Retired Early? Here’s How to Pay Yourself

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

What's your process for paying yourself in retirement? Let us know in the comments

[@adam872]

That opening comment from Eric about how his and Laura's relationship has changed (for the better) since she pulled the trigger on retirement was fantastic. I think for all of us considering the same path that's a great piece of validation of the "why".

[@papasquat355]

The unloading of that employment related stress that most of us don't even recognize is on us, is a HUGE relief. For the first time in our lives we begin to understand the meaning of "peace of mind".

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

100%

[@sewnsew6770]

Have been seriously considering retiring for that reason But want to be sure money is there to support the family long term Looking out 30 years is impossible

[@ra9r]

Hands down one of my favorite videos. Extremely useful and informative. I come back it it every couple of months. Thank you!

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Thanks! Very glad to hear it

[@retiretosomething9868]

I thought I would closely track my spending, but I have only been casually tracking my cash accounts. I had an idea how much I needed each year and after 3 years I have been spending a little less than that. I update my net worth statement annually, which lets me know if I'm staying on track. It's been a big change from how nerdy I was being before retirement.

[@nolandives289]

Just found my new favorite FIRE channel. I started 4 years ago at 21y/o while mostly unemployeed. I've finally worked my way up to a position where I can achieve FI in 6-7 years but am now in the boring middle haha. The stress of my job makes it that much more difficult. Thanks for making it less boring and being a good source of motivation to power through. Just a thought, have you guys considered bringing on people who've achieved FI/RE or are close to it as a sort of short monthly special? I can never get enough of the personal stories of people from different walks of life making this dream come true. Especially on the experience itself, adversity, lessons learned etc. Anyways, thanks for the good content.

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Thanks, Nolan! We're so glad you found us. We appreciate the suggestion! Stay tuned...

[@jaydacon4729]

Hi Jason. Have you looked back to compare where your portfolio would be using a 4% swr as is instead of a cape-based strategy? I know its still a small sample size, but curious to know how they stack up against each other.

[@observingman1053]

We harvest dividends in taxable accounts. Then pull enough money from an IRA account for our needs/plans but minimize taxes based on stacking of capital gains and ordinary income.

[@johnsherwood6395]

Great topic. Keep up the good work.

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

🙏

Your series on using the SWR Toolbox is fantastic - thank you so much. A question for a future episode: I'd love to see a walkthrough of you revisit and make updates to the toolbox as you re-estimate your variable withdrawal rate, update portfolio, revise cash flows, etc. Do you start this from a clean zero basis sheet each time? Are you updating your existing model? The mechanics are interesting, especially with the cash flows as you have to slide things forward, adjust horizon, etc.

[@PH-dm8ew]

love your show and love Erns toolbox. I was looking for a cape based program for years before i saw some of his stuff online and your episodes really helped me understand how to use it.

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Thank you for your support 🙏

[@maxpayne7419]

Time freedom is a beautiful thing.

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

100%

[@anthonynapolitano7407]

Really valuable content, guys thank you! I am recently retired and will be setting up my "paycheck" come end of this year, so I find the details really valuable. Can you comment a little more about the part of the episode (11:30) where you talk about the dividends in your brokerage account and how you add them to your spending? It sounded like you move your dividends into the cash bucket and use that to help cover your expenses? So do you assume that as part of your SWR or is this on top of that? Say you use 4% SWR as your "budget" - do you let the dividends flow in as "extra" or thats just part of your budget? Also when you say "all dividends" bc you paid taxes, do you mean even from Bonds and also from any Index funds too? vs. reinvesting them into the bond/etf? Thanks!

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Jason here - distributions that occur in *taxable* accounts are moved to my cash bucket. it doesn't matter what they come from. distributions in tax-deferred or tax-free accounts are reinvested in whatever funds make sense in those accounts as 'micro-rebalancing'. the only auto-reinvesting i have is in my HSA account as that's in a single total US stock market fund so no need to rebalance w/in that account.

[@anthonynapolitano7407]

@@TwoSidesOfFI Thanks Jason, make sense! Last question - sorry to nerd out! Do you count those dividends as part of your SWR? Meaning lets say you are withdrawing 4%, do you take out 3.7% (made up) knowing the other 0.3% will come from dividends? Or do you take the 4% and this is "on top"? Sorry for the details, but as I mentioned, I am in the process of setting this up for myself so it's super helpful to hear how you've decided to go about it.

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

@@anthonynapolitano7407 I don't do that level of accounting. In practice, they simply reduce the amount of sales I need to make at twice-annual rebalancing events to meet my cash target.

[@Zizaco]

In flames 0:52 🤘 Nice! Super happy for her

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

\m/ jesterhead \m/

[@boombustinvest]

Is that CAPE withdrawal strategy jut for US investors? (CAPE is just for US equities?)

