in the video, he didn't really understand why people liked it until i performed a speedrun with him and explained everything i knew goes into a speedrun. After telling him that it's a mix of all those components and loving the game enough to run it, he seemed to genuinely change his mind. I think that maybe those sorts of conversations are what this issue needs, and an understanding that speedruns differ between games. If the stubborn, 100% completion lover that is my dad can change his mind about speedruns, i think most people can.

[@koffiya9184]

If people dislike these glitches, they just have to ignore them and leave speedrunners alone.. there are glitchless categories for a reason lol. Interesting to hear your perspective on this patch. I am not a speedrunner myself but it's very interesting to learn about it!

[@k1ler4m]

Like what the hell why there is so much hostility all of the sudden, or I am just discovering this?

[@tysej4]

I understand the idea of enjoying a game fully, no glitches, no nothing. Taking it all in. And funnily enough even speed-runners don't often just jump into a new game on full speed-run mode. They probably play it through normally... A bit faster than others maybe, thinking about time-saves and routes here and there.

[@DeathXtremeHaseo]

Now hold on tho; you have to remember that what is fun for one person is not necessarily fun for another. The Halo Infinite run is a perfect example, I wanna see a speedrun which to me means playing the game the most efficient way possible WITHOUT having to resort to major game breaks, out of bounds stuff etc. I don't want to watch someone just fly through the air constantly for 20+ min etc, I don' want to see someone clip through the map and skip entire areas. It gets kinda hard to find good runs when most of them involve major glitches (thx god for NMG category), especially when runners stick to just one category (very few runners dabble in multiple categories). I guess this is why I prefer to stick to RPGs and Action games since it's more skill based/planning is required (not that I myself find some of the strategies fun since fun strategy vs cheap strategy is another debate)

[@Crouton-]

I mean that's why there's two catagories, Glitchless and any%. I like watching glitchless too because I it involves strategies that any player can use without needing to cheat or abuse the game. However, I did really like the wall glitches because they were a charming part if the speed runs. I think I felt more joy and satisfaction when I first clipped the wall in the island than I did getting the platnum trophy lol. But if this is the direction capcom wants to go with the game that's fine with me. Just sucks that there's now going to be a disconnect between console players and PC players.

[@rh7474]

You just solved your own problem by bringing up the fact that there is a NMG category. There are always multiple categories so you always have options. Glitch runners and their viewers never talk shit about non glitch runs. But the opposite is not true. People act like you're personally harming them by playing the game in a way they don't find fun.

[@k1ler4m]

It’s if people have different tastes and prefer different playstyles, if there was a way to conveniently separate the categories in tidy and orderly fashion, clearly marked by name to let you know what to expect, wishful thinking I know. Oh wait.

[@munerahbr5085]

personally, I love watching a speed runner decimate a game in an hour that I couldn’t in 10 hours watching them, perform strategies and precise techniques to defeat a level as fast as possible, is always fun but what I sometimes dislike in speed running is to watch them head into a difficult room or a Bossfight just to completely skip it, by clipping into a wall and running into the end of a level when watching RE4 remake speed run for the first time I was excited to see how they defeat Mendez or the garrador only to be disappointed by them, clipping into a door or a rock to skip the entire fight when watching the patch notes, I was really excited to see how speed runners will develop strategies to get through these fights as fast as possible but many opted to not play the patched version of the game

[@Cotsos88]

Personally I always prefer to watch glitchless speedruns. It's more fun to watch someone for example walk the ballroom perfectly than simply glitch through. I understand the appeal of the glitches though. As for the scope glitch, it 's a glitch that happened in multiple occasions and it's easy to accomplish. If it was only in one door it would be different. Now it makes sense to me to fix it.

[@davidbjacobs3598]

Same here. The appeal of speedruns to me is to watch the game get mastered (and give me tricks for my own playing). I feel like everyone kept saying that RE4 would get a glitchless category, but I've yet to come across any.

[@mitchsz]

Believe me I would not even consider getting all achievements if it wasn't for that ch14 door skip, it was just not appealing enough to go through that cursed area again just to get a S+ on hardcore. This is why I love this community and its discoveries, we help each other by sharing information and that's awesome. Honestly, people who care about a singleplayer game glitch are just annoying.

[@mrw5102]

I do think that removing the glitch from Resident Evil 4 was actually necessary. we're not talking about just a minute or two cut from the game by doing it you literally can skip an entire chapter, one instance you can softlock yourself so I do think that this can lead to a bad outcome that's necessary to remove it. I don't really think it was a stab at the speedrunning community.

[@neoshenlong]

I'm sorry for the Speedrunning community, one that I enjoy quite a lot. But You cannot blame Capcom for fixing their game. It's a sad side effect of simply caring about their game being in the best state possible, which is something I find really positive for the overall gaming community. And, knowing the Speedrunning community, I'm 100% sure they'll find new glitches to exploit for even better times. This game is still too young.

[@user-mv3cg7hi7g]

I am glad they patched it, and I respectfully disagree with you. If you wish to downpatch so you can keep your time skips, that's up to you, and I encourage you to do what you enjoy, but It is important to realize that glitches impact everyday players. You can say "then just don't use x glitch", but realistically, knowing a glitch is there will both pressure casual players to play using these because they know it is there, and promote glitches and skips as high level play rather than overcoming a game using the mechanics present currently in the game. Both glitches and non glitches speedruns have their place, but I think developers should be considering "will this possibly encourage normal players to rob themselves of portions of the game" Ultimately, I agree that people should be able to play the way they wish to, however I disagree with developers not patching out glitches. Both have their place, but I would rather have people attempting to circumvent normal gameplay for speedruns go around a few hoops than impact casual players. Anywho, wish you all safety out there and happy speedruns.

