Response to Shad - Nunchaku VS Simple Stick (Flute) Striking Analysis using the Impulse Block Method

[@shadiversity]

Really awesome tests mate. And I actually think using the stick made from the same wood as the chucks was more valid. I think testing the weapons at the same striking distance is the key part, that the chucks reach that distance with a cord vs a solid shaft should be one of the primary differences we are comparing it on. I wonder if striking horizontally would produce different results? I only mention this because even though I didn't have the equipment, my dummy was being impacted with much greater force with my stich vs the nunchuks and I wonder if the angle of strike was causing a greater difference due to different rotational dynamics and gravity.

[@WushuEngineer]

Thank you kindly for your comment and for sharing the link, good sir! I really appreciate your input. I'll definitely revisit the tests using a horizontal strike as soon as I've transferred the laser photogate timer onto the load cell backing plate and performed final calibration.

[@Ebi.Adonkie]

The test on the dummy is far better in my opinion Chad. A human shaped dummy is a better test. This test is a very objective yes, but misleading in my opinion

[@johnchestnut5340]

You were pushing through the blow. Yes. That is a factor. And it's part of energy transmission. Hit with a really fast BB? Or hit with a much slower cannon ball? Hit in the head? Or hit in the gut? How energy is transferred makes a difference. Good luck!

[@ObjectHistory]

I think the fact that you swung the stick like a stick 'and' the flail like a stick is the real factor. It's just not the same delivery and feel to get the most out of each.

[@jamestaylor338]

So what you're saying is... You can't push with nunchucks so the experiment is flawed.... Phenomenal logic I must say...

[@pedroalmeida3474]

The very best thing about KZbin is when people and content creators get together to discuss a topic, just awesome 😎

[@johnmartinez5228]

No me digas

[@Archimedes.5000]

Important thing: even though there is a difference in impact power, it is caused basically only by the apparent weight difference. If you divide the impact force by weight, you get almost the same number Also the velocity difference is basically neglible at this amount of tests

[@wilcoxway]

Clearly the solution is to make the nunchuck handles longer, thus bridging the loss in mass. Ancient China did do that by the way, it was called the war flail. Basically a nunchuck with one really long handle.

[@Aurora2097]

Interesting! So at the same length, the chucks hit almost as hard as the stick, possibly at greater speed and they don't break as easy, right? So... it is not a bad weapon if is is intended to: not potentially kill the opponent, keep the opponent at a distance, face somebody with a short bladed weapon, have a weapon that can be easily worn on the body, having a weapon which can be easily concealed. Sounds like a proper security thing to me actually!

[@algomez8563]

Yes, a Nunchaku is a concealable stick. But today there is a strong problem, nunchaku are illegal in many countries.

[@vksasdgaming9472]

@@algomez8563 They kill. Real easy to crush throat with one.

[@Alex-dh2cx]

If you try to fight using nunchuks against someone with a knife that wants to kill you, you're gonna die. I don't care how good you are.

[@dowe9382]

What I experience is totally different than the standard strikes practiced by the majority in which they swing the chucks vs. the way I use them is by using them as a trigger releasing them in a direct strike driven by the generated force similar to shooting a gun when the bullet is hurled like a missle toward its target, not a swing which loses its force in its travel toward its target. First you will have learn that procedure, which is another animal, get the picture.

[@Soinetwa]

one thing that might have weighted your experiment a bit in favor of the nunchaku is how you were holding each weapon it appears to be that you grabbed the nunchaku almost at the bottom of it with only few cms exceeding your grip 24:21 whilst on your strikes with the "flute" there was around three times as much shaft exceeding your hand 28:54 anyway good job mate interesting video either way

[@skyvenrazgriz8226]

The spinning up while completly unpratical would only come into play if for some reason the object (whatever you try to spin up) is to heavy to reach its maximum (limited by user) velocity first turn. Like with hammer throwing for exsample... some might to spin before just yeeting.

[@Lucky0wl]

omg thank you for making this test! Ive been all over trying to find a test like this!

[@beowulf.reborn]

I don't think that using the same wood as the nunchaku is a limitation in the test at all. The extra mass in the centre of the simple stick is part of that weapons advantage/strength; whereas the nunchaku opts for the chain/rope instead. It is part of the trade-off between the two weapons.

[@dmfaccount1272]

On the contrary, the string provides extra length to the weapon for the same amount of wood.

[@nunchakubeat610]

The use of the Nunchaku is like a wip ! Not on the side but on the end of the Nunchaku and makes a big snap noise when the chain stretches ! Strong enough to brake the Nunchaku just by snapping 🥢

[@Catbane]

With due respect, so many people, especially western friends, have misconception of the application of 2500 years old ancient Chinese weapons. Nunchucks (Chinese : 2 sectioned sticks) is categorized as "Soft" weapon by Chinese. Its applications is very different from "Hard" weapon such as sticks or poles. Soft weapons are very tricky to use and mastered even in the hands of true Chinese experts. It attacks not only with its striking force, but its delicate lethal abilities.... Do you know how nunchucks can break your neck, or disarm "Hard" weapon with ease but a stick cannot? Chinese believes in Yin Yan. Everything has both countering opposites. Soft against hard, bright against dark, Yin against Yan, black and white, true against fault, and vice versa. The idea of these concept is in the Chinese culture for thousands of years, and in the application of weapons as well. My point is that measuring brute forces produced by "Soft" weapon is meaningless..... Because, its design and application is never meant to defeat the opponents by brute striking force only.....My 2 cents

[@vksasdgaming9472]

Measure of brute force definitely disproves nunchaku being "weaker". How weapon is used is completely different story. Did you know judging by energies delivered it is safer to get shot with a gun than fall over?