[@BrianAnother]

Did not expect the blancolirio reference. I also watch all of his videos :)

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

he's great, right? too bad we cut out the part where we exchanged our respective imitations of Juan Browne

[@alastairford7145]

+1 for blancolirio - discovered his channel and yours during lockdown, and remain a firm fan of both.

[@HughSteeply-cc6tq]

Jason are you using the cash flow assist tab in your process? Thanks for the Safe Withdrawal Toolbox series. Good stuff!!

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Details here: twosidesoffi.com/toolbox/

[@jtierney2150]

Love your podcast--love the banter! I started watching a few months ago b/c of your clear explanation of how to use the Big ERN's SWR tool. At your suggestion, I was playing around with the Case Study tab from the tool and saw that a Glidepath shows better returns for every starting year I randomly plugged in. Do you use a Glidepath approach for your portfolio? I'd love to see a future Podcast on Two Sides of FI on how to implement the equity Glidepath in retirement. Thanks!

[@hydrogolfer]

Eric and Jason, great video. Curious, are you using an a (intercept) of 1.75% in the CAPE SWR?

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Thanks! I use 1.50 as it's a little more conservative. :)

[@AnhNguyen-bi6vg]

Always something new to think about when listening to your podcast. Great fun as usual. Thank you. Would love to know had Jason used the standard SWR (4% rule) what would the % have been last 2 years. I am hoping to use 3.5% but thinking it might ne too close to the edge.

[@susanharkema2888]

Congratulations on rediscovering each other, Eric and Laura. I've noticed (2 months pre launch) that we have a new energy and perspective that IS like dating again.

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Thank you! The countdown is on for you...congrats!

[@rx911S]

Great show guys. Been wondering what you would consider to be a really big purchase in retirement (something fun like an expensive sports car or jewelry) and how you would feel about it after the fact (buyers r we Morse, etc). Keep up the solid. work.

[@andreawill9017]

I love listening to you both especially with your wives!

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

🙏

[@WoutervanTiel]

You guys are definitely nerding out in a good way! So right now your portfolio is up back to its early levels and then IF the market drops 35% then what? I am a market timer despite what everybody says and for me that works, so I keep my portfolio fairly stable in terms of growth. Do you have a number you can drop down to in terms of your budget? Is that tax spreadsheet with all the tabs available to buy in a link somewhere?

[@TheRetirementality]

Great show fellas. All of our rental income just flows into our checking account and then we put anything left over in a High Yield SA and then when it builds up we just buy ETFs. I guess it's the opposite for us than for those who have money in different types of accounts.

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Thanks Jeff...makes perfect sense for your AA heavily weighted towards RE.

[@meganavalos4605]

Sooo...when do we get to meet Eric's accountant and her spreadsheet?

[@knh0250]

Very helpful! Thank you

[@WillyTandLou]

Do you have a video or more info on the cape?

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

yes! check out kzbin.info/www/bejne/oYHGaaGdaNiMeJI and if you'd like even more background on the tool and how we use it, you can find all SWR content and links to related information at twosidesoffi.com/toolbox/

[@cyrillebaillif]

Thank you guys!

[@dagreatstoney.5869]

Lads I don't understand half of what Yee are discussing, but it's always interesting

[@kentverge]

My wife and I both got a good chuckle with Jay's comment about Lori not wanting the details of the CAPE ratio spreadsheet. My wife says the same: "I don't want the nuts and bolts; are we doing ok?"

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

😂

[@KG-oe8oo]

Where are you keeping things such as sinking funds for large items like a new roof or new a/c unit? I'm having trouble segregating emergency funds, long terms sinking funds and accounts for large dollar deductibles like homeowner's insurance.

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Larger, long term sums are kept in money market funds in my brokerage acct, while shorter term expenses are kept in checking. I keep the latter organized in my budget (I use YNAB) as separate line items.

[@KG-oe8oo]

@@TwoSidesOfFI thanks! I think because my pot of money is so small, keeping them in cash or money market funds puts me over a 5% allocation to cash LOL!

[@likethesky]

That was going to be my follow up question for Jason @twosidesoffi which is: are all of your sinking funds a portion of your 5%? Meaning maybe 2-3% of cash is earmarked (but not usually spent) and the other 2-3% is just for monthly checks? I’m sure you’ve seen Karsten’s thoughts on buckets just being an illusion, so the only real need is to avoid rebalancing more often.

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

@@likethesky none of my sinking funds are a part of my 5% cash allocation. I also don't follow a bucket strategy.

[@likethesky]

@@TwoSidesOfFI hmmm, I don’t understand. Isn’t a bucket strategy any allocation to cash? (Other than monthly or quarterly cash raising from “whichever side (bonds or equities)” is needed to return you closer to your desired asset allocation, or equal from each if AA hasn’t shifted due to market?)

[@hydrogolfer]

Curious, do we know the probability of failure of the values from the CAPE tab (say if you use an intercept of 1.5%)?

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

If you stay within the parameters of the tool, the failure rate is zero.

