The History of Dragons Explained

[@ajclarke3978]

As a paying rest is history club member and a big youtube viewer, let me say - you have fantastic potential to gain a really good community on youtube, but not if you randomly black out on videos for a month and randomly miss out on a segment of series for no discernable reason. The quality of your content is great, but consistency is king!

[@Samwise110]

Hello Tom - the dragon in Beowulf, the first dragon of English literature, is very much a flier - e,g, nihtes fléogeð, fýre befangen, 'he flies by night, in fire encircled' (ll. 2273b-2274a).

[@GRIFFIN1238]

Mention of lidless eyes instantly reminded me of Sauron - "A great eye, lidless, wreathed in flame".

[@LeoneNut]

Always found it interesting dragons as mythical creatures exist in most parts of the world, from Europe through to China. But they even exist in Aztec & Mayan culture too.

[@longandshort6639]

They are not mythical. References to dragons in mythology is actually based on dinosaurs

[@bengray4149]

Mr Holland delivers an arrestingly camp take on all things dragon.

[@patriciahammondsongs]

I'm a massive sceptic, but growing up in the west coast of Canada, I spoke with three separate people (two extremely elderly, one less so) who had seen what sounded like a Plesiosaur. All three rarely told anyone about these sightings because it was just too annoying to be repeatedly not believed. If there had been a few lonely survivors I would have thought this particular coastline a likely place, full of nooks and corners and relatively recently populated by intrusive Europeans.

[@secretsteven4535]

While I would not discount plesiosaurs existing in human times, however within living memory is improbable, though time slips?

[@gosiachaaban2484]

There's a very old Polish legend about the dragon in Krakow, living in a cave, spitting fire and eating virgins, killed by a clever shoemaker, who prepares a meal of explosives sewn into sheep skin. And another creature similar to dragon, called Basilisk, Bazyliszek that dies when seeing its own reflection... a bit like Medusa.

[@keithscott1255]

"Here be dragons"

[@robhalstrom2937]

Tom, I appreciate your candor. “Well, we are being sponsored by sky.” As usual great work.

[@TheAnadromist]

Thanks for draggin' us through this one. Before the Lord of the Rings and Game of Thrones the best cinema dragon was in the film Dragonslayer. The film was not a big success and the story was weak, but the dragon was the absolute pinnacle of classic stop motion animated screen dragons. Thanks for this one men. Lots of inspiration.

[@plebius]

Reign of fire, much better dragon 🐉

[@Truffle_Pup]

@@plebius Such an awesome movie, great concept too.

[@TheAnadromist]

@@plebius I was talking stop motion not digital, and before LOTR. Have you seen Dragonslayer?

[@samuelyeates2326]

I'll always remember that last scene with the king stealing the credit.

[@MarcInTbilisi]

Groan! "draggin"!

[@Conorp77]

There absolutely is an element of treasure with Greek dragons; the one guarding the Golden Fleece being the best example, one who never sleeps and whose teeth become soldiers. But Jason is no dragonslayer, and they charm the beast to sleep instead.

[@Truffle_Pup]

Chuffed there is a new video, but not chuffed we haven't had episode 7 of Custer ☹

[@kyle-7107]

Spoiler Alert: Custer Dies

[@michaelandrewsalomonenewje4107]

Exactly! We’re hooked; what’s up? I do want to hear the commentary on Custer’s bugler and aide John Martin too.

[@benroper5049]

I've just looked- there are a bunch more episodes on Spotify!

[@tmalone99]

all the Custer episodes are up in podcast form.

[@Truffle_Pup]

@@tmalone99 If I click on podcasts it says 228 videos, the last being episode 6.

[@AlexMc9395]

Dragons have been a part of Chinese culture since the Shang Dynasty (1600-1046 BCE) and I believe this is because the ancient Chinese discovered the reptilian-looking dinosaurs as fossils high in the mountains. This gave the idea to the locals that they could fly, and the mix of fossils (Pterosaurs, marine creatures) encouraged free rein to the Chinese imagination, where they could mix and match wings, legs, heads and bodies to eventually coalesce into the dragon image with which we are now familiar.

[@winstondurden4427]

This is brilliant. To seamlessly move through history with such ease is truly amazing to observe.

[@Dave_Sisson]

I have always believed that the Romans stopped their expansion into northern and eastern Europe when they encountered Dragons. As pragmatic sorts they knew it wasn't worth the trouble and expense of further expansion into areas that were the natural habitat of creatures that would be difficult to defeat. Besides dragons kept barbarians busy, so those barbarians had less time and resources to attack the frontiers of the empire.

