The Truth Behind The Grenfell Inquiry Report

[@restispolitics]

The Rest Is Politics is powered by Fuse Energy, a green electricity supplier powering homes across the UK. Use referral code POLITICS after sign up for a chance to win tickets to the TRIP O2 Arena show in October. Learn more at getfuse.com/politics ⚡

[@JoshAkers-cd1zj]

Let's goooo FUSE 🔌

[@afctaylor12]

You should tell Rachel Reeves that . She earns over 100 a year and still claimed 4.500 in last 4 years. Unpopular is one thing but unfair is another.

[@ras6783]

Do they do discounts for pensioners ?

[@maguirefire3190]

So there not impartial! Thanks! I was wondering how the 2 wallies was funding this ridiculous toy town podcast

[@kate-yk8gv]

Oh the irony of the advert 😂

[@Joe90V]

"We've not invested properly in our Water industry …" There is no "we" Rory, they are private companies charged with delivering a service. But instead 'THEY' have chosen to ignore that, borrow a shed load and give to themselves (shareholders). Put the blame where it belongs.

[@davidmcconaghy5745]

I was thinking the same thing

[@mikesmith-vb6fz]

Spot on

[@adriandaw3451]

paying shareholders before investing in the company. The new standard economic model.

[@odi299]

@@Joe90V But isn't the real problem that they haven't received enough funding from the Tories to properly address the water issues?

[@PJH13]

He explains pretty clearly why it's a we. The water companies pay upfront for any upgrades and to justify that investment they need the regulator to approve subsequent bill increases. Ofwat hasn't done that because they prioritised keeping consumer costs low over making upgrades that would improve water quality and this is the result. The regulator misjudged public sentiment on this issue and the business followed what the regulator wanted them to do.

[@mattgaskell945]

“Tough choices” is usually code for tax increases and public service cuts. Why can’t the “tough choices” be how much to tax the corporations, how much to increase the taxes of the wealthy, how to bring closer alignment to Europe?

[@richardayres2949]

I clearly remember Cameron and Osborne saying that the austerity cuts to public services would not impact front line services. How they lied!

[@jitendrajoshi786]

Don't forget that George Osborne and David Cameron publicly endorsed Gordon Brown's expenditure plans until the financial crisis began in 2007/08. Labour should have been able to counter Osborne's false assertions about the need for austerity much more vigorously!

[@maximusdecimus111]

and it was only going to be 4 years...

[@benjamincrookes2276]

I love this podcast. There is real power in topics being discussed from 2 view points. Also great to highlight that we can disagree (fundamentally) on some issues but still operate with dignity and a sense of calm and be able to agree on common issues without breaking tribal lines. Great stuff gents please keep them coming.

[@tonyaustin4472]

So about water rates and sewage….when I moved up from Surrey to Cambridgeshire in 1976 my combined General Rates (the 1976 version of Council Tax) and Water rates were £50 a month; and in Cambridgeshire they were £50 a half year. £50 in 1976 equates to about £900 in 2024. Now, in 2024 the combined cost of Council Tax and Water Rates are nearly £2500 a year. Where’s the money gone? Bearing in mind that Local Councils were well funded in 1976 as were Water Authorities; it just shows how Councils have been stripped of funding by successive Governments and Water Authorities have been blatantly used by greedy asset strippers to rob all of us for their rich clients….and the amoral bastards are expecting us to fork out up to 59% increases next year. Thatcherism really did do more damage to the country that the Luftwaffe ever managed and it’s failed in every single respect. Macmillan was so right when he referred to the Utilities as the ‘family silver’ don’t you think :-)

[@austinbooth4491]

Local authorities also lost most of their ability to invest to raise money and were forced to sell off their housing stock at massively discounted rates without being able to access and reinvest the money raised.

[@susanbaker7282]

👏👏👏👏👏

[@ChristopherFynn001]

"Thatcherism really did do more damage to the country that the Luftwaffe ever managed" ~ so true.

[@JoeyTired]

This is the same politics we've had for fifteen years now. It's beyond tedious.

[@Notmehimorthem]

Rory: The problem with the Tory Government is everywhere the eye can see. Let's list a few - all the utilities, bank behaviour, mortgages, housing buying for working people, NHS, GPs, education courts, probation, prisons, social care, elderly care, higher education, Barrister and solicitor pay, mental health care, councils, transport, dentists, highways, rail, child poverty, The working man cannot afford a home, children, has no job security, low wages and no hope. Young people cannot get on the mortgage ladder, even if they are middle earners and there is virtually no social housing.

[@mrD66M]

Under these conditions it isn't hard to see that a proportion of the population would be inclined to take to rioting. The telling part? what/who were the targets, and the instigators. I've made the point elsewhere - I do not, and never will, endorse or excuse violence - that if the rioters went at the companies that profited obscenely from selling houses that had the same cladding as Grenfell, or at the water companies for example, then it would be understandable.

[@martinconvy4243]

The left needs to riot Riot riot...against the right people!!

[@stleonards1066]

and if there is social housing, it is likely to go to people who were born outside of the UK anyway

[@mrD66M]

@@stleonards1066 source?

[@madmags969]

Yeah but apart from... All the utilities, bank behaviour, mortgages, housing buying for working people, NHS, GPs, education courts, probation, prisons, social care, elderly care, higher education, Barrister and solicitor pay, mental health care, councils, transport, dentists, highways, rail, child poverty, The working man cannot afford a home, children, has no job security, low wages and no hope. Young people cannot get on the mortgage ladder, even if they are middle earners and there is virtually no social housing..... What did the Tories f*** up?