[@chazcrouse5259]

first off, i love the back an forth in theses discussion videos. i especially love the experimentation in this one, definitely going to subscribe!. what has been nagging me in the back of my head while watching these though is that (unless i missed it) there doesnt seem to be the consideration of surface area. nunchucks are intended to strike with the very edge of the end. of course this is challenging because it is a precision strike so there is need to move in and out of optimal striking distance in the fight. F=ma is covered extensively as is velocity, but there is also pressure= force/area. the larger the area the smaller the force distribution. its like the opposite of a break fall. the goal of the stick as explained by shad is to follow through to really whollop them, using a large surface area to aid in the push and follow through. the nunchuck is used to bite with the tip to punish a would be attacker and dissuade further attacks. the nunchuck strategy is observed in the examples of capping the tips of the nunchuck or making hexagonal ends, lowering the striking surface area even more, and also in the example of the rebounds. you are hitting yourself with the nearest part, avoiding the more dangerous tip with that momentum. i enjoy nunchucks but i am not by any means arguing that they are a very effective weapon. mainly i think they are used to give an attacker pause with some flurry movements to intimidate, then a couple of good stings as they come in, in hopes they find an easier target somewhere else (as is usually effective with crime of opportunity). i dont think i would choose nunchucks unless i felt the need to conceal them. i would imagine they would just bull in take a couple hits and take you to the ground if they were determined to do so. if i wasnt worried about concealment (and was still using less lethal bludgeon class weapons) i would choose the stick, although many of the nunchuck principles can be applied to the stick, the lever and the surface area as demonstrated in kali/escrima/arnis. the staff, spear, 3 sectional staff, nunchuck, and double sticks pretty much all use the same attack patterns so they are easy to cross train together. anyhow...sorry for the novel, i love the topic, and your video is especially fun with the style of experimentation. we teach math and physics through martial arts application as some high schools here which is a fun way to break the stigma of math sucking :) also i loved the critical fail reference!

[@WushuEngineer]

Thank you for your comment. You are correct that the Impulse Block method cannot account for the force per unit area associated with a strike. If someone were to strike the system using both a sword and a club and happened to strike with the same energy, impulse, force etc., the system would register both strikes as being identical (at least as far as the measured variables are concerned). We are still working on developing a method to account for the pressure of an impact. Unfortunately, the technology that would allow me to do what I want to do (show the wave of pressure travelling through the target volume as a function of time) would cost us tens of thousands of dollars to develop. There are less technology-dependant ways of approximating this, but I haven’t yet finalized a design and methodology. It is still on the list of things to do, though.

[@vksasdgaming9472]

You underestimate how powerful strikes nunchaku delivers with ease. Those "stings" easily crack bones and that rebound everyone is so scared of doesn't matter.

[@dowe9382]

This is a simple common sense issue which is made difficult by ignorance of the unknown, first of all the practice of using nunchuks in the traditional way is the problem, everyone says follow thru with your swing and mostly all people follow that logic and this is all they know. If you compare the way bruce strike which is simply direct strike to the target, not wasting time and energy by swinging from one side to the other afraid of hitting or injuring one self, choosing to hold them close to the chain instead of the bottom end because they feel heavy and awkward all of those issues has to be adjusted in order to acquire a higher level generating power and the speed of a bullet and knowing how to control them before and after the strike to control any bounce back, so Bruce way is the best he left the blueprint.

[@WhatIfBrigade]

The fan is my favorite weapon because it is the only one I can carry into a bank. A magazine makes a great fan. Generally, think the arguments for spending a lot of time training on how to control & defend with chain weapons like nunchaku fall apart compared to spending the same amount of time training with a stick. A stick fighter is going to be able to master more techniques in the same amount of training. I'd rather have a nunchaku or a fan than nothing, but even though I love the fan I know far more moves with a stick.

[@vksasdgaming9472]

You forget one thing: there are way more to learn with nunchaku. Having BIG SWING #1-3 loses to having swing #1-6, grab #1-6, feint #1-6 and dirty trick #X and that is painful fact meatstick-handicapped n00bs can't handle.

[@TheKastellan]

@@vksasdgaming9472 n00bs ....

[@bikersoncall]

This seems to be the general argument made by those in the Shad Camp regarding nunchucks vs 'stick' ; Its kind of like saying that it's better to fly cross country in an ultra light , than a lear jet, because of the training time it takes to fly the lear, yet the Title, (Theme, Header) is ; Nunchucks FAIL. LOL

[@TheKastellan]

@@bikersoncall Bad analogy since the point is in self defense ,unless you are far higher trained than your opponent, a stick would be better, that isnt taken account into your analogy at all I don't even know if you are for nunchucks or for sticks so I am going to leave it at that.

[@WhatIfBrigade]

@@bikersoncall Nunchucks take more training, but don't perform any better. And in a modern context, they aren't inconspicuous. Nunchucks are an ultralight instead of taking a Cessna.

[@Chraan]

Concerning your access to self-defense-weapons: I think Shad made a good point carrying a cane for self-defense. I personally use a flashlight, but it only really shines (pun not intended) at night.

[@billylee4460]

You aint gonna carry no cane everywhere you go lol. Even if you want to, where are you gonna put if you go indoor like a store or someones house or something? For nunchucks no one needs to know you have it on you.

[@12-343]

@@billylee4460 You can carry a cane indoors to someone's house.

[@graymatter3803]

Great stuff! Keep it up! I think the length of the cord/chain compared to rigid components is detrimental to power generation. First, it's rather dead weight. But more importantly, it doesn't help apply the force in the optimal direction throughout the swing. In my practice, it seems to smooth everything into a sloppy line lead by centripetal force rather than allowing the body mechanics of wrist and rotator cuff to direct the force forward.

[@mekugi]

Quick question.....regarding the "form" of the tennis ball test at 19:00. While I am not an expert by any means, I do now the basic principle behind impact velocity. My question is: Could the way your are performing the full spin and impact change the way the measurement is given? What I mean is, if you were at a distance of say, two steps, are spinning the tennis ball that as fast as you can with the rope, and then stepped forward "walking" the ball into into the impact plate- would that CHANGE the strike load? It seems that the faster the ball is going, the harder it would hit. What you are doing here is "spinning" and then decelerating at the last second to direct the ball into the plate, no? Thanks!

[@WushuEngineer]

Thanks again for your comments and questions. I can repeat the tests using a walking motion as you described just as soon as I've transferred the laser photogate timer onto the load cell backing plate. I was very careful to give both sets of tests a fair go, I try not to let any personal bias affect my investigations. I was not actively decelerating the swing prior to impact. However, the act of moving my hand forward to bring the tennis ball into contact with the strike surface may have made it look like the movement was decelerating.