[@andersbjrnsen7203]

So roman expansion corresponds with dragon habitats? But why would Germany be more dragon-infested than France, or say Scotland than Kent?

[@Dave_Sisson]

@@andersbjrnsen7203 Countries with dragons usually have cooler climates than countries without dragons, plus food sources vary across different parts of Europe.

[@rexmundi7811]

I did not know there were dragons at the Little Bighorn.

[@ginojaco]

Of course dragons existed! Dragon is the name and interpretation that the ancients gave to the fossilised dinosaurs. The bones of things that, since they could be seen, could be real...

[@largesatsuma]

We had six friggin' episodes leading up to the Battle of the Little Bighorn and no battle? What gives?

[@jimb9063]

He who pays the piper...

[@707jette]

its available in podcast form

[@yensid4294]

One of the more interesting theories I've heard/read regarding the cross cultural existence of Dragons is that The Dragon embodies features of 3 actual living predatory animals that would have been feared by our proto human ancesters. A big sabre toothed cat, a large raptor like bird & a big snake/or crocodillian. All of these would have preyed on a small ape & even been dangerous to a modern human. So, it's a fantasy monster that is an amalgate of real life dangerous predarory animals. That combined with any found fossils & you've got a legend that sticks around.

[@davidmyles1138]

you don't credit the horse as on origin which is not uncommon, but a ridden horse to a society that has yet to come across horses would be hard to describe, they would not have the vocabulary. speeds- it flys, cold days they smoke. Chinese have a direct link to horses

[@sazajac77z]

Another possibility, offered by Velikovsky, is that it was a comet that appeared to the world as a dragon. Possibly passing close enough to another planet to cause electrical arcing between them. (That comet becoming Venus) In fact, the Velikovsky Affair would be a great topic for the show!

[@Nefferious]

Of the top of my head, both the Colchis dragon and Ladon guard some form of treasure (the golden fleece and the golden apples of the Hesperides respectively), so "treasure guarding" IS something that you encounter with dragons in Greek myths.

[@Nefferious]

Also, while Greek dragons are mostly desribed as giant land/sea-dwelling serpants, they can occasionally have wings. Typhon is descibed as a serpentlike and dragonlike monster with many heads that breathed fire, (in some interpretations he straight up is a dragon), and he very much had wings. At Euripides' "Medea", although they typically aren't depicted as having wings, the dragons that pull Medea's chariot are able to fly. There is also Demeter 's chariot that is pulled by winged dragons.

[@jackkelsey9326]

I was disappointed that they didn't mention the Lambton Worm.

[@jimb9063]

My Grandad had a wonderful myths and legends book with some wonderful artwork. Always remember the picture from that story!

[@Truffle_Pup]

Ahhh Wisht Lads, had ya gobs! I'll tell yiz all an aaful story. Wisht Lads, had ya gobs, I'll tell ya boot tha wooooooorm!

[@LRG246]

WHRRE HAVE YALL BEEN?!

[@Pilgrim98]

The Ara Pacis Augustae in Rome has a dragon with a serpentine body but with clearly visible wings, and that's centuries before christianity became legal in the roman empire

[@skdjirrrdjdm3926]

Excellent podcast, and such a fascinating subject approached with sincerity and a bit of humor. Ive always thought it was a valid theory that dragons existed alongside humans, although we'd refer to them as dinosaurs in modern times. The word dinosaur hasnt even been around for more than, what, 200 years? So they called them dragons. And it makes sense that nearly every ancient civilization had stories of them. Also fits in how virgins were frequently sacrificed to them, given what we know about how ancient cultures practiced humam sacrifice even their own children to their gods.

[@caspaccio]

I like this video format (filmed in the same studio) much more than the usual one.

[@Dave_Sisson]

If you look at the full table shots, you can see the microphone cords leading down to the floor where... they are not plugged into anything.

[@davidgrantphelps1944]

@@Dave_Sissonthat’s hilarious actually

[@DunrobinOntario]

Snakes don't have eyelids, this is true, but like birds/reptiles/amphibians and a small handful of mammals like Beavers, they have nictitating membranes - a semi-transparent filter that can use to cover their eyes to protect them. It moves horizontally out from near their nose (or where a nose would be on a human) It's almost spooky to watch... Dragons, in theory, would have these too😅

[@sam_tyler]

"More serpentine, only has two legs". The best line and can summarise this podcast perfectly. 😂😂😂

[@philipdavies5195]

An entire episode on Dragons and no discussion on The Welsh Dragon/Y Ddraig Goch or Druk of Bhutan. Probably the two most important Dragons to modern day nations both with vast mythologies and fascinating histories. Utterly bizarre.