[@brianlivesey981]

Grenfell - Building control in this country has crown immunity, why? They inspect foundations, damp proof courses, ventilation, roof structures, but not cladding on buildings over 18 metres high? All the authority but no responsibility! The Final Completion Certificate from the L.A. is not worth the paper it is written on . In the past there were independent Clerk of Works (generally employed by the L.A. or architects) on major contracts that used to ensure that the contractor installed materials in compliance with the specification and regulations. The building regulations used to specify the spread of flame for insulation and boarding but now compliance is more complex and obscure. I would judge on a refurbishment the size of Grenfell that would be a full time job. Architect's have an on going duty of care not only to inspect but to ensure their design is being built in accordance with those standards. All the foregoing has a cost. But it has now cost lives. Brian Livesey MSc. (Building Conservation) retired MRICS MCIOB Chartered Surveyor. Chartered Builder.

[@richardayres2949]

But Rory, the water industry was privatised in 1989, 35 years ago, what have private sector companies been doing with all the money both investment and biller payers? You say it doesn’t matter if they are private or public, but surely if the shareholder dividends had been reinvested rather than leave the companies coffers surely our water infrastructure would have improved.

[@PJH13]

Not really, capital has a cost whether it's actually measured (as the private sector does) or hidden as in the public sector. By forgoing privatisation government would've had to fund all the investment itself with incremental debt and taxes: the cash that went to dividends would instead go to interest payments and the only saving you'd make would be the difference between the two. At current rates, that's near zero. Additionally in government hands the treasury would always be making a choice between spending that money on hospitals or sewers - which do you think would've won?

[@curmudgeon1933]

@@PJH13 . The difference is, that if the government borrowed the money to invest...and invested into improving the infrastructure, then it's true they would have had to pay the interest, but the system would be functional. As it is, the private water companies took investments from shareholders, DIDN'T invest in improvements, gave the profits to execs and shareholders, and still said they didn't have enough to make improvements. Therefore they demanded subsidies from the government...and still raised prices for customers. It doesn't take an Einstein to deduce where the money went to...and to certainly wasn't into building a functional, sustainable, water supply network.

[@PJH13]

​@@curmudgeon1933 No doubt, not enough has been invested, but to quote Charlie Munger 'show me the incentive and I'll show you the outcome'. I'd contend the issue here isn't one of private or public ownership - look at prisons and you'll see govt. making exactly the same mistakes; they don't want to invest in a utility where the public won't give them any credit for it until it's broken. I'd therefore disagree with your assertion that govt. would've invested any more (indeed investment doubled under private ownership). The only way to avoid this is a strong independent regulator which has a clear emphasis on environmental protection and the power to both increase bills (carrot) if performance targets are hit and fine heavily (stick) if they are not. The problem is, the regulator's top priority was keeping bills low (as Rory notes) so they frequently blocked companies from investing, to avoid raising bills. This is what the govt. needs to fix. Finally, you've asserted that the companies receive subsidies which is just incorrect.

[@Dinosaurs_R_cool]

Very nerdy thought, but I'd love it if Rory or/and Alistair did a book shelf tour - it's a good way to be introduced to some interesting books

[@yellkell-]

Yeah, because we basked for years in economic bliss after enduring Theresa May's economic policies... Oh wait, no we didn't.

[@ianworley8169]

Nor the austerity policies of Cameron and his hatchet-man, Osborne. Austerity for we plebs, while the rich get exponentially richer, gorging at the public trough.

[@ugh.idontwanna]

Well, I for one am reaping the dividends of the Big Society. That tuition fee really got the country back on track 😒

[@jonathan2847]

@@ianworley8169 Public debt, is debt to rich people paid by the tax payer. Austerity is just not increasing that debt. The problem is not austerity it's taxing plumbers more than investors. The problem is that capital gains tax is lower than income tax, capital gains shouldn't exist and income from investment should be treated as income from work.

[@valeriemcdermott9423]

They are so disgusting. Rob from thè poor to give to the rich. Just laughable.

[@KevinMckeon-b1v]

Rory ignores the bonuses and profits made by privatised water companies. The privatised National Grid is in a mess too with less publicity. Experts say it's the worst in Europe. You need to speak to economists like Richard Murphy and Danny Blanchflower who have an alternative to the Labour austerity narrative. Reeves fiscal rules are nonsensical.

[@belindathorne9784]

@CoffehKittehGrey But they told us she worked at the BoE!😆

[@d.e.7210]

​@CoffehKittehGrey- Reeves' BA was in Philosophy, Politics, & ECONOMICS (Oxford, 2,I). Her MSc. was in ECONOMICS (London School of Economics). After graduation she worked for the Bank of England and then a commercial bank (HSBC). Hard to imagine training more skewed towards Economics than hers already has been.

[@susanbaker7282]

Exactly

[@waterdragon2340]

@@d.e.7210 PPE at Oxford is a triple subject all studied ab initio from sub GCSE level to a level significantly below a single honours. It is studied by clever people who then come out thinking they know FAR more than they actually do. If you want to know about real economics, don't study PPE. The best economists I know started out as geographers, historians and engineers at the first degree level. Working in banking teaches you about banking and also gives you a horribly skewed vision of economics; Reeves is probably taking too much advice from the banking world.

[@darrylhewes2376]

The reason privatisation has failed is because our governments have failed to regulate and set proper framework for the private companies to operate in. And not given the Regulator the teeth to do the job given to it. Privatisation is a failure of governance.

[@jezlawrence720]

Yeah, because governance and proper regulation is *expensive*. When a govt. says the private sector can deliver the same for less more often than not it is effectively them saying "We don't want to pay for us to have to apply governance anymore" cos if that was bundled in then it wouldn't in fact be cheaper and that's always the stated motivation for privatising.

[@jasvirkaur2941]

OR TAX the RICH!!!!!!!!!