[@mathuaerknedam5826]

Thanks for providing quantitative data, and clear statements of the limitations and assumptions. Now that we have a (limited) test of the two using essentially ident6ical strikes, it would be interesting to have some analysis of the striking potential for each weapon. Is there another way to strike with each that would be more "effective"? For example, would it be possible to use the flute with a two-handed strike?

[@WushuEngineer]

Thanks for your comment. I will put that suggestion on the list.

[@nunchuckman4253]

This was excellent! Especially liked your detailed analysis at the end. Great and accurate points.

[@1320Bushido]

I just got to say the dojo and office are beautiful

[@TheDarkeyndyel]

i really hope he held it differently and let the end part hit...

[@wyrmh0le]

Thumbs up for fierce chicken

[@acethesupervillain348]

good stuff, a bit long, but it's good to answer these questions thoroughly. Have you done these tests with tonfa/night-stick yet? I'd be interested to see if there's any real difference in some of the more obscure tonfa attack forms.

[@WushuEngineer]

The tonfa is actually on the list of future projects. Good to see that there is interest in an assessment of that weapon.

[@kevionrogers2605]

I always equated nunchaku as two billy clubs tied together. If the shaft is filled with lead shot or iron ballbearing it can concentrate more force. Also you can snap it like a jab with accuracy.

[@tjl4688]

You can snap with a stick as well.

[@iamlukie1826]

I don’t mind longer videos

[@CattyRayheart]

it is what it is. Interesting conclusion and thanks for the exhaustive testing.

[@KurNorock]

Big problem here. Sure, velocity and mass have a lot to do with impact force, but that's not the whole story. There is also "push" or "penetration" which is imparted by momentum. When you hit with a flute/stick, and follow through with your swing, your weapon will impart more energy using that momentum. With a nunchaku, even if you follow through with your swing, the floppy end will just bounce off the target wasting that energy and imparting no extra momentum to the target. An example of what I'm talking about is baseball. To hit a ball as far as possible, you need to swing the bat, hit the ball, and follow through with your swing. If you swing the bat and immediately stop swinging as soon as the bat makes contact with the ball, the ball will never go as far. When you hit with a nunchaku, that's what you are doing. Failing to follow through.

[@WushuEngineer]

Thanks for your comment. You may have missed the part in my video where I gave a full technical description of the Impulse Block method testing procedure that was used to compare the performance of the two weapons. Impulse (the basis of our Impulse Block method and one of the tabulated values in the comparative tables shown in the video) is actually the change in momentum associated with the weapon impacts. As you would have expected, the average impulse (change in momentum) associated with the flute was notably higher than that associated with the nunchaku.

[@KurNorock]

@@WushuEngineer Fair enough. I was only listening to the video in the background while I was working. I probably missed that. I was just going on one of the data tables you showed that just had velocity and mass listed. My mistake.

[@DanHarkless_Halloween_YTPs_etc]

Wow, even pepper spray is illegal to carry for self-defense in Australia? So if someone comes after you with a pocket knife, you're expected to either successfully run away or get slashed? That's pretty messed-up. Anyhow, thanks for all the very interesting investigation on this topic. I'm surprised there wasn't a commercial velocity timer with the resolution you needed, but good work on creating one - the MythBusters would be proud. Clever to build the electronics into one of those transparent parts organizer clamshell thingies (?) - I'll have to remember that one.

[@toottoot3344]

The advantage is that with a lot less people carrying weapons around you have less need for self defence.

[@DanHarkless_Halloween_YTPs_etc]

@@toottoot3344 Yes, I understand the concept, but knives aren't exactly difficult to get ahold of, and I presume small Swiss Army type knives are legal to carry? I knew about Australia's restrictive gun laws, but I didn't know even non-lethal "even the odds" type weapons like pepper spray were illegal. I guess if I were living in Australia, I'd consider getting good at unarmed self-defense a necessity. Glad Wushu Engineer & Scientist are providing that service (and with a science-based approach, to boot!).

[@toottoot3344]

@@DanHarkless_Halloween_YTPs_etc My point is Dan is that self defence isn’t needed the vast majority of the time, and is useless in a lot of the exceptions as well because by the time you need to defend yourself you may have already been stabbed. Most violence in the UK as an example is a thrown punch or two, truly violent crime is a real minority as without carrying weapons people don’t get attacked by them due to when an issue escalates neither party has a weapon. I’d also argue that with no one drawing a weapon things don’t escalate as often.

[@DanHarkless_Halloween_YTPs_etc]

@@toottoot3344 You're still ignoring the fact that people can (if I understand correctly) carry a pocket knife, but you're not allowed to carry anything that can defend against a pocket knife. That's f-ed, regardless of whether weapon attacks tend to be less common in such restrictive countries.

[@toottoot3344]

@@DanHarkless_Halloween_YTPs_etc By the time you’ve tried stabbing someone who haas already attacked you with your swiss army knife they have punched you in the face repeatedly, a move which is also likely to cause more damage than a very small none fixed blade without a decent handle to grip with either.They are not a self defence weapon and people do not routinely carry them.

[@algomez8563]

The nunchaku is just a concealable stick. Around as effective as a weapon as a stick of the same length of the extended nunchaku.

[@vksasdgaming9472]

When versatility and concealability are taken into consideration nunchaku is obviously superior weapon.

[@robinthrush9672]

I noticed that the Power (W) of strike 4 of the stick was significantly less than any of the other strikes and strike 5 was a tad higher than the middle 3. Do you know why this once is such an outlier in power while being comparable or superior to other strikes with the weapon? Should the outer and inner hits be excluded from the data set? This would make the average nun-chuck power 8034.2 and stick 8122.7.