[@beelee1394]

I'm interested in your tax spreadsheet. I'm still accumulating but I try and estimate quarterly with some assumptions during decumulation.

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Here's the spreadsheet I mentioned in the video: bit.ly/taxspreadsheet

[@zekeboz5533]

Great topic and fellow Karsten SWR sheet user. Question on the Target Withdrawal (%pa) result on the CAPE-based rule sheet. If you leverage the Cash Flow Assist tab fully (income/expenses populated) do you view that earlier result (%pa) as wiggle room in being able to spend more, x%? My results fortunately have a small 1-2% positive value there after I full leverage the Cash Flow Assist tab. thanks and enjoy the channel!

[@janitoronfire]

I’m just thankful that I will have a federal pension, and I don’t have to worry about downsizing my portfolio. I plan on living off of my pension and my wife’s pension, and never drawing a penny from our investments. Fingers crossed.

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Sounds great. Do you have a plan for the investments? Legacy, giving, or otherwise?

[@janitoronfire]

@@TwoSidesOfFI my wife and I contribute to the C fund in the thrift savings plan. It's basically an S&P 500 index. We also have a small Roth each thru Vanguard. We have two rental properties and we will both a federal pension and social security. I am eligible to retire as soon as June 29th at the age of 56.5 She has 8 years to go before she is eligible at age 57. We plan to travel as much as possible to low cost countries.

[@kentverge]

Keep in mind that the 2% average inflation rate, and other assumptions, are for the life of your plan. Just because inflation is high today doesn't mean it will be continually high for the next 30 years.

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Very true

[@Jonzard]

What do think of the critique of CAPE that Shiller's views on what CAPE value is a predictor of poor returns have been criticized as overly pessimistic and based on the original definition of CAPE, which fails to take into account changes in accounting standards in 1990s, which, according to Jeremy Siegel, produce understated earnings. (Right off of Wikipedia)

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Karsten writes about this here (we like his thinking): earlyretirementnow.com/2022/10/05/building-a-better-cape-ratio/

[@Jonzard]

What "bonds" do you own, bond funds or specific bonds associated with your timeline?

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

We're index investors, so own bond funds. We prefer the ease of this approach vs. laddering.

[@Darknight00744]

Are you guys take into account that you can no longer spend so much, especially in the last years of your life? I'd rather spend the money at 60 than at 92. I've read the book with zero and find the whole thing extremely exciting and sensible. My grandparents are well into their 80s and spend almost nothing anymore...they did alreday the big world tour etc..

[@MicahsJourney...]

Re: the "morbid" process of decreasing your months-remaining-to-live on ERN's spreadsheet, what's the plan if you end up living, say, 100 months longer than anticipated?

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

this is why I've always picked 95 or 100. I don't have to worry about it. -J

[@thurianknight]

In Flames! Yeah!! 😀

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Respect! \m/

[@thurianknight]

Also, I am just over 5 weeks from retirement. Watching you guys talk about your FIRE journeys for the last couple of years has been an inspiration for me.

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Congrats, the countdown is on for you!

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

@@thurianknight Thanks so much for your support. You're in the home stretch! Best wishes to you

[@KG-oe8oo]

I heard that comment from Eric at the end about leaving the show! I mean, understandably you may be too busy enjoying life! I keep hoping you guys will pick me for a case study in "how to do it all wrong but NOT be broke" LOL! Have all of your retirement in tax deferred accounts (traditional instead of Roth) without enough time to switch to Roth? CHECK! Have all of your assets that would have preferential tax treatment (stocks eligible to be taxed at capital gains rates) in your 401k so they are eventually taxed as ordinary income upon withdrawal while having all of your regular interest assets outside a tax advantaged account so they are ALSO taxed as ordinary income CHECK! Think you can time the market before finding the FIRE community and get out of the market at the exact wrong time while also getting back in at the exact wrong time? CHECK Pay off your 2.5% 15 year mortgage in 7 years rather than pay the minimum and invest the excess? CHECK! Overcomplicate your finances by spending an enormous amount of time tracking expenses and moving money to get every last bit of interest? CHECK! Can't figure out whether you will have plenty of money in retirement due to social security and a pension while also wondering if you will go broke and end up eating cat food and living in a cardboard box? CHECK! Seriously, it's not as bad as all of that but if you're ever looking for a case study, I'm still your gal! LOL! I did take your advice from a prior episode and changed the value of my real estate on my net worth statement from a loose current market value to purchase price. It was a gut punch to take that much value off (my house has easily doubled in value) but it was fun to see my net worth eventually come back excluding the increased real estate value.

[@Billybobthor]

If it’s any consolation I’ve checked a few of those off the list too. I think you have to make some mistakes along the way. The goal is to make small ones, like paying off your 3% mortgage early ✅, putting your money market cash into your taxable account ✅. And just be diligent with living modestly and saving and investing over the years. That’s actually the part that most people can’t actually put into practice.