[@felixenigma4335]

The ugly truth is that they already do. Unfortunately the real solution would be “ tax the old” or “ take away the benefits for most of them”. That would never happen because it would be political suicide ( understandably so) but the fact of the matter is that without income tax reform for the higher middles classes the tax base is to small to run decent public services.

[@redrev674]

@@felixenigma4335the middle classes are already on their knees with the cost of living. Why does nobody want to cut or reform public services?

[@RosemaryCairns]

I often feel much more informed - wiser, even - after listening to your podcasts. You are great examples of how to discuss and debate politely and intelligently :)

[@vguijh]

But it's not a case of 'if you want something you need to pay for it' when the government is wasting millions to CEOs, dodgy PPE deals and gimmicky Rwanda schemes (I know that was the last government, but that is why we have so little money now). Even if that was the case, we can start by cutting MPs £90,000+ wages on top of their subsidised meals, taxing the rich, increasing inheritance taxes, etc. There are lots of ways to get more money that don't significantly disadvantage some people

[@bigmeltie1]

And how much are they paying one of the big 4 accounting firms for training the civil service?

[@maximusdecimus111]

When Reform, or an extremely Reformy Tory party win the next general election, political commentators will be aghast, surprised and worried. The foundations are being laid for that now. Austerity was supposed to be for 4 years, from 2008. 16 years of austerity later, we're heading for another 5 years being ruled by its nation wrecking hand. The country is in tatters, and most of the major issues are directly related to austerity; Brexit, immigration concerns, lack of growth, extreme inequality, record food bank usage, child poverty, knife crime and mental health crises to name just few. Neo liberalism has failed us, and will give rise to fascism.

[@AB-kq9xm]

Jenrick/Reform aren't anywhere near facist. They are still liberal - democracy, free speech, equality under law, welfare state. The bnp were genuine facists who wanted an ethnostate that they could've only upheld by destroying our democratic institutions.

[@mezzer34]

"Neo liberalism has failed us" its not worked for the past 16 years, but lets give it another go, Im sure it will be differnet this time

[@geoffreyking1541]

I'm a Brit who, in the second half of the seventies, worked in Zambia. My responsibility was to plan the training and development of local folk in Zambia's mining industry. This industry created 1/3 of the country's GDP and 95% of its exports. I went there about ten years after independence and some progress had been made. There was a lot to do and some mistakes that had been made, needed rectification. I believe that my work both achieved progress while I was there, but also set the mines on a path for continued improvement in "Zambianisation". I recruited a Zambian who took over my job after four years. Last year my older son, who was born there, and I went to this country of his birth, for him for the first time since 1979. We met both my successor and his son, who, unsurprisingly, was my son's first friend. The stories they told us out made me weep. China has bought or bribed its way into the country and its mining industry. My vision of the industry's future has evaporated. The smooth running infrastructure has declined and the Zambians are not benefitting from the wealth that I believe is rightfully theirs as it is taken by China. So sad.

[@carolineclark4760]

I was involved in running a big community building for 25 years. When we were converting it, the Fire Brigade came round to inpect our plans and told us what we had to do to comply with fire regulations. We were obliged to follow those instructions. When we were bringing in changes in the mid 2010s, it was up to us to decide what we needed to do to meet the fire regulations. We could hire private consultants if we wanted to, but the overarching policy was that if anyone was harmed, it would be our responsibility to demonstrate we had complied, or face the consequences of not doing so. However, if people are dead by that point, the harm is done. We might have gone to prison, but that doesn't help the dead people!

[@jameswhyte5094]

Only a true spin doctor could say that tyranny is for our own good and will pay off it the long run. What are we working towards as a nation exactly? Our economy is stagnant, government services a crumbling embarrassment, we have mass immigration from the third world which no-one wants, crime and shop lifting spree, ever growing debt and deficits, 2 tier policing and increasing tribalism along ethnic, religious, gender lines. The country is much worse than last year, 10 years and 50 years ago on all metrics.

[@alanbaldwin4253]

Grenfell - the idea of a central training facility is a brilliant idea. How do I know? The Fire Service College - before it was lost - was widely regarded as outstanding!

[@pb_pb_pb_pb]

Legalise cannabis and tax it

[@ianbarnes961]

Other drugs, too? At least the users would know exactly what they were getting.

[@adampascoe1084]

1) No I am not convinced with the Government’s line of “it’s much worse than we feared”. Everyone from the OBR to ONS to independent think tanks were saying that there needed to be tax rises after the election. As Rory says there is no substantiation to the claim. 2) According to the ONS the median income in the UK is £35k. I don’t believe any median earners who are struggling to pay increasing bills, mortgages, food costs etc will care less about the state of public services if it means paying more tax. Eg “why should I pay more tax so train drivers get more money to provide a service I can’t afford anyway”. All this will do is increase the gap between the rich and the rest.

[@mdp303]

It’s not a lack of seriousness nor is it a lack of responsibility. It’s a total lack of accountability or consequence.

[@ChristopherFynn001]

Labour need to tell us about the huge costs of the Brexit disaster.

[@AogNubJoshh]

The issue with Tory austerity is it was completely unnecessary. Interest rates were low, debt was cheap, and unemployment was high. It was the perfect time for infrastructure investment, which would have boosted growth. We’ve missed that window now and we’re paying the economic price for the lack of investment. We now have less to do more.

[@davidpinfold852]

The trouble is politicians who are honest are rarely rewarded at the ballot box. The public only votes for what it wants to hear. I didn't hear any pensioners complaining when Cameron & Osborne imposed austerity on working families and they were forced to go to food banks while they kept their triple lock pensions. Different story when they are asked to share some of the pain.