[@Quick-n-eg쿠이크앤이지]

China has a long history of 5,000 years or more. I think there might have been dragons in the past but they became extinct just as dinosaurs were extinct. I sm Chinese documented it in their literatures.

[@skdjirrrdjdm3926]

I think dragons/dinosaurs were hunted yo extinction, given how much if a nuisance they tended to be.

[@dougallee7066]

Fascinating chat. Maybe I missed a reference, but they live in holes?, and exhale noxious fiery breath? they are often associated with mephitic swamps? How about the influence of volcanic landscapes, sulphur dioxide and hot springs?

[@HappyCodingZX]

to be fair, and despite not being a great film, the 2002 film Reign of Fire was really the first to show 'believable' dragons, not Game of Thrones.

[@jackstewart753]

Great episode, as always

[@baarbacoa]

I'm going to guess that if dragon mythology emerged several different geographical locations at roughly the same time, that in actuality the myth goes far back in human history. And that all these cultures already had these myths and verbal form. We just think the myth emerged at that time when in reality it was just when it was first written down.

[@lewisjwilliams1993]

Fascinating discussion The question of flight is also a key element in defining the dragon. There is a very strong Christian tradition of the 'purity' of flight, and that the only true 'fliers' are feathered beings (birds, angels). Much like Lucifer himself, a fallen angel, demons are represented as serpentine / batlike creatures with scaly wings. They either cannot fly, or can only 'hover' in the earthly realm. The dragon, that broods in an unclean hollow and has wings taps into this notion of impurity / corruption too

[@AnitaAnneLloyd]

Absolutely LOVE Dragons! Mighty, beautiful mythical creatures! Bow your head there is a dragon in our midst!

[@DogFoxHybrid]

Thing is, as the great Irish-American philosopher and humorist Nicholas Mullen pointed out, the Chinese dragon is just a whole other different thing that we called a dragon, equating it withthewestern concept.

[@VaucluseVanguard]

Can we take it that releasing the last Custer episode to KZbin has been dropped?

[@WargamingHistory]

The Hobbit and Farmer Giles of Ham were my first books with dragons in 1977

[@naomiseraphina9718]

Fascinating stuff altogether! I truly enjoyed your podcast, and I can't resist the urge to point out one more possible source for the dragon mythos that was not mentioned in your admirable exposition: The modern-day and historic sightings of huge reptilian animals in the waterways of the world. In North America many of the indigenous peoples have stories of great water-snakes with horned heads that are viewed as great bringers of danger and evil. Mythology alone? Off of the coast of British Columbia, there are routinely spotted, to this very day, animals of serpentine appearance that grow to lengths of over 100 feet, and which appear to have horn-like protrusions on their heads. Cadboro Bay is one of the bodies of water in which they are most frequently sighted. When we add to that information the fact that mariners have been reporting sightings of massive marine serpents for hundreds of years (see Captain Drevar, of the HMS Pauline, for a particularly compelling example of this phenomenon,) I think that a case could well be made that people tell tales about dragons because something very like a dragon is still sharing the planet with us. Certainly this would be a dragon of the aquatic variety rather than a classic fire-breathing, bat-winged Tolkein specimen, but still I do think that our world contains enough surprises yet for us to discover that a living dragon may well be among them. Cheers, and thank you for your wonderful podcast! I love everything of yours that I have yet had the privilege to hear. --Naomi

[@ginojaco]

Apologies gents, but this is the first time I've seen you full-length and... I was immediately struck by the resemblance to Little and Large... 🤣

[@DisarmingLeviathanUSA]

This episode is 🔥🔥🔥

[@ropeburnsrussell]

We want Custer!!!

[@kaloarepo288]

Surely one of the main inspiration for dragon myths must have been when people came across dinosaur bones? In Herodotus' description of the Scythians he mentions a tribe that mine for gold but their efforts are contested by gryphons. In recent decades fossils of dinosaurs have been discovered in these areas. Probably the inspiration for this story. And then there is the crocodile and the komodo giant lizard -surely inspiration as well!

[@wagherbert]

Venomous, snakes are not poisonous, they are venomous. You can eat them without getting an upset tummy.