[@WushuEngineer]

Thanks for your comment. As I mentioned in this video, natural human performance is the most significant source of variation in these types of tests. The average variation in these measured variables was in line with what may be expected in terms of natural human performance variation, which is why we considered all of the results and did not remove the outlier data points. When considering human performance data such as these, it is important not to get carried away by these kinds of variations and instead to try to identify trends in the data. In this case that is more difficult because of the small data set. The processing of this small data set alone took a few hours, which is why the tests were limited in this way. The main take-away from these results should be that the weapons were surprisingly close in their performance. I actually ended up performing another set of tests involving the nunchaku and the flute in a follow up video comparing them to the performance of the tonfa. In this set of tests, the flute did outperform the nunchaku in all respects except that the results were still very close - indicating that natural human performance variation could still end up tipping them in one direction or another.

[@robinthrush9672]

@@WushuEngineer Thanks for the response and explanation.

[@Mr.Nichan]

10:05 At first I thoght that Kevin Gray comment made sense if you assume the two pieces of wood have the same diameter and density, but wasn't sure if it made sense for YOUR "flute" and nunchuck, where the they both have about the same total AND about the same total mass, AND about the same diameter, thus meaning the "flute" wood has a lower density than the nunchuck wood. I supposed the lower density meant there is likely less mass per unit area directly behind the area of impact. Might that affect the test? Maybe due to some effect involving how the stick deforms during impact? I looked at the physics (as I understand them): A smaller mass will decelerate faster, so the pressure will fall off faster after impact. However, it's not just the mass directly behind the impacting surface that matters. After the wood hits the impacted body, the impacted part of said body will deform in a way that causes forces that both accelerate the rest of impacted body and decelerate the impacting wood surface. As this part of the wood decelerates, that is elastic deformation. This creates a force that tries to return the wood to it's original shape. This decelerates the rest of the wood that is continuous with impacted surface (a lot less mass for the nunchuck than for the "flute") to decelerate, and simultaneously pushes the impacting surface harder into the impacted surface. Unless the deformation gets extreme enough to have a permanent affect on the shape if the wood (like plastic deformation), as the deformation increases, so does the force, until an equilibrium is reached that causes the deceleration of the impacting surface to match the deceleration of the of the whole contiguous wood segment. At the end of the strike, if the deformation remained elastic, the deformation will be undone as the pressure at the point of contact drops to zero, and this spring-back may add a little bit of an extra push. Thus, as long as the deformation in the wood remains almost entirely elastic, so the wood's shape isn't significantly permanently changed after each strike, and as long as this elastic deformation isn't very much, so that the equilibrium is quickly reached, the amount of mass directly behind the point of impact shouldn't matter much to the curve of how pressure at the impact point changes over time during the strike, and thus not really to any of the important effects of the strike. What does matter is the mass of wood contiguous with the impacting surface. (The other half of the nunchuck is technically connected, but I don't think the rope has a big effect on the deceleration of the impacting wood segment, since this rope deforms very easily laterally and can slide relative to the wood with only sliding friction resisting, and so can't effectively transfer force to the handle segment, though it might have some small effect if the rope is taut.) I think this is already a much larger difference between the "flute" and nunchucks than anything deformation of the wood would cause.* *Unless of course one DOES significantly permanently deform, like how your "flute" snapped in two :). I guess the lower density wood was also weaker. After doing this analysis, I realized that this difference in mass of the impacting segment might be part of why the comment made sense. Then I realized that it still doesn't make sense, because equal length, not including the chord STILL gives the "flute" more impulse (force×time applied to the impactee) and more energy put into the impactee, since only the impacting segment of the nunchuck must be decelerated, while a simlar segment of the flute, plus the other half of the flute, must both be decelerated (though the other half was admittedly never moving as fast, and the nunchucks would still have more reach in this situation). After watching the video, I realized my analysis was obviously ignoring some important factors.

[@WushuEngineer]

Thank you for your comment. The flute and nunchaku were both made out of the same piece of wood and therefore they had the same density. As the wood was a very dense hard wood and the effective cross-sectional area was quite large in comparison to the length, the effect of elastic deformation would be very minimal compared to the other factors involved.

[@mattbronsil6336]

Love this. My thoughts. And feel free to comment on my math or thinking of this. Nunchaku hit with 1316N force and weighed 629g. Flute 1531N of force at 814g. The weight of the flute is 1.2941 times the weight of the nunchaku. The flute's force, even with its extra weight, is only about 1.163 times the nunchaku. I recognize the math is not "that simple," and many variables need to go into it. But I would argue the nunchaku still has a chance of being just as strong, if not stronger, of a strike. I love the online debate that sparked from Shadiversity's video. The biggest issue I have with it his content lately: I used to enjoy his videos and get a lot out of them, but he seems to be just taking shots at weapons he clearly doesn't understand how to use. Making him lose credibility in my eyes, sadly.

[@Technoanima]

I would totally be down to do Shaolin briefcase style.

[@AR15ORIGINAL]

When do subtitles come out for this video? I'd like to have the written names of the kata and some other pieces of data, since researching while not knowing the correct spelling is rather difficult. Anyways, I'll be already taking a few notes here. Nunchaka = 627g Stick = 626g Oh, the stick is a "flute". No new weight was given for the second flute created once the first one broke.

[@WushuEngineer]

Thanks for your comment. I'll try to get on top of that in the next couple of days.

[@AR15ORIGINAL]

@@WushuEngineer I see! Btw, I think you didn't give us the weight of the new flute you made after the first one broke...

[@WushuEngineer]

@@AR15ORIGINAL I called out the weight of the new flute during a weigh-in on camera after the first flute broke, although I did not tabulate it. You may just have missed it. It was 814 g.

[@AR15ORIGINAL]

@@WushuEngineer That's a massive difference from the previous flute! Doesn't that interfere with the testing? After all, it makes it seem as if a same-weight flute would have actually been weaker than the nunchaku.

[@WushuEngineer]

@@AR15ORIGINAL I am sure that this did affect the results, but it is not easy to predict exactly how this would have affected the tests. Sometimes these kinds of parameter changes affect the results in non-intuitive ways. As I mentioned, this was just one of the unfortunate limitations of this set of tests. I did not have a replacement that was robust enough at the right weight.

[@RayneAngelus]

What is that ridiculously large-bladed polearm behind you and to the left when you're striking the force measurement thingy?