[@maryj5593]

As usual an insightful discussion. Thank you gentlemen

[@desmoran2049]

Corruption endemic in the UK

[@contemporaryschoolofpiano]

Ain't it the truth

[@johnnyw525]

As messed up as we are, we have some of the lowest levels of corruption on the planet. In other countries, even some in Europe, politicians are imprisoned for stealing public money... but still do their jobs from prison. We actually have a very low tolerance for corruption here.

[@hectorpascal]

Hmmmm... try living in some OTHER countries! THEN you'll understand what "corruption" means.

[@hpsauce1078]

To be honest this is just rhetoric, in the grand scheme of things the UK isn't that corrupt. The problem is that the underlying system that underpins the operation of services and political decisions in the uk are inefficient and under strain, the problem is much more difficult than just politicians are corrupt.

[@mcz6239]

I had a business in UK from 2009 and 2018. I was amazed how low the taxes were. I also lived in Belgium and Spain. The level of taxation is higher in those countries. Collecting money through VAT is the most unfair taxe system.

[@veeday1146]

Just watched the 1971 film Get Carter. It ends at a place called Blackhall Colliery Beach where the sea was black with dumped coal. Likewise as a kid 70 years ago I remember asking what those large pipes were on the sandy beach. That’s the sewage pipe don’t go too close, we were told as we splashed around a few yards away. Perhaps our sewage was healthier then, having no drugs or farming chemicals swishing around, but it never made me ill. The industry was privatised because an against government government didn’t want to raise taxes to invest in its growth. Unfortunately neither did the worshipped private sector who naturally thought of it as just another cash cow. Decades on that neglect has meant that even more money is required to fix it, so much that the companies claim after all that they can’t raise the money. We’ve voted ourselves into a lose lose situation and such is the state we’ve been left in there’s the possibility of descending to the level of such as India where people still swim in waters as polluted as our sea of coal.

[@ColinSmith2001]

For Grenfell - You remember the episode a while back, when somebody asked who in government did the thinking on long term issues, and you realised that nobody really did that, but concluded it didn't really seem to matter too much?

[@cameronmiles645]

TRIP is completely wrong on the Albanese government tax thing. There were tax cuts already legislated to begin, mostly going to wealthy people. Labor promised to keep the same tax cuts at the election. However after the election they changed to spend the same loss of revenue, but expand the tax cuts to also include low income people and be bigger for middle income people. Literally no taxes were raised and everyone got a tax cut, just less went to the wealthy.

[@jcrigg]

Safety in UK rail massively improved since early 2000’s, this shouldn’t be overlooked. Also remember the repeated cluster of tragedies in the late 80’s - Kings Cross Fire, Piper Alpha, Herald of Free Enterprise, Lockerbie, Clapham, Hillsborough. Things really did improve, so the shock is we thought we had got past such tragedies in the UK.

[@howmanybeansmakefive]

I say this as someone that deeply cherishes the NHS as public (and publicly owned) healthcare, with many friends and family in it. I sincerely believe that if to get through the current crisis (while sticking to Lab's stubborn tax/'fiscal rules') it's a choice of backend quasi-privatization or top-up/nominal fees, the fees are better. Wheeling-out 'free at point of use' as a way to sneak in backend privatization is a farce if it means: fragmenting the market, losing public control, government paying contractors/profiteers, selling off data-rights etc. There is so much potential for reform, and we have a unique capacity for our health industry/exports as a national system. We should reverse the sell-off of NHS data rights to Palantir (like thatcher selling off the north oil + stunting homegrown AI development), and the failed quasi-subcontracting of GPs, and really take stock of where the NHS's strengths and potentials lie to broaden the horizon of thinking. At it's core, the real strength of the NHS comes from its collective bargaining and public ownership, followed by research/public health/organizational/etc... integration (often squandered). This gives us much more health policy latitude than perhaps any other country. I'm worried that what's justifiable as emergency short-term private provision is giving way to an ideological argument for quasi-privatisation under the guise of 'free at the point of use', shirking the truly needed reform. While difficult, a government could reverse/sunset emergency fees and would at least retain public accountability/ownership, but reversing fragmentation and the sale of rights/assets is much more difficult once private contract/property law is in play. Whenever I hear the news/podcasts discuss the NHS, it is always rehashing the same talking points and arguments, even if they think they are being 'unorthodox'. There's hardly any actual investigative journalism trying to understand the issues and options, beyond reform/funding=yes/no, or private v public with no elaboration. Even Victor Adebowale (Chair of the NHS confederation) on Pod Save the UK didn't seem to have a clear grasp of the economics. We all know about the problems, but as a country/elite we have such little understanding or any meaningful discussion of the actual economics and structure of the NHS, (and part of that is gaining perspective on what it is that actually works well).

[@bryanhanley673]

It is all very well talking about 'public services' but Thatcher and the Tories gave public services away to private companies whose raison d'etre is to make money rather than serve the public.

[@sithersproductions]

The problem with Starmer at the moment is that he is not tackling the magnitude of issues facing the British public and instead focuses on non-issues like smoking and Lords reform. He's earned his reputation as a boring bureaucratic busy-body.

[@specialized500]

Wow after a couple of months he hasn't sorted out all the countries woes !

[@heycidskyja4668]

@@specialized500 After a couple months he should have thought about making a start.

[@specialized500]

@@heycidskyja4668 not even had a budget yet

[@ethanpratt330]

We haven't even had the budget yet. People are acting as though in two months he should have cured cancer like your gonna have to give the guy a chance to actually do something

[@AogNubJoshh]

@@heycidskyja4668this is a bizarre and factually incorrect take. They’ve accomplished a reasonable amount in the small amount of time and given the summer recess.

[@robm5887]

Would have been nice if the Tories left a message telling Labour there was no money left, but not only that but they planned for stuff they couldn't ever afford.