[@DAVIDPETERS12C]

West of the Nile long prehistoric whale skeletons referred to Basilosaurus or Zeuglodon were no doubt known to early wanderers.

[@dorotakorsak3107]

We should not forget, that norse, bablionian and greek dragons are actually sprooting out of common indoeuropean root. Slavic myths have similar dragons. It's just like diveresed in history to mearge again as its is so deeply sited in our consiousnes.

[@andymcintosh3963]

I want to know when riding a dragon became a thing.

[@juvenalsdad4175]

Anne McCaffrey's 'Dragonriders of Pern' series of books in the late 1960's. I think.

[@piushalg5041]

In the medieval German "Nibelungenlied" the dragon is called Lindwurm.

[@MarcInTbilisi]

Mmm, maybe the two legged dragon is reference to it once being humanoid?

[@milztempelrowski9281]

Is.. is this an ad? I don't mind. Just.. surprising.

[@tommonk7651]

Finally, a new episode…. Busy with election prep? Um, Custer?

[@girthbloodstool339]

The treasure-hoarding dragon is recapitulated in C.S. Lewis' Voyage of The Dawn Treader as well.

[@HomeFromFarAway]

ancient dinosaur bones were definitely available to old civilisations, if not close by then certainly via merchants and travelers

[@devilsadvocate7389]

In Bosnia (I assume it’s the same for other Slavic speaking countries) the name for a dragon is “Zmaj”… which is awfully similar to the word for a snake “Zmija”

[@scottstevens9533]

Is it true that Crazy Horse rode a dragon at the Little Big Horn?

[@hnnsy]

These historians are reassuringly middle-aged.

[@frankknudsen842]

That may have been a Tolkien quote, but to me, that was an excellent Winston Churchill . Very evebif unintended was excellent. Thanks ever much

[@longandshort6639]

Dragons are just dinosaurs

[@GoBlueGirl78]

Snakes are only poisonous if you bite them. 🙃 They’re venomous if they bite you.

[@launiesoult3248]

Be you guys are great no commercials no nothing just talk I love it history😮😮🎉

[@gustavoolivieri6568]

I miss speech in Martin's dragons, but I guess A-bombs don't talk much...

[@adventurefella]

Your content is usually amazingly well researched but I wish you’d have watched Prof Hutton’s lecture posted three months before this one “the Fire Drake is the classical monster of the Christian World from the Anglo Saxon times forward” ref Job 41 for a dragon that inhabits sea and land (likely needs wings for that) and has sparks coming from its mouth and smoke boiling from its nostrils (very Smaug) - the verses from Job are first-person god so carried immense weight for the medieval conciousness. Definitely predates than Tolkein then! :) kzbin.info/www/bejne/eYaQhI2lZ8mAfs0si=9_3pzI2MqlB7G1Qy

[@johnofroncesvalles4255]

Dragon myths could have easily spread with Alexander the Great to Gandhara (Northeast India), and spread to China (along with Buddhism)

[@jimb9063]

Thanks gents. Heard an interesting theory on why dragons are hostile in European myth but friendly in East Asian. No apex predators left in Europe while tigers remained in Asia, fuelling the need for a mythical replacement frightening creature which stole cattle and fair maidens. The Silmarillion draws heavily on the differing appearance and abilities of dragons. Some with no fire, some no wings. Glaurung and Turin's encounters are very recognisable too. I think the last word should go to Orwell. Four legs good, two legs bad. Have all you damn Wyverns got that?

[@andersbjrnsen7203]

Brown bears and wolves? They were around on most of the continent at the times dragons were "invented"?

[@jimb9063]

@@andersbjrnsen7203Yes, especially so in Scandinavia. All enquiries to Prof Ronald Hutton.

[@jcr_jcr]

Fire breath could be the stench that comes from the Komodo dragons today. Lost in translation.

[@782hrr]

Hasn’t anyone invented gunpowder in Westeros to deal with the dragons?

[@johndavenport8843]

Herodotus spoke of seeng the skeletons of winged snakes.

[@bedofromkokstad9034]

You didn't mention any bestiaries... The Greek Physiologus or Aristotle's Historia Animalia, etc. Only later, there were medieval religious bestiaries....

[@Sumonebody]

do the Munity on the Bounty

[@skdjirrrdjdm3926]

Yes!

[@ulrikjensen6841]

Is it a pun, or what?

[@Sumonebody]

@@ulrikjensen6841 its history! its about this british navy ship in the 1700s where the crew muntied and took over. There's a big debate if the boats captain was at fault, or the leader of the munity caused it.