[@WushuEngineer]

Thanks for your comment and question. The weapon in question is a training guandao that I had made about 15 years ago. Actual combat-ready historical examples are typically much smaller. However, general Guan's has achieved mythical status, with the more modest accounts I have seen estimating its weight to have been about 15 kg. The weapon is similar to a European glaive.

[@RayneAngelus]

@@WushuEngineer 15 kilos. Roughly 34 pounds. That is insane. I'm 99% sure I couldn't lift that properly, let alone swing it = P

[@Angarato86]

did you or can you also calculate the energy requirement per swing? idk if its true but when im using my nunchucks i feel like theyre alot more energy efficient then a similar sized stick/flute.

[@WushuEngineer]

That is a good question. It would require the use of EMG to do a comparative study of muscle activation when using the different weapons. This is entirely possible to do, but we do not yet own the equipment to do so. Might be a possibility to do this collaboratively with the university in future.

[@fredbloggs5902]

Is it me or is his right forearm DOUBLE the thickness of his left?... ...never miss ‘left arm day’ 🤣

[@xPhen]

Try to create a consistency system that allows the weapons to be used at the same rate of power. It seems like this would have a huge variation of skill, power and technique you have. Which aren't all at the same skill level to make a proper testing field. All weapons are based on the user and all martial artists knows this. Taking it down to those who don't know anything, one is predicable while one isn't. This makes them hugely dependent on the user, so back to the test you have. I would love to see this done in a controlled way that shows numbers based on the impact relevant to speed and power. As a personal opinion, go to a place were you can own a gun. It's safer knowing you can protect yourself in any situation, right?

[@Yaple144000]

Such a satisfying relaxing video. Like the Bob Ross of the martial arts scientist engineer dude with a cool accent 👍

[@Nu_i-Man]

How would this apply to spinning elbow/punch in mma?

[@WushuEngineer]

Thanks for your comment and question. Typically, bare-hand rotational strikes are limited in angle of rotation to 360 degrees or less except for very rare exceptions - thus constituting at most a single swing. They typically don't require multiple rotations in order to execute and are thus quite efficient.

[@reycfd7753]

The test of the pudding is in the eating. TEST IT IN SPARRING with padded nunchacks vs padded sticks.

[@WhenYouveGoneGuru]

That would just prove who can land more hits, but not how much damage those hits would actually do and by extension who would actually win.

[@beenright5115]

Haven't Even started the video yet, but that intro earned a sub! 😂😂😂

[@WushuEngineer]

Welcome aboard!

[@demianrivas7559]

Wushu engineer. First, I like to apologize for my bad English. I tried my best to express myself. Second, I like to encourage you to continue whit your content, for me, in my opinion it´s great (obviously not everyone can agree whit me). Now to busyness its possible when you are in fight whit a flute can you have more effective in make damage and easy to wield, but also the impact can damage you (example wrist of the hand) and Nunchaku can absorb the impact, recoil and easily keeping striking multiple times (or interrupt the momentum) without of taking too much damage in the wrists?. Again, thank you for sharing, and if you like to answer my question. Gretings from Argentina.

[@WushuEngineer]

Thank you for your comment and your kind words. I would agree that having a flexible link between the separate parts of the nunchaku would reduce transmission of impact forces into the hand and wrist. The resultant reduction in repetitive strain to the wrists, arms and hands is possibly why these kinds of flail-like arrangements were often used in agriculture as tools to beat out grain.

[@mudpawsvoom6132]

Oh yeah and try using cocobolo nunchucks you might be surprised just how nasty they can be , I have a set and one of my friends had them we would break cinder blocks and ham bones with them .

[@Dimas5]

why couldnt you cut the stick to make it the same weight?

[@WushuEngineer]

Thanks for your question. In terms of the rotational mechanics associated with the strikes in question, the length of the stick plays a very important role. A shorter stick will have some of its impact characteristics significantly reduced.

[@Dimas5]

@@WushuEngineer oh yeah that makes sense. Thanks for still answering a year later haha

[@TrivialTax]

Very balanced video. Excelent content :)

[@IronBodyMartialArts]

Very good. Another Saffa. I’m from Durban. But I’m not there anymore. You in Australia? I also made a reply to Shad on this topic. Mine was based on Traditional Striking method and not flashy stuff.

[@WushuEngineer]

Hey! Thanks for the comment. I've still got family in Durban. I was born in Grahamstown and lived mostly in East London and then Cape Town before moving to Auz. We're based in Queensland (Toowoomba). Been here for almost 20 years now, although we have traveled back and forth to both SA and Taiwan regularly for training up until a certain virus made an appearance. Really good to see someone else from old SA who is in the same space.

[@IronBodyMartialArts]

Yea. Keep in touch Bru. I am in WA. But if ever I am over your way would love to pop in your dojo/ Kwoon looks AWSOME.

[@WushuEngineer]

@@IronBodyMartialArts Absolutely! Sounds like a plan. Would be cool to have a chat and show you around.

[@ObjectHistory]

Great to have this kind of rigorous testing. Many thanks, just subbed you. My feeling has always been that chucks are more efficient (less input required for the same result) and faster but a comparable rigid stick goes further impact wise because it obviously doesn’t bounce away. Meanwhile not bouncing away is also why it’s more prone to break as you well proved! People as disparate as Native American Braves and English cosh makers used flail-like adjustments to reduce the chance of shaft breakage on clubs. If you’re ever bored and watch my nunchuck vid, I’d be interested in chatting about your observations on my results. Cheers.

[@WushuEngineer]

Thanks for the sub and comment. I will definitely have a look at your vid.

[@ObjectHistory]

@@vanivanov9571 Yes, for simplicity's sake I think it's fair (and overall accurate) to say the rigid stick doesn't 'bounce' away but I know what you're saying from a, I guess I'll call it, energy standpoint.

[@ontheotherside3968]

Reminds me of what Miyamoto Musashi wrote: "Do not collect or practice with weapons beyond what is useful."

[@Valter378]

greetings! the question arose - why do you hold the stick so far from the end when striking with a stick? And I want to draw attention to the fact that the weight of the nunchaku and the stick should not be the same, because this is a constructive difference between these two types of weapons, because you do not have a desire to make the weight of the flail equal to the rest of the test participants.