[@IsSalty]

They can make unpopular choices, but we cannot let them get away with callous and cruel POLITICAL choices. In principle I support the WFA being means tested, but NOT in the way they are doing this. Hundreds of thousands will be worse off who need this due to a whole list of reasons why they won’t end up claiming the pension credit. Labour lied about this, they claim they are doing it for economic reasons, yet if the 800k people who are eligible for PC do claim it, the government will lose money, not save it. In reality Labour are pretending they want people to claim pension credit but they’ve already done the assessment and come to the conclusion most will just suffer in silence thus saving the government money. MAKE NO MISTAKE, This is a political choice. Big energy companies have made record profits, last year British Gas 10x their profits on the back of all of you, the government could easily have implemented a windfall tax to fund this, but they didn’t. They chose to hit hundreds of thousands of pensioners who will be just over the threshold and will be net -£500 worse off this winter. It’s a political choice to make pensioners freeze to death. They don’t have to, they are lying about needing to. Be unpopular, don’t be cruel.

[@tommonk7651]

Privatization of public services is not a viable model long term....

[@janetsanders5356]

Watching in U.S.A., at first hearing I was shocked to think you were advertising an energy drink. Relieved to find not so.

[@gavingerard2053]

LAB comms need to drastically improve.

[@Cosmoscosmos1]

Alistair Campbell has always been unpopular and it’s never helped him👍

[@DC-YTC]

Are you sure about that? He's earning more money now than he's previously earned in his career. Being polarising is the key to success

[@sup5356]

Convincing Dr David Kelly to commit suicide was Al at his worst. The guy is a fractional human

[@Mark.James.]

@@DC-YTC I may not particularly like Campbell but I’m pretty sure he’s not motivated by money, per se. It’s not a measure of success in this case. He was paid in power, in New Labour

[@tokenspirit6140]

@@DC-YTC You only have to look at the companies who want to sponsor them are, hm, hm? Big Corp' aka filthy rich people grabbing everything, even the government and affecting policy. Get out into the streets, like the well-informed.

[@Cosmoscosmos1]

I meant he’s just not a likable person. Yes he has money. People like him always will focus on ££s I just feel he carry’s a lot of self hate and chippiness just below the surface. Could be wrong of course. Just something about the bloke.

[@matchfactoryman]

Tax the rich ! What a revolutionary idea. Surely when you want to raise money you go straight for the poorest in a country, like pensioners.

[@R08Tam]

I'm not impressed with this new Tory government

[@sup5356]

Well said!

[@hectorpascal]

You'd probably become a LOT worse off with the OLD Tory government!

[@ohboyz222]

@@hectorpascal Hardly a glowing endorsement of the new lot!

[@davidevans3227]

lol

[@hectorpascal]

@@ohboyz222 We're still waiting to find out!

[@RobMorrison-vf2is]

With Granville how is it that a lot of people in court over this. Things happen over and over again, and no one seems to have to face the consequences, which is disgraceful.

[@jamesfork2163]

Starmer faced a choice between awarding train drivers a massive pay rise and penalizing pensioners. What about imposing higher taxes on the wealthy, bankers, and companies that avoid taxes? Has he abandoned his Labour values? Additionally, MP allowances and House of Lords attendance allowances should be cut.

[@specialized500]

So how much do you think train drivers should be paid ?

[@TheVesko95]

I am sorry but a rich pensioner who lives in Spain, has millions in their pension or has hogged an enourmous house doesn't need fuel payments. That's ridiculous. As a young person I am sick and tired of paying more and more taxes, having more and more burder and genuenly struggling whole the ungrateful pensioners have the tripple lock and on top receive fuel payments regardless of wealth. If we are suffering then that suffering needs to be proportionate.

[@odi299]

@@TheVesko95 One million pensioners scraping by on just £11,000 a year are being cut off from their winter fuel allowance. That’s dangerous.

[@charles1117]

@@specialized500 Definitely not more than doctors, firefighters and teachers

[@specialized500]

@@charles1117 That's not helpful as doctors ,teachers and firefighters have very different pay scales

[@MegaWelshpanda]

the outro music coming in too early whilst rory is talking about china, it really adds some drama to his words :) excellent podcast as usual chaps.

[@Muzakman37]

Enjoyed the fade-out music creeping in too soon under Rory deep in China analysis and then reaching it's very loud conclusion...and Rory's still talking lol. That tickled me.

[@jupitermoongauge4055]

Is there anything Rory hasn't been the minister for ?

[@fintamaria2429]

So the laws exist but absolutely no one respects them and they cannot be held accountable... WOW

[@harryhill-es5jk]

Tong Blair spin doctor is spinning it hard it called propaganda

[@HaydenCyclist]

Exactly! Spinning manure into gold is the aim.

[@adamfrank4192]

I don't get it. How do more Conservative neo Liberal austerity policies fix the damage done by years of Neo Liberal austerity policies? Hasn't anyone on the Labour Party heard of economic policies that work such as those of Thomas Piketty e.g.? Why are the Greens the only nes in Britain who seem to know about economics?

[@ffotograffydd]

Because the Greens can promise the world knowing they’ll never be in government. Reality hits hard when they are actually in charge at council level, they totally f*cked up the budget when they were in charge in Brighton. Meanwhile, Labour are dealing with a £22 billion black hole because the Tories lied to the OBR who because of that lie then mis-briefed the incoming Labour government on how much money was available.

[@susanbaker7282]

👏👏👏👏👏

[@waterdragon2340]

They've heard of them but unfortunately the sane and practical aspects got muddled up with some barmy stuff based on a complete misunderstanding of MMT, AND associated with Corbyn so noone seems to dare to go anywhere near reality for political reasons. Not aided by David "Danny" Blanchflower getting himself interviewed by Owen Jones which may/will appeal to the labour left but by the same token, not to anyone closer to power.