[@GillaneSeaborne]

What about the Harry Potter books (and then films) which surely brought dragons into the mainstream before GOT???

[@davepannekoek1562]

Bloody heck Tom and Dom (TomDom? DomTom? I am hearing a Tolkein rhyme building..) Did the bloody Draco eat Custer? Did Crazy Horse actual transform in to Dreki and consume the 7th Cavalry??? Are you going to push the final Custer installment to KZbin????

[@Gigipretty64]

TombombaDom?

[@VaucluseVanguard]

Can we have the last Custer episode please rather than this.

[@patrickbateson6341]

snakes tend to be venous not poisonous

[@ulrikjensen6841]

What about "poisous"? Or "poisomous"?

[@sam_tyler]

Venomous

[@davidmyles1138]

Try to describe a ridden war horse to someone who has never seen a horse, using very limited vocabulary. then ask them to describe it to someone else ~ Dragon?

[@Janika-xj2bv]

I have a dragon tattoo on my shoulder blade.

[@warpigeonofdoom]

In the same room? This might be reaching a critical mass of historian.

[@johnhaynes9910]

I guess I'm all dragoned out now !

[@Wacoal34d]

Lair of the White Worm

[@yp77738yp77739]

This was unfortunate, dumbing down is not a good direction.

[@d.c.8828]

Y'all sure dragon this Little Bighorn thing out, huh...? 🤠🐉

[@h____hchump8941]

This is a ridiculous topic - dragons don't even exist! And they haven't for centuries.

[@donaldcatton4028]

You’re upsetting my dragon…

[@billyo54]

What! No mention of Pete's Dragon? 😂

[@sn00pgreen]

unless of course humans were around at the time of dynosaurs...now there's a rabbit hole

[@Thomas-n1n4o]

They were. But we were like rats or shrews back then…

[@humblescribe8522]

Where are the last Custer episodes?

[@frasegfunk9790]

The 1405 Bures Dragon

[@alphasierramike2091]

What nothing on the Commodo dragon?

[@d.c.8828]

Komodo*

[@d.c.8828]

"Carl Soggen" 🤦‍♂️

[@carveraugustus3840]

Dragons and ep 7 Custer v Sitting Bull. Hazzah

[@ip6289]

Fire breathing dragon named Zmey Goninich appears in Russian folk stories dated back at leat 14 century.

[@PaulRamen]

Is that a spoiler near 4:00 ? (Had to quickly pause the video in cas it was haha)

[@wendyknight9574]

Are dragons not also known as lizards? Also giant lizards are known ans dragons - Komodo.

[@stephendaisley8645]

Was there a dragon at the Battle of Little Big Horn??

[@miamithijs3579]

Maybe a spoiler alert is in place? I stopped listening when i heard something that could be a spoiler since i havent finished house of the dragons yet.

[@JamesDeBall]

They don’t mention anything besides season 1

[@dearestsimone]

Where is the last episode on Custer? Was it not released?

[@Littleriverupthehill]

Is sky Murdoch owned?

[@micu1544]

Dragonologist... lmao

[@CR7Ashironaldo]

thank god finally something i can listen rather than whatever that custer thing is

[@tommonk7651]

A little Custered out? LOL

[@primodernious]

dragons are just dinosaurs that went extinct in the flood of noah as written about in the bible. dragons are serpent headed creatures that came in all size and shape. birds evolved from dragons. the transition to bird they lost their forlimbs as they alreay had wings from when they were dragons. you can still see the bone in many birds where the forlimbs would have been. the extra set of limbs was the last evolution of land creature. humans and mammals belong to the precursor to dragons. some dragons had only for legs but some had wings and four legs. i think they destroyed the dragon wings in the bone wars to remove evidence that many dinosaurs came from flying dragons. its about rewrite history to wipe out the human record of history and replace it with new age mythology that dinosaurs is based on.

[@jasonwhittle5494]

What a comment ‘Dragons obviously never existed.’ Yet Herodotus is your favourite historian…such a shame that small shrinking groups of Pterodactyl are not an option? Why prefer to call all ancient historians liars…

[@Thomas-n1n4o]

The fossil record overwhelmingly demonstrates that there was no dragon like creatures and no dinosaurs that existed for 63million years after the rest were extinct.

[@Thomas-n1n4o]

I mean, we would have found some record of this creature existing in the last 63million years. Given that we have found so much from that time.