[@WushuEngineer]

Hi. Thanks for your comment and question. I hold the flute at that point because that is where this weapon is held traditionally. There are two primary reasons: 1. Greater control because the short projection acts as a small counterweight to the flute’s acting mass. 2. Some of the flute’s combat techniques involve leverage, manipulation or striking with that short end projection. As far as differences between the weapons are concerned, these are the limitations to the tests that I discussed freely in the video. No scientific test is free of limitations and sources of error as I mentioned in my video.

[@Valter378]

​@@WushuEngineer I understand you, thank you!

[@vociferonheraldofthewinter2284]

Upvote for the chicken noises. lmao! That made my night.

[@Asofe17]

Well 692 was significant record. At the later stages you seem like you did not try that hard again. I wonder if you could hit without spinning 690~ ? Damn i wish i could join such tests and prove it to myself. Human variables are the most frustrating thing to watch, cause you can think people had some bias, etc. Would love to try such thing myself. Great and very informative video.

[@bryanjackson8917]

Also, in your table you list "apparent mass". Can you please explain what you mean by this? I think you mean apparent weight (which is a measure of force), not mass (which is a constant).

[@WushuEngineer]

Apparent mass, also referred to in the literature as “effective mass” refers to the amount of mass that would produce the same amount of impulse if exposed to the same velocity as the impacting object. If the object was rigid and was moving freely, the effective mass would be equal to the mass of the object, however when a human is striking with the object, the object is constrained by the human’s hand/arm, and the apparent mass is therefore a fraction of the total mass of the object, and is also impacted by human biomechanics. This concept is commonly used in research dealing with human impacts, see this example as a reference - pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20676895/

[@bryanjackson8917]

@@WushuEngineer Can you give a different reference, because I did a quick Google search in the term "effective mass" and, other than its use in the article you linked to, could only find this term used in regards to electrons and solid state physics. Not trying to be a bother, just want to understand your use of this term. It seems to me that what you are really talking about here is apparent weight, and as that is a force that is widely understood and use in discussing such matters, it seems like this might be the more appropriate term to use here. Thanks for your response.

[@WushuEngineer]

Here is a good review article on the concept as used in combat sports research - www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0167945714002140

[@bryanjackson8917]

@@WushuEngineer Okay don't worry about providing additional links to the term "effective mass" as I found some on my own by typing in "effective mass biomechanics" as the search term. (That seemed to do the trick!) However, I would like to note here that I didn't see any equating of effective mass with apparent mass in any of the sites I took a quick look at, and I think you would be well served to list "effective mass" in your future tables rather than "apparent mass" to avoid any confusion in this regards. Speaking of confusion, yes I realize velocity is not a direct component of power, and my recent post stating such was just an inadvertent mistake made when I wrote the first draft of my comment and then failed to catch and correct. I wrote another post to you regarding the calculation of power in terms of time and energy delivered, and I hope to hear your response as to exactly how you calculated that power. Again, please take my comments and observations made in a positive light, and perhaps they will serve to help you clarify the presentation of your work to the public. Thanks!

[@bryanjackson8917]

@@WushuEngineer Okay thanks for that link. As I said before, it was just that I have never come across the term "effective mass" before (but then I have never really explored the world of biomechanics in regards to measuring striking force), and in your table you used the term "apparent mass" with an entirely different meaning from that which it typically carries in physics. OTOH, I can see how you might use the two terms interchangeably, but as I think you would be well-advised to stick to the term "effective mass" in your presentations as that seems to be the more widely recognized and less confusing term.

[@tjl4688]

I have some real issues with the particular strike used with the nunchaku. Why not use a classical overhand strike, as if you were striking straight downward onto someone's head (over their shield)?

[@herbertsmagon5777]

yeah, if he put as much effort into testing as he did into talking too much to the camera, he could have shared interesting information.

[@frankboogaard88]

I am willing, at age 57, to train in one of your worldwide thingies

[@frankboogaard88]

Has to be in the Netherlands though, but since they are part of the world ;)

[@WushuEngineer]

Thank you for your vote of confidence and inquiry. Unfortunately, I believe that our closest branch to the Netherlands is in London. I believe that there may have been someone teaching in Germany, though. I'll inquire and find out if they're still active.

[@counterstrike89]

Each chuck is different, solid hardwood is so destructive that is not advised for anyone to practice with, as it can break your skull and bones, its not funny, almost happened to me, lucky my head is ok. A long chain chuck or cord has advantages short ones don't, and the shorter ones have equally effective advantages long ones don't, so it depends on what nunchuck you're using, I have no idea what chuck Shad was using they were super long light looking wood on a string, they seemed awkward.

[@frankboogaard88]

@@counterstrike89 The human forehead is the hardest piece of bone in the human body after the teeth. I used to do some severe headbutting while still doing savate (30 years ago) But I am pretty sure you put a reply in the wrong thread ;)

[@PROPAROXITONO]

I think the apropriate way to do it is consider the idea behind the weapon. the idea behind the stick is power. the idea behind the nunchacku is speed. the unpredictability of nunchacku it's a flaw? depend. it's worst to the enimy too. to use a good use of a stick you always need put it at least in the side of your body to take the speed and power, move a lot of muscle etc.. what made it easier to avoid. a nunchacku you can strike with high speed without move the major part of your body, than making it almost impossible to predict where will hit, so where to defend or avoid it at all. in a fight knife vs stick and knife vs nunchacku, I would bet a nunchacku has more chance of success than the stick, because you need to open your guard to strike a good hit with the stick, but not with the nunchacku, like this guy shows: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nZe8k6yAra1kibM (6:40) even if you hit with less power, you hit with sufficient power, but a lot faster. it's like to compare a sport car with a truck. if you are comparing the ammout you can carry with each car, truck will always be better. if you compare speed, the sport car will always be better. if you compare how much gas you have to use, a popular car will be better than both.

[@codyworley5623]

The power of the almighty stick!!! What about dragons?

[@PROPAROXITONO]

Mano Menezes of Martial Arts.