[@Jack-yg7de]

Blair's lapdog had been on Stewart's case about backing austerity constantly since this podcast started. Now Starmer is employing the same it's "needed". Hopeless. This podcast has gone to the dogs.

[@ejc636]

I have a private water supply for my use. A water company had the balls to try to extract water from my supply as they where a short in a local area. Told them to FO. They tried to go to court and they failed there as well. The water company made billions in profits.

[@mrphgil974]

6:02 ‘we’ didn’t fail to invest in water, the private companies did, instead focusing on loading debt (assuming a future bailout) and stealing the money.

[@jamesfork2163]

He’s not fixing anything; he's creating new problems. Punishing pensioners, punishing working people, now on the verge of stopping people from smoking in public-I don't smoke, but I know people who do. This is going to affect people wanting to go out, then it's going to affect everything else in a domino effect. He hasn’t got a clue what he’s doing.

[@HektorBandimar]

Are they just completely out of touch? Why are they considering all these crazy ideas, the only good thing they have done was to punish the rioters, hurting the pensioners in the lower income group, and the outdoor smoking ban is insane, the hospitality industry is suffering enough already, madness!

[@stephenkeogh3287]

Patience. You don’t put right 14 years of degradation in a few weeks.

[@martinwoollett8468]

@@stephenkeogh3287 not by being stupid and pissing people off.

[@ffotograffydd]

He’s not punishing pensioners, those who actually need the winter fuel allowance will get more, those who don’t won’t get it. And the smoking thing is a Tory policy.

[@nlewin5072]

Ten million pensioners who have enjoyed final salary pensions and triple-locks can afford to take the hit and should do. The smoking thing is a long-term approach to health and reducing pressure (and cost) to the NHS. I can't stand either Starmer or Reeves but this is good government.

[@DavidBrown-ts2us]

13:33 'the situation is so much worse than we thought' This excuse should not be acceptable, the government finances should be transparent to the opposition so that they can't later say they didn't know.

[@adriant335]

I never hear any government talk about gaining efficiencies and stopping costly re-work (one vital pillar we could use to improve our public services) but instead its always "we need more investment in people and infrastructure ie £££. Overall we are structured and organised to fail (no large successful business would have an organisation structure in the way we do from government down to public sector workers - it's no longer fit for purpose anywhere as we constantly demonstrate how to turn tax money into shite through immeasurable levels of unneeded costly bollocks. If we want to be really serious about having a "change fund" then levy every UK worker a one off £1000 over two years from source. Approx 33m UK workers raises approx £33b over that period as use it to restructure rather than "buy more of the same".

[@johnvaleanbaily246]

Just a general failure of government to implement the necessary infrastructures and legal controls to provide for the country.

[@henrivanbemmel]

Yes, and you pay for all of that with taxes no one wants to pay ...

[@oliverbenson5575]

There are so many issues on new builds and conversions now. Could you look at wether this relates to making building control private? It seems bizarre that the private building control companies have to compete for contracts, and future contracts from builders and developers, to sign off their sites, and then they are not held responsible for issues that are found, rather only wether they followed there own procedures. There seems to be an incentive for private building conteol to do less checking and sign of building work, in order to guarantee future contracts.

[@jamest5149]

Its unfortunate that VW are the only ones mentioned with the ‘diesel gate’ scandal, it has since come to light nearly all manufacturers were doing the same or similar.

[@somekindofhmm]

Thank you for talking about Southeast Asia, which often flies under the radar in Western media, especially talking about the region as a whole rather than focusing on just one country. It is my hope that ASEAN can become more successful as an economic and geopolitical bloc like the EU (though in my opinion ASEAN should be quite different organizationally).

[@joannehorn637]

The 2012 health and social act was cataclysmic on so many fronts.

[@robertmoyse4414]

If you are short of time and want to get to the guts of the incompetence of British bureaucracy look at 26:15 to 29:46.

[@macsmiffy2197]

It’s cold enough for a blanket tonight whilst watching the TV. 😟

[@sbwords]

Even Campbell, the Prince of Spin, is struggling to portray Starmer’s first weeks as a good start. With convicted criminals walking free, and vulnerable pensioners facing a lack of heating, Labour is looking like the nasty party.

[@andrewharrison7767]

the tories were planning to release the very same criminals from the over crowded prisons, that's the over crowded prisons which happened because said tories didn't build prisons

[@waterdragon2340]

Ah but tough decisions.... you know it hurt them to do this which makes it all OK

[@felixenigma4335]

Foreign perspective but i am honestly a bit baffled by your whole “ prison leniency “ policy. The government decided for come down extra hard on those “ protesting” ( fair enough but it leave them very little wiggle round with other future protests with violent elements) but i letting perpetrators of heinous domestic abuse get out early. How are people not incredibly angry about this and how is a party going to survive this policy when a big portion of these people are going to reoffend ,leading to the most heinous stories. I get overcrowding, i live in the Eu,we practically all have over-crowed prison. But no political party in my country, including those on the far left, would ever agree with a policy of setting free domestic abusers so deliberately. What am i missing,is it because most of the victims of these crimes are from lower social economic classes, because frankly i think those deserve the most vigorous protection.

[@BIGGIEsmalls13]

What the hell has happened to this podcast? So much avoidance of facts and nonsense. The News Agents for me is the most balanced. Campbell is a pathetic slimey individual as always, and it appears that Stewart has his head on backwards. It's an unfollow from me......

[@ohyesitsme]

They are politicians, what do you expect?