[@WaifuRuns]

This is a really interesting perspective that I haven’t fully explored, I have seen a couple of people comment this and I’ve been thinking about it quite a bit. Thanks for the insight

[@user-mv3cg7hi7g]

@@WaifuRuns of course, glad to just throw thoughts into the mix. given the often varied and different goals of Speedrun players (glitches, non glitched, %, ect.) It just makes sense they would focus on what is considered "normal and fair play" for their games official versions of games and normal players seeking to play within the games intended mechanics. Speedrunners outside of that will always find a way if they so choose. Always enjoy your content and look forward to watching your runs well into the future!

[@AngelicRequiemX]

Well said.

[@CoolSaver]

So much good thoughts in this video, thank you for bringing them up. I am actually that one (probably (not)) person that feels left out, because i wanted to do speedruns of this game, but for gaming i have only my console, so knowing that i can't do these cool skips or that console version speedruns will no one ever watch due to lacking them, i feel holded back and don't know if even start to run.

[@thehighlandfox]

I feel like these glitches that will never break casual gameplay and only help people who want to speedrun the game should be left alone

[@thestand5217]

if you use the skip in the wrong spot (chapter 13 while ashley is still locked behind the keycard door), you can softlock yourself out. There's probably other places too. it's not really surprising they fixed it

[@thehighlandfox]

@Brian Sullivan yeah but what I mean is no one can accidentally clip through any of these doors, if people try to skip stuff and softback themselves then that's on them, a casual player would never get softlocked in that way

[@DanceswithBlades5]

​@@thehighlandfox It may require some specific work but it can happen accidentally, running around to avoid a regenerator and ending up back against a wall I accidentally yeeted myself out of the world. So I can o ly imagine other accidental activations of the glitch in other places just through sheer happenstance.

[@patrickjones2843]

I don't speed run but one of my fav things to do after beating a game is watch a few speedruns of it. I also loved watching ones where you get the devs reaction to a speedrun. Its so fun seeing fast ways to beat stuff that you didnt know about. Depending on the game sometimes the solutions people find is so different it can be confusing though.

[@writerlairchannel2636]

Yes glitches that aren't necessary breaking the game is the fun thing for some that mastered the game and know how to bend the system to their needs

[@Hamun002]

"Speedrunning is hard to understand" *flashes back to Tomato Anus's 3d modeled representation of Fallout 4 memory states in GDQ*

[@kittycecil3253]

So, one thing that people should take into account is that when someone makes a product, they want it to be experienced in particular ways. While speedrunning is on a couple of developers' minds when a glitch like the door skip comes up, and they see a whole bunch of videos telling people to play that way for completing challenges, you see that everyone is being told to skip entire sections of the game that you worked hours on. On a side note, i love speedrunning and think it is a fun way to enjoy games. But to be fair, i mostly enjoy watching glitchless speed runs myself lol

[@rh7474]

At that point though the fact I paid for the game should come before the developers intentions. I don't care what their intentions are. I paid 60 dollars( or more if you're the type to buy Limited Edition versions) so I'm gonna play the way that I want at the end of the day. And if you patch out something that makes the game more fun for me I will just stop playing.

[@AndyMcKeeFanForLife]

@@rh7474 Exactly. The devs already got my money for their product. I should be free to play it the way that I want to and not the way they try to force me. Imagine buying an album and instead of listening how you want to the band forced you to listen start to finish with no skipping or rewinding. No one would tolerate that.

[@Dks_Bh8]

Literally no one takes glitch catagory seriously apart from the people competing in it 😂

[@schieferf15]

I really like watching speedruns of games i know and find it very fascinating how some gliches work or even get discovered. I even tried a few skips on my own knowing nothing how to speedrun or use certain gliches, and i have to say the hapiness i felt when i managed to do the skip was alkostnas big as conpleting some challenges in the game. On one side i get the developers because some people see those gliches and think that the game is broken. But in the example of re4 remake you only can come across those gliches if you know about them, and they don't harm the game or the fun playing it. I mean who loves the wrecking ball section and the one before😅. I just find it a little bit hypocritical that they patched them because they were accesseble for everyone and made a new game pro easier to get the S+ rank, and then they sell the special upgrade tickets for real money so you can buy them and use the sweeper and handcannon from the beginning with infinite ammo and have it easier that way. Not a smart move capcom because you already got a little shitstorm for selling those tickets. I hope you understand my point because my english isn't the best😅

[@curto201]

That is so fucking cringe....

[@NateWolfKira]

I disagree on one point. Developers may target a specific vision for their game, if they discover a glitch or bug that negates their intended vision, then it is reasonable for them to pursue a correction to make the game closer to their intended vision. People shouldn't blame the developer for wanting to pursue getting their product as close to intended vision as possible. Glitches by their very nature are unintend consequences. To patch them is commendable to achieve original artist vision as much as possible. I can understand the speedrunning community making a specific request for their intended use. But it is unbecoming to impose their will over the artist vision or other gameplay style communities. My recommendation is to maintain speedrun records based on the version they were accomplished on. Which some speedrun communities already do. Some also have glitchless categories. This also means patching a game does not necesarily negate speedrunning, just creates new circumstances for the speedrunner to tackle. One can consider it a new challenge or new category.