[@mudpawsvoom6132]

Mite want to watch some Bruce Lee movies to see about the sounds he really made lol 😆

[@Dominik189]

Now there's some credentials that has hard to beat. Tought by South African military with experience from the Angola Bush War. Damn, mega respect. Edit: before someone mistakes this for pandering. I genuinely mean the mega respect. I've never met people as hard ass as SA military, except maybe the old Rhodie's who served during the Bush War in Rhodesia.

[@mociczyczki]

how strong can punch front part gloves your wife comapre to you on loadstar loadcell with 5 cm poliethylene foam ? this photo cell measured vvelocity nice device im maybe do something similar once for register not only punch force be loadstar force plate but also velicty of fist at 2-5 cm before contact .

[@sonofsueraf]

32:10 34:30 36:28 just timestamping for myself

[@counterstrike89]

What about solid hard wood chucks, I mean they are so destructive you can barely use them. And the lighter woods are still extremely deadly, but being lighter, no one can tell where the strike is coming from, and experienced chucker is going to be able to strike so fast, they human eye cannot see it, seriously, you can tell where a hand held stick is coming from more easily. So its the deception in the strike that is really wheat makes the nunchuck so deadly, its human nature to cover the eyes when something is above the head, like being swarmed by a bunch of bees, you cover the face and run, or back up, the nunchuck coming down from above from the wide angle, has a greater area of striking target, and it can be adjusted in real time as the opponent is moving, to t up the strike and land it.

[@WushuEngineer]

I would agree that deception and unpredictability are often undervalued concepts in terms of weapon design and use and barehand technique.

[@counterstrike89]

@@WushuEngineer I think Shad is thinking only from the perspective of handling the nunchucks, not facing the person who is wielding the nunchucks, to which you wouldn't know that persons total skill, and you'd be on edge as to protect your eyes and skull from being hit, you could lose an eye even if the person accidentally hit you never mind on purpose.

[@vksasdgaming9472]

@@counterstrike89 How can person utterly inept claim "expertise" on subject? Oh, I know. He's a liar.

[@counterstrike89]

@@vksasdgaming9472 Shad uses big cumbersome chucks, and even those historically might have defeated the Moguls. But its the speed of many chucks that I think will win out, its that whip lashing like effect and motion similar to a cats paws rapid succession of strikes to keep opponents at bay. You're going to keep the guy with the stick at bay, and likely get his hands or arms first before he gets you. One hit from the chuck anywhere, is going to damage the body, whoever hits first, is going to have a huge advantage, I think the chucker will.

[@vksasdgaming9472]

@@counterstrike89 What Shitiversity does is blatant and purposeful deception. Nothing more.

[@8Smoker8]

Gonna point out that I don't believe you're using the "whip" potential of the nunchaku to its full potential with that kind of point of impact. Shouldn't be hitting with the full section of the weapon, that close to the chain. Other aspects are the ease of chaining strikes, much higher with nunchaku, as well as the strikes being less telegraphed requiring less charging motion to be effective. As well as much less force being transferred to your wrist upon impact. Shad was wrong on this one, not completely ofc, but wrong.

[@vksasdgaming9472]

He started wrong and has gone to even more wrong than thought possible.

[@theldaniel170]

Thank goodness I wasn’t the only one who noticed. I was starting to think I’m crazy but yes; nunchuks are essentially a shortened whip. Nunchuks will cause more damage if you get hit with the tip than if you get struck with its side.

[@Gieszkanne]

None Chuck's lol

[@nothim7321]

Kinetic energy greater with stick = stick greater than nunchuku

[@vksasdgaming9472]

Kinetic energy greater with kick compared to 9x19mm pistol cartridge = kick more lethal than 9mm pistol round shot at you.

[@nothim7321]

@@vksasdgaming9472 see, this is where that argument would be a little simplistic, even if this were true... a 9mm only .357 in diameter, therefore that energy has around on average 400 or so ft lbs of energy focused on a MUCH smaller area, that matters. The stick and nuchaku have roughly the same area. Don't get your fanboy underoos in a twist.

[@nothim7321]

@@vksasdgaming9472 not to mention that, yes I was being a little oversimplistic and even trollish, I can admit.

[@tjl4688]

@@vksasdgaming9472 bullets are piercing weapons, not blunt force. The bullet breaks up inside of the target. A kick delivers damage through percussion (like a rubber bullet might).

[@vksasdgaming9472]

@@tjl4688 irrelevant rubbish

[@DMthefutureme]

Very interesting, it would be cool if you could eliminate the human factor. Doesn't have to be fancy, in thinking weights and pullies to be consistent. No need to spend on servos and motors. 10Kg weight will always give you same input for example.

[@Evra22]

What is results? Video is far too long

[@vksasdgaming9472]

About equal impact. In practical sense equally powerful.

[@herbertsmagon5777]

the heavier stick hit barely harder than the lighter nunchuck, mostly, because the nunchuck won a little in a category or two. He broke his first stick on the first swing that actually weighed the same as the nunchuck, so he used a heavier one.

[@Evra22]

@@herbertsmagon5777 Thx

[@Rawkit_Surgeon]

STIIIIIIICK!

[@danthiel8623]

Interesting

[@bryanjackson8917]

You may not realize this, but you made a significant and fundamental error in your calculations. The only thing that matters is the mass of the freely swinging nunchaku, not the one being held in the hand. The only contribution of the nunchaku held in the user’s hand is that is what creates the velocity of the swinging nunchaku, which velocity factors into the equation for KE. This is all that matters as obviously there is no solid connection between the two nunchucks. The mass of the striking nunchuck was, in reality, only half of the total mass which you originally measured of 626 grams for the two nunchucks combined, and (ignoring the relatively small contribution of the cord attaching the two nunchucks together) was therefore 313 grams. In addition, as the actual mass of the nunchuck that struck that apparatus was only 38.45% of the mass of the second flute used (of 814 grams), then that means that something besides mass must have contributed to the relatively equal striking power of the of the nunchucks as shown in your table. As KE is the product of ½ * mass * velocity squared, yet the nunchuck has only 1/2 the mass that you entered into your calculation of its KE, that means that the nunchuck must have been moving at a greater velocity than that measured by your apparatus. Either that, or something else is off in your calculations.