[@jacktraveller8290]

From experience the entire process of designing buildings is an industry wide game of avoiding as much design responsibility as possible. Architects themselves do much less technical design of buildings than coordinating the advice of teams of specialists. Architects often dont understand how building regs work in detail, they rely on consultants and engineers in individual disciplines to provide this.

[@matthewstreeter5169]

Regarding inquiry recommendations, what would be wrong with a parliamentary select committee whose remit would be to hold a register of all recommendations from inquiries and coroners inquests. They can then call 1 minister a month along with their PPS and senior civil servants to update on what is being enacted, what is not, and why not.

[@odi299]

Alastair, I have no words for how appalling I find it that you were the key architect in forcing Britain into the Iraq war. You are directly responsible for it, and you must feel the weight of responsibility for the deaths of a million people.

[@neilcrook7838]

Alister makes a good point on segregating investment spend and service spend is valid, should investment spend be classed as an expense. The problem the way I see it as an accountant is that in the real world the rules on this need to be strictly enforced. At Enron they weren't and we saw what happened there. Can we trust politicians to keep a strict split of spend and its associated debt regarding 'investment'?

[@John_N_Quay_Harbour]

Why not make it your goal to call government to account for the Grenfell report?

[@buzzukfiftythree]

If we want investment for growth then the money has to come from somewhere. Some of us may feel disgruntled about the restriction on entitlement to WFA to recipients of Pension Credit (I do), but unpopular policies are necessary if we’re to recover from the past 14 years of Tory incompetency and the strain that Covid put on the UK economy. What is puzzling me is how on Earth they’re going to invest while reducing the level of government debt. How do they also get us all onboard? Well, the first thing that needs to be publicised is the plan; if we can see the way forward, we’re much more likely to engage and bear the pain that will be necessary in the short term in order to enjoy the fruits later on. Openness is needed.

[@odi299]

Almost 4,000 pensioners could die if Labour scraps winter fuel payments, according to the party’s own research. A damning report published in 2017, when Keir Starmer was in the shadow cabinet, claimed that restricting the allowance to pensioners on benefits would cost thousands of lives.

[@FireflyOnTheMoon]

1 in 4 pensioners are millionaires in the UK. It doesn't make any sense to give them winter payments.

[@boogaloo4640]

It's not 2017 anymore. Pensioners have been given more money since then

[@neilthornton3544]

1 in 4? Really? 8 million are affected by this so you're saying 2 million pensioners are millionaires. Ridiculous​@@FireflyOnTheMoon

[@garethmckee5927]

@@FireflyOnTheMoonevidence, please?

[@ffotograffydd]

It’s now 2024, not 2017. They’re cutting winter fuel payments for those who don’t need them and giving more to those who do. Not all pensioners are living in poverty and don’t actually need the universal benefits.

[@Mike-mw7ot]

I feel it’s time to give up on this life ,there’s nothing ahead but to try and get through another winter with no money to heat or feed myself it’s so so hard what the Tories put us through ,now it’s even harder with what this labour government is doing to us pensioners,you never hear them mentioning how much they get as a heating allowance or how much they claim expenses it’s so so sad that these so called members of parliament are out for themselves,God how much I have grown to hate living in this country

[@peterwebster1379]

I have some empathy with these sentiments, I thought in my extensive journeys through so much of the poorest parts of the world, that corruption, incompetence, greed and a lack of care, only existed there. I was wrong. So now I buy a much cheaper property in France, more sun, lower costs, then for 6 months of winter enjoy a tropical sun and good food, pretty much on a state pension. Our governments lack the vision and desire to really make the changes needed, so I decided to change.

[@Sloane77]

As a member of the other community he decided to attack on day one, I feel the same. What he did was take hope away from millions of people who thought things could be better. I can’t see a future ahead of me. He emboldens the people who abuse me in the street. He’s taken my healthcare away and he’s sending trans people to churches who hate queer people and torture us with conversion therapy. And the media is completely silent.

[@sup5356]

Don’t give up. Stop watching the news and switch of social media. It’s not all doom and gloom: i’m sure Al wouldn’t want another suicide on his conscience too

[@philipmulville8218]

These two blokes are super smart. I consider it a privilege to have access to these discussions and ideas. Brilliant stuff.

[@jackseen1743]

You're a good man Keir. Ethics and honesty are part of your being. Honesty isn't always that popular, as can clearly be observed by the populists and the blaggers. The public are used to bs and blather for the last 14 years. The Tories didn't issue a true word in their whole lives. Carry on doing the right thing. It will pay off.

[@Gunt-D]

Lololol.

[@Sloane77]

Say that to the children he took healthcare from to appease bigots. And do you know what he replaced that healthcare with? A suicide hotline. He knows his actions will lead to death of children and he doesn’t care. A good man does not bully the most vulnerable to please right wing gender critical cultists. What him and wes streeting have done to my community is far worse than anything the tories did. He took our futures from us.

[@squeakyproductions]

Increase VAT!? That didn't exactly work when Osbourne did it, but if it's broken why fix it keep on flogging the dead horse like a good Tory.

[@RobertThomson-y4m]

How do you know when Campbell's lying? His lips move.

[@splosh1011]

the music during rory's final point killed me

[@davidroberts8657]

Mario Draghi, the former European Central Bank head has just recommended an €800 billion programme of investment, financed by borrowing, for the EU, he see no other option in current economic conditions - the same is true of the economic situation in the UK. Clearly, those whose main focus is financial stability see no other alternative to borrowing, and see it as a stable financial proposition. This government has to look at how to invest to make a difference to the country, in things that have a multiplier effect.

[@Notmehimorthem]

The idea that the fact that prisons are in crisis is due to oversentencing is only part of the picture. Privatised officers, minimal staffing on units and a general lack of care for the job from temporary staff with little training have handed the prisons to the convicts this is true in all the serious prisons.

[@martinwoollett8468]

plus poverty drives criminality. jailing people for hate speech and anti social behaviour is stupid and unproductive. send them for education on how to behave like a human beings and maybe some hard labour just for fun.

[@Notmehimorthem]

@@martinwoollett8468 what is hate speech? Easy to say and hard to define. For example Islamophobia is hate speech in many people’s books, even racist, but Islam is something we should fear. Only this week Islam has forbidden women to speak in public in Afghanistan. Plenty of other reasons to oppose Islam, inc over 45,000 terrorist attacks since 911 and a refusal to integrate ordered in the Hadith. On the other hand most Muslims are born into the religion, not exposed to science factual truth, reasoning skills and so forth only blithering idiots spouting the Quran. If they try to leave they are threatened with hell or even death for apostasy and if they dare criticise the Quran the punishment can be death. We NEED to fear it, or loose our freedom to its gibberish

[@Notmehimorthem]

@@martinwoollett8468 but what is hate speech. Take Islamophobia. There is plenty to fear in Islam, history tells us. Only this week the Taliban have forbidden women to speak in public. 45000 terrorist attacks by Islam since 911. Islam suppresses our freedoms and our secular laws, it has no interest in modern human rights and insists it is the final truth. Muslims are born into this prison and are threatened with hell if they try to lesve. Apostasy is punishable by death and so is blasphemy so you dare not criticise the fake word of Allah, you might get murdered or at the very least get ostracised by friend and family. We need to challenge it.

[@AB-kq9xm]

Open borders, 10k foreign nationals in UK prisons, and putting up taxes on median earners. Sounds very fair, thanks Rory.

[@Chris.Hutch55]

They know what is wrong but have no idea how to improve the situation without Taxing people to a point they only look forward expecting harder and harder times.

[@chrismartin5870]

Exactly. No ideas other than taxing anyone and everyone with anything.

[@Sancarn]

It is absolutely ridiculous that water companies report their own ODIs (KPIs). Why would you ever have such a huge conflict of interest? Maybe for some ODIs it makes sense, but seriously... That grenfell tower report really reminds me of this. Companies lying and lies built off lies. How do we get around these lies? Surely a great way would be not allowing for conflicts of interest wherever possible... And where there are conflicts of interest, these need deep, random audits, not just surface level audits.

[@koreainsincere]

Campbell's "impartiality" recedes with every passing week it seems.

[@VinceLammas]

I dont think either of the podcast leads has claimed to be "impartial", only to disagree agreeably. I have never expected Rory to cease being a natural Conservative nor Alastair to cease being a centre-left Labour supporter.

[@Jackdaw5]

Why does he need to be impartial? Are you?

[@koreainsincere]

@@Jackdaw5 Only because he's said many times that he would be, that's all. Or don't you watch the podcast?

[@TimRoope-nm1ey]

Given how supposedly impartial Tim Davie has been in the Conservative Owned Media is a Long Way beyond a farce.

[@howarddavis2281]

'Change'. Yeah right.

[@slip7643]

Raising VAT! Because 20% isn't already a ridiculous sum! There is enough money flowing through this country, it's just misspent. Everywhere you look it comes down to mismanagement not underfunding. Some heads need to (figuratively) roll and there needs to be a serious grip on how money is spent. Nothing needs to suffer as a result.

[@AmySoyka]

6:48 So, what if, as part of a regulatory mechanism, instead of outright brining utilities back into public ownership, there was instead a form of penalty, whereby, utility companies are brought into public administration, as a penalty for misbehaviour/misconduct? A bit similar to how councils go into public administration down under and they sack all the councillors and bring in a board of administrators and run things like a corporation with a CEO... It would be like that, only, the penalty is against a utility company and not a local government area council. So, sack all the C'Salary characters and board of directors for the utility company, and replace them all with those in the civil service to fill those roles. That way, you get the benefit of keeping the private companies structure, whilst also having the benefit of a regulatory mechanisms allowing civil servants to force policy change within those companies that forces them to meet regulations and increase standards standards,

[@johnnyw525]

52:40 Any particular reason the theme tune suddenly started playing? X-D

[@palmgrove77]

The castigation of the architectural profession may be partly valid, but does not recognize the impact upon responsibility generated by the privatization process, in which the architects duties, responsibilities and authority became subject to the contractors rather than to the users. My memories of building control in the 70’s are such that it seemed then to be more safe, with fire departments directly involved in the safety of designs. Furthermore, there seems to have been little experience learned from countries where vertical living is the norm.

[@tokenspirit6140]

Oh no! Fuse Energy. There are so many foreign entities in this country who, just like every other billionaire CEO have their hands on everything in the financial "industry" or any other type of business they can get their hands on. Oh my!

[@CloudhoundCoUk]

How many times do ordinary people have to pay?

[@MrPaddy924]

Hi Guys. Can I ask that you interview Nate Hagens? His The Great Simplification podcast and thesis is causing something of a splash in academic circles and his ideas deserve an airing. He has some very prominent admirers in the philisophy, political and economic spheres.

[@patrickkelly1195]

Absolutely. I second that! Nate Hagens is having the conversations that we should all be having. He was recently interviewed by Rachel Donald from Planet Critical whom, I know, Alistair has already been interviewed by.

[@andym6256]

Off topic this comment, but I once saw a photo of Alastair with Glenys Kinnock under a tree in Eritrea talking with (now) President Isiais. Would love to hear more about that meeting….

[@DanielMasmanian]

Right. Has the government made a website where they make each shortfall, investment and consequent tax hike visually clear?

[@bthjf12003]

So far it's the ghost of Cameron and Osborne with a wig ...