[@WushuEngineer]

Thanks for your comment. It appears that you have not understood the calculations involved. Please refer to the original Impulse Block method video for more details. This method has been reviewed by teams of scientists at several universities in Australia and forms part of a current PhD study. To summarise, the total mass of the nunchaku was not the mass used in the calculation of kinetic energy. It was the apparent mass mentioned in the video. Apparent mass is calculated using the impulse, which in turn is calculated from the force/time data. Apparent mass is the mass that is actively involved in the impact. As you say, much of the mass of the weapon is not involved in the impact and hence the total mass of the weapon cannot be used to calculate kinetic energy.

[@bryanjackson8917]

@@WushuEngineer Could please explain what you mean by use of the term "apparent mass"? My understanding of apparent mass is as follows: There is no such thing in Newtonian Classical physics as "apparent mass", and mass is a constant. Apparent mass is only reported and used in physics based on Einstein's Theory of Relativity. Apparent mass involves objects traveling at speeds that are much closer to the speed of light than a nunchucks or flute could ever hope to reach no matter who was wielding those weapons! (lol) You may be referring here to "apparent weight", which is a force and can change. But your table has a column listed as apparent mass and which is reported in kilograms ("kg"). Also, some of the numbers in your table don't make any sense. For example, the products of the reported kinetic energy (KE) and velocities (in m/s) do not equal that of the power generated (reported in watts), but they should. Hope you don't mind all these questions, just trying to understand. My training is that if you present your data in a table, that table needs to make sense, and to me yours doesn't. Finally, one last question for you: When you he had to substitute the second flute for the original that broke, but that second flute was of a significantly different mass than the first one, why didn't you just cut it down to size as needed? Seems like it would have been real easy for you to do. I noticed all the tools, including what appear to be saws hanging on the walls of the studio you were in. No, what you do is just say, "it is what it is" and move on without any further thought, consideration, or discussion as to how this large a discrepancy in mass might affect the comparison. It seems to me that that is not what a real engineer or scientist would say, especially when trying to get people to take him or her seriously. Again, not trying to overly cortical of you here, just trying to understand your demonstration video and access its overall accuracy.

[@WushuEngineer]

Firstly, in terms of apparent mass, please see my response which I made yesterday to your other comment on the topic of apparent mass. I believe this will answer your questions adequately. In terms of the values of power and kinetic energy, I recommend that you refer to descriptions of these values on Wikipedia as a good starting point. Power is the amount of energy transferred or converted per unit time, not the product of kinetic energy and velocity. Finally, in response to your question about the replacement flute. I was quite clear in the video about the limitations of the test. I have limited time to work on this non-profit endeavour of mine. This channel is for me to present things that are of interest to me and to initiate and encourage constructive discussion with like-minded people. The description of this channel is that it “revolves around anything that sparks my interest”. The investigations that I perform on this channel are generally initial proof-of-concept investigations and are constrained by a number of limitations, which I always endeavour to clearly identify in the videos. Outside of this channel, I am involved in a number of scientific studies with the University of Southern Queensland which are part of my wife, the Wushu Scientist’s PhD project, and these studies are performed with the necessary scientific rigour.

[@bryanjackson8917]

@@WushuEngineer Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your efforts in this area. My question remains though (which you really didn't answer): Why didn't you just cut the stick down to the proper size? Would not have cost you a cent to do and would have taken you what, a few minutes of your time to do so and thus resolved any problems in that regards. I am using the standard definition in physics of power as being the amount of energy transferred or converted per unit time. In the International System of Units, the unit of power is the watt, equal to one joule per second. You reported: 1. power (in watts), 2. time (impact duration in thousandths of a second), and 3. and kinetic energy (expressed as joules or "j"). Therefore, I would assume that, based on the fact that you reported these parameters in your table, you used time (impact duration) and energy (kinetic energy) to calculate power (watts). But the product of those two numbers in your table don't equal the amount of power reported there. So I'm just wondering, what was your power calculation based on as apparently it wasn't those factors in your table? Maybe your table just contained numbers your computer spit out? If so, then IMO you should either explain that and/or re-check them. And if it wasn't based on those numbers, then why did you report them in your table? It seems to me as if you mixed up the various concepts (between force and energy), and your videos don't really explain any of this either. (Note: I did watch your Impulse Block video you referenced.)

[@WushuEngineer]

The first stick that I used was selected to be the same weight and overall length as the nunchaku. The second stick was the same length, but heaver as it was made out of the same piece of wood. If I had cut the stick down to match the weight of the nunchaku, the length would have been significantly shorter, again affecting the outcome of the test. I chose to go ahead with the test keeping the variable of weapon length constant rather than the mass. In terms of the Power values on the table, if you have a look the values of each test, the Power value is the result of the Kinetic Energy (J) divided by the Impact Duration (s). Eg. For the Nunchucks Test 1, the Kinetic Energy, 103.1561 J divided by the Impact Duration, 0.013 s gives a Power value of 7935.08 W (J/s).

[@johnchestnut5340]

Your testing is faulty. But it's better than nothing...a nod to your video. The short of it is that you cannot properly test two different weapons without expending lots of resources including time and money. But you did a good job with what you have. Measuring impact angle would be good. Measuring against objects that move upon impact would be good if you knew what it took to move the objects. Using a jig to eliminate human variations would be good. In short, testing both weapons would require a lot of time and effort and money. Thank you for your work.

[@Rami-ll2bq]

Holy crap bro, open up a martial uni, let’s get things figured, soooooooo much bs in martial arts

[@vksasdgaming9472]

Shitiversity is huge source of it.

[@MARStheFORSAKEN]

the only practical use of the flail was to get around shields...the nunchaku doesnt even do this it needs to stay in the farm fields where it belongs

[@vksasdgaming9472]

It also belongs to police officer's equipment belt.

[@danthiel8623]

Comparable

[@tangrila4971]

you wouldnt really hit like that with a nunchaku..

[@herbertsmagon5777]

you can strike harder with a heaver flute than with lighter nunchucks, these results belong in the trash alongside the original club that broke :(